'Windows sucks,' former Microsoft engineer says, explains how to fix it

Retired Microsoft engineer Dave Plummer has waded into the argument over where Microsoft has gone wrong with Windows, suggesting that perhaps the OS needs a hardcore mode to offset some of its fluffier edges. Plummer comes from what was arguably a golden era for the Windows operating system: the final days of Windows NT 3.5x …

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

If only there was an alternative OS

That did what he asked for and was freely available

[Steve Button]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

That's kinda funny. Was meant to be funny right?

"Plummer's complaints boil down to two main areas: a desire for a hardcore mode that optionally removes all the fluffiness added to the operating system for the benefit of non-technical users, and a combination of transparency and an end to the 'Microsoft knows best' attitude that has plagued recent releases."

I mean, there is another freely available OS which does fit that bill quite nicely. I've heard it's the future. Can you guess what it is?

Clue: It's not OS/2 and it's not FreeBSD.

[VoiceOfTruth]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

If you are going to suggest Linux, I would ask a question and make an observation:

Which Linux distro?

Certain Linux distros are so busy reinventing the wheel and adding ever more complexity that using them requires full time brain input. Linux is full of complex fluffiness, which just boggles the mind compared to how it used to be.

[Lomax]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

> Which Linux distro?

Devuan Excalibur, of course.

[MrRtd]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Init freedom as long as it not systemd. That doesn't sound like very freedom like.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

If you want systemd, god knows why, you can install debian.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

On the contrary, systemd removes freedom. Once you have it you can't switch it off, you can't switch off of it. It locks you in to the systemd way of doing things, it has infected other areas (GNOME, cgroups, udev) such that you're even more locked-in if you must use them, and complicates, perhaps even prevents, their use if you *don't* have systemd.

A new systemd module is another attempt to squash and replace some previously-working piece of Linux, possibly never to be seen again. If you're lucky, the new module isn't strictly required... yet.

It is the definition of embrace and extend.

Any attempt to deviate or point out deficiencies is met with "you're just doing it wrong", and people with valid complaints or criticisms are branded haters, old-fashioned greybeards, or even just _stupid_, people who don't want to learn, etc.

The only practical choice for most people is to pick a different Linux. At least there is a measure of freedom at that level. For now.

[Steve Button]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

All good questions. I use Linux for my job (server) but still have to use Windows (desktop) quite a lot. I have used Mac too a fair bit, and honestly I think all three of them suck, but just for different reasons.

When it comes to using my own personal machine (which I don't use much, perhaps once a week) I tend to dual boot between Ubuntu and Windows 11, and being lazy I tend to go for Windows 11 most often as it's just a bit easier. It's stupid little things like the finger print sensor which works on Windows but not Linux, and I'm really that lazy that I'd rather not type my password if I don't have to. I guess also as I'm forced to use Windows for work it's what I'm most familiar with, and I'm actually getting to quite like it with Terminal and WSL. I know I *should* make the effort to use desktop Linux more often, and I have tried many times, but something usually breaks or just won't work (or almost works, but not quite) and I have to switch back.

[mickaroo]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

I'm 'weaning myself off of Windows'.

I have a mostly stripped Linux Mint as my daily drive, and Windows10 in a VM for those days when I can't find any pins to stick in my eyes.

I'm slowly discarding 'Everything Comes With Copilot' and replacing it with FOSS. It may not be a straight 100% replacement, but it gets the job done.

When I shared my goal with a colleague, I received this reply:

"But Microsoft is the industry standard!"

Stuff that...

[VBF]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

That's like when people point to McDonalds as the "most popular restaurant" or The Sun as the "most popular newspaper" in the UK.

Popularity and quality often do not go hand-in-hand.

Just "IMO" of course!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

I'm surprised you didn't get downvoted into oblivion for your sensible comment.

I too mostly deal with linux at work (server and desktop), and yet choose to use Windows at home.

[mdubash]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

...and, as I've said before in these hallowed halls and been downvoted massively for, it's not really about the OS, its about the apps. If you have apps and games you want to run and don't want to spend fruitless hours (yes, I have) configuring Linux in attempts force it to work, then you just run Windows, as the path of least resistance.

Yes, I do run Linux - but on my servers, not as a desktop. It feels too much like work otherwise.

[Byron "Jito463"]

Still on Windows 10

I get what you mean about little things not working in Linux. I've toyed with it on a laptop of mine, and I still can't get bluetooth headphones working. It throws up an error saying there's no audio endpoint. I worked around it by using an external bluetooth adapter in the headphone jack, but it's frustrating. Give me a Windows machine and I can fix it. I'm not yet that proficient in Linux.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

"Which Linux distro?"

For a first time user, any one, it won't matter that much.

[ecofeco]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Is this a trick question?

The one that works for you, of course. Since they are ALL free, you can try them all out.

[mcswell]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

"The one that works for you, of course. Since they are ALL free, you can try them all out." Life is too short, and I don't live in my mother's basement.

[The Travelling Dangleberries]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

"Is this a trick question?"

As in:

"Now, I want you to be honest. Does my computer look fat in this Linux?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

No. No one's orgasming over distro-talk. No. Let's get stuff done instead of building a Linux box—which ONE works?

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

As a non programmer, Cinnimon Mint has worked out really well. It has its little issues but feels so much like Windows 7 that I've been very happy with it. It's what I would recommend to any Windows user who is not really that technical.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

I lingered on W7 for far too long once it was out of support, bought a laptop with W10 on it, didn't use it as I found W10 vile, put Mint with Cinnamon on my desktop, used that for two years with a few minor grumbles (& a growing nervousness about SystemD brought on by spending too much time here on ElReg) , & installed a systemD-free instance of MX Linux with KDE on the desktop about 2 years ago, & couldn't be happier with it.

Ymmv obviously, but I'd suggest that, as with "the best time to plant a tree is 25 years ago, the second best time is now" so it is with jumping from Windows to Linux.

TL:DR? Start with Mint as there is a vast amount of online support for any problems that you're likely to encounter, & if you find that there are aspects of it that you don't like, make a live USB version of another distro & see if it's a better fit for you, but whatever you do, do it now, because if you do, in a months time you'll have a month's experience of a Windows alternative, rather than another month of worrying about it?

My path was simplified by the general move towards browser-based basic tasks so the worst of the "but will it run under Linux" argument didn't really apply as it would have done five years previously.

The only windows programs I use now both run perfectly under Wine, (MP3DirectCut & IrfanView.) I had intermittent success running Lightroom under wine but eventually it died properly & I switched to darktable which works fine for me, (but I'm a rank amateur who doesn't have any "workflow" to worry about, I just do stuff.)

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

(replying to my own post as past edit time)

Remember that you don't actually need to find "the perfect distro & none other will do" chances are that most of them will be fine, it only has to be better than W11 after all. I'm an ex car mechanic & now a house basher. I have no computing background at all beside a couple of hours of BBC basic in college in the mid 80s. If I can do it you certainly can!

[coredump]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

> Which Linux distro?

I don't really think this is as big a conundrum as some people make it out to be.

I mean sure, if you feel a compulsive need to explore every Linux distro out there in search of the Best One[tm], have fun finding the right needle in that big stack of needles. Please take good notes and share your results with Liam. ;-)

But for most people and typical situations, there will be a handful or so of common options to try, and while it may not ultimately be their "Forever Linux", the first choice probably won't be a bad one.

