NS&I's IT car crash considers cutting legacy links to stop the bleeding

A British state-owned bank is reconfiguring its modernization project, including considering reducing connections with legacy systems, as it tries to claw back schedule and budget overruns that are far beyond early plans. The National Savings & Investment (NS&I) transformation program is already £1.3 billion over budget and …

[Valeyard]

Ns&i

The absolute irony of this article and those sums for no return being associated with the words "NATIONAL SAVINGS AND INVESTMENTS"

[af108]

The only banking app that didn't accept payments

Up until maybe 12 months ago the NS&I mobile app didn't even let you pay money in.

They have updated it so you can now make a bank transfer to top up an account. Prior to this you had to use the website to do that - or use a card. You still have to use the website to withdraw money because the app doesn't support that either.

What kind of over budget bollocks is going on here when the basics of a bank (money in, money out) aren't even a function of it's digital service??

For those wondering the older version of the app literally let you see your accounts & balances. That was it.

[af108]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

Edit: I've just checked the app and it's worse than I thought.

To make a payment in it simply gives you an account number, sort code and reference on an info screen. Which you then have to instruct your bank to use. Pay by card or any other means? Not possible. Website only.

Payments out? Still website only.

It's 2026 ffs.

[nobody who matters]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

"It's 2026 ffs."

It's a British Government owned investment bank - it about what you'd expect tbh;)

[the spectacularly refined chap]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

Payments out? Still website only.

It's 2026 ffs.

That sounds ideal to me. I hate those words "you can use our app for this..."

Particularly when it is functionality that works fine on the desktop website but is mysteriously not possible on the mobile site. Yes I may be using a phone instead of a desktop today but that isn't an excuse: if you demand I install an app I am forced to conclude it is for nefarious purposes that my web browser would block for security reasons.

It's 2026? Yes, that's exactly why I maintain the above.

[Steve Foster]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

Why is there even an app? If there's a functioning website, they simply aren't needed.

I'm increasingly fed up with organisations killing off (or severely restricting) their website functionality - that provides pretty much universal accessibility - in favour of [cr]apps that require a specific device (ie smartphone).

[af108]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

> Why is there even an app? If there's a functioning website, they simply aren't needed.

Because it costs less for them to maintain either an app or website than both simultaneously.

The industry view seems to be that the average person "prefers" using a mobile app. I'm not sure what the evidence for that actually is but it's widely regarded that "mobile first" is the way of the world. Personally I find reading a bank statement easier on my 24 inch monitor than a phone so I can't say I agree with the status quo but here we are!

[Steve Foster]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

"Because it costs less for them to maintain either an app or website than both simultaneously."

If cost is the primary concern, the solution is website only.

Maintaining an app normally means _two_ apps because there are two major device ecosystems, so they aren't saving money over just developing the website (just the opposite).

"Personally I find reading a bank statement easier on my 24 inch monitor than a phone so I can't say I agree with the status quo but here we are!"

Well, I've stuck with paper bank statements because they're generally even easier to read (though my annual mortgage statement is trying to prove the opposite by being printed at 8pt or 9pt! [for no good reason]). But yes, I find just about everything easier to read on a good-sized monitor than on my phone, and similarly it's much easier to enter text via a keyboard than with my fingers on 1/3 of a smartphone screen (which simultaneously shrinks the already too-small display or covers up crucial elements).

[LybsterRoy]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

The other aspect is security. I really do not want to access my back whilst I'm walking about.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

-- Personally I find reading a bank statement easier on my 24 inch monitor than a phone --

I've only got a 17" monitor (its a laptop) and I prefer reading my statement on printer - I find it much easier to tick items off when doing a bank rec on paper than on screen

[Old fella]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

100%

I got an email from Royal Mail for a package delivery with a button similar to

Delivery Instructions

but the only option was to download their app to add a 'Leave in Porch' message.

No thanks.

I resorted to a post-it on the door. Low tech but worked.

[nobody who matters]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

If you have the tracking reference, you can specify a safe place for the delivery if you go onto the RM website tracking page (assuming that option is available on your delivery - if it requires a signature or age verification, the option isn't available).

[FirstTangoInParis]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

The proliferation of apps is a pain since smartphone users need ever increasing amounts of memory to install them all. However for quick action you can’t beat an app especially with the biometric authentication. Trying to log in to some bank websites requires card readers and backflips, and sometimes selected characters from the required very long passwords.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: The only banking app that didn't accept payments

Try this as your password S E C U R I T Y

[VoiceOfTruth]

What do they actually do with all this money?

