The Register Home Page

back to article UK may already be at war with Russia, ex-MI5 head suggests

The former head of MI5 says hostile cyberattacks and intelligence operations directed by The Kremlin indicate the UK might already be at war with Russia. Baroness Manningham-Buller, who served as Director General of the intelligence agency from 2002 to 2007 and was the second woman to fill the role, made the claim on Lord …

  1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Suggestion

    The bright bulb might also say the bears do their business in the woods.

    Funny how they had their heads in the sand when subsequent corrupt governments sold Britain to foreign corporations, giving them massive power over our democracy.

    Who voted for Digital ID? Big consultancies.

    1. Like a badger Silver badge

      Re: Suggestion

      "Funny how they had their heads in the sand when subsequent corrupt governments sold Britain to foreign corporations, giving them massive power over our democracy."

      Short of a coup, what would you propose they should have done?

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: Suggestion

        Framing this as ‘short of a coup’ misses the point entirely. MI5’s statutory duty is to defend the nation from subversion and hostile influence. While the spotlight was on terrorists, foreign corporates and consultancy cartels quietly gained policy leverage and structural control over critical sectors. That wasn’t mere politics - it was a security risk. By looking the other way, MI5 failed the nation: taxpayers were robbed blind through the back door, and democracy was weakened under the guise of business as usual. Exposing that wouldn’t have been a coup, it would have been their job.

        What should they have done? Exactly what their remit allows: investigate foreign-linked lobbying, trace flows of money shaping policy, flag compromised procurement and regulatory capture, and escalate findings beyond the Prime Minister to Parliament and the Intelligence and Security Committee. A competent MI5 could have forced daylight onto these practices, pressing agencies like the NCA and SFO to act rather than ignore politically connected wrongdoing. That’s not overthrowing democracy - it’s protecting it from being hollowed out.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Suggestion

          escalate findings beyond the Prime Minister to Parliament and the Intelligence and Security Committee.

          I think going to Parliament as a whole, would be going beyond their brief and interfering in politics, because any opposition would make hay with it.

          Their chain of command is the minister, with oversight by the cross parliamentary committee. It's for the minister to decide what goes to the PM and for the PM to decide what goes to Parliament.

          1. JimmyPage Silver badge
            Stop

            Re: Suggestion

            PARLIAMENT is suprme.

            Not the government.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Suggestion

        Not played their game at election time. But that requires people to think, understand what is happening and not just believe the narrative fed to them. So probably nothing we can do.

    2. Omnipresent Silver badge

      Re: Suggestion

      The very first words out of my mouth were... "no duh, ya think?"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Suggestion

      Nobody voted for digital ID. They'll have to thrust it into my cold dead hands before I'll have one.

      I can't wait for the next election.

      1. Ian Johnston Silver badge

        Re: Suggestion

        Since it is obvious that digital ID - if it ever works - will have absolutely no effect on the black economy, we should be asking why exactly Labour is dredging this up again. Is it just their bossy social-workers-know-best ethos or do they have an actual aim in mind? Because if it.s the latter, and they are not admitting it, we can safely assume that the aim is evil.

        But of course, it won't work. So we're probably safe, for now.

        1. Helcat Silver badge

          Re: Suggestion

          There's a fair chance that rumour in this instance is correct: That this is money for their mates. This will be outsourced and it'll go to someone who already has their fingers in Labour's pie. Possibly even pulling strings: That's how politics seems to work these days.

          So no open tender, best bid wins etc: Just the same old bull and a total waste of tax payer money. And to think: Liebour keep harping on about how we should tax the rich, while they're funding the mega-wealthy with projects like this.

          Yes: That's another reason not to want this digital ID.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Suggestion

            The money for mates is just a happy side effect, this is all about control. It may not be law but 'they' will ensure it is demanded to work, to buy and to bank. So, you have a choice be a criminal and be hunted or be legal and a slave.

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. bravo6

        Re: Suggestion

        You really think that elections make a difference anymore?

      4. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: Suggestion

        An election does not solve this. Whoever gets voted in next time will continue/restart digital ID. The only option is to delay it now by writing to your MP. That should delay it until after the next election when you will have to delay it again, and again until you die. Then your descends will have to continue the delaying tactics.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Suggestion

          How about Nurnberg 2.0 only this time not a show trial with a few thrown under the bus?

          We need to cut off the gangrenous limb of "leadership" that we allowed to develop.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Suggestion

        "I can't wait for the next election."

        What next election, if there even is one, it'll be rigged. Democracy is nearly gone. Vote independents that should cause government to be in chaos for a while which means no more legislation and things will improve.

    4. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

      Re: Suggestion

      And Tony Blair, his "institute" has been a major influence on this ID scheme.

      It's disgusting that starmer is using reform rhetoric to further deminse immigrants in his attempts to railroad this scheme through.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Suggestion

        "It's disgusting that starmer is using reform rhetoric to further deminse immigrants in his attempts to railroad this scheme through."

        This government has not one jot of integrity and decency.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not to mention political interventions

    We should be treating the funding fed to UKIP/Brexit/Reform politicians and causes as part of the same war effort and respond to them as the military and social threat that they always have been, instead of lavishing relentless media attention on them every day for decades.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not to mention political interventions

      Can we do the same for the far left groups? It has long been known that Russia has been funding environmental groups, especially the anti-fracking groups. One has to ask where the funding is coming from for the tea towel wearing protests. They all seem very well organised.

      1. Grunchy Silver badge

        Re: Not to mention political interventions

        Believe it or not I am firmly against the far left agenda too! I’m against all the extremists. Same as everyone else, or nearly everyone else. Why do we keep getting stuck with extremists running the agenda? Well it’s a calculated deficiency in Democracy itself, I’m afraid. The mechanics of the Democratic vote have been artificially limited for millennia: nobody is ever allowed to vote “against” any extremist, everybody is forced to vote “support” for some other nominee. And that’s the gotcha: the only people with the stomach to join political parties and who therefore have the power to select nominees are ONLY the extremists. (Seriously, 95% of people are too preoccupied with cooking dinner and watching TV to ever get involved.)

        Every bill scrutinized by politicians is decided by a process known as “plebiscite” wherein politicians are granted the power to vote not only “yes,” they can also vote “no,” too. That’s what true Democracy looks like, but nobody else is allowed to vote like that: only politicians are allowed.

