UK to spend £23M on AI to tell benefit claimants where to go

The UK's Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) is set to introduce a conversational AI platform it hopes will steer calls from citizens with queries about their benefits. The contract is worth up to £23 million. The move is part of the government's ambition to improve efficiency with AI across the public sector and manage …

[Bebu sa Ware]

"to tell benefit claimants where to go"…

This AI bucket of slop will undoubtedly be named after the fabled destination of "Buggaree" ?

[AVR]

'personalised call deflection'

That's a phrase to make your blood run cold. An AI which is told to give you the runaround could be more frustrating than the most determinedly stupid call centre operator, and that's saying something.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: 'personalised call deflection'

Given that no-one, MPS included, likes being confronted by a wall of gormless AIs why would they think claimants will like it? People who are already stressed and often in challenging positions could be pushed over the edge by this kind of thing, the whole system already does it's best to make you feel like worthless crap... or perhaps that's the point?

[ITMA]

Re: 'personalised call deflection'

Reminds me of ye olde days of Job Centres and (as it was then) the DHSS.

Job Centres were universally known as "The Joke Shop" because most of the "job cards" on display were, well, jokes.

And the DHSS was the "Fun Factory" for all the fun and games that you experienced when having to visit them to sort out a benefit claim.

[CountCadaver]

Re: 'personalised call deflection'

The ultimate in "computer says no" and hangs up

Automatically logging your number and attempts to call, transcribing all your calls, voice stress, phrasing, asking leading questions to collect the answers the DWP wants to deny your claim or start a court action against you, where the court will be assured (like Horizon) that the computer system is wholly accurate and utterly infallible, and if any comment about horizon is made, this will be brushed aside as being nonsense (and whoever is in charge will pass a law preventing it's accuracy from being disputed and courts to be required to consider it as wholly accurate)

Where if you call more than once you CLEARLY are lying, malingering and swindling the state as you CLEARLY are fit for work, likewise if you keep your cool then you lose, lose your temper - unacceptable conduct, claim terminated and police sent round and.again you lose.

[Phil O'Sophical]

They still don't get it

Government departments, like so many businesses, still haven't worked out that the only reason people are willing to endure the misery of trying to call them by phone is because they haven't been able to get the information they need through the automated website or chatbot. Hanging AI on the end of the phone isn't going to fix that.

[Headley_Grange]

Re: They still don't get it

They worked it out years ago and hanging an AI on the end of the phone is aimed at fixing it for them, not the poor bloody users.

[Joe W]

Re: They still don't get it

That. And getting a constant reminder that "you can do this online" when you tried and and failed several times is just the insulting. And if you are lucky and get a human on the phone and they tell you again that you can do this online is just insulting.

Now add A1 to it...

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: They still don't get it

"you can do this online"

The real gem of that line is delivered by Northern Powergrid when I call to report yet another power cut whose first consequence was o bring down the router (and the DECT phone which is why I still have a POTS phone as well).

[LucreLout]

Re: They still don't get it

The other thing they don't get is that the primary use case of AI in the public sector is to make efficiencies in the back office operations, slashing the 20 deep hierarchies of middle managers, coordinators, and administrators.

Public facing operations should only come post back office efficiency gains.

The number of staff generating reports and updates that only exist to feed other reports and updates a tier up the hierarchy is insane and adds negative value to delivery.

[JohnMurray]

If...

it's anything like vodafones AI assistant, you'll type questions and eventually end up back at the start, with no answers........

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: If...

it's anything like vodafones anybody's AI assistant, you'll type questions and eventually end up back at the start, with no answers........

[SomeRandom1]

Waste of money

The people they employ cannot help with queries, what makes them think AI can do any better? Surely the AI is being trained on the existing interactions.

Yet another massive tax-payer funded waste.

[Aladdin Sane]

Re: Waste of money

The people who work these lines aren't usually paid enough to give a fuck.

