Amazon's AI specs aim to stop delivery drivers getting lost between van and porch

Amazon is testing AI-powered smart glasses to help its drivers get from their vans to customers' doorsteps. The smart specs combine mounted cameras with computer vision and what Amazon calls "AI-powered sensing capabilities," which project turn-by-turn directions and delivery instructions directly into the driver's field of …

[A_O_Rourke]

Delivery Instructions.....

You mean like "Sneak past the Ring doorbell, behind the car, dump the package behind the bins and then Leg it!"

[msknight]

Re: Delivery Instructions.....

More like what's happening here. "Instructions say the porch is white and you're leaving it at a black door. Err...." (electric shock follows) ... Amazon drivers seem incapable of delivering to the correct address around here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm...

Like I want amazon to video me opening my door when a delivery arrives.

Normally I'll always thank someone making delivery, but I might struggle to keep this for amazon ones if they get turned into glassholes.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Hmm...

This application of "smart glasses" is one of those that *could* be done well, and be extremely useful for everyone involved, including you, the customer. For example, a clear indication of whether the camera is on or not, and then only operating when it is needed, would both remove your loose dressing gown from being recorded and also improve battery life for the driver (and reduce the battery to the driver, given the worryingly large number of comments, including here, that claim "glassholes" would/should be met with immediate and direct violence).

On the other hand, of course, this - as with every corporate project - could be done badly and be extremely damaging to everyone involved. For example, continuous nagging to hurry up, directly into the driver's line of sight whilst they are negotiating the queue of cars and reckless pedestrians outside the local infants school.

I am pretty sure that I know which of those two El Reg readers believe is the more likely scenario. But I'd really, really *like* to be optimistic that sensible and useful applications of tech can actually occur.[1]

[1] if only because then there is the chance that practical versions of the hardware, without bling and frippery, may then actually be manufactured and I could then get hold of a pair. I've been waiting for, what, three decades now for sensible AR glasses, whilst I could still actually use them.

[Smeagolberg]

Re: Hmm...

"only operating when it is needed, would both remove your loose dressing gown from being recorded"

Remove it from being recorded? Like you can remove somnething from having been seen?

"But I'd really, really *like* to be optimistic that sensible and useful applications of tech can actually occur."

It wuld be interesting to have a hint about what corporate actions have led to people being optimistic in recent times.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Hmm...

> It wuld be interesting to have a hint about what corporate actions have led to people being optimistic in recent times.

None, obviously. I said I'd *like* to be optimistic, not that I am :-(

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: comments, including here, that claim "glassholes" would/should ...

... be met with immediate & direct violence"

As of now, no one here in *this* thread, including the AC above, has suggested the application of "immediate and direct violence". They might have elsewhere in other threads, I suppose, although I haven't noticed any such remarks recently. One would have to be a very particular sort of old fashioned to equate a lack of politeness with violence, I would think.

[UnknownUnknown]

Re: Hmm...

They still knock ?… how quaint.

If they do here it’s for a pin-code/high value for or age verify.

Mostly it’s dump the box on the doorstep and run. If you lucky the doorbell gets a single prod. If you unlucky - like Royal Mail- ram it through the letterbox in a square peg, round hole fashion.

[ComicalEngineer]

It'll still go to the wrong house ...

But you'll have a video of it going to the wrong house.

We've had parcels left in our porch (we're on the village High Street) for our next door neighbour three times in two weeks, despite having our house number clearly displayed.

Our local delivery drivers (strangely other than the lady who delivers for Evri) are known as "dumpit and scarper".

Quite often they don't even bother to knock.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: It'll still go to the wrong house ...

It's the opposite here. ALmost all deliveries are handle properly, *except* EVRI who mostly just leave it at the door and do not ring or knock. I know this because I've seen them arrive and leave while I'm standing at the window watching them!

[MikeAQuinn]

They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

The courier apps used to direct drivers to the next drop-off are often poorly implemented. This leads to drivers backtracking or driving past delivery locations, only to return hours later to drop off a single parcel, wasting time, fuel, and polluting the environment. Experienced couriers who recognise the addresses of regular customers navigate the poor-performing apps. Still, new drivers or those covering another patch can be put under undue pressure by the apps used for deliveries. There are significant improvements to be made to the current routings before addressing the van-to-porch issue, which will require much better data, as drop-off locations are often incorrect.

[Caver_Dave]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

I once came across two loose horses (after dark in the winter) on a single track country road and spent some time encouraging them back towards the field they had come from - approx 600yds - along the mile long road.

