back to article Junk is the new punk: Why we're falling back in love with retro tech

It's 2025 and the latest mega-album has just been released – on cassette tape. Taylor Swift dropped Life of a Showgirl on digital, vinyl, and the old jewel-cased pencil spinners. They're still with us, complete with tape tangling and endless rewinding to find that specific track you love. But why? Releases on cassette tape …

  1. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Megaphone

    Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

    It's because all this cloud streaming shite is either too easy to vanish (thought you had a lifetime license ? Think again).

    Or - even worse - what you think you purchased can be "improved", "updated", "corrected" until it loses all any any context.

    Try and watch "The Dambusters" on streaming and hear what I mean.

    With "retro" media once you buy it, you own it FOREVER.

    1. FIA Silver badge

      Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

      I've just had the opposite experience.

      I wanted to get a copy of an album from the early 90s called Toy Matinee. Without paying a small fortune I was unable to obtain a physical copy; however a DRM free download from Apple Music set me back a fairly standard 9 quid.

      That was a bit of an eye opener as someone who always tries to buy the physical CD so it can be ripped.

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

        But Apple download isn't lossless or is it? If it is then you bought just an approximation of the album. If you can't hear it, power to you.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

          It is.

          1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            "virtually indistinguishable"

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

              The problem with the youth these days is they just won't read further than the second sentence before giving up and drawing the wrong conclusion.

        2. MiguelC Silver badge

          Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

          If you can't have the artist performing in your living room it's always an approximation. CDs, DVDAs and SACDs are all but lossless, vinyl is closer but fragile, and even the original masters are just the best approximation they could get in the studio.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            Bullshit vinyl is closer *laughs at audiophool*

          2. 45RPM Silver badge

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            Let’s assume for a moment that your vinyl is in perfect condition, and that you have the finest audio setup that money can buy. Even then, there’s a limit to the resolution of the analogue waveform that can be represented by the groove on a record. There’s also a limit to how quickly the stylus can change direction horizontal and vertically (assuming a stereo record). And this resolution is lower than the sampling of a CD. Furthermore, if you look at the record sleeve, you will often see three letters - indicating the recording and mastering process. If one of those letters is a D then all bets are off - it’s been through a digital process anyway.

            Don’t get me wrong. I love vinyl. I love the tactility of it. I have a very nice stereo and speakers (connected via copper cable, at about thirty quid for a reel). I listen to vinyl (and yes, heavyweight early pressing does make a difference) but I don’t kid myself that the quality is better than CD or a lossless download. Actually, the quality isn’t even better (at least to my old ears) than a high bitrate MP3. But I do like the rigmarole of vinyl.

            I also like my old PC, old Mac, Beeb, Atari ST, Speccy…

            1. Dagg

              Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

              Vinyl is not totally lossless. Because it requires mechanical reproduction the bass frequencies are recorded as mono to prevent the needle from jumping out of the groove if there is a large left / right dynamic volume difference. Also the total dynamic range of the recording is also compressed because of the again the requirement of a needle to track a physical groove. And then there is the RIAA frequency compensation.

              Then if you really, really need to get the best you need to speed mega bucks on a moving coil cartridge, quality deck etc. And even then the vinyl will damage each time it is played. I remember going through three copies of the wall (my fav at the time) as each started to degrade (I was a bastard and on-sold the old copies).

              The problem was the first CD's were cut from the same masters as the vinyl so they had initial compression. It was only with the newer remastered CD's that you could get lossless.

            2. HorseflySteve Silver badge

              Audiophile quality Hi-Fi

              The fundamental problem with Hi-Fi is that, by the time you can afford a system that will give you the the best quality reproduction, you are too old to hear it properly.

              I recently gave a young (i.e. less than half my age) friend an old stereo record player that had been up in the loft for 40+ years & had to explain that she should separate the two speakers to create an apparent audio sound stage between as she had no experience of stereo except with headphones/earbuds

          3. elsergiovolador Silver badge

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            I was not precise. I meant approximation of CD record.

            Of course the real deal is being with the artist in the studio or at a gig.

            1. sedregj
              Windows

              Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

              "lossless"

              Even CDs are "only" recorded with samples at around 30,000 per minute.

              1. ThomH Silver badge

                Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

                > Even CDs are "only" recorded with samples at around 30,000 per minute.

                The CD sampling rate of 44.1 kHz implies more than 2.6 million samples per minute.

                Still, cheer up. You were only off by two orders of magnitude.

            2. that one in the corner Silver badge

              Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

              > the real deal is being with the artist ... at a gig.

              With all the genuine sound of people singing the wrong words, out of key, just behind you. The bad mix of the instruments that drowns out the singer, who then starts to shriek instead of singing. The volume is too high, so you "feel" the music, even as your ears start ringing and you lose all ability to hear the useful frequencies anyway.

              It's a toss-up, especially when seeing a band live for the first time, whether it is going to be great - or yet another one where the best thing to do is walk out early and try to preserve some love for their work via the studio recordings.

        3. FIA Silver badge

          Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

          I can't.

          I can hear the difference on poor quality MP3s from the 90s, but a good quality modern audio format I really can't.

