Sainsbury's eyes up shoplifters with live facial recognition

Sainsbury's, Britain's second-largest supermarket chain, has caught the attention of privacy campaigners by launching an eight-week trial of live facial recognition (LFR) tech in two of its stores to curb shoplifting. A survey of the grocer's customers in July indicated a majority support for the use of LFR to protect staff …

[wolfetone]

They'll jump through all these fucking hoops, use this invasive technology, and do everything BUT replace the self service tills with actual tills manned by actual people.

Majority of the thefts from these supermarkets stem from people cutting the barcode out of a 500g pack of Rice Krispies (as an example) and scanning that instead of the barcode for the 500g steak. Try doing that with a person behind a till, it won't happen.

But no. That costs them money.

[Wellyboot]

Does that also bypass the RFID tag on the meat wrapping being read at the till & exit?

[BartyFartsLast]

Firstly, you live in a dodgy area if the food in your local supermarkets are rfid tagged and secondly, you don't know how antitheft systems work if you think they read the tags as you exit the store.

[wolfetone]

You are also reliant on the security guard who is on minimum wage to tackle and check everyone who sets the buzzer off.

[Blazde]

RFID tags are probably even less reliable than facial recognition. When my local store used them 5-10 years ago they constantly set the buzzer off, sometimes with 3 or 4 people leaving or milling around the detectors so it was impossible to know who triggered it. At least in the cases it was definitely me it was simply because they hadn't been deactivated properly by the checkout staff (how does that even work now with self-checkout?). The guards were wise to the false positives and always just smiled and waved people on while rushing to switch off the buzzer. After a short time most of the shoppers got wise too and just carried on walking. It wasn't uncommon to hear it going off when I entered the store or was still in the veg section, and then again when I was leaving in the same visit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single time I went into/out of our local Morrisons the alarm went off. I'd often drive to a different store to avoid the glaring looks you got on the way in/out despite Morrisons being bang across the road from our house.

Walked in one day, alarm blaring (as usual) and a new security guard called me over. "here we go again" I thought. I explained it happened every time, walking in and out, his first question "I bet you've got a football season ticket card in your wallet". I passed him my card, he walked over to the door scanner, brushed it past, alarm started blaring.

"Happens all the time" he said, so frequently they (security and the rest of the staff) pretty much ignore it going off.

I do wonder how many people were driven off, to never shop there again, because they were made to feel like a shoplifter because they had a bloody season ticket in their pocket. Madness.

[Anonymous Coward]

Years, no decades ago when this all started they had RFID tags with a little strip that was burned out by a tool that staff used at checkout.

We discovered these on products one of the managers had bought at a local DIY store, I think it was B&Q, and as RFID tags were new they were very enthusiastic at following up any alarm (I suspect they had a serious theft problem).

We, of course, quickly worked out how they worked and fixed the broken circuit in a way that made it look it wasn't disabled properly (it was foil, so not that hard to create a flake that 'accidentally' covered the gap), then inserted it into the jacket of the manager. It took a long time until a haggard looking manager returned from his next shopping trip there..

[YetAnotherXyzzy]

My favorite hardware store uses RFID tags on their higher value items, and there is a sensor at the exit. Every single time I shopped there I would set it off, even when not having purchased anything. Happily they are nice people and there was never any drama, but the question of how was on my mind for more than it should have. Once when that happened I took off my shoes (purchased elsewhere long ago) and asked the check-out girl to run them through the device to deactivate the tags. Sure enough that was the fix and I never set off the alarm there again.

[Like a badger]

"Does that also bypass the RFID tag on the meat wrapping being read at the till & exit?"

I've watched people walk out of a store with as many bottles of vodka (or other spirit) as they could carry under their coat. It set off the RFID alarm, but then what? They just hurry along and staff rightly shrug their shoulders. Many police forces have publicly stated they won't respond to shoplifting reports, so those police forces have effectively decriminalised theft. I don't see how LFR makes any difference? Maybe if shop staff are notified, then a few timid shoplifters can be actually and visibly watched by staff and thus deterred, but for the brazen it won't make a scrap of difference.

[Will Godfrey]

For some unknown reason I frequently trigger these alarms. I just ignore them, and so far have never been stopped.

[Anonymous Coward]

@ Will Godfrey: You have to wonder why the Reg offers us an icon of somebody loading up the big inside pockets of their coat?

