VodafoneThree to offshore UK network jobs to India

VodafoneThree has told some staff their roles may be offshored to India under new contracts with Ericsson and Nokia – and that employment protections won't apply. Employees in the operator's UK Network Development division were last week summoned to calls led by chief network officer Iain Milligan, where they were warned that …

[Harald]

Vodafone customers: "you can't make your customer service even worse!!! you just can't!!!"

VodafoneThree: "hold my beer!!"

[Anonymous Coward]

TalkTalk: "Oh yes you can. That's what we do."

[Mishak]

One of the reasons I switched from Three to Vodafone (Lebara)...

was to get away from the utterly useless "Support" that Three offered.

In one case, it took two weeks to get them to "fix*" WiFi Calling not working (when it had been for years).

* They finally admitted them could only get it working by issuing a replacement SIM. No idea why they couldn't manage that with changes to their provisioning platform.

[Anonymous Coward]

Slow hand clap for Rachel Reeves.

[Anonymous Coward]

What has Rachel Reeves got to do with it ?

This is standard practice of the capitalistic world. Reduce costs for the shareholders, and don't give a fuck about local jobs.

[elsergiovolador]

So government could have predicted that.

[Roland6]

Ofcom approved the merger; Dame Melanie Dawes, a former economist has been its head since 2020. I suggest she would have known the predictable most likely outcome.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ofcom - another UK regulator not fit for purpose.

[Aladdin Sane]

It's easier to list the ones that are.

[LS79]

To be precise, the merger was approved by the CMA, not by Ofcom since this stuff is within the CMA's remit.

[Qwerty44]

Let's just forget Tori area and the caused 200+ billion pound damage that they caused just with Brexit.

At my area they pulled of 150M council support and in 10+ years all the roads went "offline" more potholes than proper surface.

New Labour council cannot keep up with the repair but they are doing it constantly.

I could carry on for about 3 weeks, so I will keep my oppinion about your comment to myself, but it is far from lovelly for sure, I'd expect some baseline at an IT forum, but clearly this is way too much to ask for.

[sgp]

What has Tori Amos got to do with it ?

[steviebuk]

Not forgetting the sale of a chip factory on iow to a Chinese company, agreed by the Tories. The Tories agreeing to allow China to part build a nuclear power station then finally realising its a bad idea.

[Roland6]

Well given India are part of the new China, Russia bloc, the future looks interesting…

[cookiecutter]

and sold our last virgin iron ore steel plant for £1 on the advice of a consultancy that was also working for the chinese, only for the chinese to try to close it, this making us even lot reliant on them!!

genuinely this country is run by self serving morons who read Hayek & Ftuedman think they were geniuses.

utter wankers! some stuff should not need to make s profit. the NHS, our steel industry, our energy and water industries..... you know... the stuff a country needs to run.

[steviebuk]

And ignoring the fact Chinese steel is low grade shit steel.

[Anonymous Coward]

Deep UK expertise

It's not untrue - the UK has a lot of experience in financial engineering.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Deep UK expertise

Financial - Probably the only "Engineering" field which is functioning in Britain

We must be thankful for them to rescuing us from Trussonomics, albeit with the help of a lettuce. Can't be sure if the lettuce was grown in Britain

[RegGuy1]

Re: Deep UK expertise

With 'probably' doing a lot of heavy lifting. :-)

‘The money machine is misfiring’: City blames Brexit for UK’s £20bn productivity headache

The UK has been losing market share since 2016 to the Netherlands, Ireland, Spain and Italy. Government analysis shows Britain’s share of the global pie has slumped to 15%, down from 21% in 2010.

“You would have expected the UK – given the size of its finance sector – to have done at least as well, if not better, than other countries,” says John Springford, an associate fellow at the Centre for European Reform.

“But financial services output has been pretty weak since 2016. And there hasn’t been a great deal of investment in the sector either.”

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Deep UK expertise

I'm trying to forget Blighty's self-inflicted wound. Maybe like Pamela Ewing in Dallas all those years ago, I'll wake up and find it's just been a dream. We are still in the EU, and Nick Clegg is PM. Oh, no, a nightmare!

Though... The (re) construction in the City is going a pace as ever. Guess pouring money into capital projects is as easy as pouring concrete and saves paying tax

[An_Old_Dog]

Excelsior!

"We're going to do bigger, better, more-awesome things (without you)!"

[Anonymous Coward]

"The merger was supposed to create jobs for the UK, not reduce them."

Did anyone actually believe that? It's straight out of the 'mergers and acquisitions bullshit playbook'.

[Anonymous Coward]

You just beat me to it.

I've seen first hand how these companies work. I've had conversations with people who still work there, and this was a worry that kept surfacing. i have no doubt more will follow as the merger matures.

[Anonymous Coward]

Predictable outcome with freebie loving government.

[Starfish]

Yup, along with "Subscriber prices won't be affected"

The UK Telco industry has had envious eyes on Canadian and US pricing for years (i.e. upwards of $50 CAD per month for a standard service), and this merger is another step on getting there.

[BartyFartsLast]

It's really easy to find any number of mobile contracts nudging up at that sort of level.

[Dave Pickles]

All the same...

I was just about to move my phone from O2 to Vodafone as punishment for weaselling around OFCOM, now Voda are tarred with the same profit-grabbing brush. What to do??

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: All the same...

This term goes back a few years, decades even...

"Rip Off Britain"

Death, taxes and getting ripped off. Life's certainties in Britain.

Did you see recently some butter sizes were reduced from 250g to 200g. And a couple of supermarkets did not reduce the prices accordingly, until called out. Price gouging is a given

[David Hicklin]

Re: All the same...

> butter sizes were reduced from 250g to 200g. And a couple of supermarkets did not reduce the prices accordingly

Its called shrinkflation and has been going on for decades, only it has got a lot lot more worse since 2020. The really sneaky ones are where the packaging size does not change so it still looks as big as before

[Captain Hogwash]

Re: What to do??

MVNO

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: All the same...

Well, you could move to EE?

But they'll probably be just as shit, of course...

[Josco]

Re: All the same...

They are.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: All the same...

