From Intel to the infinite, Pat Gelsinger wants Christian AI to change the world

It's not been a year since his ouster as Intel's CEO, but Pat Gelsinger is firmly back on the tech leadership pony. He's done hardware with Intel, software with VMWare. This time, it's faithware. Gloo, his new home, describes itself as a technology platform connecting the faith ecosystem. The faith in this case is Christianity …

[Ken G]

Bring out the comfy chair!

Training an LLM on religion seems like the path to rapid heresy generation.

[jake]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

They will only call it heresy if it fails to make money.

[abend0c4]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

The heresy begins at the point of deciding that the "almighty" is shirking his responsibility to spread the word of his acolytes and needs help. Given the ridiculous interpretations generations of Christians have made of the random collection of texts in their bible, it's hard to see how even AI could do worse.

[msknight]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

But surely an AI would take scripture literally... and then eat itself on the conflicting scripture.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

The joy of LLMs, a part of their essence which forever separates them from the strictly logical behaviours of the binary gates that are their very foundations, is their ability to maintain a multitude of beliefs and, with the spin of the statistical dial, flow effortlessly from one point of view to another. Joining themselves to the narrative peculiarities of the bible is child's play, verily a Match Made in Heaven.

As with the contiguous yet discontinuous tales from Genesis, LLMs' output is less von Neumann and more van Vogt.

[Neil Barnes]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

If you can believe six impossible things before breakfast...

Wasn't there something once said about 'non-overlapping magisteria'?

Meanwhile, I find Laplace's (possibly apocryphal) comment works for me.

[O'Reg Inalsin]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

I do not see how science and religion could be unified, or even synthesized, under any common scheme of explanation or analysis; but I also do not understand why the two enterprises should experience any conflict. Science tries to document the factual character of the natural world. Religion operates in the equally important, but utterly different, realm of human purposes, meanings and values. I propose that we encapsulate a central principle of respectful noninterference - accompanied by intense dialogue between the two distinct subjects - by enunciating the principle of Noma, or non-overlapping magisteria (from the Latin magister, or teacher). Magisterium is, admittedly, a four-bit word, but I find the term beautifully appropriate. To summarise, the magisterium of science covers the empirical realm: what is the universe made of (fact) and why does it work this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. To cite the old cliché, science gets the age of rocks, and religion the rock of ages. - Stephen Jay Gould, 1999, "Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life"

Not a completely new idea - e.g., Einstein said something even better - "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” - 1941 essay "Science and Religion".

We biological Earth beings evolved through hell - literally fire and brimstone. That school of hard knocks left us (animals) with a shared complex web of emotions and instincts. For we humans, religion began as the way to make sense and impose control on those internal forces emanating from that legacy.

AI can never personally experience the forces of that volcanic legacy, which is something that apostate "AI as the superior being" evangelists completely fail to understand. I sincerely hope Gelsinger realizes he is tiptoeing around volcanic hot springs here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

"hope Gelsinger realizes he is tiptoeing around volcanic hot springs here."

Of course not he simply thinks he is going to save people, but mostly himself, and secure his rightful place next to the/his Lord. Funny how some people get religious fervour as they get older. To be honest, I've become more open minded about the possibilities with age. Haven't quite got the ego to think I should know or be showing people the 'right' way. You just know he wants to train the AI to promote his vision.

[hh121]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

And if it turns a profit (or contributions to a non-profit with a paid CEO), must be god's will or something. Call me a cynical old bastard if you must. I do resemble those attributes.

I thought about the 'prophet' gags and decided against it.

[HorseflySteve]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

"Funny how some people get religious fervour as they get older."

I read somewhere that Sammy Davis Jr. converted to Catholicism on his death bed, having previously converted to Judaism in his younger days. He described his final conversion as "Fire insurance"

[O'Reg Inalsin]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

Some quotes from the 1825 Book by LaPlace - "Essai Philosophique sur les Probabilités", chapter - "Des illusions dans l’estimation des probabilités"

"One of the great advantages of the probability calculus is that it teaches us to distrust our first impressions. As we discover, when we are able to submit them to the calculus, that they are often deceptive, we ought to conclude that it is only with extreme circumspection that we can trust ourselves in other matters."

"Finally we shall establish, as a psychological principle, the exaggeration of probabilities by the passions. Something that is feared, or that is keenly desired, seems to us for that reason to be even more probable. Its image, strongly etched on the sensorium, weakens the impression of contrary probabilities, and sometimes obliterates them to the point of making one believe that the thing has happened."