[bazza]

So the problem with developments such as this is that supermarkets will get it into their systems that someone looks like someone they think is a shop lifter and won't let them in. If they've got CCTV of you repeatedly setting off their alarm on exit and walking off, you might find they stop letting you in. It's a recipe for lots of innocent people suffering all the consequences of a conviction for shop lifting without any due process having taken place.

I suspect the supermarkets will be alive to creating such a situation - they'd cop some pretty large fines eventually. But in the meantime... What I suspect will happen first is that their staff will get wary of challenging people that the systems alerts them to,

[PCScreenOnly]

Stop entering store

In the home bargains /b&m case, the recognition alerted as the customer attempted to come in so they stopped them before they had a chance

Only problem with this news article is that it was showing a facial cockup

[Anonymous Coward]

My daughter worked at M&S food hall and Dunkin Donuts during her uni stint and she was told explicitly both times to never, ever confront any shoplifters as the store would not gaurantee her safety. She was told to simply wave at the security guard and point at the suspect perp. She said the number of times shoplifters would just hurry out before she even had time to wave to the guard on the door as the guard either engrossed in his phone or looking the wrong way.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me I paid for a bottle of wine at a self service till recently and nobody (including me) thought to remove the security device on the top. It didn't set off an alarm and it was a right hassle to cut it off with a hacksaw at home.

[Efer Brick]

Most of those are easily removed.

[Ball boy]

You seem a man of the world^*. Umm, asking for a friend: do you know of cheap printer that copes well with sticky labels?

^*Other sexes are available.

[wolfetone]

A Canon Colour Printer weighs the same as a bag of King Edwards Spuds.

Follow me for more shopping tips.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Can you afford the replacement ink for the printer, or will that have to be lifted?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is very little ink in those cartridges, so - I'd suggest using the code from an A6 notebook (softcover).

[elsergiovolador]

Try doing that with a person behind a till, it won't happen.

Sure minimum wage worker is going to protect big corporation margins with their life.

[BartyFartsLast]

I agree with most of what you say but I had a bloody hard time trying and failing to convince two checkout operators and a supervisor that their 10p yellow stickered bogof pizzas should add 10p, not deducting the full £3.60 price of one pizza from my bill every time they scanned two.

So I gave up and loaded a shopping trolley with them and paid less than a tenner for over a hundred quids worth of other shopping.

[John Brown (no body)]

"Because computer say yes".

And is exactly why, when Sainsbury asked staff and customers about using LFR, they all said yes. 'Cos to most people, not only are computers infallible (despite their own real, personal experience with them), when asked, they assumed that LFR works all the time and at worst, might not spot a shoplifter. No one even hinted that such a thing as a false positive might exist and how that might affect an innocent person.

[Empire of the Pussycat]

"Try doing that with a person behind a till, it won't happen."

That just leaves the problem of the ones that 'miss' the scanner when checking out their mates' shopping.

[ToothHurty]

Have you seen the price of rice crispies?!

[DS999]

Where I shop they have self service lanes with 4 or 6 checkouts watched by one person (and I would assume someone watching cameras from above and/or the front of the scanner) so they should easily be able to catch blatant stealing like ringing up a steak for $2. Maybe not every time but if you do it more than once you're gonna get popped eventually - and they'll have it and you on camera so it'll be an easy case to prove. They wouldn't even necessarily need to chase you down at the time, just get the video and your license number when you leave then report to the police. They could also blacklist the card you used to pay from their systems, report to the card company and so forth. Sure there's cash but I can't remember the last time I've seen someone pay at self checkout with cash.

While I've posted many times about the failings of facial recognition in a many to many situation like this, if all they use it for is to tell the people watching overhead cameras which people to pay a bit closer attention to - i.e. watch them as they walk down the aisles and during self-checkout, it isn't quite as bad. For someone who is mis-identified and not doing anything wrong it won't matter and they (and no one else in the store) will know they are being treated as a "suspect". If they accost someone at the door because the person watching thought "maybe they grabbed something and stuck it in their coat pocket as they rounded that corner where I have a small blind spot" then they deserve all the bad publicity etc. they get. Of course they could do that with or without facial recognition.

