Venezuela loses president, but gains empty Starlink internet offer

The US just invaded your country, kidnapped your president, and wants to take your oil. But good news, Venezuelans, Starlink claims you can get a month of free Internet, even though it doesn't say how that could work in a place where it doesn't offer service. Starlink added a page to its Help Center on Sunday detailing its …

[Doctor Syntax]

Maybe it's for CIA assets in the country.

[Dan 55]

Some things never change.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a trap

"may cause your service to be restricted immediately," right there for all to read.

[trevorde]

Limited time offer from Tesla

Free Optimus Robot* for every household in Venezuela during the month of February!

* subject to availability

[Jamesit]

Re: Limited time offer from Tesla

Will they use Prime for delivery?

[IGotOut]

Checks day...

Yup it's got a Y in it, so the worlds biggest attention whore needed to say something otherwise his ego will implode.

[Dan 55]

Re: Checks day...

The old man's psychopathic enough to start WW3 to divert attention from those Epstein files.

[Excused Boots]

Re: Checks day...

I think possibly second biggest attention whore; only surprised by the current incumbent of 1600!

[chololennon]

Yankees go home

Here we go again... the Yanks doing what they do the best (in my beloved LATAM), pure colonialism and robbery. Free Starlink, really? metanselo en el ojete lpmqlp.

[Gary Stewart]

Re: Yankees go home

As a "yank" in Texas, love that apparent but not actual contradiction, I'd like to second that remark. Of course we learned from the best ;). As far as I know none of our (within a limited range of our) attempts at bringing several Central/South American nations as well as several other nations around the world to heel has worked out well for the people in those nations. What was that definition of insanity again?

[LJFox]

Re: Yankees go home

I think you're both right *and* wrong. It's never done anything for the _people_ in those countries. For US and US-adjacent business, it's worked wonders

[Gary Stewart]

Re: Yankees go home

You need to reread my reply. I did not say it did anything FOR those people. In fact I said the exact opposite!

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Yankees go home

I think they understand that- the implication was that benefitting the people actually living there was never the point in the first place.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Yankees go home

Who gives a fuck about the people? It's oil, diamonds, precious/rare metals and such. A democracy run by bad people is just as bad as a dictatorship. Not that USofA is a democracy anymore, but still, you get my drift.

[MachDiamond]

Ground Stations?

How much visibility to ground stations is there to provide service in Venezuela? While the President of the country has been abducted, it doesn't mean that prohibitions against Starlink go away. Whatever government is put in place to fill the void may not take up repealing those prohibitions for some time as they'll have much more to worry about to keep the country functioning. Any company taking advantage may find themselves on a "naughty" list. It's also not so affluent that people can afford full price for the hardware and a subscription. Chances would be high that one account will be shared by a large number of people/whole neighborhood/community center/city hall/etc.

An issue with bringing internet to the whole world is that most of the world's population can't afford it.

[Goodwin Sands]

Re: Ground Stations?

>An issue with bringing internet to the whole world is that most of the world's population can't afford it.

Sure. But you've got to start somewhere and you start by selling to the rich initially. Then on the back of those sales the technology evolves and it gets cheaper and it ends up so cheap most of the world's population *can* afford it. Viz mobile phones.

So if you want to help a poor person tomorrow, buy yourself a starlink connection today!

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Ground Stations?

I'm not denying that's how it works, but since business is generally happy with financing today's investments by borrowing against the future, wouldn't it be good if a business offered subsidised sales to the poor today, shafts the future unsubsidised sales to the rich? That way, the poor could get access to the technology first for a change.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: Ground Stations?

And keep your hotspot open

[MachDiamond]

Re: Ground Stations?

"So if you want to help a poor person tomorrow, buy yourself a starlink connection today!"

