ATM maintenance tech broke the bank by forgetting to return a key

Welcome to another edition of “Who Me?”, The Register’s Monday column that shares your mistakes and celebrates your escapes. This week, meet a reader we’ll Regomize as “Phil” who once had a job maintaining automatic teller machines (ATMs). This story starts with routine maintenance of an ATM at a bank branch. “I solved the …

[Pascal Monett]

"all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

Wow.

If only Trump's croonies could face the same backlash !

[Korev]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

> If only Trump's croonies could face the same backlash !

Don't bank on it...

[Pickle Rick]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

Is that advice from your personal account...?

[Korev]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

That money was just resting in my account

[Pickle Rick]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

All will be forgiven, apparently. You can seal the deal by saving some colleagues from an embarrassing "lingerie department" scenario :)

[Now how did that bra get in there, Father? -->]

[Spamolot]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

All mention of Father Ted is verbotten. (and for God's sake "don't mention the war!").

[Inventor of the Marmite Laser]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

He is a credit to his company.

[MatthewSt]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

It's like all the current accounts: no interest

[Scott 53]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

So it wasn't his vault?

[Pickle Rick]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

Ha! Safe! -->

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

Did you lear to say that at a quality learing center ?

[Pickle Rick]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

Now, now, don't get leary [sic]...

[Ikkabar]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

Didn't realise they were singers......

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: "all were re-assigned to work at other branches!"

I think they are planning on leaving for Qatar before any impeachments happen. They have a rather large nest egg saved there as proceeds from recent Venezuelan oil sales. No one seems to be able to explain why the money didn't end up in either the US or Venezuelan treasuries,

[Korev]

Weeks later, I learned that all the branch staff were disciplined for breaking rules regarding safekeeping

Sounds like it was a key part of their jobs

[Korev]

I hope they didn't Phil their pockets with cash

[Pickle Rick]

He could've paid security to lock another way.

[Pickle Rick]

One might say a primary, key part of their jobs, in the grand schema of things...

[Anonymous Coward]

Key, what key?

I'm based in the East Midlands of the UK.

We have a cabinet in a popular Docklands-based colocation facility which is secured by a key held by the on site security team.

Once, driving home after visiting said facility, I'd got as far as the M11/M25 junction before realising the key was still in my jeans pocket :(

Cue an extra 1.5 hours of driving a big loop back to Docklands to return it to security. Bugger.

[Yes Me]

Re: Key, what key?

This seems like a fair punishment for living in the East Midlands.

[Archivist]

Re: Key, what key?

Sense of humour loss?

[david 12]

Fired

Relative of the mother of one of my friends worked printing stamps in my city. Took public transport home, and found the police waiting for him when he got home. That was it: released from duties.

On a lighter note, I applied for a tech job in a juvenile prison, and was told that employees could lose the keys -once-. That would be a warning, because not an 'at will' employment state. First time would be 'counseling'. Second time would indicate that you were not suitable for further employment.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Fired

david 12,

Interesting on the prison. A friend of mine was a newly qualified CofE vicar, and decided that his next job (after his curacy) would be as a prison chaplain. He was told that if his keys left the prison, then he would be leaving his job. But that they had a policy of making sure they took them off you, when you signed out. Policy was that once the keys were outside the prison, they'd be treated as if they'd been copied - and so all locks you had keys to would have to be changed. Work in prisons requires all sorts of checks, including making sure workmen leave with the same tools they arrived with, and so it's slow and expensive.

He's a scatter-brain. I was half expecting him to be sacked within the first couple of months.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: Fired

The prisoners undertook detailed preparations over several months, manufacturing essential tools including a steel ladder constructed from sports hall goalposts by a qualified sheet-metal worker among them, a master key replicated from memory of a prison officer's key, and a makeshift gun, while also stockpiling blank ammunition and over £200 in cash likely obtained via lax visiting procedures.

These items were created exploiting inadequate supervision in workshops and exercise areas, as well as blind spots in closed-circuit television coverage and the absence of routine searches in the noisy, under-monitored visiting hall where contraband could be passed discreetly.

Access to design technology classes further enabled crafting of components like the master key and ladders using prison materials, which were then smuggled to cells for storage.[

Further detailed details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_HM_Prison_Parkhurst_escape.

Icon - It won't take a detective much time to work out which of the escapee's I had previously worked for.

[wyatt]

Re: Fired

I did some work at a "secure facility", I asked if they ever forgot to close doors- yeah they said, happens all the time! Generally they just get closed and locked without saying anything unless they're camered up.

They'd had no escapes fortunately.

[david 12]

Re: Fired

Interesting on the prison.

Well, it was a tech job. I don't think they had any intention of giving out any keys that mattered, and certainly not a master key. I would have been inside the walls, but not in the cell blocks. A lost key would have been a couple of doors including cupboards. Expensive enough to make management angry, but not enough to blow their budget.

Prisons and "boys homes" go through cycles of security problems and incompetence, as the wardens and prisoners react to each other. This was at a time and place where the wardens weren't psychotic gang bangers, and neither were the prisoners.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fired

Quote: 'including making sure workmen leave with the same tools they arrived with'.

I had experience of that back in the early 90s whilst visiting a certain location in the North of the UK, that had a rather large ocean going vessel under construction at the time. [*]

We were only allowed to take in what was considered absolutely necessary, I wasn't allowed anything electrical or electronic, including my volt-meter (they had one that they loaned me), although they did allow me my soldering iron. Each item was logged, placed on a mat with a grid pattern and photographed (one of those Polaroid type instant cameras).

