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back to article Google is very sorry for pulling down COVID misinfo and pledges never to use outside fact-checkers

Google has taken a page out of Mark Zuckerberg's playbook, telling House Republicans that the Biden administration pressured it to push down COVID-19 content that didn't violate its rules, and pledging its commitment to free expression on political issues. Perfect timing given the Trump administration's latest wars on that …

  1. HereIAmJH Silver badge

    xTube?

    Will this finally be the impetus for a competing platform? Regardless of how you feel about this, Google needs some competition in this space. There are plenty of places where YouTube could improve just by changing their attitude toward users and content creators. Easy example, when demonetization is reversed through appeal the lost revenue should be reinstated as well.

    While I can easily block the accounts posting disinformation, unfortunately I'll also have to stop following some creators that I like because they are going to feel compelled to address it. For example, I saw way too much of DT's Tylenol creates autism speech due to informed creators needing to address that.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: xTube?

      I wonder if Tylenol will sue.

      1. Jim Mitchell

        Re: xTube?

        Apparently suing the Federal government and its agents is really hard for work related things. Maybe argue that slander is to far outside the President's duties and he is personally liable? I wish them the best.

      2. herman Silver badge

        Re: xTube?

        The Tylenol maker actually responded that NONE of their products are recommended for use during pregnancy.

        1. DavCrav2

          Re: xTube?

          CLAIM:

          "The Tylenol maker actually responded that NONE of their products are recommended for use during pregnancy."

          VERDICT:

          False.

          Here is a link clearly stating that Trump is making stuff up and that Tylenol is the safest form of pain relief during pregnancy. The site is operated by Kenvue.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: xTube?

            In other news thalidomide does not cause birth defects because the maker said so. Also DDT, asbestos, tobacco, lead in petrol, opioid painkillers and glyphosate are all safe for the same reason. Trust me bro!

            But more seriously, that link you provided doesn't actually address the initial claim you posted. Tylenol DID actually say in 2017 "We actually don't recommend using any of our products while pregnant.". This is fact.

            https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tylenol-x-post-2017-pregnancy/

            1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

              Re: xTube?

              anon,

              Your link is broken. But with a quick bit of link surgery I see that Snopes do have that page and also add context for it - i.e. that wasn't a complete company statement but one comment from their Twitter account.

              I don't have Tylenol packaging to hand, but do have in my desk drawer a UK packet of Paracetamol (Acetaminophen is the generic drug name) and a packet of Ibuprofen (Advil in the US?).

              There is no warning on my Paracetamol packaging to say that it can't be taken during pregnancy. Acetaminophen is actually one of the safest painkilling drugs available, though the amount that can be dangerous is uncomfortably close to the normal dose - hence in the UK you can only buy it in packets of 16 tablets (8 doses). It's a go-to drug because it doesn't generally cause side-effects and is relatively safe to use long-term. Particularly in comparison to other painkillers.

              Due to Trump's statement the UK government have even re-issued their advice to use it during pregnancy - given that he produced no scientific evidence to back up the US change of policy and the previous scientific evidence points to it being safe link to UK Health Ministry advice. Also Acetaminophen is safer than any of the alternatives and pain and inflammation are also bad for your health - and the health of the baby, if pregnant.

              My Ibuprofen packet says it is not recomomended for people who are pregnant, and a whole long lislt of other people. Because NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) are very good, but have a lot more side-effects than Acetaminophen. So you can't take Ibuprofen if you've had stomach ulcers, perforation or bleeding, or if you're on blood thinners or have certain heart conditions. Plus you're warned to check with your doctor if you're old, have asthma, allergies, high cholesterol, diabetes, high blood pressure, have had a stroke or have liver, kidney, stomach bowel or heart problems. Some of that is risk, and a lot of it is possible interactions with other drugs.

              Ibuprofen

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: xTube?

                "Your link is broken"

                Works for me.

                Contextualizing 2017 Tylenol post about pregnancy recommendations

                Claim: Tylenol posted on social media in 2017, "We actually don't recommend using any of our products while pregnant."

                Rating: True

                Context: Tylenol did share a post in March 2017 that read, in part, "We actually don't recommend using any of our products while pregnant."

                The company said, in part, that it does not "make recommendations on taking any medications in pregnancy because that is the job of a healthcare provider."

                Just a quick look at UK online pharmacies:

                Paracetamol 500mg

                Pregnancy and breast-feeding If necessary, Paracetamol 500mg Capsules can be used during pregnancy. You should use the lowest possible dose that reduces your pain and/or your fever and use it for the shortest time possible. Contact your doctor or midwife if the pain and/or fever are not reduced or if you need to take the medicine more often.