Depends on where you are. If you live in or around Oxford city the answer is NO for EE who remain the very worst provider in this city. You might get 'bars' but there's zero throughput. It's pretty much the same for all mobile services there following the mismanaged removal of the old signal provision on the old mall. None of the people in power or in these companies are interested in fixing it as the issues were reported beginning of 2024 (yes really).

https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/Mobile-Network-discussions/Coverage-in-Oxford/td-p/1356531/emcs_t/S2h8ZW1haWx8dG9waWNfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ufE1DVUNFNEg4QVNWMlZDfDE1NDY3MTB8U1VCU0NSSVBUSU9OU3xoSw

At this point I'd support the council setting up a Municipal public wifi.

[Stu J]

Re: All the same...

1pmobile

[Steve Davies 3]

Re: All the same...

Move to an MVNO and get the same network but at a lower cost. You end up paying the evil phone networks less £££££\

[Jess--]

Re: All the same...

and get your traffic routed at a lower priority or just flat out lower speed connection.

experienced this in action years ago whn comapring speeds between my phone and a friends phone (identical handsets, same network, same location) mine was consistently 10 x faster than his, swap sims between handsets and his is suddenly faster than mine.

Only difference between us were that I was on contract and he was running payg

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: All the same...

EE

[cookiecutter]

extra taxes!!

no one hates uk workers more than the uk government & UK companies.. especially ones that go on about how british they are!

there should be £100,000 extra per year tax levied on every job offshored.

want to create a 500 person call centre in india or south africa? that's an £50 million in taxes you have to pay!

want to setup a factory in china to teach them how to hack our NHS? 1000 staff? that's £100 million in extra taxes/year.

in a country where graduates are having to fight to get bloody barista jobs, allowing this kind of shite is nothing short of traitorous!

[kmorwath]

Re: extra taxes!!

It's much simpler - and less "communist" - you have to pay offshore staff for local tasks the same rates you would pay locally, and the same taxes, of course.

[Missing Semicolon]

Re: extra taxes!!

There should be tariffs on importing labour.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: extra taxes!!

… and destroys you tax base. See Rachel Reeves for why that is important.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: extra taxes!!

Perhaps there should be a punative tariff baked into the signing off the consent by a regulator for post-merger falsehoods and weaselling?

Like a Government Golden Share.

[elsergiovolador]

Vodafluke

VodafoneThree isn’t a telecoms company anymore. It’s a parasite in corporate form - one that burrowed into the UK economy, sucked up public goodwill, spectrum licences, and infrastructure, and is now excreting what’s left overseas. The merger was sold as “building Britain’s best network”; in reality it’s dismantling Britain’s ability to build anything at all.

This is the anatomy of late-stage capitalism: take a national industry, wrap it in marketing about “innovation” and “5G leadership”, then quietly amputate the local workforce and graft the work onto a cheap offshore limb. The cost savings go to executives and shareholders, while the social cost - lost skills, empty offices, collapsing local economies - gets dumped on the public.

They’ll still pose as a British brand while their actual engineering base withers abroad, the profits routed through tax havens, and the network managed by people who will never set foot in the communities it supposedly connects. It’s not just job losses; it’s cultural erosion - the slow unpicking of national competence under the pretence of “efficiency”.

VodafoneThree isn’t investing in Britain. It’s feeding off it - draining wages, expertise, and pride, then discarding the carcass. And when the PR smoke clears, we’ll be left with a hollowed-out industry run from a spreadsheet, in a country that no longer owns the means to maintain its own signal.

And when the whole thing inevitably collapses - I just hope government will not come to rescue with tax payer money.

[Lon24]

Re: Vodafluke

Have they offshored most of their network too?

I'm with VodafoneThree's Smarty Service, like the other networks is cr*p here in a populous area of inner London groping 1 bar 4G or occasionally 5G. Just been roaming in rural Sicily Pretty solid 4/5 bar 5G most places. Weirdly I get the best London reception on the deeply underground Elizabeth Line ;-)

[graemep]

Re: Vodafluke

IN short the management do what they will be rewarded for doing.

> it’s cultural erosion - the slow unpicking of national competence under the pretence of “efficiency”.

That is globalisation. It is regarded as a good thing by everyone that matters (i.e. governments and big businesses).

[Dippywood]

'The merger was sold as “building Britain’s best network"'

That was a typo - it should have read “building Britain’s best notwork."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Vodafluke

Vodafone started to fo down the toilet on the bonanza sale of its 50% stake in Verizon.

It went from a could have been the first Global Scale CellCo to an asset stripping operation.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Vodafluke

Same as Lloyd’s Banking Group or Barclay’s then..

[VoiceOfTruth]

Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

Gold. Excellent. This really does make me laugh.

We offshored the printing of passports to France. Let's get Angola to print our banknotes.

We can just be consumers.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

Maybe it's time to offshore the government.

[Like a badger]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

Solid idea. The government of Singapore to run Britain on a five year contract.

Singapore certainly has its faults, and the democracy is a bit limited, but stuff works. Since UK democracy allows me a vote every five years without anything changing or a shred of competence being displayed then what have I got to lose? Only the venality and couldn't care less attitude of the Tory party, or the appalling incompetence and minor dishonesty of the Labour party.

[cookiecutter]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

singapore is built on virtual slave labour from workers in countries nearby.

we all hate democracy until we see someone connected in another country literally get away with murder.

All those immigrants to tax free Dubai from the UK were quite happy to come rushing back here after the 2007 financial crash. even leaving their luxury cars in the desert

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

Every country is built on iteration of slave labour.

In most countries though you have a freedom to choose your master.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

You have defined the 'look' of the two main parties in the UK BUT I feel that the Labour party is unfairly maligned as BOTH parties are guilty of being incompetent !!!

The Tories could only focus on the party and the internal politics for 14 years ... the country came 2nd ALWAYS.

The Labour Party is ALWAYS fighting itself, it wins then 'kills' itself because internal power struggles are played out in the streets with 'switch-blades and bike chains'.

The Tories are VERY good at pretending that all is well and treating the voters as idiots ... AFTER they have had your votes.

The Labour party has high aims BUT cannot maintain a focus because EVERY faction sees the chance for power and sabotages the Party before they get a chance to start.

Tories always get the benefit of the doubt and we wait for the 'plan' to work before we complain that things are not getting better ... the last time we waited 14 years !!!