I had to walk behind an armed guard, with both hands on his shoulders, with another guard doing the same with a colleague, with instructions to keep our eyes shut, till we got to the location I'd be working in for the morning (basically a plant area at the back of a control room, with instructions that we were to stay at the back of the room, as windows at the front overlooked the main hall).

It was very obvious from the background sounds, echoes and foot steps, that the main hall we were walking through was very very big! Lots of heavy machinery, lots of people working, and we were on some sort of cat walk till we got to where we were working.

Once the job was done, we signalled to someone in the control room that we were finished (basically shouted at them from the back of the room), and then had to wait for another escort back out again, same rules.

Once back in the security office, it was empty all pockets, and all tools were laid back on the grid, and compared with the earlier photo. Thankfully nothing was different, a new photo taken, and presumably filed away somewhere!

* I just checked the dates, I left the company about 95, so looks like it was likely one of the earlier Vanguard-class subs under construction at the time!

[Rob Daglish]

Re: Fired

Sounds awfully like BAe at Barrow, one of the few places where you can sit in Morrisons and watch subs appear and disappear while you drink your coffee... and Barrow is definitely a place you dont want to look at too closely.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fired

Anon because ...

Does indeed sound a lot like "the yard". Sadly, you have to time your coffees in Morrisons well as they only leave every few years - even less frequently after ... er, best not mention that

I find AC's description a bit dubious because ... well security there has never been that good ! I can believe it happened, but there must have been some reason because it's certainly not standard practice even now. Back then was an open field compared to getting anywhere now.

But then (some) security people do seem to be a different breed to the rest of us at times - of all the people to avoid upsetting, security are top of the list since (depending on how they feel) they can make your life a lot easier (OK, let's sort that for you) or a lot harder (tough, computer says no.)

['s water music]

Re: Fired

agreed, doesn't sound like anything I experienced in the Big Shed in the early 90s. Perhaps the PP was working on a particularly sensitive system at a late stage of commissioning

[J.G.Harston]

Re: Fired

Quote: 'including making sure workmen leave with the same tools they arrived with'.

I had that when working on site at a large institution on the Lake District coast. Along with the accompanied escort past pillboxes with visible guns.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Fired

What was the violation that the first one was fired for?

[David Hicklin]

Re: Fired

> Relative of the mother of one of my friends worked printing stamps in my city. Took public transport home, and found the police waiting for him when he got home. That was it: released from duties.

Really struggling to parse this one, like the job description and why Public Transport matters....

[Yes Me]

Re: Fired

I assume public transport was so slow that "they" thought he'd called in somewhere to drop off something or other that he shouldn't have had in his possession... a kilogram of new stamps or whatever

[Neil Barnes]

My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

back in the eighties. If there was an alarm, she got called in at all speed to sort stuff out.

One occasion, the call came about three a.m. I drove her to the bank, on the other side of the city, paying not a great deal of attention to speed limits at that hour in the morning. Till a flashing blue light in the mirror, and a policeman who asked the immortal 'ok sonny, where's the bank robbery?'.

His face when I told him 'Basingstoke Road' was a picture, and even more so when he called in and the control told him, yes, really.

[PM.]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

Cool story, but methinks what your wife was supposed to do, pull a gun on robbers ? ?

[Pickle Rick]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

I say, steady on, this is Blighty! A gun? One simply insists the ne'er-do-wells "Stop!" - they know their place, and woe betide them should they ever disobey one of their betters!

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

More likely try and sell the robbers at least 3 bank services before they are allowed to leave

[Apocalypso - a cheery end to the world]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

> I say, steady on, this is Blighty! A gun? One simply insists the ne'er-do-wells "Stop!" - they know their place, and woe betide them should they ever disobey one of their betters!

Stop! Or I'll shout stop again.

[Pickle Rick]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

Yup! <3 Robin Williams, "Thank you Imelda Marcos for her earrings!" - RIP

[Korev]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

A relative was a headmaster of a school in a run-down area so they got lots of "kids" roaming the area. The cops would call him if they couldn't get hold of the caretaker and he'd have to go and check it all out by themselves. I have no idea what would have happened to caretaker or headmaster if some miscreants were still there and up to no good.

[PCScreenOnly]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

Depends on their "traffic" lights and if certain colours they can go in, otherwise need to wait for police

[Neil Barnes]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

At this distance (both from the bank and from the ex-wife) I don't recall the details. I think she was there to let the police in. Bank robberies aren't terribly common in the UK, I believe; far more likely something incorrectly triggered the alarm.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

As an anonymous ex-banker, I can tell you that banks have very specific physical security plans which lay out exactly who may enter which parts of a branch, when, with whom, and with what, after an alarm activation. No details for obvious reasons, but there's more than one way to rob a bank.

Fortunately I was never in a position to be entrusted with any bank keys, which is just as well as in a previous life I once lost the very substantial bunch of keys to an entire secondary school.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

As an anonymous ex-banker robber, I can tell you banks have very specific plans about who may enter.

But a ford transit and a sawn-off shotgun will work

[Slow Joe Crow]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

From my experience in the US during the savings and loan crisis, the most effective to way to rob a bank is to own it. The people at the top of several failed banks walked away with lots of money and no criminal charges while the government was left holding the bag.