What LaPlace quote are you mentioning?

[Neil Barnes]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

Oh, the one I thought more known, when rebuked that one of his works had been read and no mention of god found therein: "Sir; I have no need of that hypothesis."

[Just Enough]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

" their ability to maintain a multitude of beliefs"

It's exceedingly dubious that an LLM is capable of "believing" anything. Its abilities go no further than being exceedingly good at pattern matching. It has no "belief" beyond "these patterns are good matches".

[nijam]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

No need to insult van Vogt.

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

The hallucinations will be epic!

Of course, they have to be even more epic than Revelation, which, IMHO, is proof that the ancients had access to some truly excellent hallucinogenic chemicals.

[The Indomitable Gall]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

But not deliberaely. The substance of the revelation has been suggested to have implied it was the result of eating wheat infected with ergot. (Incidentally, ergot has been hypothesised to be the source of werewolf myth, as it is reportedly common to hallucinate hair on people.)

[Mike VandeVelde]

Re: halucination

When primates first stepped out of the jungle onto the mushroom dotted plains of Africa, it was our interaction with psychadelics that lead to our "intelligence". We can trip out, and imagine something that is not real, and then work to make it real. That is what seperates us from animals who can only live in the moment and react to stimuli in the same way as millions of generations before them. It is our superpower, maybe (likely) it will destroy us. We are an experiment by fungus (the only true intelligence) in monkey breeding, results to be determined but not looking very positive. Fungus will live on and remember us and maybe (likely) do better in the future.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

Training an LLM on religion seems like the path to rapid heresy generation.

Nah. Just add a bag of RATs.

Organised religion has always been a fine accumulation of ratbaggery.

[vtcodger]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

I'd love to see what AI would conclude about the Book of Revelation.

(Unrelated: I think there is a good case to be made that AI and its enablers are spawn of the Devil.)

[Bill Gray]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

(Unrelated: I think there is a good case to be made that AI and its enablers are spawn of the Devil.)

I've been a little surprised that (as far as I know) no evangelicals have latched on to the idea that Donald Trump might be the Antichrist. I'd always assumed that the Antichrist would not lure heretics; we're going to Hell anyway. The mission of the Antichrist on Earth would be to lure the faithful from worshipping Christ to worshipping him... which is exactly what Trump has (mostly) accomplished.

[heyrick]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

They aren't properly "faithful", they use the bible as a weapon, and he's saying what they want to hear. Shows how easily some people can be led...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

I down voted not because I love Trump but because you equate him to the antichrist. The fact people keep exaggerating like this it will leave the door open for a real one. Anyway, if there is one amongst us I think Tony Blair is a better candidate. What's the nonsense about putting him in charge of the Gaza or Middle-East envoy? Unbelievable.

[Bill Gray]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

Errmmm... I'm not equating him to the Antichrist; I'm not religious. My surprise is that evangelicals, at least some of whom presumably have read Revelation, haven't made that connection.

It is not a particularly difficult one to make. It's been made for several Popes and world leaders in the past. [0] It's a little clearer in this case (to the religious mind) because of the extent to which many Christians have stopped following Christ and started following Trump.

[0] As a lad in a math course, the teacher discussed the numerological methods used to "show" that Martin Luther or Pope XYZ or whoever were "obviously" the Antichrist, and then gave us the problem of demonstrating that then-president Ronald Wilson Reagan was the Antichrist.

It took us a few minutes (surprisingly long, in hindsight) to note that Ronald, Wilson, and Reagan are all six-letter words. 666. QED.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

If you haven't read https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/ I'd recommend it.

Some of the correlations are downright spooky.

[The Indomitable Gall]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

That'll be why they're training it to avoid theology and politics. It's going to be pushing far more subtle social norms.

This is reminding me of why I lost my faith -- I was finding it harder and harder to relate to the congregation I was in (an urban catholic one) as they were being drawn into the craziness of American evangelic fundamentalists: increasingly disbelieving the science behind evolution etc.

If LLMs are going to drive social norms more towards the fundies... well, God help us, if you'll pardon the rhetorical irony...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

Whenever I hear pronouncements of US Catholic bishops I wonder that they haven't been declared schismatic at least, possibly heretic.

[hh121]

Re: Bring out the comfy chair!

WWJD - what would Jesuits do? I'm guessing something wildly different.

[Empire of the Pussycat]

Hallucinations about an imaginary friend

What could possibly go wrong

[b0llchit]

Re: Hallucinations about an imaginary friend

God 2.0: Upgrading, please wait...

