UK prepares to wave goodbye to 3G telecoms as tri-hard tech retires

Britain is set to become a post-3G nation as Virgin Media O2 (VMO2) prepares to be the last of the country's mobile networks to switch off its 3G service, although it may linger for a while at a few sites. The operator says that its rivals have completed their switch-offs and now the firm is set to complete its own program "in …

[Anonymous Coward]

End Of An Era?? Really??

But, thanks to the "smart meter" screw up, 2G (Yup.....that's right...2G) will be available after 2030!!

So....my £25 Chinese feature phone has another five years to go!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Apparently my brand new model CPAP machine is using 2G on Vodafone. As for the smart meters, utter screw up.

[steelpillow]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

IMHO it's the only decision the smart meter brigade ever got right.

2G reaches the parts that shorter wavelengths can't.

[Spazturtle]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

You can transmit 4G and 5G at those same frequencies. T-Mobile in the US transmit 4G on 600MHz for example.

[steelpillow]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

What - while the smart meters are hogging them?

Hey, maybe we should just stick low-rate 6G services in the 2G guard bands....

[Charlie Clark]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Sure, but how much bandwidth do you get?

Lower frequencies were chosen for GSM because, at the time, propagation was for more important than bandwidth and LTE, impressive as it is, requires more bandwidth than 2G to do anything.

[steelpillow]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Not aware that smart meters need a lot of bandwidth.

You're not developing and AI-enabled data-scraping spysmart meter are you? [joke]

[Charlie Clark]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

They don't, but you've got to build and maintain it and someone's got to pay for that and it won't be the smart meter operators.

[JohnMay]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Because the 2G standard was built before the era of modern cybersecurity, it contains several "by-design" flaws. Most modern Android phones (Android 12+) have a setting to "Allow 2G." Turning this off prevents your phone from being forced onto a rogue 2G tower.

[cyberdemon]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Not just Smart Meters, but many traffic light controllers use 3G or 2G to communicate with the Urban Traffic Control centre.

They won't "stop working" without signal of course, but they will be poorly optimised and out of sync with other junctions, won't give priority to ambulances & fire engines, etc.

[Zack Mollusc]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Since traffic lights increase both journey times, wear on road surfaces, and pollution, anything which mars their operation has to be a good thing for the planet. Hurrah.

[abend0c4]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

I not only worked for a while for a large metropolitan traffic authority where it was possible to monitor the effects on traffic in real time, but I was also present in Portugal on the day of the great Iberian grid failure. If you think traffic would be faster without lights, you haven't seen the Gordian Knots that develop at every intersection as drivers and pedestrians make their own individual decisions about threading their conflicting paths around each other.

[brainwrong]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

That's because no alternative arrangements were made to guide people. Junctions without lights give priority to some vehicles, maybe not efficiently. Junctions with broken lights have no structure to guide people, and they're too selfish and arrogant on the whole to work together.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Priority to traffic turning (from the left in the UK, right on the continent) in is a basic principle in many countries, but is usually in areas with lower speed limits for safety reasons. I can't think off-hand of any solution that copes well with traffic trying to turn across traffic, but if you drop the speed limit, you've got a chance. Then again, you've still got to deal with the Race Car Ya-Yas…

The maths for efficient traffic flow are reasonably well understood: you can improve the flow by reducing the pressure. Just not by the general public in any situation where space distribution is limited – boarding planes, entering buildings, etc.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

I can answer my own question: roundabouts deal with the turning across lanes be obviating the need and, with priority for vehicles entering, can be a good way of regulating traffic flows. If it weren't for the meatware driving the vehicles. Same with lights, of course.

[Zack Mollusc]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

I haven't worked for a traffic authority, but I have monitored traffic queues in real time at junctions where traffic lights have stopped operating. If you think that traffic is faster with lights you have never seen the lack of queues at intersections with broken traffic lights and compared them with the lengthy tailbacks and gridlock which return as soon as the traffic lights are mended.