          Even then, I'm still conditioned. I rip CDs using the highest settings possible, knowing full well I can't hear the difference. Whilst I don't have 'audiophile' grade kit I do have okay stuff, Beyerdynamic DT770s on the headphones, and some B&Ws driven by a weird Arcam stero surround system that I fell in love with. (It's a stereo version of a surround amp).

          Also, remember people are insane. I downloaded a torrent of FLAC jazz records a few years ago, only to discover I'd got a half terrabyte of lossless samples of LPs. The slight crackle did add to the warmth and nostalgia, but again, re-encoding the entire collection from 32 bit 192KHz lossless FLAC to 32 bit 48KHz AAC resulted in no perceptible quality loss (for me), but did reduce the size of the files from 574 gig to 21 gig.

          1. HorseflySteve Silver badge

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            The only time I noticed digital artifacts on audio CD was when I was listening to one very loud using headphones. One track had a very long fade out that I heard quantisation distortion in the last half second.

            I thought I'd heard something odd on an ogg encoded CD ripped audio track once but it turned out that the piano that Keith Emerson was playing during the recording had a slight squeak in the sofa pedal mechanism; I never noticed that on the original vinyl!

      2. karlkarl

        Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

        > I was unable to obtain a physical copy; however a DRM free download from Apple Music set me back a fairly standard 9 quid.

        I think the point is that for those who do obtain physical copies, which for most things is not difficult; they own it for life.

        But the 9 quid purchase you made was effectively an unspecified time limited demo. A rental from the great "Blockbusters" in the sky.

        1. doublelayer Silver badge

          Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

          When they say "DRM free", what do you think that means? Because to me, it means that I can copy those files and use them later, which was possible with Apple before, so when they say it's possible now, I believe them.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            Yep. I can't say it's absolutely true for everything on That Which Was iTunes (no idea what it's been rebranded to this week), but aside from some tracks I wasn't able to get upgraded from the DRM-locked version to the DRM-free version mumblety-years ago when Apple made the change, all the tracks I've bought since have been DRM-free AAC. Play just fine in Winamp running under Steam (I should play with other WINE wranglers).

            Now, *video* content is still buried in the DRM nightmare, and as far as I can tell will remain there until Hollywood pulls its collective head out of its collective backside and decides that DRM doesn't actually do much of anything to prevent piracy.

        2. Mr D Spenser

          Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

          Also, in all likelihood it is a remastered version that has been tweaked to sound better through ear buds that can't reproduce the original.

          1. Alex 72

            Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

            Apple sell tablets and laptops with digital audio out built in (even if you needto use usbc to get it) air pods max cost over £500 they don't 'tweak' for tinny little earbuds. The quality is not as good as the original masters, it is at least as good if not better than CD. Apple get around the not 'tweaking' for earbuds by claiming their earbuds defy physics and can make sounds that require larger drivers, to be fair to them their earbuds are ok but I would take a usbc to 3.5mm plugged into AKG headphones or an amp and decent speakers any day. There are streaming services out there with better quality but most cost more and or have a smaller selection of music. There are cheaper services with larger selections of music but few if any of those match apples quality of content delivery. There might be one or two equals on value but if like me you have had an iPhone for a number of years and shifting would be work before 2025 there was little reason to consider it.

      3. bombastic bob Silver badge

        Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

        You can always digital record from the output of a good quality player. Use a simple patch cable, and a ground loopback eliminator if it picks up a power supply buzz from the 2 device's switcher power supplies fighting one another, i.e. PC to PC or sometimes 'phone on a charger'

        1. FIA Silver badge

          Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

          I wouldn't want to digitise a record. I'd rather buy the CD, they sound better.

          I grew up with records, I've no nostalgia for them.

          As for the ground loopback eliminator, that's a useful tip, thank you. I often used to get earth hum when connecting two machines together. (I like to have audio for both machines out the same amp).

          I discovered Voice Meter though, so now do all that digitally.

      4. HorseflySteve Silver badge

        Toy Matinee

        Excellent but short lived partnership between Patrick Leonard and the late, sadly missed Kevin Gilbert that produce just the one superb album.

        I bought the Unitone Recordings Special Edition that was released in Kevin's memory in 2001. It has 2 additional tracks plus some alternative versions/demos of the original release. Last copy I saw on eBay went for >$60

        Make sure you're sitting down before you look up the price of "The Shaming of the True" on Amazon...

        1. FIA Silver badge

          Re: Toy Matinee

          It was initially a colab between Guy Pratt (the 'not Roger Waters' bass player from Pink Floyd) and Patrick Leonard after they'd worked together on Madonna’s stuff. Also, you can't mention Toy Matinee without a big hat tip to the guitar work of Tim Pierce.

          The members all had other things to do (Pratt wasn't on the last track of the album as he had to go back on tour with Floyd) so never toured. This lead Kevin Gilbert to recruit other musicians to tour the material (including one Sheryl Crow on keyboard). You can find performances on youtube, but you can tell it's not Pratt on bass or Pierce on guitar.

          It's a shame that Gilbert passed and they never got to do any more.

      5. mistersaxon

        Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

        You can burn it to a physical CD or record it to a cassette using line out. D->A is easier than the other way or at least no harder.

    2. AMBxx Silver badge

      Re: Why ? Surely no one can't work it out ?

