back to article Trump wants to turn it on again with 'Genesis Mission' for AI in science

US President Trump has ordered the launch of the "Genesis Mission," a national effort to use AI to drive scientific discoveries, with the aim of strengthening America's technological leadership and global competitiveness. In an executive order published on Monday, the President declared that the country is in a race for global …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    But of course

    "We are linking the nation's most advanced facilities, data, and computing into one closed-loop system"

    What could possibly go wrong ?

    I'm sure Putin's band is going to insert itself in this wonderful arena and steal all the info they can. Discreetly, of course, no need for disruption here.

    Just like the Manhatten Project, they will want the results, and will gleefully let the US foot the bill. There will be no need for Communist traitors this time.

    Ah, what a wonderful world we are creating for ourselves . . .

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: But of course

      Use all the USA's supercomputers to mine bitcoin - pay off the debt the electorate your friends

    2. Like a badger Silver badge

      Re: But of course

      There will be no need for Communist traitors this time.

      So Krasnov isn't a Commie traitor?

    3. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

      Re: But of course

      I'm still baffled at how some people think "1984" is a guide not a warning!

  2. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

    I've always thought they were similar. But if Trump can end the Russia and Ukraine war actions then I'll be much happier, before the war started we had employed an excellent Ukraine programmer but the war must have killed him, no communications ever since (icon).

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

      @Version 1.0

      "But if Trump can end the Russia and Ukraine war actions then I'll be much happier"

      Apparently he got very close then Europe stuck its nose in, changed the agreement and is upset Russia rejects the new proposal they were not involved in.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

        Agreeing to all the aggressor's demands does not count as "very close" unless you are a complete idiot.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          Historic cease fire deal - US agree to give Hawaii to Japan and promise not build a new Pacific fleet

      2. IGotOut Silver badge

        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

        @codejunky

        I knew you were a rightwing nut job, but if your idea of ending the war is "Give Russia huge chunks of Ukraine, disarm the country and leave them wide open to further attack whilst Ukraine gets nothing in return" then your spot on.

        Of course Russia can be trusted. After all they kept their agreement not to invade Ukraine if they handed of their nuclear weapons after the time of the Soviet collapse.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          I am sorry to say it but the only way to end this war and have peace is to hand the land Russia is occupying to Putin.

          The alternative is endless conflict, Ukraine fights until it is defeated, or Europe ramps-up military support and incites a wider conflict, potentially World War III, and a nuclear Armageddon.

          I don't believe the bullshit from the anti-Russia war mongers that Europe is in the firing line if Putin gets the land he's occupying. It has taken him four years to take those and hasn't actually had to fight NATO.

          And losing the east serves Ukraine right for their persecution of pro-Russian Ukrainians in that region.

          1. Casca Silver badge

            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

            And we should trust someone who post as AC?

            Good on you for swallow kremls lies.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

              This is why people post as AC because no matter how they have arrived at a stance you will always say we are the ones being brainwashed or suckered and demonise us for that. Sorry I don't believe your narrative but I would rather be safe as an AC than fearing for my life because of brainwashed morons.

              You don't have to trust what I say. But you don't even respect my right to have a view and express it.

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. Casca Silver badge

                Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                Why is it that its mainly right wing muppets and putin defenders who post as AC?

                Fearing for your life by posting with a handle... Sure buddy.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

            > The alternative is endless conflict

            Thus far, giving in to Putin has guaranteed endless conflict

            > I don't believe the bullshit from the anti-Russia war mongers

            Cool. I don't believe the bullshit from anyone who conflates those being invaded with those doing the invading.

            > losing the east serves Ukraine right for their persecution of pro-Russian Ukrainians

            Perhaps I'm missing the nuance since I'm not Russian or Ukrainian, but wouldn't "pro-Russian Ukrainian" be a euphemism for "traitor"?

          3. localzuk Silver badge

            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

            Why don't you believe the view that Russia will attack Europe further? He already is, with attacks on Poland being the latest hybrid warfare attacks.

            Not to mention, to ignore Russia's history would be naive. They have attacked Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, Chechnya etc... all in the last 30 or so years.

            The idea that Putin will just go home, shutting down the massive military-industrial complex he has built? Seems strange to me.

            But, then, you reveal yourself for the nonsense about "persecution" of pro-Russian Ukrainians.

        2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Holmes

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          Of course Russia can be trusted.

          Of course he can be trusted - as long as we can trust what Trunp says and believe that Putin has no kompromat on Trump, despite Trump behaving as if he does

        3. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          @IGotOut

          "I knew you were a rightwing nut job"

          Nice start but it sounds like you are the war monger nut job.

          "but if your idea of ending the war is "Give Russia huge chunks of Ukraine"

          It isnt giving. Its taken. Cry all you like but European NATO chickened out of joining the war and without NATO joining how do you fantasise that Ukraine would get the land back? That has never been answered, only wishful thinking that Ukraine can somehow retake it all on their own while NATO participates at arms length.

          "disarm the country and leave them wide open to further attack whilst Ukraine gets nothing in return" then your spot on."

          Nothing in return such as not being ground down and then taken over? Going back to your nut job comment (whatever 'right wing' has to do with anything) you are the one advocating for more people to be killed in a war that Ukraine cannot win (by your standards of retaking the country) without NATO fully joining the war. And if NATO fighting Russia is your position I can respect that more than just throwing more Ukrainians to be killed for your amusement.

          "Of course Russia can be trusted."

          Of course not. Ukraine either considering Zelenskyy was determined to keep the war going. And if you remember how the war started with the west stepping in on Ukraine you might understand why they dont trust us either.