[trindflo]

The problems are:

- you become banned from the establishment

- there is no regulation or recourse to the technology

- falsely adding someone you don't like to the database isn't a crime

- now add the bad stuff you know about the tech (like it thinks all minorities look alike)

[Anonymous Coward]

There's reports of supermarkets selling more kilos of carrots per day than they've had in the shop... Unfortunately we live in a world where, if you give folks the chance to choose which price tag (bar code) is used for items they've picked up off the shelf themselves, a percentage will take the opporunity to rip off the shop.

[Anonymous Coward]

It'll cost them money using surveillance and autonomous tills. I sometimes think people don't like people. Must admit there's quite a few I'm not keen on but generally I prefer people to machines.

[Chloe Cresswell]

Faces...

I wonder how well it recognises faces when you still wear a mask when shopping...

[steamnut]

Re: Faces...

Or, maybe, wear a face covering as part of your religion?

[Ian Johnston]

Re: Faces...

Nuns?

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Faces...

So when the shoplifters make a run for it...

"Nuns on the run"

Enhance disguise by wearing a Whoopi Goldberg mask

[DancesWithPoultry]

Re: Faces...

> Nuns?

Reverse! Reverse! Reverse!

[NewModelArmy]

Re: Faces...

Covid is still a thing - dashboard from the UK health :

https://ukhsa-dashboard.data.gov.uk/respiratory-viruses/covid-19

People with compromised immune systems need to be careful.

[Steve Button]

Re: Faces...

"be careful" how exactly? By wearing a facemask that doesn't work? Grow up.

[NewModelArmy]

Re: Faces...

If you saw someone in public wearing a face mask, such as at Sainsburys, would you challenge them ?

[Steve Button]

Re: Faces...

Challenge them how exactly? I'd assume that they are neurotic and misinformed, if they are concerned about viruses. But that's their problem so have at it. I might roll my eyes secretly.

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Faces...

And yet it still, to this day, triggers a response from you...

Remind me again who's the snowflake?

[Steve Button]

Re: Faces...

Yes, honestly I found the whole thing with everyone wearing masks quite dystopian and disturbing. When I see the odd 0.1% of people still wearing them now, I still find it a tiny bit jarring.

So, yes I'm a bit of a snowflake. But I honestly did find the whole thing quite disturbing. Still do, but it's fading. Like I was living in a zombie movie, but not quite that bad. Not just the masks, but the ever changing stupid rules from our stupid government.

I also found the whole thing a bit irrational and stupid, and still do. I guess 99.9% quietly agree with me now (but not on this forum), or else why isn't everyone wearing them coming into 'flu season? Or why didn't they last year?

And perhaps those 0.1% who still wear them are concerned about dust particles or something because of lung problems. Which would make more sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Faces...

I had several with skeleton jaws on them, some with image of blood dripping from razor sharp teeth, all printed on material that was as thin as a cotton shirt! I only wore them for a laugh to get a reaction, I knew the whole fecking facemask thing was a waste of time as most people I saw had them sitting below their noses thus negating the point of wearing them. I wore my stupid ones so I wouldn't get turned away at the local TESCO trying to buy a pint of milk while out on my mandatory 1 hour daily release from "home prison".

[Steve Button]

Re: Faces...

I never really wore one. I declared myself exempt (with good reasons). Only one time I was challenged in Homebase, when one of the staff said "Oooo, did you forget your mask" and I just explained that I was exempt. Was a little more worried in 2023 going through Germany on the train just before they lifted restrictions, so I got a doctor's letter. Never needed to use it though.

Even if they did work, it would only be useful between the very small time that you are infected and when you actually develop symptoms. Because once I developed symptoms, I'd self-isolate anyway. Even now, I would stay at home if I had a very bad cold. But they don't work, so really no point. I would not be able to go about my day wearing a "properly fitted FFP3 anyway", I would not be able to breathe.

[nobody who matters]

Re: Faces...

"Because once I developed symptoms, I'd self-isolate anyway."

Some people become infected, develop the disease and become infectious before they display any noticeable symptoms. Some people become infectious but never show or feel any symptoms at all,

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Faces...

Plus, the damn things work both ways, but the idiots never really got that.

[Roj Blake]

Re: Faces...

If you ever need surgery, you should tell the theatre staff not to bother wearing their masks.

[Cav]

Re: Faces...

"I also found the whole thing a bit irrational and stupid, and still do."

