Windows 11 needs an XP SP2 moment, says ex-Microsoft engineer

The Windows operating system is buckling under AI features that seem designed more for shareholders than users, and retired Microsoft engineer Dave Plummer says it's time to hit pause. "It's time for Microsoft to have another XP SP2 moment," said Plummer, who worked on Windows XP during a pivotal period more than two decades …

[Bluto Nash]

"Just for one release," he said. "Just till it doesn't suck."

Those appear to be mutually exclusive, unfortunately.

[Tron]

'we stopped trying to add value'

Don't worry. MS stopped adding value to Windows in 2010.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: 'we stopped trying to add value'

The UI: Yes, they stopped adding value. But below the UI they did. Tons of network improvement, bundling adapter not done by driver manufacturer any more, SMB3 (which was nearly named SMB2.2) brought speed improvement and transparent automatic bundling of two network adapters (each with their own IP) to double the speed and have transparent failover at the same time. Other things are Storage Spaces, actually good working deduplication with sane defaults for servers (Until 2022, I still have my bug open for a specific scenario), improved Hyper-V and so on. Then Satya Nadella came... How bad must it be for wishing Steve Ballmer back?

[jetjet]

Re: 'we stopped trying to add value'

You are missing the point. All these things you are listing are server features, not desktop one (XP was also desktop one). Microsoft confuses server versus desktop OSes for a long time.

[Pascal Monett]

It must be said that I recall a lot of IT guys who used Windows NT as their desktop OS for a long time.

[Admiral Grace Hopper]

IT girls too. It was that or Win 3.11

[MyffyW]

Proud to have been one of the girls rocking NT4 on my desktop whilst I shook my tresses to Dubstar back '96

[8BitGuru]

Say the worst thing first.

[ICL1900-G3]

A comment that will get this geriatric happily through this cold, wet day. Thank you, Myffy.

[MyffyW]

Kohl-black eyeliner and crystal-cut vocals set to an ethereal synth-and-guitar set up. Always going to brighten your day :-)

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell yeah. Windows 2000 Server as a desktop OS as well...it ran faster than the desktop variant. Quite considerably so because it was very stripped back...and yet you could still install DirectX etc. In between 98 and XP thats where all the ME refugees hung out.

[kmorwath]

Windows NT had a desktop version. Using the server version as a desktop system was useless - but sysadmin have to show off....

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: 'we stopped trying to add value'

How long, and how much money, does it take to make a workable desktop OS? I'll accept that there need to be periodic improvements, but shouldn't Windows be pretty much "finished" after 30 years?

In any case, wouldn't it by now be modular, so that improving, for example, the networkd drivers, wouldn't break the entire OS?

[Fluffy Cactus]

Re: 'we stopped trying to add value'

Actually it went like this:

Windows 95 was released, with great marketing effort, but before it really worked.

Bought it, tried it, uninstalled it, went back to Win 3.11

Only with Win 98 2nd ed were the bug removed.

Learned not to trust any MSFT marketing. Skipped Win 2000, skipped Windows ME.

Waited to adopt Win XP, until the complaints subsided with Win XP 2nd.

Skipped Vista (Good choice)

Eventually had to upgrade to Win 7, when they forced me to, which worked ok.

Later tested Win 8 at the computer shop, which came exactly with zero instructions, so it was useless.

Astonished that these people could not explain anything if their lives depended on it.

Waited until Win 10, using it still. And I refuse Win 11, because MSFT is not listening to me.

Funny, they ought to know by now that I mean well. ;-)

But if no change, I can't use Win 11, because of the RECALL security issue.

They don't mention RECALL it anymore, but it's still there, and I dislike it enough to refuse it.

[Dan 55]

Windows 11 is pretty bad

A few days ago, my work computer's keyboard, mouse, and sound stopped working when I woke it from sleep.

As I use a USB hub I checked cables, the hub, keyboard, mouse, speakers, but not the computer as I expected that to work. Turns out it was the computer as no USB port would work. It needed rebooting to bring them back.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

I've noticed erratic USB performance after sleep on W11 (Dell laptop, enterprise build). Seems it's a feature.

[AndrueC]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

I think it might be a recent update. My second laptop which is kept permanently docked and has a USB keyboard wouldn't respond to keyboard yesterday. I found that unplugging it and replugging it brought it back to life. It's not done that before.

[MyffyW]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

My Win11 corporate device was just off the other day after returning from a 10 minute tea break. Not "simple press of the button starts it up" nor even BSOD, but properly lights-out, hung and unresponsive*

[* I am aware, after typing, that "hung and unresponsive" has miles of comedy potential, so off you go, have that one on me]

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

> [*

We are aware, but those are two separate issues. The first is a genetic thing, or chirurgical in some parts of the world which are crazy enough, the latter depends on the partner.

[J. Cook]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

Had the same thing happen to me as well; I had to hold the power button down long enough for the hardware's ME (or watchdog) to catch it and forcibly power it off. Came back up OK, but still...

[SteveK]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

A few weeks ago my work W11 laptop decided to upgrade the bluetooth drivers with no warning, displaying a note at the end that a reboot would be needed for devices to work again, leaving me with no mouse and headphones halfway through a meeting.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

"leaving me with no mouse and headphones halfway through a meeting"

Are you complaining or boasting?

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

Check for BIOS updates. Since USB is not part of "UI and "Features" my experience is that it is pretty solid, except when the BIOS does wrong initialization or has wrong entries in the APIC tables. Other things. Simply look into your devmgmt.msc for your USB ports and devices, specifically the "Energy management" tab. If you installed extra drivers for that USB port, uninstall with "remove driver", and then let it rediscover. An important hint for the latter: Start a CMD with admin rights beforehand, and type in "shutdown -r -f -t 300" before removing the device you keyboard or mouse might be on. You can "shutdown -a" if the procedure succeeds, else it will do a clean reboot after five minutes. This is more elegant that hitting the power button, similar methods are common for Linux too. You can to that USB drive cleanup via RDP too.

[Dan 55]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

This is why people say don't install Linux as you'll have to run arcane commands on it to fix problems, stick with Windows as it's user friendly.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

To copy an old trope applied to another specific OS: "it is user friendly, but selective" :D.