      Worse still, not all old films gave music rights for streaming. You'll often find that Amazon have changed the songs used. Worst example was French Kiss (my wife's choice!). All the soundtrack is different. Gave up and watched a rip from a DVD.

    3. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

      Forever

      While I prefer owning the media, owning the media is not a sinecure. I have commercially-produced DVDs of various shows dating back to the late 1990s, and some of those DVDs are failing on me. They cannot be read in any of my various DVD players/computer-disc drives, and those DVDs are no longer being produced ("out-of-print").

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why?

    Because cassettes does not contains DRM, you can hence digitize them and be done with it. Duh!

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      "Home Taping Is Killing Music"

      1. m4r35n357 Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        Said Sony records, while Sony electronics churned out machines by the million - for what?

      2. Blue Pumpkin
        1. HMcG Bronze badge

          Re: Why?

          Now that’s just pro-piracy dog-whistling.

      3. chivo243 Silver badge
        Go

        Re: Why?

        ahem, better check with the Grateful Dead...

        1. JLV Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          Saw them twice in the mid 80s. They even went as far as to have physical fencing to deal with people doing bootleg recordings at their concerts.

          As in, to give them a nice, well-situated, separate space where the rest of us would not interfere with their equipment and audio overmuch, in order to record the best bootlegs ;-)

      4. MyffyW Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        "Capitalism is Killing Music"

        - Bard of Barking, 1988

        1. Snake Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          "Bad music is killing music"

          - Snake. And, maybe, Rick Beato on a good day.

    2. m4r35n357 Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      My home recorded cassettes from the late 70s and 80s are still going strong! Says it all.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Why?

        Did you know you used your password as your name?

        You'll have to add an exclamation mark to make it secure now.

        1. m4r35n357 Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          Hilarious ;)

          Actually I have _never_ used it as a password - I use and recommend pwgen on Linux & almost certainly BSD too..

      2. Fred Dibnah

        Re: Why?

        Tapes recorded at 1x speed could sound really good, but I can still remember the terrible disappointment when I bought Honky Chateau on cassette instead of vinyl. It sounded atrocious because the tape replication was done at 5x, 10x or so.

        Do today’s cassette albums sound OK, I wonder?

        1. ZX8301

          Re: Why?

          It was 16x mastering (30 IPS) onto one-inch ‘pancakes’ slit eight ways at CBS Aylesbury, the biggest cassette duping plant in 1984 when Quicksilva arranged a tour of the plant for 8-bit devs. Amusing and salutary to see cheap welded unlubricated tape shells showering across the shop floor when the line jammed up.

          Picked up two decent Japanese 6V mono cassette recorders for a quid at Rugby Radio Rally, both now working nicely with my Spectrum Next and 40 year old data-tapes after cleaning and fitting a new belt for one of them. Whereas I can confirm the modern lookalikes branded Bush, now on flea bay at £20+, are shoddily-made crap, fit only for the kiddies dismantling-practice table at my local Repair Cafe.

      3. Missing Semicolon Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        Must have been on good tape kept well. Many 50-year-old cassettes (especially pre-records) have degenerated so that the next time you play it, will be the last. And then you'll need to clean the heads again.

        1. Sudosu Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          My father still has reel to reel recordings of the radio that he made in the 1960s that still work just fine.

          We did have to grease a pulley in his player that he was supposed to do monthly but never did as it was playing slow.

        2. FrankeeD

          Re: Why?

          I always found the pre-recorded commercial cassettes more likely to suffer from playback problems as they aged, compared to the ones I'd recorded myself.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      DRM

      Talking of DRM; I subscribed to Disney Plus the other day to watch Alien Earth.

      I have Apple TV, plugged into a soundbar, plugged into a TV. As soon as it started streaming, it popped up an error "Disney has detected an HDCP issue - to resolve this issue, try bypassing your stereo equipment, connect your media playing device directly to your TV" and the video refused to play.

      Do you think I....

      A) Got up from my sofa and rewired my entire entertainment system, bypassing an extremely expensive Dolby Atmos sound system, just to play one program, because Disney's DRM is fucked (no other streaming App suffers this problem).

      or, did I:

      B) Immediately unsubscribe from Disney. Download the torrent, and watch it on Plex.

      Jokers.

    4. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      Have you listened to a cassette recently? Compared it to any halfway decent digital format?

      1. FIA Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        If you have good equipment they're not that bad.

        Like all the analogue formats they depend a lot on the quality of both the medium, and the equipment used.

        A cheap digital player will sound fine (I dare to say almost indistinguishable from a good quality one if paired with a decent output stage) whereas a cheap cassette deck will sound a lot worse than a well maintained good quality unit with a decent metal tape.

        However, why you'd bother in this day and age other than for nostalgia, escapes me.

        (I'm in my late 40s, I remember going in to music shops in my youth and starting in reverence at the 'Compact Disc' section, as it was this future technology that actually sounded good. It didn't crackle or hiss and it played back at a constant uniform speed. Why does no one else seem to remember this?)

    5. 45RPM Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      I found a box of old cassettes recently, cassettes from my childhood. I happen to have a Phillips DCC player (also plays regular cassettes) in very good, clean, condition. So I popped an old favourite in and…

      Firstly, print through is not a myth. I suppose more recent cassettes might be okay - these were mostly from the 1970s and hadn’t been played since the 1980s, and they were old Ferric tape. And secondly, even without print through, the sound was mushy, muddy and horrible.