Labour manage to win then are 'nailed to a wall' because they did not reverse 14 years of pain in 14 months !!!

We deserve better BUT Reform is yet another scam merchant lead 'party of dreams', lining 'some' people’s pockets at our expense AKA the Trump method.

Blame 'others' for all our ills BUT nothing will change as Reform are Right-wing Tories, hidden 'Real' Fascists and worse. (Look at all the [ex-]Tory defectors who have joined, to start with !!!).

Reform is the thin-end of the wedge for some very unsavoury people (the Nazi known as 'Tommy Robinson' as an example !!!)

Don't think that you can control/rein-in these sorts of people when chasing a 'greater good' etc ... that was the mistake that Germany made pre-WWII !!!

:)

[Roland6]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

> BUT Reform is yet another scam merchant lead 'party of dreams'

I heard a good point about why Reform are doing so well: They haven’t been in power yet and so haven’t failed, whereas both Labour and Conservatives have been in power and have repeatedly failed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

Perhaps some high tax, high services like Nordic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

>Maybe it's time to offshore the government

Noooooo! We've already tried that. We just got it back 5 years ago. What we need do now is stop voting for the Uniparty. Complete regime change needed.

[Roj Blake]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

There was a national poll recently that had Reform in first place with the Greens second. The Tories and the other Tories were each on 16 points.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

They will gain power ... fail because they have no idea how to do anything (just like the real Tories) ... the Real Tories will project they are saving the country and get back in to continue lining their own pockets Trump style.

i.e. Things will be back to what we had pre-labour ... all is good in the world and austerity will be back again !!!

:)

[Steve Davies 3]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

Just look at what Trumpenomics is doing to the USA. 40 million about to lose healthcare. 20+ million about to be unable to put food on the table (SNAP benefit recipients)

Farage is a Trump boot licker. Do we want the above to happen here? no, we don't.

So don't vote for the Farage team of failed Tories.

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Steve Davies 3

"Just look at what Trumpenomics is doing to the USA. 40 million about to lose healthcare. 20+ million about to be unable to put food on the table (SNAP benefit recipients)"

In what way is this 'Trumpenomics'? It is down to Trump and his administration that the military still get paid while the dems mess about.

[Roland6]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

>” It is down to Trump and his administration that the military still get paid while the dems mess about.”

Recent evidence is Trump is trying to avoid paying government personnel and demonising those who decide to not continue working without pay as being unamercian.

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Roland6

"Recent evidence is Trump is trying to avoid paying government personnel and demonising those who decide to not continue working without pay as being unamercian."

I cant say I have been keeping up with it but this spending shortage isnt under the Presidents authority. The dems are insisting on not paying anyone.

[Paul Crawford]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

The dems are insisting on not paying anyone

Utter rubbish. This is down to elected representatives passing the bill, as the Republicans could have agreed not to cut healthcare, raise taxes on the wealthy a bit to cover it, and the bill would pass and more Americans would be healthy.

But more fundamentally it is an utterly broken system: most other governments keep going on the last budget until a new one is agreed.

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Paul Crawford

"Utter rubbish. This is down to elected representatives passing the bill, as the Republicans could have agreed not to cut healthcare, raise taxes on the wealthy a bit to cover it, and the bill would pass and more Americans would be healthy."

I assume you dont mean the dems aint elected? And they are refusing to pass the bill so yes elected representatives are refusing to fund the government. And yes I am sure if the republicans gave the dems everything they wanted they would vote to pass it, and the next time and the next. Also the issue isnt unhealthy Americans but paying for non-Americans health, even when they are not supposed to.

"But more fundamentally it is an utterly broken system: most other governments keep going on the last budget until a new one is agreed."

Very true. The CR emergency measure has become the normal way to fund government. And from what I read it assumes all prior spending was necessary which only bloats the figure, even if it funded something temporarily that isnt there anymore. So giving in to the dems to spend even more would be an even worse idea.

[Roland6]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

>” But more fundamentally it is an utterly broken system: most other governments keep going on the last budget until a new one is agreed.”

Given this seems to happen every year, it does seem the US system is particularly broken. I suspect if government did actually close if there was no budget agreement eg. Air traffic controllers and customs did actually stop working, the stupidity of the current system would be rapidly resolved.

Could the US survive 4 weeks of no flights, no customs, plus all kids at home due to schools being closed…

[Roland6]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

>” I cant say I have been keeping up with it but this spending shortage isnt under the Presidents authority.”

We could debate the extent to which a republican president does or doesn’t have influence over their members in Congress and the Senate. However, my point was slightly different. Currently government employees are not being paid, but are being expected to continue working and thus incurring expenses until such time as the politicians can reach agreement.

The more you think about this, the exploitation and unfairness of the situation, on ordinary people who have no real say in the Congressional and Senate budget debates, becomes abundantly clear.

Hence Trump’s unAmerican outburst about government employees, behaving like UK employees do in the absence of a monthly pay cheque and thus treating the situation as either termination of employment or as zero hours in a zero hours contract, and so finding alternative pursuits are out of order.

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Roland6

"Hence Trump’s unAmerican outburst about government employees, behaving like UK employees do in the absence of a monthly pay cheque and thus treating the situation as either termination of employment or as zero hours in a zero hours contract, and so finding alternative pursuits are out of order."

I still cant find the comment he made. I remember him saying it might make it easier to cut government workers if the gov is shut down, but the dems were happy to do that.

"We could debate the extent to which a republican president does or doesn’t have influence over their members in Congress and the Senate. However, my point was slightly different. Currently government employees are not being paid, but are being expected to continue working and thus incurring expenses until such time as the politicians can reach agreement."

This is one of those separation of powers things which Trump will get the blame for things not being done when the dems actively sabotage the government. Kinda stupid but such is politics. I believe the politicians get back pay over the shutdown period so it is less of a concern for them. Maybe that aught to be changed.

[Roland6]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

You may be right that Trump didn’t say the exact words ie. There doesn’t appear to be a readily accessible soundbite.

However, his “administration” has.

US Transportation Secretary threatens to fire absent air traffic controllers

White House suggests some federal workers may not get back pay after shutdown

My memory of the BBC R4 news coverage at the beginning of the month included Trump making the “unAmerican” comment. [Aside: It’s a shame the BBC don’t publish transcripts of their news broadcasts as it would make searching easier.]