        (The idea is r/PlebisciteBallot, it’s on Reddit, there’s a clumsy video https://youtu.be/1WiPbLgMHSQ there’s a proposed solution but we would have to to consider the possibility of renovating the way ballots are voted.)

        1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

          Re: Not to mention political interventions

          The core problem isn’t just ballot mechanics - it’s that there’s no real mechanism to hold politicians to account once elected. Agencies like MI5, NCA, and SFO take taxpayer money but routinely avoid tackling the subversion and corruption shaping policy. So we get the same dance: people vote in good faith, and then the agenda delivered is something entirely different.

          It doesn’t even matter which party is in charge - politicians are dazzled by the same lobbyists pushing Digital ID, CBDCs, OSA, mass data-sharing, and other schemes that only a few years ago were dismissed as conspiracy theories. Nobody ever voted for this. The rise of so-called extremists isn’t about ideology - it’s a reaction to the social contract being broken. It’s the political equivalent of kicking the chessboard when the game is rigged.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not to mention political interventions

          "Why do we keep getting stuck with extremists running the agenda?"

          Cos politicians foolishly think that kowtowing to the screeching minority is somehow going to get them more votes. Kamala Harris found this out as on the left the baying mob is so much more fickle and if you don't agree 110% you are not one of them. She went all in on some rather niche policies and also very foolishly told group A one thing and group B another thing and did not consider that someone might notice.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            It worked for Trump.

          2. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            Yes, she tried to appeal to the left by bringing out noted far-left activists like the Cheneys and proposing a kind of Trump-light policy on immigration. No, actually her support from the left collapsed and the right didn't vote for her either.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              That was EPIC! I would have loved to have been in the meeting where they proposed bringing out one of the most hated warmongering families in US political history as a mascot for the Democrat party.

          3. Ian Johnston Silver badge

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            It's always entertaining to take a dive down the Wikipedia rabbit hole of UK far left parties. About the only one which has not fissured innumerable times is the SWP and that's because they are basically a bunch of fascists who take their policies and party discipline from the far right.

          4. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            Politicians have been saying different things to different groups for decades. It is how they get elected.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              Yeah, its just not been as easy to spot.

              Hey <group A>, I support your struggle against <group B> and I stand with you!

              Hey <group B>, I support your struggle against <group A> and I stand with you!

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            No, this is planned destruction. Politicians are along for the ride as actors on the stage, they are not directing, just well paid stars.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not to mention political interventions

        EVERYONE is well organised because EVERYONE uses Social media ... even the thugs & rioters use it !!!

        It must be stated that the world is NOT so simple that all issues can be represented by simple LEFT vs RIGHT choice of actions/policies. Some issues need a more nuanced view and consequent solution.

        The left is fragmented into lots of groups with differing views about fine detail which means that they are constantly fighting each other more than they fight the real enemy (whoever that might be). This is their weakness, respect for the 'unheard' people, at the bottom of the social ladder, tends to mean they have problems with denying any other supporters their 'voice' as it would be mirroring the tactics of the people they are opposed to. This freedom is their 'kryptonite' as they will fight each other even when they have won the war, and undo the victory by 'snatching defeat from the very jaws of victory' once again !!!

        The right on the other hand tends to be much more organised & patient, seeing that a win at the more 'acceptable' end of their beliefs is a very useful way to get into power. Once there the more 'adventurous' beliefs are easy to introduce when the 'Dumb voters' have lost their power and temporary importance. This also means that they are much more adept at suppressing the voices that they do not wish heard until later when the 'die has been cast', by the 'Dumb voters'. 'Equal & fair' does not apply anywhere, so suppression at all levels both inside and outside of the party is all considered 'Fair play'. Their weakness is that they cannot see that 'Might is Right' does not work for ever ... eventually people see through the slogans and waving flags and realise that it is not working for ALL of them ... usually, in fact, MOST of them !!!

        See the adventures of a certain German Corporal (1933-45) to see how this can play out !!!

        :)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not to mention political interventions

          You've got your sides the wrong way around ;)

          "The right on the other hand tends to be much more organised & patient"

          Partly correct. The right is very splintered but we are a more tolerant and accepting of other viewpoints. We also have to be very patient as we do our level best to use lawful methods. The right works for a compromise that will suit the majority.

          The left is more splintered as everyone is trying to out virtue each other and the left is just staggeringly intolerant of any alternative viewpoints except the current ingroup thing.

          "tends to mean they have problems with denying any other supporters their 'voice' "

          You just need to look at how the tea towel brigade have hijacked pride events as they think that tea towels are higher up the oppression pyramid than LGBTQAI$~zz^¬. So they get to take priority and ruin it for EVERYONE! They could not accept that a pride event wasn't centred exclusively on THEIR group. The people at the pride event to celebrate what pride events are supposed to be about were denied a voice as they were not virtuous enough.

          Those higher up in the left are the ones that take advantage of the 'dumb voters'. They convince the impressionable, usually people with some sort of mental health issues, that if you do what they say then all will be perfect. This is how you get huge crowds of black clad people all tooled up and smashing and burning everything in their path. I think it was Destiny who pointed out that 7 of the 10 biggest riots have taken place under Trump's watch. Of which only one (and really it wasn't that big cos no buildings were burnt down and it only lasted a couple of hours) involved people on the political right. The missing 3 are likely to include the LA riots (not the right) and the 2015 BLM riots (again not the right).

          "Their weakness is that they cannot see that 'Might is Right' does not work for ever"

          Which is why people are rightly fed up of the black clad, rock throwing LARPers taking over the streets. Waving a flag for an organisation that worked hand in hand with the NSDAP to violently keep the 'capitalists' out of Germany. Yes, this is true. They actually helped the vertically lacking Austrian to power.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            The people at the pride event to celebrate what pride events are supposed to be about were denied a voice as they were not virtuous enough.

            And have you seen what happened to lesbians who complained that men in dresses wanted to march in Pride as lesbians?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              Misogyny in a dress. Nuff said.

          2. Casca Silver badge

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            Another right wing AC as usual...