                Boots Paracetamol 500mg

                Seek advice before using if you are pregnant, planning to become pregnant, breastfeeding or suffer from allergies

                ALL medications come with SOME risk.

                1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                  Re: xTube?

                  Sorry, you're right. My browser / clipboard / pixies added an extra bit to the link, then gave me a 404 page. Now when I try it, it works perfectly. Aren't computers great.

                  ALL medications come with SOME risk.

                  This is true. All drugs come with risks, all diseases come with risks and we're left to trade them off.

                  It was probably a mistake to come down from the trees in the first place.

                  1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
                    Thumb Up

                    Re: xTube?

                    No one should ever have left the oceans.

                2. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: xTube?

                  It also points out this was a reply to a message, since deleted, so we are missing some context

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: xTube?

      There have been studies looking at a relationship between acetaminophen use during pregnancy and ADHD going on since the 90s. Just cos you dislike the person telling you something doesn't make it disinformation.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: xTube?

        ... nor does the mere existence of "studies" make something "information", let alone "fact" or "science".

        JFKJr sometimes cites "studies" for his crazy beliefs too, many (if not most) of them debunked repeatedly by multiple credible sources.

        The other problem is agenda-driven people sometimes say "well there have been studies..." about something they dislike, and sometimes that's enough to scare people away. Makes no difference that the studies were discredited or otherwise shown to be invalid later -- the damage is already done.

        1. parlei

          Re: xTube?

          Besides: "numerous studies on the relationship between the price of cheddar cheese and wind-patterns around Svalbard" does not actually tell you that any of them found any causative relationship, or even any correlation.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: xTube?

          "the mere existence of "studies""

          I like the way you put 'studies' in quotes, trying to imply that they are not valid. The existence of such studies over a long period of time actually indicates that there are people who believe that something needs further study to determine if there is any validity.

          Fact is that acetaminophen DOES cross the blood/brain barrier and DOES cross the placental barrier. That is something that cannot be disputed.

          "The other problem is agenda-driven people"

          Do you really think that a 35 year old study was 'agenda driven' by today's political environment?? And the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children wasn't even looking for this specific link. It was a long term study into the long term general health of mothers and their children.

          Sadly we now live in a world where 'credible source' really means 'someone with the same political agenda as me'.

          I will guarantee that if this had come from the Biden admin there would be people waving placards outside Walgreens and CVS to force Tylenol off the shelves.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: xTube?

            > trying to imply that ['studies'] are not valid

            Indeed, some of them are not.

            Big corporations, political parties, media conglomerates, religious groups, etc. have paid for, coerced, or otherwise sponsored 'studies' designed to support their agenda, often with pre-determined conclusions.

            This should not be a surprise.

            > Sadly we now live in a world where 'credible source' really means 'someone with the same political agenda as me'.

            For some people yes, this is true.

            The rest of us read, listen, pay attention, evaluate the sources, and make the best judgement we can. It's not easy.

      2. Michael Hoffmann Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: xTube?

        You mean, like including the meta-study in Sweden only last year, which looked at all of the prior ones and found there is no link? Those studies?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: xTube?

          Scandinavians (Swedish?) have been going through medical backgrounds for years looking for a link, any link, and have so far found none.

          Their dataset is so large that they were able to discount vaccines as a culprit because the data clearly showed no difference between vax and unvax

      3. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck Silver badge

        Re: xTube?

        It does when the disorder in question was first diagnosed decades before acetaminophen was created, and your whack job lies about it are still bullshit even if Der Pumpkin Fuhrer "loves" you for spreading the bullshit.

        1. herman Silver badge

          Re: xTube?

          Biology is complicated. Tylenol interferes with the nervous system - that is the way it works. There was a Harvard study that raised concerns and more studies will be done. The makers of Tylenol actually responded that NONE of their products are recommended for use during pregnancy. So, when you get pregnant you better tough it out…

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: xTube?

            Many drugs and vaccines aren’t formally recommended for use during pregnancy, because it is very difficult to do an appropriate clinical trial.

            However, we can expect women to take drugs and receive vaccines when they are pregnant, over time this information from a population will provide relevant feedback. It’s why the UK regulator - the MHRA, were able to say after some months of use, specific CoVid19 vaccines were safe for pregnant women.

            So I would expect the many manufacturers and brands of Acetaminophen - of which Tylenol is just one, to not say it is approved for use by pregnant women but to say words to the effect research/studies etc have found it to be safe.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: xTube?

