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back to article US Navy: I can't quit you, Azure

Microsoft has the US Navy over a barrel, as the service admits it can't separate its custom-built cloud environment from Azure infrastructure without a complete rebuild "from the ground up."  The Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) published a sole-source justification letter on Tuesday (with award amounts redacted, naturally) …

  1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. DarkwavePunk Silver badge

    Cloud...

    Why? I think even sections of the Australian military have moved to Libre Office. Not for cost or ideology, but because of the utter entanglement that M365 has with cloud crap.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cloud...

      I don't think we're talking about Office365 and their choice of word processor and spreadsheet here

    2. Dave Null

      Re: Cloud...

      What on earth do you think the choice of Office apps installed on desktop PCs has to do with this?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cloud...

        It's a fair question right? When people think of Microsoft they don't think of defense projects in Microsoft's cloud. Because, you know, who would do that?!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cloud...

      100% true story... by default your Microsoft Office application running on Windows is permanently connected to LinkedIn - because, who doesn't want their Office application permanently connected to a social network, right?

      They call it "connected experiences".

      (To disable it: User Configuration > Administrative Templates > Microsoft Office 2016 > Miscellaneous > Show LinkedIn features in Office applications)

      1. Piro

        Re: Cloud...

        If you enjoyed that, press win+ctrl+shift+alt+l

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Cloud...

          Don't trip up newbies like this, it's way past 1999 and genz doesn't know how to identify nuance, sarcasm or trolling in good humour.

          1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

            Re: Cloud...

            So, instead, you give them "prompt" examples that would give the same results?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cloud...

      You might not realise, but this hits on a major point. It is *directly* contrary to USN Management and security directives to have critical infrastructure on Azure in the first place. I would be surprised if that wasn't also the case in Australia.Another older example of this kind of violation is US' DHS adopting Exchange and O365 in explicit contravention of a management directive clearly written to prevent it.

      This kind of thing is periodically politically overridden, but not usually for an entire branch, for reasons that are rather obvious. Frequent stability, data loss, and security problems far in excess of what sane people would allow,

      In the US we have a recent example of another threat, Musk's team were given total access to Azure for a major government system, which directly and immediately resulted in a breech and exfiltrated legal data to Russia. I'm sure that didn't make the USN feel good about that.

  3. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

    Get OUT of the uncontrolled commercial clouds

    get (back?) into your own infrastructure, and call it "private cloud".

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Get OUT of the uncontrolled commercial clouds

      I’m sure Trump can lean on Satya and MS will deliver a wholly private Azure for the US DoD.

      Step two will be to get MS to publish all their APIs so enable a second supplier, not rocket science, it’s been done before.

      1. Fred Daggy Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Get OUT of the uncontrolled commercial clouds

        It's a wonder most governments haven't been leaning on Microsoft to establish a sovereign cloud partner in their country. Eg, MS provide the technology, but the risk, hardware, premises, etc and billling belongs to the partner. I don't expect MS to be a charity here, they for sure get the MS tax from the partner.

        It's not like they didn't do it for China, and I think for Germany.

        1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

          Re: Get OUT of the uncontrolled commercial clouds

          Since anything managed by MS is available for examination by 3-letters agencies, I seem to remember the German options is no more...

          China didn't care much, since MS cloud was operated by Chinese techs anyway :-)

      2. YetAnotherXyzzy

        Re: Get OUT of the uncontrolled commercial clouds

        I'm surprised King Donald hasn't announced a vaporware Trump Gold Cloud service that USG elements are strongly advised to migrate to. Or at least start making monthly payments to now, in anticipation of a future migration.

        "Other cloud providers have mere silver linings. Only Trump Gold Cloud has a golden lining."

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    US Navy/DoD are so far up Microsoft's @$$ that's it's embarrassing. It also embarrassing how crappy that multi-billion dollar service is on a day to day basis.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      “ Microsoft has the US Navy over a barrel, as the service admits it can't separate its custom-built cloud environment from Azure infrastructure without a complete rebuild "from the ground up." ”

      Custom-built cloud . No surprise there.

      I’m sure the Technical Design Authority all have swanky jobs at Microsoft now for their efforts. Lock-in badge achieved.

    2. Soruk

      And knowing this, how long before Microsoft pull a Broadcom with their pricing?

      1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

        That would require a few top products which are so good to be top of their niche. Sadly, really sadly, Microsoft is more like a 50% company which does nearly everything half-arsed. Some core elements are 100%, but those are not many compared to the overwhelming mass of half-done crap. There were a few peaks in the past where Microsoft got closer to 70% or 80%, but could not keep that up and let it rot down to 50% again.