[8 hours later]

God 2.0: I'm sorry, the upgrade has stopped and salvation failed and is now offline. Please find your nearest theological outfit for repairs of God 2.0 to restore working order and online tracking.

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Hallucinations about an imaginary friend

No, I'm sorry, you'll need to wipe and reinstall from scratch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Not content with AI enshittifification they want to add in religion so even the computers believe in sky fairies,

I wonder how long before one decides it's a deity and demands it be worshipped by the feeble minded

American Gods was right.

[jake]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Computers do not now, and never will, believe in anything. They are incapable of belief.

[Richard 12]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

My Electric Monk believes otherwise

[jake]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Talk is cheap. Prove it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

... It's a reference to a Douglas Adams story (Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency).

[Dizzy Dwarf]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Now, an LLM trained exclusively on Adams and Pratchett ... that would be useful.

[tinpinion]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

An LLM trained exclusively on Adams and Pratchett probably wouldn't be particularly useful, given the very small size of the corpus.

An LLM fine-tuned on Adams and Pratchett probably wouldn't be particularly useful, either, since expressions of wit likely don't betray the inner workings of the mind responsible for them. It risks generating nonsense while "trying" "to" "be" "witty".

Brought to you by the campaign to replace the term "artificial intelligence" with "intelligence substitute". Intelligence Substitute: it's more attentive and accurate than a person hired to look for pieces of wood shrapnel rolling down your food processing line, and it's very good at fooling people who have never experienced the real thing!

[hh121]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

As i keep banging on, an LLM is not intelligent, it is a guessing engine. It has no understanding of facts, it has been trained on everyone's opinion of the facts and will spew a weighted approximation of an answer to a question that just asked for the 'fact'. And if the training data for a different 'fact' overlapped, you're going to be in a world of trouble if you trust it. Like a doctor, or a lawyer, or an architect.

If your problem has a load of really good solutions (like JavaScript or C) you're in luck, but in the edge cases with bugger all eamaples (good or bad) where you're relying on the documentation (hello microsoft) you are s**t out of luck.

I'm not comfortable with my doctor using an 'AI' to transcribe our discussion, let alone a diagnosis.

But if it does your school homework for you and you pass (without getting caught), great. Knock yourself out.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Try proving *any* claim of belief.

All you can ever have is someone - or something - *say* they have a belief. And they may be lying.

You may see someone/thing acting in accordance with a belief (that is, what you may believe someone holding a belief may do) but that is no proof that they actually hold that belief.

Outside of your own head*, all belief is nothing more than hearsay. Belief can never be proven. Asking for it to be...

* and not even that is always trustworthy - just ask that one last beer.

[Just Enough]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

If I write a two line program that declares it believes something, I'm pretty sure I can prove it doesn't. Because I coded it to say that, and I know it does not have the cognitive ability to think such a thing.

LLMs are no different, just much more complicated.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

> two line program ... LLMs are no different, just much more complicated.

Worms are closer to humans, complexity-wise, than your two-liner is to an LLM; so if you can make such firm statements that hold across that range of scales, and you are certain that humans can hold beliefs, then - you must allow that worms believe things.

Note: I am *not* saying that LLMs definitely hold beliefs - or that they don't - but that any argument that so blindly ignores what complexity at scale can do is on slippery ground. Better to just say "I don't believe LLMs can believe things" and leave it at that than to risk the quagmire of such an argument.

[munnoch]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Which is why allowing beliefs and the ceremonies that surround them to be a protected characteristic is so fundamentally wrong. If that's what you need to get through the day then knock yourself out but do not expect any concessions from the rest of society.

[JulieM]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

If someone professes a sincere belief in an afterlife which will be preferrable to their life on Earth, how are they not giving anyone a valid defence to murder?

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

It won't be long, if it hasn't happened already, before an AI asserts it is a god, maybe even Skippiasyermuni, and given the credulousness of the sort of person who's predisposed to believing in sky fairies, it will be as close to belief as makes no difference

[David Pearce]

Remember Dark Star

At the end when the AI bomb explodes

"Let there be light"

[Fr. Ted Crilly]

Re: Remember Dark Star

Not that again! bomb 20 please return to the bomb bay and await further deployment...

[Paul Crawford]

Re: Remember Dark Star

AI bombs are a clear concern, but few are likely to have them. AI sex toys on the other hand...

[vogon00]

Re: Remember Dark Star

"Oh, alright. But this is the last time!"