An Amazon driver (liveried van) drove down the road in the opposite direction blowing his horn at the horses in the road. I had to run past them and speak to the Amazon driver - inform him that what he was doing was incredibly dangerous and of the very short detour he had to make to get to the next village on another road. Now, I was on the wrong side of the horses, but the same side as my car and I suggested that he could follow me to the far end of the road, on the route I just described to him, from where he could carry on and I could get the horses going in the correct direction again.

He seemed to sit still for a while, so I set off on my own to the other end of the road (panicked horses are approaching a ton in weight and move at up to 30mph).

I approach the other end of the road to see the two horses at full gallop emerge onto an A road, pursued by the driver still blowing his horn. They then ran along it for a while between sparse cars (who stopped) and then departed on another lane.

I reported the driver to Amazon, and asked that I be informed of the action taken so that I could inform the horses owner.

I heard nothing back and have to assume that they ignored the report. The local NFU also asked Amazon and received a blank.

I asked the next Amazon driver I saw and he said that they could not deviate from their assigned route. I asked what he would do if a road was closed or a bridge was out and he just shrugged.

No common sense - driver or company!

[that one in the corner]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

I live in a horsey village.

My deepest thanks for your attempts and - well, even here I can't type what I'm thinking about the driver!

The sheer stupidity of it is that the only way a system like Amazon's, where he would be dunned for "disobeying" simply because he, oooh, obeyed the law (let alone common sense), can be challenged (and, in a world of miracles, changed) is for that driver to do the right thing, be backed up by your testimony (with pictures/video, as with two of you co-operating to corral the horses...) and that of the NFU and so forth. And what ought to be the driver's union backing him.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

To judge by the completely trashed state of Amazon's branded vans in this neck of the woods, any money they make selling stuff is completely lost on regular and costly bodywork repairs. The vans start life new, all painted up in Amazon livery. Its all downhill from there until the van looks like it's spent an hour in a two hundred foot high tumble dryer along with a truck load each of loose bricks and railway sleepers, at which point the local Ford dealer does the repairs. As soon as a van is handed back, it's been smacked into something hard within a day or two, and after a couple of months its got dents or gouges in every panel including places where you think "how the f*** did they manage that?", often with trim hanging loose and it has to go back to the smiling Ford dealer.

So I'd suggest Amazon need to do a few things before smart-glasses: Employ people who can drive sensibly and then allow them to do that, second ensure drivers have the time to drive safely and considerately.

[spacecadet66]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

I think you left out the part that closes the loop: van has to go back to the local Ford dealer, local Ford dealer gives local vandals their cut of the proceeds.

[Like a badger]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

Our local vandals aren't that entrepreneurial or competent. But it doesn't matter, Amazon's hiring process seems to be a single question "If we give you a small bit of money will you drive our van?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

This is why.

https://flex.amazon.co.uk/

The delivery market seems to have shifted to self/employed bring your own van or lease from us.

If you have the money to afford a new/decent van you’ll be working for DPD and be able to actually make a half/decent living.

[tiggity]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

I see a lot of "hire vans"* used for deliveries on roads near me (no idea if Amazon or other companies they are driving for) so, once hire costs (in addition to fuel) taken into account they cannot be earning much

* You can see the details of the van hire company emblazoned all over the van, often not particular local (e.g. van hire location about an hours drive away) - but no surprise given how the warehouses / delivery hubs are scattered.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

Just because the van is liveried doesn't mean that Amazon own or lease the van. Owner/drivers are a thing and they can earn more if they pay (often from their own pockets) to have the van liveried.

[MachDiamond]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

"Experienced couriers who recognise the addresses of regular customers navigate the poor-performing apps."

What, two weeks experience? It's a shit job with managers pushing to save another 5-10s on each delivery and heaven forbid you need an extra couple of minutes in the loo to "deliver a big package". Your supervisor will have a computer calling your mobe to demand answers.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: They'd be better off improving their delivery routing

Perhaps Amazon AI can aolve the Travelling Salesman problem.

[Doctor Syntax]

IME it's not Amazon drivers who have the worst problems finding the front door. It's another company whose name is a TLA that insists the GPS coordinates are at the centre of the postcode about 100 metres away round he corner, refused to update them when supplied and consequently has delivered to a house there.. It also seems to dictate - and possibly monitor - that divers park there, in the narrowest part of the lane so the alternative has been a driver leaving his van there to walk the rest of the way.

Amazon's problem is dropping off only part of the delivery or possibly none at all and then getting thoroughly confused as to how to deal with it. I don't suppose AI would help with the first part of that but would certainly heap on more confusion.