          I keep asking for solutions. The two I see is diplomatic peace or NATO joins the war. European NATO chickened out of the second and with Trump who is more interested in peace kinda removes the second option. The ongoing throwing of Ukraine bodies to die trying to hold a front line isnt working.

          1. Casca Silver badge

            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

            The war started by russia invading but keep up your right wing vomit stream

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

              @Casca

              "The war started by russia invading but keep up your right wing vomit stream"

              So why did they invade? Cmon think about it. Did Putin one day just wake up and think 'hey I am bored, lets invade Ukraine'? Why Ukraine? There are other countries he could invade and the rest of the world would probably care much less.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                Did Putin one day just wake up and think 'hey I am bored, lets invade Ukraine'? Why Ukraine?

                Isn't the first thing Putin does of a morning is to decide who's going to accidentally fall out of a window that day?

                Invasions are decided after a spot of lunch, surely?

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                Whenever I read your posts, I think to myself "humanity has now reached peak stupidity", but then I wait a few days, and see your next post, and I realise that I was wrong on that occasion.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Trollface

                  Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                  It's more like the Laugher Curve:

                  Describing how the more codejunky posts their "hot takes", the more people laugh at them.

              3. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. ITMA Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

        "Apparently he got very close"

        That's what Neville Chamberlain thought with his "and here is the paper which bears his name upon it, as well as mine" when he returned from Munich after seeing Hitler. He thought he'd brought peace.

        That worked out well.... NOT.

        1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          There is a school of thought that says Chamberlain thought nothing if the kind but knew he had to pretend to be an idiot to buy time. (Churchill didn't exactly sideline him, so perhaps there is something in this.)

      4. steelpillow Silver badge

        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

        With that shedload of downvotes, I can actually hear the whoosh! of Vulture Central sarcasm passing our fellow commentards by. Well played Sir, madam, or It as the case may be.

        Err, I am right, aren't I?

        1. Michael Hoffmann Silver badge

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          Insert standard "you must be new here" message.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

            @Michael Hoffmann

            "Insert standard "you must be new here" message."

            Considering the phrasing and the moron calling me madam I would suggest it is my regular troll chodemonkey demonstrating he has figured out for a second time how to make an account. Possibly so he can make more downvotes too.

            1. Casca Silver badge

              Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

              Ah yes, thats why you get down votes. Sure...

            2. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
              Stop

              Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

              " I would suggest it is my regular troll chodemonkey demonstrating he has figured out for a second time how to make an account. Possibly so he can make more downvotes too."

              I demand you take back your baseless accusation. And seek help from your physician as you are clearly having an attack-of-the-vapours. (Yet again.)

              1. codejunky Silver badge
                Trollface

                Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                @ChodeMonkey

                "I demand you take back your baseless accusation. And seek help from your physician as you are clearly having an attack-of-the-vapours. (Yet again.)"

                Upon your insistence I retract my accusation and apologise. I should not consider you smart enough to go through the process of creating a new account a second time, the first was traumatic enough for you.

                1. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                  Headmaster

                  Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                  " I should not consider you smart enough"

                  Enlighten us all again on your academic prowess and achievements! (Aside from the outstanding œuvres you post here for our delectation.)

                  At which educational establishment did you read for your bachelor's degree in Theology, Religion, and Philosophy?

                  1. codejunky Silver badge

                    Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                    @ChodeMonkey

                    "Enlighten us all again on your academic prowess and achievements!"

                    it is ok, I agreed with you about your ability. There is no need to keep focus on your... difficulties.

                    1. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                      Trollface

                      Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                      Madam, Werre you not entitled to some compensation...?

                      https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/federal-court-approves-25-million-trump-university-settlement-n845181

                      1. codejunky Silver badge

                        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                        @ChodeMonkey

                        "Madam, Werre you not entitled to some compensation...?"

                        No I wasnt one of your classmates.

                        1. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                          Coat

                          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                          Which esteemed educational establishment was then graced with your illustrious presence? Ah, to shine with such confident smartness. A joy to behold. Was it in the field of AI? At The Royal Agricultural College? A white coat would have been de rigueur!)

                          1. codejunky Silver badge
                            Devil

                            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                            @ChodeMonkey

                            "At The Royal Agricultural College? A white coat would have been de rigueur!)"

                            You would wear a white coat to do agriculture? I would hope not during a practical as you may be visibly stained by the manure you spread

                            1. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                              IT Angle

                              Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                              "You would wear a white coat to do agriculture?"

                              Is that not the case to do AI ?

                              1. codejunky Silver badge

                                Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                                @ChodeMonkey

                                "Is that not the case to do AI ?"

                                I am amused at the idea of a dress code for machine learning. Did you get your ideas from Dexters Lab or some other tv show?

                                1. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                                  Alert

                                  Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                                  Mahine learning? Is your AI qualification not in Artificial Insemination?

                                  1. codejunky Silver badge

                                    Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                                    @ChodeMonkey

                                    "Mahine learning? Is your AI qualification not in Artificial Insemination?"

                                    Now I understand your need for your white coat! I bet when they mentioned semen you thought you were getting on a boat

                                    1. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                                      Pirate

                                      Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                                      How you spend your time with mariners interests no one, Madam.

            3. steelpillow Silver badge
              Trollface

              Re: the moron calling you madam

              Dear Sir or It, as the case may be:

              Not knowing you from Adam or Eve - or the Serpent for that matter - I merely indulged in the usual polite formalities.

              That such things have never surfaced on your radar rather says it all.

              It is sadly apparent that you actually meant your garbage rant after all, and in all politeness I must apologise for taking your words wrongly and foolishly imagining you have a sense of humour.