            1. JPCavendish

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              Being an AC isn't a marker of right or left I'm afraid. I had a run-in here recently with two ACs who were most definitely way out on the left.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            The modern right claims to be open to a wide diversity of opinion from "black people are bad" through "women are bad" to "gay people are bad" but their only actual belief is that there is a group of special people (mostly straight white men) who should be allowed to do anything to anybody and everybody else, who should allow the first group to do things to them without complaining. Their entire and only selling point is "you could be part of the special group!" but in practice that group keeps contracting until they're fighting amongst themselves about who is in it, or until all the people they promised a special place to wake up* to the fact they're being used and stolen from.

            Once you realise the only thing they want is a special group exercising raw power without constraint and that they feel justified in doing anything to achieve that because nobody else is fully human to them, a lot of their behaviours fall into place.

            *This, of course, is why they hate the woke. They need compliant sheep, not conscious people who are willing to resist their depredations.

            1. JPCavendish

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              "The modern right claims to be open to a wide diversity of opinion from "black people are bad" through "women are bad" to "gay people are bad" but their only actual belief is that there is a group of special people (mostly straight white men) who should be allowed to do anything to anybody and everybody else, who should allow the first group to do things to them without complaining. Their entire and only selling point is "you could be part of the special group!" but in practice that group keeps contracting until they're fighting amongst themselves about who is in it, or until all the people they promised a special place to wake up* to the fact they're being used and stolen from.

              Once you realise the only thing they want is a special group exercising raw power without constraint and that they feel justified in doing anything to achieve that because nobody else is fully human to them, a lot of their behaviours fall into place."

              You misspelled "left".

            2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              This, of course, is why they hate the woke.

              Most of the hate seems to be coming from the far-left. Just ask Charlie Kirk's widow. Otherwise the woke are just the compliant sheep, willing to protest anything and everything at the drop of a MAGA hat. They're just the modern iteration of the way the Democrats created the KKK to spread fear and hatred in the past. But when they're not rioting or killing people, they can be entertaining watching lefties losing it and melting down when they don't get their own way.

              You're also demonstrating that other classic 'woke' trait, namely projection.

            3. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              It would be hard to be more wrong but I would not put money on it. The left are pretty special!

              "Their entire and only selling point is "you could be part of the special group!" "

              So what you've actually done is describe the 'woke' left. The entire identity of some people revolves around their group memberships. intersections and hierarchy within the groups. These people are always easily spotted as they will introduce themselves with a list of groups/subgroups that they use to define themselves rather than actually introducing themselves.

              This is how we got to the point where a pride march had to be cancelled due to infighting between groups about who takes priority.

              https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/pride-parade-cancelled-after-being-halted-by-pro-palestinian-protesters-1.5554689

              https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/07/08/london-pride-youth-demand-protest-parade-palestine/

              Note in the second article the group is called 'YOUTH DEMAND'. They have been brought up to believe that if they 'demand' something then they will get it. No-one has ever said 'no' to these kids. They also think that due to their group membership that they out rank everyone else at the event despite the event having pretty much nothing to do with them. The kids are upset that not everyone wants to join their group, and again from what they have been taught, if someone won't join their group then that person is an enemy and they are justified in being angry and taking direct action.

              1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: Not to mention political interventions

                They have been brought up to believe that if they 'demand' something then they will get it. No-one has ever said 'no' to these kids.

                It's both entertaing and depressing watching bodycam videos of LEOs encounters with the entitled. Often starting with something that could have been easily dealt with with a ticket or a caution, then steadily escalates into more serious charges. "I know my rights!" (They don't). "You can't tell me what to do!" (They can, and that's why they have a warrant card, are sworn officers). Then sometimes ending up with screaming 'adults' being tased, bundled into a wrap (do UK LEOs have those? and if not, why not?) and hauled off to jail.

                1. Adair Silver badge

                  Re: Not to mention political interventions

                  O wad some Power the giftie gie us

                  To see oursels as ithers see us!

                  It wad frae mony a blunder free us,

                  An’ foolish notion:

                  What airs in dress an’ gait wad lea’e us,

                  An’ ev’n devotion!

                  With thanks to Roberbie Burns.

            4. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Not to mention political interventions

              First, it appears to me that the right, as in conservative, are far more willing to accept diversity than the left, they simply do not want alternative lifestyles it forced & coreced on them or their children. Second, who doesn't want their tribe to be take precedence. At least the right consider their tribe about character not skin colour and they don't want to brutalise those that disagree, just sideline.

        2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

          Re: Not to mention political interventions

          This is their weakness, respect for the 'unheard' people, at the bottom of the social ladder...

          The left has very little time indeed for people at the bottom of the social ladder, because they keep wanting the wrong things, like climbing the ladder. That's why "false consciousness" was invented and why the SWP believes in "permanently deflected revolution" which means, basically, that the proles will never be able to run things and that the intellectuals (seriously, that's how they see themselves) of the SWP will have to do it for them.

          1. Bebu sa Ware Silver badge

            Re: Not to mention political interventions

            "intellectuals ... of the SWP"

            Reading the Wiki entry for the SWP they would have to be the toxic sludge found at the bottom of any third rate political think tank.

            "Citizen Smith " would be a veritable Einstein amongst that lot.

            Orwell's pigs had much the same idea but generally had far more of a clue but arguably they were actually fascists.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not to mention political interventions

          Some interesting thoughts but I would add 2 points; it is not apparent to me what the difference is between far-left and far-right, just opposite sides of the same coin and easily flipped, also the constant use of the "extreme" tag for disagreement is guaranteed to allow a truly extreme party into power or at least one that becomes extreme.

          Most decent people want the same outcome, we only disagree on the means to achieve it.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not to mention political interventions

        100% While I am appalled at what is happening in Gaza, it is being used politically.

    2. Wellyboot Silver badge

      Re: Not to mention political interventions

      To be fair to the media, they do make far more entertaining headlines & photo's than the traditional parties with all their media image consultants.

      When politicians start calling other politicians rude names it's a racing cert that they don't want to get into a public discourse on the finer policy issues.

    3. SundogUK Silver badge

      Re: Not to mention political interventions

      Please point to a single verifiable source showing Russian funding to UKIP/Brexit/Reform politicians.