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Roland6

"You may be right that Trump didn’t say the exact words ie. There doesn’t appear to be a soundbite."

Ah. I must admit this is one of the irritations on reporting Trump because sometimes he does say something, sometimes it is taken out of context and other times it is just plain made up. Pointing this out does upset anti-Trumpers but as it is pretty much any and all reporting suffering the problem he probably could do something really bad and nobody would believe it due to the constant lies about him.

"Trump administration threatens to fire unpaid air traffic controllers, deny back pay to furloughed federal workers"

I just clicked the link and I already see a problem. Am I supposed to take seriously a site called 'the world socialist website'? However it reports that the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) called not showing up illegal. The article cries over Reagan breaking up the air unions which was one of the best things to happen to US air travel.

"Whilst this source isn’t the best and is almost certainly biased, it was high in a Google search - I remember hearing a BBC radio 4 news piece - but this far out am unable to say if it was Trump himself or a “spokesman”, it does contain the relevant point."

It sounds like underlings making cuts to the workforce and Trump wants to cut the federal workforce. As Trump and others warned it could be easier for them to do so if the gov shut down. The problem falls squarely on the dems in the Senate. If this was the other way around I would be blaming the republicans. However we look at it the US has a spending problem (here in the UK our gov has the same problem).

[Roland6]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Codejunky

You obviously saw my comment before I revised it. After posting, I was not happy with the reference and so did a little more digging and got a couple of BBC references and so updated the comment.

>” The article cries over Reagan breaking up the air unions which was one of the best things to happen to US air travel.”

Yes, this sort of thing I find “amusing”, the “socialist” papers (at Uni. used to enjoy reading The Times, Telegraph, Guardian, Daily Mail and Socialist Worker for their differing takes on the same story) tended to say that what Thatcher did to the unions was bad, and in some ways it was, but for many unions it forced them to change and become better, meaning now most strikes really do have majority member support for example. However, “what's good for the goose is good for the gander” and we should be looking to place comparable constraints.on business, especially those who seek to unduly influence government.

>” The problem falls squarely on the dems in the Senate. If this was the other way around I would be blaming the republicans.”

I don’t see it as being so black and white, given this “negotiation”/horse-trading is a deliberate construct within the US political system. We get to a similar position in the UK with minority governments, however, our solution tends to make the budget “bland” or uncontroversial so that it gets approved (the wry laugh has been at these times the economy has performed better than when a more overtly political budget has been approved).. But clearly in the US winning is more important than keeping the wheels moving.

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Roland6

"You obviously saw my comment before I revised it. After posting, I was not happy with the reference and so did a little more digging and got a couple of BBC references and so updated the comment."

Sorry about that. The new article clearly states the air traffic controllers are essential workers and so cannot strike which is a prerequisite of taking the job. The second one is going to be one of those tested by court things I expect where some of those who dont work dont get backpay. You wont find me defending the situation of funding gov through CR nor the dems shutting down government because they want to blow a load more money. And I think the senators shouldnt get back pay for shutting down government.

"However, “what's good for the goose is good for the gander” and we should be looking to place comparable constraints.on business, especially those who seek to unduly influence government."

Sure. I would suggest reducing the power of government and not concentrating it at the top to help with this too.

"But clearly in the US winning is more important than keeping the wheels moving."

Very true.

[Roland6]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

>” The new article clearly states the air traffic controllers are essential workers and so cannot strike which is a prerequisite of taking the job.”

Not going to work because you aren’t being paid isn’t going on strike, although I wonder if their employment contract explicitly covers this period of working whilst budgets get approved.

[codejunky]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

@Roland6

"Not going to work because you aren’t being paid isn’t going on strike, although I wonder if their employment contract explicitly covers this period of working whilst budgets get approved."

I think the essential worker bit means that. Kinda like police, fire and so on cant stop working. Happy to be shown wrong. I can kinda understand it but think senators aught to have more skin in the game as they are the ones causing the shutdown.

[SundogUK]

Re: Reform is just a more right-wing version of the Tories.

"40 million about to lose healthcare. 20+ million about to be unable to put food on the table (SNAP benefit recipients)"

The shutdown is entirely down to the Democrats.

[Roj Blake]

Re: austerity will be back again

Implying austerity ever went away.

[Roland6]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

There is a sizeable Anglophile group in the Conservatives and Reform who would like the Whitehouse to run the show…

[AnonContractor]

Re: Offshoring a key part of your telecommunications networks

We've already off-shored the government to the highest bidder[s]

- Russia when the Tories were in power

- The-Country-That-Cannot-Be-Named now Labour are in power

When I was in Turkey years ago I marvelled at all the conspiracy theories and pro-this and pro-that groups jockeying for power

Since leaving the EU we are being tossedm, and sunk, by the same tides..

[codejunky]

Isnt this what people want?

Isnt the argument that if the businesses cant pay their staff whatever living wage + dreams and wishes then they shouldnt be here? On the other hand wasnt offshoring call centres to India tried and then they relocated back because customers didnt like it?

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

Corporations absolutely can pay good wages, but they have a contempt for working class. The thought that shareholder can't buy another yacht, because some pleb engineer should be paid six figures, is a vein popping event. Because what's next? Those unwashed mouse clickers will start showing up at members clubs? Better offshore the whole thing altogether and perish those horrendous thoughts.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@elsergiovolador

"Corporations absolutely can pay good wages, but they have a contempt for working class"

Then dont work for them.

"The thought that shareholder can't buy another yacht, because some pleb engineer should be paid six figures, is a vein popping event."

Then dont work for them, instead invest in them.

"Because what's next? Those unwashed mouse clickers will start showing up at members clubs?"

Or the Mc Donalds way was to replace the expensive humies demanding higher wages with computers who get the order right, tell the remaining humies how to do it right and are cheaper than the higher wages. Because the value the humies provide was less than the value they created.

"Better offshore the whole thing altogether and perish those horrendous thoughts."

To where the price of the labour is less than the value of their labour which keeps the business in profit which employs people which allows the business to grow and survive.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

The old “then don’t work for them” fallacy - the intellectual refuge of people who think markets are moral arbiters. The issue isn’t that individuals are too dim to “just leave”, it’s that corporate consolidation and policy capture have eliminated real alternatives. When every major employer behaves the same way, “don’t work for them” becomes “don’t work at all.”

