To 'Infinity' ... and beyond: MX Linux 25 has arrived MX Linux 25 "Infinity" is now available, and the new version has some significant differences from the 2023 release, with things that used to be boot-time choices having become pre-install decisions. Infinity is available in no fewer than seven different downloads. They are all for x86-64: there's no x86-32 edition any more. …
They seem to be offering a migration path to 25 which would make it much more attractive than I thought, done too many fresh installations this year! Otherwise 23 is still in support for a while.
They appear content to disappear under the pile of Ubuntu/Mint by following the crowd, but with the systemd-free option they have potentially bought some time to change their minds.
"That was superseded by cgroups v2 in kernel 4.5, as LWN reported in 2016, and in the current LTS kernel 6.12 cgroups is turned off, which effectively disables the systemd-shim tool that enabled MX's init-switching superpower."
I'm one of these long time Linux users who've never mucked about with the kernel, but why couldn't the MX devs they just switch it on in the kernel? Because that switch thing sounded really handy and helpful.
> I'm one of these long time Linux users who've never mucked about with the kernel
I used to build my own in the '90s but very rarely any more. I do have some ideas I'd like to experiment with, though...
(Automated building of initramfs-free kernels... reviving superfast kexec reboots... diskless VMs...)
> but why couldn't the MX devs they just switch it on in the kernel?
That's a very good question. I spent a little time digging to try to see if this was a feature that's been _removed_ or merely deprecated and disabled. I could not find a clear answer.
> Because that switch thing sounded really handy and helpful.
I agree.
But there may be interwoven cause and effect here... KDE $debian_current is a first class citizen in MX. KDE should not in theory find systemd that essential. KDE runs on non-Linux systems where there's no systemd.
Systemd no longer supports cgroups v1. It mandates cgroups v2. So, to enable systemd-shim, you need a kernel with cgroups v2.
It could be that systemd-shim could be kept alive by turning cgroups 1 back on but that _might limit it to older versions of systemd. And MX will not want to run an _older_ version than Debian ships.
In other words: this is not only or purely a kernel issue; the shim must sit between a given kernel version (from upstream) and a given systemd version (from upstream) and that leaves it nowhere to go, so to speak.
I still think that the MX and antiX people ought to work with the Devuan team... but Devuan will have no time for this shim and won't help there.
I still think that the MX and antiX people ought to work with the Devuan team
+1
I'm still hesitating between Devuan 6 or MX 25 : I need KDE but I don't want systemd. Can I install MX 25 with XFCE and SysV init, and then install KDE on top of it ? Or is KDE tied to systemd even after install ? I couldn't find the answer in any documentation, so if you could mention this, Liam, would be very informative
It's Devuan 7 now.
The help for the package kde-full says:
"This metapackage includes all the official modules released with KDE Sotware
Compilation that are not specific to development and as well other KDE
applications that are useful for a desktop user. This includes multimedia,
networking, graphics, education, games, system administration tools, and other
artwork and utilities."
Or maybe MX should work more closely with AntiX (joke!).
I looked into this a few months ago, and (surprisingly) Devuan seemed a bit "clunky" to me, they even recommend using a "sub"-project, and their installer actually comes from one of those!
The other point is that Debian now seem to be edging closer to supporting alternative init systems - https://wiki.debian.org/Init - the process works if you have the skills and patience to to follow it. I managed to install OpenRC instead of systemd in Trixie.
To get back to your original question, I'd say go Devuan, but being a Devuan user anyway Rice-Davies applies.
IME the Devuan installer is pretty well the same as the Debian installer. and I have, in the past, not selected any GUI at the tasksel stage of installation intending to install KDE from the command line and found it just installed Xfce anyway.
Also IME if you install one DE and try to replace it by another you can spend ages picking bits of the original DE's fluff out of your navel. The worst was in the early days of the great GNOME 2 re-creation & I tried all of them in turn. It might just have been overload and MATE happened to have been the last but I ended up having to do a clean reinstall of the OS after it.
> not selected any GUI at the tasksel stage of installation ... and found [Devuan] just installed Xfce anyway.
Maybe this is dependent on the install media?
E.g. I just did my first ever Devuan install into a test vm using the devuan_excalibur_6.0.0_amd64_server.iso; I deselected all the desktop and X options during Software Selection, checking only "SSH server" and "standard system utilities" like I do with Debian. No X stuff, display manager, or window managers were installed for me.