              1. codejunky Silver badge
                FAIL

                Re: the moron calling you madam

                @steelpillow

                "Not knowing you from Adam or Eve - or the Serpent for that matter - I merely indulged in the usual polite formalities."

                Not knowing you from bot I dont feel the need to refer to you beyond your handle or if your actions merit- troll.

                "That such things have never surfaced on your radar rather says it all."

                You have an account from 2016. Assuming you look at the forums since the start of this year you may have noticed the only twit to refer to me in any such way is a pet troll who uses such 'polite formality' as a form of sexist insult and has been called out by others a few times already now.

                "It is sadly apparent that you actually meant your garbage rant after all, and in all politeness I must apologise for taking your words wrongly and foolishly imagining you have a sense of humour."

                When your comment is on par with someone who literally and unashamedly made a trolling account you may wish to reflect on yourself before casting judgement on others. And if you somehow consider my comment a garbage rant which consists of 1 line of current fact then maybe you wont have the capacity for self reflection.

                1. steelpillow Silver badge
                  Trollface

                  Re: the moron calling you madam

                  > Not knowing you from bot ... You have an account from 2016.

                  Oh dear, you've nailed me. I am a crappy old bot dating from 9 years ago and El Reg has never rumbled me. Whatever gave me away? We'd all love to know!

                  I don't usually engage is slagfests, but you really crack me up. Icon just for you.

                  1. codejunky Silver badge
                    Facepalm

                    Re: the moron calling you madam

                    @steelpillow

                    "Oh dear, you've nailed me. I am a crappy old bot dating from 9 years ago and El Reg has never rumbled me. Whatever gave me away? We'd all love to know!"

                    Guessing your sarcasm parser doesnt work?

                    "I don't usually engage is slagfests, but you really crack me up. Icon just for you."

                    I notice you didnt quote the entire line. Here you go- "Not knowing you from bot I dont feel the need to refer to you beyond your handle or if your actions merit- troll.". If you can read it you might find I already identified you, you didnt really need the icon. Dont worry you got me laughing too

                2. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                  Holmes

                  Re: the moron calling you madam

                  "who uses such 'polite formality' as a form of sexist insult "

                  How is being polite insulting or sexist, Madame? Surely a cultured and erudite economics and military expert, such as yourself, appreciates being addressed in a formal manner?

      5. Blitheringeejit
        Facepalm

        Europe stuck its nose in...?

        Er - correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this war happening in Europe? So not so much sticking its nose in, as trying to deal with an actual invasion of its nose?

        Sorry, I know I should know better than to feed the trolls.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

          @Blitheringeejit

          "Er - correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't this war happening in Europe? So not so much sticking its nose in, as trying to deal with an actual invasion of its nose?

          Sorry, I know I should know better than to feed the trolls."

          You should probably know better that Russia straddles eastern Europe and Asia. So while technically correct I was using Europe as the shorthand for Western Europe. You would have huge fun talking to the EU fanatics who call the EU Europe.

          As for an invasion on its nose, NATO has consistently moved closer to Russia putting the 'nose' (that anyone actually cares about) closer to Russia. As we know this war was provoked from the uprising in Ukraine encouraged by the west (US/EU) and then the west moving in on Ukraine. When dealing with an unpredictable Russia it does seem unwise to keep trying to make them nervous.

          As for trolls that is about all you get here. Blood thirsty people willing this war to continue because it has almost no effect on them. Hell they were probably disappointed in Trumps first term that the invasion paused.

          1. Blitheringeejit

            Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

            >So while technically correct I was using Europe as the shorthand for Western Europe.

            OK, so when you use shorthand you should explain it.

            >NATO has consistently moved closer to Russia

            You are (consciously, I suspect) making the same self-serving conflation between an alliance and a nation state as Putin makes. NATO is not a country, it's an alliance, which any nation state is free to apply to join. It doesn't threaten either Russian territory or Russian interests, but Putin pretends that its expansion is a threat so that he can shore up his authority by playing at being a glorious wartime leader, and send hundreds of thousands of young Russian men to their deaths in the process. What works for him is not good for Russia or for its people.

            Of course Putin's fictional objective of reuniting Mother Russia is a tragedy for Ukrainians, and if he lives long enough it will expand into a tragedy for other European nations - but most of all it's a tragedy for the Russian people who are being impoverished and slaughtered just to make him feel strong.

            I have a very soft spot for Russia and its people, and all this makes me very sad for them as well as for the Ukrainians. Putin must be stopped for the sake of Mother Russia, never mind everyone else.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

              @Blitheringeejit

              "OK, so when you use shorthand you should explain it."

              I dont quite know how to put this without sounding insulting but I aint trying to be- if I have to explain the short hand it defeats the purpose of it being short. Another common shorthand is 'the west' but then a pedantic or idiot might then include the Americas as a whole for example.

              "You are (consciously, I suspect) making the same self-serving conflation between an alliance and a nation state as Putin makes."

              That would be the correct way to look at it since Putin is the one looking at the alliance with mistrust and we dont want to spark a war with Russia now do we? Misunderstandings happen when you refuse to look from other peoples perspectives.

              "It doesn't threaten either Russian territory or Russian interests"

              So you say. Yet from the Russian perspective it does. Then encourage Ukraine to throw out its pro-Russian leadership and push for closer ties to the west. From a Russian perspective would that start to look like the western powers expansion? Consider that from the European perspective of nullifying the result of a countries democratic election based on the accusation of Russian interference. The mistrust is mutual.

              "shore up his authority by playing at being a glorious wartime leader, and send hundreds of thousands of young Russian men to their deaths in the process. What works for him is not good for Russia or for its people."