“Then invest in them” is even funnier - as if the average engineer can outbid BlackRock or snag a board seat with their ISA. At least you didn’t say “start your own telecom.”

The McDonald’s analogy also misses the point. Engineers aren’t being replaced by automation; they’re being replaced by cheaper humans. It’s wage arbitrage. The machines didn’t get smarter; the accountants just got meaner.

And that sanctimonious “keeps the business in profit” line? Profit for whom? When profits are funnelled offshore while local wages collapse, that’s not growth - it’s economic strip-mining.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@elsergiovolador

The old “then don’t work for them” fallacy - the intellectual refuge of people who think markets are moral arbiters. The issue isn’t that individuals are too dim to “just leave”, it’s that corporate consolidation and policy capture have eliminated real alternatives. When every major employer behaves the same way, “don’t work for them” becomes “don’t work at all.”

Ok. This is the route I am taking and intentionally. So dont work for them. Even if that is dont work at all for any of them. If they are so bad dont work for them. Why not?

"The McDonald’s analogy also misses the point. Engineers aren’t being replaced by automation; they’re being replaced by cheaper humans. It’s wage arbitrage. The machines didn’t get smarter; the accountants just got meaner."

Those evil bastard customers who would move to the cheaper product. As a result of customers demanding more for less the company wants to pay as little as possible. Yet they need to pay enough to attract the talent. And when the 'talent' costs too much (wage demands and/or even government tax demands) they look to somewhere less expensive. The Mc analogy was only to point out the pricing out of labour in obvious terms most of us have seen.

"And that sanctimonious “keeps the business in profit” line? Profit for whom?"

The business which not only exists due to taking risk and funding by those expecting reward (capitalist or socialist) but also has to be able to pay the suppliers and support it relies on plus its workers plus prepare for the rainy day. And as you go to work to earn a pay they make the business to earn a pay.

"When profits are funnelled offshore while local wages collapse, that’s not growth - it’s economic strip-mining."

Why would they offshore profits? Are they trying to spend it elsewhere or just trying not to be robbed?

[Roland6]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

>” Why would they offshore profits? Are they trying to spend it elsewhere or just trying not to be robbed?”

Legalised money laundering…

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"which keeps the business in profit which employs people which allows the business to grow and survive".

There's just one teensy problem with this neoliberal bollocks. A business can't grow and survive when there aren't enough people earning wages to afford whatever tat the business is selling.

Offshoring jobs to Bangalore (say) contributes nothing to the UK economy. Apart from enriching a handful of greedy bastards in the boardroom who don't really need or deserve enrichment.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@AC

"There's just one teensy problem with this neoliberal bollocks. A business can't grow and survive when there aren't enough people earning wages to afford whatever tat the business is selling."

Then they wouldnt buy the tat because it wouldnt be worth the money and so the market prevails.

"Offshoring jobs to Bangalore (say) contributes nothing to the UK economy."

And why would they do this? Why would the business care about the UK economy instead of itself? Do customers care about the UK economy or themselves? The answer to that question is answered by them doing business with companies that offshore instead of paying higher prices for local workers.

"Apart from enriching a handful of greedy bastards in the boardroom who don't really need or deserve enrichment."

And if they dont deserve it they will likely get a pay cut or shown the door.

[ChodeMonkey]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"And if they dont deserve it they will likely get a pay cut or shown the door."

Madame, why would you even suggest such a thing? At board level we decide what we get. Otherwise what kind of communist nightmare are you suggesting, that we at the top do not get our God-given due from patronage and heritage ? MONSTROUS!

[The man with a spanner]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

The argument that there aren't people buying the product is a steaming pile of bullshit. Between Three and Vodaphone they have a huge proportion of UK customers.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@The man with a spanner

"The argument that there aren't people buying the product is a steaming pile of bullshit.

I didnt say people aint buying the product. What I said was-

Do customers care about the UK economy or themselves? The answer to that question is answered by them doing business with companies that offshore instead of paying higher prices for local workers.

It is up to people if they are happy with the product/service and the provider. You are saying they are because they are customers. We as people are free to choose.

[Lon24]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"We as people are free to choose"

Yep, just three networks either directly - or indirectly through a MVNO. All the UK networks rank low down in supposedly developed countries. There is no real choice for good service and it's a race to the bottom as, I believe, some MVNOs can get an edge by contracting an even more throttled service from the big three.

Though I gather the US is even worse. At least Smarty only costs me £5.40/month for 12GB data + unlimited calls/texts when I can get a decent connection.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@Lon24

"Yep, just three networks either directly - or indirectly through a MVNO. All the UK networks rank low down in supposedly developed countries."

So? Are they not good enough for what we use them for? Note the existing networks going through an anti-China revamp thanks to government whims. We will always demand more but are we willing to pay for it?

"There is no real choice for good service and it's a race to the bottom as, I believe, some MVNOs can get an edge by contracting an even more throttled service from the big three."

I am happy with my service and dont know anyone complaining about the speed of their connection. Sometimes coverage is better with one service than another in some places but the UK is generally pretty well covered.

"Though I gather the US is even worse."

So I hear.

"At least Smarty only costs me £5.40/month for 12GB data + unlimited calls/texts when I can get a decent connection."

If you have a problem with the connection have you looked for alternatives? Or is the price so attractive to keep you with them? It sounds like you are making the rational economic choice I discuss above

[Roland6]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

> We will always demand more but are we willing to pay for it?

In this instance Vodafone Three aren’t giving their customers a choice. They are saying it’s cost saving, but the numbers involved against the size of the organisation say otherwise. We also know having made this “cost saving” Vodafone Three will still increase their prices above the rate of inflation, citing a load of bullshit about how impoverished they are…

Given all three operators are playingg the same game, the consumer is being subjected to a cartel. With the government wanting to do everything digital and presume everyone will have a live mobile phone , it would seem the government are also in on the cartel, leaving you and I with very little choice - yesterday my family went out - nowhere accepted cash it was all contactless.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@Roland6

"In this instance Vodafone Three aren’t giving their customers a choice."