  5. YetAnotherXyzzy

    Doesn't surprise me. One of my former employers provided a cloud service to, not NAVSEA specifically, but an analogous part of the U.S. Navy. At their insistence and against our repeated counsel that it was a poor idea, they insisted that we make a highly customized version of our service when our off-the-shelf service would have ticked all their boxes. What they got was functional but largely unmaintainable. Then they kept insisting on changes, often for change's sake, withholding payment to force our hand, and pretty soon it was not just unmaintainable but too fragile for purpose as well. That contract ended in tears, and NAV[redacted] probably swears to this day that we were either inept or crooks or both.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      FYI, these decisions are always pushed through lobbying, sometimes a team will come directly into the office to make their pitch, and they expect no technical personnel to be present.

      Microsoft really likes to hand out TCO numbers written up to sell to MBAs, that are transparently ridiculous to anyone who has any idea what the things they list are.

      Then, having already signed something, it's pushed down to Pele who have to implement it verbatim based on the paperwork. I'm certain your scenario was exactly the same, but with dinner of the people swapped around. A senator was likely directly involved.

  6. Northern Lad

    Fine MS For Failures

    Why not fine MS for any and all failures and make it a lot of money, use said money to create a private cloud and hide it on the moon, nice and cold up there.

  7. John_Ericsson

    It was before a lot of your readers were born, but in the late 1990s the US Navy IT procurement "rules" were copy and pasted onto presentations as best practice.

    1. FirstTangoInParis Silver badge

      Rules are rules (and many military procurements have bent the rules in some way or another or even completely ignored them.

      Here it would be an architectural decision; design the system to do what it does and use shims to connect to vendor X cloud. Change vendor by rewriting the shim (apologies, management view!)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      That's not new, and not the bad part. While a headache to read, it ensures everybody knows exactly what is going on, almost exactly like double entry accounting.

      It serves its main purpose well, ... as long as oversight actually exists and is objective. Everyone can do what's needed and follow along, nobody can forget things, and a review can just follow the breadcrumbs to find mistakes. Of course in practice corruption and nepotism can't be prevented by these things alone.

  8. glennsills@gmail.com Bronze badge

    Question: Did Microsoft consultants "help" the Navy make this decision?

    I am sure they helped in building the dependent software.

  9. CharliePsycho

    No such thing as platform independent

    Unless all you use is plain text.

    It looks like whoever did the systems used all the "cool" Azure features, but doesn't everyone? whether it's Oracle, Amazon or Alibaba. It's the only way to get the cost down on the cloud, otherwise you have huge platform costs implementing your own data stream/lake/analytics/store/intelligence/bubble-bollocks... Then you are tied in.

    Blame the manager who bought into the cloud brochure bollocks in the first place... The it's "cheaper" and you won't be dependent on the grumpy ops team anymore, it will all be continuously improved DevOps with no reliance on people who know what they are doing, everything (including the people) are off the shelf!... In a secure gov cloud.

    *sigh* I'm so glad I retired.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: No such thing as platform independent

      The "cool feature" they would be using is Linux... which the USN had been doing just fine at since the 90's alongside big iron. In other words somebody made money forcing it on there, and now they want to take it back.

  10. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    Tsk!

    Should have stayed with Cobol over Unisys 1100/2200.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bah!

      For their work it's mostly Fortran, then and now.

  11. DaemonProcess

    AD

    I suspect active directory sorry Entra ID plus Fabric over data had something to do with this. AKS can be moved, the only weirdness is Namespaces.

    The other reason could be customisation to remove all semblance of LLMs in the admin or operation. I bet MS hate that.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wondering

    I'm just wondering what kind of applications Azure is supporting that can't be duplicated on other platforms. Worse, they claim they would need to fully redesign the application to work somewhere else.

    AFAIK Azure doesn't really have unique capabilities. It's mostly repackaged commodity and open-source software with an administrative layer on top.

  13. Msgreene22

    They all do this

    All cloud providers have unique service offerings that lock in the cloud vendor. AWS, Google, Azure. They also all have Federal environments that are built for DOD compliance. Some agencies have multiple cloud presence, but none of them are interchangeable.

    Your story should day that...oh, wait, then it wouldn't attract so much attention.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They all do this

      Agree that the title is pure clickbait, it is a challenge to make your apps and services active-active multi-region due to latency issues regardless of supplier. Adding in another supplier makes the whole task more difficult.

      Many commercial offerings stick to one supplier for production systems, with a approach to deploy to another supplier in case they need to exit.

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