Why do bit barns keep bumping up our bills, Senators ask DC operators

Concerned over continually rising energy costs linked to AI datacenter construction projects, three Democratic Senators are asking leading bit barn operators to explain why their promises of not passing grid expansion costs onto consumers are falling short.  Senators Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Chris Van Hollen (D-MD), and …

[jailbird]

Confused

Maybe I'm just really stupid, but... shouldn't they be asking the grid operators/electricity producers these questions, and not the DC owners whom merely use the electricity? The DC owners aren't the ones setting the electric rates that other people get charged. If the grid operators are giving DC companies preferential rates and changing others more to make up for it, then they're the ones that should be getting hammered.

And I say this as somebody who can't wait for the AI bubble to burst!

[FILE_ID.DIZ]

Re: Confused

I'm not sure why you caught (at the time of this writing) the lone vote in a downward direction.

I think you have a great question. In my mind, asking these critical questions to the generators and transmission line operators instead could move the needle further. They are, after all, regulated monopolies and it should be easier to force them disclose operating agreements and contractual obligations and communications.

And to your last point about waiting for the AI bubble to burst... I too am sitting back and waiting. I've already pared back some of my tech stock holdings, just to take some profits before the end of the year. My question is how can the company OpenAI, with just $20 billion dollars in revenue (not profit) through November 2025, expect to float $1.4TRILLION dollars in capital projects over the next eight years.

Makes absolutely no damn sense. I really hope OpenAI goes like Webvan.

[Sora2566]

Re: Confused

Ask them both, and see if their stories match.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Confused

In particular, ask themto explain 'Some areas of "significant datacenter activity" have seen wholesale electricity prices rise by as much as 267 percent in the past five years.'

[david 12]

Re: Confused

Maybe I'm just really stupid, but... shouldn't they be asking the grid operators/electricity producers these questions, and not the DC owners whom merely use the electricity? The DC owners aren't the ones setting the electric rates that other people get charged.

Not stupid, but you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Utilities absolutely are getting hammered for rate rises. The suggestion here is that DC owners are calling the shots, and should be facing some of the incoming fire.

[jailbird]

Re: Confused

HOW are they calling the shots? I can see local government incentives getting them to build the DC there, but that doesn't give the DC owner the ability to tell the power company what price they're going to pay. That kind of power would require somebody high-up in the state government (governor, PUC chairman, etc). If that's the case, then that's something that needs to be investigated.

To me this feels like somebody who has to drive a lot for work being grilled by congress why gas prices are going up. The DC owner is just a consumer.

[retiredFool]

Re: Confused

Unfortunately because of heavy regulation, the providers just conform to the formula. It really is the state/local governments fault. They are the ones who should be saying no. There was a somewhat famous local entity in Texas having a meeting and one of the members asked, "Can we just say no" to the issue of permitting another DC. There were blank stares.

In some ways the whole problem is similar to tragedy of the commons. No one forecast a situation where a single entity was going to ask for 2 GW of power all of a sudden. To be followed by several others asking. Probably because no one thought anyone had the money to pay for that much juice all of a sudden. Enter fast and break it tech with VC's bankrolling them with bonds from suckers. Government should be throttling this instead of encouraging it. PJM is having another auction and expect prices to hit the limit again. And now those auctions show they are starting to get to the point where there will be rolling blackouts in the US Northeast.

I don't see this going well. We have gone from being able to fab a few million compute transistors per day (which all consume a teeny bit of power) to fabbing Decillions per day. With those kinds of numbers even a teeny bit of juice per tran adds up to real power. And all I see is ever increasing fab'ed per day. And unfortunately from I've seen the power is no longer going down. If anything the really small ones leak a bit more.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Confused

Here in the UK, large consumers only get preferential on the condition they are the first be cut off if demand exceeds supply.

It feels like energy prices ought to be priced opposite to usual. It starts cheap and the more you use, the more the unit price goes up. That would encourage economy and the high users will subsidise the build out of capacity.