              "were able to say after some months of use"

              How can you say that something is 'safe' from causing issues 5-10 years in the future from just 'some months' of use? As there is no specific test for developmental issues other than to observe the development of a child over a period of time how can you make this claim without having observed a suitable number of children over the normal time scales under which developmental issues are known to become obvious?

              1. John Robson Silver badge

                Re: xTube?

                Because the risks against which it's protecting are more serious, and the vast majority of the vaccine is well tested.

                The "new" ingredient was the specific mRNA sequence, which does one specific thing - it causes the body to produce a single protein to train the immune system.

                The alternative is to have that same protein in the fetus' bloodstream but along with a live virus that also wreaks other havoc.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: xTube?

                  Remind me who was saying in 2020 that they 'would never take the Trump vaccine'?

                  On a more serious note this was the first human mRNA vaccine to go past the trials stage. The trials of thalidomide were all good. The result after they went to production was far from...

                  1. Roland6 Silver badge

                    Re: xTube?

                    > The trials of thalidomide were all good.

                    My understanding is that it is still good for what it was originally trialled for, and is now one of the cocktail of drugs being used in HIV treatments.

                    It is good example of why caution is necessary and is now typically exercised in the application of existing drugs to new conditions, and why effectively no drugs are approved as being safe for pregnant women and their babies.

                    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
                      FAIL

                      Re: xTube?

                      From my recall of time at GSK (23 years ago) attending a TQM training course, batch(s) of Thalidomide were contaminated due to a punctured hose being repaired with tape &\or a production operative went off script on the "recipe" with too much heat or pressure (Possibly to compensate for the punctured hose).

                    2. PB90210 Silver badge

                      Re: xTube?

                      There was an episode of the Cautionary Tales podcast earlier this month on the very subject.

                      Looks like the US manufacturer was pushing the FDA to approve the drug in time for the Xmas markets but there was little data in the way of drug trials. A hunch meant they could use the lack of data to stall for time... which luckily turned up a German study that seemed to link the thalidomide to birth defects

                      (unfortunately doctors had been pushing 'samples' on mothers, so the US didn't totally miss out)

                  2. ThomH

                    Re: xTube?

                    > Remind me who was saying in 2020 that they 'would never take the Trump vaccine'?

                    Nobody whatsoever.

                    Though in a world where the majority still think Trump actually said to inject bleach into your veins*, I can understand why you might think there's some nonsense about.

                    * he sort-of implied it, then clarified that it's definitely not what he meant when answering the immediate follow-up question.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: xTube?

                      "Nobody whatsoever."

                      Are you sure about that?

                      Andrew Cuomo says he doesn't trust the federal govt on the safety of the covid vaccine:

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsCIrNUnNMI

                      He was just one of many along with an awful lot of people on twitter saying they won't take anything developed under Trump.

                      He didn't say bleach. He said disinfectant. And I've actually had 'bleach' injections as part of root canal surgery. It is used to flush out the root of the tooth.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: xTube?

                        I'm a New Yorker and I don't trust anything Andrew Cuomo says.

                      2. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: xTube?

                        damn, you're stretching!

                  3. John Robson Silver badge

                    Re: xTube?

                    > On a more serious note this was the first human mRNA vaccine to go past the trials stage.

                    True, but misleading... The vaccines weren't found to be unsafe, but the delivery mechanism wasn't sufficiently better than other options for diseases which had a commercial value for vaccination.

              2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

                Re: xTube?

                How can you say that something is 'safe' from causing issues 5-10 years in the future

                You can't. Because safe means an acceptable level of risk with all the information currently available. Otherwise there are zero safe drugs in existence. You can't scientifically prove a negative - you can't prove a drug will have zero side-effects across a whole population.

                However if you can keep

                So to call a drug safe to use for pregnant women you might decide that it's of an equal risk to use as the drug is for everyone else. Or you might assess that it has lower risks than the risks of not using it.

                That's the trade-off with vaccines. All drugs have side-effects. So the more people you give them to, the more people are going to suffer those side-effects. And the general medical principal is: "First, do no harm". But you give vaccines to healthy people. So it's a matter of statistics - risk to the general population from the vaccine minus risk of the vaccine. Which you usually won't know until you've given the vaccine to a large number of people. There's an extra factor, which is that vaccines reduce the spread of diseases, and in some cases can almost stop the spread of those diseases by creating herd-immunity. It's called sterilising immunity, and is how we eliminated smallpox. And may well be able to elimiate polio, if we can get the vaccine to the last few places.

                Even that has a downside though. Many people think that measles is a safe, boring childhood disease. And so because almost nobody in Western countries had had it for years, they don't know how devastating the complications can be, if you get unlucky. Because my Mum worked in special needs schools, starting in the 80s - I've met quite a lot of children who suffered blindness and/or brain damage from getting measles - from before the days of vaccines. Roald Dahl's son died of measles.