[Gene Cash]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

LOL.

I remember coming up to a local intersection and noting the signal had failed. It was 2 lanes+turn lane in each direction. As I didn't want to deal with that nightmare, I pulled into a parking lot with the intention of going back the other way.

I watched as people raced through in both directions at 50mph without even slowing down, until finally two vehicles tried to occupy the same space at the same time. Then a third car hit the first two st speed. Result: 5 dead, 2 critical, including 2 dead children, according to the local paper.

It was just amazing how long the Russian Roulette of cars racing through lasted. It was 6 minutes before the collision.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Not just traffic lights, iirc there's a ton of stuff that uses 2G, car park payment machines, card payment machines, wearable medical monitoring eqp't, remote sensing & logging kit for eg water company distribution networks, etc etc. I don't have any professional knowledge of such things so may be way out of date, but I suspect that these 2G devices all fall into the traditional British box labelled "it works, why mess with it?" so I'd be surprised if I'm wrong.

As an aside, our little electric 2016 BMW i3 uses 3G for its obligatory data link, with a fallback to 2G, which, living in Canterbury, a city where 3G never worked, I assume it's used exclusively since we bought it. The only difference that turning off 3G in the phone settings made here was a significant improvement in battery life.

From memory, 2G remote monitoring was something that Voda were the main network for, & it provided a useful income stream for them.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

One man's screw up is another man's yacht.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

One man's screw up is another man's yacht.

I wouldn't begrudge that man his yacht if it were named Bayesian.

[DS999]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

They could keep 2G around for meters and other hard-to-upgrade devices, but not allow phones to connect. That would make sense from a spectrum management standpoint, as you'd need only a tiny sliver of a 2G band available for that stuff, and the rest could be redeployed for 5G.

If your 2G phone still works today that may not be true tomorrow.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

My 5G phone drops back to 2G (since 3G was removed) for voice, simply because the provider won't keep a 4G and 5G "profile" for it.

The phone itself is 5G voice compatible.

It's like a worse version of "this site only works in internet explorer 6. Please upgrade." - remember the times you'd get that message whilst using a more capable browser than IE6 could ever hope to be?

Why they can't default to the default profile if no specific one is set is beyond me, seeing as:

4G voice: (VoLTE)

" The global standard for these profiles is defined by the GSMA, primarily in document IR.92. It specifies a minimum mandatory set of features that devices and networks must implement for interoperable, high-quality voice and SMS over LTE."

5G voice: (VoNR):

I googled, and the AI coughed up this:

Summary of the VoNR Conflict: STANDARDS VS. OPERATOR PROFILES

- CONNECTIVITY -

[The Standard]: Defines how 5G voice signals move.

[The Reality]: Carriers add proprietary IMS security and

timers. If they don't match, the network rejects the phone.

- RELIABILITY -

[The Standard]: Specifies how to hand calls off to 4G.

[The Reality]: Carriers "whitelist" only certified devices.

Profiles are blocked until the model passes emergency services

interoperability testing.

- CODECS & AUDIO -

[The Standard]: Mandates EVS (Super HD) audio quality.

[The Reality]: Negotiation protocols (SDP) vary by network.

Without the specific profile, the device cannot "negotiate"

the audio path correctly.

--- BOTTOM LINE ---

The "Standard" is the blueprint, but the "Profile" is the

proprietary key required to open the carrier's door.

Still, it seems like a backwards step in my opinion. Voice over 4G and 5G always seemed a last minute consideration - I guess the operators make most of their money these days from the data connection.

Whilst all 2G phones worked just fine, now unless you have an apple/google/samsung phone, you're at the mercy of the operator.

[Dr Paul Taylor]

This is yet more pressure to submit to surveillance by "smart" phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

I had a similar experience a couple of years ago when I took my 4G phone to the US. Even though the roaming carrier supported 4G, they would only give me a 2G data connection. Simply because my phone model wasn't on their list of "approved devices". Didn't make any difference whether the device could support 4G, it wouldn't even TRY.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

How are you going to stop particular devices? And who is going to pay to maintain the infrastructure when you have no paying customers? In addition, the spectrum has generally be reallocated to other services.