              I wont disagree. Now do Zelenskyy with the same honesty. For the west to try and encourage peace in Ukraine it should be Putin who is difficult to work with. He is effectively 'the enemy'. We should expect not being able to trust him and so on. It is even more difficult because we have the same problem with the Ukrainian leader. More than that we have plenty in the west egging the war on. Not wanting peace.

              "I have a very soft spot for Russia and its people, and all this makes me very sad for them as well as for the Ukrainians. Putin must be stopped for the sake of Mother Russia, never mind everyone else."

              How about bringing the war to an end to stop the suffering. Remember the invasion started under Obama. Paused under Trump. Resumed under Biden and then escalated when Trump made inroads with diplomacy. And now Trump has his second term look at the various leaderships and apart from Trump who wants peace?

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

              2. Casca Silver badge

                Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                Ah yes, trump the big peacemaker. Everything to help his pal putin.

                If you dont see that then your blind

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                  @Casca

                  "Ah yes, trump the big peacemaker. Everything to help his pal putin.

                  If you dont see that then your blind"

                  I saw Putin take land from Ukraine under Obama and Bidens presidency while they paused under Trumps first term. The nearest to any form of actual dialogue for peace has been under Trumps second term. Seems Putin gained from the other two.

                  Let me guess, you didnt see that because you are blind?

                  1. Casca Silver badge

                    Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                    Yea, like all the right wing morons you only see what you want to see. Always the simple view and never using the brain you have.

                    Its not dialog. Its giving puting what he wants.

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                      @Casca

                      "Yea, like all the right wing morons you only see what you want to see. Always the simple view and never using the brain you have."

                      I think you might have rebooted or just completely crashed out. The comment you are replying to is- "I saw Putin take land from Ukraine under Obama and Bidens presidency while they paused under Trumps first term. The nearest to any form of actual dialogue for peace has been under Trumps second term. Seems Putin gained from the other two.".

                      "Its not dialog. Its giving puting what he wants."

                      Yet again it was under Obama and Biden that Putin took what he wanted. He invaded under Obama, paused under Trump and restarted under Biden. So he got what he wanted during the presidencies of Obama and Biden. How do you reconcile your beliefs against the reality?

                      1. Casca Silver badge

                        Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                        LMAO, just stop with your bullshit.

                        Clearly your smooth brain cant handle reality.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge
                          Devil

                          Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                          @Casca

                          "LMAO, just stop with your bullshit.

                          Clearly your smooth brain cant handle reality."

                          Is that seriously your response when reality doesnt match your delusion? Did the facts upset you so much? Did you glitch?

                          1. Casca Silver badge

                            Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                            Its the response you deserve for the shit you post.

                            1. codejunky Silver badge

                              Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                              @Casca

                              "Its the response you deserve for the shit you post."

                              So how do you reconcile Russia taking the chunks of Ukraine under Obama and Biden? Thats when Russia got what it wanted when it invaded. Under Trumps first term the invasion paused. You blame Obama and Biden?

                              1. Casca Silver badge

                                Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                                And you still harp on and defending trump. It never ends with you and you diatribe.

                                1. codejunky Silver badge

                                  Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                                  @Casca

                                  "And you still harp on and defending trump. It never ends with you and you diatribe."

                                  How am I defending him, you are wrong and know you are wrong, but because I correct your lie you call it defending Trump. Nope you are lying.

                                  You claimed Trump was giving Putin what he wants. You keep saying the only acceptable outcome is Russia out of Ukraine. I factually pointed out that the Ukraine land was lost to Russia under Obama and Biden. Do you somehow disagree? Do you somehow have a revisionist version of recent history?

                                  1. This post has been deleted by its author

              3. Blitheringeejit

                Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                >I have to explain the short hand it defeats the purpose of it being short.

                I didn't notice you being economic with the word count in your posts - why not say what you mean instead of assuming that your audience understands your shorthand? But my correction was a pedantic one, because after all I am just troll-baiting here. Thanks for rising to it. :)

                >>It [NATO] doesn't threaten either Russian territory or Russian interests"

                >So you say. Yet from the Russian perspective it does.

                No, from the Putin perspective it does, because it serves his glorious leader agenda. The Russian people were fine with being a major economic player in Europe after the collapse of the USSR, and none of the Russians I knew at that time regarded NATO as any kind of threat.

                > Then encourage Ukraine to throw out its pro-Russian leadership and push for closer ties to the west. From a Russian perspective would that start to look like the western powers expansion?

                Only from a Putin perspective, not a Russian one. Ukrainians may well have been encouraged to vote that way by the prospect of closer ties with Western Europe - but they may also have been discouraged from supporting Yanukovych because of his closer ties with Moscow, or more specifically with the Putin regime which was quite correctly seen as a threat by Ukrainians. Ukraine only became anti-Russia when Russia became Putin-land.

                > More than that we have plenty in the west egging the war on. Not wanting peace.

                Everyone wants peace, but not at the price of rewarding Putin's aggression in a way which will only encourage him to do the same to other countries as he's done to Ukraine. You say "Misunderstandings happen when you refuse to look from other peoples perspectives." - so consider this situation from the perspective of Estonia, Moldova, and the other ex-members of the "Union" - or from the perspectives of countries like Czechia, where Russian tanks rolling through the streets of Prague is a living memory for people my age.

                Ukraine is not a one-off, it's just a phase of the Putin project. He doesn't have an end-game in mind - his position depends on being able to sacrifice endless Russian lives by waging endless war. If he gets what he's prepared to settle for now, that will not bring peace - it will just relocate the war to the next front in Project Putin. @ITMA's reference to Chamberlain above is absolutely on the money.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                  @Blitheringeejit

                  "I didn't notice you being economic with the word count in your posts - why not say what you mean instead of assuming that your audience understands your shorthand? But my correction was a pedantic one, because after all I am just troll-baiting here. Thanks for rising to it. :)"

                  What sometimes appears like troll baiting is really someone who genuinely doesnt understand.