[RockBurner]

Post-code GPS coords

The problem there is not the drivers', it's the company itself using the Post-Office database for deliveries, which (if memory serves) does indeed not go down any closer geo-spatially than post-code centreoid lat/longs. Or perhaps they're just still using an old version of the db they pinched 10 years ago.... There are other, better, (more expensive to access) data sources for postal address geo-locations.

Of course it does help when your address is actually contained within those databases.... Mine doesn't seem to be in a rather large number of them (next door is though!)

[TeeCee]

Re: Post-code GPS coords

Actually, the post office database is highly granular and updated by posties. The snag here is it's aimed at giving you the best access while on foot, which sometimes differs considerably to the closest you can get a van.

My favourite cockup though came from a company who decided to address the problem by moving to What Three Words and capturing the location themselves. It turned out that customers were not in the habit of booking a delivery while standing in the best place to park a van...

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Post-code GPS coords

Yeah, I get that problem with some delivery companies. The front, named street on the address was pedestrian about 30 years ago. The "back lane" has a different name which they can drive down, one way, with no entry signs at the bottom. But so many still drive up the street against the legally placed no entry signs to make a delivery.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Post-code GPS coords

"The problem there is not the drivers', it's the company itself using the Post-Office database for deliveries, which (if memory serves) does indeed not go down any closer geo-spatially than post-code centroid lat/longs."

Absolutely this. It's the company that refuses to accept correct coordinates.

In our case it's complicated by the fact that few houses in the lane have numbers and that the sequence of numbers is not entirely rational - 1 to 4 are a row on one side, half way alone, 1A & 1B are on the other side, back at the start. The rest have names, usually conspicuously displayed. One neighbour, by some reckoning system decided his must be no 19 so renamed his house "Nineteen".

If offered the choice I specify Royal Mail. The posties not only know where we live, they also know where our daughter lives and have delivered something of ours there for some good reason I can't now recall. They probably know about SWMBO's sister as well.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Post-code GPS coords

the Post-Office database for deliveries, which (if memory serves) does indeed not go down any closer geo-spatially than post-code centreoid lat/longs.

Postcodes originally identified locations down to posties' rounds. Today, postcode + house name/number will uniquely identify your front door.

[that one in the corner]

> Amazon's problem is dropping off only part of the delivery or possibly none at all and then getting thoroughly confused as to how to deal with it. I don't suppose AI would help with the first part of that

>> helping them with everything from finding the right parcel in the van

If the camera spots the QR codes and the display highlights the correct ones, with a simple count of "2 out of 4 boxes found so far"...

[that one in the corner]

Not that any of that requires "AI", of course (ML vision helps with the QR codes, especially for picking out partials and prompting for realignment - i.e. "joggle that around a bit, mate" - but we all know that isn't what is being referred to).

Whoops, silly me, vibe coding, how could I forget. And probably faked imagery in the proposal meetings, AI summarised Requirement Specs (ho, ho, good joke there, Mostin) etc.

[Doctor Syntax]

They must be scanning the codes already in order to email confirmation of delivery.

It would be very possible for a simple count of "2 out of 4 boxes found so far" to be displayed already. If it is the driver ignores it.

Currently they have no appropriate error handling to cover an expected code being missed. The consequence is that very strange things happen when the expected doesn't. I very much doubt that another scan will make any difference whatsoever except throwing a few AI hallucinations into the mix alongside the existing ones.

They could provide the driver with the destinations one at a time and only provide the next after the delivery has been completed. That would prevent the driver ignoring a warning. Of course there will be occasions when, for one reason or another, the delivery can't be completed and that would only provide them with more opportunities for bizarre failure modes.

[Electronics'R'Us]

Post codes

I live in a rural area, just outside the village proper.

My postcode covers an area of perhaps 0.7 miles by 0.4 miles. The centroid (depending on which map service you use) will either put you in the village to the west (which is not in this postcode at all) or close to 0.5 mile to the east as I am on the western edge of the postcode.

Many have the times been where a delivery driver cannot find my location (it is also not visible from the country lane until you are on top of it).

Even the energy company was sending my initial bills to the wrong postcode when I moved in.

As far as I can discern, postcodes are based on a number of dwellings.

[RockBurner]

Re: Post codes

"... As far as I can discern, postcodes are based on a number of dwellings ..."

(this is from memory, I've not used the PO db for a few years)...

it's ... "something like that".

In towns & cities a post-code is often (but not always), a "street", ie a vaguely sensible collection of address that have some sort of connection - obviously real-life is not neat and tidy so this is only really a "guideline" in practise.