[that one in the corner]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

> How are you going to stop particular devices?

Same way they do now: my 'phone won't connect to any network I've not paid for. Simply don't sell jew contracts to 'phone holders and if someone does get their hands on a SIM and can manages to make do with basically a low-bandwidth, no voice, limited service with no help line unless they can quote their Big Boys SLA number then good luck to them, they are still paying the contract fee...

> And who is going to pay to maintain the infrastructure when you have no paying customers?

>> meters and other hard-to-upgrade devices

Which pay the same way they have for decades and the same way you are paying now (and probably into the foreseeable future); the majority of the physical plant (metal towers, local backup generation etc) is common to sll the Gs and 2G just bears the cost for sharing its (small) part of that. The software already exists, goes into basic maintenance instead of trying to gain new features.

> In addition, the spectrum has generally be reallocated to other services.

>> you'd need only a tiny sliver of a 2G band available for that stuff, and the rest could be redeployed for 5G.

[druck]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

I assume that supposed to be new contracts?

[Excused Boots]

Re: End Of An Era?? Really??

Yes a rather unfortunate typo!

[IGotOut]

Soooo...

Does this mean when I have a full 5G signal in a busy area, it will finally become usable?

I won't hold my breath.

[DS999]

Re: Soooo...

If that happens to you it means you are running at a lower priority than other users. In the US that means you're on an MVNO, as almost all MVNO plans have a lower data priority than the big three's postpaid customers. There are a few exceptions, like Verizon's Visible - but only if you have a higher tier plan that the base plan.

[Eric 9001]

Re: Soooo...

No, as if the bands are overloaded from too many users, adding a few more bands will only be a temporary improvement and will later perform identically or worse.

It's like adding more lanes to a road - soon enough the traffic is just as bad or worse.

But it seems that tiktok and social media is more important than calls reliably working.

[Anonymous Coward]

WAP did its job at the time

"It was the first mobile technology able to offer a reasonable experience for mobile browsing when it arrived in the UK in March 2003. Before that, phone users had to rely on something called Wireless Application Protocol (WAP), which the mere mention of will bring a shudder to those old enough to remember it."

You're shuddering at the thought of WAP rather than shuddering at the thought of GPRS ("2G+")? At the time WAP over GDPR provided a faster method to browse compared with using GPRS natively.

I don't shudder at the thought of WAP, it provided a (relatively) better way to browse at the time. Obviously the introduction of 3G with its greatly increased bandwidth changed things and made native HTTP/HTTPS browsing feasible.

Also WAP is still around even today as MMS (Picture Messaging) makes use of it, at the very least using WAP Push to notify the recipient's device of new MMS messages.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

In 2025 WAP never sounds like it used to. Just sayin'

[Chloe Cresswell]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

Nonono, before 3G, you had to use WAP... an IP connection GPRS then EDGE never happened, the iphone roll out in the UK wasn't delayed while O2 got EDGE running... etc. etc.. ;)

[Jamie Jones]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

I hated WAP. With my nokia 9110 communicator at the time, I found running lynx or w3m from a shell on a server gave a much better experience.

The technology at the time was more than capable of doing better than what appeared to be a glorified SMS.

[Chloe Cresswell]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

By the time I had my 9300i, GPRS/EDGE connection to run the symbian Putty port and use one of my servers was how I did a lot of stuff.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

My recollection of WAP is that I only ever managed to connect to the Orange mobile portal, when I tested it, and that all my attempts to use it otherwise totally failed.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

> "before 3G [..] the iphone roll out in the UK wasn't delayed while O2 got EDGE running"

That's somewhat misleading. We were talking about the pre-3G era (i.e. late 90s/early 2000s), but EDGE, despite being a jumped-up 2G technology, didn't launch in the UK didn't until much later, in 2007... by which point "true" 3G had *already* been out for several years.

