Microsoft gives Windows 11 a fresh Start – here's how to get it

Four years after the debut of Windows 11, Microsoft has finally fixed one of the biggest problems with its Start menu: The need to click the “All” button to view a complete list of all of your apps. A new Start menu, which gives you three different ways to view all installed programs without that extra click, is slowly rolling …

[elDog]

And somehow Micro$oft marketing will make this a wonderful new feature

When that same marketing team has drug the Windows desktop into the ditch since Windows 7. They should be congratulated for making a lot of customers look for another platform.

[that one in the corner]

Re: And somehow Micro$oft marketing will make this a wonderful new feature

Look on the bright side.

In a couple more iterations, all the marketeers who remember Win'7 will have left and then the concept of a clean, simple UI will be introduced and hailed as The Great New Idea. With any luck, an old lag in the dev team will dig up the repo and get it going again.

Always remember the words from the great sage:

There will one day be lemon-soaked paper napkins. ‘Till then, there will be a short delay. Please return to your seats.

[Roland6]

Re: And somehow Micro$oft marketing will make this a wonderful new feature

>” With any luck, an old lag in the dev team will dig up the repo and get it going again.”

It will reappear due to an AI hallucination, only to be modified in the next release…

[Just A Quick Comment]

Wow! I'm so glad I've not got Win 11. I'm on Win 10, with the extended updates thingie, and I have a proper start menu.

[MyffyW]

Abandoned the start menu years ago as it got crapper with each iteration.

Windows + Q and then type what I'm after is far quicker.

[The value of my advice can go down as well as up. Some unsettling of contents may have occurred in transit]

[that one in the corner]

> Windows + Q and then type what I'm after is far quicker

Command lines for the win!

[hoola]

The trouble with that is the unless you prevent it searching the web you are stuck with all sorts of crap still.

On a personal device you can fix this but if it is a corporate managed device you are pissing in the wind to get IT to understand how bad this,

I drives me nuts that we get all this training and endless email about security etc but the very tool we are lumbered with just searches the web. That it can be blocked but these morons appear incapable of implementing it beggar's belief. Sadly this is symptomatic of much end user computing at a corporate level.

[MyffyW]

Worked in a few different industries this past decade and their EUC teams all seemed quite capable of setting this where necessary :-)

[Red Ted]

App search

My main gripe is that the app name search is rubbish.

If I type "cube" it suggests a few random files with cube in the name, but not the "STM32CubeMX" application that's installed on the machine. To find that I have to remember that it starts "STM..." and then it finds it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Win-Q then typing different from just Win and then typing? Or is it different on 10? (I'm guessing they are thinking "Q kind of looks like a magnifying glass")

[Havin_it]

Always assumed it was for "Query" but I like yours better, you've updated my headcanon ;)

[Anonymous Coward]

Hold that thar pig steady

I got me some real purty lipstick fer it.

<Scrabble Scrabble>

Tarnation, it's still a piggie. Hmmm, kinda purty though.

Hey, what you lookin' at me like that for, Jethro,?

[David 132]

Re: Hold that thar pig steady

"Hey, what you lookin' at me like that for, Jethro,?"

"Well fer shore y'did a real nice job with that thur lipstick, Cletus, but I reckon it was s'posed to go on the oinky end of the pig..."

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Hold that thar pig steady

"Hey, what you lookin' at me like that for, Jethro,?"

"Uncle Jed, aint cousin Ellie purty enough ?"

"Hell no, Jethro! Ellie's growed and runs too fast."

[Fr. Ted Crilly]

Re: Hold that thar pig steady

"He got a real purty mouth ain’t he"

[MyffyW]

Shudder

Well that's four people I'm not going hiking with :-)

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Recommened section

The new Start menu offers the ability to turn off the Recommended section.

Why would I want a Recommened section at all? I use the bloody thing to do certain tasks, as and when I decide - I don't want a stupid algorithm second guessing or acting on whatever agenda Satya and his minions think I should be following.

Just restore the Windows 7 or 10 Start Menu and re-direct the the whole Windows 11 "UX" team to doing something useful like reverting Notepad to a basic text editor that it was, with a menu that could be operated via the keyboard.

[Dan 55]

Re: Recommened section

If you uninstall the new Notepad, you get the old-ish one back, but you'll have to pin Notepad.exe to the start menu yourself.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Recommened section

Thanks. Will try that

[joed]

Re: Recommened section

This only sort of work. MS makes restoring good old apps as difficult as changing default apps

[blu3b3rry]

Re: Recommened section

And yet it's still impossible to move the fucking taskbar to where I want it to go, not where M$'s designers think it should be!

Retrobar and Classic Shell go some way to fixing that issue, but I've yet to figure out how to get both playing nicely together in a stable fashion with a vertical taskbar.

The start menu tends to jump off the top of the screen every few clicks and it's more than a little janky....

[hoola]

Re: Recommened section

Again that is all fine if you have the access to install them.

Same with StarDock Start 11. That is also excellent although paid.

[ChrisElvidge]

Re: Recommened section

Start11 + ExplorerPatcher - not recommended by Stardock, but they would wouldn't they) produces a menu sufficiently close to Win10 + Start10 for me. Add folders to TaskBar.

