NASA sets 'impossible' ground rules for relocation of 'flown space vehicle' NASA has issued a draft Request for Proposals to move a flown space vehicle, a step some lawmakers see as progress toward relocating Space Shuttle Discovery from the Smithsonian Museum in Virginia to Houston, Texas. The agency emphasized it was seeking feedback on transporting something like a flown Orion capsule as well as a …
"The Nation's Attic (where IMO it should stay), it would be Palmdale, California."
There's not a public display space in Palmdale other than an aircraft graveyard at one of the Edwards AFB entrances. Given Palmdale's demographic, leaving a Shuttle parked outside even at the entrance to a military base might not be a great idea. The one in LA, once the display is complete and open again, is close enough.
I've seen the one at the Air & Space museum and it's a very good place for it. The collection there is amazing to begin with so Discovery is in good company and it's a lot of bang for no bucks to visit. If all of this sort of thing is in smaller collections spread out everywhere, it's harder to go see. The hope is that going forward, there will be more used craft to spread around so Texas will wind up with some more trinkets if they decide they want some. They weren't in the bidding for a Shuttle, so they didn't get one. Whoops. It should be too late now.
As I said, IMO it should be left where it is, in the custody of The Nation's Attic[0]. Which is not in Palmdale.
The only reason I suggest Palmdale is more "home" to Discovery than Houston is because that's where it was assembled.
[0] TNA is the informal name of The Smithsonian, if you're unaware ...
That's an apt term, and we had to put up with that ilk as a Supreme Court Justice and Senator. (his only redeeming quality is a slightly better human than the other senator from Texas, and I can't think of a lower bar) Shuttles have been to Houston before, but only for brief and rare pit stops at Ellington Field for refuel of the 747 carrier aircraft as part of a ferry-flight back from Edwards AFB to the Cape (rare boondoggle so the folks from JSC/MOD could run over an have an event, take pictures, and spend additional taxpayer dollars). Hardly something that give a claim as it's home. (now for the T38s, yes Ellington Field was home)
You cannot disassemble a shuttle to move it. Yes, you can pull access panels to inspect, etc., but to lift it for manipulate the umbilical or payload bay doors, engines, etc. it takes specialized equipment to provide support and prevent breakage. (it's actually quite fragile) All of the specialized equipment used to reside in the SPF and VAB at KSC, but now no longer exits in a state to do the job (the various pieces may be mothballed somewhere, but will do no one any good as part of a vehicle move today) The airframe itself was not designed to be broken down or taken apart once assembled. (and it's no small craft).
It is a beautiful vehicle. It would be a shame if it was damaged or lost as the result the petty arrogance of politicians in some misguided space vehicle grave-robbing venture. When the shuttle program wound down, the final resting place for the remaining vehicles was hotly debated by reasoned minds, decided upon, and then carefully executed to ensure the history remained in tact for generations to come. Leave well enough alone.
Perhaps Cornyn could show as as much interest and willingness to spend taxpayer dollars to help the two-million Americans whose healthcare just lapsed because of his vote to remove the subsidies that had made healthcare affordable? Seems he has more important matters to worry about.
"whose healthcare just lapsed because of his vote to remove the subsidies"
We don't have "healthcare" in the US. We have/had subsidized "health insurance" which is there to support the insurance companies who say "no" or dither long enough the the patient dies. Lawyers benefit as well since they can sue when grandad dies after being a heavy smoker for decades when the hospital fails to "save him" (and win bigly)
It was so annoying to hear Governor Abbott say that wind and solar power had been a big cause of the long outage in Feb 2021, when most of the wind and solar was back online within days or hours after the various storms (this was even possible to check later by looking at graphs from the Texas grid operations center), while the other generating plants took much longer to restart fully.
Yes but it still wasn't the first choice.
Anyway, they had an opportunity to bid for one of the orbiters and they basically treated it like it was a given they would get one. Personally think they went to the right places.
Waiting to go back to California science, they are mating Endeavour to flight ready main tank and boosters to make a full real stack.
NASA doesn't own Discovery. The Smithsonian does.
I really hope they just palm them off with whatever capsule they use for the next Artremis mission as that would fit the letter of the law as written.
“My job now is to make sure that we can undertake such a transportation [of Discovery] within the budget dollars that we have available. And of course, most importantly, ensuring the safety of the vehicle,” said Isaacman in an interview with CNBC. “If we can’t do that, you know what? We’ve got spacecraft that are going around the moon with Artemis II, III, IV, and V.” (From here.)
I suspect these texan galahs know as much about the US space program as they do about anything else viz SFA.