Where I live in the US, I have 3 better options that are faster and cheaper than Starlink. It would make no sense for me to even consider Starlink, not that I would. In and around many cities in the US, that's often the case as well as elsewhere in the first world. Even rural locations are being serviced with terrestrial internet connections more broadly all of the time so if you choose to live way out in the sticks, that's going to come with some compromises. The question is if there are enough people in those situations with the means to afford Starlink to support 42,000 satellites in LEO along with all of the ground stations necessary. Who pays for new subscriber hardware when the old stuff gets deprecated?

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Ground Stations?

"How much visibility to ground stations is there to provide service in Venezuela?"

Assuming you mean the actual link between ground stations and satellites...

The same as any other place on earth at the same latitude. Service is restricted in software by geofencing the ground stations, not by orbital mechanics.

[doublelayer]

Re: Ground Stations?

That's not true; a ground station at the same latitude but the opposite side of the planet, so in this case somewhere in the Philippines, is not available to a satellite over Venezuela. There is a limit on which ground stations a satellite can successfully transmit to. The orbits are not parallel with lines of latitude, nor are their connections to ground stations anywhere on the orbital path.

In practice, they can use other stations by communicating between satellites, meaning that they can also use stations at latitudes or longitudes the original satellite can't reach. That slows down the connection, which is one reason to ask about the availability of local ground stations to minimize inter-satellite traffic.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: Ground Stations?

IME the traffic is carried to Colombia.

I posted a video review of Starlink in Venezuela with a Speedtest.

The laser system has shown itself capable of carrying traffic from Cape Town to Madrid. And from NZ to LA.

[doublelayer]

Re: Ground Stations?

I already described the inter-satellite option in my post, and I described why that isn't enough, because if a lot of Venezuelans signed up for this, they would saturate those links. The question is whether there are enough ground stations in Colombia that Venezuela's traffic can be handled without the need to install more which could take a while. A single user's speed test does not demonstrate that. I'm sure Starlink has plenty of analysis of this already and will deal with it if they ever properly expand into Venezuela.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: Ground Stations?

This country Venezuela is right next to several countries where Starlink is licensed.

wrt to Ground Stations, Mongolia is served from Singapore, Zimbabwe from Mozambique, Niger and Chad from Nigeria, Guam from Japan, Jamaica from the Dominican Republic.

You don't need to build where you serve.

The Speedtest showed where traffic was run to.

[Dan 55]

"under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

The Gartner analyst somehow appears to have missed the rest of the Venezuelan government still continues in place, the vice president has now been sworn in as president.

As the US has historically been crap at managing a country after the initial invasion, Trump's answer is to threaten the new president with a fate worse than extraordinary rendition if she doesn't dance to his tune.

No oil? Death.

Not allowing Starlink? Death.

Not going on TV and saying that Trump is the bigliest best president in the whole wide world? Etc...

[DS999]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

Yeah Trump's threat to her kind of undoes the already obviously false claim that Maduro was removed because of drugs. Though he openly admitted it is about stealing their oil, so that fig leaf of "drug enforcement" is just to give his corrupt Supreme Court an excuse if there is a lawsuit challenging the legality of sending in the military without any sort of congressional approval (or even foreknowledge)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

If The commander in cheat is concerned about drugs why did he pardon the person that ran the Silk road website?

[MachDiamond]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

"Though he openly admitted it is about stealing their oil, "

The politics of oil are complex. Venezuela is a huge oil producing country so it's important to the global market that they maintain their oil industry rather than under-invest and just milk it to the last Centavos while leaving it to decay. I doubt that the rest of the oil consuming world would stand by and allow Donald to steal all the oil. Are US refineries set up to process the grade(s) they produce? I'm not that up on the fine details anymore.

I'll not contest an argument that drugs were a convenient excuse. I wouldn't be surprised if Maduro was complicit in the drug trade on some level, but it's unlikely that the average person will ever be presented with honest evidence either way. I'd be happier with an honest admission that it was oil and a giant no confidence vote surrounding Maduro's integrity.