Then you were\are foolish. Masks, and all the other rules, worked for a covid pandemic. The purpose of masks was to prevent the spread of disease, something they do very well. Why else do you think doctors, dentists and surgeons use them? For self protection they are not good and were never supposed to be. The point is that they don't stop viruses from being inhaled but they do stop the spread of virion laden drops of mucus, because they are so much larger and cannot pass though the mask.

There is no need to wear masks for regular flu seasons. The majority have at least some immunity and many augment it with vaccination. And again, masks do not stop you inhaling viruses but they do reduce the amount of mucus droplets you inhale a little and definitely reduce the much more concentrated at source mucus that you exhale. So, the altruistic would be quite right to wear masks to help stop the spread of the flu - as long as they wore one before the onset of symptoms - even if those masks only provided a very low level of self protection.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Faces...

"the altruistic"

Translation: the smug virtue signallers.

As with a lot of PPE, the effectiveness of a mask is determined by how it is used. The un-trained, especially when re-using masks, will not have anything like the results of someone trained in how to put on a mask properly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Faces...

"be careful" how exactly? By wearing a facemask that doesn't work? Grow up.

I grant you probably the majority of facemasks are improperly used, and the majority including hospital issue are of criminally poor quality, but a properly worn FFP3 mask is highly effective at stopping airborne transmission. Still needs careful attention to hand washing as well, but done together they are a reliable protection measure for those (like my partner) who need them.

[Steve Button]

Re: Faces...

Seriously? Are you going for truth by assertion? Do you believe that if you say it enough times it becomes true? Can you point to studies the back that up? (Cochrane?)

Actually don't bother. You won't convince me, and I won't convince you. It's 2025 now.

It's like trying to convince someone that using crystals won't actually re-align their chakra.

But if it makes you and your partner feel better about yourself, then please go ahead I'm not going to try and stop you.

[mark l 2]

Re: Faces...

Well judging by the fact that facial recognition often gives false matches when its people of colour, then it probably just as bad at matching different people with face mask on as the same person.

[R Soul]

Re: Faces...

We are all people of colour.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Faces...

On the outside. But some people are incredibly beige

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Faces...

It's not easy, being green.

[Like a badger]

Re: Faces...

We are all people of colour.

So you claim. But I can think of two people I've worked with who were entirely monochrome. There was Liz, our "year in industry" placement who drank so much she'd bleached all colour from her being, and a top flight competition lawyer at a City law firm who I didn't know well enough to attribute the cause.

I suspect Liz is now a successful mid-career professional, likely a responsible mum. The lawyer is now of the age where he would likely be dead, but short of garlic, silver bullets, crucifixes and lead lined coffins I'm sure he's still around.

[Roj Blake]

Re: Faces...

A Keir Starmer mask, perhaps?

[PCScreenOnly]

Not surprised

When you go to your "sainsbury's local" to go and get some gabric conditioner and find it is no longer on the shelves and out back as it keeps getting nicked so you have to ask

I get it with some of the meats - again now out back, but fabric conditioner - I was left open mouthed (but with soft clothes)

Not so much the lack of staff and too much self service, it is just they come in grab and go. However, as they all have security and stll come in and nick, makes me wonder what the "security" guards are guarding...

[Like a badger]

Re: Not surprised

Strange thing to have to protect, fabric conditioner. Presumably its pretty low effectiveness means that the buyers are easily convinced by heavyweight marketing without relating to their actual lived experience, and therefore from the thieving orders?

Does that mean that tumble dryer sheets, calgon and the like need similar protection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not surprised

"Strange thing to have to protect, fabric conditioner."

A variation of this I guess:

https://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/

"Tide bottles have become ad hoc street currency, with a 150-ounce bottle going for either $5 cash or $10 worth of weed or crack cocaine."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Not surprised

Nothing surprises me much, I've been in TESCO and seen £1.50 choccy bars with those locked nets wrapped around them when I've been passing through some of the less salubrious areas of our wonderful capital. Bullet proof glass pay booths to stop people leaping the desk to nick fags and baccy. It's only when you go to some of the tougher spots in the country you realise what absolute fecking scum live among us and make good people's lives a misery with all the pointless security that does nothing to deter the vile pond-scum in our society.

[StewartWhite]

"Records of shoppers' faces will be immediately deleted if the software does not recognize their mug."