E.g. websearched for "best linux for newbie" and the first result was "Ubuntu LTS and Linux Mint", which seems like a pretty decent answer.

Next I said "expert" instead of "newbie" and got Arch and Slackware. I'd have figured Debian too, but this result seems reasonable.

Finally I asked for best server Linux distribution, and got Debian and Ubuntu Server. Fair enough.

I could've searched for more archetypes and scenarios but you get the idea. I wouldn't expect those results to be a big surprise here, and while everyone has their favorite distro and there are many(!) differing opinions, perhaps not represented among these answers, I believe this handful of options would be a decent starting point for the basic scenarios I pitched to an internet search engine.

[phuzz]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

To be pedantic... Mint is based on the latest Ubuntu LTS ('Long Term Service') release, and Ubuntu itself is based on Debian.

[coredump]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Sure. But the "newbie" in the websearch example wouldn't know or probably care. To them it's likely more about "look and feel" plus application availability.

The "expert" probably knows the history of the Linuxes in the examples (and more besides).

The point wasn't whether the search engine got the pedigree of the Linuxes correct; rather that it's not really that hard to pick a Linux distribution which is fit for purpose, at least good enough to get started. People with truly specialized needs or more finicky tastes are of course free to keep picking -- there's a wealth of choice. :-)

> ... based on Debian.

Yup. And there was a time when I'd have said Debian was the only answer you need for any scenario. :) And it's still a good one for many, but sometimes things change.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Which is why the act of begging for a "hardcore" mode on Windows... so he does not have to deal with hardcore that is Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Actually, it could well be FreeBSD.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

While there are "distros" of FreeBSD that install straight to a GUI desktop, FreeBSD 15.0 is currently experimenting with an installer option to also do just that in addition to usual install-to-command-line. I'm assuming they will be offering "vanilla" installs of multiple desktop environments.

[bombastic bob]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

as long as it's NOT WAYLAND, sounds good to me!

[gilmoure]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

NetBSD.

Install it on your toaster.

"Anyone want some yummy scrummy toast?"

[Alligator]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

No, I'm a waffle man...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

NetApps doesn't make a Linux desktop.

Oh, waffle, not WAFL. Nevermind, I'll just get my coat....

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

VMS, the OS that WinNT was meant to be

[BinkyTheMagicPaperclip]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Absolutely, you're clearly correct. The only possibility is OpenBSD.

Transparent. Aims are clear. Absolutely zero tolerance to closed source blobs or code. Willing to surgically and mercilessly strip out anything that gets in the way of its aims.

You surely didn't mean that *other* Finn based unix, which is hopelessly taken over by corporate interests, and accepts opaque binary blobs into its browser in order to play protected content video did you? That would be quite laughable.

[Notas Badoff]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

So, in some ways Plummer is saying to Microsoft "Hey you kids, get off my OS!"

Then again, he might be saying something different to us, using exactly the same words?

[DoctorNine]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

The same words can mean radically different things if said by different people or to a different audience. So yes.

[bombastic bob]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Windkiws, starting with "Ape" (8), DOES seem to have been written by "it's OUR turn now, old man" children, from forcing everyone to do things THEIR way and injecting "big brother" into everything, putting those "applets" in "THE STORE", creating cloudy "Microsoft Login", etc. to TURNING A DESKTOP INTERFACE THAT PEOPLE LIKED into a 2D FLATTY FLATSO FLATASS TIFKAM PHONE-LIKE "1.0-ish" USER-HOSTILE INTERFACE!

[Roland6]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

The wry laugh is that if Ken Olsen had Seized the opportunity DEC had in the 1980’s, we could all be using a variant of VMS today, with Windows a interesting sideline, just like OS/2.

[Gene Cash]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

You mean the Ken Olson that said "There is no reason for an individual to have a computer in their home" in 1977?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

He wasn't wrong

[stiine]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

He was wrong, even if it wasn't wrong in 1977*.

(We had a computer at home in 1976.)

[Paul Hovnanian]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

You'll have a terminal. Much like the French Minitel system. Which will communicate with a back end mainframe ... excuse me: Cloud.

We're getting there. Slowly.

[Roland6]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

That’s the one, who’s company made the PDP then went on to make the MicroVax II which made a great personal workstation, that fitted nicely under the desk…Although by then there was Sun running BSD Unix…

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Ken Olsen also stated that PC stood for "Pseudo Computer".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

I'm sorry, but the only alernative is not free and only runs on hardware from a single supplier.

Linux coud become an alternative to Windows when it starts to offer a common, standard GUI system that dosn't look designed by small children.

But penguins are known for not being the smarter animals.

[ecofeco]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

That's weird. You just described Windows.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Yes, but he was actually describing Apple. If Apple built a car it would be fast, comfortable, efficient but only run on 5 percent of the roads.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

But at least it could do corners

[StewartWhite]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

and would cost twice as much.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

But then at least you’d be freed from having to endure penguinhead circle jerks.

[the Jim bloke]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

There is a valid use example of what you describe - and its called railways (except for the fast and comfortable bit)

A real eco system of IT requires diversity - appropriate devices for what they are supposed to do, appropriate user interfaces, and recognition that the user may just know what they need rather than a marketing driven parasitic infestation...

[bombastic bob]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

"a common, standard GUI system that dosn't look designed by small children"

As opposed to the CRAPPY TIFKAM 2D FLATSO-etc. interface used by WINDOWS 8-11 [that looks like it was designed by small children].

I prefer Mate, thanks, with 'TraditionalOK' or similar. Cinnamon is also good last I checked, so long as you use something similar to 'TraditionalOK' on Mate.

And X11 so I can use DISPLAY and run things REMOTELY. *NO* WAYLAND!!!

[everything Adwaita SUCKS but of course GNOME-heads are trying to MS-FORCE that look on EVERYTHING for NO GOOD REASON, so including Wayland, even OSS can "get it wrong" sometimes)

[coredump]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

"But penguins are known for not being the smarter animals."

On the contrary, penguins are clever little sods in their own environment.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

"Linux coud become an alternative to Windows when it starts to offer a common, standard GUI system that dosn't look designed by small children."

Classic marketing ploy. Pick the competition's feature that you're most afraid of - choice of UI - and disparage it as if it's something bad. Pick your own weakness - UI looks like it was designed by small children - and attribute it to the competition.

Completely transparent, of course, once you recognise it.

[Homo.Sapien.Floridanus]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

Dr. Evil: Ok people, ideas…

No. 2: Why not implement a multi-layer menu system and put the most common items in the deepest layers?

Frau Fabrissa: Let’s make the windows borders razor thin and have telemetry sent to us so we can watch as people struggle to grab and size the window.

Scott: Let’s get rid of the fluff, be transparent, and give users what they want.

[everybody laughing]

Dr. Evil: Scott, am I really your father or did your mother have an affair WITH A PENGUIN?

[bombastic bob]

Re: If only there was an alternative OS

with a penguin. Nice!

[TonyJ]

Thumbs up

It's hard not to agree.

Fuck off, Microsoft. It's my computer, my operating system. Let me use it how I see fit.