Out in the countryside the post-code defined areas (yes, they're geo-spatial areas with boundaries) are a bit more random, so some might contain 20+ dwellings, some more, some much less (our one has 4 dwellings, but 6 addresses (iirc) - because one of them is a farm with multiple out-buildings and businesses onsite). The centroid of the area is located about 100metres from my dwelling, luckily in site of my gate, but if you're at the post-code centreoid you can't see my house! (the gate itself is mostly hidden in hedging).

Also - again, if memory serves, the PO used to licence the geo-information at different granularity levels for different prices, so it was very possible for cheapskate companies to buy lower-granularity information depending on their use case, or parsimoniousness.

[Spanners]

"invalid address"

Despite getting things delivered to my place of work, a hospital, I had delivery failures because i gave a non-existent address. Once or twice, because we were "closed"! They had started to ignore the delivery address when they gave us a set of lockers.

How does one ignore a delivery address? Either walk into the hospital and give it to a random uniformed person or make a trip hazard by leaving it in the front doorway.

I think the lockers got one failure because they pretended we were closed.

It's a hospital! We never close! There are big road signs with an H for us.

Just retired so we'll see how it goes...

[Helcat]

Could be useful tech...

Now, I'm not hopeful for Amazon's use of this tech, but I can see some serious benefits of this tech - in the right hands.

Okay, mine are such a pair, but only when I'm on duty as a volunteer first responder. And even then, we might not need them that often. Flip side: They could help save lives.

Yes, I've been looking into VR glasses - been trying to find any that I can confirm work with navigation software / GPS, and the camera would be helpful for instances where we need additional support from a more senior medic/HCP. I can also see this kind of tech helping ambulance and fire fighters, but mostly it's where we've a map to work from that doesn't always match to reality (let alone what we can actually see). The number of times organisers move stuff and forget to update the map... erg.

[DarkwavePunk]

Re: Could be useful tech...

The new Meta (kill me now) ones look to be more HUD than actual AR, but might be useful in the scenarios you envision. Accidentally useful is something at least.

[Ol'Peculier]

A few days ago I was walking to the pub when I saw an Amazon branded van pull up to a door, driver gets out, delivers parcel, gets back in and driver about 2 feet before getting back out and delivering to the door next to it.

It gets worse. I'd walked past it by now but heard it start up again, and stop, after about 2 seconds.

Madness...

[Anonymous Coward]

Computer says "must drive to next delivery location before you can pick parcel"

Operations Research says "did we make all those salesmen die travelling for no reason?"

[Doctor Syntax]

Computer could say "Must not drive to next destination until all items have been delivered" but Amazon would only cock tat up as well.

[Irongut]

Not how they generally work round here. I usually see them park down the strteet then send a teenage girl round the houses with all the parcels while they sit having fag in the van.

Assuming it is a van and not a car, which I have also seen.

Oh and whats this "delivery vest" mentioned in the article? Round here Amazon drivers don't wear the uniform.

[Bitsminer]

Saves them $20k per mis-delivery

In Canada, without photographic proof of delivery, Amazon had to pay CAD$20k in fees and refund for a non delivery.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/amazon-fine-delivery-9.6949078

[Whitter]

Data gathering for robotic delivery?

Yes, it is a somewhat paranoid thought, but... Hoover up all the video for physically getting from a vehicle to the doorstep for a year or two, then train an AI robot to do it.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Data gathering for robotic delivery?

"Yes, it is a somewhat paranoid thought, but... Hoover up all the video for physically getting from a vehicle to the doorstep for a year or two, then train an AI robot to do it."

What happens when somebody leaves a note for Amazon to stop delivering boxes when somebody uses the address for a scam? Somehow I doubt the bot is going to see and read the note. Other's have had Amazon dumping returns on their doorstep when some "store" uses the address to register an account, sells loads of fake and defective tat and the person winds up getting a lorry load of landfill that Amazon can't figure out how to deal with. Customer service is loads of fun since the person isn't a customer and doesn't have an account/order number to enter into the automated voice system for the system to act on.

[Horndoggie]

How about in addition to this, you find a way to load the trucks so the driver can easily find the package when they get to your house?

[Badgerfruit]

As a former amazon driver....

.... I have to comment.

The specs idea to help you find the door, sounds awful, there app is actually brilliant, when a driver marks as delivered, that exact gps position is recorded, usually, that's the door or porch etc.

Sometimes, it can be out a little and you have to use your brain.