[codejunky]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

@MachDiamond

"I doubt that the rest of the oil consuming world would stand by and allow Donald to steal all the oil. Are US refineries set up to process the grade(s) they produce? I'm not that up on the fine details anymore."

I dunno if it is of any interest to you- https://timworstall.substack.com/p/trump-in-venezuela-isnt-about-the

[Jellied Eel]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

I dunno if it is of any interest to you- https://timworstall.substack.com/p/trump-in-venezuela-isnt-about-the

I think Tim glosses over a couple of points. Like Venezuala's economy being a basket case largely due to US sanctions. Plus those forced it to trade with the 'enemy'. US wouldn't buy their oil, so they flogged it to China, Iran etc. If Venezuala won't be allowed to sell to those markets, and the US doesn't need the oil, then where is it going to get the money from to restore democracy? And apparently this is a pressing issue because Venezual's oil stores are full thanks to the blockade, and it's coffers empty.

And also-

For those who say this is all like Iraq and so on, all about that stealing the oil. Have you noted that US individuals and companies pay the market price for Iraqi oil? Same price as everyone else? No? Then perhaps you should think about that.

This is not entirely true. So suppose Chevron gets the rights to Venezuala's oil and produces at say, $40bbl. It sells at the 'market price' of say, $60bbl and makes $20bbl profit.. And who gets that is anybody's guess. Plus the impact of having potentially millions of barrels of unsanctioned oil hitting the markets, which could drive down energy costs and upset OPEC in the process. Plus Venezuala also has silver, gold, gems and other resources to loot.

[codejunky]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

@Jellied Eel

"I think Tim glosses over a couple of points. Like Venezuala's economy being a basket case largely due to US sanctions"

The US didnt make them run out of toilet paper.

"US wouldn't buy their oil, so they flogged it to China, Iran etc."

Venezuela didnt buy the assets nor buy out the contracts of the American oil drilling companies.

"If Venezuala won't be allowed to sell to those markets, and the US doesn't need the oil, then where is it going to get the money from to restore democracy?"

For a start ditch socialism would improve things. I remember the photo of the women approaching the Venezuela border guards to go buy basic home essentials. The oil could probably be used to the benefit of Venezuela instead of the mismanagement of the stolen assets.

[Jellied Eel]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

The US didnt make them run out of toilet paper.

Sanctions helped with that. Can't sell oil, can't fund services.

Venezuela didnt buy the assets nor buy out the contracts of the American oil drilling companies.

That's where it gets more interesting, so-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oil_industry#Nationalization

Also in 1971 the law of reversion was passed which stated that all the assets, plant, and equipment belonging to concessionaires within or outside the concession areas would revert to the nation without compensation upon the expiration of the concession

Which is where US claims that Venezuela 'stole' from the US might be a bit disingeneous. If concessions had expired, and were not renewed, then it isn't automatically Venezuala's problem to compensate.. unless that was in the contract. But this is also where the profits will be made, ie I think a US court ruled that compensation was due, but Venezuala went 'Nope!'. So then that and other debt was bought up for pennies by mostly Republican party donors, who'll probably now be expecting payment in full.

But then came-

In August 2017, the Trump administration imposed sanctions aimed at PDVSA. While these initial sanctions were mainly aimed to block the company's access to US financial markets, later sanctions extended restrictions to prohibit all trade between companies under US jurisdiction and PDVSA. By 2020, sanctions had halted oil trade between the US and Venezuela.

Cutting Venezuala off from it's main market and revenue stream. So naturally other nations looked at filling that void, like Iran, China, Russia that could provide investment and tech to rebuild Venezuala's oil industry, which couldn't be allowed to happen.

For a start ditch socialism would improve things. I remember the photo of the women approaching the Venezuela border guards to go buy basic home essentials. The oil could probably be used to the benefit of Venezuela instead of the mismanagement of the stolen assets.