And yeah, stop trying to send back every fucking detail of what I am doing at any given point. As Dave says - diagnostics data, I can consent to, but I'd also like the option of telling it "No, don't send that report, thanks, as it has confidential customer data in it"

And this constant shitty idea of moving away from the control panel - well it's shitty full stop, but the way it's executed in dribs and drabs. It's bad enough when a setting has moved and/or morphed into something unexpected. It's even worse when it exists in both places.

I'd switch hardcore mode on in a second.

[VoiceOfTruth]

Re: Thumbs up

I agree entirely.

This quote from the article baffled me:

>> a reason why ditching telemetry as a whole isn't realistic.

Maybe I do not want MS to see any of my data. Not one bit of it. It's my data.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Thumbs up

I think it's perfectly okay to send a "core dump" or equivalent when something crashes. You have this option on MacOS – no obligation and thus far I've had no feedback but the way it's handled is fine. Have the same with a few apps as well.

[VoiceOfTruth]

Re: Thumbs up

Suppose that core dump contains private or personal data. What guarantee (and I mean actual guarantee, not MS' word for it) that this could not somehow be used against you? Even if it could not be used, it could still be private. Private = if I share this, I know who I am sharing it with.

[Roland6]

Re: Thumbs up

Remember the original Windows core dump facility did give the user the option to send or not the core dump to MS. Telemetry is always on.

It would be interesting to know how many of the monthly updates/patches owe their existence to analysis of the core dumps/telemetry.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Thumbs up

The original error message stuff came straight from OS/2, where, if you had the manuals, you could look up the error and probably cause.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Thumbs up

Actually, this is something that can be covered by contractual obligation and anywhere with GDPR or similar this will be the case. From the dumps I've seen, however, and the debugging I've been involved with, personal data has never been relevant. What's often gold is the ability to replicate the problem and describe the steps you followed for it to happen. This is usually very banal but useful because it includes the kind of thing that users do that developers never think of.

[retiredFool]

Re: Thumbs up

As a guy who wrote a fairly large product I agree. Nirvana is when the customer would give me the data, along with the replay file that triggered the problem. Often, data was proprietary, so they couldn't go that far. Given the choice of the replay or the core file, I'd take the replay every time. And usually that was the deal as even the dump they might worry data would be embedded in it. The replay's though were usually fine to pass to me. In rare circumstances, if they were local and willing I'd swing by and watch if they could reproduce the error.

And also agree, customers would often do something I never expected, and frankly I appreciated when they would complain and describe the issue either thru the replay or with words. It made the product better. Pure gold.

[bombastic bob]

Re: Thumbs up

assuming their network is never cracked you'll be "safe".

[Nevermind some miscreant hacker group or Micros~1 employee thumbing through everyone's photos looking for blackmail/revenge pr0n]

[chivo243]

Re: Thumbs up

Let's roll back to the amount of telemetry back say when XP was kicking about? Gigs of data being phoned home weekly isn't right*, maybe I need a refund from MS on my internet bill?

*That's on a family member's computer still on Win10!

[The Man Who Fell To Earth]

Re: Thumbs up

While not quite what Plummer wants, adding O&O ShutUp10++ & Open Shell is a partial step towards addressing his complaints.

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu/releases/tag/v4.4.196

[Graham Cobb]

Re: Thumbs up

Anyone have a recommendation of something we could use on my wife's laptop which doesn't make Windows look/behave differently in normal use but which allows me to get a sensible interface, with sensible controls, tools and privileges, good reporting and a good shell, when I am maintaining her PC for her. Like setting up automatic backups to my Linux servers, file-sharing with our home cloud, regular virus scans, scripting things so some things are done at home but not tried when we are away on holiday, etc.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Thumbs up

Ambiguous question: You want / have to keep Windows but with less annoyance? If yes:

Server 2022 or Server 2025 (massgrave if you feel the need to use that, but keys which activate are avail cheap).

Drivesnapshot and/or robocopy.

RDP or RealVNC (last non-cloud version is 5.3.2 from a few years, keygen avail if you know where to search, or use another VNC free avail) behind a wireguard-dyndns VPN on your router.

Good shell since ever powershell got 3.0, default is 5.1 for several years now which behaves the same from Windows 7 up to the newest Server 2025 and is somewhat feature complete, important for admins. Once you get used to object-oriented you don't want to go back to a non OO shell like cmd or bash, only for special cases maybe.

Your home cloud: Come on, there must be a windows client for whatever you use, even "net.exe use" can do webdav, rsync is available for windows too...

Virus scans: Defender is enough. You can uninstall Defender normally on Windows Server and use something else, you don't have to rely on that "Defender detected another AV" mechanics.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Thumbs up

"Like setting up automatic backups to my Linux servers, file-sharing with our home cloud, "

Nextcloud server in a Pi (or whatever server you're already running) and the deskop client which can be set to copy contents of selected directories automatically. The copies are versioned so if that edit accidentally deleted half the file content you can go back to the last good one. Likewise if the laptop should get hit by ransomware the last backup should still be good.

[retiredFool]

Re: Thumbs up

Oh man, this. If I could give you 1000 up votes I would, one will have to suffice.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Have to watch the video tomorrow...

...to see whether he suggests using the Server version to easily get rid of most nonsense.

[Potemkine!]

He is so right

All he says is true. MS went crazy after Windows 7. They made a step back from craziness with Windows 10 but it was just a short break before setting off again with renewed vigour.

[DoctorNine]

Re: He is so right

With Windows 10, you could mostly stop the dog chewing on itself by constructing a registry cone around its head. Windows 11 though, is M$'s latest attempt to ensure we are unable to stop it gnawing a hole in its rear end, and not only that, there are freaking cameras in the room to record us even trying to do so. I can't even.

[bryces666]

Re: He is so right

Telemetry is on steroids now with Windows 11.

I just watched this video about the tpm chip, they know who you are and what you are up to...

https://youtu.be/t1eX_vvAlUc?si=W5ZT9S0eSVBmNtiX

[Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck]

Re: He is so right

My favourite quote was "... the operating system feels like a sales channel for all their other properties." Bang on. Dead bang on.

I came back after a break to find the OS had "helpfully" started Edge to display an "Install YouTube?" page.

No I do NOT want to )%&@$)%% install YouTube, and I don't want god damned Edge running on my system - EVER!

[IGnatius T Foobar !]

I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

In the video, Plummer calls for an "expert mode" in Windows that takes all of the fluff out of the way and lets the user just get things done directly. What he misses is that cloud services are what makes Microsoft most of its money these days, and Windows is just a delivery system that pushes ads and nudges the user to effect uptake of those cloud services. They do it because they have to. That's the only way the Windows business model still works.

The "get out of the way and get it done" operating system already exists in Linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

Did he really call for Systemd, a rusting kernel, license legal nightmare, and childish infighting?

[Charlie Clark]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

You left out the endless room of GUI toolkits…

[bombastic bob]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

well at least we have a UI choice in Linux, and some choices (like Mate with TraditionalOK) are WAY better than TIFKAM!

knowing which to choose can be a bit overwhelming for n00bs...

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

"You left out the endless room of GUI toolkits…"

One of the strengths, of course.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

There's Linux. And there's SystemD Linux :-p

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

If there is an OS where settings are scattered all around the system in thousands of different formats, that's Linux.