[CountCadaver]

Re: Waste of money

No this AI is being trained on USA Medical insurers standard operating procedure - deny all claims, along with the policies promoted by the "centre for social justice" aka IDS's lot as well as tabloid stories about benefit fraud - so the AI KNOWS that all callers are lying and trying to deceive it for their own benefit.....

[amanfromMars 1]

Three Cheers for the UKDWP... Hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray

And there you have it, El Regers, ....

UK to spend £23M on AI to tell benefit claimants where to go

.... proof positive in deed indeed, if ever it be needed, of the UK's acceptance of AI leadership ...... and just in time too whenever one considers the dire decades of sub-prime Prime Ministerial Cabinet Collegiate leadership before it as any sort of viable attractive future alternative.

Finally, a SMARTR move in a vast ocean and blind see of incompetent executive operatives.

And what are those two sentences clear enough examples of ........ comedy, farce, sarcasm, wit, foresight, despair, optimism, support ?????

[nobody who matters]

Re: Three Cheers for the UKDWP... Hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray

"And what are those two sentences clear enough examples of ........ "

As anyone who has had the misfortune to have to attend a Job Centre or make a claim for any kind of benefits, the civil servants currently employed to process your application are there primarily as a wall to prevent claimants from accessing any benefits. I have had first hand experience of this on more than one occasion. Any idea that the DWP and its staff are there to give any help or assistance to those trying to claim is misplaced.

From what has become apparent about 'AI' chatbot customer services elsewhere, I would expect preventing potential claimants from submitting their claim is a task that they will do very well :(

[Doctor Syntax]

Run by DWP? What could poooosssssiiiibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they could award the contract to Crapita or Fushitesu?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if the DWP ran deathcamps then they would either kill no one or kill everyone in the world based on their track record.

Their attitude to the courts is one of "How DARE you question and override our decisions and policies" alongside wilfully destroying evidence of malfeasance

[I am David Jones]

"This should enhance the citizen experience”

Yeeeesssss…

[Steve Davies 3]

How hards can it be to...

Tell the claimants (in 99 different languages and dialects) to FSCK off?

Plus... you don't need no AI shit to do that job.

To the un(civil) servants who proposed this --->>> see ICON

[IGotOut]

I imagine it now...

"You need to go online, create an account and verify your identity"

And if that fails?

"You need to go online, create an account, verify your ID and create child pron whilst eating pizza with glue on it you stupid fucking transgender immigrant".

"Was this answer helpful?"

[TimMaher]

Specially trained AI…

…that can navigate its way through a ton of swear words from a frustrated UB40 owner with an Estuarian accent.

(Other accents are available).

[ComicalEngineer]

Re: Specially trained AI…

Former colleague of mine has a thick Birmingham accent.

Listening to him talk to a chatbot was endlessly amusing.

Last time I had to contact HMRC the chatbot was useless and it took me 45 minutes on hold to speak to a human for a simple question that took less than 3 minutes to answer.

AI will just cause a humungous waste of time for anyone having to use it.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Specially trained AI…

This is the whole idea of Labour government - pay more for less! As long as money flows to BlackRock owned corporations.

[neoaliphant]

Ram

It's stupid things like this that is causing our ram prices to soar

[frankyunderwood123]

Re: Ram

The price of my ram has stayed the same.

The price that new ram is being sold at has increased.

That ram isn’t mine.

Last I checked, I didn’t have any ram fabrication setup in my workshop.

[TimMaher]

Re: Ram

Yup. Sheep farming. So unpredictable.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Ram

If you lived in sheep-farming country (as I do) you would know that said animal is normally referred to as a Tup!

[BinkyTheMagicPaperclip]

Not a chance this will be any good

I have a friend who handles DWP cases - it is complex and they are paid barely above minimum wage for something that in the private sector would lead to them earning time and a half to double time if there was any justice[1].

If an experienced, intelligent person finds it difficult to handle all the minutia of benefits what chance do you think an hallucination machine has?

Plus, quite obviously, the government will not want to advertise the maximum amount of benefit anyone can possibly receive, and how they could work around the rules. Which is what people actually want to know..