Probably, but now it's whether the US will mismanage their stolen assets. After all, the assets ultimately belonged to Venezuela and were mismanaged, but there's no guarantee that things are going to get any better under their new (mis)management. They could arguably get worse, ie in theory, socialism should mean the wealth is spread around. Under an arch-capitalist owner, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

[codejunky]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

@Jellied Eel

"Sanctions helped with that. Can't sell oil, can't fund services."

Price controls did it. Cant sell toilet paper above the cost to make it? No toilet paper.

"I think a US court ruled that compensation was due, but Venezuala went 'Nope!'."

That would be consistent with socialists stealing property and saying it is the right thing.

"Cutting Venezuala off from it's main market and revenue stream. So naturally other nations looked at filling that void, like Iran, China, Russia that could provide investment and tech to rebuild Venezuala's oil industry, which couldn't be allowed to happen."

And a lucrative drug trade while displacing many Venezuelans to rush to the US border including gangs under Biden. Trump is taking a pretty tough stance to clean up that mess.

"Probably, but now it's whether the US will mismanage their stolen assets."

That we will have to see. I have no idea if it will be better or worse under new management and hopefully the US will be arranging democratic elections then pulling back instead of the occupational role they played in the middle east. Only time will tell.

[Jellied Eel]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

Price controls did it. Cant sell toilet paper above the cost to make it? No toilet paper.

I think it was a combination of mismanagement and sanctions. Can't sell oil, can't get dollars, can't buy products or services priced in dollars, or can't access the US market. Plus toilet paper is strange, so when the Panicdemic happened, there was a rush on it, creating shortages. Much the same when the EU sanctioned Russia because Russia isn't exactly short of trees. But also a strange product given it's a relatively low cost and bulky thing to ship by land or sea. But Chaves and Maduro also printed a lot of money leading to hyperinflation as well.

And a lucrative drug trade while displacing many Venezuelans to rush to the US border including gangs under Biden. Trump is taking a pretty tough stance to clean up that mess.

Perhaps, or drugs were just used as an excuse to steal the oil. Maduro's indictment was already amended because the gang he supposedly lead doesn't exist. DEA reports also said that not much in the way of drugs came via Venezuala, and most comes via Mexico. So the prosecution might have a hard time proving Maduro's involvement. So what charges might actually stick, and the slim charge that Maduro might win his case and then has to be released.

That we will have to see. I have no idea if it will be better or worse under new management and hopefully the US will be arranging democratic elections then pulling back instead of the occupational role they played in the middle east. Only time will tell.

Indeed. There's euphoria and backslapping at the moment after a successful kidnapping. Now Venezuela still has some rather pressing problems after the illegal blockade, sanctions, and new trading rules. So US gets 50m barrels of oil. Great. That probably undercuts Mexico and Canada's oil output. But Venezuela needs cash and imports now. So no cash, they can't pay their police, military, teachers, doctors, nurses etc. And per Tim's article, Venezuela's crude was being refined to petrol & diesel and then imported. No diesel, no farming or transportation. Or if US refined petrol imports become more expensive, no cheap petrol because the goverment might have to remove subsidies.

So I think there's a lot of potential that this action just destabilises Venezuala even further, and to avoid that, the US will need to send cash now. Any improvements or upgrades to Venezuala are going to cost billions and take years before Venezualans see any benefits. If the Venezualan goverment collapses and the economy deteroriates, the US might end up with more refugees, or attempted refugees. Then potential problems with Trump's latest statement that Venezuela will be forced to only buy products from the US, which means those products might get more expensive in the US.

But removing permissions around Starlink & licensing that would be a small benefit. Easy to do though.

[MachDiamond]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

"But removing permissions around Starlink & licensing that would be a small benefit. Easy to do though."

That could be at the cost of more robust and internal internet. Do they really want Elon controlling their internet?

[MachDiamond]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

"Price controls did it. Cant sell toilet paper above the cost to make it? No toilet paper."