They dont need to. Stop buying from them and they get the message. Go to a competitor behaving more to your liking and it sends a clearer message.

"Given all three operators are playingg the same game, the consumer is being subjected to a cartel. With the government wanting to do everything digital and presume everyone will have a live mobile phone , it would seem the government are also in on the cartel, leaving you and I with very little choice - yesterday my family went out - nowhere accepted cash it was all contactless."

Isnt there 4 operators in the UK? But if they make owning a mobile too much of a chore then people wont bother with mobiles. I cant see that happening though. And yes the gov doesnt help the situation regardless of their intent to participate.

[LVPC]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

>> But if they make owning a mobile too much of a chore then people wont bother with mobiles. I cant see that happening though

Had a billing problem with my mobile provider a few months after I ripped their garbage cable modem out of the wall and sent it back because it wouldn't work when it got cold outside. 7 working days later had gigabit symmetric fibre.

So when they screwed up my mobile billing, just started using my iPhone as a mini ipad.

Both iMessage and Facetime kept working off my Wi-Fi and as an added bonus, no scam calls, no spam (anything from the IN tld,, gmail, and outlook.com email all deleted - not sent to spam or junk.

Everything else, you have to send an email to one of my domains. Think of all the scammers who are thwarted by not being able to call and say they are a bank inspector or law enforcement or grandkid.

Phone numbers, and the ability to spoof them or steal your identity with a sim swap, are the weakest link. No phone number makes it impossible for their scams to work.

"What about an emergency?" you say? If you have an emergency , why are you calling me? If I have an emergency, I'll can damn well tend to it myself.

[Roland6]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

>” They dont need to. Stop buying from them and they get the message.”

It’s odd that operators try so hard to get people to switch to them, that the only option they offer their customers is: suck it up or leave.

I expect none of the operators actually ask their customers if they would be prepared to pay slightly more for a wholly UK operation over an offshored operation. The focus being totally on the short term cost reduction.

> Isnt there 4 operators in the UK?

EE (BT), VM (previously O2), Vodafone Three.

The rest are MVNOs.

[codejunky]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

@Roland6

"It’s odd that operators try so hard to get people to switch to them, that the only option they offer their customers is: suck it up or leave."

I find they tend to care more about the people willing to leave than the ones who moan but just stay.

"EE (BT), VM (previously O2), Vodafone Three."

That sucks but yeah just checked.

[LVPC]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

Customers always have the final word. I've been boycotting McDonald's since the end of the previous century. My arteries, general health, etc, are better for it.

And it actually works out cheaper.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

Or the Mc Donalds way was to replace the expensive humies demanding higher wages with computers who get the order right, tell the remaining humies how to do it right and are cheaper than the higher wages. Because the value the humies provide was less than the value they created.

Sounds like you are speaking from experience. Thanks for sharing your real world experience here.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"On the other hand wasnt offshoring call centres to India tried and then they relocated back because customers didnt like it?"

Usual business cycle.

REPEAT

Cut costs, get bonus, move on.

Repair damage, regain customer base, get bonus, move on.

UNTIL THE COWS COME HOME

I've always reckoned an effective strategy would be cut advertising and marketing costs and deploy the saving into good products and customer service and just gain market share from the others' customer churn.

[Like a badger]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"I've always reckoned an effective strategy would be cut advertising and marketing costs and deploy the saving into good products and customer service and just gain market share from the others' customer churn."

My line of trade is business strategy, and I can assure you that whilst your idea sounds great, and everybody you put it to will say "By Jove! That's a fabulous idea, and I'd definitely sign up with and then stick with Syntaxtel", the reality is different.

I know from customer research that perhaps 80% of people will say they value good service and would pay extra for it, that service is as important as price etc etc. There's advisory companies claiming that customer service leaders in an industry have 3x the growth rates of the laggards, etc etc. But when push comes to shove, the public buy on price alone, and they'll switch supplier for a penny a month saving without a thought for the reputation of their new supplier. Moreover, most customers don't have much interaction with a telco - eg Talktalk are known for shit service, but if their billing is accurate and your phone works then you'd never have cause to find out. And the final nail in the coffin of your idea is that the mass market has the attention span and analytical powers of a goldfish, so reducing marketing spend has a very very quick outcome of falling customer numbers which won't be offset by better retention.

This is why all the big companies have shit service, and if you want good customer service you have to be with somebody small, because whilst there are some people who will pay for better service, they are a tiny proportion of the total market. My ISP is known for good customer service, but they are so small they are able to publish small company exemption accounts.

[Richard 12]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

You missed the "deploy the savings" part.

All the big three have about 1-1.5% annual churn which is a lot of customers.

Marketing seems to be something like 10% of big telco spending, with individual campaigns spending around £10m.

You both seem to agree that the only marketing need is to appear in the price comparison sites, so cutting marketing spend by 90% and putting half towards customer service and the other half towards reducing prices. The latter gets Syntaxtel to the top of the price comparison site, while the former reduces their churn.

[Like a badger]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"You both seem to agree that the only marketing need is to appear in the price comparison sites, so cutting marketing spend by 90% and putting half towards customer service and the other half towards reducing prices. The latter gets Syntaxtel to the top of the price comparison site, while the former reduces their churn."

I didn't agree that the only marketing need is to be on price comparison sites, but your logic still doesn't work if I did. Relevant to the story, I've been a business strategist for a couple of large energy suppliers. You know what their reputation for service is, and I can assure all that these facts were known internally. For a period we had a UK CEO who was earnest, competent, respected, and who set an ambition of shifting the very stuck needle on our performance. Despite some modest wins, he got shoved out after a few years by our European parent company, and the small gains were lost as the business lurched back to its default business model. We did seriously try and improve service to reduce churn and offer better customer service: It didn't work.

One of the problems we had in using PCWs is that (1) they provide low margin, price sensitive customers who only stay for the duration of a fixed term contract, and (2) they are very expensive - they wanted about £50 per switched customer per service, so around £100 per dual fuel customer. That was about three quarters of the entire net margin on a two year fixed rate deal at the time, so you'll see that PCWs might seem great for customers, they don't help a supplier much at all. And at the end of the fixed term, the PCW emails all the customers and says "your two year fix is ending, but competitor X is offering a deal of £xxx per month". PCWs are a good way of getting some customer volume into the business which can be important for balancing a supplier's commodity books, but these are not loyal customers and they aren't where the business makes money.