Currently it is wacko, a lot. Sadly the first base parts start to rot too. And I suppose it will get a lot worse until somewhere 2027. We will see.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

Tell us you haven't used modern Desktop Linux, without saying that you haven't used modern Desktop Linux.

[LBJsPNS]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

WHOOOOOOOOOOOSH

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

Linux isn't perfect by a long ways but the enshittification of Windows OS has developed now to the point where it is less user friendly than a mainstream Linux distro.

I have both W11 and Linux machines, regularly I encounter that W11 will fail to function at a basic level and I cannot fix it (notably dealing with USB external storage drives). Microsoft now hides settings away making anything very difficult to fix. Yes Linux can be janky but at least I can fix it. Might take a bit of a search (ironically the AI MS is forcing down everyone's throats is quite good at helping troubleshoot a linux install) but you can fix it.

then you have the MS data grab for it's AI training packages. Yes you have opt out option but keeping them toggled is like playing whack-a-mole when every MS update tries to switch them back or get you to switch them / miss them through some dark pattern.

MS is basically anti-consumer now, delivering a minimal product that is actually designed as a data collection / marketing tool not an OS.

[MyffyW]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

Honestly, exactly this. I'm actually happier troubleshooting a Linux desktop than anything post-Windows 7

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

...because at least you know that the OS manufacturer isn't actively working to thwart your efforts...

[BobChip]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

I am with you on this. It is FAR easier to sort out a Linux bug than a Win (10 or 11 - you pick) bug. Mainly because Linux online help files and forums tend to offer helpful - and mostly concise and accurate - advice. Unlike MS "resources". I would far rather have to resort to the Terminal / command line in a Linux OS than in anything made by Microsoft. Just my personal IMHO

[kmorwath]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

If some device does weird things, it may not be easy to fix on any OS. There was a case years ago of a Logitech webcam driver that messed up the USB stack creating audio issues - and it wasn't properly uninstalled by Logitech setup application. Cleaning it requries some deep knowledge of how drivers are installed, especially filtrer ones.

It should be something a nomal user should not ever have to do, but when the OEM fails and you are there with a malfunctioning system, special rules apply.

At least you aren't left with a non-working system because old nVidia cards no longer work....

[bombastic bob]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

it's more fun to gripe about it and compete with other horror stories on who's had the worst experience with "Windows II"

The single worst thing about it is that next year's tax software will require Windows II to install. I'm considering setting up a special wine build and trying an install on that, see how well it works. Sadly I have no clue on what the '.Not' crap will do if i attempt a Wine install... 10 never worked with my HP printer/scanner combo and I'm sure 11 won't, either, so I've had to print to PDF, copy to BSD or Linux, then print to the printer if I need hard copy. Similar for scanning [SANE works perfectly as well as CUPS, go fig for Micros~1...]

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

It's sound driver for me that keep failing on W11 particularly on the work machine. Not just me either very regularly after a W11 update you find a whole bunch of people who have no sounds or misfiring audio/microphones. Which is great when everyone lives on Teams now.

[J. Cook]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

Windows 10 was also a bit notorious for doing that as well, which is why I got tired of going to do a 'let's play' stream with friends only to find that, 15 minutes prior to the start, that the audio decided to stop playing nicely. I ended up going full analog for mic and an iPad mini with a soundboard app connected to it, all going into the computer's line-in jack. (i.e., move the complexity off the computer and into hardware which is well known, well understood, and Just Works (tm).

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Windows 11 is pretty bad

"Hello, IT...have you tried turning it off and on again? Right, bye!"

[theOtherJT]

The tragedy is...

...that people like Dave here aren't valued any more. I'm not quite as old as Dave, but even in my 20ish year career* it's become very obvious that the older guys have been very deliberately replaced by people who won't argue with management when they decide to do something dumb for the sake of "shareholder value" or to chase whatever the latest fad is.

The ones who were there back in the day, when the company was first starting out and had sufficient seniority to turn around to their project manager and say "No, we're not doing that, it's stupid" and get away with it have been ground down over time until the only ones left are the burnt out just-coming-in-for-the-paycheque types who don't care any more, and the younger grads who either don't know any better, or are too afraid of upsetting their promotion prospects to speak out.

* Not at Microsoft, but the same thing has happened in every private business I've worked for.

[Like a badger]

Re: The tragedy is...

As a certified old buzzard, I can assure you that speaking out of turn is never welcome. I've never felt compelled to keep my politer opinions to myself, but experience is that this never resulted in me gaining a reputation as Badger The Enlightened, Who Went On To Great Things By Pointing Out The Errors Of Management, but it did result in a reputation of Badger The Curmudgeon, Who Was Frequently Bollocked, Was Passed Over For Promotion, And Top Of The List For the Next Downsizing.

And it's no help being right, either. If you're wrong, then of course it's unwelcome, but if you're right then it's doubly unwelcome.

So, kiddies, keep thy traps shut, tug thine forelocks, and openly admire the Emperor's New Clothes. Worship today's false god of AI (or before it blockchain and every other shitty fad), build your skills, take every training or development opportunity, listen to the old buzzards (but only in private), and move job every three years. Except when you get to late 40's, as (excepting some specific skills) business is remarkably ageist and past 50 your CV stands a 75% chance of going in the shredder just because the job spec they forgot to publish includes "young, dynamic arselicker required to agree with management". So in your late 40s you'll want to be putting down some roots, or looking for a role that will enable you to do so unless you got lucky and are already minted.

[Thinks: Can I charge for this invaluable advice]

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: The tragedy is...

Not always keep your traps shut, but give your brain some time to think it through. As for "the 50's": I actually have quite a number of opportunities open, since experience builds a good method of doing things. But currently I see no reason to run away from my employer, reasonably humane enough to stay. But I am in a country where "hire and fire, no reason needed" is frowned upon.

[David Hicklin]

Re: The tragedy is...

> Not always keep your traps shut, but give your brain some time to think it through

One good bit of advice I had from a manager was that as you are thinking it through you also need to decide is it a hill worth dying on in a last stand, or would it be better to retreat and live to fight for a better cause another day.