      1. breakfast Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Not to mention political interventions

        I'm not here to use a search engine on your behalf, but just so this kind of deflection doesn't go entirely unanswered the most recent court case was less than a week ago: Ex-Reform politician admits Russia-linked bribery charges.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not to mention political interventions

        Everbody knows Russia is behind everything bad! The BBC said so. LOL

        It would be very interesting to trace all politician's fundings. I think it would be an eye opener. Because we, the democratic West, don't do such terrible things. The whole thing is corrupt and it attracts corrupt people. How the hell it can be fixed, I don't know? Maybe MPs should be chosen like jurys?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not to mention political interventions

      And where the funding for GBNews originates before reaching those investment funds in the Emirates.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not to mention political interventions

      Are you a bot or do you believe all the left wing BS fed to you? Reform are not the root cause. They are no better nor worse than the others. It's all just talk until they follow through.

  3. STOP_FORTH Silver badge
    Pirate

    Spy vs. Spy

    If you have seen the documentary series called "Slow Horses", you'd realise that MI5 is at war with itself.

    1. Ken G Silver badge
      1. STOP_FORTH Silver badge

        Re: Spy vs. Spy

        Harsh but fair assessment.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Spy vs. Spy

          In my workplace too.

  4. Like a badger Silver badge

    Surely a war requires two countries conducting hostile actions?

    As opposed to one conducting hostile actions, whilst the other just sits there and takes a kicking.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    More pointless fearmongering

    The Europeans are desperate to drag the US into direct confrontation with Russia, that's what all this noise is ultimately about. Note, I said the US. The rest of NATO ain't worth a hill of beans in terms of seriously challenging Russia. Fortunately, for those of us that aren't relishing the prospect of WW3, it looks like Trump is washing his hands of the conflict.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: More pointless fearmongering

      "The Europeans are desperate to drag the US into direct confrontation with Russia"

      Right people, wrong order. If I remember the comment went something along the lines of 'F**k the EU'. The US will sell us the bombs and we get to drop them on Russia.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: More pointless fearmongering

        Yes, that was Nuland, the arch Neocon dutifully following the Brzezinski plan to break Russia apart.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Russia is the one responsible

      They're the ones flying drones over Poland and other NATO countries. Funny how that started up in the last couple months when Ukraine's homegrown drones have been scoring major victories destroying Russia's oil infrastructure leading to gas shortages all over Russia. Putin is desperate, he knows that the status quo is no longer sustainable, Ukraine is only going to press this advantage and no amount of bombing Ukrainian civilians is going to stop it.

      Heck even Trump appears to be conceding this, with his recent comments on Ukraine maybe getting back all the territory they lost. Quite a change from his claims that Ukraine "didn't have the cards" six months ago lol

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Russia is the one responsible

        Heck even Trump appears to be conceding this, with his recent comments on Ukraine maybe getting back all the territory they lost. Quite a change from his claims that Ukraine "didn't have the cards" six months ago lol

        Reading comprehension much? Trump said he's happy to sell weapons to the Europeans who will then pass them on to the Ukrainians. Only problem with that plan is that Europe is fcuking broke!

        Trump is washing his hands of this mess. Just you watch. ;)

        1. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          Ukraine may be close to reaching a point where they don't need any outside weapons other than missile defense. They built their homegrown drone industry specifically to have zero parts or service dependency on the US, so even if Trump does "wash his hands" of it Ukraine is going to keep making Putin's life more miserable by the day. Just YOU watch.

          The only reason Trump cares one way or another is because he's desperate for a Nobel peace prize because his ego can't handle that there's something he wants that he will never have. So he tries to insert himself into every conflict trying to claim he made "peace" like the toddler desperate for his father's attention and approval he still is mentally and emotionally.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          He's a chicken.

        3. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          Reading comprehension much? Trump said he's happy to sell weapons to the Europeans who will then pass them on to the Ukrainians. Only problem with that plan is that Europe is fcuking broke!

          Kind of. Trump said he'll flog weapons to NATO to give to Ukraine because NATO is absolutely not at war with Russia. But NATO doesn't buy weapons, or have the money to do so. So NATO members buy those, and <drumroll> the US is a NATO member. So that may be a bit of spin for US domestic consumption, or the US is going to stop fulfilling it's obligations as a NATO member and contributing to continuing the conflict the US started, promoted and escalated.

          Trump is washing his hands of this mess. Just you watch. ;)

          Yep. He knows the way the wind is blowing and that Ukraine is losing, so doesn't want to be blamed for another defeat. So he's dumping the problem onto the EU and potentially escalating again, if the US supplies Ukraine with Tomahawks. And Russia's pretty much said several times that if Russia is hit with US (or German) long-range missiles, US targets will be hit in response.

          1. LogicGate Silver badge

            Re: Russia is the one responsible

            "He knows the way the wind is blowing and that Ukraine is losing"

            Russian talking point. Ukraine is loosing so much that what is left of the russian fleet is in hiding and 30% of Russian refinging capacity is offline.

            "And Russia's pretty much said several times that if Russia is hit with US (or German) long-range missiles, US targets will be hit in response."

            Russia is threatening with nukes every day ending with a Y.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Russia is the one responsible

              Russian talking point. Ukraine is loosing so much that what is left of the russian fleet is in hiding and 30% of Russian refinging capacity is offline.

              Yes, ukraine is losing and what's left of the Russian fleet is sitting in port and loosing off missiles at ukrainian targets. And even if 30% of Russian refining capacity is offline, it still has plenty of capacity left, and again can import refined products if it needs to.

              Russia is threatening with nukes every day ending with a Y.

              Yep. It announces 'red lines', we cross them, Russia escalates. Trouble is we're getting to the point where we're running out of red lines to cross and might find out that Russia wasn't bluffing. Then we all die. Zelensky's been ranting about using Tomahawks for decapitation strikes on Russia's leadership. If it does that and fails, which is possible or probable given Tomahawks are pretty ancient & slow cruise missiles, and the closest analog, ukraine's Neptune gets shot down, then Russia might return the favor and decapitate Zelensky. Or it succeeds, they manage to kill Putin and he's replaced by.. Who? Given Putin is one of the more moderate Russian politicians and his replacement (or the Russian people) would probably demand vengeance. That might mean Kiev gets glassed, or just WW3 and most of us die.

              And all because of this-

              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgjk8z47gko

              Since the creation of a new law last year, more than 10,000 prisoners have joined the Ukrainian military, including murderers... "I've committed many evil deeds for this country," says Andrii. "There is a price to pay for everything. I'll just go back to the job I'm good at: fighting."

              "I have skills too," chuckles Oleksii. "I know how to kill. Only here I won't be convicted for it."