[dmesg]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

A friend of mine was living in NYC at the time and knew a number of people working in Wall Street firms. He reported that after the bailout they all shook their heads in wonder, saying "I can't believe we got away with it."

[John Robson]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

On the basis that police dispatch already knew I rather suspect that the police were also automatically called, and her role would have been assistance.

[Rtbcomp]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

My late father was a keyholder at a bank and on the few occasions he was called out the police insisted he opened the door and went inside ahead of the officers.

On one occasion he and group of friends were on a night out and at about midnight they were on their way home and one one the group decided he needed the loo. "No problem said Dad, I'll open the bank and you can use the toilet there" Unfortunately they were spotted by the local bobby (it was in the 1960s) and there were questions to answer.

[Pickle Rick]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

> ...there were questions to answer.

"How will you be donating to the Policeman's Ball?"

Top story :)

[UCAP]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

"... Policeman's Ball ...

Its a raffle, not a dance.

[Phil O'Sophical]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

What would you do with it if you won it?

[PRR]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

> "How will you be donating to the Policeman's Ball?"

Friend of a friend was stopped by our State Police. Hoped to buy his way out of trouble. "Can I buy tickets to the Police Ball?" reply: "State Police don't have balls"; dead stop as everybody realized what had been said and how it would sound in Magistrate's Court and the newspaper police sheet. Nothing more was said.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

I used to work in my town centre, right opposite the station. Not a bank, and no fancy alarms, but I did have the keys. It was incredibly convenient, on the way back from London, or at 2am coming out of the local pub, to be able to pop into the office for a toilet break or a packet of crisps (from the supply in my desk) to munch on the way home. Also, if I there was sudden rain, I kept a spare umbrella there as well.

Sadly we're now in an anonymous business park on the edge of town, most inconvenient.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

A online former friend used to have to go deal with alarm triggers in bank lobby's out in eastern Canada (NS, Halifax or PEI), usually homeless people.

I was working in a bank replacing a server in the dead of night, heard a noise rattling of the security lattice & shouts (Which I had been hearing throughout the night as howls of complaint as the ATM was down) I shouted back the servers down or some such, next thing I know a Brinks guard (Weapon not drawn - TG I'm in Canada) is standing over me enquiring what I'm doing (They should have been informed & there were penalties to be paid by the bank if Brinks made us leave the building in the middle of our work).

[Mattjimf]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

I used to work at the local video rental shop, and had to open and close the store (more close than open), so had a key and the alarm code. It wasn't uncommon for me to frequent on the bank holidays and take a couple of films or games when the store wouldn't be open for a couple of days.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

"His face when I told him 'Basingstoke Road' was a picture, and even more so when he called in and the control told him, yes, really."

Nice, but did you still get done for speeding? No blue lights means no free pass on rules of the road.

[jfm]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

Blue lights also aren't a free pass (in UK) unless the rules have changed since I emigrated — they indicate to other road users that you're an emergency vehicle and might be breaking the rules, but there've been several instances of fire engines being ticketed by Plod for running red lights with their blues and twos going.

[Rob Daglish]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

I did once manage to cause a police presence at a bank i was working in. I'd been asked by their help desk to hoover the PCs out as the staff were complaining they were running slowly and very noisy - the thinking from the helldesk was that they were clogged up with fluff and dirt, whereas in reality, they were just not very good PCs...

Anyways, one had a little walkie-talkie style box on top, which i moved to open the lids of the PC. I dutifully started hoovering, and fairly shortly my escort said there were a lot of police sirens going past today. I jokingly replied that it cant have been for me, my bail conditions have been lifted. About 2 minutes later, the biggest hulk of a man I've seen pops his head round the door to see if everything is OK, because it turns out that walkie-talkie was a panic alarm trigger that was faulty and waiting for repair as it's firing whenever its moved.

Ooops.

They were very good about it, and although there were threats to invoice my employer for the wasted time, I dont think we ever got a bill for it, and the staff were incredibly reassured how quickly Plod could get there when needed!

[David Hicklin]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

> because it turns out that walkie-talkie was a panic alarm

At one place I worked at on a trading estate the reception desk had a panic button (put in my the previous occupiers for some reason) and the number of times the police came screaming up when someone accidentally knocked it (it was a sitting knee height) became embarrassing.

I think it was disabled eventually especially when reception became unmanned with just a phone and list of numbers to ring! The phone lines were all direct and the main phone number had one of the first bloody awful multiple choice automatic answering services

[I could be a dog really]

Re: My wife was a keyholder at a bank branch

Indeed, they have very detailed rules about what is and isn't allowed - definitely not a cart blanche to ignore all traffic laws.

Incidentally, a lot fo emergency vehicles started getting speeding tickets due to the combination of speed cameras and LED "blue lights". Unlike the older rotating beacons, the LED flashing lights are off for a lot fo the time, so if the speed camera happens to snap when they are off, it looks like the vehicle is speeding when not having it's blue lights on - cue referencing logs to see if it was actually on a shout and whether the driver gets in trouble.

If you look now, they usually have a small static blue LED near the rear number plate to make it easy to see from the pictures.

But back to being a keyholder ...