[kmorwath]

"effective strategy would be cut advertising and marketing costs"

And lose all those nice artsy chickens you can hire in marketing and advertising departments, and all those fancies "business events" where you can enjoy their company? Have nice ads made with famous people (or just beautiful ones), and meet them at customers' expenses? And exchange them with those boring experts in customer services and technology? Which in turn risk to expose execs incompetencte?

Why would you make executives' life far less exciting concentranting in real business isssues and good products, they don't know anything about, since all they can look at are Excel spreadheets forecatsing revenues?

Remember Vodafone had that great CEO named Colao - whose greatest achievement was to move HQ in London center - better restaraunts, better veneus, better chickens around for execs... - and the company had to sell later branches in other nations, and then merge...

[Rattus]

Re: Isnt this what people want?

"I've always reckoned an effective strategy would be cut advertising and marketing costs and deploy the saving into good products and customer service and just gain market share from the others' customer churn."

You are nearly right with that...

When a company does just what you say, they gain market share, they pay their staff well and make a profit, hell they might even make their customers happy :-) <<=== I want more companies like this - I used to work for one of them...

Unfortunately companies like that are few and far between because eventually someone makes an offer to buy the company that the board can not refuse. The company is then stripped of assets (transferred to the parent or holding company, so they can be rented back), it is saddled with the debt incurred in buying the company (and we see charges of management fees for providing an executive from the new parent company). Next R&D is shown the door, Support is reduced and or offshored, because profits can be higher. The new execs get to take a big bonus, and the company can trade on for another few years as a zombie - it is already dead, it just doesn't know it yet.

The exec go back to the parent company, mission accomplished and more the richer, leaving the a corpse of another company in its wake (or better yet sold to another meat grinder to pick over the remains), along with a staff looking for new work.....

[Rol]

Offshoring surely needs testing at court!

In English employment law, the job gets made redundant, not the person. So how can staff in the UK be made redundant when the job still exists?

Yeah, I appreciate they have the choice to move to India and carry on working, but that was never in the employment contract they signed.

It seems a bit of a stretch, that it is illegal to make someone redundant and then employ someone else to do their job, but it is okay if that new employee lives in another country?

So, a manager can make a "troublesome" member of staff redundant and replace them with someone working from abroad, and then after a suitable amount of time has elapsed, rehire for the role in the UK, and not be up in front of a tribunal for it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Offshoring surely needs testing at court!

"It seems a bit of a stretch, that it is illegal to make someone redundant and then employ someone else to do their job, but it is okay if that new employee lives in another country?"

The article talks about new contracts with Ericsson and Nokia - I assume this refers to Ericsson India and Nokia India and so it is not a case of "new employee lives in another country" as then there would not be a "new employee" of VodafoneThree, any new person would be a new employee of Ericsson India or Nokia India rather than of VodafoneThree.

"TUPE applies to employees of businesses in the UK" and a "part of the business [in the UK] that’s transferring ownership". It's not clear in this article if the affected part of VodafoneThree is "a business [in the UK] transferring ownership", rather than VodafoneThree signing contracts with some parts of Ericsson and Nokia to provide these services.

[GlenP]

Re: Offshoring surely needs testing at court!

Changing location of a role is an acceptable reason for redundancy.

They may give you the option to transfer to the new place of work, but aren't necessarily obliged to. Full disclosure, I've been made redundant twice due to my place of work closing and the role being moved elsewhere, in both cases I was given an offer to move but declined.

What counts as a change of location can be open to some interpretation* but I did advise colleagues in the reverse position (they were being TUPE'd without the offer of redundancy when the roles were being moved to another company 20 miles away and with far poorer access) that they should insist on redundancy terms but they just resigned anyway.

*In one case moving a small operation about a mile was considered sufficient for workers to claim redundancy, on the grounds there were no bus services to the new location.

[nematoad]

Re: Offshoring surely needs testing at court!

...but it is okay if that new employee lives in another country?

I don't know, but when me and all the people I worked with got booted out for people from Bangalore they weren't working in another country, they just moved in and took over our desks.

Illegal? Maybe, but it didn't seem to matter to the company we worked at. Though as they are a huge American conglomerate I don't suppose anyone in the government was brave enough to challenge them on it.

[Boris the Cockroach]

Shocked

and surprised!

Well no not really, about par for a big company after a merger, gotta pay all those C level people their bonuses and share options for managing such a difficult process.

[Crazy UK tax]

No Shock at all

When there are stupid people like Reeves incharge of money maters in this country. She has made local hiring so expensive for employers that its easier for them to off shore when there is no law restricting it.

There should be a law that should restrict only certain percentage of off shoring if services are sold in UK.

[Michael B.]

Re: No Shock at all

Give it a rest. There seems to be some creeping campaign online to blame Reeves for everything including stuff that happened before she was chancellor.

Offshoring has been going on since I started in the IT business *cough* years ago. They were offshoring jobs even before the UK had a minimum wage which we were told was going to destroy all jobs. No this is just greed from VodaThree and I hope they learn hard and fast that this is a dumb idea.

[Nematode]

I quit VF years ago on account of poor service (and they dumped the SureSignal, vital back then if you had no signal) ad went to ..... Threeeeee! Have had pretty good service from them actually, and even the WiFi calling pretty much works. I'm sure VF can eff it up again. Trouble is, is there anyone else better to go to?! Replies on a postcard please to ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Replies on a postcard please to ...

Does the UK postal service still work ?

It would then appear to be the only thing that does.

[Gort99]

Re: Replies on a postcard please to ...

No.

[paul-m-w72]

Companies like this are why phone call scams are as bad as they are, companies offload the call center to places like India so when some less tech savvy or venerable people get a call from an Indian sounding voice they actually think its the correct customer service crew calling offering deals or whatnot and get scammed.

Any company thats offshored call centres should pay towards the cost of trying to bring the scammers down.

Rant Over !

[Gort99]

'Scammers'? That's no way to refer to their marketing department.

[carguy143]

The more you offshore, the more limited the spending power of the British public will become because if they can't find work, they can't afford your services.