The architect of Universal Credit was interviewed on Radio 4, and when asked why it didn't work properly bluntly said that the scheme was designed to need more money than the government was putting into it.

It'll still need someone to actually manage the claim, and the claim processors will still be limited by sub standard internal systems. This'll probably last until the LLM advice has serious consequences, and it gets shoved up to an MP complaint.

[1] This is my tip for anyone that needs a decent consultant. Put out an advert implicitly targeting DWP staff. Pay doesn't have to be fantastic, but you'll need to provide them a stellar pension (often a major reason people stay in the civil service). Whittle down the personable candidates, and you'll have a detail oriented employee that gets the job done. No, not all staff are great, but there are some talented people out there who'd shift given the right benefit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not a chance this will be any good

Surprised the DWP hasn't collaborated with a certain middle eastern state who eavesdrops on their allies and benefactors and has resorted to attempting to blackmail even sitting US presidents with phone recordings.....

Then watch parliamentary and judicial opposition collapse in the face of late night phone calls with consequences if they keep making noise....

[frankyunderwood123]

I’ll put money on…

… this ending up costing double the figure, released years late and being completely unfit for purpose.

It’ll be a given that the project will stall into the next parliament and will limp to completion with little to no fanfare, leaving benefit claimants in a digital black hole.

What do I base this negativity on?

History.

Every single IT project any UK government tenders has been a total clusterfuck.

[fnusnu]

It is worth noting that HMRC can't even provide an accurate tax calculator on their own website...

[Fursty Ferret]

Stupidest. Idea. Ever.

Clearly, no one at DWP has used their own helpline or that of a similar government department (lookin' at you, HMRC). At the moment they're designed to discourage callers, so giving them AI smarts in order to fob people off on an exponentially better level is not going to help.

[robot] "Why are you calling?"

> To change my registered address.

"You can do that online."

> Yes, I know, but it won't let me mak-

"Goodbye".

[hangs up]

[steviebuk]

They already tried this with a massive failure

I've said it before, it won't stop until someone dies because of this.

Last time they tried this they had to stop because the shitty AI just so "no" to anyone requesting benefits. It will take the rejections and then the people being rejected to die, before this is deemed a SHIT idea. When those people die, hopefully those consultants and managers will realise they have blood on their hands.

I, Daniel Blake but in AI form.

[steviebuk]

or you could

Spend that money or highering more staff and paying a decent fucking wage.

[nobody who matters]

Re: or you could

"highering more staff"

That sounds like a suggestion that I could support, preferably 'higher' the staff who come up with these crap ideas on the end of a rope!

[goodjudge]

Future-proofing?

This is a 4-year, possibly 6-year, project starting from 07/26. Given how fast AI has evolved in the last 6 months, the potential capabilities by next Xmas are anyone's guess, let alone 2030/32. So, what chance that the government contract will include any 'future-proofing' clauses to take advantage of technical developments, without triggering a provider "change request? that'll be £xxx squillion please" response?

[Rich 11]

Re: Future-proofing?

I do draw some small comfort from the timescale: this AI project will have collapsed in recriminations and legal challenges at just about the time when I will be claiming my state pension. Of course I might then be just one of a hundred thousand people trying to resolve any problem by calling the reinstated helpline that will probably only be manned by three knowledgeable personnel. But at least they won't be trying to turn me into a Nazi if I say the wrong thing. Probably.

[Anonymous Coward]

Total waste of money

This should be spent on flowcharting the process. Making each step well-documented in plain English (with validated translations available too).

Then a human can follow with simple questions- either answering, or marking that specific question as a point they're unsure of.

If the only way to understand your system is with an AI, you've not got a system. You've got a mess.

If we must use LLMs, then publish that flowchart- it can then be scraped by company's AIs and /they/ can pay to provide this service basically free-of-charge.

[harrys]

It'll get hacked.....

and start redirecting all peoples on PIP to dignitas

money saved, job dun

[CountCadaver]

Re: It'll get hacked.....

More like flag them for a modern day AktionT4....

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: It'll get hacked.....