                  "No, from the Putin perspective it does, because it serves his glorious leader agenda. The Russian people were fine with being a major economic player in Europe after the collapse of the USSR, and none of the Russians I knew at that time regarded NATO as any kind of threat."

                  Ok blame Putin (although if he is knocked off we may end up with someone just as bad if we are lucky). So Putin (and such) view NATO as a threat. Putin being in charge of Russia and the one we would have to deal with. As is currently happening.

                  "Only from a Putin perspective, not a Russian one. Ukrainians may well have been encouraged to vote that way by the prospect of closer ties with Western Europe - but they may also have been discouraged from supporting Yanukovych because of his closer ties with Moscow, or more specifically with the Putin regime which was quite correctly seen as a threat by Ukrainians. Ukraine only became anti-Russia when Russia became Putin-land."

                  So while the European encouragement was visible, even if we ignore that you say Ukraine became more hostile to Russia (the reason doesnt matter so lets agree Putinland) which is an excuse the Putin used for invading to protect Russians in Ukraine. So why is the west getting involved in their dispute? Or worse than that egging it on to keep the war going?

                  "Everyone wants peace"

                  Who? Trumps gov organised an agreement with Ukraine that the Ukraine government agreed to and yet Zelenskyy got thrown out because he didnt want peace. The UK and France are embarrassing themselves with the coalition of the unwilling then crying that NATO (US) wont backstop them if they are hit in an attack on Ukraine. Obama justified the loss of Crimea. Biden called the restarting invasion a 'little incursion' later allowing NATO weapons to be used directly against Russia and yet the invasion stopped during Trumps first term and Trump is trying to negotiate a peace now. You would be hard pressed to find many here except maybe eel who would say Putin wants peace. So of the worlds leadership who except Trump wants peace in Ukraine?

                  "but not at the price of rewarding Putin's aggression in a way which will only encourage him to do the same to other countries as he's done to Ukraine."

                  So do you think NATO should outright join the war against Russia? How else does Ukraine get its territory back? They are barely holding as they are with vast support from the west. And Trump has already made clear he doesnt want to fund someone elses forever war. This is the serious question that nobody seems to have a real answer to, which is why I agree with diplomacy.

                  "so consider this situation from the perspective of Estonia, Moldova, and the other ex-members of the "Union" - or from the perspectives of countries like Czechia, where Russian tanks rolling through the streets of Prague is a living memory for people my age."

                  Ok. So how many of those are in NATO, how many of those are we going to throw our collective military might at Russia for? If the answer is none then this idea is moot.

                  "Ukraine is not a one-off, it's just a phase of the Putin project."

                  If this is not related to my question above is this in relation to the fantasy that Russia is incompetent and incapable against a 3rd rate unprepared Ukrainian force somehow being a strong and powerful threat that will steam-roll over Europe? Because those are 2 entirely contradictory narratives that have been told throughout this war at the same time.

                  "@ITMA's reference to Chamberlain above is absolutely on the money."

                  Great. So should NATO go to all out war? Otherwise its continued irrelevance.

                  1. Blitheringeejit

                    Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                    Ah, *now* I get it. I thought all along that you were typing away in an anonymous-looking office next door but three from the Kremlin - but now I realise that you're head of the "Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize" committee.

                    Good luck - I wouldn't put money on you succeeding, but after Kissenger in '73 I guess anything is possible.

                    1. codejunky Silver badge

                      Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                      @Blitheringeejit

                      "Ah, *now* I get it. I thought all along that you were typing away in an anonymous-looking office next door but three from the Kremlin - but now I realise that you're head of the "Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize" committee."

                      Congrats for figuring it out, wanting peace is not pro-Russia. Wanting the death of Ukrainians in a war they likely wont win how you want it is not pro-Ukraine. I notice you fail to answer the question that gets everyone else stuck-

                      So do you think NATO should outright join the war against Russia? How else does Ukraine get its territory back? They are barely holding as they are with vast support from the west. And Trump has already made clear he doesnt want to fund someone elses forever war. This is the serious question that nobody seems to have a real answer to, which is why I agree with diplomacy.

                      Actually you seem to have entirely avoided answering any single simple question related to this war.

                      As for your peace prize comment, I remember reading the Nobel committee was burned badly with Obama by giving him one in hope he could live up to it. So while Trump is obviously more successful at the peace effort than Obama they wouldnt give him one. The recipient acknowledged Trumps work but I suspect Obama has poisoned the chance for Presidents.

                      1. Casca Silver badge

                        Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                        Still "not" defending trump I see.

                        1. codejunky Silver badge

                          Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                          @Casca

                          "Still "not" defending trump I see."

                          Glad you noticed (dont worry I know you didnt and are too stupid to understand). So are you for peace in Ukraine or not? Do you think NATO should join the war to gain back the territory?

                          1. Casca Silver badge

                            Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                            Peace is when russia fuck out of Ukraine. I know you right wing brain is to stupid to understand that but here we are.

                            1. codejunky Silver badge

                              Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

                              @Casca

                              "Peace is when russia fuck out of Ukraine. I know you right wing brain is to stupid to understand that but here we are."

                              And I presented 2 options, one which would achieve that (NATO joining the war). Are you too think to realise that? The other being the option Trump is pursuing which is diplomacy.

                              You think the only acceptable outcome is for Ukraine to take back all its territory? Then do you think NATO should join the war or have you some other REALISTIC suggestion?

          2. Casca Silver badge

            Re: Europe stuck its nose in...?