[J. Cook]

Re: The tragedy is...

I'd upvote you twice if I could.

Just like the refrain from the song The Gambler: "You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em. know when to walk away, know when to run."

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: The tragedy is...

"past 50 your CV stands a 75% chance of going in the shredder"

Time was that this was when freelance opened up opportunities but NewLabour put an end to that with IR35.

[Ensign Nemo]

Re: The tragedy is...

I believe the first draft of the lyrics for “Everbody’s free (to wear sunscreen)” was almost exactly this.

[Roland6]

Re: The tragedy is...

> "past 50 your CV stands a 75% chance of going in the shredder"

Shredder? That would suggest some level of security awareness, general waste bin more likely, if you are lucky it might go in the recycling bin.

[Sweet FA]

Re: The tragedy is...

> Not at Microsoft, but the same thing has happened in every private business I've worked for.

I was at MS from 1993-2017. It happened there, too. From what I hear via colleagues who are still there, it's just gotten worse.

[PhilipN]

Name like "Dave..."?

In an era of AI, asking for trouble.

[bombastic bob]

Re: The tragedy is...

Summarty: as with Gnome, Poettering's follies, Open Desktop [with their Wayland/Gnome fetish], and several other projects that have gone the wrong direction (including WINDOWS)...

When the Ents retire, the noobs are NOW running the show. They rapidly rub their palms together and, with a sinister grin, claim "It is **OUR** turn NOW!"

And like in Arthur C. Clarke's "Superiority" they start re-inventing everything according to their own image of what it SHOULD be, ignoring what users/customers want, because it is THEIR TURN now!

And THEN, Windows 7.1 becomes Windows 8 with TIFKAM!!! And it all flows downhill from there, right into the nearest cesspit of FAIL.

[Uncle William]

What will all the m$oft employees do if you stop them from writing new features with yet more bugs to be fixed?

[nijam]

Personally, I think it needs a "Ratner moment".

[Paul Crawford]

Oh they do it all the time, but people are such OS masochists and keep paying to be abused.

[Ilgaz]

Better idea, Hancock moment

Before Steve Jobs, Hancock saved Apple so they could survive until he came to rescue them.

She was the one who decided the Apple's OS rescue operation (Copland etc) is a mess which can't be salvaged and stopped them from using their last resources for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Hancock?wprov=sfla1

Ms Windows division needs someone to tell the truth.

[Pascal Monett]

Re: Better idea, Hancock moment

No, the MS Windows division needs someone to listen to the truth.

But when the top brass is gobsmacked that meer users don't understand the godliness of the AI that is being bestowed upon them in Redmonds' altruistic kindness, what do you expect ?

[sarusa]

There's no slowing down this fecal train

> Fast forward two decades and Microsoft is stuffing Windows with AI features while seemingly ignoring user complaints about performance and reliability.

Not seemingly, absolutely ignoring user complaints and very major performance and reliability issues, like the update they just released that tanked game frame rates by 30-50%. NVidia issues an emergency driver patch but that should not have been their responsibility. Windows 11 is on a long slippery shitslope with no sign of slowing down, sorry Dave. Nadella is firmly on the AI fecal hype train, can't admit he was wrong now.

If Valve ever releases a desktop SteamOS that I can just put on my current desktop I am seriously considering switching. Or at least spending most of my time in that (it's just Linux that can play a lot of games) and switching to Windows when absolutely necessary.

[Peter2]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

I've ended up switching to Linux Mint because Microsoft wants me to replace my not horribly old gaming PC (AMD Ryzen with 8 cores (16 with hyperthreading) and 32GB of RAM and with a tolerably decent graphics card just because Windows won't support fairly modern hardware, and I found that replacing the OS was less hassle.

I haven't had the slightest problem with gaming on it. The Steam launcher runs just as on Windows and Windows games run on it with no hassle. Interestingly, i'd say with less hassle than on Windows for older games. The performance is comparable, if not better. Really old DOS games certainly work much better on Linux than under Windows, and without needing to put the slightest bit of effort into the configuration. It's also got a Steam like launcher called Heroic Games Launcher for GOG, Epic Games and Amazon prime games which functions basically the same way as Steam.

I'd suggest downloading Linux Mint and sticking it on a USB drive and then you can boot from that USB drive and try it, without actually installing it per se.

~25 years ago when I did this with Suse 7 I ended up switching back to Windows to run various things so often that I eventually ended up remaining with Windows.

I haven't loaded Windows since installing Mint, other than to test that the boot loader option for Windows functioned correctly.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

"I'd suggest downloading Linux Mint and sticking it on a USB drive and then you can boot from that USB drive and try it, without actually installing it per se."

I beg to differ. Unless you are very short of disc space, you should grab a copy of Virtual box and install Mint on that, using Windows as the host. Longer term, you can swap the two around and use Mint as your main OS and a Windows VM for the apps that you can't find a good replacement for.

(Yes, other Linuxes and VM managers are available. I don't use either of the above, but we're looking for something that will almost certainly work and for which the interwebs will provide adequate support during the transition.)

[mattaw2001]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

In the USA Broadcom has made VMWare workstation free for personal and commercial use, and it's 3D guest acceleration for windows guests on linux hosts is very capable, much better than Virtualbox hosting windows guests on linux hosts to the point I can run complex CAD software.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

An information to this: VMware workstation was always free for private use, then broadcom bought it, locked the free workstation out, which caused a really big shit storm, and then made it avail again. So your "Broadcom has made VMWare workstation free for personal" is simply wrong facts. Please check your sources, they might give you wrong information.

[mattaw2001]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

Erm, did you forget to Google before posting?

It's been free for personal, educational, and commercial use for a year now:

https://blogs.vmware.com/cloud-foundation/2024/11/11/vmware-fusion-and-workstation-are-now-free-for-all-users/

.

[collinsl]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

VMWare Workstation PLAYER always used to be free, the actual workstation product was not. Otherwise why would these people I know who I don't know the names of and who are definitely not me have to torrent the latest version in order to get it for years?

