Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

If you're filing an immigration form - or helping someone who is - the Feds may soon want to look in your eyes, swab your cheek, and scan your face. The US Department of Homeland Security wants to greatly expand biometric data collection for immigration applications, covering immigrants and even some US citizens tied to those …

[IGotOut]

First rule of a dictatorship.

Dehumanise the people you want oppress.

They are not"aliens" they are human beings. Anyone calling them otherwise, is clearly a scumbag the world would be better off without.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: First rule of a dictatorship.

Yeah, next thing you know they'll be mandating for all tourists, temporary agricultural workers, their friends, and family, to be fitted with subdermal ID chip implants and GPS tracking collars, like dogs and chain gang convicts ...

It's yet another campaign of intimidation to forcefully coerce the populace into submission, subservience, and servility (like ICE's Chicago teargasing campaign)!

[Bebu sa Ware]

... "mandating for all tourists" ...

Even at this point I would substitute "any" for "all" or possibly "anyone daft enough to want to be" (tourists.)

Trumpisstan is starting to rank with some of the more abominable "-stans" and North Korea as a tourist destination.

Disneyland to attract foreign visitors might need to relocate to Mexico or even Venezuela. :)

Meanwhile the PRC has offered visa free travel to citizens of another 40+ nations including AU.

[illuminatus]

Re: ... "mandating for all tourists" ...

It's clearly the direction of travel.

And all it makes me do is resolve never to set foot there again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: First rule of a dictatorship.

> Yeah, next thing you know they'll be mandating for all tourists, temporary agricultural workers, their friends, and family, to be fitted with subdermal ID chip implants and GPS tracking collars, like dogs and chain gang convicts ...

And, presumably, yellow stars to sew onto your clothing to aid identification by great US populace who don't have space on their holster belts for a portable DNA checker?

[Anonymous Coward]

@AC - Re: First rule of a dictatorship.

Yellow stars is so old school. Your mobile phone does that instead. Oh, and there's no need to tale it out of your pocket, all for your convenience.

As for DNA, just watch GATTACA and see how the future looks like.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: First rule of a dictatorship.

Agreed but you do need border control. But what's wrong with the photo and passport?

[steviebuk]

Re: First rule of a dictatorship.

I hope South Korea pulls the battery factory out and moves it to Canada if they need. The way orange tango man's brown shirts treated those workers, why would anyone want to setup shop in that backward country now.

[An_Old_Dog]

Gattaca

Various individuals in government and business must have watched the movie, "Gattaca" and thought it illustrated a utopian world, rather than a dystopian one.

[Wang Cores]

Re: Gattaca

The fun thing is the men enforcing their dysgenics on us aren't that capable without our blood sweat and tears.

[LVPC]

Same old story

>> to prove or disprove … biological sex

Trans panic. "We want to know what's in your jeans and what's in your genes."

" None of your damn business " is no longer an option.

Oh for the good old days of "papers, citizen!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Same old story

I’m a little surprised they aren’t also wanting a voice/speech sample; with AI this should provide an indicator as to where you are most likely from. (Yes Indian friends born and brought up in Birmingham do speak with a Brum accent, but many new migrants retain their local speech patterns).

[FrogsAndChips]

Re: Same old story

Ahem: "It's not much more assuring that DHS also wants to collect new forms of biometric data like voice records, which are increasingly easy to spoof with AI".

[Anonymous Coward]

Coming to America

Much of the world says “you must be joking”

[Someone Else]

Re: Coming to America

And the US (in the voice of Stephen Miller) would respond: "Fuck no! Now bend over!"

[Wang Cores]

in five years:

"Palantir administrator caught selling DHS information to Chinese spies pardoned by President Vance; Citizens affected to serve time."

"Muslim handwashing advocate arrested on socialism, child socialism, child terrorism and terrorism pornography charges."

"Guantamano Capacity Crisis: Bipartisan agreement on final solution."

[ajadedcynicaloldfart]

My "goverment" (U.K.)

would kill to do this sort of thing. I suppose they could call it an "addon" to the digital id shite.

Ishy

[Ordinary Donkey]

Re: My "goverment" (U.K.)

Mine too, fortunately they're much too inefficient.

[John Smith 19]

" I suppose they could call it an "addon" to the digital id shite."

Speaking of which The Reg has been very quiet on this subject.

Pop Quiz. Who here is a) In the UK b)Changed their job since 2000 c)Not been asked to show proof-of-right-to-work documentation for their new job?

Exactly.

The people employing asylum seekers and illegal immigrants are themselves illegal, acting as money launderers, sources off vapes and untaxed tobacco to minors etc.

IOW "Digital ID! is as much bu***hit as Blair's ID card scheme proposal, and if not backed by the same data fetishists then their replacements in the same roles in the Civil Service.