            Its you who are the troll here. Spewing kreml propaganda and right wing bullshit.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Welfare call

        So how's Nathan holding up after his sentencing?

      7. Casca Silver badge

        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

        LMAO, he gave russia everything it wanted. But then you would defend trump.

    2. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

      Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

      Well, let's just say Drumpf's IQ is clearly in the neighbourhood of his waist size in inches. He speaks in 4-6 letter words, talks utter and complete nonsense over half the time, and is clearly deeply and inevitably in the declining years of dementia - severe dementia. Only such a feeble intellect would even suggest trying to treat so many myriad technologies and missions as a single entity.

      Inevitably, those who insist on asking "How hard can it be?" are the ones who have the least knowledge about the subjects at hand.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

        @Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

        "Well, let's just say Drumpf's IQ is clearly in the neighbourhood of his waist size in inches. He speaks in 4-6 letter words, talks utter and complete nonsense over half the time, and is clearly deeply and inevitably in the declining years of dementia - severe dementia. Only such a feeble intellect would even suggest trying to treat so many myriad technologies and missions as a single entity."

        While ignoring Trump completely for a moment, when I read comments like this I wonder if you noticed the previous 4 years under Brandon. This sounds like a serious leap in improvement.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

          Get over it junky, Drumpf was declining in his first term, and yes, Biden was too, but for some reason the American people decided the demented wannabe fascist con artist Trump was a better option than a competent, capable, intelligent woman of colour with all her faculties intact.

          So now we have a "leader of the free world" who's a grifting con artist who's lost his mental acuity and control of his bowels while his family and cabinet of reality TV celebrities break international law, commit war crimes and cash in on whichever transparent scam they can think up.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

            @AC

            "Drumpf was declining in his first term, and yes, Biden was too, but for some reason the American people decided the demented wannabe fascist con artist Trump was a better option than a competent, capable, intelligent woman of colour with all her faculties intact."

            Your description of Kamala brings into question your comment. Did you miss the hatchet job on her interview to try and make her make sense?

            1. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

              Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

              I notice, again, you completely fail to address the main point of the comment about the person you claim to never defend.

              How about instead of trashing Harris with utter nonsense claims, you address Trump's mental decline, his and his family's cashing in, the incompetent celebrity reality show cabinet and his loss of bowel control?

              Or would that get you a complimentary set of faulty windo latches?

              1. codejunky Silver badge

                Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                @BartyFartsLast

                "I notice, again, you completely fail to address the main point of the comment about the person you claim to never defend."

                Does that come in a flavour of english? If you mean the claim that Trump is losing his mind, its hilarious but seems to be crap. The claim coming about after Biden was seen consistently incapable and people believing the propaganda that Biden was ok. Suddenly now they can see what mental decline looks like but only in Trump. That is stupidity and I addressed that very clearly with my response to Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck.

                If you mean the AC who for some reason describes Kamala as- "a competent, capable, intelligent woman of colour with all her faculties intact." I think anyone paying any attention will see how that statement is a complete failure. Even her supporting media didnt believe that as they had to edit her interviews excessively to rewrite her answers.

                "How about instead of trashing Harris with utter nonsense claims, you address Trump's mental decline, his and his family's cashing in, the incompetent celebrity reality show cabinet and his loss of bowel control?"

                What mental decline. He came out with stupid comments in his first term and his second and yet seems fairly consistent on that front. Your comment on cashing in seems again to be late as Trump isnt the 'big guy' getting his 10%. I know you dont like Trump, nothing wrong with that. But did you make such claims against the previous president and family who has been caught out in this?

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                  If you are so enamoured with Trump's MAGA USA why don't you move there, codejunky?

                  You could get yourself in to the country on visa-waiver and try your views/theories/misunderstandings on legal residency rights and illegal immigration/working and see how that pans out for you. "ICE ICE Baby...!"

                2. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

                  Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                  Deflection junky, I can only assume that English isn't your native language if you think my opening paragraph wasn't English.

                  And yet again, you fail to address any of the points raised instead you do what you claim to never do, you're defending Trump with whataboutery, nonsense claims and yet more deflection.

                  You really are a tawdry little shill.

                  1. codejunky Silver badge
                    WTF?

                    Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                    @BartyFartsLast

                    "Deflection junky, I can only assume that English isn't your native language if you think my opening paragraph wasn't English."

                    And yet I answered 2 interpretations of your question and you are still too stupid to actually ask your question clearly. Maybe you could try restating your question but in a readable format?

                    "And yet again, you fail to address any of the points raised instead you do what you claim to never do, you're defending Trump with whataboutery, nonsense claims and yet more deflection."

                    I answered your points. Did you type one thing but mean another? Maybe you should get someone to proof read your question with you explaining what you actually mean to ask. Wanna try again in english this time or are you happy with your little breakdown?

                  2. ChodeMonkey Silver badge
                    Megaphone

                    Re: Trump IQ versus AI IQ?

                    "You really are a tawdry little shill."

                    How DARE you imply that renowned military, economics and AI expert C.Junky is paid to make cheap, throw-away pronouncements in support of President Trump. This is done out of an almost religious duty to The Cause! No enrichment will ever occur for them.

  3. EricM Silver badge

    Writing from Europe, it will be interesting to explore the effects...

    of weakening traditional science institutions massively while pouring even more silly amounts of money into AI/Science slop.

    At least we will not be directly affected by the result most probably being "nope, doesn't work as intended...".

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Writing from Europe, it will be interesting to explore the effects...

      On the plus side they will need to start importing scientists form Europe again, on the down side this time they are doing the fascism and driving away the $ETHNIC scientists

  4. JimmyPage Silver badge
    FAIL

    While at the same time having RFK demolishing science ?