[Rich 2]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

While virtual box works, the demands of windows means that the guest os you have running in the vm is strangled. I ran Linux in vb at work on a machine with 8 cores and could only allocate a couple of cores to Linux in the vm. Any more and the whole thing came crashing down. Not really a fault of vb (as far as I know)

[bombastic bob]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

I'd suggest downloading Linux Mint and sticking it on a USB drive and then you can boot from that USB drive

I made one of those recently for a couple of reasons, a Devuan live system that so far works on whatever I plug it into (assuming amd64 instruction set). Used it last week to change hard drives in a windows 7 system. dd is just too easy, ya know? if=old_drive, of=new_drive, wait an hour or 2, drive swap, then boot up. Had to ignore errors in dd (conv=noerror) and on boot, told windows to fix itself [old HD was not booting past that point]. A couple of minor issues, and expand NTFS partition to fit the new drive, and voila, running better than evar!

A 512Gb USB drive is VERY affordable, easily holds a full desktop system using Linux, and Linux drive tools help you fix systems like what I just got done doing. [a USB 3 to SATA thingy helps a LOT for copying to the new drive, though]

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: There's no slowing down this fecal train

Happily using Mint at home since switching from Ubuntu in protest of the "Unity" desktop.

Used Windows (and Linux) at work, with increasing frustration due to Windows and slowly converted my boss (SW guy) to Linux. IT guys all supported my use of a (technically illegal) Linux system alongside my official Windows machine, for doing the stuff Windows made difficult. I cannot say enough good things about an OS that started out as a hack and ended up being head-to-head as good (or better) than what a multibillion dollar corporation could produce. It seems to me that Windows is pretty far along the path to "corporate use only" as most individual users seem to be getting frustrated with the way it's evolving. Maybe, maybe not, but I see Linux being mentioned a lot, as a friendlier alternative for the individual user.

[elsergiovolador]

Wait

I can't wait microsoft to charge per keystroke or mouse miles.

I heard they stuffed Notepad with Crapilot now.

To be fair I wish that I could access Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot in Copilot, but that's maybe for Windows 12.

[keithpeter]

Re: Wait

@elsergiovolador and all

That post gave me big 'L 99 99 99 99 99...' vibes as from a broken Slackware bootloader.

As I tend to post on these occasions, Jack Welch is waving. It is all shareholder value stuff. At the end of the day does Microsoft actually need consumer users? Is Windows on laptops you buy from a high street shop or off Dell or some other retail supplier actually an important part of their revenue?

[Peter2]

Re: Wait

At the end of the day does Microsoft actually need consumer users?

From one particular point of view retail is probably utterly irrelevant to Microsoft's bottom line.

From another; having been somewhat involuntarily forced to Linux Mint from Windows (as a 8 core/16 threat processor with 32GB of RAM is no supported by Windows) the greater familiarity I am gaining with Linux on an ongoing basis is making it steadily more likely that i'm going to end up deploying it at work as a server at some point. That prospect ought to keep people at Microsoft up late at night if they can think a few steps ahead.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Wait

"That prospect ought to keep people at Microsoft up late at night if they can think a few steps ahead."

All evidence to date is that MS don't think ahead unless forced to at gun point. and it needs to be a very big gun !!!

MS don't care about Linux because so much of the world is locked into Win11 +++.

Very few companies will make the leap to Linux as it is seen as too risky.

The usual scare stories will be rolled out, about Linux being too difficult for 'Average Joe/Joannas' to handle.

MS will never go away, there will always be a large population that MUST keep using MS OSes etc.

After Win 8, 10, 11 it is about time MS managed to produce a successful OS.

I will not hold my breath ... just in case !!!!

:)

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Wait

"The usual scare stories will be rolled out, about Linux being too difficult for 'Average Joe/Joannas' to handle."

But if MS head to producing something the 'Average Joe/Joannas' can't handle that doesn't wash. Even worse if hey're buyin ChromeOS at their local PC shop.

[0laf]

Re: Wait

I think that's it really. For home users (not gaming so much) Linux has been perfectly usable for a long time. Now the gaming stuff is much improved.

But it's not Linux that is winning users it is MS that is losing them.

W11 doesn't work for them or the upgrade from W10 is too expensive. Some will move to Linux but I suspect the majority of users that move away from MS will be people who just give up on the format and start to use a phone or tablet for everything.

Businesses won't shift, but the sovereignty concerns caused by the Great Orange Leader might start to move those rusty gears for government. If nothing else they might well force a legal split in the hyperscalers into US/EU entities

[Pascal Monett]

There is a very big gun coming Redmonds' way : Switzerland is starting it.

I'm thinking that all European governments worth anything will soon follow suit.

And when governments start switching en masse to Linux (yeah, I'm dreaming for the moment), the top brass at Redmond are going to start shitting their expensive underwear. The problem is it'll be too late.

Redmond has a long history of deciding it knows better. It just might find out that it sidelined itself from its best revenue line.

One can only hope.

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: Wait

Sadly true. MS target market is not people like us.

[drankinatty]

Re: Wait

Does kinda grow on you after a while.... After 25 years of Linux desktop use (and with the stable of windows boxes as well), ultimately you learn from a rudimentary functional standpoint, there's not much of a difference. You install, your drives are configured, the OS is installed, basic graphics is setup and your network is configured to use DHCP by default, it just works. You point the mouse at the menu, and click and your app opens, it just works. There are only a few apps where the Linux equivalents still lag (Quickbooks a notable one). On the other hand, there are 1000's of fantastic apps for Linux that simply have no counterpart on windows (or none you can get without built-in malware).

Twenty years ago, hardware support was the big divider for all but the bleeding-edge or obscure one-off hardware. On balance, Linux has done a very good job with driver support, and it's no longer the dividing factor it once was.

Then you start using Linux a bit more, discovery the development tools and command line utilities and the fact you have a full array of server apps at your finger-tips that makes exchange look like your grandmothers blown-out station-wagon, the vector and bitmap graphic tools and utilities, and the list goes on and on. Twenty years ago, the joke was if you think "I wish I had a program to do ... xyz", there is a good chance somebody has already written it, and it is packaged for your distro. If you find it, but it's not packaged for your distro, then you just pick your favorite compiler and build it yourself.