No they won't. It will be just like PC Plod who will claim beforehand that they'll delete DNA, fingerprints, facial recognition photos etc. but then we find out a while down the road that they've held on to them "to be on the safe side" supposedly but mainly because they view the general population merely as inevitable additions to the prison "gen pop".

I treat the assertion that this has anything to do with the safety of the few shop floor staff that are left and of the supermarket's customers with the same contempt that Sainsbury's has for the truth, i.e. that as with every vast corporation if it ain't about the £££ (or $$$ for our stateside chums) then it ain't nothing.

[Wellyboot]

Record of 'face' will be deleted, record of face details in hashed form for use by comparison algorithms, that info is marketing gold when tied to the phone tracking tech already in place.

[Blazde]

anything to do with the safety of the few shop floor staff that are left

It's actually hard to think of an easier way of further increasing abuse of staff than installing a controversial surveillance tech that's guaranteed to lead to false accusations.

Not only the dramatic increase in shop-lifting but also the abuse is surely partly caused by the inhuman self-service checkouts and the stress they cause.

[JT_3K]

I'm not saying I've got a fix for it but I'm struggling to find blame for the supermarkets here. The arrest/summons (not conviction) rate for reported crime dropped from 15% in 2019 (terrifyingly low) to 5.2% in early 2024. Last I heard (although I'm struggling to find a source) it was under 2% for the previous 12mths. The sheer volume of people just walking in to retail stores, picking what they want and walking out unchallenged is anecdotally skyrocketing as the police won't attend/investigate and simply issue a Crime Number so insurance carries the weight. Not necessarily saying I've fix for the police either.

Bearing in mind the legal impact of tackling the thieves (security, staff members or to the thieves themselves) and any lawsuit that might arise, and the lack of police support when it happens, and the lack of ramifications when it happens, are we really blaming the supermarkets from trying to at least do some basic policing and banning?

[Ball boy]

How's this going to help?

They can't be scanning people on the street before they come into the shop (err...can they? Even in the UK they Shirley can't get away with that!) so they only detect a bad 'un once they're already over the threshold. What happens? The lax security guard ejects said person? That might not end well, especially if the ID was faulty. I suppose they could follow them around the store to pressure them into not nicking anything...but that'd just mean the rest of the store is completely unguarded, allowing half a dozen 'unknown' people nick all the soap.

[Wellyboot]

Re: How's this going to help?

There is no presumption of privacy or anonymity in public in the UK so anyone can legally* video/photograph anyone on the street.

However, what you do with footage after that is covered by a lot of law.

* unless there's an unannounced terrorism orders in place for the area but that can get you arrested for wearing the wrong t-shirt.

[Richard 31]

Hmm

Well, the Oldfield park one is my nearest Sainsburys local, wandering around the other day all the staff had those personal chest recorders on. Definitely not in favour of this nonsense, and of course it will be used against staff too, maybe not today, but soon.

But almost can't blame Sainsburys when the police response to shoplifting is 'meh' it's not a surprise they are taking things into thier own hands.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

They just need to call the shoplifters 'scumbags' and the police will come running!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

They just need to call the shoplifters 'scumbags' and the police will come running

"No, no, it's worse than that officer, they tweeted something mildly unpleasant! On the internet!"

"Ah, in that case we'll send a whole squad of officers, they'll be there in 3 minutes..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

""No, no, it's worse than that officer, they tweeted something mildly unpleasant! On the internet!"..."Ah, in that case we'll send a whole squad of officers, they'll be there in 3 minutes..."

Three minutes? In the case of Linehan, the police waited, poised and ready to strike for three months to be able to arrest him with five plod deployed at the airport. And the alleged "offence" was a tweet made in the US, so not even under our cretinous coppers' jurisdiction. Meanwhile, when some low life groped my wife's arse in a shop whilst his partner was paying at an adjacent till, it was all caught on CCTV, the police sounded sympathetic, but gave up tracing the git when his partner's bank declined an ID request (shop shared CCTV and transaction details) supposedly for GDPR reasons. I'm pretty sure that the police could have used the caveats of GDPR to demand the data, what matters is that despite having it reported, recorded on CCTV, and a digital evidence trail that could have led them back to the perp, they gave up very easily.

I'm not sure who the police work for these days; If there's a mad axeman in my garden I'll certainly phone my local force, but that's only because they've got a monopoly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQaq3ArAak

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

"Mildly unpleasant"?