      Compact Cassettes solved a problem and they were wonderful back in the day. They gave me a lot of pleasure. But they’re hopeless now, with no redeeming qualities when compared with modern technology. So let’s leave them in the past, and remember the technology kindly rather than as it is with all its faults laid bare.

      1. Adair Silver badge

        Re: Why?

        Agreed, Compact Cassettes are pretty crap, but we had to put up with the crapness as that was all there was if you wanted affordable audio on the go, that wasn't radio.

        I don't miss them one little bit, except as a nostalgic memory of teenage years.

        1. 45RPM Silver badge

          Re: Why?

          I remember buying an Aiwa personal stereo back in the day - quite a top end gadget that I’d saved for ages to buy. I took it back to the shop immediately, convinced it was faulty because my music sounded dreary compared with my old cheapo Sanyo (that didn’t even have rewind). They chucked in a calibration tape to test speed, wow and flutter - and found that the Aiwa was fine. But my Sanyo had been playing cassettes a little too fast.

          The DCC player I have I trust to play at the right speed, it’s electronically controlled. But how can I be sure that the analogue recordings were made at the right speed?

          Yep. Cassettes. Rubbish.

    6. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: Why?

      Also because the added fidelity of CDs and digital formats makes no difference to most people, and having something you can "hold" is nice - and a new experience for Gen Z for whom everything has been bits in the cloud.

  3. FIA Silver badge

    We seem to clamor so much for old computers, consoles, cameras, and audio kit that companies are now issuing reboots of classic computers like the Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum.

    I get this was an averticle, but to not mention the new C64 seems a bit remiss. ;)

    On a more serious note, for me the joy of retro these days is you can pair it with the modern. So you can have a record and all the joy of staring at the gatefold, but when you scratch it, or your stylus breaks you open Spotify. Same with cassette tapes. You can find a nice retro tape player that will make a good job of playing these back, but when you're on the go you can switch to a phone with better fidelity, not a small crappy portable player.

    This works with computers too. I've been getting back into the 8 bit stuff of my youth recently. Having and tinkering with the hardware is great, but also having a modern PC that I can write code on in an IDE and test in an emulator in seconds just adds to it for me. You get the simplicity of the early years of PCs, with the utility that more power has brought.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      but to not mention the new C64 seems a bit remiss

      Or the YouTuber who's somehow managed to get enough investment to buy everything to do with 8-bit Commodore and now seems to now want to bring the different Amiga bits under the same roof too.

      Also, the time to mention the ZX Spectrum was about a month ago...

      1. Lennart Sorensen

        And he even managed to get a lot of the previous engineers and sales people involved too. It's looking rather impressive so far.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

    It doesn't require an internet connection to function... it just works...

    It doesn't require a subscription...

    And you don't need to register the device on the internet or create an account with the manufacturer...

    (Just finished building my XI8088 XT-clone...)

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

      Absolutely.

      Old tech works on its own. The besuited CEOs and MBAs cannot extract monthly revenue from it, and so cannot increase their bonuses.

      So the resurgence of this tech is more than an annoyance, it's the barbarians at the gates.

      Unfortunately for them, while preaching Sun-Tsu until breathless, they know only too well how Rome ended.

      1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

        Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

        We are few brown envelopes away from having all the configuration bitstreams loaded to FPGA to be signed by government.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

      You should also mention immediacy. When you power up the machine, it is ready to work instantly and what is still unmatched by current comptuers is virtually zero latency for keyboard.

      Having to deal with latency in IDEs and text editors is infuriating and never has been "fixed".

    3. abend0c4 Silver badge

      Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

      In the case of my gramophone, it doesn't even need power - just wind the handle periodically.

      However, the downside of this old stuff is that it tends to take up a lot of space. I've reached the age when I've had to clear a fair few houses of deceased relatives and from that perspective there are advantages to your stuff evaporating on your demise.

    4. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

      If it makes you feel any better... I just finished designing a 128-byte ROM to bolt on to the side of my retro push button and seven segment LED 65C02 board. It's amazing what you can do with 128 bytes and a 65c02.

    5. gosand

      Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

      I get what you are saying, but I don't get the fascination with it. yeah, when I had my old TRS-80 it booted up instantly... Because the OS hadn't been loaded. A few <grind> <grind> noises later and it loaded off of the 5.25" floppy. Then I could load something else in the other floppy drive.

      But then what? I don't code BASIC anymore. I don't want to play the handful of games I owned. I don't want to look at ascii art. And the thing weighted a ton.

      I sold it, and while it would be 'neat' to have it around, I have learned to just get rid of that stuff.

      I also sold off my arcade cabinets that I spent a few years collecting. I spent countless hours soldering together harness adapters and hunting through old arcade stashes and auctions for parts.

      I can emulate hundreds of games now on my PC, but honestly they aren't that fun to play anymore - and I grew up playing those in the arcades.

      It's not about the thing. It's about the experiences you had with the thing. Or the sheer neatness of how things used to work. I don't want albums, 8-tracks, cassettes, or even CDs now. Remixed versions of the originals sound even better than they did originally for the most part.