That will be a feature update, not a result of hacking. They are waiting for the assisted dying bill to get through before they do that, though. Then they'll need to get some amendments through to reverse the concessions they had to make to get the bill passed in the first place.

Once that is in place, people who are old, mentally ill (or anything else the state decides) can then be encouraged towards that option. Already happening in some other countries which have similar legislation - the main function of laws like this appears to be to allow the state to get rid of people who it thinks have outlived their usefulness. Don't be taken in by the propaganda which they are using to try to justify this sort of legislation - it's very definitely not what they claim it is.

[Anonymous Coward]

We were interested in bidding for this, but as the vendor wasn't UK based were excluded. It has some very interesting insurance requirements (publicly available info) in the bid documents, I do wonder if they're expecting it to go wrong before it starts?

[Anonymous Coward]

More like to prevent "embarrassment" to the DWP (see their PIP assessor's manual for what I mean....)

[StewartWhite]

Confidential preview of the DWP's Chatbot Output

You saw it here first - output from the DWP's chatbot prototype:

Unemployed person: I'm out of work, what benefits am I entitled to?

Chatbot: None, now f*** off!

Unemployed person: Is that all you can say, I'm 64 you know.

Chatbot: Fair enough, f*** off AND die!

[RJW]

The money would be better spent on more and better trained staff.

[The Dogs Meevonks]

14 Months ago, I tried to contact the DWP to see about getting the award letter for my friends PIP, so that she could get her blue badge renewed with the council... Because the DWP had such a backlog, that they'd extended her PIP award for 12 months, but never sent her a proper award letter. So all she had was a letter that showed it had run out., and an extension letter that didn't show how much she'd been awarded. So the council wouldn't accept it as proof.

10 weeks... I tried for 10 weeks to speak to a person at the DWP, 10 weeks of sitting on the phone for 45 mins only to have them cut you off without ever actually speaking to anyone.

I got so pissed of at them, that I wrote a complaint to their local MP.... Who got the problem solved in a couple of days.

The lesson I learned from this... don't bother trying to contact the DWP, go straight to your local MP.

This same person also discovered that due to their disability that is a lifelong condition that will never improve... They have been treated appallingly for the last 15yrs. They were one of the people forced of incapacity benefits on to ESA, only to be deliberately placed in the wrong group to save the govt money... and lived in extreme poverty as a result for 5yrs with out ever getting an increase in their rate, whilst councils cut their housing benefit and increased their council tax from 15% to 25%.

The govt meanwhile lost judicial review after judicial review of their treatment of the disabled... people died as a result of this cruelty... eventually she was awarded and had that money backdated which literally saved her life as she was drowning in debt, and couldn't afford to heat her home or buy enough food.

6yrs later, they pull the same cruel stunt... this time forcing her from ESA onto Universal Credit... But the non means tested severe disability premium she gets, isn't part of UC, because that would be helping the disabled, So what they have done is top up the UC to the same level as it was inc the SDP... But they will never increase the UC for her until the UC passes what she currently gets.

Based on the pittance the UC goes up each year, it could easily take 10-12yrs before she will ever be allowed an increase in her disability....

How many more years before the govt loses judicial reviews over this... and it has to be paid back to them. How much more cruelty must the disabled be forced to endure by uncaring politicians who don't see them as human beings, but a burden on society... because they're not good little peons, salving away for their right wing billionaire paymasters.

If anyone asks me what has radicalised me... this... it's crap like this that has turned me into a raging leftie as the bigots like to call us. I care about the bottom end of society, because we are failing them and we are no longer civilised. No one needs to go hungry, unhoused or without access to healthcare anywhere on this planet... there is enough for all... The only way to do that is to burn capitalism to the ground, no more greed, no more wealth hoarding... and anyone who wants to hoard wealth should meet a fitting end.

[OldEnoughToKnowBetter-]

Treatment of the disabled by the DWP is almost criminal, but no one *ever* goes to jail (or gets demoted) for it, even after a judicial review. The DWP behave as a law unto themselves. It's been like this for decades.

[Judge Mental]

Absolute Idiots