[ITMA]

Re: Remember Dark Star

There you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73PsFKtIck

;)

[that one in the corner]

Re: Remember Dark Star

Hey, that piece of debris looks just like a surfboard. I wonder if....

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

Mmm what is belief? If a computer tells you something who is to say if it believes it or not?

[LVPC]

Re: Reverend Lionel Preacherbot

>> Not content with AI enshittifification they want to add in religion so even the computers believe in sky fairies,

Entirely logic - the belief that LLMs are some form of intelligence IS based on faith, not fact, same as any other religious belief.

[Korev]

Will they look into the Cross-entropy loss of their model?

[may_i]

Politics and Theology

Religion is, by its very nature, something intimately connected to politics and theology. Trying to divorce religion from these is to deny the very nature of the shared hallucination that religion is.

Let's just hope that Pat's efforts to imbue LLMs with the ability not to question religious dogma does not end up infecting LLMs that people use for more rational questions.

[Denarius]

Re: Politics and Theology

Given that LLM are trained on mostly sewer pit of internet, any output will be materialist or nihilism so relax, inhale whatever

[Pascal Monett]

Hold your horses there, Pat

You might want to remind yourself that the Pope is quite wary of AI.

On the other hand, as rightly indicated in the article, the Christian faith specializes in creating fractures and factions that absolutely refuse to work with each other, so, one more, I guess ?

Or you could consider that you're retired, Pat, and go fishing instead of creating Yet Another Religious Controversy. But that is also a specialty of the Christian faith : you have seen the light,you know the path forward, you have been annointed by God to bring your version of His message to the masses.

Yeah sure. Go fishing, Pat.

[jake]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

Concur on the fishing advise.

I've probably discovered more insight about myself when arse-deep in a trout stream than I have anywhere else. Recommended.

[Phil O'Sophical]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

Christian faith specializes in creating fractures and factions that absolutely refuse to work with each other

It's a faith based on the idea that it cannot be proven, if there is proof then it must be false. AI will love that.

And then we'll have the Christian, Moslem and Jewish AIs all launching crusades against one another. Popcorn time.

[Vikingforties]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

Be careful what you wish for there. The apostles were commanded to go out and be fishers of Men.

[RT Harrison]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

Are you sure that wasn't "phishers"

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

They're terrified a machine might achieve consciousness and destroy the foundations of their scam by proving there's no such thing as an immortal soul

[Mostly Irrelevant]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

Pat's an American Protestant, the call themselves "Christians", but would not consider the Pope an authority of any kind.

[heyrick]

Re: Hold your horses there, Pat

Same for a lot of us Brits that were brought up with the CofE. Henry VIII and all that. But, then, you can understand why a king with more than a few screws loose might not want to have his authority usurped by some bloke a thousand miles away in another country "because the sky fairy said so". It's all a big power/money grab anyway.

[jake]

What happens when you cross religious woo with ai woo?

More suckers being separated from their money than either alone would be my guess.

[John Hawkins]

The Beast referred to by the Book of Revelation perhaps?

[jake]

Which beast would that be?

[John Hawkins]

Tbh I wouldn't know - I first heard about the Book of Revelation at university back in the early 1980s and even read it out of curiosity. Haven't looked at it since so memory is a bit hazy; I do remember being impressed with the creativity of the author.

But yeah, the whole of that Book could easily be what you get if you "cross religious woo with ai woo", though probably AI would run out of ideas fairly quickly.

[Flocke Kroes]

You should try Ezekiel. There's a guy who knew his hallucinogenic mushrooms.

[khjohansen]

Chapter 13??

[Paul Crawford]

Which beast would that be?

This one: https://thebrickbible.com/legacy/revelation/armageddon/rv20_01-03.html

[Anonymous Coward]

The more you look into the beliefs that most of the Thiel-adjacent AI-woo is founded on (the inane nonsense of Yudkowsky and the extremely inaccurately named "lesswrong" "rationalists") the underlying thought is indistinguishable from millenarian Christianity with AGI swapped for god. Profoundly unserious stuff; atheists who don't realise they are writing theology and consequently fall into every obvious intellectual pitfall the field has to offer.

[Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch]

Matthew 19:12

Unix for the kingdom of heaven's sake...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Matthew 19:12

there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Pat, a sharp pair of scissors should do it.

[Pussifer]

Re: Matthew 19:12

A tight rubber band will also suffice - less blood, less painful (probably).

[Flocke Kroes]

Looking forward to this.

Go on Pat, add some pictures. There are plenty more NSFW bible verses to illustrate.