And, as you imply, the only reason O2 bothered rolling out EDGE support at all- when they'd originally bypassed it in favour of 3G- was that they got the exclusive contract to be carriers for the original iPhone which was EDGE-only.

In hindsight, it's quite surprising to reflect that, for all that it was seen as an innovative, cutting-edge and highly-desirable new device, the original iPhone didn't even support the already-established 3G technology.

[Chloe Cresswell]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

It's not misleading. As the article stated, before 3G there was only WAP.

GPRS on O2 launched in 2000. Hutchinsons would launch 3G in the UK with three in 2003.

Yes, UTMS was ratified in 1998, but it took 5 years before anything launched with it in the UK.

Also, "in hindsight" Apple didn't support UTMS due to the power requirements.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

I see the point you were trying to make now- i.e. that UK users didn't have EDGE available to them in the pre-3G era- although the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm of your original post made that less clear.

Also, if UMTS's power requirements were a major problem for Apple, they can't have been for long, as the iPhone 3G came out just a year later.

[IamAProton]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

is "WAP over GDPR" a privacy-preserving way of browsing?

[Roland6]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

A nice feature of WAP was it was very easy to scrap for a spoken interface.

[xyz]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

Ah remember t'day when I could sit on't train reading emails and browsing websites with my trusty Nokia 8850 taped to my iPaq and without any of that fancy southern WAP crap.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

> "At the time WAP over [GPRS?] provided a faster method to browse compared with using GPRS natively."

Apologies in advance if I'm being overly pedantic, but if I understand correctly, WAP was associated with the higher level network layers and GPRS itself was solely the physical network layer (and/or one of the other lower layers) and being run "natively" regardless of whether you ran WAP or a more conventional Internet stack on top? (Or did you mean to compare the former with the latter?)

WAP was, as far as I was aware, halfway to being an alternative network stack that replaced several higher layer protocols. Wikipedia suggests that it seems to replace everything from UDP/TCP (with WDP instead) upwards but *not* the lowest layers. (I think it still used IP at least?)

I do remember that, rather than GPRS, some phones- such as the Nokia 3330- supported WAP over what was (in effect) a dial-up connection (*) using the same data channel as voice calls and charged at the same per-minute rate. (Apparently this was called "Circuit Switched Data").

As they say... yeah, no. Dial-up access was just about acceptable at landline rates, but as cool as the idea of being able to browse the Internet from a mobile device was back then, paying 30p a minute (double that for today's prices) to access a cut-down five-lines-at-a-time version was somewhat less so and I gave it a miss.

(*) Albeit without the digital-to-analogue conversion of a regular landline modem.

[Dan 55]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

as cool as the idea of being able to browse the Internet from a mobile device was back then, paying 30p a minute (double that for today's prices) to access a cut-down five-lines-at-a-time version was somewhat less so and I gave it a miss.

0800 ISP and a mobile tariff which offered free 0800 calls. I don't know how much Orange must have lost with their Orange Value Promise tariff to price match Virgin.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

"Apologies in advance if I'm being overly pedantic, but if I understand correctly, WAP was associated with the higher level network layers and GPRS itself was solely the physical network layer (and/or one of the other lower layers) and being run "natively" regardless of whether you ran WAP or a more conventional Internet stack on top? (Or did you mean to compare the former with the latter?)"

WAP ran over TCP/IP, the IP connection being provided via PPP either on a Circuit Switched connection (GSM) or a PDP Context (both GPRS and 3G).

In theory the speed advantage of WAP over GPRS in comparison to using a GPRS "raw" TCP/IP was that the content was compressed (byte-encoded WML versus raw HTML and images converted to WBMP) by the WAP gateway before being sent over the "slow" GPRS connection.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: WAP did its job at the time

Circuit Switched Data, superceded by High Speed Circuit Switched Data, or HSCSD on the display of whatever 'phone I was using at the time. Vaguely remember HSCSD being given a different name & being passed off as the latest thing by some networks at the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wait for the cries...