Now obviously this is just a superficial scratch of the proverbial surface, but as someone who has used both in a small business, developed on both, created work-product on both, and on and on, the more windows "'supposedly got better" with each release from 3.1, 95, 98, me, XP, Vista, 7, 10 -- the more Linux really did. (sorry can't help with 11, it Linux only after 10)

That puts me in Mr. Plummer's age group, and I couldn't agree more. The shareholders may be wanting to see the endless AI bloat premised on some undefined future return on investment. Though I wonder how tolerant a public will remain subsidizing the technology designed to take their jobs? Perhaps that's where the return on investment lies, and their just not giving us the complete picture yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Wait

Windows (mostly) did get better for a while 95 > 98SE > 2k > XP > W7

At that point I guess there was no more headroom to derive their +15% shareholder value every year except to exploit the customer base and cut the development budget.

At this rate W12 will be a Tesla bot that breaks into your house graffities your walls with adverts for Temu, installs Copilot on your fridge then steals your paper work and wallet.

[kmorwath]

" You point the mouse at the menu, and click and your app opens"

Just, you don't find the apps you need because there is no Linux version.... and the Linux equivalents suck. Because Linux is not a friendly platform for commercial apps, and it's GUI framworks are worse than Windows 3.1 was over thrity years ago.

[David Hicklin]

Re: Wait

> From one particular point of view retail is probably utterly irrelevant to Microsoft's bottom line.

Indeed it is the big corporate/government users that matter to them and they are so wedded into the windows ecosystems that it will take a pretty catastrophic blunder from M$ to shift them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Wait

Having worked for some giant corporations and large bits of government I can with confidence say that MS does not give two shits about those customer either.

In fairness I've also been told sories of Apple telling entire governments to piss off with their 'suggestions'.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Wait

I remember it as "LI                                             "

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Wait

"consumer users" and "school users" end up becoming business users. Microsoft very much needs the public at large to see them as the desktop solution. If anyone breaks Microsoft's stranglehold on the desktop OS market, they will have a HUGE in, into the server market, where Linux already holds a lot of market share for specific workloads.If OpenText ever gets smart and takes eDirectory Open Source so that it can be deployed on all Linux Server Operating Systems - the entire market could shift.

[Anonymous Coward]

We need a cheapo version of win11

What we need is a cheapo massively reduced version like a realtime OS core with just the basics and a few essential "apps" no AI and no ads., spyware or MS account, but something that aalows adding the necessary libraries etc for other external or MS apps.

Many of us would be willing to pay more for less.

[theOtherJT]

Re: We need a cheapo version of win11

Not going to get one of those tho, are we? Because let's be honest even the idiots at Microsoft know in their heart of hearts that that is the version that everyone actually wants, and the sales numbers would sink their "Everyone loves us for our excellent feature set and the massive value all our AI products add!" line by the end of the first quarter as everyone stopped buying the full-fat version.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: We need a cheapo version of win11

I had to re-read that as I thought it was "... the full-tat version."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: We need a cheapo version of win11

Just debloat it -

https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat

[Arkeo]

CEOs making the same mistakes?

Nadella (and many others) need the Gelsinger treatment.

[Swordfish1]

I just want an OS that works - Sick of all this AI crap I hardly ever use.

I've already moved a laptop over to Linux Ubuntu, because it fairly old and doesn't meet MS hardware requirements,

Can get it to work with Windows 11, using work arounds, but it was just too slow - so I erased Windows, and installed Ubuntu.

The 2 recently built towers, might follow, if MS keeps on faffing around and not listening to its users, or if they become too slow.

ATM they are fine - but every update is a constant dread - will it F*** up and cause me more grief.

CS

[ecofeco]

Well, one can dream

But you know, wish in one hand....

[may_i]

Win11 needs a different moment

One called

rm -rf *

[TechnoTechno]

Needs a few things really. Firing their UI Department would be a good start in addition.

[MrRtd]

Agreed! Windows 11 start menu is atrocious. I'm annoyed every time I use it.

[TVU]

That is where third party softwares like Start11 and StartIsBack are useful as they bring back a sane Windows 7-like menu.

[ChrisElvidge]

Start11 doesn't do that, by itself. I paired it with Explorer Patcher to get back to Windows10 menu style - adding directories to taskbar. Obv. Stardock don't recommend this, but for my case (Windows11 VM on Slackware Current) it works, when I can be bothered with it.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

The current "Boss of windows department" would need to go before. 'cause he is driving the Longhorn 2.0 direction, but is too blind to see.

[Anonymous Coward]

Solving a problem that does not exist ....

MS don't have a UI Dept ... that is the problem !!!

People who knew something about UI design and Usability have long since been sacked by MS.

The UI skills in MS are, from the looks of it, whoever draws the short straw and they make the existing UI worse & worse each time.

Win 11 is a Fisher-price themed mess that no-one would ask for, usability in Win 11 and most of the Office apps has been ignored for years.

The majority of users are locked-in because there is little alternative that they can 'simply' switch to ... this means that MS can do whatever they want and STILL not lose users.

:)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Solving a problem that does not exist ....

It's sad that if you were to 's/MS/GNOME/g' this is all still pretty accurate.

[theOtherJT]

Re: Solving a problem that does not exist ....

Gnome's UI is massively better than Windows 11's. Much more consistent and intuitively laid out. I mean, it's a horrible bloated mess if you go anywhere near the actual code, but it's way easier to use than Windows has become.

[kmorwath]

Re: Solving a problem that does not exist ....

No XP was a Fisher-Price design. Now the UI looks more a Lego set from the 1970s....

[mikus]

It's not a bug, it's a feature...

Windows doesn't always suck because it's buggy and needs patching like XP certainly did, it sucks because it is nothing more than a spyware and adverting delivery platform for microsoft now, people just also happen to still try to use it as a desktop OS unknowingly. The bloat is simply astounding when using an unmolested home version of the OS packed with ads and games down to the desktop, taskbar, and menus. Even notepad shows you a persistent ad for Copilot now, because what the hell else would you do with AI in a notepad?

I've been using claude code lately, and it's honestly a changing experience for me, so I get why agents could be useful built into the desktop, but it's not useful when you can't trust the tool, and you simply cannot trust Microsoft for anything privacy related anymore.