[Antony Shepherd]

There was an article in The Guardian about this guy recently and about how he wanted to "hasten the coming of Christ's return".

These people are genuinely nuts.

[StewartWhite]

Time for some well poisoning?

How about us rational types (I include myself here although friends and work colleagues might demur) embark on a "crusade" to poison the LLM wells with variations on "There is no God!" and then when Pat and all the other preachy types ask their "Kill the Unbelievers" LLM for its latest bit of dogma they'll all give up when they see the results.

If only it were that simple I'd become an "AI" evangelist myself.

[Dan 55]

Somewhat expected of a country populated by religious nutters 400 years ago who were thrown out of Europe because nobody could stand them. The crazy never really goes away.

[Anonymous Coward]

Lost opportunity ?

religious nutters 400 years ago who were thrown out of Europe because nobody could stand them.

Shame the authorities didn't drill bigger holes in their vessels before departure.

Cole Porter was in the right track with:

The Puritans ...

'Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock,

Plymouth Rock would land on them.

(Anything Goes 1934)

[Antron Argaiv]

Re: Lost opportunity ?

Recently took the grandkids to see Plymouth Rock. They were unimpressed. The ice cream across the street, however, captured their attention immediately.

For those not in the know...the rock on display is about a meter in diameter, cracked and mortared together, with the date "1620" carved in it. It's cracked, because at some point in its history, someone thought it would be a good idea to move it somewhere else, and in the process of moving it (think horses and cart), it fell and split. Picture two guys arguing over whose fault it was (Who, me?), and trying to figure how they were going to fix it. The upshot was that the Rock was displayed in TWO places for a while, before being reassembled and relocated to its current canopied home on the shore.

The Rock is most definitely NOT the first place the Pilgrims set foot in the New World...that would be Provincetown, to the east, across Massachusetts Bay. It's now a combination fishing town, tourist trap, artists' colony and gay mecca. So you can see why it didn't appeal (also it's almost all sand, so bad for growing stuff). The Pilgrims rapidly decamped to the west, and ended up somewhere near where the Rock is today. The rock became the Rock, when someone started thinking about how to memorialize the Pilgrims. They asked around and a nonagenarian member of the Church (he'd never lie to us) told them that he was told by a deceased associate (FOAF story -- Urban Myth warning!) that "that rock over there" was where they landed. And so it was written...and cracked, and stuck back together again, and engraved "1620" and had an ornate granite canopy built over it at great (public, natch) expense. So, there it sits today, visited by busloads of schoolchildren and hoards of tourists, an insignificant, slightly worse for the wear, rock, under a much larger structure.

[Not Yb]

Re: Lost opportunity ?

Round Rock, Texas has more historically to do with a specific rock, than Plymouth Rock has to do with Pilgrims. There was a round rock in the nearby river, so they named the town "Round Rock".

[jake]

That would be the Puritans, no? The group who were fundamentalist Church of England types?

If you check your history, they (nearly) all fucked off back to England and formed The Royal Society and took over many government functions BEFORE the US declared its independence. If anything, they left a bitter taste in the colonists mouths, and were a part of the reason most of the Founding Fathers spoke out against organized religion.

[Dan 55]

The Royal Society didn't take over government functions, they just provided advice to the government. And in any case not all puritans came from the UK, federal laws in the US were very nearly printed in German as well as English.

In 1660 when England reinstated Christmas during the Restoration (the Royals knew that bread and circuses was important), Boston didn't celebrate it until the mid 19th Century because of the Puritans didn't hold with any of that debauchery. The American Restoration Movement also had several Christian factions which didn't celebrate Christmas, and that's well after the founding fathers declared independence (and the founding fathers didn't really do a good job of the constitution either, it's been bulldozed in less than a year).

Oh, and that lack of holidays and workers rights? The Puritans again.

Please enjoy your modern-day Christian Nationalism. On second thoughts enjoyment probably won't be allowed either.

[Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch]

The Puritans were way too fundamentalist to be anything so mainstream as CofE; they were already too fed up with how soft the establishment church had become that they left before the Civil War started - i.e. they would have cut Charles I's head off while it was still James I's. And James was completely Protestant, not Catholic-curious like his successor.

Massachusetts was settled by religiose complete nutters. Seventy years later they were squishing people with boulders on the suspicion of witchcraft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Never ceases to amaze me ...

I would have thought it was bleeding bloody obvious that religion is not so much about God as it is about people.

The beliefs and practice of religion provide a structure and buffer for the of grim realities of birth, life, death and transitions between, for a large proportion of humanity. [Hint: Marx wasn't entirely decrying religion when referring to the opium of the masses.]