Why won't my phone work?

There are large parts of West Wales where 3G is often 1bar (if lucky). 4G? Unicorn Tech and 5G? Hogwarts potion land.

If they are really going to switch off 3G in that part of the world, I hope the execs of the phone company never venture there on holiday. The Welsh Dragon will rise up.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Just wait for the cries...

> West Wales where 3G is often 1bar

West Wales? I think you mean 1 baaah.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: Just wait for the cries...

The article mentions 95% "of the country" by next year and 99% "of the population" by 2030. I doubt if west Wales or the Highlands of Scotland will be part of either.

[IamAProton]

Meh

I can count the times i use 4g data in a week and i never used any 'data' on 2G/3G.

Most people using 3G will not notie the difference until its off.

My daily it's a 2G Nokia and it'r reliable around the world, try to make a call with VoLTE in a different country... either as an excuse to sell more phones or because of shitty design it might work or not.

If the switch off for a certain network isn't already decided is reasonable to pick a technology that works with minimum fuss when you ar ebuilding devices that must work once they are out of the door.

[Dan 55]

"4G addressed the shortcomings of 3G"

And somehow added new shortcomings of its own such as roaming on 4G is less reliable than on 3G and maybe emergency calls don't work when they should. And the workaround was... drop down to 3G with all its shortcomings that now won't be there.

Maybe 6G...

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: "4G addressed the shortcomings of 3G"

That drop down to 3G for calls was a mess. If you were connected to 4G, the switch to 3G usually took longer than it did for the call to go to voice mail or to just hang up. Either way, the call never got through and the first you noticed on your handset was a "missed call" message.

[ChrisElvidge]

"4G addressed the shortcomings of 3G"

A perfectly serviceable 4G phone - data, SMS, voice - on 3G go enough bandwidth to run a single ROKU box.

Change to 4G. Data and SMS still OK but NO voice. Surely not beyond the boffins of wireless? More evidence that wireless networks are run for the benefit of carriers, not users.

[vogon00]

Re: "4G addressed the shortcomings of 3G"

"Change to 4G. Data and SMS still OK but NO voice"

Once you get to '4G', it's all IP/Packet switched, not the 'circuit switched' technology used in 2g,eg and the PSTN/ISDN of old. 4g voice calls require a feature known as VOLTE ('Voice Over LTE').

If one's handset doesn't support VOLTE, it will (probably) try falling back onto circuit switched 3g or 2g for voice calls.

Once 3g is turned off (like is has been for most of us for a while now), it is quite possible for 'data' services to be working fine (remaining on 4g), but 'voice' won't work as neither the required VOLTE mechanism or a circuit-switched alternative is available.

Older handsets don't support VOLTE...check yours does!:-)

[Jamie Jones]

Re: "4G addressed the shortcomings of 3G"

As I just posted elsewhere in this section, it's not just down to the handsets - you're at the mercy of the provider to support your specific phone.

Vendor lock-in seems to have been an intentional "feature" of 4G and 5G voice.

[jeffkey1]

Motorola 3B BaseStations

My claim to fame is I helped design the first 3G BaseStation made my Motorola in Swindon. A lot of the Electronic Boards were retro fitted into the existing 2G cabinets which had 5V and +/- 12V power systems. We had onboard switching regulators to power the 1.8/3.3V Chips. The Radios were a new formfactor as they did not have a backplane in the cabinets. I also got a nice new Motorola Startac Phone to play with.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: Motorola 3B BaseStations

Given todays technology, and the prolification of SDR, would it not be possible for every 5G base station (or 4G for that matter) to implement 2G in software, just to ensure continuity of service ?

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Motorola 3B BaseStations

I presume the old 2 and 3G bands will be repurposed for other things, so just carrying on using them like that would probably cause some interference issues.

