Go for a walk, man: Sony's drive to create a car parked by partner Honda

Sony and Honda have broken up, meaning their joint vision to deliver a revolutionary electric vehicle won’t happen. The two Japanese giants decided to build a car together in 2022 and formed a company called “Sony Honda Mobility” (SHM) to make it happen. A year later the pair showed off their plans in a prototype called “ …

[Inventor of the Marmite Laser]

"The Japanese company also pointed to emerging Chinese EV-makers that it said are delivering better cars than Honda can make and gets them off the drawing board and onto the road faster."

Blimey.

[Inventor of the Marmite Laser]

I wonder if that will become a Ratner Moment

[Calum Morrison]

Not a Ratner moment - it's not well written, but I took it to mean that it was Sony who said it, not Honda. Maybe not the best way to talk about your erstwhile business partner, but nonetheless true. Look how quickly Chinese cars have taken over the UK - brands like Jaecoo have now got the market share that the likes of Citroen used to have, from a standing start.

[Irongut]

> brands like Jaecoo have now got the market share that the likes of Citroen used to have

Who? Never heard of them or seen one of their cars in the UK and there are EV charging points on my street.

[Calum Morrison]

You haven't been looking closely enough. Next time you see what looks like a slightly wonky Range Rover Evoque, look a bit closer and you'll probably see it's a Jaecoo. Admittedly they're not in every area of the country, but wherever there's a dealer - and they seem to be sold by big chains - they're selling loads. 3% market share in less than a year is not to be sneezed at: https://www.perrys.co.uk/blog/jaecoo-and-omoda-achieve-almost-3-uk-market-share-in-under-a-year

[munnoch]

Easy to spot. Look in the rear view mirror and if your first reaction is "fuck me that's the ugliest car I ever saw", it'll be a Jaecoo.

[goblinski]

"...if your first reaction is "fuck me that's the ugliest car I ever saw", it'll be a Jaecoo..."

Ssangyong Rodius has entered the chat

[Calum Morrison]

The 1990s Ford Scorpio is making sad eyes at the conversation. And at everything tbh.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Have you never seen a Nissan Juke?

[nathanielcwm]

It was Honda who stated it, not Sony.

[Calum Morrison]

I've just reread it - several times as it's not clear at all, with context and attribution switching across the various paragraphs - and I'm still not certain. It definitely wasn't Sony who said it (contrary to what I stated earlier), but I still don't think it's Honda themselves. I'd assume it's come from someone within the SHM group (i.e. Sony / Honda and more likely an element of the former) as it's such an unlikely thing for Honda to say - Ratner-esque indeed.

I can see Honda conceding their higher costs to the Chinese, but not their quality. It would not only be suicidal, but not even accurate. Whilst Chinese quality has improved massively in a short space of time, the reviews of their cars don't suggest it's up to Honda standards yet.

[Jamie Jones]

They seem to be conceding on the software rather than the hardware front:

From: https://global.honda/en/newsroom/news/2026/c260312eng.html:

"Moreover, in China, what customers value more in automobiles is shifting from hardware features, such as fuel efficiency and cabin space, to software-based features that will continuously advance according to customer preferences. This has intensified the competition due to the rapid emergence of newer EV manufacturers that leverage their short product development cycles and strengths in the area of software-defined vehicle (SDV) technologies, including advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS). In such a difficult competitive environment, Honda was unable to deliver products that offer value for money better than that of newer EV manufacturers, resulting in a decline in competitiveness.

[UnknownUnknown]

A Kodak Moment more likely.

[munnoch]

I don't think anyone could accuse Honda of making bad cars. Their stuff is generally a bit better engineered than their traditional competitors. But people don't buy things because they are good, they buy because they are cheap and Honda has always been a little bit more pricey. The CCP have made taking over the global car market a stated aim and have the means to undercut everyone else to wipe out the competition. In the UK we are literally holding the door open for them.

[frankvw]

...a revolutionary electric vehicle...

Revolutionary? Eh... No. Not really

Perhaps the real problem here is that nobody is all that interested in a car that promised to be little more than an electric arcade on wheels with an eye-watering price tag..

Sony would supply "imaging and sensing technology, telecommunications, networks, and the in-car entertainment experience" to be added to what is, to all intents and purposes, just a normal reliable and somewhat boring Honda EV. Especially in the current economic climate there's just no room for expensive gadgetry.

People want a reliable, affordable EV, and sticking a Garmin onto the dashboard or a media player in the back to keep the kids happy during a drive isn't all that complicated, and less likely to break down.

Rather than, say, electronic door handles that won't work half the time and lock you out of your car, or in it. (Tesla, anyone?)

I'm not surprised this got canned.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: ...a revolutionary electric vehicle...