With a previous work hat, I was a keyholder for a medium sized business. In part it was to make it easy doing out of hours IT work, but it also meant I was on the call out list - or rather lists as the site was large enough to be zoned and different call out lists depending on which zone had triggered a fire or intruder alarm. Mostly it wasn't a hassle, but one time I called out to a fire alarm in the factory - I was well down the list, but those above me were unable to attend (ill, been drinking so couldn't drive, whatever). A bit embarrassing to be honest - I didn't have keys to the front gate (had it been a real alarm, the fire people could have quickly dealt with that), and I didn't have keys to the factory. I could get into the offices and see from the panel where the alarm originated - but it was a while before I remembered where there was a set of keys I could access. Strange walking into a dark and empty factory that I'd only ever seen when bustling with activity.

[Mishak]

Fire engine

I was nearly wiped out by one running a red light at a junction.

It was 2 am, and it didn't have its blue lights on.

[Mishak]

Brother

I remember an incident from when I was young where my brother (probably about 2) fell into a bath of scolding water.

Dad decided it would be quicker to get him to hospital if he drove, so we set off at speed and ran red lights where it was safe to do so.

Plod noticed and he was (rightly) stopped - at which point we were given a blue light escort to the hospital (and no ticket).

[Ochib]

Could be worse

You could have shown a copy of the key on Nation television

https://www.factnest.net/on-air-security-failure-how-prison-keys-cost-a-tv-channel-300000/

[A Non e-mouse]

Re: Could be worse

I think there have been several instances of this over the years.

[J P]

Re: Could be worse

One of my uncles was a vicar, and spent some time as a prison chaplain in the 1970s. First thing they told him was "never take your keys out". They had inmates who could cut a copy from memory based on simply seeing them.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: Could be worse

Can confirm that's true (Ex-Boss still incarcerated).

Icon - Where's me keys!

[FeRDNYC]

Re: Could be worse

There have, including someone once flashing images of the TSA's master luggage keys. OOPS.

[notyetanotherid]

Re: Could be worse

... I think that secret has long been out as they are readily available for sale on e.g. ebay.

[spuck]

Re: Could be worse

Or by anyone who could buy a luggage lock and take it apart to see what shape the key should be to open the TSA side... a great system, all the way around.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Could be worse

I'd have thought it was the fault of whoever exposed the keys to the camera.

[Claptrap314]

Re: Could be worse

whynotboth.jpg?

[A Non e-mouse]

My place isn't a bank or anything special, but any keys to store & machine rooms have huge key fobs on them so you can't even put the key in a pocket. (We often use blanking plates from switches/routers)

A more high-tech solution is to have fancy tags on the keys with sensors at the building entrance so you can't take them out without an alarm going off.

[Blofeld's Cat]

I worked on a site where the switch room key had a 20kg collection of steel plates as the "tag". The key was attached by a metre of equally impressive chain, so you could put the tag on the floor while working the lock.

Apparently they added another 1kg to the tag every time somebody took it off site.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Last time I stayed in a hotel with physical keys, back when that was a thing 30 years ago - You were supposed to leave your keys at reception when you left and pick them up when you came back, so they didn't leave the site. The keyring was a spiky iron ball about 2" across, that could be quite an effective weapon on a mediaeval battlefield, if you just stuck a bit of chain on it and fixed it to the top of a wooden handle.

[GlenP]

We stopped at a farm B&B in Yorkshire, the key fobs were nose rings for bulls! We didn't inquire whether they'd ever been used or not.

Not too large to carry fortunately as we needed the keys when arriving back late.

[NXM]

what a load of bull

Was the 1000kg bull still attached? You'd struggle to put that in the car, never mind your pocket.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: what a load of bull

Obg. "Hear My Song" reference goes here

[PRR]

> a hotel .... You were supposed to leave your keys at reception when you left and pick them up when you came back, so they didn't leave the site.

The 1930s and 1940s novels I read, that happens all the time. I just missed that era so it seems strange to me. The clerk always knew who was in or out, which sometimes was a plot point. When I started using motels they had a fob with postage guarantee so you could drop in any mailbox. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/seEAAeSw6GdpD-C3/s-l500.webp

[C R Mudgeon]

"You were supposed to leave your keys at reception when you left and pick them up when you came back, so they didn't leave the site."

I stayed at such a place in Frankfurt am Main in the mid-80s. The fob loosely resembled a miniature bowling pin. It had a rubber bumper around its widest point, presumably so it wouldn't mark up the door while one was fumbling with the key.

[Andy Taylor]

Now I am wondering who managed to take a 19kg keyfob home with them.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Probably my mate Shermie..

For context he carried a reinforced box of hard drives that contained about 150 pieces of wiped desktop HDD's (Spinning Rust).

[Terry 6]

Back in Olden Times*(TM) hotel room keys were often on enormous key holders. The idea being that you didn't pop them in your pocket, but handed them in to the desk when not in use. And so they couldn't be lost. I did prefer that to the modern bits of silly plastic tbh.

*A couple of decades ago

[steviebuk]

Like the old cafes with the bathroom out the back. And the film Ghost Town having a massive fake tooth on the keyring for the bathroom.

[Andy A]

On one project in the late 70s I needed after-hours access to the customer's art deco office block. The door KEY, not the tag, stuck out past my jacket lapel when put in my inside pocket.

[Sam not the Viking]

The Key to Everything

Our Sales Director used to go everywhere with his bunch of keys, carrying every key: House (front, back, garage, shed, gate), car (his & hers) (and car keys are not small), work (gates, two offices, workshop, test area) plus several smaller keys for luggage, padlocks, bicycles, etc. all culminating in a fist-sized melee. This conglomeration was far too big to fit in a pocket so he carried them around as a sort of symbol-of-office. You could hear him moving about the building clanking like the ghostly gaoler.