A decent painted plywood shuttle sized prop of the above Starship would probably satisfy these texan clowns and amuse the real space aficionados elsewhere.
(I think the original suffered a "wheels up" landing on some obscure planet.)
It is nigh impossible to take this nonsense seriously especially when there is so much American nonsense that is deadly (and) serious.
"(I think the original suffered a "wheels up" landing on some obscure planet.)"
It did not. The 'original' Constitution-class refit Enterprise NCC-1701 was scuttled in orbit above the Genesis Planet. Large pieces of it - especially the Engineering Hull - may have reached the surface intact, but none of those impacts would be legitimately described as 'landings', wheels-up or otherwise.
You may be thinking of the Galaxy-class Enterprise NCC-1701-D, the Saucer Section of which made a 'controlled' landing on Viridian III after detaching from its Drive Section (necessitated by an impending warp core breach). That landing, however, was not a 'repeatable' design intent - no wheels, struts, skis or other support structures were implemented, making any such flight-termination event less of a landing and more 'crashing with style'.
I think they used Wales on a Sunday
This would explain Armstrong's famously slightly garbled first phrase. "That's one small step for man, one giant sheep for Mankind."
Plus, when they were about to light the lunar ascent motor, Aldrin said, "Let's get the flock out of here!" Because, he had a baaad feeling about it...
[I know I should apologise. But I'm not gonna.]
I'm going to assume the downvoters are just jealous that they weren't privileged enough to be at the 1995 Royal Albert Hall "Generations" con when Ms Sirtis made that quip!
(and Patrick Stewart showed he could project his voice into the entire hall!)
The original USS Enterprise is already hanging in the Smithsonian. They wouldn't want to lose that either, surely?
https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/model-starship-enterprise-television-show-star-trek/nasm_A19740668000
But talking of Enterprise... I gather the prototype shuttle Enterprise was on display at the Smithsonian until Discovery arrived there, at which point Enterprise was bumped to the Intrepid Museum in New York. So they've already moved a decommissioned shuttle elsewhere once before. Ironically the modified 747 that made both those delivery trips is now on display in... Houston.
National Capital Crisis #1701 -- are we up to that many already? Probably not, but it sure feels that way.
National Capital Chaos: ongoing and unrelenting.
And we're only 14 months in!
*shudder*
(No disrespect intended to Star Trek. Rather, dismay at how far we still are from the world its creators envisioned -- and at how resolutely determined some people are to drag us in precisely the wrong direction.)
(No disrespect intended to Star Trek. Rather, dismay at how far we still are from the world its creators envisioned -- and at how resolutely determined some people are to drag us in precisely the wrong direction.)
I'm not sure we're that far off, are we?
"the world its creators envisioned"
Perhaps I was unclear. The above was meant to refer to the rather idealistic future, centuries hence, that is the Star Trek universe's main setting, not to whatever Special Guest Dystopias might, from time to time, be introduced for an episode or two.
I agree that that one in particular seems (judging only by the article you linked to; I haven't seen the episodes in question) distressingly close to a cross between refugee camps and real-life ICE detention, with a dash of Warsaw Ghetto as regards the physical environment. Different reasons for incarcerating people, but the same net effect.
Perhaps I was unclear. The above was meant to refer to the rather idealistic future, centuries hence, that is the Star Trek universe's main setting,
You weren't. I understood what you meant, but I was, perhaps slightly jokingly, pointing out that the utopia envisionged was born out of conflict and the worse aspects of humanity. It has always been part of the lore that humanity got worse before it learnt. :) Star Trek writers understood nothing comes for free, humanity, even in the ST world didn't just wake up one day and go 'oh, what a bunch of arseholes we are', they had to learn.
not to whatever Special Guest Dystopias might, from time to time, be introduced for an episode or two.
I think this does the ST world a slight disservice, it's utopia has always been a bit more neuonced than that. The back story may have been fleshed out over the years, but I believe it's fairly consistant. (It's utopia is also not necesseraly as good as it seems too, it's good if you live in it...)
I agree that that one in particular seems (judging only by the article you linked to;
The article I linked to about sanctuary districts is from an episode of DS9 that delt with this aspect of the lore in more detail, the timing and situations have some worrying parallels with today. Especially considering the episode was written in the much more idealistic 90s.
"(I think the original suffered a "wheels up" landing on some obscure planet.)"
It did not. The 'original' Constitution-class refit Enterprise NCC-1701 was scuttled in orbit above the Genesis Planet. Large pieces of it - especially the Engineering Hull - may have reached the surface intact, but none of those impacts would be legitimately described as 'landings', wheels-up or otherwise.