Agreed. The problem is here

“ Afeela proposed a software-defined car that allowed drivers to customize the many interior displays with their preferred themes or apps created by third-party developers. SHM tossed around terms like Afeela becoming the "center of the mobility experience."”

They are at an existential place - similar to the Japanese cars almost wiping out the US Auto industry in the 1980’s. Trumps hard pushback against EV’s and Wind/Solar is running gen wrong way. Go ask Kodak and Polaroid.

Tesla have squandered the last 10 years on nonsense like Autopilot, self-driving taxi’s, Cybertruck and human like robots… whereas the Chinese just dug in over 10 years into the basics of scaling up battery, solar, wind and EV production at the affordable/mass market level.

It’s existential threats to Ford, Stellantis, VW, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Renault, GM and a late to the party Toyota..

Kia/Hyundai sit pretty with feet in both camp's… at scale.

[Terry 6]

Re: ...a revolutionary electric vehicle...

And arguably Honda customers ( yes we have an HR-V) traditionally chose them for reliability and functionality. Not the least that if something doesn't match up to functionality users want they sort it out in the next version very thoroughly so they rarely have a model that doesn't do what their typical customers want.

There are plenty of car brands, all tending to look model for model the same and usually similarly specc'd. So it's reputation that makes Honda buyers choose their machines.

And I have little doubt that a Sony infotainment system on wheels isn't their preference.

But, yes I've been in a BYD and if my North London terraced house* had off street parking I'd be very tempted to go to BYD. Seems like a great car, well designed for a decent price.

*Not enough room in front to put a car.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not holding the door open !!!

More like have taken the door off the hinges and left the Goods lift open so they can get even more cars into the market. !!!

All these Chinese cars will be going through some consolidation as the final winners are arrived at.

Flood the market with choice then when your competitors have gone ... consolidate to the 4-5 cars that the majority of the world buys.(Left & Right hand versions as needed)

The Japanese brands have slipped slightly in innovation and have been contaminated by greed which means quality is not as good. (Some short cuts are being made)

When the Japanese brands were running at best with a quality focus that could not be matched, they were unstopable.

The chinese brands are getting better and soon will be like the japanese brands of old BUT I suspect that they will also be infected by greed and let quality slip quite quickly.

:)

[Charlie Clark]

I look at all the "premium" cars out there and wonder if people really are buying them because they're cheap?

Chinese companies have for years been working to improve time-to-market. This is driven as much by domestic competition as anything else. This is why BYD is now rightly saying that its own battery and motor technology are world-leading.

[RockBurner]

Very interesting comment, given that Honda were once the "agitator" in that scenario in the car and motorcycle world, in the 1960s/70s. They've suffered the same fate (obsolescence) as they pushed onto UK and European vehicle manufacturers.

Some could call that karma, but tbh, it's just the way the world works.

[You aint sin me, roit]

Quite. But it does imply that Honda have simply given up.

Maybe they are so mass market oriented that they just don't have any niche appeal - which let's face it is the only reason the UK still has an automotive industry.

[Charlie Clark]

I think the Japanese market is different. Isn't Honda one of the companies pursuing rotary engines? Electrification of everything simply isn't possible in Japan, so other options have to be tried. And trying to compete with China on EVs at this stage is flogging a dead horse, when you see what "involution" in China is doing to margins. But Japan is still a leader in many related technologies and China, try as it might, cannot master them all at once.

Credit has to be given to Toyota for being an early adopter of alternatives to standard internal combustion engines.

[Anonymous Coward]

25 years of Hybrid Synergy - hurrah!!

About only 5 years since their first BEV.. the BZ4X struggled out….Boo.

Toyota’s Production System (HPS) should eat up BeV manufacturing… the Chinese have done this.

Nissan were the same as the Nissan Leaf as first mass-market BeV was launched in 2010 … and then languished.

[Not Yb]

Wankel rotary engines are interesting, but

not so great in actual use. Far too many moving (and oddly shaped) sealing surfaces for reliability. Current ones tend to require oil squirting into the chamber to lubricate seals (and burn off a little with each rotation).

Maybe newer versions won't have these issues, but it seems unlikely. As with many "new and wonderful combustion engine technologies" that people have come up with over the years, they still don't compete well with a good four-stroke.

[druck]

Re: Wankel rotary engines are interesting, but

While lacking the thermal efficiency 4 stroke piston engine*, rotaries excel at high power delivery in extremely compact form. So great for front-mid engine sports cars with a very low c-of-g (owned two for 22 years), and also in aviation powering light aircraft and drones.

* If a tiny fraction of the development of piston engines in the last 50 years had gone in to rotaries, the gap would have been narrowed considerably.

[SnailFerrous]

Go for a walk man

Well done to the author of the headline. Another in The Register tradition.

