Romanian rail workers accused of bribery turned to ChatGPT for legal tips

More than 30 Romanian railway employees accused of running a bribery and ticket resale racket allegedly tried to crowdsource their legal strategy from ChatGPT. Prosecutors in Bucharest have sent 33 staff from Romania's state rail operator CFR Călători to trial over claims they manipulated booking systems to lock sleeper and …

[An_Old_Dog]

Updated Saying

"A(n) person LLM who represents himself a human has a fool for a client."

[KittenHuffer]

Re: Updated Saying

And a 'tool' for a lawyer!

[heyrick]

I'd love to see an example defence statement

...to see if it has any relevance whatsoever to Romanian law or if it's painfully US-centric.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: I'd love to see an example defence statement

Well, they won't be able to filibuster in Romania. Or convince a jury. The LLM is not put to court too since it is just the tool, not intelligence let alone sentinent. Those answers were so general that they apply to EU as well.

Since Romania is part of EU they might get prison on probation, or prison without probation. Depending on who is the head of the group. Some may even get away with just a fine and an entry into their criminal record.

[MiguelC]

Re: I'd love to see an example defence statement

I don't know if it available in Romania, but trial by jury also exists in - at least - some EU countries (although where it does exist it's exceptional, and not as common as in the US)

And what has filibuster to do with legal proceedings?

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: I'd love to see an example defence statement

Filibuster is out of the normal court? Oh, sorry, I was still in an old BW movie, new enough to have audio, where that was used in a normal court...

[collinsl]

Re: I'd love to see an example defence statement

I doubt if filibustering would fly in a US court either - the Judge doesn't want their time wasted by the Defence making spurious arguments or showing off their research of a thesaurus, they want the relevant facts placed in front of the Court as expeditiously as possible. I'm sure any Judge who thought a Defence lawyer was waffling would tell them so, and move them along with their work, or otherwise institute Contempt of Court proceedings. In fact it may even hurt their client's chances if they annoy a jury through waffle as it ends up looking like a distraction technique.

[Swiss Anton]

Re: I'd love to see an example defence statement

Romania is one of those sensible countries that does not delegate justice to a bunch of untrained, unqualified, unaccountable and inexperienced conscripts, also know as a jury.

[Pete Sdev]

Re: I'd love to see an example defence statement

Jury trials are one of the UK's few plus points.

Which is probably why they're trying to get rid of them.

[goblinski]

It is painfully local-centric, in all the wrong ways.

I have tortured most of the mainstream ones with local questions in local languages and I can confirm that they become as insane as the matching local society is.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

"missing critical context"

Bones: "He's dead, ChatGPT!"

ChatGPT: "Irrelevant!"

[Paul Herber]

Re: "missing critical context"

Illogical, ChatGPT.

[ITMA]

Re: "missing critical context"

Scottie "You canna change the laws of physics, cap'n"

Cap'n "ChatGPT, what do you say"

ChatGPT: "Says who - of course I can. Besides, according physicist Capt Barbosa, they're not so much 'laws' as 'guidelines'"".

[Not Yb]

Jailbreak?

They clearly asked the wrong AI, they needed one that had already successfully broken out of jail a few times.

[Sorry that handle is already taken.]

"Tools like ChatGPT can summarize..."

LLMs can certainly shorten text, but summarising it requires the meaning to not get lost or reversed in the process

[Paul Herber]

Re: "Tools like ChatGPT can summarize..."

>'It is not possible, if you are dead, to eat arsenic.' Can you eat arsenic if you not dead?

It is possible to eat arsenic if you are not dead.

[Cheshire Cat]

Re: "Tools like ChatGPT can summarize..."

... maybe - but only once

[MachDiamond]

Rule one

Keep your mouth shut and engage an attorney. The rule can be used figuratively to mean not going online to sort out how to cover your ass.

If you are arrested, everything you do after that will be watched closely. Too often, suspects build the case against themselves much better than a prosecutor is allowed to. Jail phones are often recorded. There may be some inadmissibility when it comes to attorney/client conversations, but not when suspect are talking to their "crew" and baby mamas.

[Boolian]

Chatty GPT

I'm more interested in how investigators came by the ChatGPT prompts.

"Hi there, it looks like you're searching this PC for suspicious activity, you're quite correct, maybe I can help"

[khjohansen]

RE: Chatty GPT

I'd suggest they've been using employer-supplied devices (!)

[RabanePaco]

Romanian rsilways corruption

During the time when Romania still was communist I traveled there. I was told no-one bought tickets, but paid the conductors cash, without prove.

[The Dark Side Of The Mind (TDSOTM)]

Re: Romanian rsilways corruption

As a Romanian still living in my birthplace, I can tell that even today you can pay cash to the conductor, but they frown upon that, preferring card payments. Also, they will issue receipts for all the money charged.

Railway police is often present on some trains on certain routes, and that's a deterrent to illegal behavior.

On short commute trips, things might be different, though (I don't commute by train).

[MachDiamond]

Re: Romanian rsilways corruption

"I was told no-one bought tickets, but paid the conductors cash, without prove."

Well, if they paid the conductor, that's "buying a ticket". These days there's less work to be done by not taking cash since it has to be secured, counted and deposited at a bank (or picked up by armored truck). If the fares paid onboard are nice round numbers so there's no need to make change with coins, it would be easy to get a receipt. There are restaurants where the server takes payment at the table, prints a receipt and gets a signature without having to go in the back.

The ability to pay onboard a train or while getting on a bus means if the kiosk is broken, you are still ticketed rather than just taking a chance to avoid being late getting somewhere. As a big fan of paying with cash, I can see the pitfalls of digital payments. It can also be difficult for somebody visiting to sort out how to pay for a ticket. It's a real dose of fun to use a card issued in another country to pay for many things. Many of those cards having a toll-free number listed for inquiries that doesn't work where you are when traveling.

A video I was watching of an American traveling in Japan had him stymied when his phone had no signal and he wanted to buy something to eat. Cash may not have worked at vending machines, but somebody around would be likely to trade cash for food.