                Complications - from the CDC website:

                Hospitalization. About 1 in 5 unvaccinated people in the U.S. who get measles is hospitalized.

                Pneumonia. As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.

                Encephalitis. About 1 child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain). This can lead to convulsions and leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.

                Death. Nearly 1 to 3 of every 1,000 children who become infected with measles will die from respiratory and neurologic complications.

                Complications during pregnancy. If you are pregnant and have not had the MMR vaccine, measles may cause birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

                So the death rate is a bit under 1 in 1,000 infections. So if a million kids get it every year, about a thousand of them will die.

                Which is why the WHO estimate is that measles killed about 2.6m people a year globally before the vaccine was invented in the 60s and now "only" killed about 107,500 in 2023 - with global vaccination rates a bit over 80%. WHO linky

              3. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: xTube?

                “ Evidence so far reviewed by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency ( MHRA ), the UK regulatory agency responsible for licencing medicines including vaccines, has raised no specific concerns for safety in pregnancy.‘

                [source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safety-of-covid-19-vaccines-when-given-in-pregnancy/the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines-when-given-in-pregnancy ]

                So it’s in general safe, but without knowledge of your specific medical conditions it might not, hence use your head.

          2. HereIAmJH Silver badge

            Re: xTube?

            The makers of Tylenol actually responded that NONE of their products are recommended for use during pregnancy.

            You are twisting their words a little to make it sound like they don't trust their own product.

            Per Snopes - 'The company said, in part, that it does not "make recommendations on taking any medications in pregnancy because that is the job of a healthcare provider."'

          3. Casca Silver badge

            Re: xTube?

            Interesting how right wing morons have no trouble believing an orange muppet and his sidekick and ignore everything else...

            1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
              Devil

              Re: xTube?

              Casca,

              Fozzie Bear never said nuffink about Paracetamol!

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: xTube?

              This might blow what is left of your mind but a lot of this information has not come from either the God Emperor or RFK Jr at all. Some of it even comes from outside the USA.

            3. PB90210 Silver badge

              Re: xTube?

              In the UK, Nigel won't say if he believes or not, citing 'science changes its mind' (it hasn't, neither Trump or RFKjr are scientists).. while also wanging on about a JDVance-ian "they're eating the swans" based on the witterings of a lone taxi driver

      4. DS999 Silver badge

        Re: xTube?

        The fact that there are studies LOOKING FOR a relationship, and not finding one, is not a point in your favor. There was one study that RFK Jr. pointed to that showed a correlation between acetaminophen and autism, but the study authors themselves cautioned that it showed correlation, not causation. Since the reason women take acetaminophen during pregnancy is to treat a fever (which has proven negative consequences for the baby) it is quite possible that correlation is not due to acetaminophen but due to whatever caused the woman to take acetaminophen.

        Sweden did a massive "sibling study" with like a quarter million pregnancies. When they looked only at the question "did you take acetaminophen during your pregnancy" and "was that baby diagnosed with autism" they found a small positive correlation. However, when they looked at siblings - the same mother having multiple children where she took acetaminophen during some pregnancies but not during others (to remove confounding factors of genetics and environment) that correlation vanished.

        There's another problem with this idea too. The use of acetaminophen during pregnancy has fallen quite a bit in the last 25 years or so - once there was a warning label on Advil a lot of pregnant women decided to limit their use of not that specific drug but everything similar. But despite that significant decrease in the use of acetaminophen, the rate of autism diagnosed significantly increased during that time. That's a huge problem with the acetaminophen theory!

        What's really weird about the whole thing is that everyone who loves RFK Jr loves him because he's antivax. They wanted to see him installed because he'd crack down on the MMR vaccine all the conspiracy theorists have been claiming is the cause of autism for years. Many of them are furious, and feel betrayed, and have a whole new set of conspiracy theories about the "vaccine industry" paying him or Trump off.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: xTube?

          "was that baby diagnosed with autism"

          Please re-read the post, it says "ADHD", not autism. Two different things.

          1. notyetanotherid

            Re: xTube?

            Symptoms of what would now be described as ADHD were written about in medical literature in the 18th century, whereas paracetamol was not first made until the mid 19th.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: xTube?

              Also worth noting that in the 18th century people were given mercury compounds for syphilis and they still treated scurvy with sulphuric acid and blood-letting.

              And only a century prior, women with 'hysteria' were hanged or burned as witches.