[Zack Mollusc]

lucky Honda

Probably a good thing for Honda, they were probably spending a fortune to comply with Sony's insistence on DRM in everything so you could not start the engine without wearing Sony clothing, only Sony subscribers could be passengers, no rival manufacturers products could be transported in the boot etc

[that one in the corner]

Software-defined car

Wow! So I can make it do a Batmobile and convert into motorbike mode when traffic gets heavy?

> customize the many interior displays with their preferred themes or apps created by third-party developers

Oh. You mean - run the infotainment on an open OS, say, Android, and let us choose the podcast app? Ok, I guess, ho hum.

Actually, I *would* like some customisation over the display of our car's dashboard. Nothing too dramatic, don't want to be able to delete the "check engine" icon. But it would be really good to change all the "dials" into, well, dials, with a needle and some fixed gradations. And change the revs into a dial, so it doesn't catch the attention as it flickers from 1.9 to 2.0 (oh, some units would be good as well) but *did* catch the eye if it shot from 2.0 to 5.0! And free up 50% of the dashboard area by simply removing the picture of a car from the dead centre: what, you think we'd forget we were driving a car and start grabbing for the steam relief valve? It isn't even used as an information display! Yes, the headlights in the picture come on - and so do the little green and blue indicators! Doors not secure? The picture is replaced by a (smaller) diagram! Ok, ok, but could we use that space for anything more useful? YES! Like an odometer with legible digits!

Hmm.

The phrase is clearly wildly grandiose, utterly awful salesspeech but...

Could I have a "software defined car", please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Software-defined car

Our 2021 Volvo has Android capability and when a phone is connected it covers nearly half the screen with unchanging bars telling you that audio, navigation etc. are being controlled by Android Auto, leaving a tiny wee space for the actual map itself. It's no wonder that their recent cars have handed over everything to Google - say what you want about them, but they can do a better UX.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: Software-defined car

# that one in the corner

Did you not test drive it before you bought it? The problems you describe are common enough now (eg OS & smartphone "features" & bloatware) that you'd surely be looking out for them? 29 year old Volvo here for several reasons, including all the ones that you describe.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Software-defined car

It's my wife's company car so was her choice rather than mine, is a tax-efficient hybrid T6 Recharge that goes like sh1t off a shovel and in pretty much all other ways is excellent. Nothing is perfect and one has to make small compromises from time to time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Software-defined car

Ha, one of the things I'd like is to be able to turn off the "try Toyota Connect" subscription screen that the info-tainment screen defaults to when turned on with no Android Auto connection.

[Anonymous Coward]

Honda may not make it to EV

Some companies are too big to change. Even when they can see the change coming….

[Brave Coward]

A feel a...

... huge pain in the ass ?

[tiggity]

Personally

I would prefer a car with as few electronic gadgets as possible - I have a SatNav so do not need one in the dash, don't need to do phone calls via the car (don't want the distraction of phone calls when driving), don't want unsafe supposed safety features such as detecting (incorrectly) the speed limit and slowing car down, aggressive not in lane junk that at worst tries to push you into a dangerous part of the road, at best fucks around with car control enough that you no longer miss all the potholes & so yet more tyre damage.

I'm quite happy with modern choke, EMS etc. but definitely do not need most of the junk that is almost impossible to avoid on cars now (save money on electronic junk & have useful stuff as standard e.g. easy way to remember & alter seat position / height for different drivers - quite a common thing on more expensive cars but more use to myself & partner on a budget car than an unused inbuilt dashboard entertainment / control system)

[martinusher]

Not an inspiring product

The car was targeted at the California market and the press releases about it were not enticing. Yet another $100,000 car (figure $120,000 on the road after taxes etc.), one to compete with numerous premium brands from established manufacturers. This one's claim to fame included the oblong steering wheel (as tried in the Model S Plaid Tesla), a full width infortainment screen and something that looks like a copy of that notorious iDrive control to work the menus.

What we all need isn't a rolling audio/visual entertainment unit but affordable transportation. At the moment the average new car price is $52,000 in the US with very little under $30K (and absolutely nothing under $20K). To compound the problem modern vehicles are becoming increasingly expensive to repair with a minor fenderbender costs running into the thousands which is now starting to be reflected in significant increases to auto insurance premiums. EVs are particularly expensive to repair -- a fenderbender in a Tesla can cost many thousands to fix and even a seemingly minor accident can become an insurance write off.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: Not an inspiring product

You think Telsa is bad, wait till those Ford F150 drivers have a tail light go out. 5000 dollars for a new one because it's nonreplaceable LEDs and has several sensors integrated into the housings. And, with LED lifespans being what they are, about the time they burn out will be shortly after the 7 year mark. OEMs are only required to make replacement parts for 7 years, if I remember correctly. I'm keeping my 1157 bulbed older cars.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: Not an inspiring product

I think that it's 10 years rather than 7, but I may be wrong, or it's EU only, etc, but your point is otherwise entirely correct.