He's never likely to lose this mess but if he did, it would have deep consequences.

On the other hand, we never gave an off-site key to him because he would lose it. His 'work keys' were mostly out of date because we changed entry/exit processes but as he was always late in, and never locked-up, it didn't matter......

[PCScreenOnly]

Re: The Key to Everything

Misses does nearly the same (except for the car - mine). I now have all hers on quick release clips as the amount of times I got "can I have your front door keys?" as she does not want to take all of hers.

I don't get why she wants all the keys - boggles my brain.

I also worked with someone years ago who had quite a big bunch of keys too. He stopped when his car (merc) had ignition problems and it was blamed on the weight of the keys inside the ingition fob wesring it down (sounds iffy to me). cost him a fair packet to get that sorted. He stopped after that

[KittenHuffer]

Re: The Key to Everything

Get one of these!

They're the best quick release key system I've ever found.

I'm on my second one now, as two decades of use wore the first one out!

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: The Key to Everything

What - one of all of them?

[David Hicklin]

Re: The Key to Everything

> What - one of all of them?

That's the key to the key cabinet

Usually hanging on a hook beside it.

[david 12]

Re: The Key to Everything

You don't see them much any more, but 50-100 years ago a "key case" used to be common. Easy to take keys out of, protects your pocket, and sits flat in your pocket.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ashford-Ridge-Leather-Holder-Colours/dp/B00EV2Y7L6

[C R Mudgeon]

Re: The Key to Everything

For my simpler needs, I swear by these. Car key on one ring, everything else on the other. When I take the car in to have work done, it's easy to detach its key fob. And if I'm going out and won't be driving, it's equally easy to almost halve the bulk in my pocket.

Each ring has an ID tag -- the smallest (and cheapest, but *smallest* was the deciding factor) laser-etched dog tag from PetSmart, with only my phone number on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Key to Everything

Yes, this ones true. I'm quite surprised it happened on a Merc though. The barrel wears out

[Already?]

Re: The Key to Everything

As a youth I knew a few people in the motor trade and can confirm - or at least they would - that hanging a big bunch of keys from the ignition isn’t conducive to its long life or consistent satisfactory functionality. Ignition barrels aren’t designed to support the weight of a load of metal swinging randomly in all directions so it’s hardly a surprise when it does fail.

My brother (bless im, but he’ll never see this) is guilty of carrying every key he’s ever likely to use hanging from his car key. It makes me cringe.

[RobDog]

Re: The Key to Everything

Your mechanics had good judgement, here’s why

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls

[Potty Professor]

Re: The Key to Everything

My keyring has only two keys attached to it, the car key and my house key. I replaced all four of the locks in the house when I moved in with a set of "Keyed alike" Euro barrels, and subsequently added two Keyed alike Yale locks to the shed and garage, so now one key fits all. The keyfob itself is a transparent plastic jobbie containing two barcodes, one for Nectar and the other for Morrisons' More card, scanned and reprinted using some free barcode printing software.

[I could be a dog really]

Re: The Key to Everything

+1 for the keyed-alike option. So many people still haven't realised you can replace the euro cylinder at all.

When we last moved, I bought a new cylinder for the front door, and took our old one with us. SWMBO was asking when I'd be handing out new keys and was puzzled when I said we didn't need to as we were keeping the same key !

And then you get options like master keys/suited locks where different keys can operate different sets of doors - so you could have a key that gets into the house but not the shed (keep the kids away from the tools !) or vice-versa.

[David Nash]

Re: The Key to Everything

makes sense to me - if you have all your keys together you just have one thing to remember where it is-- "my keys", rather than "where's the car key?", "Where's the house key?". "Where's the shed key?" "Where's the key to my desk drawer?"

[Already?]

Re: The Key to Everything

All keys together in one place? Nah.

Consistent placement is errrr…. key. House key goes with car key and lives on the bookcase just inside the living room or in the front door overnight. That’s coming and going sorted. Back door key lives by the back door, other generic back of house keys like conservatory, garage, shed, other back door and patio keys are on a hook in the kitchen and have been for 20+ years except when in use. Always where we expect them to be and always available to whoever needs them without waiting for someone to come home.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: The Key to Everything

I have truck keys, mailbox key, various work keys etc all on one keyring that I use during the normal workdays.

Evenings & weekends & I use a second set of keys for Truck, house keys only.

Ohh I did actually replace the truck's ignition switch a few years back, for a different electrical issue that I can't quite recall what it was.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: The Key to Everything

Ref hanging car keys on front door overnight, that's fine if your car isn't desirable enough to attract car thieves AND doesn't have (enabled) keyless entry. If it is AND does, then a Faraday cage away from the side of the house nearest where the car is parked is the basic first step to not finding it gone in the morning. A good quality steering wheel clamp would be step two. Relay theft is a real problem.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: The Key to Everything

Excessively heavy key bunches wearing out ignition locks is absolutely a thing. How much is excessive obviously varies with the quality of the lock, & is much less commonly seen in these days of keyless entry etc.

One reason why Saabs having the ignition lock on the floor between the seats was a good idea, though the tendency for the locks to fill up with fluff & dirt (until they put them on a little pedestal) somewhat negated the benefit.)