      And I shaved off my mullet and mustache years ago, and no matter how many people I see with them it ain't coming back!

      The only 'old' tech I am still running is Linux, and it in fact is better than ever.

      1. MyffyW Silver badge

        Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

        I think a two-decades-old film said it best "Let's never come here again because it would never be as much fun"

        [Also, and speaking on behalf of all my sisters, thank you for not revisiting the mullet and moustache.]

        1. formerpommie

          Re: One of the biggest draws of this older tech...

          "thank you for not revisiting the mullet and moustache"

          I implore you to avoid Australia for the foreseeable. Mullets and moustaches appear to be going through a bit of a renaissance here at the moment...

  5. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
    Windows

    Why retro?

    - Instant On. Why, oh, why does modern kit take so long to power on? Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second yet my multi-core GHz system take almost a minute? Also, no need to wait an hour almost every other day just to download an update for a 50GB+ game. Retro bug fixes tended to be a few POKEs.

    - Simpler to understand. Fully understood, right down to the silicon transistor.

    - A 200-page book can detail all the low-level details allowing you* to do some really clever stuff in a very confined space. (have you seen the size of the Intel CPU developer's manual?!)

    - No DRM or encrypted BIOS code telling you "Oh, you can't do that.". (There's a post from a Raspberry Pi engineer saying they'll never be able to 100% opensource all the code that drives a Pi)

    - Easy to fix. All through hole components. No SMD components as small as a grain of sand.

    - Easy to work on. You try bodging your own hardware interface to your USB-C port or PCI slot.

    * - And by "you" I mean "Someone cleverer than me".

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Why retro?

      There's a post from a Raspberry Pi engineer saying they'll never be able to 100% opensource all the code that drives a Pi

      In my opinion that is just being lazy and penny pinching. They certainly would have the leverage needed to have every aspect of the product open. But why go to such lengths if most people don't care.

      1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

        Truly 100% Open Source RPi

        Three words: "Broadcom firmware license".

    2. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

      Re: Why retro?

      I get the frustration but it's because your multi GHz CPU has to wait for your multi GB OS to load into your multi GB RAM instead of just being there in memory mapped ROM and read one byte at a time as required

      If you had to fully load the Kernel, BASIC and Font ROMs on a C64 or other contemporary 8 bitter from disk to "boot" them every time you'd not be so upset.

      1. Gene Cash Silver badge

        Re: Why retro?

        Boot from disk?? What? You mean paper tape, right?

        1. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

          Re: Why retro?

          I never saw a paper tape for the Commodore machines but sure, why not.

        2. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

          Re: Why retro?

          It took about 20 minutes to go from power-on 'till you got BASIC's prompt on a PDP-8, including toggling in the 1st-stage bootstrap loader via front panel switches, loading the 2nd-stage bootstrap loader from paper tape, then loading BASIC from paper tape -- at 10 characters per second via the Teletype Model 33ASR's paper tape reader.

          1980s microcomputers were much-nicer in that regard.

      2. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: Why retro?

        But why is an O/S multi GB in size? Sloppy programming.

        You read analysis of old 8-bit code and those programmers worked their butts off to squeeze every last byte into the limited RAM and every last cycle out of the CPU running at single MHz.

        1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: Why retro?

          The full ZX spectrum ROM disassembly taught me a shed load about squeezing performance from 16K worth of memory, plus it had the hooks where extra ROM could be added for the official add ons.

          Ok on the original Z80A , it could be quite 'slow' but the floating point thing taught me about using pre-caculated values in programming for extra speed, but you look at OS's now and you think... whos loading this bloated monster in and how long does it take? but am I being fair as the OS now has to run multiple threads and processes where as the spectrum only had a few threads to worry about ? (sound and video spring to mind)

          But looking back with rose tinted glasses........ compared to now Elite:dangerous is just so much better than the original wireframe elite..

        2. doublelayer Silver badge

          Re: Why retro?

          They optimized to the limit because they had to, not because that was good. If that meant they cut corners on all sorts of areas, well that was the only choice, because not cutting corners means the computer cost double so you could have enough performance. Cutting corners, in this case, means everything from not having convenient elements to massive security holes by the time there was any security at all.

          Here's an example. Remember when Microsoft Word was a tiny binary? Remember when the Office file format changed with every release? Do you know that those were very connected? Sure, part of it was Microsoft wanting people to buy new Office versions, but not all of it. Many structures of the old Office formats weren't parsed when they got opened because that would eat up cycles. Instead, they were simply copied out of RAM onto disk when you saved and then back from disk into RAM. That makes loading them a lot faster. What else did it do? Well:

          1. If you weren't that program, compatibility with that format was a much bigger task because someone's struct blitted into RAM isn't as useful if it's not your struct.

          2. It made backward compatibility harder for the same reasons. Microsoft had that code and included it, but it made Word bigger every time to include all the old formats rather than design the formats for forward compatibility.

          3. It made cross-platform compatibility harder because, if everything's a 386, then your structures always come back into RAM the same way, but if you have other processor architectures that use a different byte order or memory segmentation, now they don't.

          4. You're copying arbitrary data into memory directly. If someone crafts a file right, they can break or even take over your word processor by you opening it. That's not so easy to do with a modern docx file because it's not copying that straight into RAM.