What is it being spent on? Why does it cost so much?

Somebody is making some money out of this. And, as usual with the way-over-budget 'progress', nobody will be held to account.

[Valeyard]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

The usual suspects line up like piglets to suckle at that government teat

[Like a badger]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

I can't answer, what i can say is that NS&I are "only" a deposit taker, and therefore have a far less complex business than even a building society, no branches, no borrower credit risk to manage. They have 26m customers which is big for UK retail banks, but middling compared to the larger US retail banks. Given that their business is very, very simple, I think it's a very pertinent question as to what they actually got for that money.

[Tron]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

In the circumstances, they perhaps should have sold the banking customers to one of the big banks and just hung on to the premium bonds, which is a unique service.

Personally, with regard to govt contracts in general, I would only accept a fixed price contract. If it didn't work when the money ran out, the contractor could pay to finish it out of their own pocket, or admit failure, pay back the entire sum and call it quits. The quotes would then be more accurate.

When you are the government and handing out billions, you should use your muscle, rather than allowing the tax payer to be screwed over just to feather bed your retirement on someone's board.

When NS&I set up their website for premium bonds, you had to jump through so many ID authentication hoops to access it, I gave up and stopped using it.

I don't use apps. I used to use a smartphone on holiday for maps etc, but no longer travel much. A feature phone is enough. Anything that is app only, I just ignore.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

Maybe yachts, escorts, supercars, properties, gold, baby oil... not in the UK of course.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

And was it broken before they fixed it?

[JLV]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

The code has gold flakes in it, natch.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: What do they actually do with all this money?

-- nobody will be held to account. --

That is the main problem - lack of consequences

I'm not saying there can't be massive cock-ups even if there are consequences

[juliansh]

A classic Systems Integrator approach to shafting clients

The usual land and expand approach to get fingerprints all over the key applications, hollow out any in-house expertise and then hold the client to ransom over self-inflicted legacy dependencies (technical and personnel).

Tragic and immoral, yet Governments (of all colours) and big corporations fall for it time after time

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: A classic Systems Integrator approach to shafting clients

I had a director say exactly that to me, I left soon after.

[ecofeco]

Re: A classic Systems Integrator approach to shafting clients

They don't "fall for it". They do it deliberately.

Besides the obvious backhanders and brown envelopes and favors, there is also the quid pro quo of conflict of interest stocks and retirement sinecures.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: A classic Systems Integrator approach to shafting clients

Its not just systems integrators I remember when I was in management consultancy us consultants were told basically do the job second look out for more business first

[cookiecutter]

WHY?!

isn't part of the tender process.... you've fucked up multiple times before.... if you don't deliver this ON TIME ON BUDGET & 100% with the benefits that you said it would not do you pay back 100% of the payment made but you also don't get another public sector contract for 10 years?!!!

craptia, fushitsu, atos, wipro, tcs, infoshite, accenshite, kpmg, et al.....NONE of them would be getting repeat work!

how is it possible that you can say...heres a quote.. we'll do the job, then when you screw it up or don't deliver you get MORE money to fix your own screw ups?!

[hoola]

Re: WHY?!

This is all down to the insane procurement rules.

When a tender is evaluated you can only go on the information that is supplied and the references included in the document.

You are not allowed to use prior direct contract knowledge or anything that you had read.

This is all so that unsuccessful responses cannot then sue because they failed to win.

Public sector procurement is all about protecting the public body from being sued by the private sector. Those bidding know this and it is why the entire thing is such a shambles. It is mostly the fault of the private sector who see any public body as a source of cash to be ruthlessly exploited.

This is also why it is so difficult to act on failure and cancel contracts, use legal means to enforce contracts and generally get those private sector organisations to deliver what they claimed.

That much of what the claimed is pure fantasy and is only to win a procurement process is largely lost in the noise.

[PCScreenOnly]

Re: WHY?!

Need to change the rules then

[LybsterRoy]

Re: WHY?!

Or as part of the RFQ have a question along the lines of "what government projects have you been involved with and what was the outcome?" and make the score of that question be equal to the rest of the response.

[cookiecutter]

Re: WHY?!

These firms are absolute scum. They charge the tax payer for the job. Take tax payer cash. Most of them will be doing accountancy shenanigans to avoid paying corporation taxes.