              Well, he might be, as happened after WW2 and members of the original Dirlwanger Brigade were convicted and sometimes executed for war crimes. Strange the way ukraine is so intent on copying the worst of WW2's history.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Russia is the one responsible

              It's not that simple. There is a long history behind this conflict and the West is not so clean.

        4. Casca Silver badge

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          Moronic AC much?

      2. bravo6

        Re: Russia is the one responsible

        You obviously get all your information from approved news sources.

        No mention of MI6 actively firing Storm Shadows into Russia, or planning and organising several direct attacks on the Kerch bridge and Sevastopol installations.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          @bravo6

          "No mention of MI6 actively firing Storm Shadows into Russia, or planning and organising several direct attacks on the Kerch bridge and Sevastopol installations."

          I am surprised and disappointed that I had to go so far down the comments page to see this. I am amused that 'we may already be at war' when we are taking action against Russia and also providing the long range NATO weaponry to strike into Russia. And of course the coalition of the unwilling are desperate to put boots on the ground, get someone killed and demand the US go to war.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Russia is the one responsible

            Have you been offered Russian residency to post your this tyoe of stuff? (On top of EU residency. Which country was that?)

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Russia is the one responsible

              Have you been offered Russian residency to post your this tyoe of stuff?

              Odessa actually. I think that well-known ukrainian, Mikheil Saakashvili left a few things that weren't nailed down. Any idea why he was made Odessa's governor? Payment for services rendered perhaps? He who controls one of Europe's most corrupt ports must have managed to make a few dollars out of that.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Russia is the one responsible

                Codejunky was the made governor of Odessa? Wow that is a bombshell!

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: Russia is the one responsible

                  Wow that is a bombshell!

                  Nah, that would be Germany invoking Article 4 over an attack on their energy infrastructure-

                  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwywdmz7xpgo

                  A Ukrainian national has been arrested by police in Poland on suspicion of involvement in a series of explosions that blew up the Nord Stream gas pipelines under the Baltic Sea.

                  The second ukrainian to have been arrested now. I thought Russia was supposed to be the threat to EU & NATO infrastructure?

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Russia is the one responsible

                    So it wasn't Russia?? It just all seemed so smart on the part of the Russians to cut off the gas supply to Germany, their biggest trading partner in the EU, causing the German govt to get off the fence and actively start supporting Ukraine. And how could the Russians have known that Germany would start buying LNG from the US?

                  2. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: Russia is the one responsible

                    So obvioulsy wasn't Russia, if they had wanted to stop the flow they could simply turn off the tap!

        2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          bravo6,

          As far as I'm aware, no Storm Shadows have been fired into Russia. Ukraine were not given permission to do so.

          Therefore all Storm Shadow / SCALP missiles that have been fired, have been fired inside Ukraine. Which is a restriction that has been placed on many donated weapons.

          I also don't think any have been fired at the Kerch Bridge. Although I could be wrong about that - I'm pretty sure some were used against the air defence batteries defending the bridge to make it an easier target for Ukrainian systems. This is likely because they're the wrong type of weapon for taking down a bridge. Bridges tend to be built very strong, so require a big bang to actually destroy. You can use a smaller warhead to damage the road or rail surface - but that can be easily repaired.

          Crimea is in Ukraine. I suspect that the logical outcome of any peace between Russia and Ukraine is going to be Ukraine either ceding it directly, or some sort of diplomatic fudge like a Hong Kong style lease agreeement (with an actual plan in place for what happens when it runs out). Even Belarus and China haven't recognised Russia's annexation of Crimea. Kyrgyzstan appears to be the only country in the region to have done so. Hence no Storm Shadows have been lobbed at Russia.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Russia is the one responsible

            "Crimea is in Ukraine"

            Gaza is in Israel.

            1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

              Re: Russia is the one responsible

              Gaza is in Israel.

              This is complicated. Israel's borders are disputed, some states and groups don't even accept Israel has the right to exist at all. Including Hamas. Which is one of the reasons Isreal are again occupying Gaza - and that there's been this recent bloodbath. That and some very poor decisions from Israel's current terrible government.

              Crimea is simple. Ukraine seceded from the Soviet Union, in an agreed process. All provinces of Ukraine voted to leave in an agreed referendum, including Crimea. Admittedly Crimea by 50-something percent, when even the Donbas provinces were around 70%. The Russian Federation ten signed the Budapest Memorandum guaranteeing that it was happy with this, that it agreed that Crimea was in Ukraine and that it would never attempt to destroy Ukraine's territorial integrity. So it's nice and simple. Crimea is Ukraine. Russia agreed that Crimea is Ukraine. Repeatedly. Russia even leased military bases in Crimea - and accepted that this was a lease which Ukraine had the right to end. Hence cutting gas supplies to Ukraine in Winter, in order to coerce the government to renew the leases.

              The only free, fair and legitimate vote that the people of Crimea have had on the matter, agrees that Crimea is part of Ukraine. The UN and a vast majority of countries agree that Crimea is part of Ukraine. Including Belarus that have allied themselves with Russia in this invasion, and while not attacking Ukraine themselves, have allowed Russia to attack Ukraine from within their territory.

              Hope that helps.

              This is a very simple and non complicated issue.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Russia is the one responsible

                Gaza was just a city in Ottoman Syria. The 1947 UN plan cleaning up the mess after the fall of the Ottoman empire some 30 years earlier had a single country called Israel. In 1949 it was Egypt that occupied what is now called the Gaza strip and Jordan annexed the west bank starting the fractured mess that we have been dealing with ever since.

                Crimea has been historically more connected to the Turks and other peoples to the south and east than the European Slavs and Rus to the north and west. The Soviets wiped out the Crimean Tatars and claimed it as their own.

              2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                Re: Russia is the one responsible

                Which is one of the reasons Isreal are again occupying Gaza

                They aren't 'occupying' Gaza, they're systematically destroying it and demonstrating our hypocrisy. Russia launches massive drone & missile strikes supposedly targetting civilians and yet in 3yrs has probably killed fewer civilians that Israel's managed in a few weeks.

                All provinces of Ukraine voted to leave in an agreed referendum, including Crimea. Admittedly Crimea by 50-something percent, when even the Donbas provinces were around 70%

                citation needed

                The Russian Federation ten signed the Budapest Memorandum guaranteeing that it was happy with this, that it agreed that Crimea was in Ukraine and that it would never attempt to destroy Ukraine's territorial integrity.