Linux is a bad OS too, with an outdate design and lack of real improvemetns. If for a server OS is somewhat acceptable - as long as you don't need something like Active Directory, for a desktop OS is a jump in the past. Windows 3.1 was better. Even many DOS applications where better with CUA UIs. Basically Linux brought IT back forty years.

If it wasn't free, nobody would be using it.

[vtcodger]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

The Windows registry would require comprehensive documentation -- which it doesn't have, has never had, and probably will never have -- to even begin to approach the utility of the Unix application specific configuration files.

[bombastic bob]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

True. Although there IS documentation, a lot of it is hard to find (and probably INCOMPLETE). MSDN docs used to be like reading an actual a book, where the info you needed was RIGHT THERE, but NOW it is like a circle-jerking click bait website that charges per visited link...

[hx]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

I think we just found Lennart Puttering's alt.

[desht]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

Memo to kmorwath: it isn't 1995, and this isn't comp.os.linux.advocacy. Although you do resemble the Windows trollboys who liked to hang out in that newsgroup.

[bombastic bob]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

If it wasn't free, nobody would be using it.

Android phones are based on Linux, and iOS and OS/X both use a Mach (UNIX) kernel similar to BSD. Apple also forked the FreeBSD 5 user applications for use in OS/X, and the gnu versions in Linux are very similar.

Last I checked nobody is using Windows on phones or slabs. Only OS's REALLY being used are Android (Linux) and iOS except for a few cheapie flip phones (like mine) that are just phones.

So what were you saying about nobody using Linux...?

[Eric 9001]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

Android phones are arguably based on GNU (as GNU/Linux is what Android is developed on, same as Android software) - although no GNU software is included by default in the produced images (although there's places left in want of GNU - for example Android supports bash as a system shell).

Mach was never a Unix kernel and is not similar at all to BSD kernel's - it was a microkernel design that has only some parts that are Unix-like.

While Apple did copy Mach, they made extensive modifications to it.

It seems Apple did not fork any "Free"BSD user applications - rather they copied the runtime libraries and made extensive modifications; https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Darwin/Conceptual/KernelProgramming/BSD/BSD.html

In the past, Apple did include some GNU software for use in OSX, but not anymore.

GNU predates Linux - Linux is rather in GNU and there really is only one release of GNU packages - the only real differences is which packages a GNU/Linux distro includes and which versions are installed.

The only similarity GNU has to BSDs and OSX is that it uses a Unix-like design.

Writing about "using Linux" is like talking about riding metal objects, instead of stating what vehicle is being driven - for example riding a restricted bicycle (using Android), or driving a car (using LiGNUx).

[Eric 9001]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

Linux isn't even an OS.

In most cases, system wide configuration files are in /etc/ and per user config files are in $HOME/.config (although some programs cannot help but to use different parts - but that really doesn't matter).

GNU made substantial improvements over 40+ year old Unix, which was full of arbitrary size limitations and crashes - just because the concept of a modular design is ancient doesn't mean that it is outdated.

While Linux doesn't implement that proprietary windows protocol, Samba does implement Active Directory functionally better than windows.

windows 3.1 was a joke and due to DOS limitations, no DOS software is any good when compared to TUI programs implemented with GNU ncurses.

GNU made it possible for IT to go back to freedom despite all the complaining.

Linux isn't even free - it's proprietary software.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

"GNU made substantial improvements over 40+ year old Unix, which was full of arbitrary size limitations and crashes "

Arbitrary size limits. Do you mean ulimit? Unix was designed to be used as a multiuser system. System managers might need to use it to ration limited resources. Maybe you don't remember when 1.6Gb was a big, BIG disk. It's still in Linux but there's a reason you've never seen it used. Do you mean the default 10 process limit? I remember seeing that once in 1986. Generally the stuff that was there to make it possible to run Edition 7 or the like on 3/4 Mb memory ad tiny disks faded away.

Crashes? Application core dumps - of course. That's down to the application developer. Kernel panics, not so much. The one really crashy system I remember back in 1999 was down to a dodgy memory module*. I drove a lot of Unix variants back in the day. After SCO decided** to divert their efforts into litigation instead of development Linux was the alternative to running a Unix-like environment of PC H/W. I'm sorry to say that with gimmicks like systemd GNU are working to enshittify it.

* A bit traumatic. I was installing S/W on a cliant's client's system in Italy. The client's client didn't want be to leave until we had a clear run and I was due to fly back. I think it likely that the extra S/W was pushing up the memory requirement ant it was the first time the dodgy module had come into play. Fortunately it ran once & I managed to get away. The client had to sort out the H/W later.

** I often wonder how far they were being deliberately led on by Microsoft. SCO had been a great server OS for SMBs. If it wasn't deliberate it was extremely serendipitous to accidentally get SCO to take their eye off the ball while MS moved into the server market.

[Eric 9001]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

I don't mean ulimits - Unix data structures had arbitrary limits that were very low;

- Filenames lengths were arbitrary limited to 8 bytes and then 14 bytes; https://web.archive.org/web/20250529020934if_/https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/UnixEarlyFilenameLenghts

- Lines more than ~80 bytes long were silently truncated with a newline; http://xahlee.info/UnixResource_dir/writ/truncate_line.html (for example in Unix ps, tar and tsch).

- From large files, sometimes only n number of bytes, or n number of bytes at a time would be read into memory - which would prevent software like grep from working properly.

- Non-ASCII characters were silently dropped, meaning character sets like UTF-8 couldn't work - sometimes even NULL characters were dropped, corrupting even ASCII data.

- Unix socket parts are limited to ~100 bytes (this limitation still exists in Unix's); https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/367008/why-is-socket-path-length-limited-to-a-hundred-chars

GNU's Not Unix made it a policy to not have such arbitrary limitations; https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/Semantics.html which made it a lot more robust and reliable than Unix's; https://www.gnu.org/software/reliability.en.html

Most Unix's have now finally reduced or eliminated such arbitrary limitations in order to compare to GNU - but all are still functionally lacking.

One of the few similarities of the kernel, Linux to proprietary Unix kernels is how it has an arbitrary limit of 255 bytes for file names and 4096 bytes for PATH_MAX; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems?useskin=monobook#Limits which is high enough for most cases, but occasionally you can end up with a path that GNU software has no problem handling, but Linux cannot.

ulimit is intended to share resources between many users of a system or to prevent buggy software from overloading or hanging the system, but due to Linux's bad habit of by default telling glibc that 1TB of memory is available in response to a mmap() call and then proceeding to lock up when the software tries to use 16GB of memory, ulimit fails to achieve that.

While ulimit has an option of limiting the amount of memory per user, such function is mostly useless, as buggy memory hungry software like monerod, that for example allocates ~2TB of memory, but only generally uses 8GB of RAM, but will happily slowly exhaust system memory when hit by a DoS (with the OOM reaper nowhere to be found, as apparently recovery from that state was deemed possible, despite 24+ hours of total lockup), cannot be limited to 10GB of RAM via ulimit, as it will fail to start if malloc() fails.

>Linux was the alternative to running a Unix-like environment of PC H/W

The replacement to Unix was GNU with Linux added - but even back then of course even back then, many people referred to LiGNUx as "Linux" and considered themselves "Linux users" and refused to work with GNU (which was shocking at the time, as even BSD developers would work with GNU).