[RobDog]

Re: The Key to Everything

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls

[David Hicklin]

Re: The Key to Everything

> weight of the keys inside the ingition fob wesring it down

It would put unexpected repetitive strain on the mechanism

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The Key to Everything

He's never likely to lose this mess

My work keys consist of a couple of door keys and some panel keys. Not a lot and quite easy to put down and forget or to drop without realising (holes in trouser pockets for example). I bulked the bunch up with a load of old house keys, padlock keys and such none of which are any use as the things they locked and unlocked are long since gone but they add heft and noise if you drop the collection.

Well ok at least two of them are for old 5.25" floppy disc boxes I still have. The one which opens the very first box I ever bought (circa 1985) actually works quite well on some electrical cabinets. Must get around to converting those old AMX Pagemaker / Stop Press BBC floppies to standard bitmaps one day.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Back in the mid to late 80's, I worked evenings in a video library in the centre of town.

Most evenings, my last customers were this old couple who pushed a couple of hoovers into the corner of the shop and dropped a heavy backpack on the floor next to the hoovers while they browseed.

That couple cleaned almost every bank in the town centre, and that backpack held all the bank keys.

[dmesg]

If you want to succeed at a revolution, get the secretaries and janitors on side. The secretaries know how everything *really* works, and where the bodies are buried. The janitors have all the keys.

[Recluse]

As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Many years ago (when I was but a whippersnapper) I worked in the urban branch of one of the big mainstream clearing banks.

Arriving one morning I was greeted by the Assistant Manager (AM) who complained of having his sleep disturbed overnight and recounted the following tale.

Early morning phone call received from alarm monitoring company to report of an alarm activation at the branch. As per procedure he rang the Police to arrange to be accompanied onto the premises to investigate.

Before proceeding I should flesh out the scene. Typically at the end of the working day, once the cash is locked in the main safe, the secure internal doors (in my time double air lock doors were utilised) are unlocked to allow the likes of a cleaner full unrestricted access to the branch. Whilst there are attack alarms available for use during the day, overnight the only thing alarmed are secure safes.

This particular branch had an external ATM machine but the back of it abutted inside the normally secure area of the branch. To visually neaten things up (as banks are want to do) it was boxed in with some nice mahogany wood with hinged doors to the rear to allow for the loading of cash etc. Obviously these doors were only opened when restocking (which only took place after the branch closed - it was that long ago that branches used to shut at 15:30 (whereas these days, they are just permanently shut!)

The Police and AM entered via the front door into the banking hall. All was quiet. However as they moved into the (currently open) secure area they noted that a number of drawers associated with the cash tills had been forced. This was needless destruction as although locked shut any (low value) coin float was held in a small safe under each respective till (subsequently, as a matter of policy, branches were instructed to leave the drawers open overnight)

They then noticed that the wooden cabinet doors around the ATM had been forced displaying the (substantial safe enclosure containing the ATM’s cash cartridges and workings) I cannot believe that the burglars (I can’t bring myself to call them bank robbers) expected to see a nice pile of stacked notes waiting to be pocketed.

They adjourned to the stairwell (it was a 3 story building) and by the rear fire door noted a smashed window (it must have taken some effort to break as was reinforced glass) and agreed this was obviously the means of entry.

As they ascended the staircase the sound of hammering could be heard coming from the machine room and lo and behold the Police caught three burglars in the act forcing the locks on various storage cabinets.

The burglars mistake (apart from rashly assuming the ATM cash would be readily available was not to notice the associated alarm cabling and reed switches on the ATM wooden cabinet.

So quite an exciting morning for the AM.

Of course banking was rarely this exciting, although it does bring to mind another occasion where a nameless person (cough) when restocking an ATM managed to stack the Twenty pound notes in the Ten pound note container and vice versa. Obviously this didn’t go unnoticed for long as customers were swiftly at the counter complaining they had asked for £20 and only received £10. That said it was observed in only a few minutes some who had asked for £10 and received £20 had been back for multiple withdrawals.

Thank goodness for journal rolls, albeit it was rather inconvenient having to raise manual debits to customer accounts to retrieve the funds.

[Korev]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

> Obviously this didn’t go unnoted for long as customers were swiftly at the counter complaining they had asked for £20 and only received £10.

FTFY

[Martin an gof]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

In the UK, notes have been different sizes for some time. Were the cartridges or the selection mechanism not keyed to the size of note?

M.

[Recluse]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

As I recall (it was a long time ago - we are probably talking 1980’s) the cartridges were identical and the notes stacked end on - there may have been a label on the outside, but I don’t recall them being keyed in any way, with the ATM I believe programmed to expect certain domination from specific drawers.

[Wally Dug]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Yes, from my own memory and particular bank experience, the denominations of each cassette/drawer were set within the ATM software by Head Office.

[C R Mudgeon]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

"In the UK, notes have been different sizes for some time."

When did that begin? I believe it was already the case on my first visit in 1984 (as it also was in pre-Euro West Germany at that time).

[Martin an gof]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Not entirely certain when it was formalised, but there have always been different sizes of note, especially from different issuing banks. I'd imagine that the formalisation of sizes started post-WWII at the latest and possibly well before then. Current "plastic" notes also have raised dots to aid identification, but I don't know how well those last! I remember finding it odd as a child that the US would have notes all the same size and shape.

M.

[Wally Dug]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

And, of course, as well as different sizes of notes, different denominations have got different colours - £1 (no longer issued by any UK bank) green, £5 blue, £10 brown, £20 purple, £50 gold, £100 (Scottish banks) pink.