That says lots about you; https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/lucy-connolly-v-the-king/

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Its not like she was addressing a crowd and calling for her opponents to have their throats slit.

And yes I know he pled not guilty and went to trial and was found not guilty. But Ricky Jones had good legal support.

[Why Not?]

Re: Hmm

armed officers!

[Anonymous Coward]

Records of shoppers' faces will be immediately deleted if the software does not recognize their mug.

A bit thick here but if it doesn't record the faces how does it recognise those faces subsequently ?

If it's preloaded with pictures of known culprits whence those images sourced ?

All a bit sad if the theft is of food to feed themselves and it's Sainsbury's not Harrod's so not a lot of caviar involved.

Here in AU the supermarkets use this technology to identify the product itself and verify the scanned code corresponds. Any inconsistency the self service attendant is required to validate the purchase to proceed.

The tech is surprisingly good at identifying fresh fruit and vege with easily confused fruit^† like cucumber and zucchini (courgette) presented as selectable options.

_{† it's the seeds you know.}

[Pascal Monett]

Re: Records [..] will be immediately deleted if the software does not recognize their mug.

Exactly that.

How can it "recognize" if the previous record is erased ?

I smell a load of bull here.

[elsergiovolador]

UK Fascism

If you ever needed proof Britain is sliding into fascism, here it is: government engineers a policing crisis, then corporations like Sainsbury’s step in with live facial recognition. This isn’t about safety - it’s the textbook merger of state power and corporate surveillance, where secret watchlists replace due process and supermarkets become the frontline of authoritarian control.

[Like a badger]

Re: UK Fascism

Don't forget ID cards are back on the agenda too, allegedly to help deal with the migrant "challenge".

This is all a home secretary's wet dream: Not only have we got mass surveillance by CCTV, we've got a national ANPR system to track vehicles, we have warrantless digital surveillance covering all forms of comms and data, including financial transactions, phone location data, anything a citizen posts online, and we've got plod and shops deploying LFR without a "by your leave". Could argue smart meters are part of this, I'm less convinced that they're a source of any high quality intel, it's more part of the broader government approach to citizen data, that if it can be collected by the authorities and stored it should be.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: UK Fascism

And many of the population seem to think Farage will be the saviour.. Sigh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQaq3ArAak

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: UK Fascism

LOL! Raskin is a grade A moron. His idea of a 'peaceful protest' is people destroying and burning down buildings.

Russia russia russia Trump Trump Trump... that is their broken record.

It has been shown time and time again that the Democrats are only for free speech that they agree with. We saw under Biden the various attempts to silence people on social media who were speaking out against the regime. As the old saying goes, if politicians didn't have double standards they would have no standards at all.

[Like a badger]

Re: UK Fascism

It has been shown time and time again that the Democrats are only for free speech that they agree with. We saw under Biden the various attempts to silence people on social media who were speaking out against the regime. As the old saying goes, if politicians didn't have double standards they would have no standards at all.

Fuck off. This article has nothing to do with the sadly polarised and broken politics of the Disunited States.

[Why Not?]

Re: UK Fascism

so glad the we have the same party in charge as we did during windrush!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: UK Fascism

This is also the end result of having a succession of governments who have been ideologically captured by a tiny minority who have touted the line that hurting someones feelings is literally the end of the world.

'Business have insurance for this' was one of the lines spouted during various riots in the USA.

Was it a bunch of google employees who invaded the management offices and refused to leave unless their 'demands' were met? 'I am important! I demand!'

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: UK Fascism

We were at a relatively nearby sainsbury's in a village we typically don't frequent. While checking out our self scanned items, a pair of 20 something women next to us with 5 full bags of groceries were doing the same; they scanned all of 5 items, paid and left.

As is usual there wasn't a store employee around that I could have alerted while they were still around. And as there isn't another shop withing walking distance to this sainsbury's, all the items were almost certainly from that shop. (I don't do well with confrontation, I was not going to ask them myself)

Anyway, more to the point, several weeks later one of the local news stories has the usualy poor quality CCTV photo of two similar women who had done the same trick at a supermarket 20 miles or so away, asking for info.

So I do get why a supermarket chain would consider doing something like this. I'm not saying it is right, just that I understand why they'd want to.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: UK Fascism

> self scanned items

> they scanned all of 5 items, paid and left

I don't see a problem here... they're not store employees and they haven't been trained, so it shouldn't be a surprise if they make a mistake.

