back to article British military to get legal OK to swat drones near bases

Britain's defense personnel will be given the authority to neutralize drones threatening military bases under measures being introduced in the Armed Forces Bill, currently making its way through Parliament. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) claims that reported sightings of unmanned aerial intruders near sensitive UK military …

  1. Korev Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    Airports too?

    Will/is there be similar legislation for civilian airports too? The mess at Gatwick a few years ago was pretty disruptive...

    1. breakfast Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Airports too?

      The really intriguing thing about the situation at Gatwick is that no subsequent investigation has found any compelling evidence that there were any drones involved. There were reports but no actual proof, which is wild for 2018 when most people had smartphones with cameras in them.

      Per Wikipedia: "The investigation was closed on 27 September 2019, citing lack of new information. No culprit or evidence of drone use was found. There are no known photographs or videos of the drone, and authorities have no official description of the drone."

      1. Winkypop Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Airports too?

        Today’s cameras are too high def.

        Any fool knows that the best UFO/Cryptozoology photos are ultra grainy and low def.

        Bring back cheap cameras!

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: Airports too?

          No pics of yeti/sasquatch or even the Loch Ness monster in the age of the smartphone

        2. breakfast Silver badge

          Re: Airports too?

          Surprisingly few photographs of ghosts in an era where everyone has a camera.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Airports too?

      The Gatwick kerfuffle was most likely just a figment[0] brought on by mass psychosis ... beware of what you wish for.

      Unless you like the idea of the PTB shooting at imaginary things, probably eventually egged on by AI hallucinations ...

      [0] OK, some figments.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Airports too?

      Yeah, what could possibly go wrong spraying small arms fire across the heavily populated surroundings of most of the UK's airports?

      1. IGotOut Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Airports too?

        Go back, read article.

  2. breakfast Silver badge

    I bet the army have a bunch of counter-uncrewed notional threat systems ready to go. The real problem is finding a good acronym for them.

    1. jake Silver badge

      They are called "anti-drone drones". Nice TLA, that.

      1. breakfast Silver badge

        Cue headlines complaining about how even the army have ADD these days.

      2. ParlezVousFranglais Silver badge
        Coat

        How about SAD - Seek And Deactivate

        "Here I am, AI the size of a planet, and they have me sat here swatting drones"...

    2. Guy de Loimbard
      Pint

      Pint for you

      I like the style of acronym thinking you clearly demonstrate, good sir knight, or lady knight!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Now make it legal for drones

    to be swatted when they hover outside bedroom windows especially if the occupants of those bedrooms are children or women.

    There are a bunch of [redacted] squatting in a property near me who fly their drones every day. There has been a significant rise in B&E since they moved in. Drones are perfect for casing targets. Capturing women in their bedrooms in states of undress is an unwelcome bonus. The Police? Are nowhere to be seen.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Now make it legal for drones

      What's B&E in this scenario?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Now make it legal for drones

        Break and enter I’m guessing

      2. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

        Re: Now make it legal for drones

        Breaking (in) and Entering. Burglary

        1. Korev Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: Now make it legal for drones

          Thank you both

    2. Blazde Silver badge

      Re: Now make it legal for drones

      If only there were some kind of concealment device one could use to cover windows from the inside while in a state of undress. It wouldn't need to be very complicated or expensive. A piece of sufficiently thick fabric for instance, and a simple-ish mechanism for attaching it above windows so it could hang down yet also be removed or re-deployed with relative ease.

      1. Catkin

        Re: Now make it legal for drones

        I'm curtain no one has been able to engineer such a solution

      2. midgepad Bronze badge

        IKEA

        Have a variety of such, and also blinds electrically lowered by a remote button.

      3. Guy de Loimbard
        Big Brother

        Re: Now make it legal for drones

        Have you considered a Patent Application for such a thing?

        I am sure the USPTO will let you file and then sue anyone who sells or comes up with such a fiendishly clever Drone privacy tool!!

    3. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Now make it legal for drones

      As drones make the sound of a swarm of bees amplified through a Marshall 4x12 cab, they are far from perfect for stealthy surveillance.

      1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

        Re: Now make it legal for drones

        That depends a LOT on how strong the lens is on the camera, as well as what kind of open angles exist.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: Now make it legal for drones

          Your dependency requirement stretches the definition of the word "perfect" somewhat.