They will overcharge the public sector body and will sue at the drop of a hat, plus give the most expensive option available and load up as many staff as possible, ironically most of them "business staff" rather than technical or those who can actually do the job.

Given the choice of the quick, cheap & totally suitable version or the expensive long complicated version, we all know which one they'll go for, including hardware & software where tehy get the biggest margin from the vendors!

THEN they'll offshore as much work as possible, thus taking away jobs from the domestic workforce & huge amounts of tax revenue from HMRC which pays for the projects in the first place.

The fact that crown commercial also facilitates this with suppliers allowed to provide staff at Onshore, NearShore & Offshore locations - if it's a Government contract EVERY employee engaged in that contract should be Onshore! I don't care if it's the Helpdesk, the people doing the work, the PMs, the service managers. EVERY single person engaged in it, regardless of whether it's DV, SC or not.

If the Government isn't dedicated to keeping as many high quality jobs in this country, who else will be?

I saw an advert pop up on my Reddit feed - those idiots in the Department of Business are still trying to get people to do cybersecurity and coding degrees! "Come on kids! Spend £60k on a coding degree or cybersecurity degree! Graduate to no jobs because we're shovelled them all offshore or we've been providing the outsourcers with literally 100,000s ov visas to destroy your wages. Then you'll be paying such high interest rates on your student loans that even while paying £100s/month repayments, your actual amount owed a still triple!"

This fucking country! Run by morons, headed by a sausage fingered moron who thinks taking a helicopter to a food bank is a good look & staffed by morons who can't look outside their own little silos as long as they don't have to take responsibility for anything & too short sighted to see that they are the GOVERNMENT & they'll get back more than 60% of any wages they pay for any on shore worker who'll spend it here; rather than offshore who'll take it all or a visa worker who'll send it home.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: WHY?!

These firms also lobbied for IR35 to remove competition. Smaller firms routinely undercut them in public sector and were often used to scrutinise their poor delivery.

This was painful for those corporations. That said, they knew where skeletons are buried (after all they control the infra and have access to data), so corrupt governments bent the knee.

Unfortunately workers swallowed the tax avoidance propaganda and abandoned one of the few leverages they had over corporations for no benefit at all.

Now IT market is broken, tax payer spends exorbitant money for non-delivery and taxes go offshore.

When small business participated in the market, taxes were paid locally and so the money was spent locally, expertise was maintained and the UK was regarded as a place to do IT.

[Aladdin Sane]

Thank you NS&I

For making Birmingham Council look good slightly less shit.

[Phil Ni'Sophical]

Re: Thank you NS&I

For making "Europe's largest local authority" look [...].

There are reg standards to adhere to!!

[lordminty]

Re: Thank you NS&I

And HMRC and the NHS and...

[elsergiovolador]

Bingo

Which usual suspects are missing from this debacle yet to be contracted?

That said, destruction of IT market is partly corrupt HM Treasury own doing, so I'd say let them taste their own medicine, but then we are paying for this.

Heads will roll? Out of laughter at stupid tax payer maybe...

[Ikoth]

Nothing to see here

What's that you say? A government IT project is late and over budget? With one of the usual suspects in the driving seat? Yawn....

Have to agree with Rita Mae Brown on this one.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Nothing to see here

Have to agree with Rita Mae Brown on this one.

Love to know the reference here.

She was well under my radar but looking at WikiP she appears a very interesting woman who has lived to see more than anyone's fair share of shit. I can only try and imagine the bitter tears being shed in the face of contemporary America.

[Ikoth]

Re: Nothing to see here

She's believed to be the originator of the quote often mis-attributed to Einstein - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

[old-iron]

Having sat in front of these folk (not allowed anywhere near the actual client/"user" of course) in 2020/21, it was clear they were ONLY interested in feathering their own nest.

Absolutely no clue wrt the current state and therefore no plan for a realistic way fwd.

[Bebu sa Ware]

I was thinking it would be cheaper…

to just transfer en masse all the accounts held in this dysfunctional state owned bank to a functional British non-state owned bank. Then I realised that a functional British anything these days … is probaby a mythical beast known only to heralds.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: I was thinking it would be cheaper…

Would have given a second upvote if possible for "known only to heralds".

[Tron]

Re: I was thinking it would be cheaper…

It is a truth universally acknowledged that anyone in a position of power or authority in the UK is incompetent, corrupt, or both.