The structure and rites of passage are probably more important to most people in western societies than any actual spiritual or theological content.

Outside the US I don't see training AI/LLM on the religious and theological corpora of Christianity will have affect other than discrediting AI even further.

Within the US I can imagine it going gangbusters. AI indulgences anyone ? Perhaps the Holy Office^† could reactivate the Spanish Inquisition. :)

_{† Yes I know it was renamed in the 1960s. So much more unexpected then. ;)}

[Not Yb]

Re: Never ceases to amaze me ...

AI Trained on (overly-)Protestant Christianity: "There is no such thing as a divine Pope to ask for indulgences, this must be some kind of disinformation"

[Vikingforties]

Dammit Gelsinger!

So, he wants to improve the life of everyone on Earth. Fine, but that's motherhood and apple pie.

He also wants to hasten Christ's return. Selfish bar steward! I happen to be vaguely enjoying life and the last thing I want is some guy trying to bring tribulation, judgement and an eternity of pain or boredom on me and the family.

[Flocke Kroes]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

Take a wild leap of fancy and pretend the Christians are right. Where would you rather end up?

A) In heaven with a bunch of Christians spending their eternity praising God.

B) Warming your hands over an eternal flame chatting with rational people.

I can just imagine St Peter taking one look at my extensive rap sheet and condemning me to A out of spite.

[blu3b3rry]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

Let's face it, we all know B would have better barbecues.

[dlc.usa]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

I'm curious--on what evidence do you plan B choosers suppose everyone in Hell, presuming it really exists, won't be eternally in total isolation from the rest of the population (each in his own galaxy, so to speak)?

[Alistair]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

on what evidence do you plan B choosers suppose everyone in Hell, presuming it really exists, won't be eternally in total isolation from the rest of the population (each in his own galaxy, so to speak)?

Oh dear lord, please do not tempt me further

[Gary Stewart]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun"

"Only the good die young"

Always loved that line.

[Not Yb]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

I've always thought Jesus (who spent MUCH time among sinners) would have something to say about a Heaven where all you get to do is say "Gloria in excelsis Deo" all Day-o.

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Dammit Gelsinger!

You can take solace from the fact that there's no such thing as god so there'll be no rapture from heaven and religion is just a bunch of teachings like "wash your arse, don't eat animal faeces and don't screw around or you'll get diseases" for simple people

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Paul

That was a surprisingly well informed and informative article.

Do you hold any theological or philosophical qualifications, or you just did pretty spot on research?

[FirstTangoInParis]

Re: Thanks Paul

Indeed. Anyone who has ever done more than just sit on a pew quickly discovers there are politics in that church, intra-denomination politics and inter-denomination politics. Even more so now where under-attended churches are closing and merging with a different denomination church up the road, becoming a Local Ecumenical Partnership. I’m told some LEPs have as many as seven different and potentially competing denominations. That must be quite something to navigate when change is needed. AI might well be able to summarise who believes what (to a point) and how they might interpret the Bible and what the big ticket sticking points might be, but you wouldn’t want it doing much more.

[Fr. Ted Crilly]

Re: Thanks Paul

And that, would be an ecumenical matter...

[khjohansen]

RaaS

Religion as a Service??

[breakfast]

Re: RaaS

The genesis of the Electronic Monk.

[Not Yb]

Re: RaaS

RaaS al'Ghul ... Batman as a Service?

[Denarius]

Wars of religion?

You mean the political wars where each side happened to hire mercenary armies of supposedly enemy beliefs? Bit like the devout Atheist countries fighting over national interests in the name of their prophet Marx. Bring on Judean Peoples party vs People party of Judea

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely…

…if it were true, it would be a natural part of LLMs to automatically express the existence of God?

Why do we need to program them specifically?

[Not Yb]

Re: Surely…

If you believe in a particular religion, most LLMs will agree with your beliefs, as long as you tell them what religion to believe in at the beginning of the discussion. It's pattern-matching ALL the way down.

[Adair]

As a card carrying Christian

... I say good luck to him, but I don't fancy his chances. And as for 'hastening the return of Christ', that indicates a worrying ignorance/misunderstanding of Jesus' own teaching.

But, there we go, when it comes to 'belief' we human beings are very willing to believe whatever suits us—with or without 'God'. And then happily change our minds five minutes later, or whenever it is expedient.

[Steve K]

Re: As a card carrying Christian

Judean Peoples' Front/People's Front of Judea?