[Eric 9001]

Re: Motorola 3B BaseStations

That doesn't seem to be the case, as there are few GSM and UMTS devices anymore and later protocols are good at noise rejection.

Although there would be less of a temporary performance improvement.

[Eric 9001]

Re: Motorola 3B BaseStations

As far as I can tell, base stations have had 5G, LTE, UMTS and GSM all in SDR software for years (although there may be different hardware for different bands and there's "license rent" to pay to merely offer GSM).

In practice it is fine to drop UMTS support provided GSM support is retained (as legacy devices keep working then, same as Replicant devices).

The idea of LTE is that there would be Long Term Evolution - all LTE devices would work over the long term, but newer devices would use newer techniques to transmit faster.

LTE+GSM would practically work fine.

But instead there's the incompatible "5G" and plans for "6G" and the incompatibility will continue forever.

[Natalie Gritpants Jr]

There's a lot of history rewriting in the article. We all hate all the mobile technologies as they are all overhyped. 3G got an awful lot of people into using their phones as their primary internet access device. Couldn't really do that with WAP or whatever there was before 3G. The phone companies have made their money back from the auctions, took them a bit longer than what the execs wanted, but none of them starved.

[Roland6]

"while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

According to an email I received from Three dated 18-Nov-2025:

"By 27 November 2025, our 3G coverage will be completely switched off across the UK and will no longer be available.

...

For phone/voice calls, your device must be at least 4G Calling (VoLTE) capable. Please note that some older 4G devices do not have 4G Calling (also known as VoLTE) capability and voice calls will not work on 4G without 4G Calling. "

I can confirm in my area this happened as in the weeks beforehand my 3 SIM worked in a 4G handset (Samsung Galaxy Ace 4 - No VoLTE capabilities), and now it doesn't, although it can still be used for data and texts.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: "while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

> "some older 4G devices do not have 4G Calling (also known as VoLTE) capability"

That sounds a bit crap. If- as I understand- everything on 4G, including voice calls, is effectively just an application of the packet-switched LTE data network, which the device already has to support, then why *wouldn't* you bother including it?

[Eric 9001]

Re: "while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

The reason is that VoLTE isn't standardized - every network can have custom proprietary VoLTE profiles and even a special configuration for emergency calls - thus it takes a serious amount of work to get VoLTE calls working; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_LTE?useskin=monobook#Device_compatibility_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_LTE?useskin=monobook#VoLTE_Emergency_Calling

It seems VoLTE calls were originally not very reliable either, which would explain why early LTE phones would fallback to GSM or UMTS to make calls (not considering that all carriers would be insane enough to switch both off).

An list of a small fraction of the VoLTE profiles in use is listed here; https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PinePhone#VoLTE

On some LTE networks, even network addressing is proprietary - IPv4 addressing is only allocated with 464XLAT, meaning a CLAT implementation is required - but clatd being installed isn't enough - you need to work out the network's exact addressing configuration too (if you contact the provider, they won't tell you it and won't even register that a device that is not Android or iOS with LTE+VoLTE even exists) - IPv6-only addressing would be fine if it wasn't how providers have IPv4-only MMS servers and therefore no IPv4 means no MMS.

VoLTE is at the core, proprietary versions of SIP+RTP - it would have been easier and very reliable for LTE networks to provide nothing more than an internet connection and for calls and sms's to be provided over standardized TLS SIP and SRTP - with each user being provided their account details, the domain and the ports, so they can receive calls and SMS from any network and with any SIP software - but why do that when it is imagined that making everything as proprietary as possible maximizes profits?

[Jamie Jones]

Re: "while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

Yep! I agree.

Mind you, is there anything stopping you running a SIP app, then getting a virtual phone number (SIP/DID) - even number porting your mobile number if you want to keep using it (though you'd of course lose it for 2G as you'd be porting the number away from your SIM). I realise this is beyond the effort of Joe Public, but is it doable?

I don't know enough about SIP/DID to know if there are any gotcha's here.

