back to article Australia sues Microsoft for misleading M365 users about Copilot subscription options

Australia’s Competition & Consumer Commission on Monday commenced legal proceedings against Microsoft for allegedly misleading users of its Microsoft 365 bundle. The consumer protection agency alleges that Redmond’s advice to users of Microsoft 365 Personal and Family plans with auto-renewal was that “to maintain their …

  1. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Microsoft

    A product that customers need to be tricked into paying for is not a good product.

    ...the [Australian] federal government on Monday announced it would not create an exemption in local copyright law that would allow AI companies to scrape content for free to use for training their models. Attorney general Michelle Rowland said Australian creators deserve copyright protection.
    This does require scrutiny but... could it be? A win?! Next we need to ensure that LLM output won't enjoy copyright protection in Australia.

    Shout out to the esteemed Cathy Wilcox.

    1. Sampler

      Re: Microsoft

      Yeah, there's nothing that underscores confidence more in a product than a plan to hoodwink customers in to paying for it...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft

        AU getting on the tits of major US businesses (MS and AI generally) ?

        I can see some of Trump's tariff love heading in our direction. I guess you don't know he cares until he screws you.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Microsoft

          Morgan Freeman was once asked , How do we stop racism, His reply was Stop talking about it.

          Maybe the same lesson could be applied here about Trump.

          It would greatly help everyone if we started to concentrate our thoughts on actual issues.

          1. Like a badger Silver badge

            Re: Microsoft

            Sadly Trump is an issue in himself.

      2. Daniel M

        Re: Microsoft

        They are only following in the footsteps of the grand tradition of telephony and cable companies, and insurance companies, too!

        Of course your bills are higher this year! Yes, we will lower them if you call and threaten to cancel; we'll transfer you to our Customer Retention Office, where, if you plead hard enough, you'll get ONE MORE YEAR (or, in our case, six months) of "discounted" prices -- and you'll be glad of it!

        This is AT&T, and why I got rid of it.

    2. Diogenes

      Re: Microsoft

      I had no problem finding the classic plan. It was offered when I started cancelling my subscription.

      1. xanadu42

        Re: Microsoft

        The problem is with the email that was sent to the person paying the subscription for MS 365...

        This email, which I first saw about six months ago, mentioned nothing about the current version of MS 365 being available without CoPilot AND without a fee increase. Anyone reading this email would have no idea that they could keep their current subscription unchanged (AND for the same fee) and would likely assume that they have to live with the increased fee...

        The fact that you could ONLY find out about using MS 365 without CoPilot when you elected to cancel the subscription is a problem... Especially for the average user of MS 365 (Personal and Family) who (based on my clients so affected) had no idea they they could even "manage" their subscription...

        1. Phil Kingston

          Re: Microsoft

          misleading sales tactics, or administrative incompetence? neither would raise many eyebrows. either will see quite a fine levied.

        2. Donchik

          Re: Microsoft FAS!

          I have been fortunate in that I get my family package at a small discount due to my employer. Home use package basically.

          When this Copilot crap appeared, I was also given the Zero option to accept the new service or cancel!

          When I complained I was reluctantly offered the classic plan, but for More than I was paying!

          Argument was that the classic plan was exempt from the Home use discount!

          Fucking Abysmal Service!

      2. Vestas

        Re: Microsoft

        ...and even with the "Classic" plan (which I have) MS are continually trying to get me to use their copilot crap.

        I'm cancelling it next time renewal comes around - renting a VPS for backups is cheaper and LibreOffice will do fine.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Microsoft

        Yes, but that is the point - it wasn't mentioned as an option until you actually started the cancellation process.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    AI, huh!

    AI h'uh

    Yeah!

    What is it good for?

    Absolutely (nothin) uh-huh, uh-huh

  3. Sleep deprived

    A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

    You can get a perpetual LibreOffice licence for free and devoid of any Copilot annoyance.

    1. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

      As long as you don't mind being at the mercy of developers with whom you have no contractual relationship and who can therefore change things or withdraw support whenever they feel like it. I use LibreOffice myself, but I don't kid myself that it comes with any guarantees or long term stability.

      1. Mark #255

        Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

        Your first sentence applies equally to Office 362.5 (you've paid a subscription, not signed a contract).