                Ye gods. You're still running with that line of BS? So Crimea was-

                Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic

                Autonomous Republic of Crimea

                Then along came Biden and Nuland's coup, the fsck'ng of the EU, regime change, ukraine's civil war starting and the new regime consolidating power in Kiev and starting on their de-Russification pogrom. But there were also the Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet dividing up the Black Sea Fleet between Russia and ukraine and basing rights in exchange for discounted gas. Then the Khakiv Pact doing much the same, but increasing the price of gas paid by ukraine because they'd been stealing it. But the big one was this one-

                https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52240.pdf

                Article 6

                Each High Contracting Party shall refrain from participating in, or supporting, any actions directed against the other High Contracting Party, and shall not conclude any treaties with third countries against the other Party. Neither Party shall allow its territory to be used to the detriment of the security of the other Party

                Along with other articles respecting each others cultures, traditions, religions which the Kiev regime promptly ignored, announcing they were going to join NATO and forcing poor lil Zelensky to learn to speak ukrainian. Then in 2018, Poroshenko unilateraly decided to end the treaty without putting it to a vote of Ukraine's parliament, because that's just how democracy works in ukraine. Thus Poroshenko announced the world in no uncertain terms that Russia and ukraine were no longer friends, and the SMO became inevitable.

                The Budapest Memorandum was purely about removing nuclear weapons from ukraine's control, and again where Zelensky demonstrated his skill as a diplomat and statesman with these comments-

                https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/

                Ukraine has received security guarantees for abandoning the world's third nuclear capability. We don't have that weapon. We also have no security.

                Back in the days where Zelensky wore a suit and didn't have Elizabeth Holmes voice coach. But Russia heard mention of the 'n' word, observed the buildup of uAF troops poised to attack the Donbas, the cries for NATO membership, weapons and of course cash, lots and lots of cash.. And the SMO began a few days later.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Russia is the one responsible

            I don't see a prospect for peace in Ukraine without either Russia pulling out or taking all of Ukraine and I suspect neither do Trump or Putin. No solution is palatable to both sides currently so it will be either another forever localised war or WW3. Meanwhile defence companies get fatter and more influential.

      3. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

        Re: Russia is the one responsible

        Trying to get on the winning side again he is...

      4. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Russia is the one responsible

        They're the ones flying drones over Poland and other NATO countries.

        Are they? The drones that somehow managed to avoid being shot down by Ukraine, who frequently claim to shoot down 97% of everything Russia sends at them. But somehow Ukraine managed to miss a dozen unarmed drones, all of the same type that somehow ended up in Poland, despite only having a 700km range.

        Funny how that started up in the last couple months when Ukraine's homegrown drones have been scoring major victories destroying Russia's oil infrastructure leading to gas shortages all over Russia.

        Ukraine's rather good at that. So destroyed Russian-German infrastructure leading to gas shortages in Germany and the EU. Or pipelines and pumping stations leading to shortages in Hungary. Gas shortages in Russia? Less so given Russia has a lot of capacity, and can also import from Belarussian refineries, if it needed to.

        Ukraine is only going to press this advantage and no amount of bombing Ukrainian civilians is going to stop it.

        Ah, the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy, much beloved of the Bbc. Which oddly published an interesting image here-

        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c75qeqr5905o

        Emergency services said an attack on Kyiv's Institute of Cardiology had killed a nurse and a patient.

        Was the Institute the target, or was it collateral damage and..

        The sound of anti-aircraft fire was punctuated with occasional explosions - presumably either from the sound of an intercepted drone or one hitting its target.

        Which isn't an either-or, because gravity. And the image shows <something> being intercepted. Big cloud of debris, something, possibly part of the interceptor continuing up and to the left, something else continuing downwards towards a couple of high rises. Because that's the reality of air defences. A drone or missile might get hit, but it's still going to fall, and because it's been hit, it probably isn't going to hit what it was aimed at. Plus there's a multiplication of risk & debris. It can be normal to double-tap and launch two interceptors at a incoming object, creating 3 lots of falling debris.. Including potentially live warheads that can still detonate on the ground. There's been some other videos including one showing another intercept where the target continues on down and a large explosion when it lands, but can't find that one again.

        1. Wellyboot Silver badge

          Re: Russia is the one responsible

          Please look at a map, Poland has a direct land border with Russia, the Kaliningrad Oblast, it's barely 700km from Denmark let alone almost anywhere in Poland. Then there's the Poland/Belarus border, Belrus being the launch point for part of the 2022 invasion. Neither of these need go anywhere near Ukrainian airspace.

          I agree Ukraine is rather good at targeting critical infrastructure (and surprise targets), it's almost as if they'd been listening to advice from experts* in that sort of thing for the last decade.

          Shooting down any incoming drone or missile over your own territory guarantees all the wreckage lands on you, that's' why placing anti-air defenses outside of built up areas on the expected lines of flight allows many attacks to be brought down in open countryside**, only a small number make it into the cities where the last ditch anti-air systems are and even then a random impact will (most of the time) not hit anything critical.

          *experts from countries that Russia had managed to really annoy

          **Because of this in WW2, most allied bombers didn't come down over actual German cities and most V1 drones aimed at London were brought down over farmland after they had crossed the coast.

          1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

            Re: Russia is the one responsible

            Please look at a map, Poland has a direct land border with Russia, the Kaliningrad Oblast, it's barely 700km from Denmark let alone almost anywhere in Poland. Then there's the Poland/Belarus border, Belrus being the launch point for part of the 2022 invasion. Neither of these need go anywhere near Ukrainian airspace.

            I have, thanks. Namely the one issued by Ukraine showing the flight paths and the drones being launched from inside Russia, flying across ukrainian airspace and into Poland.. Which is too far for those drones range. Of course that map is an artists impression and if those weren't the flight paths, then those maps obviously can't be trusted. And if you look at a map, I'm pretty sure the ones that landed closest to ukraine's border are >700km from Kaliningrad, and I don't think there have been any claims they were launched from Belarus. But it's one of those 'trust me bro!' things that ukraine didn't launch the drones themselves.

            Shooting down any incoming drone or missile over your own territory guarantees all the wreckage lands on you, that's' why placing anti-air defenses outside of built up areas on the expected lines of flight allows many attacks to be brought down in open countryside

            Nice bit of theorycrafting with a shot of copium.. Rather easily countered by the Reuters/Bbc image showing an intercept over Kiev with the debris falling towards it.