[TVU]

Re: Recommened section

This is where third party softwares are useful, such as Start 11 and StartAllBack, to replace the default kludge interface.

[My other car WAS an IAV Stryker]

Re: Recommened section

I don't like how this methods require turning off the Recent items -- in addition to Recommendations -- because it doesn't affect only the Start Menu but also the "Jump Lists" (Taskbar > right click on any app) and also within File Explorer. I use the Jump Lists quite frequently and they're essentially the only way to pin items to said lists. Recent items for Jump Lists (Taskbar) should be a Taskbar setting, not directly tied to a Start Menu setting.

But, then again, I don't like Win11 on the whole -- it's my work laptop and forced onto me, probably for good reasons.

(Plus, a potential bug: I turned Recent items off just to verify my claims, then back on, and the previous lists were deleted and not coming back. Good thing I added some necessary pins just yesterday.)

[ThatOne]

Re: Recommened section

> Why would I want a Recommened section at all?

It's not all about you...

Actually, on Windows nothing is about you, and the "Recommended" section is where they can display their ads in.

(Speaking of which, I'm surprised they didn't remove the "Pinned" part, to give the "Recommendations" more room... Surely an error they will fix eventually.)

[Annihilator]

Re: Recommened section

Know what's infuriating? Currently I have the recommended section turned off in the settings. Guess what I see in the start menu now.

A recommended heading, underneath which is says "to show your recent files and new apps, turn them on in settings <link to settings>"

[ecarlseen]

Microsoft loves constant change for the sake of change...

...and if this year's change subtracts value and makes things worse then, oh well, it's more change!

Recently, I was looking back on the first version of Apple OS X (now macOS) released about 20 years ago. Settings management has been completely remade (to make it consistent with IOS / iPadOS) and scrollbars are hidden by default (because every company has to do at least one outrageously stupid thing), but other than that most of the core UI functionality is more or less the same. The presentation is much fancier (especially with Tahoe and Liquid Glass) and the applications themselves have evolved a great deal, but on a UI level it would take almost no effort for a person to transition from the first release of OS X to macOS 26. Menus work the same way, applications are in the same place, etc. Well, as long as you un-hide the scrollbars.

There's nothing wrong with taking a solid interface design and just sticking with it.

[Pascal Monett]

Re: There's nothing wrong with taking a solid interface design and just sticking with it.

But if you do that, then all the kids in you Developer department have nothing to do but actually improve the functionality.

It's a lot easier to just shuffle around the stuff in the UI and pretend that you've done a days' work, right ?

And don't forget Dark Mode !

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Microsoft loves constant change for the sake of change...

Until Win10 MS pretty much behaved themselves with this sort of thing. Consoles were largely where you expected them, the long stablished conventions of use with right click context and the look and locationm of functions such as 'save' or 'rename' were also pretty much what they have always been.

The UX rot started with W10 and has just gone wild with W11. Not only has everything moved, changed colour or style but basic norms on context right click seem to change on a daily basis.

There is no reason other than some psychotic drive to demonstrate change and alleged improvement when the truth is that these functions had really evolved quite quickly to the optimal state for the system they were within.

There is a reason something like a hammer or a wheel has not really changed too much since inception, there is nowhere to improve it to. Other than tiny incremental improvements in materials and specificity.

[ecarlseen]

Re: Microsoft loves constant change for the sake of change...

I understand if the PTSD is preventing you from remembering Windows 8.

[Yes Me]

I have a question

Windows 11? Is that some kind of operating system?

[Pascal Monett]

Re: I have a question

No. It's an ad platform for Borkzilla products.

[Dan 55]

Re: I have a question

No, it's a data collection and advertising delivery mechanism.

[MyffyW]

Re: I have a question

No - it's one half of a Sunday league results table:

Fulchester Rovers 0 - Borcester Windows 11

[Smartypantz]

Re: I have a question

Not any longer. Now it's an advertising platform/AI feeder

[Sorry that handle is already taken.]

The problem

Isn't the major problem with the Windows 11 start menu that it isn't the Windows 7 start menu?

[The Travelling Dangleberries]

Re: The problem

Isn't the major problem with the Windows 11 start menu that it isn't the XFCE Applications menu?

FTFY?

[Rich 2]

Re: The problem

What’s an XFCE application menu? I use i3. It has no menus at all

[MyffyW]

Re: The problem

I think coming down from the trees may have been the start of things going wrong.

[LBJsPNS]

Re: The problem

Yah, talking monkeys don't seem to have been the best idea.

[Roland6]

Re: The problem

I’d be happy with a W2K start menu…

[Sorry that handle is already taken.]

Re: The problem

That was also a good one. To be fair, I was taking a punt on it being Windows 7. I use Classic/OpenShell...

[Anonymous Coward]

Start me up

And that’s just the beginning of it…

[David 132]

Re: Start me up

As I've observed before, Start Me Up was an inspired choice of theme-music for the Windows 95 launch, if only for the line of the lyrics they inexplicably didn't use: "You make a grown man cry..."