At this point they've mostly enslaved an entire generation or two of the world population, knowing only Windows for a PC experience, trained on it in schools from early on through college, and having watched it for 25 years as a linux/unix user it genuinely disgusts me. It's like letting the drug dealer set up shop in your schools with your children, first hit is always free you know.

Now you'll take this AI slop we give you and damn well like paying for it too.

[Nightkiller]

Mustafa Suleyman is blowing a lot of AI mind trying to impress people.

[Long John Silver]

Distinguishing an operating system from what rides upon it

On mainframes and the early generations of personal computer, an operating system (OS) was something of little concern to most end-users. When mainframes were fed with paper tape, punched cards, and magnetic tape, an ordinary user needed to bother little over anything beyond using a high-level program, e.g. FORTRAN, Algol, and COBOL, to handle inputted data and thereafter persuade the beast to spew out results on the selected medium. Initially, the introduction of dumb-terminals merely sped-up the cycle of input/output interactions between the user and the computer. The introduction of an option for interpreted BASIC, and similar, changed the dynamic for many users, but not their relationship to the by then multitasking OS.

VDUs rapidly advanced in their importance to users. Their low-level data/output display (initially CRT) capabilities were, and remain, wholly in the realm of the OS; however, the basics provided by the OS are exploitable in useful ways by higher levels of software. The Microsoft concept of an API marked the distinction. PCs and mainframes/servers these days have many options for interactions and distributing workloads. Early varieties of PC DOS provided little beyond interaction via text, i.e. input and output. The arrival of MS Windows, and a few competitors, changed the game irrevocably.

The question arises to where the lines between OS vendor, front-end programmers, and individual users, should be drawn. In the world of proprietary, closed-source, software, this has consequences for users seeking privacy and control over their data. At present, people do retain choices.

When Windows first appeared, it was a mass-market innovation based on concepts (some claimed as proprietary by other sources) which hitherto had little impinged on the public. Up to, let us say, NT and XP, Windows was a simple to install, increasingly reliable, and trustworthy agent, which didn't unnecessarily intrude upon users' desired way of doing things.

Now, partly in an effort to protect naive users from their own stupidity, yet with some imputable 'big brother' intentions, matters which once were under the control of buyers of the software, have been obscured and/or remain untouchable under the bonnet; for example, some activities of Windows Defender, compulsory updates, and requirements to call-home to Microsoft. People desperate to contain some of Windows' questionable actions and to diminish the garish nature of the Windows GUI may only partially succeed. Everyone using the 'home' version has a thoroughly locked-down system, seemingly dedicated to marketing Microsoft and 'trusted partner' products. Whether 'trusted partners' now include 'security' snoopers, copyright rentier enforcement agencies, and suchlike is moot.

In conclusion, Microsoft Windows has aged like Dorian Gray: outwardly gross and inwardly soulless.

[captain veg]

"Just till it doesn't suck."

That won't happen until Microsoft releases a vacuum cleaner.

-A.

[vincent himpe]

Re: "Just till it doesn't suck."

ahh. vacuum cleaners. The only product that sucks if it doesn't suck ....

[Uncle Slacky]

Re: "Just till it doesn't suck."

Nothing sucks like a VAX...

[theOtherJT]

Re: "Just till it doesn't suck."

You know, if they did it would probably be really good. Microsoft have such a weird history of being a software company that regularly mysteriously creates great hardware. (...and arguably lousy software.)

[Anonymous Coward]

I upgraded to Linux from W10 and have been delighted so far.

[Fara82Light]

Bug

Microsoft is the bug. Take the red pill and go open source.

[Fara82Light]

Apple

Apple could do with taking the same advice following its recent releases of macOS and iPadOS.

[Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch]

Re: Apple

They have "disable Siri" and "disable Apple Intelligence" front and centre in System Settings. Worth the price premium? That's an individual decision.

[Pirate Peter]

Re: Apple

I have done that on my several Mac machines and phones,

I do wonder if they collect stats on how many devices have siri and Apple UNintelligence diasabled

it would be an interesting stat to know

[Fara82Light]

Re: Apple

Siri is not the problem; it is the lack of stability and the poor workmanship that are of concern.

[TVU]

"The Windows operating system is buckling under AI features that seem designed more for shareholders than users, and retired Microsoft engineer Dave Plummer says it's time to hit pause. "It's time for Microsoft to have another XP SP2 moment," said Plummer"

^ I fully agree with Dave Plummer and Win 11 should be purged of all the AI and other bloat and turned into a lean, functional and relatively bug free operating system that is user friendly.

[Doctor Syntax]

Shareholders ultimately depend on users. Pissing on users views is not a good long term strategy.

[chivo243]

I get the feeling that Desktop Users are not high on the worry list at M$. I'm guessing the Cloud division generates much more revenue than the Desktop OS division, Shareholders and all that. PR spokes persons are cheaper than QA and QC...

[kmorwath]

Of course. They gave away Windows 10 for free.

It's clear that Nadellas is investing as little as he can into Windows. Money come from Azure when it can exploit open source far more than in Windows, thanks to the GPL "Stallman hole" too, to cut costs and increase profits.

Next on the chopping block is Office. Nadella mindset allows him to see only "corporations", not "users".

The problem is Linux is in the same situation. Corporations pays Torvalds & C. Not users. That's why Linux Desktop is an ill-assorted bunch of ugly libraries.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has never learned to not shove software down people's throats. It's fine if they want to add AI features but don't bloat them into the OS. Let people choose to install them. Same goes for all of the Microsoft Apps that are forcibly installed. What Corporation wants Xbox, 3d Paint, or any of those apps installed?

[phish]

Jump to Mac?

I'm running the extended support of W10, which gives me 10 months to decide if I can cope with the differences in MacOS.

I'd be happy to use Linux, but I cannot cope without Office. I'm surprised that more discussion is not happening about the MacBook migration path.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Jump to Mac?