I'd certainly not pour lots of my BST into a business that was legally prevented from turning a profit. I'd show up to a factory everyday that the state owned if paid a larger than average salary but those jobs go to cronies with no need for competency.

[MachDiamond]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

"US wouldn't buy their oil, so they flogged it to China, Iran etc."

From what I've read recently, Venezuela's oil is super-heavy which isn't something that US refineries are set up to process very much of. I'm not sure if they also ship out finished/semi-finished products.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

https://rbnenergy.com/daily-posts/blog/gulf-coast-refiners-be-tested-loss-venezuelan-crude

This article from an industry consultant claims Chevron was already involved in Venezuelan oil until early 2025.

And that refineries on the gulf coast are capable of refining them.

[MachDiamond]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

"And that refineries on the gulf coast are capable of refining them."

I'll have to do some more research. The crude oil in Texas is typically an "intermediate". Light is preferred since it's much easier to turn into transportation fuel. Heavy grades need a lot of "cracking" to shorten the HC chains into lighter fractions and that takes loads of energy and catalysts. This is why tar sands are a mess besides a lot of them being loaded with all sorts of nasty byproducts (sour). Yes, you can make petrol from tar sands, but the eROI is ghastly. (energy Return on Investment).

[doublelayer]

Re: "under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela"

Many of the refineries in the southern US were built specifically to process Venezuelan petroleum and are optimized for that. A lot of them switched to processing Albertan petroleum which has similar characteristics when Venezuela and the US fell out and stopped the integrated production system that had previously existed. Multiple pipelines, notably the Keystone and controversial Keystone XL (not built) pipelines, were built or proposed specifically to link Canadian oil to those refineries because it was more efficient to build pipelines going most of the way across North America than to build refineries in or closer to Alberta.

[elsergiovolador]

Friends

It is funny how Putin is using Krasnov to destroy his friends and allies. Peculiar type that one.

A snake in the cabbage patch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Friends

An insightful and accurate comment, and witty too. How can anyone downvote that?

[Casca]

Re: Friends

Its the usual three downvotes for anything critical against trump or russia

[Anonymous Coward]

Yawn

Wake me up when Starlink also gets a new president.

[codejunky]

Show me on the doll where Elon touched you

"Musk is just trying to grease the pan when the dust settles and a new government sets up shop in the country."

Yes. Business man tries to sell his product. Is that news at 10 or normal?

"It's another chance for Musk to make a buck off of goodwill generated on the back of human suffering."

This on the other hand is hilarious. You want to frame offering a service to people as bad, but those people have been suffering under the dictator who was just arrested. The human suffering under the socialist utopia of Maduro.

At no point must you be a fan of Elon nor Trump to simply recognise simply positioning the business to hopefully possibly be able to sell to another country is normal. Just think of all those people earning living wage and above thanks to their employment at starlink. Consider that it is now possible for the human suffering to be corrected.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Show me on the doll where Elon touched you

More downvoting! No one even half reasonable should downvote the points codejunky makes. Are they stupid, or children, or bigots, or what.

[EnviableOne]

Re: Show me on the doll where Elon touched you

I think the point is that He is not offering anything to anyone and making a big deal of it.

As Starlink T&Cs forbid using the service in Venezuela, as it's not an active country.

So nothing is being given to anyone

[codejunky]

Re: Show me on the doll where Elon touched you

@EnviableOne

"I think the point is that He is not offering anything to anyone and making a big deal of it."

"At this time, our focus is on enabling connectivity for new and existing customers to support the people of Venezuela with free service credits," Starlink said on the help page. "If you already have a Starlink kit in your possession, you can select a Roam plan to use your Starlink in Venezuela."

"Very few people will be able to get access to the necessary equipment, but SpaceX will be hoping that this might smooth the way to getting a local permit under whatever administration emerges in Venezuela," Ray told The Register in an email. "Starlink has the technical capability to provide service just about anywhere, but is limited by local regulations."