[Already?]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Blimey your mention of journal rolls has just triggered a long buried memory. My last proper job with a prev employer involved electronically scanning 3000 journal rolls from a well known bank, to identify failed withdrawals - i.e. those where the customer failed to take the cash just requested within the allotted time so the atm pulls it back in and records it on the roll. I foolishly imagined that we’d find a handful, forgetting the stupidity of the average person. There were hundreds of them, each one needing to be correctly identified and forwarded to the bank. This was a few years ago, the scanning software was very good, so were the Heath Robinson roller feeds that Facilities knocked up to make the mechanical aspect of the job workable.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

It's why the ATM gives you your card back first, then the cash. You might walk off without your card but you aren't going to forget the cash, are you?

[Already?]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

The assumption is that you won’t forget your cash, and anyway losing £50 is better than losing your bank card esp these days with contactless payments. But…

The word was that people do easily forget. Wait long enough, card out and into wallet or pocket, mentally that’s job done and off you go. Or you’re midway through a withdrawal and an old colleague appears and starts chatting and again before you know what’s what you’ve wandered off leaving the atm to quietly reclaim the cash. Easily done and often done judging by how many we found on the rolls.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Did see someone do that at the Natwest ATM around the corner from Paddington about 20 years ago, fortunately he realised his mistake...

[I could be a dog really]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Reminds me of a course we were on - forget what it was about. As an aside, (could have been during a bit on user interfaces) it was noted that in the early days of ATMs, there were a lot of "problems".

People would be fixated on "I'm here for cash" so when they have their cash, they forget about the card that's still sticking out of the slot. Add in kids hanging around "curious about these new fangled machines" but were really only looking to see the pin. Result, people would walk off, leave their card behind, and the kids would then help themselves before dropping the card on the floor. Hence design change - take card before you get your cash.

[Pete Sdev]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Yep, had this as an example of UI/UX design too. ATM users' goal is "get cash" not "retrieve my card".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

"those where the customer failed to take the cash just requested within the allotted time so the atm pulls it back in and records it on the roll."

I did that once, many years ago. No stupidity required (though I'm sure I'll get snarky comments to the contrary) - just absent-mindedness (aka, in my case, not yet diagnosed ADHD).

I have no idea whether the machine reclaimed the cash, or the next customer got a nice $100 surprise. The money certainly didn't get returned to my account. It was gone, and lesson learned.

Anon because *blush*

[Recluse]

Re: A little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Following on from my earlier tale (again ATM related - and attempting to answer your query) as far as I am aware there was a purge bin within the ATM so that any cash not removed within a specified time is pulled back into the machine.

If a customer complained as to non receipt this would be the first port of call - I vaguely recall that an entry was made on the journal roll, which would help substantiate any claim.

The ultimate test was to reconcile the cash held by the machine (not as mad as it sounds, as notes were inserted end on in £500 blocks (reversed and edge marked for easier counting)

ATM’s are a bit like servers and can be internally racked back on rails. Typically this would be done to allow access to replace the customer receipt roll which was located at the very front of the ATM.

When re-racking back care needed to be taken to ensure any associated electrical cabling did not obstruct the cash delivery shoot. On one memorable occasion a customer complained of non receipt and upon investigation it was found they were not the only customer so afflicted and that there was a considerable backup of notes stuck in the delivery slot.

Potentially one lucky punter (should the blockage give) may have been in line for a windfall. In such a scenario a cash reconciliation would disclose no error - the right amount of cash would have been dispensed albeit not to the correct parties.

Technology is great (when it works!)

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

Not ATM related, but bank robbery so almost justifiable.

I the early 90s I spent a couple of years working just behind Cricklewood Broadway in London, an area only notable for its substantial Irish population, & being the home of the late lamented Alan Coren.

I was told the following anecdote by several locals separately over the course of my time there, so I assume that it's true, but of course it may just be an urban myth that has gained traction.

One of the banks on the Broadway was on a corner site, and, being one of those beautiful old substantial Victorian buildings that banks & railway companies liked to build for themselves had its entrance door on the corner. A really substantial wooden door in a really substantial & prominent brick & stone surround.

This was the golden age of ram-raiding in the UK (& elsewhere possibly?) wherein scrotes would steal a car & reverse it through the front window of their chosen (usually retail) premises, thus providing both instant access without all that time-consuming breaking-in nonsense, & a ready means of carrying & escaping with the swag.

Three local lads had the bright idea that they could do the same to this bank, as the beautiful double doors were plenty wide enough to admit a car. To that end they stole a Ford Escort estate & welded a very substantial length of RSJ across the width of it just inside the tailgate, & another along the length of the boot floor all the way up to the front seats, making a capital T shape.

They then, in the wee small hours when all respectable members of the citizenry were abed, reversed the poor escort into the doors at quite high speed with, apparently, remarkable accuracy.

And there it sat when the police arrived a little while later, hard up against the implacable doors, with the driver still inside, clutching his neck. Their big mistake was in not "casing the joint" (as I believe the thieving classes refer to it) properly, or indeed at all, before the attempt, for if they had they'd have seen that the corner doors had been bricked up properly on the inside several decades prior, and that a small side entrance was now the one in use.