Make a backup. Install Server 2022. Keys can be found or bought cheap, or the well-known-other-method. Has the last version of Windows 10 UI, but some of the kernel improvements of Windows 11. Only very few things don't work, like the MS-Store, and some report Bluetooth audio not working. Updates until 2031 or 2032. Should be enough to decide to switch to Linux then, or maybe MS moves their priority right. In other news, the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund, being the 8th largest MS stock holder, will vote against Satya Nadella.

https://www.nbim.no/en/responsible-investment/voting/our-voting-records/meeting?m=2017007

[ComicalEngineer]

Re: Jump to Mac?

I've found it very easy to cope without MS Office. I changed to Open / Libre Office about 20 years ago.

I retain a copy of Office 2010 on my work laptop for the odd occasions when a complex document doesn't render properly in Libre Office (rare).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Jump to Mac?

I jumped back in 2012. It was an iMac that I dual booted into Windows 7 (the dual boot capability being built into OSX) but quickly ran Windows as a VM via Parallels. I found there was very little I needed to fire up Windows for, primarily to check VBA code in an Excel spreadsheet I maintained for a client (it was for supplier audits and provided the checklist and final report, and there were a few VBA variations between the Mac and Windows versions that differed - I had to add a few lines to check the user OS before formatting for output). For everything else I did, the software for the Mac was as good or better than Windows versions (and, when I needed to find a new package because there wasn't a Mac version, the new one I got was almost always cheaper and better).

I'm now on an M5 MacBook Pro - I still have Parallels to run Windows 11, Ubuntu, Fedora and a "test" copy of macOS. Windows 11 (ARM version) hasn't flinched with anything I've asked it to do, though I'll admit I don't really stress it. YMMV.

[TVU]

Re: Jump to Mac?

These days, I use Softmaker Office for Microsoft compatibility and I combine that with using the free MS Office 365 online. That works well for me.

[bloggsy]

Re: Jump to Mac?

Use onlyoffice or libreoffice.

[DoctorPaul]

Re: Jump to Mac?

WinBoat looks like an interesting idea, halfway between Wine and a full VM as it were. Claims to let you run any Windows programs on Linux, including Office apparently.

[Wiretrip]

The problem is that all the people in charge of these companies these days have zero actual knowledge about computing. Gone are the days when someone will rise from being an actual computer scientist or software engineer with some understanding of using these things productively. The few who are still in charge were so shit at actual coding that they were promoted to management before they could do any damage, or so people thought..

[kmorwath]

Nor Gates nor Jobs were actual, real programmers or computer scientists. But they had a better grasp of reality than Nadella, having build their companies from zero.

Nadella and the others are the classic company climbers - they are usually more skilled in company politics than in product management, and focus on that. These are the results.

[powershift]

Meh

Why not leave it all alone and run debian instead.

[ben kendim]

And to hell with Adobe... for chaining me to Windows

This is the only one of my many machines that is not Linux only, but dual boots Ubuntu and Windows, because...

... occasionally I need to digitally sign a pdf and Acrobat on Linux is...???????

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: And to hell with Adobe... for chaining me to Windows

Why Acrobat?

[Fruit and Nutcase]

What on earth is the guy on?

Stop AI bloat, fix the operating system, implores veteran software developer Dave Plummer

Whatever it is, the Microsoft C-suites should be on it

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Stop AI bloat, fix the operating system

Stop AI bloat, fix the operating system, implores veteran software developer Dave Plummer

I'm sorry Dave I'm afraid I can't do that. Says HAL[SATYA]

[Dev-in-the-BM]

MS needs to fix their attitude, not their OS.

It's too late to fix Windows, is messed up beyond repair.

[Pirate Peter]

yep, roll back all the codebase to the last win10 version without all the AI enshitification and start fresh

ditch the crap win11 UI and all the advertising and monitoring

fix all the security issues and bug

add the AI features back slowly as "OPTIONAL features"

I suspect they know if AI is optional then the majority of people won't use it as its crap, so won't be able to show shareholders massive numbers of people having it installed / using it and the shareholders will ask why they should keep providing more and more money into this AI blackhole

[amacater]

Businesses are obsessed with Exchange and Outlook. Everything else is an app - and LibreOffice would be usable by a lot of people if they'd actually seen it.

Me, I'm on Debian long term at home but suffer Windows 11 at work

[Anonymous Coward]

> Businesses are obsessed with Exchange and Outlook.

Yes. And most Corporate IT departments have long ago been indoctrinated into the Microsoft paradigm, which perpetuates the obsession.

Until/unless Linux has a solid answer to either replace, or play nicely with, AD, Exchange and Outlook, this is a closed cycle.

There was a time back in the 90's where having a Unix or Linux or even BSD on your desktop was acceptable. I worked at several companies where it was not only the norm, but was expected -- at least for engineers, devs, and often IT folks.

But that was also a time when engineers were often invested with a fair amount of say-so at companies. Nowdays that has fallen by the wayside, as the MBA's are largely in charge. And so went the *nix things too.

[Omnipresent]

They need a come to Jesus moment.

You have to realize that this technology was made and given to humanity to benefit and advance man. It was made by people who where exploring possibilities, not chasing dollar signs. It will never succeed as a dollar bill.

[steviebuk]

CoPilot Bollocks

At work, every day I login to the 365 admin console I get fucking told by MS, that "You are aware you can pin CoPilot for everyone". Yeah, stop fucking telling me the same thing every fucking day and stop trying to FORCE CoPilot on me. Normally forcing stuff on people gets you a prison sentence.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: CoPilot Bollocks

Yeah, Microsoft seems to hate sysadmins more than ever before. An older example is mmc.exe since year 2000: The divider between tree and content view, everyone moves it by the too-thin-to-grab-easily line 100 to 150 pixel to the right. In every mmc console. Every time. Check any admin-video, and you will see that windows-admin-move. Or that Edge, from time to time, asks again for its startup questions. Something we admins see a lot more often since our fleet of servers are many boxes which we log in every few month, so we see that welcome wizard at least a 100 times more often... Yeah, you can GPO the latter, or MS could do it better right from the start.

[Taliesinawen]

And the soluion is ..

And the solution is to design an OS that can't be compromised by opening a malicious email attachment or clicking on a malicious weblink.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: And the soluion is ..