It is such a non-news event because it is just normal business. Reporting on it as though its a big deal is the oddity.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: Show me on the doll where Elon touched you

Completely groundless claim since it's already working and has been working for years in Venezuela

[awomanmanhasaname]

Starlink likely has thousands of users in Venezuela. Since 2022 (everywhere in the Americas including Cuba has Starlink)

Here's a review from one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdWY36UMvtI

As I pointed out to two authors and the editor ages ago it's meaningful because it's not a sign up offer and it means they can spend the sub money on something else.

In Venezuela it's valued for getting around IP restrictions.

The author claims "Musk is just trying to grease the pan when the dust settles and a new government sets up shop in the country. It's another chance for Musk to make a buck off of goodwill generated on the back of human suffering"

But it's a self negating claim. These are users who've *already* committed to buying hardware and subscriptions. You don't make more money by giving them free stuff.

As for the governments, his government has paid for it in the past and could do it again[ example from Biden term https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_HC101324F0143_9700_HC101323D9000_9700 ] the other government is supposedly going to be arm twisted to benefit American companies. You're definitely not going to have Chevron offer free Ford/GM vehicles and free fuel to Venezuelans

[awomanmanhasaname]

A question for the author and editor and moderator.

Is a world world without Starlink in Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and Sudan one you desire?

[doublelayer]

What does their desire have to do with whether the service is available in those places in practice? The article's point was not whether Starlink in Venezuela is good or bad but whether it is actually there, which it mostly isn't. Its availability in any of the countries you name depends mostly on the number of people with access to dishes and whether they are able to operate them, and Spacex's willingness to exaggerate makes that harder to know, even though Spacex could provide exact statistics on the number of users they have in those countries any time they wanted.

Calling out hyperbole or dishonesty is not the same as opposing a technology or a specific product. Pretending that they are makes your counterarguments pointless and suggests you don't have an argument about what the article was talking about.

[Jellied Eel]

What does their desire have to do with whether the service is available in those places in practice? The article's point was not whether Starlink in Venezuela is good or bad but whether it is actually there, which it mostly isn't.

But as the article points out, Starlink is there, or thereabouts. Like where it mentions 'roaming'. And following the hostile takeover, Venezuala is under new management and is a wholly owned subsidiary of the US entity. Starlink didn't have a licence to sell or operate in Venezuala, soon, it might. If nothing else but because oil companies often work remotely and use satellite connections. Licence granted, and a few clicks later, Starlink's geofencing gets removed. Or officially removed because if it's really there, then roaming wouldn't work.

[doublelayer]

True, but unless they get a move on, that won't make the free credits available to anyone because those expire in less than a month. If Starlink gets fully licensed to operate on February 4th, then nobody gets to have those credits. I don't think Starlink is the primary goal of any of the people who are or claim to be in control of Venezuela, and licensing, even abnormally, takes a while.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Dishes are already in Venezuela. You could write the same comment about Cuba, or Myanmar where there's no license but users are using it regardless today.

Your doubt won't disappear working equipment.

[awomanmanhasaname]

These places have Starlink in practice today.

Are they better off without?

Was Biden's sanctions waiver improvidently granted?

[awomanmanhasaname]

Completely nonsense claims end to end.

Starlink is mostly available in Venezuela. It's actually there and you can find reviews online from 2022/2023 till today.

I don't think it's unusual for an operator to hide the number of users in a country it doesn't have a license to operate in but you do you. Especially when it doesn't disclose it in lotsa countries where it has a license. Nor is it unusual for users in a country without satellite licensing to use services from another. Satellite TV is illegal in Iran but we see a proliferation of dishes. Hispanic migrants to the US get decoders from other countries to save money and bring a slice of home with them.

There's no exaggeration from SpaceX. The offer is simple. If you have a dish in Venezuela, we'll waive your bill till February 3. If you've stopped paying, bring it out and it will work. Nothing more or less. No calls to buy a dish, no claims it will fix their economy or bring them freedom. Not even claims it will bypass local censorship (which it does).