I haven't tried the _desktop.iso yet, or explored other options where the Devuan installer differs from Debian. More to do, before I could deploy this in the environment here, but initial indicators are okay.
TIL that since my DE is KDE, I have chosen full-fat and first class. x11, I see on the MX website, will be included with KDE in Infinity. ("Wayland is the default session, but X11 is available from the session chooser on the login screen." https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-25-infinity-isos-now-available/ ) I have heard that Kubuntu may drop x11. As a full-fat-first-class flyer who requires Autokey, x2go and other tools broken by wayland, I now must keep my eye out for KDE's that include the x11 option. On my main machine, I'm preparing for a future move from Kubuntu if x11 is dropped. On a backup machine, I've been using Debian KDE (x11) for at least a year, but since I've upgraded it to Trixie, I've experienced brief screen freezes (I'll assume that I'm the one at fault, but I also don't see myself getting to the bottom of the issue), so I'm giving Q4OS Andromeda (Debian 13.1 / Plasma 6.3.6) a try, as it has the x11 option. Would love to have LP take a look at Q4OS KDE (earlier reporting on TDE noted), especially who's behind it. All I know is the development center is in Prague https://www.q4os.org/business.html (as compared to say Asmi, Zorin and Windows, where I have more info about who is involved).
Relatedly, since the author surely shuns the full-fat and first class option, I imagine a gritting of teeth during the typing of "the rapid cycle of releases and new features since [the release of KDE Plasma 6.0] is great to see" in https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/30/kde_65_651/ .
> TIL that since my DE is KDE, I have chosen full-fat
You didn't know that? It's the special Jersey desktop, that comes with a layer of fat floating on top.
> ... and first class.
Bad news. It's on Ryanair. :-D
I mock. It is good at what it does.
> Would love to have LP take a look at Q4OS KDE (earlier reporting on TDE noted), especially who's behind it.
OK, will investigate, in my copious free time. /s
> All I know is the development center is in Prague https://www.q4os.org/business.html (as compared to say Asmi, Zorin and Windows, where I have more info about who is involved).
Sadly, I am not any more. I miss it badly.
> Relatedly, since the author surely shuns the full-fat and first class option, I imagine a gritting of teeth during the typing of "the rapid cycle of releases and new features since [the release of KDE Plasma 6.0] is great to see" in https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/30/kde_65_651/ .
Well, I do try to give credit where it's due. It's an amazing -- I was going to say "bit of software" but that seems inappropriate -- amazing giant suite of loosely-connected tools. I know many love it.
I did once. That's why it makes me sad -- to see my former paramour gone to seed.
I do build a custom kernel for my desktop and laptop machines. No initramfs, and necessary drivers compiled in. The only time I ever made one that didn't boot was when I forgot to include the newfangled SATA disk drivers. That would have been about 20 years ago.
I'm throwing my support behind apps that use AppImage, No worrying if you're running the right distro and have the correct versions of supporting libraries installed. I never have a shortage of RAM or disk space any longer, and no desire to tinker to make things work.
People don't get computers to run an operating system - they want to run applications
And Linus is clear in this video that rule #1 is DON'T BREAK USER SPACE! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&pp=0gcJCR4Bo7VqN5tD
And yet every distro update concentrates on changes that break stuff, in the name of "improvements" .
And then they wonder why there's no "year of the Linux desktop." It's because you keep breaking user space.
Got 2 new 24TB hard drives last night, so I can remove the 2 4 TB drives I had "borrowed"from the 8x4tb mx Linux box which will now be upgraded to freebsd. So my game box will be a 2TB nvme, 3x4tb hd, and 2x24tb hd.
Been using Linux both at work and at home since slakware 3x, but even at work FreeBSD was easier to maintain.
In the future, if someone asks about Linux I'll tell them to wait until next year and get Valve's upcoming Steam Machine. 40,000 Games AND a full desktop experience, no futzing around, no breaking used space. Because every distro insists on "improvements" that take away features and add get another way to do the same thing, but differently, breaking stuff.
And this definitely includes MX, which failed hard at updating a year ago. Even Windows 10 is better now that it's out of support. No more updates that break things, and it runs the programs I want. Because it was never about the OS, but about the user applications.
> why there will never be a year of Linux on the desktop.
Oh, I'm sorry, you missed it.
It started in 2017. That was the first year Chromebooks outsold Macs, in the USA, on value not units so something like 5x the sales volume.
We are well on the way now, and Valve's Steam range launch means that shit is about to get _real_. A new contender has just entered the ring, and they are serious.
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