GNU doesn't do any work on systemd (GNU's init is GNU shepherd), but systemd does utilize GNU a lot.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

> Most Unix's have now finally reduced or eliminated such arbitrary limitations in order to compare to GNU - but all are still functionally lacking.

Dear Mr Raymond.

Unix systems had relatively low limits for things in the past due to the size and limitations of hardware at the time. Just about all unix systems grew these limits as hardware improved.

GNU is a marvellous endeavour, but this has NOTHING to do GNU.

[druck]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

Linux isn't even free - it's proprietary software.

WTF are you on?

[Eric 9001]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

I'm on pure unadulterated freedom.

Yes, despite the irony, the poster child of "open source" is not even completely source-available!

Linux contains completely undocumented init tables without a single comment, programs disguised as arrays of numbers, obfuscated sources (to be fair, many source code parts of Linux are arguably obfuscated, as the developers have the bad habit of usually not including needed comments) and there is a massive collection of proprietary software programs without source code that cannot be anything but part of Linux that is maintained and developed by Linux developers (for the practical reason of how massive binary blobs tend to pollute the git history, such proprietary software is stored in the "linux-firmware.git" repo).

[druck]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

Try mixing it with some tobacco next time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I watched the video. He's basically describing Linux.

:-D"If there is an OS where settings are scattered all around the system in thousands of different formats, that's Linux.":-)

[Lomax]

Windows on Hardcore

Also known as Linux.

[Cereberus]

The last line

"So, does Windows suck," he asks rhetorically. "Only when it forgets who it's working for…"

I think he may have forgotten, Windows works for Microsoft. You are the user, you are the payment for using, you should be grateful you are allowed to give Microsoft everything they want.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The last line

Well, there are 25 (at this time) people who didn't watch Dave's video.

[wolfetone]

Already exists.

Hardcore mode? That's called Linux. Or *BSD.

Fluffy mode? macOS.

Job jobbed. Next!

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Already exists.

MacOS is pretty good for most things – I spend a lot of time in the Terminal – but settings has been taking on an increasingly MS look over the last few versions as Apple try and shoehorn the IOS UI into MacOS. The current list of items for me on MacOS 25 (Sequoia): WiFi; Bluetooth; Networking; VPN; Battery; General; Accessibility; Screensaver; Apple Intelligence & Siri; Displays; Appearance; Background; Control Centre; Desktop & Dock Spotlight…

It goes on but I hope you get the idea that it's a bad mix of low-level and arbitrary grouping, so some permissions are security – much further down – but some of them are in Accessibility and I can never remember which. Doesn't matter anyway, because they'll probably change in the next version!

[tatatata]

[...] due to the blessing and curse of Windows's obsession with backward compatibility.

All those who jumped on the Silverlight bandwagon will question this statement. Many scanners and other devices have prematurely been thrown away because the lack of backwards compatibility. And of course, the stance on backward compatibility with hardware has led to enormous landfill of perfectly good PCs and laptops.

[dmesg]

That backward compatibility may be there, or at least a design goal, for supporting applications. But it sure ain't there for users' workflows, troubleshooting procedures, and muscle memory. Legacy file formats, too.

[Doctor Syntax]

I thought it was there to support badly coded games that had use after free in them so they wouldn't upset that particular set of punters.

[steelpillow]

Does Windows suck?

> "OnlyExcept when it forgets who it's working for…"

Fixed that for you.

[Del Varner]

The philosphy behind modern computing

This goes for so much these days for devices that have embeded computers. Cars, Televisions, Phones, almost anything in the IoT. "You will own nothing and be happy" You may "own" the hardware, but in reality you only rent the software. As many have said--You are the product.

[GoneFission]

Re: The philosphy behind modern computing

He really hit the nail on the head with the OS being just another vehicle to deliver ads and data harvesting methods onto the consumer.

Why make a thing that performs a single feature reliably, when you can wirelessly update it at any time to spam the user, force them to engage with your "GenAI" offering to juice metrics and bill them monthly for the privilege? They're going to use it either way, if your only incentive is profit at all costs you might as well drain them for all they're worth.

[StinkyMcStinkFace]

The last reasonably good version of Windows was XP. That's when we started to see the evil in Microsoft starting to manifest.

It started with licensing and activation. Everything was gradually, step by step, being shifted away from the user's control, over to Microsoft's control.

The elephant in the room isn't failures in Windows. It is MICROSOFT. The company stopped being about delivering products, it has joined all the other corporations in the single goal of complete control of, and spying on their "users". I wouldn't even call them customers, "livestock" would be a better term for them.

Everything is FORCED. You can get on your knees and beg the overlords to delay this "update" for a month, but make no mistake, you WILL submit to the will of Microsoft.

I mean come on, the Windows 11 fiasco is so painfully obvious, and Microsoft's demand that everyone login to a microsoft account. How can ANYONE not see what is going on.

F THAT!

[martinusher]

I'd actually say NT4 rather than XP. That was a real OS with a Posix compliant kernel, if I recall correctly.

You can see how modern marketing works by the floating of the term 'tenant' to describe customers. In a sense we're reverting right back to the earliest days of data processing where Herman Hollerith figured that selling tabulators wasn't anything like as lucrative as leasing them.

[Jamie Jones]

I agree.

NT4 was the only version of windows I've used that I could cope with. It had the cleanest interface. It all started going downhill when they tried to turn it into the "consumer" version of windows with XP etc,

All NT4 needed was stability fixes, security fixes, and appropriate driver support, and it would be my choice of windows today if I still used windows.

[Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch]

And once again there's this fallacy that the user is the consumer. Micros~1 gets whatever they have been able to strong-arm the PC manufacturer and their employer into shelling out for the OS licence. That's peanuts compared to what they're being paid for the analytics. Users are the product.

Telemetry is what spacecraft send back to Mission Control. Micros~1 don't control the mission of their user base. If Neil, Buzz and Michael choose to set forth for Alpha Centauri, there ought not be a damn thing MS could do about it - but how sure could anyone be that there is not?

[Eric 9001]

The evil in microsoft manifested from the very start.

The whole idea of microsoft is that it is believed that maximum profits can be achieved if microsoft controls the user, via the software controlling the user.

From an early stage, Bill Gates showed how evil he was by publishing the "open letter to hobbyists", complaining that hobbyists had dared made microsoft BASIC popular via distribution of copies without making a payment for every single copy.

Most of the money microsoft made from MBASIC was because businesses that sold computers determined that MBASIC was the most popular BASIC and therefore went and purchased copies from microsoft to include it with the computers.

That letter even claims that writing MBASIC "cost $40,000 of computer time" but Billy boy didn't pay for that - rather the US taxpayer paid for the PDP-10 computer time at Harvard and of course Gates insisted that he deserved money for copies of software already paid for by the taxpayer.

The only money paid was for time on a commercial time share computer to finalize the software - which was needed as Harvard eventually found out about the development of such software that would negatively impact humanity and said no.

All microsoft software was controlled by microsoft from the very start - although in recent years microsoft has stopped pretending that the user has any control and is steadily adding more and more malicious features.

[Benny Cemoli]

>>" . . . and Microsoft's demand that everyone login to a microsoft (sic) account."