Package x of y, the app says take parcel, a, b and c. You have to scan the qr code and it won't let you progress to the next delivery until all parcels for that drop are scanned and marked as delivered.

Loading is done at the depot, there's usually about 15 big bags, and you load them in a set order, first in, last out. Inside the bags is the same, stuff at the top is to be delivered first etc.

Branding. It's rare that even an amazon van is driven by an amazon employee, most are self employed, making 130/day and work for a DSP, delivery service partner. Even in an amazon branded van.

You're not given a uniform, you're told to wear sensible clothes. I had an amazon jacket but I had to ask and only because it was winter.

Yes, we do drive literally two houses down, we are told every second counts so that 30s walk back to the van means you're losing time, besides, unless you're in a dead end, chances are, you're heading one way down that street so may as well take the van.

On average a driver is expected to work 9 hours and deliver around 250 to 300 parcels. There are no toilet breaks, lunch breaks and you're expected to be able to wangle a huge van through streets, fords, villages, cities, business estates, farms, who knows what else, so yeah, the odd dint is to be expected.

Drivers in some DSPs have to video their van before and after each shift and send to their managers, reporting damage etc.

Helped me, someone said I'd hit their car and pointed to a dent on my van, I happily whipped out my phone and showed them that dent was there 6 hours ago.

Also note that you're not supposed to have other people in the van but its so much easier to have someone be able to run in and drop the parcel while you're driving, waiting or sorting the next parcel out.

Finally, cars vs vans, vans are the normal deliveries cars are flex, ie. They pick up and deliver less but it'll be the same day order stuff.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: As a former amazon driver....

"On average a driver is expected to work 9 hours and deliver around 250 to 300 parcels. There are no toilet breaks, lunch breaks "

That would be illegal in the UK.

[MachDiamond]

Re: As a former amazon driver....

""On average a driver is expected to work 9 hours and deliver around 250 to 300 parcels. There are no toilet breaks, lunch breaks "

That would be illegal in the UK."

If you are working for an employer, it might be. If you are classed as an independent contractor, probably not. The devil is in the details and those companies often work to make sure they have a legal argument that it's the latter. You choose not to take breaks, so it's on you because you are not efficient enough. A judge may see this as total bull, but their hands can be tied and they can't find for the slave given the current statutes. A company as big as Amazon will be a major political contributor so don't hold your breath for laws to be passed.

[MachDiamond]

Re: As a former amazon driver....

"You're not given a uniform, you're told to wear sensible clothes. I had an amazon jacket but I had to ask and only because it was winter."

In some places it legally required so YMMV. In other places, you damn well may want to make sure that people know who you are and in others, not.

[ecofeco]

LOL, typical corporate mindset

Instead of hiring competent people because they don't want to pay them what they're worth, they pay peanuts and get a circus.

To fix it they then flog expensive tech to control the low pay employees through extreme micromanagement.

Genius! /s

Of course, smart people won't put up with such micromanagement no matter how much you pay them, so it becomes a feedback loop.

[Joe Gurman]

Re: LOL, typical corporate mindset

Sorry, there aren’t 5hat many competent people in any country, and most of those already have far better-paying jobs, working conditions, and hours than the folks driving for Amazon.

[MachDiamond]

Re: LOL, typical corporate mindset

"Instead of hiring competent people because they don't want to pay them what they're worth, they pay peanuts and get a circus."

There's been stories that in some places, Amazon and other big eTailers have used up (abused too many) of the people in the area and are finding it more and more difficult to fill roles with anybody that can't get hired anywhere else. Los Angeles wants to raise minimum wage for hotel staff to ~$30/hour. Cleaning hotel rooms isn't a glamorous job, but it will pay more than sticking things in cardboard boxes. If you are going to wind up with repetitive stress injuries, get the most money out of it that you can while doing it.

[martinusher]

Fundamental Contradiction

As a rule you don't want packages dropped off on people's doorsteps in apartment complexes because that's one of the 'high risk for losing them' scenarios. If the complex is gated then the complex management would likely provide a central drop-off point, a secured location where packages could be stored pending collection (or delivery by building staff).

Its an interesting experiment although it brings to mind those experiments with cyborg insects where some innocent cockroach is issued with some electronics that use electrodes buried in its brain to control it. (It begs the question of whether a cyborg delivery person is more cost effective than a robot; I suspect they are since they're largely self-maintaining and are easy to dispose of at their end of their service life.)

[tiggity]

Smart glasses

.. will probably record a lot of footage of overworked drivers pissing in containers with lack of time for breaks (& difficult to find a "public toilet" in UK these days)