[Derezed]

Rofl…the people who are getting bonuses will be in their next gig by then.

[cookiecutter]

yeah but their succesors start whinging that no one buys their products & that no one is loyal to the company anymore, completely oblivious to the fact that what THEY did at their previous firm has been done at their current firm by their predecessor.

if you ever needed proof that CEOs are fucking retarded, this is it.

look at how they're suddenly crying that the chinese population is predicted to 1/2 & that they only buy locally built products now after being trained by european and US companies who, chasing non stop unlimited growth (a know like cancer) thought they'd have a forever source of customers

[Bebu sa Ware]

Self Inflicted

"look at how they're suddenly crying that the chinese population is predicted to 1/2 & that they only buy locally built products now after being trained by european and US companies who, chasing non stop unlimited growth (a know like cancer) thought they'd have a forever source of customers"

In a sense capital moving to less developed regions causes its own demise by developing industrial and post industrial production thereby facilitating rapid urbanisation and, possibly unintentionally, raising levels of literacy and education generally, which uncontroversially, lead to a rapid decline in birth rates.

Rather spectacularly in China aided by the their historical one child policy. The subcontinent might not be too far behind.

Where next ? Latin America ? Africa ? Antarctica with AI augmented penguins ?

In the meantime nations like the UK are reducing their customer base through the systematic pauperization of a great swath of their population.

[munnoch]

Yeah but most people would give up food and warmth before their mobile...

If and when people become that price sensitive then you set up an MVNO offering much the same service at a cheaper price point. Throw in a few freebies like unlimited Whatsapp to differentiate yourself from all the other providers.

The secret of commerce isn't selling the most at the highest possible price point, its selling at ALL possible price points to the full spectrum of potential customers. Make each of them think they are on a special rate (cheap as chips or reassuringly expensive) but its essentially the same product with a bit of window dressing each time. Car manufacturers are masters of this.

[frankyunderwood123]

As part of our ambition to build the UK's best network…

… we are offshoring jobs to India.

A huge corporate I worked for did something similar and used weasel words to justify it.

Their words were along the lines of bringing parity to various teams.

That UK hires needed to be balanced out with hires from India.

That was two years back.

It seems parity hasn’t yet been reached, but I now know the end game.

It means management roles remain in the UK , but eventually all developer roles get offshored to India.

In fairness there’s no redundancies, instead when a UK dev leaves or is promoted to a manager, the role is back filled with a chennai dev.

[xyz123]

someone stole my mobile number without a pac code (so was inside job by an employee as only they can do this).

They ordered an iphone 17 to an address hundreds of miles away. I had the entire address/name etc. Three refused to investigate.

Online I was able to find out the name of a three employee and their address was the same one the iphone went to.

Three LITERALLY asked me if I wouldn't mind just "paying the £600 for the fraudulent phone" because it would "make the paperwork easier for three"

Dropped them like a mouldy potato

[xyz123]

BOTH sides signed a legally binding contract stating not a single person would be made redundant from either company and ZERO jobs would be shipped overseas.

That turned out to be a criminal fraudulent barefaced LIE that both companies will bribe their way out of.

Never using vodafone OR three ever again. They're basically India-based, land of scams and fraud now.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately they didn't. The commitment covers network build, customer tariffs and wholesale rates.

Jobs don't even get a mention.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67e6630b87cebda7c4ca4d0c/Final_undertakings.pdf

(jobs were frequently mentioned in the PR campaign, but that's not binding)

[Ashto5]

Vote with your wallet

The quickest and best thing is to vote with your wallet

Take all your business elsewhere just like they did

Who will pay the tax for those lost jobs ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Par for the course for Vodafone

I quit Vodafone several years ago after I tried to change from “pay as you go” to a contract and I received a query email from Vodafone regarding a small detail in which they included all my customer details in an unencrypted email.

I immediately complained, and it turned out that part of the service had been outsourced to Egypt, and I got a call from an Egyptian manager who flatly refused to believe sending a customers name, address, dob and full bank account details unencrypted in an email constituted any kind of security risk, and it ended in a shouting match (very professional)

So I complained directly to Vodafone UK, and they sided with Egypt, so I then complained to the Information Commissioners office who upheld my complaint.

Cue apology letter from Vodafone apologising profusely, saying staff would be retrained, lessons had been learned etc..

I had already cancelled my Vodafone account and moved to EE the day after talking to the Egyptian manager, I had been with Vodafone pretty much from the beginning of their UK commercial service.

[shawn.grinter]

Create Job

“The merger was supposed to create jobs”….. since from for ever did a merger create jobs, fe-duplication of functions alone defy this narrative let alone other consolidations. In the current market worldwide unless you make artillery shells you’re pretty much stuffed.

[harrys]

c'mon farage .....

Get it sorted

Should be outsourcing to france

[AZ457TE834NE92WR456]

Here's one - instead of crying about it, why dont you do something about it.

A) Data Sovereignty laws - I actually kindof doubt that the information being processed by our erstwhile subcontinent friends is legally *ALLOWED* to be processed by them. Find out - challenge it.

B) Iain Milligan is a spiv. Comes from the retail sector. I've sat in loads of meetings with him. Arch politically savvy hatchet man.

C) Your network performance will be hammered. Its the Ericsson two-step. Your hand performance to Ericsson and Ericsson hands it to EGI (Ericsson India). They use 15 year old tools to monitor performance, will update each ticket with 50 pieces of nonsense for every one actual update. KPIs met - we're keeping those tickets updated!!

D) I'm off to EE. I have been a loyal vodafone customer for years as I used to work for them. I remember how bad they used to be - 2014 or so. Back when they had outsourced everything. They insourced and things went better. And now its back to outsourcing.

E) Sad.

[Anonymous Coward]

India

Why wasnt this mentioned when 3 and vodaphone formed together so now all uk based workers now being made redundant so they can send all calls to India and make more money and more scams from India going to be from 3 and Vodafone network do t they know 100% of scam callers are from India?

[fred_flinstone]

Where is the REGulator when you need one? (see what I did there!)

Puns aside, this is a clear case of a weak regulator.

IF (you want to operate in the UK)

THEN (ALL the jobs have to be in the UK)

ELSE (No operator Licence)

ENDIF

Simples.