[Gary Stewart]

Re: Confused

"HOW are they calling the shots?"

Money? Promises, rarely kept of lots more jobs. Bribes, sorry I meant campaign contributions? They already get huge tax exemptions for infrastructure including but not limited to power and power delivery leaving taxpayers to pay for it. Currently Google is planning a huge data center in Dallas TX where I live and there are plenty of days of 38+ deg. C in the summer when the whole area comes close to maxing out the grid. And due to the massive amount of concrete holding in the heat it rarely gets below 34 deg. C on those nights. How will we avoid brownouts or roving blackouts when these HUGH data centers put us over the top? Will they just shut down and leave their customers, and their revenue stream high and dry for hours? If they plan to build backup power to solve this problem why not just go all in and build (and PAY for) all the power they need and pass the cost on to their customers which is supposedly the way their precious capitalism works. Because money makes the world go round, especially if you have HUGH BOATLOADS more than most.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: Confused

I'm baffled - people PAY to use AI?

[Gary Stewart]

Re: Confused

No, it uses AI to magically pay for itself. /s

[Zolko]

Re: Confused

@Gary : no sarcasm, it's the old story of the Baron von Münchhausen lifting himself out of moving sands by pulling himself by his own hair. Or a perpetum mobile where an electric motor drives a generator which powers the electric motor. Let's see whether OpenAI has managed to cheat on the laws of physics. I just hope we have enough popcorn to enjoy the spectacle

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Confused

I would have replied in your latest post in the Mamdani thread, but obviously the moderators here consider that liberal democracy only applies when you say good things about it, so… talking about Germany:

--

Aha! A fellow cold war veteran?

Ukraine… I am familiar with the country, let's not even talk about it.

I am of a generation who still had contact with those who lived through, and fought in, WWII, and it's insane to see how the West has managed to impose a narrative that bears no resemblance to anything the people who actually experienced the events (on whichever side) would tell you.

This 2015 article by Ishaan Tharoor, originally published in the Washington Post in May 2015, explains how things went:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soviet-union-helped-save-the-world-from-hitler-a7020926.html

If westerners (and westernised Eastern Europeans) these days had an idea wihat Russia went through back then, things would be different. This is not about Putin, as the Western media caricatures it. I'm part of the camp that lost about ~6 million of us and I know exactly how I feel about the Germans (especially now when they decide to aid and abet in the colonial genocide of the Palestinians). I can't even start to imagine how the camp that lost ~26 million of them must feel about that scoundrel.

--

PS: it's ok if you call the Russians names, but do not dare to do that with the Germans here. You are not allowed. That's right, the Nazi camp are the good guys in the West in 2025. :(

[FIA]

Re: Confused

You PAY to use everything.

It's worth remembering that, especially if you're not handing over cash directly.... ask yourself what you are giving up.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: Confused

My reading of the article was that the DC companies should have been paying for the capex but weren't. As always with these things the answers can be more confusing than the questions.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Confused

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. This is all just blame shifting by the politicians who are trying to force us all to use the grid for everything.

In NYS the electric suppliers are monopolies, heavily embedded with the State, and the State still feels justified in banning any other energy use in new construction. No conflict of interest there. I'm certian they won't blame Data Centers or Micron for the skyrocketing energy costs, when constituents are freezing.

[Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch]

Good news

My surplus will be more valuable.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Good news

Funny. What will really happen is new laws will be passed. Your newly required smart meter will cut your house off while more valuable customers get your panel output. Tampering with your panels will carry a large fine.

[Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch]

Re: Good news

If my panel outputs don't make a profit or get stored, they stop.

[mcswell]

Re: Good news

I keep thinking that too, but I suspect what will happen instead is that your connection costs (a flat rate, usually billed monthly that keeps you connected to the grid so you can get electricity at night or on cloudy days) will just go up. A lot.

[NetMage]

When Apple built a nearby data center they bought the land to put in enough solar to cover the power needs of their center. Of course, this was before AI greatly increased the need for power.