You may be thinking of the Galaxy-class Enterprise NCC-1701-D, the Saucer Section of which made a 'controlled' landing on Viridian III after detaching from its Drive Section (necessitated by an impending warp core breach). That landing, however, was not a 'repeatable' design intent - no wheels, struts, skis or other support structures were implemented, making any such flight-termination event less of a landing and more 'crashing with style'.
"My law authorizing and funding the Space Shuttle Discovery's movement to Houston is being set into motion thanks to NASA's announcement, and I applaud Administrator Isaacman for keeping this process moving."
His law? I thought it was the US's law but it's generous of him to take responsibility. In the meantime, if he believes all that I suppose there's a queue of people with bridges to sell him.
And isn't this turning out to be a particularly good Register Monday morning?
Let him keep his name prominently on show against this law.
Then keep reminding him of what that'll mean if he - or anyone - pushes too hard and they end up forced to deliver a mangled pile of machinery with a "Discovery" plaque sticking out the side.
Perhaps then some politicians may take the engineering of this seriously.
However, there is no way to move an intact shuttle ~40 miles to Quantico (as NASA suggested) or anywhere else on the Potomac. In short, NASA's first RFP is asking for the impossible.
Leaving out the "the Smithsonian owns Discovery" argument, surely NASA is complying with the law? And as experts in the field, if they say that the craft that gets transported - whichever craft that happens to be - must not be broken up, then it must not be broken up.
What? That means that Discovery can't be broken up and moved? It has to stay where it is? Oh no! Fancy that! Who would have thought it?!?
But a smaller craft can be moved intact?
Did this Act specify which space craft? No, it did not.
Therefore, they are obeying the letter of the law. They are "agreeing" to move a space craft, subject its conditions being met in full.
If the Texans can't move Discovery without dismantling it, they ain't gonna get it.
It would seem to me that Discovery certainly can be moved intact, the only real obstacle is money and collateral property harm along the route. People seem to be overlooking the fact that the petulant orange toddler is determined to have his own way, and there's nobody holding him to account, no financial cost that will dissuade him, no piece of heritage or reputation that he won't trash (anyone remember the East Wing the White House used to have?)
Hot on the heels of spending (reasonably guesstimated) $25bn so far on a pointless war to distract from Epstein revelations, I don't think that a vast cost to move the shuttle intact will be any deterrent. And if the private sector won't do it, what's to stop him commanding the army Corps of Engineers to do it?
Now it ALL MAKES SENSE!
The east wing was demolished to make room for the shuttle transport.
The stable genious in the white house concluded that sacrifices would have to be made in this noble quest, so he decided that the buck had to stop in the White House, and that it was best to lead by example, doing his part in creating clear passage from Dulles to the closest navigable waterway. It is a truly magnificent example of inspirational leadership by someone who could not possibly be a kiddy-fiddler.
Ok..
Purchase one airworthy 747 of the exact make and model as the original (late model 747s will not do, since a lot has changed ).
Find the plans and the original certification documentation.
Perform the changes and successfully re certify the modified 747.
Find pilots rated to fly this make and model of the 747 and train them to fly with a shuttle on top. You may need to modify and re-certify a simulator to do so.
And then there is the small matter of un-doing all the preservation work and re-certifying the Shuttle for (tethered) flight.
I suggest that alternatively Sen. Cruz can be wrapped in tinfoil and stuffed into the nose-cone of a minuteman that is about to run of.
"And then there is the small matter of un-doing all the preservation work and re-certifying the Shuttle for (tethered) flight."
Don't forget the Mate/De-mate apparatus on both ends. Using a crane is dangerous for both the carrier aircraft and the orbiter. The alignment is really tight.
It's very good to know that the aforementioned original 747 came with clear user instructions:
"ATTACH ORBITER HERE. NOTE: BLACK SIDE DOWN."
(Yes, I was a bit skeptical that someone may have been pranking Wikipedia with a spoofed image, but from links in the article, it appears to be genuine!)
Time is the critical factor here. Turning a draft RFP into a real one takes time. The proposals have to be evaluated. Questions have to be asked of them. Questions need to be answered. At some point it becomes too late to award a contract before Trump's out, hopefully replaced by someone in possession of some marbles - maybe even a full set.
Just like Trump, no plan (fluid) and no regard for others including the safety of the ship itself, just a video game. Obvious this is all for the spotlight and vanity of Cancun Ted and Cornyn so they can just soak it up, and no regard for the safety of a cherished National monument!
So when they break the shuttle that was never meant to be moved like this, they'll blame it on the Smithsonian and everyone else!
Besides, control is in Houston, but it was built in California and took off from Florida!