            *experts from countries that Russia had managed to really annoy

            By Russia not bending over for our 'leaders' and their schlock & awe sanctions? Then further annoying them by not being out of missiles within the first few weeks, as we were promised? Or by rebuffing ukraine's advances in the much hyped offensive that should have allowed our 'leaders' to celebrate with victory cocktails on a Crimean or Sea of Azov bridge? Or the the way they used their shovels to dig out ukrainians from Kursk.. Yep, I can see how that could be annoying for our 'leaders' that Russia is still fighting, when we've spent so much blood and treasure convincing ukraine to fight to the last Ukrainian..

          2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

            Re: Russia is the one responsible

            Wellyboot,

            As far as I know, none of the Russian drones in that big wave into Poland came from Kaliningrad. They came over Ukraine or Belarus. The Belarusian government even claimed at the time to have shot some of them down, and notified Poland about others. Although that could be because Russia fired some of them from inside Belarus - and they're embarrassed - rather than because they were off course and might land in their cities. Part of an attempt to maintain plausible deniability, in other words.

            On the other hand Jellied Eel's pretence that they can't be from Russia is equally wrong. We don't know enough to know. Some of them were definitely Russian drones, most of them were unarmed decoys. If this had been an accident, or Ukrainian GPS spoofing or something, you'd expect some armed drones to have been in the mix. Thus it looks more like deliberate provocation - but within limits. And Ukraine will only waste precious missiles on drones that are aimed at targets it is set up to defend - that's the point about having integrated air defence. You can prioritise your targets, and in the case of Ukraine, being regularly hit with saturation attacks, you need to husband your expensive missiles and try to hit the slow and cheap drones with gunfire.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: Russia is the one responsible

              Some of them were definitely Russian drones, most of them were unarmed decoys. If this had been an accident, or Ukrainian GPS spoofing or something, you'd expect some armed drones to have been in the mix.

              All of the ones shown were originally Russian drones. Poland hasn't presented any evidence that any of them were armed.

              If this had been an accident, or Ukrainian GPS spoofing or something, you'd expect some armed drones to have been in the mix.

              Indeed. But there wasn't. Instead, pictures of drones perched neatly on fragile chicken coop, and one house that had been damaged. That later turned out to have been as a result of a dud AIM-120 fired from an F-16. But there were pictures of those Russian drones on display in ukrainian museums. There was data showing a 700km range. They somehow flew considerably more than 700km. How so? Especially strong tailwinds?

              Thus it looks more like deliberate provocation - but within limits.

              My point exactly.. Especially after ukrainian missiles previously killed two Polish farmers, ukraine denied it and tried to blame those on Russia until it was eventually proven that ukraine launched them. Poland could, of course clear things up, but has refused to provide any evidence. So instead Poles are ripping the pish out of the Polish government and making memes of toys armed with vodka bottles. But the provocation has served its purpose. Two Article 4 meetings, a chorus of claims that NATO is at war with Russia instead of simply 'defending ukraine' and at vote at the UN that only managed to attract the usual suspects & managed (from memory) less than 50 votes.

              Tell lies often enough, and eventually people stop believing you.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Russia is the one responsible

        "They're the ones flying drones over Poland"

        Perhaps, the problem is you can't be sure of that. There are lies upon lies from all sides.

    3. Casca Silver badge

      Re: More pointless fearmongering

      Oh look. Another moronic AC. Post with you handle will you. To scared?

  6. beardman

    In the West they call it "hybrid warfare". If they called it what it really is - the war - they would need to do something about it. Now they can just sit on their hands...

    1. ChoHag Silver badge

      I believe it is called a special computery operation.

  7. Long John Silver Silver badge
    Pirate

    'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

    Even should the UK become formally at war with Russia and with other places where decency lingers, don't conclude that it's the British people against the dastardly foreigners.

    Warfare remains the preserve of the monarch, among other 'residual powers'. In practice, that means, war is waged by a powerful self-perpetuating cabal within the Privy Council. These days, monarchs are employees of the Council who can be dismissed if they become uppity.

    Parliament, had negligible say in foreign policy, defence policy, and in declaration of war. Given that universal franchise representative 'democracy' is a nonsensical decision-taking tool, perhaps Parliament's exclusion is prudent. PMs, and Secretaries of State, automatically receive membership of the Privy Council, but in recent decades none qualify for inclusion within the inner cabal; one glance at the shabby crowd explains why.

    The interesting question is whether plebeians (and many of their betters) are as insular, ignorant, conformist, and in thrall to pageantry, as their forebears in WW1 and WW2. Shall they rush forward for 'King and Country' after shallowing a yarn about existential threat or 'principle' worthy of sacrifice of life? WW1 was a nonsensical conflict among mainland European powers; what Kipling called, 'the lesser breeds' to be found in mainland Europe, and elsewhere, should have been left to stew in they own juices; in the aftermath, Britain could have picked through the pieces for tasty morsels instead of bankrupting itself.

    Britain's participation in WW2 is portrayed as leading a noble cause (until the USA joined in and won the war) - no mention of Russians. Yet, Germany initially was no threat to the UK, and need never have been. Germany's "gangster regime" could have been left to implode naturally. Once again, Britain would not have been bankrupted. Moreover, the Japanese could have been left to pursue their grudge against the USA.

    Of course, powerful factions, especially bankers, benefit from warfare: rarely do ordinary people. The common man is left with 'Remembrance Ceremonies' for people foolishly caught up in schemes they didn't begin to understand.

    One might have thought that post-WW2, the expansion of eduction would give rise to a more savvy population capable of resisting demand they sacrifice themselves for empty causes profitable to other people. Not so, and 'enlightened' folk, from a stock which in later decades would embrace 'woke' and transgender nonsense, ended selective education and ruined further and tertiary education. Additional damage to tertiary education arose from a political cadre opposed to the 'enlightened', but equally crass and prone to impose ideology (in their case neoliberal ideas including making universities and scholarship 'businesslike').

    Nowadays, the mass of the population is ill-educated, and punchdrunk from 'austerity', from an idiotically managed Covid-19 local epidemic, from more austerity resulting from that, and from yet more austerity flowing from inherently incompetent NATO's silly attempt to weaken Russia by conflict on the Ukraine with an end view to Balkanising Russia and exploiting its resources. Meanwhile, income and wealth disparities have mushroomed.