And I guess a prescient nod to the power-management problems that plagued older versions of Windows, and continue to affect even the new ASUS Xbox Ally handheld... "If you start me up I'll never stop / I've been running hot..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Open-Shell ?

Open-Shell claims to support Win11.

Her indoors is easily confused by any changes to UI so I have used Classic Shell and Open Shell on her Windows PC over several Win versions just to keep things simple and looking the same. Currently on extended support Win10 (down from Win7 :)

Finally got her using a proper MUA on her tablet and PC (Betterbird) rather than GMail in a browser and resultant Google crap.

[LenG]

Start menu?

TBH I didn't even realise that windoze had one - I've been using my own cobbled together front end for so long I had completely lost track of what M$ was offering.

[Anonymous Coward]

Jump lists

Why are "recommended" and "Jump lists" on the same option? I want the jump lists so I can find what was editing in Word, but not the recommended start menu mess.

[Big_Boomer]

Open Shell

I've been using Classic Shell and more recently Open Shell for many years now. It means I get to have a stable menu layout how I want it. As others have said, since the abortion of a Start Menu introduced in Win8 MS seem to have completely lost the plot and are now desperately trying anything and everything. Their best bet would be to allow people to customise their Start Menu how THEY want it, rather than how some Marketing twonk wants you to see it. I use Open Shell with Win11 with no problems at all, but I don't use a top or side Taskbar so can't comment on those. I have a nice Win7 style Start Menu in a lairy lime-green with what I want, where I want it.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Screenshot of "List" view, please

Would @Avram Piltch be so kind to add a "List View" screen shot? I would love to know how close it looks to Windows 10 and previous OSes - maybe... maybe it is... even... hierarchical????

[ThatOne]

Re: Screenshot of "List" view, please

> maybe it is... even... hierarchical????

Aw, come on, that would be way too complicated, that's hardcore techie stuff you're talking about...

_/s

[Joe W]

Can I group Icons? Like, when I have several systems I work on remotely (like Windows terminal servers)? No? I mean, so I know which version of a program sits where? Still no?

Thought so.

They can just... well, "suggestion involving sex and travel" (BOFH)

[AlanSh]

I use

Open Shell and Explorer Patcher to give me the start menu and task bar that I am used to. It also patches File Explorer to bring back the old style and can remove the second click when you right click a file to perform operations. [Those that know, will know]

Alan

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they got W11 working to be able to partition and format a USB stick yet?

That might be super advanced and tricky but at the moment I have to default to my linux desktop to do this Chad level task.

Oh and can I move the start bar to the left or right of the screen yet like I could in W98? again super advanced and tricky I know but widescreens are pretty common now and there is more screen real estate on the left and right.

Ok thanks...

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Danger!

Danger UXB - Unexploded Bomb

Danger UXT - (Microsoft) User Experience Team "at work"

[Little Mouse]

Re: Danger!

Unexploded Team?

[Dale 3]

Start11

Too late. I'm sticking with Start11.

[GNU Enjoyer]

Wow, that's a terrible interface

It doesn't compare to just pressing the program execution shortcut (can be the super key) and typing in the name of the program you want to run, or even xfce4's applications menu (no settings change is required to group the applications - those are automatically grouped).

[Paul Herber]

I really like that category view. All that's needed now is for each category to be in its own window. Oooh, hello Win 3.1 Program Manager, welcome back!

[Anonymous Coward]

A complete list of all of your Microsoft apps

Doesn't list any third party apps.

[ThatOne]

Re: A complete list of all of your Microsoft apps

You're not supposed to have any, so why list them?

[Smartypantz]

1UP

My start menu is called 'ls -l /usr/bin'

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: 1UP

Well, in reality it is (incomplete)...

ls -la /sbin

ls -la /bin

ls -la /usr/sbin

ls -la /usr/bin

ls -la /usr/local/sbin

ls -la /usr/local/bin

ls -la /opt

ls -la /opt/<whateversoftware>/bin

Older unix systems put binaries in /etc and various other "should not be there" places too.

Newer systems started to use ~/bin too to circumvent some default restrictions to "install" any software the user want, or NOT want in case of attacks. (same shit as on Windows, with %localappdata%, I hate that style on both except for MY OWN WRITTEN stuff). And on both OS-es I cannot restrict +x on files in the user profile any more (or .exe .com .bat .ps1 .vbs on %userprofile%)

Which is why "man which" got so important. (Windows variant: "where")

[that one in the corner]

Re: 1UP

> Which is why "man which" got so important

That is one of the full 12" sandwiches, yes? Enough calories to keep you going right to the end of the search for the binary you were after.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: 1UP

Image I'd written "woman which" <insert <edit>in</edit>appropriate sexist jokes here>

[TheProf]

Still waiting for....

I'm still waiting for Microsoft to release an update for my Windows 11 laptop. (i5 gen 11)

Some sort of snafu concerning Intel drivers means I remain on 23H2. That was installed on 08/02/2024.

Funny thing is my old Dell i7 gen 2 machine is quite happy running Windows 11 pro with all the gubbins. (After a bit of jiggery-pokery to get around the security features.)