          That's leaving out all of the things that those operating systems didn't do that modern ones did. In the ones you're talking about, audio was a single supported device with a basic interface or, later, a separate board you need to add which would have limits on how well it handled multiple audio sources or devices. Now, the OS has a sound stack that does that for you, can detect the hardware you have, can deal with hotplugging interfaces, can mix sources in a variety of ways. One of the costs of that is that it has to look at what hardware is plugged in when you boot and create structures to handle that, because unlike those efficient systems, it doesn't get to hardcode a single answer for that. Video and most other hardware is the same way. Part of the typical boot process is copying large amounts of data into RAM, but another part is looking at the hardware, finding the code that runs the hardware, loading that, and having all those resources available when a program wants them. That change was important, because no longer does a program have to have support for any hardware it might use compiled into it. Not only will the OS expose the hardware in a generic way, it will figure out what to offer and deal with the configuration of it.

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Why retro?

        "I get the frustration but it's because your multi GHz CPU has to wait for your multi GB OS to load into your multi GB RAM instead of just being there in memory mapped ROM and read one byte at a time as required"

        While true regarding the OS, but a modern PC STILL takes longer to POST and initialise all the hardware before it even STARTS to load the OS than my old 8-bit kit takes from power on showing the READY>_ prompt :-) And yes, that ROM + BASIC *is* the OS. It's not a Disk Operating System, but is an Operating System :-) Especially when they got a bit more advanced, such as, say, the BBC Micro which used quite a number of system commands which were not part of BASIC.

        1. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

          OS + BASIC in ROM

          For the Commodore VIC-20, C-64, Atari 400, 800, 1200, etc. computers, The ROM-based OS was a disk(ette) operating system.

          LOAD "$",8 [Return]

          and all that.

  6. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second

    My TV takes longer to "warm up" than an old fashioned CRT one used to (kids, ask your grandparents).

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second

      And the OSD on my digibox is nearly as slow as Teletext.

    2. SomeRandom1
      Big Brother

      Re: Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second

      Secret tracking code takes a while to load and link the tv back to the server data tracking profile you cannot access.

      1. MiguelC Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second

        My dumbed down TV is not allowed to connect to the internet. Is that why it takes no time to turn on then?

        1. JPCavendish

          Re: Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second

          My fully NERFed Samsung OLED has never had any connection to the outside world, and never will. It's up and running in about 5 seconds.

          My older Samsung on the other hand was fine UNTIL I connected it to the Internet, then it started showing ads, then I disconnected it, and THEN it became slow as all fck.

          So I think it's a case of - once it's connected to the mothership, it expects that connection from then on. And when it doesn't get it, it waits until it times out.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Why can my 2MHz CPU power on in under a second

            Perhaps it upbloated to the latest version but the CPU is woefully underpowered to run it.

  7. Denarius

    so who fixes old tape players?

    Have some old tapes, stored in cool dark places.Have tape players and fairly new drive bands but the tension levels on cassette capstans are either weak or excessive. Ideas ? Worn motor commutators probably best fixed by replacement

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: so who fixes old tape players?

      Have you tried your local repair cafe (or similar) ? Search on google.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    the attraction of the vintage gear is its pure simplicity, you can tinker with it, you can mod it, build stuff for it and it's possible for mere mortals to understand at a component level.

    Also, yes DRM is bad, cloud stuff that can't be played offline with temporary licences and vanishing servers, also, so many games seem to be full on theatrical productions with fantastic visuals, gigabytes of magnificent video, photorealism but nowhere near the sheer enjoyment of the vintage stuff where graphics and sound were utterly shite in comparison but gameplay was where it was at.

  9. Wang Cores Silver badge

    More importantly it's designed to work.

  10. IvaliceResident

    Still use my 30 gb ipod. Not always on, no stats tracking, no ads, no distraction. Just my locally stored music and podcasts.

    Makes for a more tranquil existence away from the online world.

  11. A. Coatsworth
    Unhappy

    Gatekeeping

    he did it to create a safe space after seeing a lot of toxic gatekeeping in the community.

    ...

    When a retro trend gets big enough to mass produce, it can quickly sour

    Kind of easy to see the connection between the two, isn't it?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Does the past have a future?"

    Currently looking a bit doubtful.

    I imagine it's a fairly deep question in the philosophy of time. (Does the future already exist or does have to be brought into being? ;)

    For me seeing old tech working after three or four decades the fascination is in the fact that it is still working not that I would actually want to own or use it again.

    When I first heard an early demo CD (Pachelbel's Canon, I think) I knew vinyl was doomed although at the time a CD player was around AUD1000.00 so it was a few years before the price dropped and I could afford one.

    Vinyls had become pretty much a curiosity by the late 1990s - early noughties.

    I was flabbergasted years later when seeing, on walking into a city record store after a few years in the country, aisles of LPs and new scratch-o-matic turntables. The middle aged shop assistant agreed saying "I know but it keeps me in a job." (I had purchased a CD of one of Górecki's symphonies.)

    I might concede the direct to disc brigade have a point and even stretch that to (thermionic) valve amplifier brethren but there is absolutely no way I would concede the compact cassette has anything going for it. (Ranks below oxygen free speaker cables.)