    The upshot is that a vast majority of Britons, soaked relentlessly by propaganda, would go along with plans, fronted by Mr Starmer, by Ms Bad Enoch, or by Mr Farage (with Yaxley-Lennon in tow) calling upon sacrifice of life to preserve Western 'democracy', 'freedoms', and 'values'.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

      @Long John Silver

      As you have already selected the most appropriate icon for your profession, please accept this Penguin as a stand-in for your Parrot

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

        I second your applause for Long John Silver’s erudite post, Fruit and Nutcase.

        Surely by now, .... because of the undeniable evidence of the failure of democratically elected Parliamentarians to successfully imagine and effectively manage and lead any operation either at home or abroad and nowadays also remotely virtually both in and/or from cyberspace ..... MI5/MI6/MOD must have war-gamed new leadership direction[s] taking everything to an altogether much greater place.

        And if they haven’t, then they should, and tout de fcuking suite before all is further surprisingly quickly lost to other stealthy forces and spooky services way beyond any of their abilities and facilities to influentially command and practically exercise for physical control.

        Don’t they realise they have sovereign immunity to act with the autonomous impunity generously afforded to the virtually anonymous and superlatively secret. Use it, and IT and AI .... or lose it, IT and AI.

        IT and AI Shenanigans aint difficult space rocket science.

        1. bravo6

          Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

          What a fu**ing word salad of nonsense.

          1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

            Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

            What a fu**ing word salad of nonsense. ... bravo6

            Oh dear ...... but never mind. As is most always the case whenever referencing something unpleasant and/or new and quite different and disruptive, are matter revealed to be way beyond the ken of normal pay grades. It’s only natural ........ and fully expected in such elevationary circles.

          2. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

            Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population @bravo6

            Have you not been around here long enough to know that this is what amanfrommars1 does? (Oh. New user in 2022. Maybe not!)

            Over the years we've been asking whether it's a proto-AI from before the current AI bubble began, or a someone writing a response, and then passing it through several language translators to jumble up the meaning, or just a seeded random word selector with some grammatical rules.

            There's enough meaning to show that it is a comment about an article, but it's so 'loose' in the use of language that to try to get any sense at all requires several readings. Take a mind-bending trip through some of the past posts!

            I think the original intent of whoever owns the handle was that, as the name suggests, it's a being so unfamiliar with the Earth and it's politics and languages to allow it to spout near gibberish to prompt for uncomprehending responses.

            1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

              Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population @bravo6

              One day, someone could publish a research paper in a learned journal on the collected prose of amanfromMars 1.

              The best we can hope for is AI bots latching on to his output. May be Grok could be switched to disseminate words of wisdom of amanfromMars 1 over utterances from Musk

    2. bravo6

      Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

      "Nowadays, the mass of the population is ill-educated, and punchdrunk from 'austerity', from an idiotically managed Covid-19 local epidemic"

      The down votes confirm this.

      1. Wellyboot Silver badge

        Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

        wot, us lot here who play with all the big machines and pretty computery stuff?

        It's only because the universally educated mass of population is now literate that trolls can thrive on the interwebs spouting lies & BS.

        The post 2007 'austerity' was when politicos couldn't get money for their pet projects, actual austerity is when you've lost your job and face starvation if you don't find another one quickly - ask any of the twenty something million Americans who were fired in April 2020 due to that 'local epidemic'.

        1. headrush

          Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

          Since when did literacy imply intelligence?

          Any person who uses the term "far left" brands themselves a fucktard. The bloody liberal party are far left to these tosspots.

          I look forward to the day when the register doesn't mention, Russia, China, Trump and all the rest of the clickbait, but of course they wouldn't get many clicks then would they?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'The UK' doesn't equate to its population

      Thank you. Beautifully put. Unfortunately, you are shaking religiously held beliefs so will be ignored.

  8. Blackjack Silver badge

    Fearless Leader:

    Yes! Pottsylvania will declare war on everybody!

    General #2:

    But anybody could beat us!

    General #3:

    Yes! Besides being mean, we're all cowards!

    Fearless Leader:

    Tut-tut, gentlemen! Here is the genius of my plan!

    General Gerhardt:

    Hooray!

    Fearless Leader:

    [aims pistol at him] Not yet, Gerhardt; I'll tell you when. We'll declare war on everybody, but we won't tell anybody!

    [stunned silence]

    Fearless Leader:

    [aims pistol again] Now, Gerhardt.

    General Gerhardt:

    Hooray!

    From The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends Cartoon.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Put Trump, Putin and Netanyahu in a room

    Anyone gets out, lock them up.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Put Trump, Putin and Netanyahu in a room

      Not enough. Please add Starmer, Rutte, Macron, Merz, Von der Leyen, Lagarde, Fink, Gates, Guterres, Blair etc ... it's a long list

  10. Ian Johnston Silver badge

    And yet we have just given a state visit to a Russian intelligence asset. Funny old world.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Would have been interesting if the Russians managed to slip some novichok to Trump during the state banquet at Windsor Castle.

      Even a mild stomach bug would have had diplomatic consequences

  11. cookiecutter Silver badge

    Cityboy tossers & chancers

    maybe if the tossers in the City hadnt been so desperate for oligarch cash & helped Pootin launder so much of his money, to the point where he could drop a nuclear poison in Mayfair, a chemical weapon in Salisbury & even have the establishment cover up the murder of an actual MI5 agent investigating Russian corruption, while at the same timetime politicos took millions in russian cash....

    we wouldn't be in this position.... so my answer to the security services is... tell someone who gives a shit

  12. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Don't You Think ......

    If the likes of Baroness Manningham-Buller, ex Director General of MI5, who cites Kremlin sabotage, cyberattacks, and assassinations as signs of an undeclared conflict and a Fiona Hill,a British-American "foreign affairs expert" who apparently formerly advised the White House on Vladimir Putin and Russia during Donald Trump's first term were any good at their jobs they would still be in post and holding court and providing leading narrative for mass mainstream multi media broadbandcasting and ignorant susceptible native brainwashing and perceptions mismanagement.

  13. may_i Silver badge

    We have always been at war

    with eastasia.

  14. seldom

    Surprise, surprise, surprise

    If you sell weapons to a country, that's business. If you donate them, that's war.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like