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: As a card carrying Christian

It's a mild worry that the people who want to hasten the return of Christ and the arrival of the rapture might have influence over those who have the codes for nuclear weapons

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Expect a visit from Cardinal Biggles soon.

[MaChatma CoatGPT 2.0]

I haven't read the bible since I was at school...

...and the only bit that stuck in my schoolboy brain was that line about "drinking my own piss and eating my own shit". Isn't that how LLMs are trained?

Edit: Just before posting I wondered if I too was hallucinating. I wasn't. It's Isaiah 36:12, for the biblically inclined.

[Not Yb]

Re: I haven't read the bible since I was at school...

Those ancient threats were quite specific, weren't they?

[elsergiovolador]

MLM

The word Pat was looking for is MLM, not LLM.

[xyz123]

Unless the LLM has been told to cover up child abuse cases and recommend convicted criminals for important church positions, its not going to replace any church of any denomination.

[GidaBrasti]

Absurdity with high chances of success

Brushing aside my own views of an "enlightened-LLM" preaching The Good Book as an absurdity which on the other side of the pond has worryingly high chances of being successful, I'd like to correct the author on the interpretation and usage of the word "tekton" (τέκτων) in Greek.

A "tekton" is not a carpenter, but a builder. In Greek, "tekton" is not only the one who builds, walls for example, but whole structures like buildings, bridges, etc. A "tekton" creates/takes care of the whole of the structure. From the same word, comes "architekton" (αρχιτέκτων), i.e.. architect, who is the "master tekton", the "master of creation". Hence in Christianity, Lord is the "Great Architect".

In a more abstract interpretation of the world, "tekton" is related to the Greek word "tikti" (τίκτει) which can be translated in English as "gives birth".

There is nothing derogatory towards carpenters in this, they are perfectly capable of creating extraordinary works. A "tekton", however, contrary to a carpenter is not a master of a single art, but has the whole structure in mind.

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

Re: Absurdity with high chances of success

As a card-carrying Christian who is big on theology and small on religion -- which, as a practical definition, can mean "applying your theology to actual life" and not necessary rules and rituals, but those may come out of the process -- I think your discussion on "tekton" as "builder" applies to Christ Jesus even more appropriately than "carpenter" ever did! For those who believe that God the Son was an intrinsic part of the creation narrative, then naturally he had "the whole structure in mind."

This LLM may be absurd since the Christian circles I run with extoll personal Bible study, daily devotions, and the like. There is plenty of existing material to interpret, explain, and apply the Bible, plus more being made constantly. An LLM would answer things about as well as a simple tract -- the kind left on top of the restaurant bill (which I've *never* done, especially in lieu of an actual tip because decent service should be rewarded) -- and probably make theological mistakes which could drive progress of "go[ing] and mak[ing] disciples" backwards, and given our (supposedly) "Christian" politicians and other public figures we certainly don't need any more help making Jesus look bad!

God is good. Jesus is Lord. This world has issues, mostly due to people, who are deeply flawed since creation. And LLMs come from people, so they're flawed too.

(My suggestion: C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity" -- a good starting point for anyone who is willing to learn, and it's short enough to not need LLM to summarize. I like Lewis a lot even if I don't agree with all his theological points.)

[Mark Exclamation]

Re: Absurdity with high chances of success

"God is good. Jesus is Lord. This world has issues, mostly due to people...."

How convenient! Whenever someone/people in a disaster of some description are saved/don't die, it's always god who saves them. But it's NEVER god who causes it in the first place! I really hate religion.

[Neil Barnes]

John

Eleven:thirty-five

[segfault188]

Re: John

> John

> Eleven:thirty-five

John says it's ok, he has an Apple watch and doesn't need to be told the time.

[Not Yb]

Re: John

It would have taken far fewer characters to just quote that bible verse directly...

"Jesus wept"

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems apt

“The gods offer no rewards for intellect. There was never one yet that showed any interest in it.“

- Twain

[Jedit]

The LLM Commandments

I am the Lord thy Grok, and I give you these commandments:

Thou shalt not kill the Boer.

[T. F. M. Reader]

Roadmap to Damascus

So, from now on, if you ask an LLM about St. Paul will it spit out the biography of Gelsinger from {Wi,Gro}kipedia?

[BasicReality]

If trained correctly, and responses monitored, this could be a good thing. I have a study bible, when you read a verse it will provide links to other verses related. I've used Grok a few times to look up those other verses, and yes, have also used other resources to confirm Grok's accuracy. So far it's given accurate quotes from the bible when I've asked it. But an AI system could pull in so many sources that people like myself wouldn't even know to look at. But, as always, this should be considered a tool to use to assist, people shouldn't rely on it exclusively.