[Anonymous Coward]

Scan my 2nd Amendment remedy, Trumpkin

enjoy

[heyrick]

Re: Scan my 2nd Amendment remedy, Trumpkin

Isn't that the one with guns? Probably not wise to pick a fight with trigger happy armed goons...

[Snake]

Re: Scan my 2nd Amendment remedy, Trumpkin

^{I'm saying this as delicately as possible...}

But, if it keeps up, using the reason for the 2nd Amendment's existence will end up coming into effect.

[Scene it all]

Re: Scan my 2nd Amendment remedy, Trumpkin

Actually the 2nd Amendment was put there at the insistence of the southern states to protect their practice of having armed MILITIAS to hunt escaped slaves and put down slave revolts.

[Snake]

Re: Scan my 2nd Amendment remedy, Trumpkin

I believe you are about 60 years too soon. The 2nd Amendment was to allow the population the right to bear arms to fight against invasions or to support popular protests / uprisings against tyrannical government intrusions - you know, that big 'tea thing in Boston misunderstanding' and all that.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: Scan my 2nd Amendment remedy, Trumpkin

"Probably not wise to pick a fight with trigger happy armed goons..."

Which ones the populace, LEO's or in the case of unemployed MAGA red hats joining ICE both.

[harrys]

hmmmm......

I think there are a lot of american normies out there who would welcome this

they only rear their heads during election time

next election will pove if above is true

Then again evolution has probably engineered it so that in any animal species the "majority herd" follow the brightest or the ignorant equally, so as to maintain fitness

[Anonymous Coward]

Never ending

The thirst for data and control just doesn't stop. They can't get enough of either.

[Dan 55]

Re: Never ending

It's the Silicon Valley mind virus.

[MC]

I scrubbed the USA off my travel list 20 years ago due to the fingerprinting - this is another level.

What problem are they trying to solve here?

The answer to that is probably quite scary.

[LucreLout]

I presume you've also scrubbed all of Europe now too?

ETA - I see from the downvote the answer is no. So it wasn't really about the fingerprint then.

[MC]

I haven't downvoted anything. I refuse to cross any border that fingerprints legal travellers. It is 100% about the fingerprinting - If it wasn't for that I would visit the US.

Yes, and I scrubbed Japan / China / Singapore / Thailand etc etc for the same reason

[LucreLout]

Fair enough. I've been to all of those countries too and don't really care that they have my prints.

I assume one of them covertly collected my DNA too while I was visiting. Much less happy about that than the fingerprints.

I'm unlikely to be framed for crime by copied prints, where DNA has far more pernicious use cases.

Ecris is going to be a bigger thing for those carrying convictions than fingerprinting, I suspect. In terms of real world impact anyway, as plenty of folks will become inelligible for a visa when the RoO act is disapplied at the border and convictions they thought spent are not.

Edited to add:

As an aside, north America and Europe are out as destinations.formyou, as are large parts of Asia and parts of Africa. Are you really going on holiday to South America every year? Or Russia?

I understand your stance, and to be fair have some admiration for it, but the practicalities must be incredibly difficult in the modern age. I mean, I'm required by work to visit Asia and North America regularly, so don't really have a choice myself.

[MC]

Russia is off the list for the same reason, Canada is still good. I don't see the fingerprint requirement for the EU EES sticking (this has been mentioned elsewhere in the media) - It just adds too much time to process the numbers (The EU is not the USA, geographically speaking). Cyprus and Turkey still good for sun holidays, which I'm not really in-to.

This list of countries that don't do this is much, much larger than those that do.

I would also google "Brandon Mayfield" and "Shirley McKey" - Both examples of how FP can go very, very, wrong. When you build a massive DB of the innocent, much more likely to happen.

As an aside, my employer accepts my stance. It saves them paying for the yearly flight to the company do in the US every year.

How can you covertly get a DNA sample at passport control???????? Dread to think what happened there.

[LucreLout]

They'd just take dna from the hotel room. Some countries are.... Officious and paranoid in the way only a former communist nation can be.

While I agree the list of places that don't fingerprint is higher than those that do, the EU just added nearly 30 and all the short flights to the list that do.

No Eurostar if you're they sort that doesn't like to fly for whatever reasons.

The shortest flight to a non fingerprint destinations is probably what, 3 hours maybe? Not a huge imposition if you like northern Africa or turkey, but turkey and so northern Cyprus will have to fingerprint if the EU ever let it join, which they will to bring in young workers.

Like I say, genuinely admirable stance, but your world must be getting smaller every year? My employer can't allow for me not to fly due to seniority - they can't just send someone else.

I'll definitely Google the folks you suggest, but if you chuck large enough numbers of people into a pot, it's always bad for someone. There was a guy in Dallas, I think, suffocated in a strippers double D's. Now, personally speaking, when I was younger and attended such establishments, dying would have been the furthest thing from my mind.