[Eric 9001]

Re: "while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

>is there anything stopping you running a SIP app, then getting a virtual phone number (SIP/DID) even number porting your mobile number

It can be done, but there are plenty of things stopping you (but nothing beyond Joe public if he's willing to learn how to use a computer).

First you need a SIP trunk, which only want to sell to businesses and which double, triple or quadruple charge (those charge a monthly fee for a number and also a ludicrous sum a minute for both making and receiving calls, sending SMS's and sometimes even receiving SMSs, plus those wack on a bit more for ???).

If all you need is a US or Canadian number and you'll only be contacting +1 numbers, then the costs are small - but for any other country code, the costs are ludicrous (although it you don't call or SMS often, the cost ends up less than what mobile providers charge).

Any number can be ported, but SIP Trunks demand ID to port non-US numbers and stores them forever, which guarantees future abuse.

You then need to install asterisk on your server (it's important that the server is not NAT'd - although SIP+RTP can be made to work over NAT with port forwarding (specific configuration is also needed if clients are behind NAT on another network), NAT breaks so many things that if there's NAT, the only sane choice is to use wireguard for the connection - although that requires wireguard support on the client) and configure it to handle phone calls (the dialplan, extensions and voicemail isn't that hard for only one client and number), but handling SIP MESSAGE to receive and send SMS is completely undocumented and rather difficult, as you need to mangle JSON with jq and bash.

You then enter the client login and password into any free software SIP client (linphone is one) on GNU/Linux-libre or Android or Windows (but not iOS - as iOS doesn't allow software to run in the background and the dozens of hours required to set up fragile push notifications, is far harder than just getting a dozens of computers or Android devices) and your phone works for both calls and SMS (of course things are often broken - for example SIP trunks commonly don't support IPv6, which requires configuring clients to not use IPv6 for your server that supports IPv6, as the client will try to get an audio stream over IPv6 from the SIP trunk, which hopelessly can't do it and providers often don't implement MMS and SRTP doesn't work with many clients for reasons unknown and emergency calls need specific setup and may not work).

There is (Non)FreePBX, which packages asterisk and it's meant to be automatically configured, but using that is much harder than setting up asterisk, as there's a useless GUI in the way instead of unfettered access to all the debug logs and the asterisk command line, which is required to debug why things aren't working.

There's also providers that host the SIP trunk for you like; https://jmp.chat/ but those apply their own mark-up and tend to only support US & Canada numbers for the following reason; https://jmp.chat/pricing/USD

Once it's all setup and working, you still need an internet connection for that to work (not a problem if you don't go outside, or only take calls and SMS when you're inside).

A mobile plan and a cellular modem which provide an internet connection (whether plugged into usb on a computer, or in an Android device) allows for portable service, but typically mobile plans include access to a proprietary implementation of SIP already (sometimes data-only plans at a much lower price is available, which will work fine unless you run into the CLAT problem, as the internet connection cannot be IPv6-only if the SIP trunk only supports IPv4).

[Jamie Jones]

Re: "while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

thanks for the reply. I was assuming the routing/trunk thing would be done by the people you bought your number from.

This sort of thing: https://zadarma.com/en/tariffs/numbers/united-kingdom/swansea/

If you "roll your own", how do you connect to the PSTN?

I think it's fair to assume the 4G/5G signal is working - if it isn't, the volte wouldn't work either! :-)

[Eric 9001]

Re: "while Three was understood to have concluded its process by November of last year"

>I was assuming the routing/trunk thing would be done by the people you bought your number from.

Some providers will sell you a number and also host a PBX, but that typically only works with their proprietary calling software (seemingly to prevent nice things, as you can't have those without paying a fortune).

>This sort of thing:

Yes - the costs even seem okay until you see the cost per minute of calling.

>If you "roll your own", how do you connect to the PSTN?

There is no "PSTN" anymore - it's just computers handshaking with other computers with a bunch of protocols.