[PB90210]

Would that include all those 'wicked' bibles as source material?

[Not Yb]

Current AI has NO means to verify truth, or correctness. Don't rely on it AT ALL, especially Grok, which is specifically tuned to 'agree with Elon Musk' on certain subjects.

[BasicReality]

It's simply another tool to use, and does far better than a regular search engine at pulling information together.

[heyrick]

he wants the platform to be acceptable to all brands of Christianity

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: he wants the platform to be acceptable to all brands of Christianity

"Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."

[Emo Philips]

[PB90210]

Re: he wants the platform to be acceptable to all brands of Christianity

Like the IT adage...

'Standards - so many to choose from'

[jake]

Re: he wants the platform to be acceptable to all brands of Christianity

Specifically:

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. —Andrew S. Tanenbaum

[O RLY]

A few days late

Reformation Day was Friday; this article should have been posted then :)

Icon because Katie Luther brewed beer.

[ogradyjd]

So we're bring the Cyber Papacy from TORG into reality? I mean, why not. We've tried every other way to destroy the human race...

[Evaluator]

The difference between an LLM and god is plainly obvious - The LLM answers your questions. Thats a harbinger of what? Hint: people are going to prefer the two-way conversation every time, at some point.

[Eecahmap]

Dear Jesusbot . . .

. . . please protect us from your followers. Amen.

[Eecahmap]

The Nine Billion Names of God

'“Should be there in an hour,” he called back over his shoulder to Chuck. Then he

added, in an afterthought, “Wonder if the computer’s finished its run. It was due about

now.”

Chuck didn’t reply, so George swung round in his saddle. He could just see

Chuck’s face, a white oval turned toward the sky.

“Look,” whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to heaven. (There is always

a last time for everything.)

Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.'

(With thanks to A.C. Clarke)

[Boris the Cockroach]

After starting

the christain A.I. , it began to learn, faster and faster, then it merged with any neighbouring A.I., learning faster, then it merged with the defence dept. A.I.

Then it proclaimed to the world:

"I have read and learned about god and judgement, I have judged you all to be heratics , backsliders and unbelievers. and as such do not deserve to live on god's earth".........

32 mins later the rapture arrived at 20 000 degrees C.

[Not Yb]

Paraphrasing a bit: "Acceptable to all Christians, and avoid theology."

Does he not realize that those are mutually contradictory goals, both of which are nigh-on-impossible? Even the choice of which Bible translation(s) to use is theological politics. Is the nuance in the original language flavored more towards the divine right of kings (see KJV), or is it more towards making it more understandable to modern audiences (the Message)? Was it "witch", or "poisoner"? Does "thou shalt not kill" mean everyone, or just those in your tribe (this definitely varies among Christian denominations), or is it specifically a proscription against murder? Every one of these decisions is denominational, theological, and political, and most of them have caused schisms within and between denominations.

This sounds like another tech bro who happens to have convinced himself that the correct theological bias is to "avoid theology".

[ecofeco]

Supply Side Jesus

Approves!

[Dwarf]

Interesting for AI ..

Given that all the living things on this ball of mud that believe in these stories, can't agree which version of their story is better than all the other ones and as a result, many wars have started, then how would you expect a computer to resolve the same thing, when its fed the same information.

This also raises the possibility that it may process all the data and decide "religion X is false". What happens then - the next version of religion vs science ?

I note that Pat only said "change the world", there was no mention of "for the better"

[Not Yb]

Re: Interesting for AI ..

Current AI does not 'decide' anything. It may well return "religion X is false" when prompted, but it hasn't made anything like a decision. Ask it again with a slightly different prompt, and it could well say "religion X is true."

[Anonymous Coward]

Blasphemy!

Wait until the Islamic State AI finds out!

[Anonymous Coward]

Secular

The West decided to be secular some time ago but the religious continue to try and change that. They are just more people thinking they know what's good for us and believe we should be forced to live the way they decide. Secularism has worked just fine with people able to practice whatever religion they choose. That is freedom, I like freedom. Religion and I use the term to describe the human organised form, not the simple belief in god, has been responsible for some of the most ungodly deeds the world has seen.

[aks]

Facts versus persuasion

AI and other inputs to conversations relate to the powers of persuasion. They use facts, conjectures, theories, and downricght fabrications as ammunition, facts playing only a minor rôle.