    Seems to be a general principle in the 21st century that the basic technology really does improve sometimes by leaps and bounds but then the MBAs, marketing zombies and narcissistic billionaires get hold of the technology and comprehensively defecate all over it.

    Future historians might justly name this period "the age of enshittification."

    1. JPCavendish

      Re: "Does the past have a future?"

      I think the current cassette tape hype is all about nostalgia. Quality doesn't get a look in.

      See also: the rise of Polaroid cameras. A dye sublimation printer like the Canon QX20 produces vastly better output in a similar format, but to the pro-Polaroid brigade that's irrelevant. It just doesn't have the same nostalgic appeal.

  13. Brl4n Bronze badge

    requires a login to try: bye.

    "AI powered": bye.

  14. The Dogs Meevonks Silver badge

    It Never Went Away For Me

    I still have a large vinyl collection, although I did stop buying it 30yrs ago, I still have a large CD collection, although I did stop buying it 10yrs ago... occasionally pick up an older release from before the CD loudness wars of the 2000's. I have a very large movie and tv show collection on DVD & Bluray.

    I run a mediaserver in my home, I have ripped everything to that for streaming in and around the home. Whilst I do use a couple of streaming services, I only actually pay for Netflix as Disney+ was free for 12 months with my bank account. I dropped Prime almost 2yrs ago because fuck amazon.

    I grew up in a time when you actually owned what you bought and I'll be fucked if I change that opinion... you can't steal what you aren't allowed to own.

    I'm currently in the process of setting up a little music nook in a bay window of my home... Nice recliner armchair, unit for my vinyl... an amp, CD player, turntable and some decent headphones. Offline enjoyment of what I own and can do with as I please... fuck greedy corpo scum.... they'd charge me a subscription fee to breathe if they could.

    1. JPCavendish

      Re: It Never Went Away For Me

      "I grew up in a time when you actually owned what you bought"

      But did you though. Even in the days of DVD and CD, the concept of 'ownership' was a many-hued thing. You typically "owned" the physical disc but "licensed" the contents; which gave you limited rights to play or duplicate it, and threatened all manner of hellish retribution if you violated their T&Cs. So even back then, owning wasn't really owning.

      1. Fred Dibnah

        Re: It Never Went Away For Me

        That applied to DVDs but fortunately not to CDs (apart from when Sony tried their rootkit nonsense).

        I still have quite a few DVDs, but these days it’s often quicker to torrent the film than sitting through the nag screens and menus on disc.

        1. JPCavendish

          Re: It Never Went Away For Me

          Didn't the same apply on CD though? You owned the physical media but licensed the content? Not talking about whether it was DRMed, purely the license terms; I seem to remember them placing daft restrictions in the T&Cs.

          PS downvote wasn't from me. Not sure why either of us would be downvoted for stating facts.

          1. Fred Dibnah

            Re: It Never Went Away For Me

            Technically yes, but as with physical books you are able to lend, copy and sell the content despite what the Ts&Cs say. I mean, they could send plod round to check you haven’t complied, but I doubt they have ever done that.

            “Home taping is killing music” lol.

  15. JLV Silver badge

    Cassettes???

    Vinyl I can vaguely understand, beyond the usual "audiophile claims". They're big so you can have art, you can kinda claim something about bla-bla-bla acoustics, analog, warmer...

    But cassettes? Their audio was always crappy, especially pre-recorded media that always went for the cheapest possible tape quality, they are easy to damage and they have no space for art.

    Plus, who has a player these days?

    Retro, simplicity and avoidance of subscription, centralized servers shenanigans makes sense, to an extent.

    But cassettes seem just hipsterdom at its dumbest finest.

    1. spold Silver badge

      Re: Cassettes???

      "Chrome" tapes were a step up, "Metal" tapes took it much higher - I still have an old player gathering moths that had a button for metal tapes (no idea what it did other than satisfy you had forked out more for the cassette) - actually I believe it was supposed to increase the recordable frequency range

      1. Fred Dibnah

        Re: Cassettes???

        Metal tapes needs a higher bias level than chrome tapes, which in turn need more bias than regular tapes. Also the frequency response is different across the three types, so the frequency pre-correction needs to be different.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Cassettes???

          Anyone know what the "metal" was? After all, the original tapes were metal, ie iron and later tape where also metal, ie Chromium. Yes, both were oxides, but suppose "metal" tapes were also an oxide. I doubt they used a flattened steel wire as "tape", ie the original wire recorder method :-)

          Calling it a generic "metal" always reminds me of cheap pub meal fish'n'chips where they don't specify cod, haddock or plaice because they don't want you to know it's some cheap generic "white" fish farmed in a river somewhere in Asia. :-)

          1. Fred Dibnah

            Re: Cassettes???

            Wikipedia has all the info:

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Cassette_tape_types_and_formulations

    2. fromxyzzy

      Re: Cassettes???

      Cassettes are an easy way to Make something physical and tangible, which feels mechanical and requires at least a reasonable amount of effort. About 20 years ago at the nadir of cassette sales, they were quite popular among underground and avant garde music communities because they were tangible but immediately reproducible (with a dual-well tape deck) and the time and effort of making one gave them value over the flood of CDRs that every bedroom musician with a copy of Ableton was handing out at the time.