    Make your mind up, Mr. Trump. Some people might begin to think you aren't all that clever.

    1. Like a badger Silver badge

      Re: While at the same time having RFK demolishing science ?

      There's always codejunky around to speak up for Flump.

      1. Casca Silver badge

        Re: While at the same time having RFK demolishing science ?

        Oh remember. codejunky has himself said he never defends trump...

  5. alain williams Silver badge

    How about using AI ...

    to improve presidential decision making. Could not do worse than what is currently happening.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How about using AI ...

      Two flies on a dog turd could do better than Trump.

  6. DarkwavePunk Silver badge

    Hmmm

    I wonder how many of these resources will be appropriated from Earth sciences, NOAA etc that the current administration has ideological issues with. More science sounds good, but something is going to get gutted. Also spaffing "AI" all over the place and the mention of large data sets makes my skin crawl.

    1. LionelB Silver badge

      Re: Hmmm

      > Also spaffing "AI" all over the place and the mention of large data sets makes my skin crawl.

      I could be wrong, but I suspect they aren't for the most part talking about LLMs, or any kind of generative AI. More like good-old-fashioned machine learning, which, to be fair, has proved genuinely useful in some research fields.

      1. DarkwavePunk Silver badge

        Re: Hmmm

        You are of course correct on that. "AI" just gets bandied about so much. The stuff like fusion and materials science is ML and useful. We used to call it Data Mining or Big Data and the like. It's more advanced now but the stupid AI umbrella term seems to have stuck. Excuse me while I go and yell at clouds.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Hmmm

          All the Data Mining jobs will go to Pennsylvania - he gets confused and made some promises to Big coal

  7. Tron Silver badge

    Finally, lead into gold, courtesy of Grok.

    Plus everlasting life for billionaires, an electronic Democrat detector and painless hand enlargement.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Land of Confusion

    Great plan! I mean, the seventies never really died after all, they just new-age slept through the eighties with their eyes open, like goat psychics.

    It's high-times we channel that original spirit of Stargate wonderment back into a Genesis revival imho ...

    Paranormal superintelligence rulez, and that's a fact (iiuc)! ... and straitjackets ;)

    1. PhilBuk

      Re: Land of Confusion

      When I first saw the title I thought that they were planning on creating the Star Trek Genesis Device. An attempt to re-seed the USA with ... something smarter than what's currently there.

      Phil.

      1. Bebu sa Ware Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Land of Confusion

        An attempt to re-seed the USA with ... something smarter than what's currently there.

        Pretty much limits the seeding life forms to Archaea then ?

      2. The Bobster

        Re: Land of Confusion

        "Genesis allowed is not! Is planet forbidden!"

      3. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

        Re: Land of Confusion

        Algae?

  9. chivo243 Silver badge
    Coat

    Second, maybe third rate

    the idea and the song...

  10. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

    Ballroom Blitz

    Yet again, that donation to the ballroom pays dividends.

  11. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

    Oh Ohhh

    And when the AI starts telling the truth about Trump will he sussudemall?

  12. MacGuffin

    What a Cryme

    Trump's 'Genesis Mission' will involve an 'Illegal Alien' and their baby 'Mama'. Turn it off again.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It’s science Jim

    But not as we know it

  14. Aladdin Sane Silver badge
    Terminator

    Do you want Skynet?

    Because this is how you get Skynet.

  15. Omnipresent Silver badge

    so long art and science

    Common sense and reason are no longer needed in our new "virtual reality". Survival is decided by who obeys the computer.

  16. Evaluator

    Great but linking the DoE labs' compute fabrics has already been tried and the latency is too high for such fabric links to be useful. WAN is for job control & assignment only.

  17. Jim Preis

    No accolades for the article title? I guess 1980 was a long time ago.

    1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

      I’ve been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that I didn’t really understand any of their work, though on their last album of the 1970s, the concept-laden And Then There Were Three (a reference to band member Peter Gabriel, who left the group to start a lame solo career), I did enjoy the lovely “Follow You, Follow Me.” Otherwise all the albums before Duke seemed too artsy, too intellectual. It was Duke (Atlantic; 1980), where Phil Collins’ presence became more apparent, and the music got more modern, the drum machine became more prevalent and the lyrics started getting less mystical and more specific (maybe because of Peter Gabriel’s departure), and complex, ambiguous studies of loss became, instead, smashing first-rate pop songs that I gratefully embraced. The songs themselves seemed arranged more around Collins’ drumming than Mike Rutherford’s bass lines or Tony Banks’ keyboard riffs. A classic example of this is “Misunderstanding,” which not only was the group’s first big hit of the eighties but also seemed to set the tone for the rest of their albums as the decade progressed. The other standout on Duke is “Turn It On Again,” which is about the negative effects of television. On the other hand, “Heathaze” is a song I just don’t understand, while “Please Don’t Ask” is a touching love song written to a separated wife who regains custody of the couple’s child. Has the negative aspect of divorce ever been rendered in more intimate terms by a rock ‘n’ roll group? I don’t think so. “Duke Travels” and “Dukes End” might mean something but since the lyrics aren’t printed it’s hard to tell what Collins is singing about, though there is complex, gorgeous piano work by Tony Banks on the latter track. The only bummer about Duke is “Alone Tonight,” which is way too reminiscent of “Tonight Tonight Tonight” from the group’s later masterpiece Invisible Touch and the only example, really, of where Collins has plagiarized himself.