              The historical existence of something does not rule out more modern influences as also being contributing factors.

              Paracetamol has a benzine ring in it and has a well documented history of liver toxicity.

              1. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: xTube?

                > Paracetamol has a benzine ring in it and has a well documented history of liver toxicity.

                “ Acetaminophen toxicity is the second most common cause of liver transplantation worldwide and the most common cause of liver failure in the United States.‘

                [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441917/ ]

                This would suggest there is a high incidence rate of Tylenol overdosing in the US…

              2. Ozchemist

                Re: xTube?

                Lots of chemicals have a benzene ring - including essential amino acids like phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan without which you couldn't function. Having a benzene ring is signficantly different to "being" benzene.

                The liver metabolizes 89% of acetaminophen, leading to saturation of the sulfation and glucuronidation pathways and depletion of hepatic glutathione stores. The result is the production of a toxic, highly reactive compound (N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine (NAPQI)) that causes a cascade of oxidative hepatocyte injury.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: xTube?

                  Oh yes, the benzine ring EVERYWHERE! Get a bit of ring strain ;)

                  It is the basis for some very stable chemicals and some very dangerous chemicals. As you correctly detail one of the metabolic byproducts is very toxic.

            2. Dinanziame Silver badge
              Angel

              Re: xTube?

              To be fair "symptoms of ADHD" are so broad and vague that it's difficult to find any behavior that might not be considered a symptom. For example, being noisy, being quiet and being silent can all be symptoms of ADHD.

              1. Roland6 Silver badge

                Re: xTube?

                > it's difficult to find any behavior that might not be considered a symptom.

                Not true ! :)

                There is a significant raised level of ADHD and similar diagnosis’s among private school kids. Investigation show it is because it entitles them to increased “exam support”…

                Next time some private school kid or their parent goes on about their exam success, ask if they had an ADHD et al diagnosis, in which case reduce the grades by 1~2 grades ir. an A* is equivalent to a state school B.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: xTube?

                  Soo... ADHD can be faked?

                  1. Anonymous Coward
                    Anonymous Coward

                    Re: xTube?

                    Yes .... It can ... sorry to say !!!

                    Doctors are NOT Gods and can make mistakes as well !!!

                    There are multiple forms of ADHD ... the following is one:

                    Inattentive Type ADHD

                    Adults with inattentive type ADHD have more difficulty with their focus, attention, and memory.

                    This is the most common subtype in adults.[2]

                    These individuals are more likely to notice the following:[3]

                    Having trouble organizing their documents or belongings

                    Losing focus quickly when working on boring tasks

                    Having many distracting and unrelated thoughts

                    Avoiding tasks that require them to stay focused

                    Getting distracted in conversations

                    Struggling with time management

                    Forgetting to do an errand or task

                    Overlooking important details

                    Making careless mistakes

                    Misplacing important items

                    Please tell me you could NOT fake these symptoms ???

                    I know that most kids could IF it gave them more time in exams !!!

                    :)

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: xTube?

                      I should have used the sarcasm tag.... I thought maybe the use of 'Soo...' was a good enough giveaway.

                      "Misplacing important items"

                      I've been missing my nice wire cutters and good socket tester for about 2 years. Do I have ADHD?

                      "Having trouble organizing their documents or belongings"

                      So not being OCD? I've only just paired up my clean socks and I washed them Saturday. And the reason my wire cutters and socket tester are missing are probably cos I didn't put them straight back into my toolbox.

                      "Avoiding tasks that require them to stay focused" "Losing focus quickly when working on boring tasks"

                      Um, isn't that called 'being normal'? And given that we 'entertain' kids with mindless repetitive crap on TV and stupid games on ipads that encourage them to paw at the screen for a dopamine hit it is not surprising that no-one has an attention span of more than a few seconds.

                      Can't focus, got ADHD, focus too much, got the autisms. Focus too much on not focusing, got the AuDHD.

                      Does walking into a room and suddenly forgetting why I went there mean ADHD?

                      Fill kids with sugar and chemicals, especially young boys, and they won't focus or sit still. Do not provide kids with enough physical activity to let them burn off some energy, they won't focus or sit still. Keep them 'quiet' with spongebob and dopamine games, they won't focus or sit still.

                    2. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: xTube?

                      One of the really key indicators with ADHD is the way they process ADHD meds, which are stimulants.

                      A neurotypical brain goes hyper, an ADHD brain calms down.

                      That's hard to fake.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: xTube?

        And NONE of those studies found a connection.

        Hence Trump is spreading misinformation and outright lies.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Politicise Everything

    How is medical disinformation and lies political? I know it's the trend to politicise absolutely everything, but come on. Where are the grownups in the room?