[Potty Professor]

Re: As little tale from my former banking life .. (tenuous ATM connection)

I owned a 1959 Chevrolet Parkwood Estate, the one with the huge fins along the side, when I was a poor student (it only cost me £150). One night it was stolen, so I reported it to Mr. Plod and borrowed my mother's 100E to get back and forth to college. Some days later, there was a knock at the door of my parent's flat, and the biggest policeman I have ever seen eased his way through the doorway. He demanded to know where I had been late the previous evening, and my parents assured him that I was there watching TV with them. He then explained that "my" car had been used in a ram raid on a jewellers' supplies shop in Clerkenwell (London), and had demolished the entire front of the building, crushing the poor Chevy under tons of masonry. I asked if I could have the car back to rebuild it, but was told that they had to retain it as evedence, and it was scrapped soon after.

[Anonymous Coward]

Only obtusely connected to the story

My daughter started University in September last year in a large metropolitan area. As we moved her into the multi-storey accommodation block she looked out of the window and shrieked that someone was being killed in the building next door.

Being rather calmer, I took a slightly closer look and thought the perpetrators in the next door tower block looked like Police Officers.

Time to put my glasses on and watch a Police Officer having a little trouble with her dressed, full body, "Resus Annie" and a group (presumably she was supposed to teach) making (less than helpful) gestures and pulls on the clothing. When I looked out later the "perpetrator" was sitting on "Annie's" chest with her hands around the dummy's neck in a strangulation pose for some time - I assume demonstrating the affect on voice-box depression or similar.

I'm not sure if my daughter actually feels safer being billeted next door to a major Police Office.

[Anonymous Coward]

Prison keys

If you Google ‘prison key replacement costs’, it gets flipping expensive when keys get lost / stolen / misplaced/ filmed…

[Insert sadsack pun here]

Re: Prison keys

If I Google "prison key replacement costs" it's going to look very suspicious!

[Marty McFly]

School district master key

Many decades ago my father was the principal of a primary school and carried a large wad of keys. After some budget cuts & peers retired, and he ended up with a second primary school under his purview, so the district gave him a single master key to replace what would have been a 2nd large wad of keys.

A couple years later, a mental breakdown occurred, and my father left education. The district never reclaimed the master key. It hung on a nail over the workbench out in the garage.

A few more years passed and a certain high school senior got curious. Sure enough, the key still worked! This was before the days of cameras everywhere and motion sensing alarms, and when a harmless 'Senior Prank' could be laughed at. There might have been a midnight mission or two, so I'll just end the story there.

I now have that same workbench. And for posterity, the key is still with it. Cheers to innocent days!

[david 12]

Re: School district master key

The district never reclaimed the master key. It hung on a nail over the workbench out in the garage.

Friend at school had lived in a small "electricity generation and mine" town. When they moved in, found a set of key on top of the refrigerator. Not high security, but let them into every gate around the power plant and around the mine.

[Paul Hovnanian]

About those ...

... missile launch codes: Sorry. My bad.

Seriously. Why don't they install captive key locks. Can't pull the key out until the lock is turned back to the secured position. And then attach a big item to the keyring (one shop I know uses Cresent wrenches for the restroom key) so absentmindedly pocketing them is nigh on impossible

[midgepad]

Re: About those ...

Hmm. Turn key, go in. Key remains outside. Get locked in. Key now departs. Am I missing something?

[Autonomous Mallard]

Re: About those ...

Yes, fire codes: https://legalclarity.org/what-is-the-fire-code-regarding-locked-doors/

Banks are not exempted. Alarms might go off, but you will not be physically locked in. The only exceptions are memory care facilities and correctional institutions.

[PRR]

Naomi Wu had a Youtube showing software to read key-cuts from fairly casual photos.

[RMclan]

Timpsons, the company with shoe repair and key cutting shops all over the UK now have automated key cutting machines in some supermarkets. You place your key in a slot under a camera and if they have the right blanks in the machine you have a duplicated key less than 5 minutes later. I got a slightly worn front door Yale type key copied in one machine and the copy actually works better than the original because there's no wear on the 'teeth'.

[PRR]

"Why You Should Never Post Pictures of Your Keys Online!"

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H6wtn_rrxgc?feature=share

[steviebuk]

ex engineer

decided to have a bit of a carrier change and worked the van collecting the money from the machines (he gave it up when they started requesting long stupid drives near end of shift).

He got to one cash machine that had just been robbed with the police hanging round. Again, another reason to leave the job as he called his manager who said "I don't care if the police are there just get the money from the machine". Erm, no, its a crime scene you fuck whit.

[Dave Null]

Not me, but

I work for a very large hyperscaler. The physical keys for DCs have GPS tracking as well as RFID alerts on external exits and are automatically blocklisted if they leave the facility, which also kicks off a "what the hell is someone doing?" audit workflow.

[Anonymous Coward]

I accidentally broke into a bank

In the early 90's I had spent a large amount of time upgrading control systems in a high rise in a large city.

I knew my way around the mechanical rooms and the building quite well and was friendly with all the building management staff.

A few years later I was sent back to do some work for a half day and while I was there I went through a hatch that we used previously to get into an area with some equipment.

I noted that it looked more like an office area than it had previously, so I quickly left.

At lunch the building manager mentioned that he had spent the last two hours talking to the cops and getting shit on by the bank manager from the alarm that I had set off in the bank by opening the hatch in the back. Oops.

I profusely apologised, but he was not really thaaat mad at me and knew that we used to use the hatch all the time in the past and there was no lock or warning on it.

I hope they put a sign on it at least after that.

[J.G.Harston]

Re: I accidentally broke into a bank

Beware of the leopard?