I don't just have an argument with the article, but the repeated theme that offers of free service from Starlink specifically help no one. Repeated dishonesty.

So I offer a counter argument. When SpaceX announced it was terminating services in Sudan after a piece similar to this from Bloomberg, hundreds of civil society organizations wrote, asking SpaceX to keep the service on.

I ask a question : would it have been better to keep the service off? Was their letter all hyperbole and dishonesty?

[Jellied Eel]

I don't think it's unusual for an operator to hide the number of users in a country it doesn't have a license to operate in but you do you.

I think where it gets murky is if Starlink doesn't have a licence to supply services, users don't have licences to install or operate services, and then if Starlink would have been impacted by sanctions against Venezuala. Starlink could 'evade' sanctions just by getting a licence from the US, but probably not from Venezuala. Then 'opposition' leaders could carry on using the Internet via holes poked in a geofence. Just because there are some reviews online, it doesn't mean the kit was being bought & operated legally.. Which is can also be risky in some countries that have strict bans on unlicenced/illegal terminals. Sure, you can use it, but if you get caught..

[awomanmanhasaname]

Just like a speed limit doesn't doesn't stop your car from moving faster, laws don't stop people from doing things.

As I've repeatedly pointed out there are lots of users.

What I'm arguing against is the idea being pushed that exactly zero people will benefit from this offer when you can just go on Facebook and find people selling the stuff and using it within Venezuela right now.

This idea is supported by another one that requires SpaceX not to know where your dish is and depend on your billing address to give user credits. If you've followed the stories on Starlink in Ukraine you'd know it's an idea that just can't stand.

[doublelayer]

Yes, you continue to redirect to a point that nobody made. Nobody other than you has argued that the service might be a bad thing in itself, and you're not arguing that either, so it looks like that's a pointless question.

The part where you and the article author disagree is whether people will actually get those credits or whether Spacex is exaggerating or even lying about them. We don't know, because as you've agreed in this and other posts, it's not licensed for use in Venezuela, so anyone who is eligible to receive the credits is using the service against Venezuelan law and in violation of the Starlink agreement, with at least some users using it with an address outside Venezuela which would make them ineligible. So does anyone get the credits after all? It's not the most important question because it's trying to tell how honest a sales claim without sales is, except you keep jumping to defend it. This question can extend to various others, such as whether it's a good or bad thing that Starlink, with its benefits to its users, is ignoring many national regulators, some but not necessarily all of which are dictatorships. We could have that discussion and I'm sure you have an opinion, but it still wouldn't be a thing the article talked about since they focused on unclear and likely misleading sales claims.

[awomanmanhasaname]

You could ask the same of Iran, Myanmar, Sudan where the same is true.

These aren't just sign up credits (so can't be sales claims) they are credits for *all* current users.

SpaceX mostly knows where users are regardless of their billing address. No matter how much you pay as an individual, you can't roam in Russia, Lebanon, China and recently Uganda.

They know where the spot beams point to. The devices have GPS too ya know. They've demonstrated the ability to waive charges based on location since February 2022

I'll summarize my arguments, SpaceX knows roughly where users are regardless of billing, this publication has published an article about Myanmar that shows further evidence of geographic identification, there are at least multiple thousands of users in Venezuela per Bloomberg, it's a good thing for them to have access to the service , free service for hardware you've already purchased is meaningful and better than paid.

Your comment is refuted just by having two working (2) users in areas more than 15 miles from any border (the size of the spot beams/cells)

Sudanese in their poverty have it, same with Haiti and Myanmar, but it's the Venezuelans that don't? Think no one in Belize, Cuba, Bolivia has it either?

[awomanmanhasaname]

Starlink operates illegally in several countries without a license. Even after being asked by the ITU and Governments to stop(Iran, Sudan). When they (rarely) stop operating in a country (Lebanon, Uganda) they can figure out within reason where users are to stop them. That mechanism can be used to find users to credit.