Everyone login to Microsoft account? Really? Odd then that from the day I started using Windows 11 I've been using a Local Account and have _never_ been forced to log into a Microsoft Account to use Win11. Yes, Microsoft would really, really like me to sign in to a MS account and recommends that I do so but Microsoft hasn't _forced_ me to so I haven't and won't. And it doesn't seem to make a bit of difference in how Win11 operates. It does what I need it to do and I'm fine with it as it is. That is all.

EoT

[David Hicklin]

> Local Account and have _never_ been forced to log into a Microsoft Account to use Win11.

They are making it ever harder to get away from.

I think Enterprise versions will have a get out as they use a domain logon but for home users the doors are closing

[Anonymous Coward]

So far as I've noticed it's only the home version where they make it increasingly difficult. On Pro / Enterprise / Education you just select the option to domain join it - which actually creates a local account and doesn't domain join (you have to do that later if you need to).

[Doctor Syntax]

AFAICR XP was where activation started so on that basis the last good version was W2K.

[Boris the Cockroach]

Its

almost as if m$ GUI designers have thrown away the guidebooks to good consistant GUI design carefully written at the start of the mouse/keyboard/screen era of computering. and then got the crayons out, handed them to some random 5 year olds, then implemented whatever the five year olds drew.

The old control panel might have been old and clanky, but click on devices and it shows something is not right straight away, click on the error message and see that a device driver for the printer is missing rather than m$ going "let me help you with that" spinning a wheel for 5 mins, then saying "I cant fix the fault.. heres some web searches I did advertising a new washing machine"

I suspect (and maybe I'm not the only one) that m$ are unhappy at their income from selling windows/orafice licences and are trying to move everyone to a subscription type service where you rent access to windows monthly, it stores all your data in a m$ cloud, and forcing you to continually pay m$ for access to your own data as a result(and dont try not paying ..... after all... it would sad if something............. happened...... to your data wouldn't it)

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Its

Would you like me to summarise that for you…

Boris said he would prefer to use a crayon on his computer…

[Boris the Cockroach]

Re: Its

I'd hand the crayons to you, but you'd just eat them :p

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Its

For some reason I think people missed my intended irony…

[David Hicklin]

Re: Its

> are trying to move everyone to a subscription type service where you rent access to windows monthly, it stores all your data in a m$ cloud, and forcing you to continually pay m$ for access to your own data

That is the M$ wet dream - a guaranteed regular income, users locked in and no pirated copies

[Ishura]

Re: Its

You're not kidding about it being inconsistent, even when it comes to wording. The Windows version of Teams has an option to "Quit Teams". Other Windows software uses "exit": "quit" is the Mac term.

[Anonymous Coward]

gentle grazers being harvested

The explosion of internet crime can surely be traced to all the data gathering. Without that you are just random unknowns,a sea of similar things,bit like those fish that swim in a swarm and bolt in every direction while the seal tries to swallow one.

Now we are all plankton,swallowed in a mighty gulp by some fat old whale called tech bro billionare.

Autorities are powerless,as they want their dumb kids to get internships.

So the world goes to shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

It needs a "it's my fucking operating system not yours" mode - where I configured the OS to my liking, and not have it spy on me, or force me to use Edge every 6 months, or integrate the new Clippy into every application against my wishes.

Oh, who am I kidding.

https://www.debian.org/

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian? Have the ditched systemd then?

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

And here it is ...

Of course, the Linux fanboys have to come in and claim that Linux is The Way and The Light . . . and then immediately fall to bickering about systemd.

[ecofeco]

Re: And here it is ...

As sure as the sun rises.

I far prefer Linux over Windows, but Sys D has no effect to me on a daily working basis.

Does all my hardware work? Does it communicate without a lot of faffing about? Do I have to worrying about weekly updates borking everything? Why do I even need weekly updates? Is my OS spying on me?

That's the real world. Computers are tools. They either get the job done or not. I care not if the turbo-encabulator has a new spurving bearing or not, as long as it keeps working without being a daily fiddly mess.

[Excused Boots]

Re: And here it is ...

You know, the above post does make perfect sense, especially the last paragraph ‘computers are tools for doing a job;’ No more, no less.

They prefer Linux over Windows, fine, their choice, it works for them. But they have had one downvote (at times of posting); why? What was so bad about their view that it merited a downvote?

Was it a Windows/Microsoft fanboy, surely not a SystemD evangelist?

[Jakester]

Re: And here it is ...

I use both Linux and Windows (mostly Linux). The reason I use mostly Linux is it makes an excellent, easy to maintain server and a very responsive desktop system even with old computers. I use Windows for a few applications and to copy files from my Google Drive to copy to my server so they can be backup-up. Windows just happens to be superior for those particular tasks and Linux is superior for other tasks. So am I a Windows fanboi and a Linux fanboi? Each OS has its strengths and weaknesses.

I don't get into the battle of systemd vs not systemd. I don't notice any reliability or performance issues between the two configurations.

Oh, I also use Android for some tasks that just aren't available in Linux or Windows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And here it is ...

I've been using Linux for decades now and every time I hear somebody mention systemd I do wonder why they obcess about it.

Systemd has zero impact on me, it never has. It never pops up on my radar, ever!. Linux and the distro I use just do what I want it to do and I love it's so reliable, most of the time but for one thing ..

You know what does bug me though. The broken installation process that's Epson2 for scanners. Once it works it's an excellent but of software for using Epson scanners, but boy does it take a lot of faffing about on the command line to make it work. It's available in the repository as click to install, just broken. Is it a distro packaging problem, most likely yes. Does anybody else have this same problem or is it just on the three systems I've tried it on? Sorry, went off topic there.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And here it is ...

Well, you are not a sysadmin. You're an end user. And that's fine.

If a bunch of mechanics moan about changes to the engine, that's irrelevant to me as long as the car works the same. After all, it's not me that fixes it.

And as a car driver and not a mechanic, I'd not go onto a mechanics forum and say I wonder why the mechanics obsess about it as it doesn't impact me.

Maybe you forgot what site you were posting on?

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: And here it is ...

> After all, it's not me that fixes it.

Ah, such a nice classical AC argument. You should know who pays for the fixes, including how often those fixes have to be done due to the shitty quality of the engine you mentioned the mechanic complains about.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And here it is ...

You are proving my point. I made the example that way to make a closer analogy. It was the original poster who made the "i don't care, it works for me" point.

Anyway, don't lump all AC's the same - that's racist or something :)

[MSArm]

Re: And here it is ...

And bicker about which distro is best. Or which display system is best. Or which kernel programming language is best.

Linux will never take over the desktop because there's no cohesion amongst the self-pleasuring Linux crowd.

[ParlezVousFranglais]

If O/Ss were airlines - for those who've never seen it...

https://www.webaugur.com/bibliotheca/field_stock/os-airlines.html

[FuzzyTheBear]

"You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?" LOL that's so totally right on the money. Good link.

[JamesTGrant]

MacOS with Brew and Linuxify…

[Omnipresent]

Ah ha! my dear engineer

Mr. Microneer has forgotten a crucial part of the equation.

Microsoft was made for enterprise, not individuals. It was never intended or promise individual rights or privacy. It was intended to be used by business, and business intends to harvest you dry.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Ah ha! my dear engineer

Have I understood you correctly?