You need a SIP trunk through which you can connect to the phone call computers if you roll your own.

>I think it's fair to assume the 4G/5G signal is working - if it isn't, the volte wouldn't work either! :-)

5G uses something even more proprietary and broken than VoLTE.

You could have a weak LTE signal that somewhat works for sending packets, but with packet loss and latency so high that voice calls don't work properly.

[rgjnk]

Reallocating spectrum

Have they? Really?

So far all I've seen is the old services drop out and some apparent hardware retirement/mast consolidation if the worsening signal strength on 4G and the rest is a guide.

Certainly yet to see any improvements, I'd be happy if I just got the level of coverage I used to see.

[Anonymous Coward]

Emergency services calls

Wonder how many fatalities will be attributed to calls to the emergency services failing as result of this.

As has happened in Australia.

[jokerscrowbar]

Re: Emergency services calls

Try not to die until a satellite passes overhead.

My Tesco Mobile iPhone has been sat-com only for emergency calls for a while and won’t work indoors at all. Tesco claims it’s a feature.

[Inventor of the Marmite Laser]

Re: Emergency services calls

Australia was a complete and utter clusterfuck. I was there in the immediate runup.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Emergency services calls

Australia was a complete and utter clusterfuck. I was there in the immediate runup.

I wouldn't argue with you on that. Ah… I see you just meant the decommissioning 3G and mandating 4G/VoLTE for voice.

If the chap with his daily 2G Nokia visits Australia he will quickly discover it no-workee and would not have for the last decade.

You need a a compliant 4G/VoLTE phone at a minimum — quite a few global brand phones eg Samsung won't roam for emergency 000 calls and have been or soon will be blocked from all AU networks. Some handsets can be upgraded in software some cannot. Telcos claim that direct imports are responsible but MRDA.

Even at the risk of having to wash my mouth out with carbolic Apple iPhones seem to be the best bet as they have supported VoLTE at least back to the original SE 2016 and don't appear to have the emergency roaming problem.

[Dan 55]

Re: Emergency services calls

You need a a compliant 4G/VoLTE phone at a minimum

Where in Australia "compliant" appears to mean "unless you bought the phone from us, it's blacklisted".

[shane fitzgerald]

Paging network is still up

So i wouldn’t worry too much…

[brainwrong]

What's been turned off?

I don't quite understand what's been turned off. I have an old 3G phone in the uk and it's still working just fine.

I thought 2G had been turned off in some areas, years ago when I had a 2G phone i had no service whatsoever in central bristol, the home of my network. Made getting a puncture sorted rather difficult.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: What's been turned off?

There's been no 3G where I am for ages.

Are you sure your phone isn't just dropping to 2G? That's still going.

[Richard 12]

I've no O2 signal indoors at all

And barely anything outdoors.

Ofcom's signal mapper says "There is no data available for this postcode", which I suppose is accurate, although not what they meant.

The only reason my phone works at all is because of WiFi calling.

Vodafone did have a usable signal, but it was 3G so...

[Dan 55]

Re: I've no O2 signal indoors at all

Wow, you've got working WiFi calling. Lucky you.

[Blackjack]

I will keep using my 4G phone for a few years more as 5G so far... well .. failed to meet expectations.

[ComicalEngineer]

4G? That would be nice.

From my office window in the attic I can actually see the local mast which is a couple of miles away as the crow flies. If I'm really lucky I can get 1 bar of 4G but mostly only get 3G and even then it occasionally disappears althgether or goes all Norman Collier* on me.

As for 5G, you must be joking, even opening the window and holding the phone in the air I only get 2 bars of 4G. The rest of our village is even worse with only limited Vodafone 3G at the botton of the hill and nothing from anyone else.

No, I don't live in the wilds, but in a village located a few miles from several large towns.

---------------

* Norman Collier (25 December 1925 – 14 March 2013) was a British comedian who achieved popularity following television appearances in the 1970s. He was best known for his 'faulty microphone' routine