          1. Claptrap314 Silver badge

            Re: Now make it legal for drones

            In my world, the perfect solution depends on the problem being addressed. I find it much easier to solve for particular problems than for the general case.

    4. Johnb89

      Re: Now make it legal for drones

      Or indeed just anyone... no need to be selective.

  4. andy the pessimist

    be careful what you wish for

    A squaddie sees a drone flying over the airbase. Gets the rifle out.....ordered to use the top secret anti drone tech.

    The drone is flying over the hangars.....no don't shoot you'll damage the only f35 we've got.

    The drone is flying over a bunker...no don't shoot you'll blow up the bombs.

    Ok sir when can i shoot?

    1. parlei

      Re: be careful what you wish for

      One of the problems is that what goes up must come down.

      As we have seen in Ukraine it is possible to hit small, nearby and slow drones with normal military rifles, in particular of some sort of round with multiple projectiles is used (like a shotgun shell, but for rifles). But in a closely populated area and no shooting war going on this might be frowned upon.

    2. Korev Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: be careful what you wish for

      F35 with weapons are problems the RAF/WAFU would love to have

    3. AVR Silver badge

      Re: be careful what you wish for

      Time to revive that trained falcon research perhaps: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-falcons-drones-research/

    4. ChrisC Silver badge

      Re: be careful what you wish for

      If your weapons storage bunkers are sufficiently poorly constructed that there's a risk of setting off the stuff stored within by opening fire with small arms, then you've got *much* bigger problems than having an unauthorised drone buzzing around your airbase...

      Similar for the "hangars", which on most bases (especially those out of which high value airframes such as F-35 would be operating) are more likely to be hardened shelters (HAS) as opposed to the more flimsy hangers you might be thinking of, suitable (mostly) for sheltering aircraft from the elements, and also from the prying eyes of satellites/recon aircraft, but really not designed to offer much if any level of protection against anything else.

      1. Claptrap314 Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: be careful what you wish for

        Well, you could store wings in those...

        Okay, okay. That's a reference to, AIR a Norman Schwarzkop response to a question about a video where we sent a missile under a bridge & two aircraft wings are seen coming out

  5. ComicalEngineer Silver badge

    Make it legal --

    -- to shoot the drone pilots.

    That'll learn 'em.

    1. ComicalEngineer Silver badge

      Re: Make it legal --

      Irony loss.

      Oh, dear, obviously a sense of humour failure from the downvoters.

  6. thedarkstar

    Insane they don't already have the power/rights to do so. Anything threatening national defence should be dealt with swiftly.

    1. Graham Cobb

      Anything threatening national defence should be dealt with swiftly proportionately.

      In particular, collateral damage must always be considered. And anything involving any possible risks to public would have to be completely illegal unless a shooting war was currently underway and even then require a clear order from a senior commander who would need to be held personally responsible for damage or injury to non-combatants.

    2. Blazde Silver badge

      It was widely reported that new-fangled jammers were deployed to Gatwick/other airports when there were drone sightings a few years back so presumably there are some powers, but perhaps MoD need to phone the police when it happens near a military base?

      It's right that military powers on home turf are scrutinised quite carefully because 'anything threatening national defence should be dealt with swiftly' is an argument not too many steps removed from soldiers gunning down CND protesters getting in the way of a lorry full of rations trying to enter an RAF base or whathaveyou.

    3. Johnb89

      A drone isn't so different from a plane

      I'm not sure why powers that allow MoD staff to deal with a rogue plane or helicopter can't be applied to drones, such that new powers/law is required. Or was the old law so badly written?

      Obviously shooting things down / blowing things up over nearby residential areas should be avoided, but that's HOW you do it, not IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to do it.

      1. Blazde Silver badge

        Re: A drone isn't so different from a plane

        It's difficult to find a good analysis but at the least they're subject to normal civilian criminal law. So the shooting down of something in self defence (or defence of others) with necessary and proportionate force would be allowed. Even when not in a war-zone, if a rogue unidentified helicopter gunship is unleashing all hell on you then it would seem proportionate to go ahead and blow it out of the sky if you happen to be on an RAF base with the capabilities to do so.