I would guess that multiplying your contracts by five, multiplies your, ahem, opportunities.

Ironically, in the UK, the major banks generally work. They are more evil (closing branches) than incompetent (the websites often work). Pretty much everything else is cack, the schools close when the IT goes down and the local authorities are just queueing up to be malwared/screwed over by contractors. As for central government, well, Brexit = 25% off sterling, so no recovery for a generation, if ever.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: I was thinking it would be cheaper…

Why are you restricting this to the UK? Evidence abounds for a much greater spread.

[nobody who matters]

Re: I was thinking it would be cheaper…

" I was thinking it would be cheaper…

to just transfer en masse all the accounts held in this dysfunctional state owned bank to a functional British non-state owned bank."

National Savings & Investments isn't really a bank in the sense that most people would understand them. It is a department of the UK Treasury, and when originally set up as part of the General Post Office, it was not only to provide somewhere for ordinary people to save and invest for their future, it was to assist with relieving Government debt.

As such, the rates of interest were usually higher than would be found elsewhere. Nowadays, the rates are nothing special, and the cost of the current mess isn't going to allow that to improve.

Moving NS&I savings vehicles over to a conventional high street bank would probably not be so simple (or indeed, particularly cheap).

[Richard 12]

Yes, it's not a bank

It's the way UK Government Bonds are sold to the hoi polloi.

Most government bonds can only be bought by "institutional investors - banks, pension funds, foreign sovereign wealth funds*. The argument is that the bonds last a decade or more, and normal people don't want to lock up their cash that long. In reality banks don't either, the bonds get resold pretty much instantly.

NS&I was set up to allow normal people to lend money to the UK Government with the right to end the loan at any time. The government of the day tells NS&I how much to raise, and they try to do that.

Which makes it an absolutely trivial organisational function, aside from the deliberate complication of the monthly Premium Bond lottery draws. The back end and apps should cost basically nothing.

* This is why Europe and China (the country) own nearly all US government debt.

[graemep]

Re: Yes, it's not a bank

individuals can buy and sell uk govt bonds (aka gilts) just as easily as shares or corporate bonds.

[Anonymous Coward]

WTAF??

They’re struggling to manage one contract with Atos, but somehow managing 5 contracts will make it better?? Good luck getting ownership of a complex issue.

[Anonymous Coward]

Zoot alors...

Still nice to see we are bailing out the French Economy to the Tune of billions.

Cap and Atos making Fujitsu and IBM look good since....

[ComicalEngineer]

The usual suspects

Atos and Capgemini. Who would have thunk it?

All we need now is for Crapita and Fuckitupsu to get stuck in.

The are plenty of banks with good operating systems but NS&I are potentially looking to reinvent the wheel as a square.

Again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The usual suspects

Please name another bank that pays interest based on a monthly prize draw.

[jpennycook]

Re: The usual suspects

Chip

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The usual suspects

> Atos and Capgemini. Who would have thunk it?

The article is a little careless in throwing in a reference to Capgemini at the very end, leading the reader to infer they have more involvement than they do.

Looking at the NAO report linked to in the article, we see (page 26-7) that Capgemini weren't engaged until May 2025 and had no involvement before then. So they are one of the new "five contracts" winners helping to sort it out.

Atos, on the other hand, have been in from the very start so feel free to stick the boot in on them!

[Gavsky]

Humans, eh? If it's possible to over-complicate, we're absolute experts at it. It should be relatively simple, what with the IT & management expertise available, but we reinvent the wheel, so often.

[Jimbo09990]

My only interaction with NS&I was when trying to get access to my dad's premium bonds when acting under an LPA.

The government have the function of given organisations a digital code so they can check validity of the LPA online. (It's the same tech used to give organisations access to your driving license info). It's all very quick and painless.

Except if your NS&I. I had to generate the digital code online, then print it out and snail mail it to them. They wouldn't accept the code over the phone, via email or online form. The first time I tried they took longer than the 30 day validity of the code, so had to post them another one.

[Anonymous Coward]

That must have been a while ago as I’ve did LPA for my parents in December and it was easy. Virgin Money? Still fighting that battle…

[nobody who matters]

Licence ;)

[MJB7]

Licence

The rule is "c" for the noun, "s" for the verb. The mnemonic I learnt is "advice" vs "advise", and it's easy to distinguish those two because the pronunciation is different.