1. There is no such thing as a Home edition for private individuals.

2. If private individuals were do get their data slurped that would be a bad thing but as there's no such thing as a Home version for individual users they really shouldn't be using it.

3. Either

3.1 Enterprises for whom Windows is solely intended don't have any information that is regarded as confidential so there's nothing to slurp

or

3.2 It doesn't matter if confidential information gets slurped

[Roland6]

Re: Ah ha! my dear engineer

MS-DOS and Windows 3, 95, 98 and ME, were all a personal( ie. Single user) OS with multi-user logins bolted on with no real security or privacy between user accounts. “Enterprise” considerations were some way down the road and only really began to take shape with the development and release of NT.

[David-M]

They lost the plot a good many years ago.

Perhaps the transition from the old Office 2003 to the ribbon of 2007 is an approximate time to place it, respectively representing the old "the user defines how they want it to be" to "we'll decide it for the user".

But it's more than that. When the default windows now have white edges so you cannot tell where your window ends and the one behind begins you know there is some serious illness come about.

[Annihilator]

I think I posted this the other day, but having recently reluctantly "upgraded" to Win 11, my biggest, easiest example of what he's talking about is in the Start menu. I've disabled the "recommended" element of the Start menu, because why on earth would I want it?

The result? In the middle of the Start menu is a blank section that says:

"Recommended - to show your recent files and new apps, turn them on in settings <link to settings>"

[ThatOne]

> I've disabled the "recommended" element of the Start menu, because why on earth would I want it?

Recurring comment, recurring answer: You might not want it, but those who did put it there want it, it's where they can put their ads for paying programs and services and be sure nobody will miss them.

The fundamental error is to think Windows is to serve you. It's only there to serve Microsoft's bottom line by trying to "monetize" you and convince you to buy stuff. Yes, it's sad when one remembers the old Windows, when it was still an OS and not just an exercise in arrogance... :-(

[MilSpec]

Dave's way of looking at computing, zooming from experienced big picture to mico management view in an instant is a joy to follow on YouTube. If you ever ponder just why tf we do things the way we do, his rapid brief explanations of the history leading right up to where we are now and his insights into where it's leading to are worth catching.

[powershift]

Except that MS doesn't care about "Expert Mode".

There is no money in it and he should know that so its just click bait is all. What he could do is move people to Debian Trixie for clicks and attention. Its free as in freedom and free all around.

[billdehaan]

The problem isn't Windows, it's Microsoft

Back in the early 1990s, the fight for OS dominance was between OS/2 and Windows. Apple was busy making itself irrelevant, and Unix vendors weren't a viable option for the home market.

In a technical comparison, OS/2 beat Windows in almost every way. And yet OS/2 was steamrolled by Windows, and within 4 years, IBM threw in the towel.

Although there were lots of conspiracy theories, the simple fact was that it wasn't Windows that beat OS/2, it was IBM's treatment of OS/2, and the OS/2 user base that did it. IBM viewed consumers as defective corporations rather than customers. They rejected user criticisms and suggestions for improvements, and instead told customers the OS was right, and they were wrong.

I read both IBM's and Microsoft's respective releases for the operating systems. Microsoft talked about system features, improvements, and end-user benefits, where IBM talked about licencing, distribution, centralized auditing, and control. In one 14 page writeup, IBM never used the word "user" a single time, talking only about "seats", instead.

And that's what Microsoft is doing today. Invasive telemetry is a benefit to data brokers Microsoft can sell user data to, not the end user. Likewise, advertisements in the start menu are a boon to advertisers, not the user sitting in front of the computer. And shoehorning AI into everything, even AI, is not something that customers asked for.

Unlike 25 years ago, the consumer operating system market is very mature now. For the general user, there's not much that can be done on MacOS that can't be done on Windows, or Linux, or vice versa.

Back in 1992, Windows 3.1 was technologically inferior to OS/2, never mind Linux. Today, that's not really true. Windows is just as mature and capable as MacOS or Linux. The differentiator is no longer the technical merits of the system, but the priorities, such as privacy, and data collection. That's where Microsoft is losing, not because of bad OS foundations.

[Eric 9001]

Re: The problem isn't Windows, it's Microsoft

There is in fact a lot that can be done on LiGNUx that cannot be done on windows or macos without at least installing a port of GNU.

windows' design has severe deficiencies that results in it being nowhere near as capable as GNU.

[Blackjack]

Windows is in fact not as mature as Linux, it is an unstable frankesteined mess that seems to botk at least one third of the time with each update.

Yes we are in an era were Linux handles updates way better that Windows does.

Even Windows 98 infamous "must reinstall every X months because everything is borked" problems it had before Windows 98 SE were not as painful as Windows 11 is.

And I said that as someone who had to reinstall Windows 98 at least two months in average and the instalation wasn't exactly fast on the computer I had back then until 98SE made things more stable.

[Burgha2]

Who has a choice anyway

I'd guess 90% of people have zero choice as to the OS they use most of the time.

Heck, I can't remember the last job where I was even able to install software on "my" computer.

[bombastic bob]

Re: Who has a choice anyway

opposite for me. I usually bring my own device running FBSD or Linux because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get things done on a windows machine.

Examole: doing embedded development on a linux OS board (like RPi for example), and I need to build, edit, and debug software on that board to develop efficiently, SO I use a Linux or FreeBSD laptop running an XOrg-based desktop (like Mate), use "xhost" to allow connecting to the laptop, and "export DISPLAY=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:0.0" on the embedded board (via ssh or serial port, whichever) then run editors like pluma with the display and input on my laptop (generally much bigger than an embedded device's display, if it even has one). And so on.

Often BOSS sees it as SO efficient he finds an older desktop for me to install Linux on, and I bring in a CD or USB drive with the latest net installer on it, and nuke windows off of the box, set it up for embedded Linux development, and leave it on 7/24 to be accessed remotely by me using an ssh tunnel back to my home office.... and so on.

[Sorry that handle is already taken.]

"how to fix it"

I was hoping this would be some configuration advice or third party software to beat it into line but instead the solution requires Microsoft to do something it's definitely not going to do. Little disappointing.

[mmonroe]

Windows 3.11

Maybe Microsoft should have stopped with Windows 3.11? My biggest complaint with Windows, apart from the primitive UI, is whenever a new version is released, you have to jump through hoops to switch things off. Also, sometimes things just appear for no reason, for example the diagonal blue arrows to indicate a compressed file. There was already an option in file explorer to indicate a compress file, which you could turn on or off with a check box. The blue arrows required hacking the registry.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Windows 3.11

No, Below the user interface crap, the actual OS, has a lot of very good decisions. Some not so good (Spooler runs as SYSTEM? still? NT 4.0 Printer drivers on kernel level?), but overall a lot good.

The UI-on-top-of-DOS was destined to go, and with win95 DOS got more a bootloader until the actual Win32 drivers took over.

[Roland6]

Re: Windows 3.11

But HP NewWave probably spoilt it, for Microsoft, by totally replacing the MS Program Manager and desktop. Hence why in W95 MS embedded the Program Manager in Windows so it could not be replaced and thus allow a third-party dictate how a user used Microsoft’s product.