People ripping off a self-scan till is an own-goal on the store's part.

[Why Not?]

Re: UK Fascism

They (supermarkets) made their bed, I'm hardly sorry for them.

[xyz]

I must have that "look"

in that I get followed around by store detectives quite a lot...and bloody useful they are too. If you can't find something, you just ask them, and they can't wait to get you out of the shop, so everything is fast and efficient. It's like having your own personal shopper squad!

Out of interest why does the gov person Rayner look like Catherine Tate about to say "whatever" or "am I bovvered?"

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: I must have that "look"

Is it Catherine Tate playing "Rayner" who's been kidnapped by aliens but the government is covering it up?

[Wellyboot]

Re: I must have that "look"

Yes a Dr Who plot would be a far more sane explanation for recent events.

The PM can only really sack her as Housing minister, while he can technically nominate someone else as deputy PM there'd be an instant party rebellion as the sticking plaster holding the very left and not so left wings together is ripped off. As the directly elected party deputy leader she has the mandate for staying put as deputy PM until she either resigns or the internal party process to remove her takes place.

I love democracy in action, we've not watched a good Labour party political knife fight while in government for quite a long while.

[Why Not?]

Re: I must have that "look"

Rachel thieves in the frame?

[Wellyboot]

Re: I must have that "look"

Nah. Too busy planning the next hold up.

[PCScreenOnly]

Recall Home Bargain / B&M had a problem

I recall from the news that someone had problems getting into one of the above stores due to facial recognition

So not completely flawless

As I mentioned earlier, I do get it. Bigger issue is the police not doing anything against shop lifitng and the supposed "not checking if less than £100" (or whatever figure it is)

[Like a badger]

Re: Recall Home Bargain / B&M had a problem

Is Home Bargains the outfit with the cut out copper in the window? Tells you a lot about their opinion of their customers. Although the worst always used to be Toys R Us, whose entire stores were designed and signed to alert potential shoppers that they're all thieving criminals.

[Why Not?]

Re: Recall Home Bargain / B&M had a problem

apparently the false copper is very effective

[DoctorPaul]

Re: Recall Home Bargain / B&M had a problem

It's all in the eyes apparently

[Wellyboot]

Re: Recall Home Bargain / B&M had a problem

£100 theft not being worth police time when the theft rate is 1-2 per week per outlet¹ appears very inefficient in police time at face value, however, the economic model being used by the thieves here was well documented two centuries ago by Dickens.

10 gang member each committing 10 offenses daily of £100 (face value) each are raking in £10,000 per day², it's an easy way to generate the seed capital needed for more lucrative enterprises such as cigarette/alcohol smuggling and you already have a client base willing to buy known dodgy items.

A modern Fagin can quite easily go from zero to millions in a year with not very many active chavs and all it takes is a generous % cash payment rate to buy silence. Having plod break the business model early in the process can only be very cost efficient in the long term.

¹ It might have been that low once, now it's one every x mins per outlet.

² even with a 50% price markdown for onward sales that's still £5k, a lot of cash.

[CountCadaver]

how about security guards?

Oh wait those cost money and might look at the situation too sympathetically i.e. someone starving

Already cameras at self service tills in every store almost which says it all about their views on their clientele - less valued and more "prisoner 9846 stop loitering" "prisoner 65237 looks nervous - detain and search"

I just wish id gotten out and stayed out of the hellsphere formerly known as the UK and before it literally became Orwell's airstrip one

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: how about security guards?

Getting out only works if where you get out to is better. The US with its out-of-control gun lobby? Australia where a good proportion of the wildlife will kill you? South Africa where it's not just the wildlife...?

I'm exaggerating of course, a little.

I'm quite enjoying Belgium at the moment, where the streets are clean, everything works & the citizens all seem to be invested in keeping it that way. I've never tried living there, though, so I'm sure that it has its own downsides. Netherlands used to be good but haven't been in years & they looked to be falling for the far right in recent years.

[martinusher]

Re: Bad Sainsbury's! Good Co-op?