Anyway, your take has been genuinely interesting, so thanks for that, and I'll leave the last word to you.

[MC]

Southern Cyprus is not in Schengen, so not an issue. I also mis-spelt "Shirley McKie". I really hope you do look at those cases, if anything they're rather interesting and a big part of why I think FP'ing legal tourists is a step too far. No large mega-DBs involved for the McKie case. And as I said, I can see the EU dropping the FP requirement pdq.

If you have to give your prints for work (SC/Visa etc), then I agree what difference does it make. But it's the principle, the US government admits that facial provides all the biometric identity assurance they need for border control, but they continue to FP for "law enforcement purposes". And frankly I suspect the EU is just waving it's willy in retaliation for the US system - it's petty enough. In this country you have to be arrested (*and* charged) for the police to retain FP.

If I am not a criminal, if I've done nothing wrong, why should my privacy be invaded? We could DNA profile all children at birth incase of future criminality, great for law enforcement, but is that a society I would want to live in? Nope.

But to address your question about my world getting smaller - I will not cross a border that FP's me. End of. That does not preclude me taking advantage of any legal workarounds ;)

If only I could find one for the US - There just isn't one. Unless I somehow become a diplomat, NATO or a Canadian citizen (flying pigs ahoy on all of those).

Death by huge tits suffocation? If you gonna go....that's the way :)

And thanks for engaging sincerely...appreciated :)

[Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck]

Simple solution. Under no circumstances should you travel to or through the Fascist States of America...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another reason not to travel to the USA

The total lack of data protection in the US is a massive issue for everyone.

Flock cameras are proving this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a14lplBg2Y

[Ryan D]

1984

No longer fiction.

[LucreLout]

Hate away, but I love visiting America. Always found the people to be generally wonderful. So much to see and do too. I don't care much which party is in power there, as their Democrats would be by far and away our most right wing party in history anyway.

Taking my DNA as a tourist might be a stretch too far, certainly its not a no-brainer to visit anymore if they brought that in. I might, might, feel different about that is they'd registered the DNA of the domestic populace first though. Otherwise I'd struggle to see a plausible benefit

[MC]

But being ten printed and placed on the FBI database is A-OK?

[LucreLout]

Same as visiting Europe. Just the price of entry.

[MC]

If your OK with being treating like a criminal for seeking legal entry then fine.

But those hitting the EU southern border in dinghies pay no such price, nor do those crossing the US southern border in the Biden era when he instructed southern states to remove their barriers......

[LucreLout]

Sure, but due to having a career and needing a clean criminal record to keep it, I only migrate legally. No dinghy, no Rio Grande.

I'm terms of what I want, wants got nothing to do with it. My career necessitates travel to the EU, Asia, and America. Once they have my prints for business they may as well get another copy for leisure.

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess no one read the article and / or knows anything about US immigration

It's for immigrant visas. Or change of immigrant status.

You know, the ones you always had to have a medical, a chest x-ray, and often a whole bunch of disease tests. Which you had to pass before you got your status changed. In the really old days around 20% of those arriving at Ellis Island were sent back to Europe because the failed to pass a medical test. The doctor did not like the way you looked, next boat back to Europe.

Nothing new.

The reason for the DNA stuff is for those who are claiming "family reunification" visas, which is the majority, actually are family when the case looks suspect. Or in the case of the member of Congress for the 5th District of MN that her husband is not her brother. Its also used to tell if the "uncle" or "aunty" claiming to be related to some minor is actually who they claim to be. Seems around 20K temporary status minors "disappeared" after 2021. After being handed over to supposed relatives.

So just the usual b*llocks really. The story as written. And the predicable reactions.

Want to talk about the UK's police DNA database. Almost 10% of the UK population is in it. And often an arrest for the most trivial reasons even in mistake will get you added to the database. With no legal recourse in most cases. There's laws against that in the US. Rigorously enforced.

[LucreLout]

Re: Guess no one read the article and / or knows anything about US immigration

I'm in the police DNA database, I think.

Heavily concussed after an assault and robbery, I didn't tick the use my DNA only for this case box. Genuinely can't say it's caused me a problem yet, but then I've always been able to resist a bit of the old ultraviolence and rape.

I possibly should look into the possibility of being removed before this government gets any more authoritarian, but it's not at the top of the to do list yet, and for all I know may not now be truly possible. Logical Vs physical deletes for example.

[FuzzyTheBear]

Avoid them

Go anywhere but the USA. They have nothing worth visiting and their Gestapo methods should make sure noone wants to go willingly. Plenty nice countries to visit . Even your own.

[tiggity]

Re: Avoid them

@FuzzyTheBear

People are fine to choose not to visit the US & that choice is fine.

But to say "They have nothing worth visiting" is inaccurate - plenty of great scenery & wildlife (main focus of my holidays anywhere but also many great museums, galleries, historic sites, interesting buildings etc. , etc.)