That is not possible. Reason: You use software which can be exploited across multiple platforms. Especially Webbrowsers and mailclients are known for their bugs across all three major OS-es. On todays OS-es they usually "only" compromise the data the normal non-admin-user can reach, so the actual OS below is usually not compromised. Unless you click "yeah" on allow admin, exploit sudo or a program which is called by su/sudo or an additional other OS bug comes along. And all big three OS-es have those issues.

Unless the core-rot of Windows reaches a deeper level, but it is not there yet.

[Pirate Peter]

95% of our tech team ditched win 11

we were recently taken over and as part of a tech refresh our tech team was given the option of new win11 laptop or MacBook pro's

95% took the MacBook pro's due to enshitification of win 11 with constant working features being broke with AI or AI forced into places it wasn't wanted

personally in the last year I have removed all M$ OS and applications from my machines (6 of them) for a mix of Mac and linux

[herman]

Windows One

It is not really Windows eleven. It is Windows one one - and the repetition is another bug…

[Anonymous Anti-ANC South African Coward]

Re: Windows One

Windows Eleventy-one.

[cookieMonster]

RetroPad

Dave Plummer released a video on his YouTube channel last night, where he got an Ai to write a version of notepad without the shit MS had added, source is open and on GitHub

[herman]

Re: RetroPad

W0t? It is just one function call to open an edit window?

[Derezed]

Fuck microsoft and the horse they rode in on.

Every time I log on at work now I feel miserable. Everything is slow...shit...spread over vast arrays of Teams channels, chats, groups, meeting and emails. It's desperately unresponsive. Onedrive penetrating everything...sending someone a document is now an act of "collaboration"...no fire and forget...it's a permanent share to my downloads file.

I just want Microsoft to FUCK OFF and stop making me work to use their operating system and ecosystem.

For home, I have just ditched Ubuntu for Mint and it is so nice...when I tell it to turn off by pressing the big red metaphor I hear a "click" as my machine just fucking dies...like I told it to. Immediately. No delay, no network traffic...no am I sure? no "we'll just stay on to save you some time tomorrow"...just blissful silence. Machine off...next task...a shit maybe.

Microsoft have fucked it. I just hate the fact that I have to use them for over 8 hours a day.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Fuck microsoft and the horse they rode in on.

Wish I could upvote this many times, I'm in exactly the same position as you.

Perhaps I'm not so cross at Microsoft, after all, it's their decision to do everything they have done. I'm more cross at my employer for adopting pretty much everything Microsoft fling out, but without clear corporate guidance on what we should all be using, when and what for. Multiple SharePoints, one drives and Teamses litter our corporate IT and of course, all us workers have our own opinions on which to use and when. I spend more of my time searching for messages than I do reading them.

[Anonymous Anti-ANC South African Coward]

Re: Fuck microsoft and the horse they rode in on.

Most posts on X is about users moaning about AI slop creeping in everywhere, and we all wishes M$ would just f**k off with their k**ke.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Fuck microsoft and the horse they rode in on.

> Teams channels, chats, groups, meeting and emails

loops, sharepoint sites, planners, ToDo lists, your company custom Teams app 'cause of course your company custom Teams app, the hidden from sight channels since you don't click all of them every day, the excel tables in Teams 'cause Teams cannot do enough so you need excel, the one-note in Teams, the always wrong status whether you are available or not, the real-excel for the excel tables in Teams 'cause some things are not working from within Teams, the inability to remember which subdirectory in the channel you were 'cause you clicked on a chat and then back.... Yes, we use Teams, there is a reason why this list is not finished here, my annoyance buffer is full.

[[e-mail]]

I need to stop

I left Windows for Linux some time ago, so articles like this are rage bait rather than information - to me.

[Anonymous Anti-ANC South African Coward]

Fallback options :

1. Windows NT4 Workstation with SP6

2. Windows 2000 Workstation with SP4

3. Windows XP SP3

4. Windows 7

Think OS/2 and Linux users must be chortling with glee now.

[Anonymous Coward]

MS need more sales ... therefore more 'AI' in everything, that cannot run on your 'old' kit.

I still use Win 7 and old apps that run on win 7 because the OS does not get in the way.

I know it is old and a security risk etc etc

I just have over the top security elsewhere between the Win 7 PC and the Router, plus lots of filtering etc on the router itself.

I will end up moving Win 7 to a VM eventually, so I can roll it back from a 'locked down copy' and keep all data on a separate secure volume.

:)

[bloggsy]

Stuff Windows

Got rid of Windows, went to Zorin OS 18 Pro and no regrets.

[herman]

Re: Stuff Windows

Hmm, in the beginning, telling people “I don’t do Windows” was sheer bliss. Now they have all learned not to ask.

[Derek Kingscote]

XP and Office 2003

I've long said most people don't need anything more than XP and office 2003

There used to be a saying nobody got fired for buying IBM.

Nowadays, Microsoft has everybody in an armlock and the senior managers don't know any better

Paying an annual fee for Microsoft software is a gravytrain that M$ won't want to stop. that's a lot of users and a LOT of money.

Be interested to learn just how much money that brought in in 2024.

Derek

[Drone Pilot]

AI mouse pointer, coming to a Windows 11 pc near you soon

They raped notepad. That was sacred.

Next, I am certain they will introduce AI to the mouse drivers which will move the mouse to where it thinks you want to go rather than where you actually want to go.....

(no MS product managers, this is not a thing. Don't even try it)

[RobDog]

Must be more than just him

Surely others helped write Windows. Where are they?

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Must be more than just him

Dave Cutler is 83 now, still in the xbox department. he explained that xBox is three Hyper-V VMs. 1st the "Management OS", 2nd the UI, 3rd for the game. Makes it easy to swap out the UI-VM to get more free RAM. Without him no NT. Has a VAX RSX-11M background.

Dave Plummer ran away during early Longhorn (though I don't know whether my choice of words apply how he really left MS).

Raymond Chen is still there too, though i don't know where.

The sysinternals guys are there too, but probably retiring age too.

There are tons of good people at MS, the problem is in the management level and wrong chosen KPIs, which IMHO boils down to point the finger at Nadella. He makes me wish Ballmer back.