It doesn't work like that. You don't enter the store and an alarm goes off because the system recognized you so there's no way the system can make a 'mistake'. The worst that will happen is you might be tagged in error as a known shoplifter which will just result in someone checking you out as you shop. Loss Prevention tends to keep a low profile, the store might look deserted but there's usually someone watching, somewhere. Most shoppers are honest, they don't steal stuff, so the focus is on identifying the persistent thieves and finding the most effective way of prosecuting them (which for a low level thief's first time may just be a chat with the store manager and some kind of ban).

The important thing to remember is that just because nobody confronts you when you walk out the store doesn't mean you weren't clocked.

[WowandFlutter]

Variation on the perennial self-service bagging 'bag' alert?

You are quietly standing in a queue waiting for a self-service till to become available when...

'Unidentified person in the queuing area, please seek security assistance'

blares out of the supermarket PA.

[headrush]

I used to be able to get most of my weekly shopping in the pub. Some people used to take orders and be back in 10 minutes.

Not that I ever took advantage of that service. I didn't fancy a block of cheese that had been down someone's pants.

[Fara82Light]

Retailers have been left with nowhere else to go due to the political constraints imposed on police forces.

[Wellyboot]

Retailers have been left with online deliveries or stores used solely as pickup points as the only alternative to avoid the cost of theft.

[Thecoolbell]

Well. they could reduce their margins and lower their ridiculous push for growth of profits by reducing prices for the consumer. Shoplifting and similar crimes surge under policies that squeeze money from the poorest in society. But, the poorest don't pay politicians I suppose so why listen to them and all the time they push them to vote for right wing loonies like farage etc.

[Alfie Noakes]

Use proven methodology?

Maybe Sainsbury's should implement a "Parking Eye" style approach, and have a big "contract sign" at the entrance saying that you agree to pay a £1,000 "shoplifting charge" if you nick anything (reduced to only £500 if you pay within 28 days)?

It seems to be a nice earner for motorists, so why not for grocery tea-leafs?

[AnonymousCward]

With an added twist

Force people to have an account with a deposit above a specific cash value on their account with the store prior to being allowed traditional physical entry. If they are caught stealing, the shop gets to keep the deposit. Anyone unable to deposit the required minimum for full access can only order through a safety hatch akin to petrol stations at night (or chemists when they offer methadone) and a picker/packer will fetch it for them.

Together, we just solved shoplifting!

Peace and unity for all!

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably set foot in Sainsbury's and TESCO's about a dozen times since 2020, only get home deliveries as I don't have to deal with rent-a-goon security gobshites who think they're lord God almighty. Fecking mindless divs wandering about buying processed shit to poison their brain-damaged little spawn with so much fat, sugar and enough E numbers to make them glow in the dark!

Happy to spend a few quid more in the local shops when I get the chance where they treat you like a human being and they're always glad to have a chat.

[DannyH246]

Get used to it. We will soon have Digital ID & Central bank digital currency. Combine this with facial recognition everywhere and the state will be able to track you wherever you go.

[R Soul]

the state will be able to track you wherever you go....

....much more easily than they already do.

The vast majority of the population voluntarily walk around with personal tracking devices all the time - aka smartphones.

[xyz123]

Oh god how I want this.

I could do with a few 10s of thousands of pounds in a lawsuit when their system decides "he's not white enough and they all look the same to me!- Shoplifter alert! shoplifter alert!"

[idiotzoo]

Aside from the problems of misidentification that have already occurred in some places, this is the bit I don’t believe: “ Records of shoppers' faces will be immediately deleted if the software does not recognize their mug.”

[Anonymous Coward]

Shoplifting is out of control in this country. At my local supermarket, there are people who go in every week, load up a trolley and walk out without paying. I asked the security guard about it and he said the staff aren't allowed to try and stop them. The only thing he can do is say "excuse me sir, I think you have forgotten to pay for your shopping", and the scumbags just laugh at them. He said "in my country when somebody comes to rob the shop, we chase them and beat them with a stick, then they won't come back, but here it's not allowed to do that".

There is literally no deterrent and no consequences. They way things are going, I expect the government will soon start giving these scumbags free money so they are not "forced" to steal things (or to work for a living like everybody else).

[Anonymous Coward]

Missing the point

I see a lot of posts criticising based on the operational or technical inadequacies but that is missing the point.

I don't want my personal information and soul on everyone's storage system for everyone's nosey oik or policeman to look up as we move into a dystopian, authoritarian hell where critisicm of government policy, person or bureaucrat can get you a jail term or simply cut off via your id or cbdc. Just F'k off.