[David Hicklin]

Re: Windows 3.11

They really should have stopped with Vista SP1 aka Windows 7, that was the last good one for me.

Problem is that companies have to have product line refreshes and updates very now and again or they will be perceived as boring by the stick markets. And don't forget the Wintel alliance of forcing hardware upgrades when there is no real need to do so any more.

I do wish places like the EU had really got down hard on environmental computer tech waste - it would have made the win11 TPM move a lot more difficult (or expensive)

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Windows 3.11

> They really should have stopped with Vista SP1 aka Windows 7, that was the last good one for me.

There was a Vista Sp2...

[[e-mail]]

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride"

Let's face it. A "hard core" version of money would not increase Microsoft shareholder values.

[[e-mail]]

Re: If wishes were horses, beggars would ride"

He he! > meant to say "a hard core version of Microsoft Windows", but instead I typed "version of money". My slip illustrates the problem though.

[Robigus]

"suggeation"

[an.other_tech]

BSOD

Why is the error log so bloated, and when you have to dig into it, it takes ages to find out what the heck it is. But then that's not the end of it, oh no, we're just scratching the surface. A memory error, that turns out to be some weird driver or dll issue, that even if you sort it, it flags up again, and you then go round in circles trying to make an unstable collection of drivers that you'll never use, didn't really want, and certainly don't need that performa magic, until it crashes at the worst possible time.

I've gone up to my ears into Windows, heck I studied NT both 3.5 and 4 to the point I was able to almost recite it in my sleep.

yes every driver had to be approved, yes it was a pain to find stuff sometimes, and even the install screen said, "do not use for critical systems".

That should have been our wake up call.

[Grunchy]

To me, operating systems are irrelevant. I run Virtual Machine Manager to manage all my guest OSes, clones, and snapshots (the host is Linux Mint, which passes through my GPU for each guest to commandeer). Each guest exists solely to provide an environment for an “app.” The VMM encapsulates each app plus its environment. I run the original “GhostSpectre” defeatured Windows with no Microsoft account, no internet access, no updates, no garbage. There’s one master and numerous clones.

If I need to use the internet for email or whatever, I have another guest OS running another Linux Mint. On all my Mac Win Solaris guests I have no updates, no antivirus, no viruses, no more baloney.

[Roland6]

> To me, operating systems are irrelevant.

MS understood this back in the early 2000’s and much of what they have done to Windows has been to keep the OS and their brand in people’s minds as if it were important. Otherwise MS would not be able to earn the revenues it currently has…

[ThatOne]

Clearly left Microsoft a *long* time ago...

> No more nudging, no more "consider using Microsoft this or that", and no web search in local search unless asked for.

So Windows should relinquish its only reason to be, peddling stuff? Sure, will happen.

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> Then there is control, which should be centralized in a single location.

In Microsoft Headquarters. Done.

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> as Plummer notes, there are legitimate reasons for telemetry

Making some more money, we know. But we don't have to like it.

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> where the operating system feels like a sales channel for all their other properties

Aha, realization dawns...

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> "Only when it forgets who it's working for…"

Nonsense. It never forgets who it is working for: Microsoft. Sorry, but in Windows >7 you are the target, not the wielder.

[Doctor Syntax]

"And that's [adds] corrosive in a way that telemetry will never be."

It's more corrosive because it's more noticeable. AKA What the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over.

[Anonymous Coward]

I registered just for this.

All his Points are what I've been thinking for more then a decade. He left out logging and OS feedback on issues.

I've been a sysadmin for a couple of decade managing bot h nix and Windows large scale. Yes I know how to get the source ip of an RDP user that logged on in the last hour, it should not take me making a PowerShell script to parse 3 eventlogs to do it. Yes I know that I need to convert this decimal exit code to hex, then feed it into Microsoft error lookup to find out what the issue is. WHY CANT IT PRINT IT in the first place!

Handling Linux issues? I open up the log of the service/application and it says in plain English what was wrong with enough information for me to get either the whole picture, or enough of a sense what was wrong to find the actual issue! Jesus christ it's so bad.

You have txt logs in programdata, system32\logs and some others. Some eventlogs on your disk where there's no actual definitions and you can't make sense of.... It's all over the place and it's all shit

[TonySomerset]

Sense at Last

At last that describes the OS system that I REALLY REALLY need. Leaves me in control and does what I want it to. Something that doesnt break me PC at every update, that doesnt stuff my PC wholesale with feature that constantly irritate and drive me mad.

When can I get it PLEASE!

[flayman]

The suggeation for a hardcore mode, makes sense.

The misspelling and comma in this sentence do not, however. Sorry, I couldn't help it.

[Jakester]

Lost in the Fluff

Important settings are buried in the fluff that gets blown around with every release of Windows and sometimes with security patches. I have used Windows since Windows 3.0. Settings were pretty much laid out logically through about Windows 98. After that, Microsoft started moving things around, sometimes renaming tools and settings. All that fluff confuses even the experts as many of the solutions to problems on the Microsoft website are incomplete or just plain wrong, even when the expert understands the problem, which often they don't and give an solution only remotely related to the issue.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The suggeation for a hardcore mode, makes sense."

...suggestion...

[Diez66]

Every time

Windows works for me and so many apps I use.

Yes, Linux, Ubuntu and currently Mint are great but when I install an application into windows it installs easily in fact I struggle to find one that did not just work. Oh yes, Photoshop 6 on W11, so I went to affinity (now free and I will not pay subscriptions as an occasional user for Photoshop) and that is great

With Linux, even a nice, easy and honestly likable os like Mint it is just not the same experience. Windows daily, Linux on Pi and occasionally when I feel the need to play and have time to get it working.

Too many versions, too many how to's that do not work.

I have used Linux, Unix on and off and on systems at work and for Iot but still as a hobby / personal user it don't hack it. I want to drink beer, sit in the sun, Windows let's me, linux is a fun fight but no beer, *sighs*

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Every time

Photoshop CS6 does work in Windows 11 / Server 2025, but it is best to have a "completely updated and backuped" installation around 'cause patching/updating after installation is wonky. Had to do that recently after switching from Win11 to the now "actual professional" version of Windows...

[Grendel]

Debloating and securing Windows

Fix most of it by:

1. Fresh installation of Windows 11 Pro

2. Upgrade to 25H2

3. Remove fluffy rubbish with Raphire's Win11Debloat (removes unwanted apps, games, telemetry, etc)

4. Harden system using MS Baseline Security Policies with HotCakeX's Harden-System-Security

... and you have an almost sane system.

M

[VK2YJS]

Server desktop sounds like what he wants

The Server 1019 and 2022 with "desktop experience" or whatever they call it does pretty much what any technical user needs.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Server desktop sounds like what he wants

Now I want to try Server 1019.... I recommend Server 2019 is you have hyper-v and dedup in combinations, 'cause for some scenarios I can reproduce can reliably data corruption within the VM (without nested-v). For everyhting else, even if you want to dedup your games-install partition, I recommend 2022 or 2025, depending on which UI your prefer or which game needs the newer version of direct-x extensions. For the stats: My game partition, currently, has currently 1.61 TB data, which actually uses 1.3 TB due to deduplication. Other data structures allow more, some less (unless your users have twenty copies of something on their file server, which is more common than you think).