    I want to politicise how people eat scones, if you put jam first then cream, you're a Communist and need to be silenced. As for those that pronounce scone scone... Hanging is too good for them.

    And people that pronounce tomato tomato, my blood boils.

    1. Bitsminer

      Re: Politicise Everything

      Politics is defined as a small group of people influencing a larger group.

      Therefore, everything is politics.

      "Get over it," to misquote some influential somebody.

      1. nobody who matters Silver badge

        Re: Politicise Everything

        "Politics is defined as a small group of people influencing a larger group."

        Perhaps try looking up the definition of politics in a reputable dictionary ;)

        It doesn't quite mean what you appear to think it does.

        1. Tim99 Silver badge

          Re: Politicise Everything

          My late father, a senior local government officer, said: Everything is politics - somebody wants something, even if it is just to keep what they already have - you have to deal with it (dealing with it is sometimes ignoring them).

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Politicise Everything

      If they remove medical disinformation, then they should remove all medical disinformation, not just COVID related. Otherwise this gives quacks legitimacy. See! Our content is up, so our quackery is legit!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Politicise Everything

        In those days, if you didn't notice, the big emergency was COVID, with a lot of scared people looking for any way to return not "normality", not a few loons folowed by a small number of other loons.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Politicise Everything

      "As for those that pronounce scone scone... Hanging is too good for them."

      Just you wait until someone calls it a 'biscuit' and puts lumpy gravy on it!

      "How is medical disinformation and lies political"

      It becomes political when there is an agenda behind what is being said. The disinformation about the origin was to cover up the fact that there was a potentially leaky biolab in china getting funding from the USA that may well have been doing something that the US government had been specifically told was not happening.

    4. alain williams Silver badge

      Re: Politicise Everything

      How is medical disinformation and lies political?

      Come out with enough lies and people tire and start to not believe anything that is in the news/Internet, then they only look at sport and social gossip. That is great: when Trump then abuses another part of the constitution it is ignored by most and he gets away with it.

    5. DS999 Silver badge

      It is all about the demonization of "experts"

      That's straight out of the authoritarian playbook, where you demonize those seen as having higher "status" like doctors, professors, and all other subject matter experts. If there is no one to turn to for the truth other than Dear Leader and his designated lackeys, the populace is easier to control.

      It is also easier for the leader to control incompetent people appointed to a job they are not qualified for. They don't have the backing of those they oversee, and are therefore easy to replace on a whim. And because there are no experts to turn to, the new guy can said the exact opposite of what the previous guy said if that's what you want, and the populace will not question it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It is all about the demonization of "experts"

        "That's straight out of the authoritarian playbook"

        Indeed, the government breaking one of the fundamentals of their own constitution by forcing private companies to do their bidding.

        "where you demonize those seen as having higher "status""

        Isn't that exactly what you are doing right now? Demonizing doctors and scientists who don't agree with your personal world view?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It is all about the demonization of "experts"

          > Isn't that exactly what you are doing right now?

          There is a vast difference between an individual posting opinions on some internet forum, and the government in power actively seeking to undermine science and scientists, medical professionals and organizations, universities and schools, etc.

    6. rafff

      Re: Politicise Everything

      "How is medical disinformation and lies political?"

      Everything that has a bearing on how society is run is political, and that include religion and medicine.

    7. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

      Re: Politicise Everything

      Well I'm a communist now apparently. Time to learn the words to The Internationale.

  3. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

    And any AI being trained on internet content which includes this stuff will be - how reliable?

    1. Helcat Silver badge

      About as reliable as it is now.

      Interesting article on why AI hallucinates: Apparently the researchers were responding positively when AI returned something for a question, even if it was wrong, as long as it was in an authoritative way. If it didn't give an answer, or admitted it didn't know it didn't get a response. So the people training AI literally taught it to lie just to get approval. Much like a child.

      And why can't it give decent responses? Because there's often conflicting information and AI won't know which to trust unless told, which means it develops baked in bias. But if it's only given one view to work from: That's what it'll think is the truth. Hence when I was asking it about William the Conqueror and what he did in regards to slavery (made it illegal to buy/sell people in Britain) it came back with a rather warped and twisted response regarding buying and selling Irishmen...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pedo Jordan

    That guy is quite the tool. Look him up. He was there during the OH state wrestling fondling.

  5. Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck Silver badge

    Suck the Nazi in office harder - you aren't 14 so he's having trouble getting off...