      Abacab (Atlantic; 1981) was released almost immediately after Duke and it benefits from a new producer, Hugh Padgham, who gives the band a more eighties sound and though the songs seem fairly generic, there are still great bits throughout: the extended jam in the middle of the title track and the horns by some group called Earth, Wind and Fire on “No Reply at All” are just two examples. Again the songs reflect dark emotions and are about people who feel lost or who are in conflict, but the production and sound are gleaming and upbeat (even if the titles aren’t: “No Reply at All,” “Keep It Dark,” “Who Dunnit?” “Like It or Not”). Mike Rutherford’s bass is obscured somewhat in the mix but otherwise the band sounds tight and is once again propelled by Collins’ truly amazing drumming. Even at its most despairing (like the song “Dodo,” about extinction), Abacab musically is poppy and lighthearted.

      My favorite track is “Man on the Corner,” which is the only song credited solely to Collins, a moving ballad with a pretty synthesized melody plus a riveting drum machine in the background. Though it could easily come off any of Phil’s solo albums, because the themes of loneliness, paranoia and alienation are overly familiar to Genesis it evokes the band’s hopeful humanism. “Man on the Corner” profoundly equates a relationship with a solitary figure (a bum, perhaps a poor homeless person?), “that lonely man on the corner” who just stands around. “Who Dunnit?” profoundly expresses the theme of confusion against a funky groove, and what makes this song so exciting is that it ends with its narrator never finding anything out at all.

      Hugh Padgham produced next an even less conceptual effort, simply called Genesis (Atlantic; 1983), and though it’s a fine album a lot of it now seems too derivative for my tastes. ‘That’s All” sounds like “Misunderstanding,” “Taking It All Too Hard” reminds me of “Throwing It All Away.” It also seems less jazzy than its predecessors and more of an eighties pop album, more rock ‘n’ roll. Padgham does a brilliant job of producing, but the material is weaker than usual and you can sense the strain. It opens with the autobiographical “Mama,” that’s both strange and touching, though I couldn’t tell if the singer was talking about his actual mother or to a girl he likes to call “Mama.” ‘That’s All” is a lover’s lament about being ignored and beaten down by an unreceptive partner; despite the despairing tone it’s got a bright sing-along melody that makes the song less depressing than it probably needed to be. “That’s All” is the best tune on the album, but Phil’s voice is strongest on “House by the Sea,” whose lyrics are, however, too stream of-consciousness to make much sense. It might be about growing up and accepting adulthood but it’s unclear; at any rate, its second instrumental part puts the song more in focus for me and Mike Banks gets to show off his virtuosic guitar skills while Tom Rutherford washes the tracks over with dreamy synthesizers, and when Phil repeats the song’s third verse at the end it can give you chills.

      “Illegal Alien” is the most explicitly political song the group has yet recorded and their funniest. The subject is supposed to be sad—a wetback trying to get across the border into the United States—but the details are highly comical: the bottle of tequila the Mexican holds, the new pair of shoes he’s wearing (probably stolen); and it all seems totally accurate. Phil sings it in a brash, whiny pseudo-Mexican voice that makes it even funnier, and the rhyme of “fun ” with “illegal alien ” is inspired. “Just a Job to Do” is the album’s funkiest song, with a killer bass line by Banks, and though it seems to be about a detective chasing a criminal, I think it could also be about a jealous lover tracking someone down. “Silver Rainbow” is the album’s most lyrical song. The words are intense, complex and gorgeous. The album ends on a positive, upbeat note with “It’s Gonna Get Better.” Even if the lyrics seem a tiny bit generic to some, Phil’s voice is so confident (heavily influenced by Peter Gabriel, who never made an album this polished and heartfelt himself) that he makes us believe in glorious possibilities.

      Invisible Touch (Atlantic; 1986) is the group’s undisputed masterpiece. It’s an epic meditation on intangibility, at the same time it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. It has a resonance that keeps coming back at the listener, and the music is so beautiful that it’s almost impossible to shake off because every song makes some connection about the unknown or the spaces between people (“Invisible Touch”), questioning authoritative control whether by domineering lovers or by government (“Land of Confusion”) or by meaningless repetition (“Tonight Tonight Tonight’. All in all it ranks with the finest rock ‘n’ roll achievements of the decade and the mastermind behind this album, along of course with the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford, is Hugh Padgham, who has never found as clear and crisp and modern a sound as this. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument.

      In terms of lyrical craftsmanship and sheer songwriting skills this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Take the lyrics to “Land of Confusion,” in which a singer addresses the problem of abusive political authority. This is laid down with a groove funkier and blacker than anything Prince or Michael Jackson—or any other black artist of recent years, for that matter—has come up with. Yet as danceable as the album is, it also has a stripped-down urgency that not even the overrated Bruce Springsteen can equal. As an observer of love’s failings Collins beats out the Boss again and again, reaching new heights of emotional honesty on “In Too Deep”; yet it also showcases Collins’ clowny, prankish, unpredictable side. It’s the most moving pop song of the 1980s about monogamy and commitment. “Anything She Does” (which echoes the J. Geils Band’s “Centerfold” but is more spirited and energetic) starts off side two and after that the album reaches its peak with “Domino,” a two-part song. Part one, “In the Heat of the Night,” is full of sharp, finely drawn images of despair and it’s paired with “The Last Domino,” which fights it with an expression of hope. This song is extremely uplifting. The lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I’ve heard in rock.

      Phil Collins’ solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like “In the Air Tonight” and “Against All Odds” (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and “Take Me Home” and “Sussudio” (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of “You Can’t Hurry Love,” which I’m not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes’ original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist—and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s.

  18. This post has been deleted by its author

  19. Wang Cores Silver badge

    So what happens when the PFAS water gets in and causes a fire?

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/nov/11/trump-pfas-forever-chemical-pesticide

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