[awomanmanhasaname]

I've tried to answer but can't get my answer past mods sorry

Detailed or summarized, even with tier 1 sources.

[Jellied Eel]

I've tried to answer but can't get my answer past mods sorry

Detailed or summarized, even with tier 1 sources.

Probably because it's asked and answered. Yes, Starlink terminals are in Venezula, but they might be operating illegally, both as Starlink and the subscribers. This is pretty common with satellite services because they're hard for states to monitor users.

So picking on a couple of examples. Iran currently has protests and demonstrations. People might be using Starlink to access the Internet, co-ordinate protests or generate PR and bypass Iranian restrictions. But offering Starlink in Iran is illegal, both for Starlink because Iran is sanction, and for users to operate terminals. But being politics, governments (ie US) might turn a blind eye, even if terminals are being used by an opposition group like MEK, who are also seperately sanctioned by the US and other states. But Starlink knows exactly where their terminals are.

And then to make life even more interesting, I've supplied services into sanctioned countries. Because I like waking up when I'm good and ready, and not when a guard rattles on the cell doors, that's been done legally. So apply for an export licence, and if that's granted, service can be supplied legally. Which for tech stuff gets a bit more challenging because it inevitably involves US components, so need an export licence from them as well. And then there's nationality issues, like perhaps I just get a US licence, but as a British citizen, UK courts might then jail and fine me. Or vice-versa, so might be legal for me to do with a UK licence, but maybe the CEO is a US citizen and they'd end up in jail. So then I've seen subsidiaries set up so US staff can be blissfully unaware, plead ignorance and hopefully avoid US jails.

Luckily there are law firms specialising in export approvals because there's a lot of paperwork and a lot of downsides, if you inadvertantly break the law(s).

[awomanmanhasaname]

The article and comment thread sorta claims there's no way to figure out who's using it there for the purpose.

Like there are Venezuelans online, and people usually get an announcement via their email 1-2 days before the public announcement of waived service.

So we could ask them ya know.

[awomanmanhasaname]

We have confirmation of messages sent to users via Time magazines article "Starlink’s quiet role in Venezuela’s political crisis" offering the free service users.

[Marty McFly]

Ground stations or no ground stations?

I thought Starlink used lasers for inter-satellite communication to help cover areas without ground stations. Seems to me that would allow Venezuela to get some connectivity. May not be blazing fast or low latency, but it would beat the heck out of no connectivity.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: Ground stations or no ground stations?

When a ground station failed in New Zealand years ago, SpaceX carried the traffic all the way to LA.

It's all talk from people who don't know how things work.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Ground stations or no ground stations?

"I thought Starlink used lasers for inter-satellite communication to help cover areas without ground stations."

At a point SpaceX added that capability to the satellites, but no all of them have it. It can have the effect of moving bottlenecks around since a bunch of users with no local ground station will need to have their data flashed around until there is a satellite that is connected to the "internet". The only advantage Starlink has is latency, so having to bounce signals around is only going to increase latency and increase chances of dropped packets.

[awomanmanhasaname]

Re: Ground stations or no ground stations?

Most if not all Starlink satellites have it.

V1.5 to v2mini do.

[the Kris]

Nice map, coloring the land blue and the oceans black.

[awomanmanhasaname]

I've finally found a source for at least emails sent to users offering this. With users claiming they are Venezuelans in a group targeted at users of Starlink in Venezuela.

"Starlink’s quiet role in Venezuela’s political crisis" -Time

[awomanmanhasaname]

Starlink in their Geolocation file has added IP blocks to serve Venezuela in particular.

This doesn't require local POP's or ground stations.

All the IP addresses do is help content providers know if they are allowed to provide services.

Source- Doug Madory at Kentik

https://x.com/DougMadory/status/2010721695901102205?s=20