  6. Marty McFly Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Google search cannot be trusted. Ever.

    <Judge me however you want on this topic, it doesn't change what Google did. This information needs to be shared.>

    COVID vaccine cards. This was a simple template produced by the US CDC for standardized mass printing. It didn't matter what search parameters used, that template could NOT be found on the Internet anywhere with Google's search.

    After looking at some alternate search engines, the template was eventually located on multiple individual state CDC websites. Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maine, etc. Every one of these states had their version of the CDC's COVID guidelines. Buried in the document was the template for the vaccine card, ready to print.

    NONE of these official documents, hosted on official state .gov websites, was available in Google search!

    To be clear, each of the individual state documents included 100+ pages of VERY valuable information about dealing with COVID. However, because they also contained the COVID vaccine card template, Google actively and intentionally suppressed them from their search results.

    That is a betrayal of trust from Google which can never be forgiven. They willingly suppressed official government information in a time of crisis when it was needed the most. NEVER trust their search results to be conclusive.

    Seriously. Pick a different search engine now, and implement it in your favorite browser. That way when the SHTF you are already using a trustworthy information source.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Google search cannot be trusted. Ever.

      Obviously it was about trying (and failing) to prevent forgeries.

      Somehow all the technology in the US couldn't add a QR code to a signed vertification link to prevent forgeries like the rest of the western world?

  7. Expect Great Things

    Google search is just generally broken now. No doubt they were censoring COVID-related content, but it might not make a lot of difference against the overall background of failure to find. (As an aside, the amazing thing is that Bing is carefully calibrated to suck even more deeply.) You have to wonder whether it wouldn’t be a fantastic contrarian move in this time of AI-madness to invest in a search engine that actually delivers search results to the user. Maybe a company with some sort of aspirational motto, like “Don’t be evil”, say.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
  8. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Difficult to see how YT could be worse than it already is

    But somehow they've found a way, and their algorithm will pipe it into everyone's home, office, and mobile phone.

    All you need to do is start with no account and no preferences and it will end up pushing conspiracy theories and neo-Nazis. This will just add two more rabbit holes to fall down. No wonder Trump wants this, it messes with your brain until you turn into a MAGAt.

    1. blu3b3rry Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: Difficult to see how YT could be worse than it already is

      Sounds like they're trying to turn it into the video version of xitter!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just like Russian, listen to what Trmupers say

    They will do exactly the opposite.

    Their mode is the "Wolf and the Lamb" tale from Aesop - they cry the lamb downstream pollute their water, to have an excuse to eat it.

    Which shows how old is this behaviour . one would think people would be able to spot it after a couple of millenia, still there are people who wish to be the wolf's pals - even if it will eat them too one day.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Just like Russian, listen to what Trmupers say

      "still there are people who wish to be the wolf's pals - even if it will eat them too one day."

      Doesn't the current version involve leopards and faces?

  10. Dfre

    Wow, Google went from "Don't be evil" to "Do the right thing" to "Only do evil" pretty damned fast.

    The late, great comedian Bill Hicks had a great term that he used to describe a different type of person, but I think it applies to Google here: "Suckers of Satan's C*ck".

  11. hammarbtyp

    Google evolution

    2015 - Don't be evil

    2025 - Don't (not) be evil

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Google DO be evil, clearly.

    "Third-party fact-checkers have often proven hostile to conservative talking points that clash with reality."

    Meaning, of course, that they were <ahem> doing their job right...

    It's pretty clear that ALL the giant corporations are happy to advance authoritarian aims and push frauds and falsehoods, so long as they make money from it.

    Regulate the hell out of them. Failing that, burn them all down.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fact or misinformation ?

    The FDA asked a federal judge for 55 years to complete a FOIA request for data and information on the approval of Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine.

    You decide!

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trouble is

    governments are also using misinformation or classify as misinformation everything they do not want you to hear.

    So who can claim the title of white knight here ? Who owns the truth and, in the end, after all what is the truth ?

    "Shut up, brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!" -- Homer Jay Simpson

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't feed trolls, literally

    YouTube must at least demonetize political videos or known polarizing content.

    Because foreign adversaries indirectly bribe content makers by generously supplying likes and comments through troll farms. While the vloggers make lots of money from ads on such popular videos, thinking there is genuine interest in such content.

  16. Whiznot

    Trusted News Initiative

    The MSM and the tech giants signed on to the Trusted News Initiative agreeing to report no information, even if true, that would make people hesitant to take COVID vaccines. I was injured by a Moderna booster. When I tried to write about my injury I was censored and banned from social media. Twitter kicked me off three times and I was permanently banned from ArsTechnica. People are afraid to look at the elephants in the room--excess death and exploding cancer rates. The truth couldn't be hidden. Now the mRNA platform is deservedly dead.