        And of course, you could pay a developer to modify LO, if it was that important to you.

        1. Martin M

          Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

          A contract will exist with Microsoft, formed by a payment and a click wrap - offer, acceptance, consideration (payment). However, it's not good for the consumer - section 7c of the Microsoft Services Agreement covering Microsoft 365 Home (for US) states:

          "Additionally, there may be times when we need to remove or change features or functionality of the Service"

          and you have to take the forced update when this happens (7b) or lose access completely:

          "Sometimes you will need software updates to keep using the Services. We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes. You may also be required to update the software to continue using the Services"

          With LibreOffice, the Mozilla Public License should also serve as an enforceable contract, as determined by courts for similar OSS licenses. It grants rights (offer) and there is acceptance of obligations and consideration via conduct (use of the software). Once you've downloaded it, as noted above the rights to use granted under the license are perpetual. At worst you have to use an older version if features you need are removed and you don't have the expertise to fork (of course most users won't).

          In which case are you more "at mercy of the developers"?

          (The Microsoft UK terms are a bit better ... Microsoft have to carry on offering features "if feasible" or unless "the technology advances")

      2. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

        > As long as you don't mind being at the mercy of developers with whom you have no contractual relationship and who can therefore change things or withdraw support whenever they feel like it

        Ribbon.

        > ... or withdraw support whenever they feel like it

        Just where to start with that one? Any product by any provider, frankly. At least with LibreOffice, if it *really* meant that much to you, you can always pay any proficient programmer(s) to sit down and learn the code then modify it to your needs.

        (Yes, I *know* I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been said to you, but it really seems that we have to keep pounding this into your head; one day, it'll stick in there, but in the meantime...)

      3. GNU Enjoyer
        Angel

        Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

        LibreOffice is free software, thus the developers cannot stop you from using a preferred version or stop any business or individual from offering continued support for that version.

        If the developers do something that is unacceptable, there also the option to fork the project and continue support.

        LibreOffice does have guaranteed long term support for the ODF format and so far updates have only improved the Microsoft Office XML (MOX) support (ironically that is not what microsoft office offers).

        Despite the fortune it costs to access microsoft office, it doesn't come with any guarantees or any stability at all - documents are not guaranteed to render the same on different computers even with the same version (even on the same computer the page layout can change depending on what printer is set).

    2. ComicalEngineer Silver badge

      Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

      I've been using Open/Libre Office for 20+ years without any significant issues.

      For example no-one suddenly changed the complete interface of the software from menu to ribbon (I detest the ribbon, especally when using a small laptop on the move).

      For the type of reports I write LO is actually better than MS Word and produces PDFs that are up to 20% smaller and load faster.

      I'm confident that LO will only stop working when my computer breaks.

      Even if my computer does break, I can re-load LO for free. And it won't send telemetry beck to the supplier.

      1. GNU Enjoyer
        Angel

        Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

        LibreOffice is not merely gratis - it is free software; https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

      2. hedgie

        Re: A special offer for deceived Office 365 customers

        At least with LO Writer, most of the problems (compatibility and the like) are deliberately created by M$ to force vendor lock-in. Unfortunately, the issues that creates are real sometimes. And a lot of heavy spreadsheet users are dependent on Excel macros. While personally, LO or Apple's Pages are more than sufficient for my needs,[1] especially since I don't mess with spreadsheets, but too many people are forced to use Orifice because of bosses, clients, colleagues, and so on. Google Docs have made far more of a dent into that monopoly than LO has, and I hate that it's so. Unless either public agencies start moving more towards LO, and sticking with it, any progress is going to be pretty slow unless there is serious regulatory action.

        [1] I tend to use LaTeX for actually creating documents, and only use a word processor to edit something someone else sent.

  4. alain williams Silver badge

    Fourth option not mentioned

    LibreOffice, even cheaper and keeps on working even when someone screws the Microsoft cloud.

  5. Not Yb Silver badge
    Alert

    I suspect the main reason AliBaba stopped VMWare support was...

    the new, and increasing cost of licensing VMWare.

  6. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "Microsoft deliberately omitted reference to the Classic plans"

    Well duh, that's how you get people onboard with something they couldn't care less about.

    Also, you gotta love the "Consumer trust and transparency are top priorities for Microsoft " bit.