        It gets sightly murkier where protecting property is concerned because, I believe, that's outside primary legislation detail and instead relies on a mix of internal MoD rules and international/NATO law. Interesting reading here: https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/42315/documents/210416/default/

        Where there's just a loitering drone suspected of collecting intelligence - a 'Hostile act not constituting an actual attack', the response should be informed by local rule of engagement but also intelligence on the person(s) controlling the drones and the threat they pose, and that might be very difficult to judge when an unidentified drone shows up out of the blue in the British countryside near a base. Is it a kid flying a toy drone badly, is it a protest group looking to give a red tinge to the engine of a cargo plane, or is it about to put a large explodey hole in an F35 parked out in the open?

        What they don't have are normal police powers, including the new-ish powers to seize (but not destroy) drones given in the Air Traffic Management and Unmanned Aircraft Act 2021. In particular when flying in restricted zones, which already includes all airbases (and probably other military bases?), since that's a criminal offence whatever the intent of the drone flyer. That seems an oversight to me.

  7. Winkypop Silver badge
    Alert

    The Jet-Propelled Guided NAAFI flies again

    Those rock buns are lethal.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: The Jet-Propelled Guided NAAFI flies again

      You rotten swine, you!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Jet-Propelled Guided NAAFI flies again

      I hate to say it, but sending Goons in never works...

    3. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: The Jet-Propelled Guided NAAFI flies again

      They got nothing on civil service catering organisation rock cakes. only material hard enough to cut super alloys. used to leave them to soak in the tidal basin for 4 weeks for them to get soft enough to break a piece off.

      And then there were the meat pies (we assume it was meat) sold with the slogan "Has the bottom fallen out of your world? then eat a CSCO meat pie and have the world fall out of your bottom"

      Icon for those who were stuck with CSCO

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    FFS! Let the airport security/squaddies have a bit of target practice. So long as they are not firing in the direction of buildings.

    One bullet for the brains of the drone, and one bullet for the leg of the flyer (if they can be identified).

    Posting anonymously as I have taken out a drone that was flying over my garden (the fact that it was with a catapult and frozen Gooseberry, shows how close it was).

    Obviously the perp knew where I lived, but they never came knocking on the door asking for the pieces back.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      At the time of writing, it looks like 8 drone flyers have down voted the comment.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Downvoted the fictional anecdote.

        FTFY.

        I wasn’t one of the downvotes btw.

  9. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    Cue all the Ruperts bringing their shotguns onto base "just in case".

    1. CountCadaver Silver badge

      accompanied by a yell of "PULL"?

      1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

        I say old boy, there's no bag limit. Tally ho!

  10. silver_fox

    This is just going to become a new sport

    Drone spotted? Squaddie has a loaded rifle? Pop!

    Threat neutralised

    You can see the whiteboard on the wall of the naafi now showing most drones downed this month.

    This alone will keep the "auditors" away purely because they won't be able to afford to keep buying new drones

  11. IceC0ld

    one would have hoped that the ARMED forces, already HAD the option to take out anything that intruded over / around their bases

    and I AM aware that even at Buck House, the only ones carrying weapons and ammo, are the police, as the services are not allowed to carry on the streets

    but there has to come a point, where our national security interests are best served by stopping intrusions ASAP

    what was the old saying ? better to ask for forgiveness, than to ask for permission :o)

    we live in hope that when the inevitable day arrives, that the forces clear it away, clean and fast, and, ideally, no witnesses

    as I can only imagine the storm the MSM would create from anything they perceive to be not good

  12. awomanmanhasaname

    The idea youd need new legislation as opposed to a policy change is ridiculous

  13. midgepad Bronze badge

    shooting a net sounds hopeful.

    As does identifying the source of the command signals.

  14. Bebu sa Ware Silver badge
    Windows

    Permitting the destruction of "unmanned" drones ?

    I can imagine those on the UK government backbenches that normally vacation with the pixies asking "isn't it discriminatory restricting it to unmanned drones ? There could be a woman not in it."

    Presumably if any destructive response is restricted to unmanned (unwomanned etc if you wish) threats then manned etc threats may not destroyed summarily which leaves the question of how to determine whether a vehichle is manned or unmanned.

    Ultimately the only reliable determinant is size. If it is below a certain size it must be unmanned.

    So the smart option for a hostile party would be to deploy a remotely controlled or autonomous vehicle like a waymo or specially outfitted cessna to deliver their goodies.

    The pixielanders might bomb your tanks with donkey dick pink paint.

    † Yes I know. L. manus — n(f) hand.

  15. Cav

    "greater powers to take out and shoot down "

    So you have to take them out to dinner and then shoot them down?

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