    1. AnonymousCward

      2+2 != 5

      Trusted News Initiative has no bearing on whether any given news organisation agrees to run a story or not, it’s just a shared pool of intelligence regarding spam and dross that’s being spread about without appropriate sources. What you’re claiming is the equivalent of a software developer claiming VirusTotal is conspiring to block their software from being used because their product is being flagged by a handful of anti-virus vendors.

      Even the organisation behind the TNI (the BBC) ran stories critical of COVID vaccines, initially promoting our British-made AstraZeneca vaccine for using its more traditional approach but later slamming it when it ironically turned out that the far less battle tested mRNA vaccines turned out to be safer for younger women. They very appropriately covered arguments made by rebellious medical professionals arguing why they didn’t want to be vaccinated, which covered awful (thought to be temporary) side-effects of repeated doses and the belief at the time that the vaccines would provide at most 3 months of protection, meaning some staff would be on a constant repeat cycle of feeling sick. They also covered stories regarding deaths from blood clots, young people with heart issues and many other awful side effects, including people who died as a result of receiving vaccines even as early as 2021.

      What Google, Microsoft and some social media companies did was their own stupid, lazy choice, and it laid bare the fact that the systems we use are only as trustworthy as those in charge of them. When they aggressively curated basic search results (through whitelisting) to always point to regional government supplied sources, that was a step far beyond anything the TNI ever could have been responsible for.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Every wonder why Tylenol has the big print of "Do NOT take with any other drug containing acetaminophen (prescription or non-prescription). If you are not sure whether a drug contains acetaminophen, ask a doctor or pharmacist."?

    It destroys your liver. I never understood the warning until an ER nurse explained it to me. Typically, they have teenagers come in after fainting suicide by taking a bottle of Tylenol, sadly they are immediately place on the liver donor recipient list. The vast majority never make it and succumb to liver failure.

    The scary part is a lot of people ingest more than the recommended dosage of 4,000 mg / day due to chronic pain (or mixing it with alcohol) without realizing it.

    The other "odd" anomaly the ER nurse told me, is that the hospital was noticing a substantial number of patients do not respond to relieving effects of acetaminophen: pain relief, fever reducer if taken blindly (i.e. the patient wasn't told it was acetaminophen). This was staring to worry them.

    Sadly, I'm one of those people where acetaminophen has zero effectiveness for pain relief or fever reduction.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > Sadly, I'm one of those people where acetaminophen has zero effectiveness for pain relief or fever reduction.

      The unstated implication of using the word “sadly”, is that you are one of those now on the liver transplant list due to excessive consumption of acetaminophen…

    2. stewwy

      I'm the same, Asprin works fortunately and If I get desperate I'll make willow bark tea which also works.

    3. AnonymousCward

      Cannot be stated enough

      To quote NICE, the authority on drugs: “Overdose: Nausea and vomiting, the only early features of poisoning, usually settle within 24 hours. Persistence beyond this time, often associated with the onset of right subcostal pain and tenderness, usually indicates development of hepatic necrosis.” (hepatic necrosis = liver death)

      It’s also notable that for people with a low body weight or who are regular drinkers of alcohol, even the typical safe therapeutic limit is potentially very risky for them, especially if taken for chronic pain of any kind. The idea that paracetamol (acetaminophen) is the safest thing anyone can take, while a popular myth, is not true. What is true is that it’s one of the most well tested drugs we can ever take, we know extremely well under what circumstances it is safe to take for pain relief, and we therefore know it is very safe for a lot of people to do so without having to think too hard about it. For some people, low-dose ibuprofen or aspirin (but not both, don’t mix those two) is going to be the safer choice, but there’s also scenarios where that isn’t true either, everyone is different.

      TL;DR: Common sense says don’t go taking more of any given drug than you actually need, and if the drug you’re taking isn’t prescribed by a doctor, then that means you should take as little as you need to!

  18. wally1

    2 questions for the people testifying:

    1) Do you have emails showing said 'coercion' from the government officials

    2) If no, name and shame, and get that person on the stand in front of Congress

    Ask 'namee' from 1/2 who authorized them to do it.

    Goto 1, repeat until you get to the top of the authorizations.

    Not hard, unless Zuck/Google are full of $hit.

  19. stewwy

    So even more right wing drivel forced in front of my brain, good luck with that, I'm as left wing as they come. All that I view probably reflects that,

    and I still get the nonsense from GB "news" force fed to me whenever I search for anything newslike (is that a word? it should be)

  20. ch3252

    So revealing to see corporate USA so enthusiastically complicit with Project 2025.

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