    Yes officer, I recognize that I was doing 100km/h in a 30km/h zone, but you see, now that you caught me, I would like you to acknowledge that respect of the law and of my fellow citizen are my top priorities. Now. Since you arrested me. What ? Prison ? Come on, I said something nice, didn't I ?

  7. xyz Silver badge

    Consumer trust and transparency are top priorities

    My arse

    1. Phil Kingston
      Meh

      Re: Consumer trust and transparency are top priorities

      I asked CoPilot to try and make sense of it for you. I don't think it's changed much.

      Me: Could you rewrite this to seem less slimy and ai-ish? "Consumer trust and transparency are top priorities for Microsoft, and we are reviewing the ACCC's claim in detail. We remain committed to working constructively with the regulator and ensuring our practices meet all legal and ethical standards."

      CoPilot (included with your subscription): Rewrites

      We take consumer trust and transparency seriously and are carefully reviewing the ACCC’s claim. We will cooperate with the regulator and ensure our practices align with legal and ethical standards.

      Consumer trust and transparency matter to us. We are reviewing the ACCC’s claim and will work with the regulator to ensure our practices comply with all legal and ethical requirements.

      We value consumer trust and are examining the ACCC’s claim in detail. We will engage constructively with the regulator and ensure our practices meet legal and ethical obligations.

      Protecting consumer trust is a priority. We are reviewing the ACCC’s claim and will work with the regulator to ensure our practices follow applicable laws and ethical guidelines.

      1. blu3b3rry

        Re: Consumer trust and transparency are top priorities

        They probably had ClippyPilot write the response in the first place. With all the redundancies that are going on at M$, do we actually know if there are any human employees left apart from Satya Nadella a a few bits of scattered manglement?

  8. that one in the corner Silver badge

    How small a target will India aim at?

    > requiring social media companies and other online publishers to detect and label AI-generated content.

    Detecting this generated content is decidedly non-trivial, especially when you need to do it at scale: even "just" creating an automated system that counts the number of fingers in the picture, let alone one that detects all the continuity errors in a video clip. Written material is no easier: many human posts suffer from wandering attention spans, which is why the custard yesterday was a bit lumpy.

    And as soon as any such system is built it can be attached into the training feedback loop and ta-da, indetectable generated content (the only barrier at this point is cost). You *can* apply the same technique to detectors, but that will always be on the losing side (you can't feed it known-generated-tags until you *know* it *was* generated and in the lag between getting hold of GuffGPT v19.7 and training to detect it, the election is over, the social media posts are history).

    There is the option of gleefully pointing at Big Social Media and enjoying the idea that they'll have to bear the massive costs of attempting this impossible task India has set them. But they also have Big Lawyer slavering to take the dosh and tie up the courts.

    Which leaves the question: will India aim at the small fry, say, anyone running a Mastodon instance? You know, all the social media *other* than the big names?

    As much as we want to have AI guff labelled, this kind of law-making, putting the onus on the publishers, can it ever have any effect other than strengthening the grip of the big name players and driving out any upstart alternatives?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How small a target will India aim at?

      Well.... you have to use AI. It's a spiralling nightmare of AI chasing AI, building larger and more powerful data centres so that the AI can be better, and then trained better to detect, using more power, and making Nvidea even richer, with no gain for humanity as a whole.

    2. kshaeta

      Re: How small a target will India aim at?

      Need AI to find the AI generated images. This will create the need for more powerful AI, to find the AI. This will make the AI generation better and less easy to discern.

      The AI then becomes more powerful to find the enhance AI generation.

      AI companies get better, buy more GPU's.

      Nvidea gets richer.

      Jensen Huang buys six new leather coats.

  9. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck

    India sure does try to "demand" a lot from international companies that aren't based in India.

    I think India can kiss the communities ass and set up their own "great firewall" if they have an issue with the world's internet.

  10. Reginald O.

    Pay for mass surveillance spyware...?

    Bold for sure.

    Don't allow opt-out? Daring!

    Will the Big Lie work, eventually?

    Pretty sure it will.

    Windows is positioning itself

    to be the best Big Bro App ever.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So now Windows users will be expected to pay for the privilege of handing all their data over to Microsoft ? Glad I dumped W10 for linux last week.

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