      Companies are making new cassette players, check out the KLIM brand. Unfortunately, there's only one or two manufacturers making tape mechanisms anymore so a vintage name brand one will probably still have better audio reproduction.

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Cassettes???

        Apologies, I am not dissing on people who hang on to old tech. Or on people who actually have Maker skills.

        I am just pondering the Venn diagram of Swifties buying her cassettes new versus:

        a) the 2 above groups

        b) hipsters

    3. m4r35n357 Silver badge

      Re: Cassettes???

      What rubbish!

      It was actually really really good quality. I used high quality TDK tapes (SF-90 was a good one) with Dolby C on a good tape deck, and every time I bought an album I would record it to "insure" against damage (the major problem with vinyl). Chrome/metal were overrated IMO.

      Also good when too drunk to operate a turntable safely ;)

      1. Loudon D'Arcy

        Re: Cassettes???

        > Chrome/metal were overrated IMO.

        The SF-90 was a chrome tape. I read somewhere that when TDK introduced a new version of the "SA" cassette, the previous version was re-packaged as the "SF". However, I did read that on the internet, so it's probably a load of bollocks.

        http://vintagecassettes.com/tdk/tdk_files/tdk_year/tdk_86e.htm

        And I still buy used TDK cassettes from eBay, record my own mixtapes of 1980's music and listen to them in the kitchen on my Toshiba radio-cassette player from 1982.

        1. m4r35n357 Silver badge

          Re: Cassettes???

          Well it does say "High bias 70us" so you could be right, but the pricing was certainly not chrome/metal levels; they were VERY reasonably priced (and I think chrome/metal were still available). Just checked and they have the detection "hole" so you are right. The SF I think took over from SA at some point, as I also have SAs and they are older.

          I just saw the AD-X in your link too, they were really good and even cheaper IIRC. There was a tiny shop at the top of Corporation Street in Brum that had every make of tape you could mention . . .

  16. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "Bringing cameras back to life with new cases that are just like the originals is where Retrospekt found its core niche."

    As far as I'm concerned it should be the other way around. I'll keep what he calls the body and, even more importantly, the glassware. i just want digital innards for my Leica R4.

    1. fromxyzzy

      Turns out you probably don't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEjMwuwjzwo

    2. Roj Blake Silver badge

      Or you could replace both and end up with a Ship of Theseus/Trigger's Broom/Lovejoy's Knife/The Sugababes

      1. Loudon D'Arcy

        > The Sugababes

        If only there were a "laughing out loud" emoji on these comment pages...

  17. Tron Silver badge

    It's not just nostalgia.

    I still buy CDs and have a lot. If I'd bought downloads, aside from missing out on all the DVDs that came with many of the CDs, the photo books and whatnot, every penny I spent would have gone forever, as you can't really sell mp3 files. My CD collection is probably worth more than I paid for it, despite the p&p. Mint condition off-sale kpop CDs are not cheap.

    The replacement for DVD recorders are the little units that record to memory cards. Sadly not to MP4 format, but its better than nothing.

    Having stuff on physical media is key. Stuff can be cut from streaming due to a contract dispute, government block, or a cast member getting nicked for something.

    I really think we do need to take PC development back to an earlier time when the OS was more simple and restart development from there, without all the toxic BS that has been inserted by GAFA. We need file format compatibility and generic protocols for hardware and software. Beyond that, we could re-run the computer revolution with a Works package, a browser and an e-mail client with distributed social media built into it. I was hoping a Pi PC would be a route to this.

    Tech development in the 80s and 90s was designed around what users wanted, not what governments and vendors wanted, at the expense of users. We need to get back to that.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: It's not just nostalgia.

      Did you just describe a hankering for Linux and FOSS? :-D

  18. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. wolfetone Silver badge

      CDs are great, especially if you want to have the music on a computer/iPod. Vinyl is great too as an occasion. If you want to sit there with a bottle of booze and just relax and chill out.

      Cassettes were OK for a period of time where you couldn't use CD or vinyl. Like walking to school or something like that. But we have MP3/iPods for that now, so I do not understand, other than for misplaced nostalgia, why cassettes are coming back.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "Vinyl is great too as an occasion. If you want to sit there with a bottle of booze and just relax and chill out."

        Well, for about 23 minutes anyway. Then you have to get up and turn the record over. And 23 minutes later, you are forced to not only get up and remove the record but make a decision as to what to put on next. Unless you have an old Dansette disk changer and can stack up half a dozen in a "play list", but only get to hear one side of each album. Chilling in 23 minute intervals :-)

  19. ecofeco Silver badge

    Because it all just worked

    It's simple.

    It all just worked. And if it didn't, you got a refund by going directly to the store that sold it to you.

    And if it was past warranty, chances were good you could fix it yourself.

    Any controls need by the owner to operate whatever thing it was, was usually easily understood. Usually. Not always. But usually. (I still blame VCRs for the beginning of bad user controls)

    Was it all perfect? Oh god no. QC was just as bad then as is it now. But again, chances were good you could fix it, and fix it cheap.

    And the fixing it is a big part of why it's becoming popular again. Simplicity in repair, ownership and cost.

    It's just that simple.

  20. Scene it all

    We have about a hundred VHS tapes though they are greatly outnumbered by the DVDs. But the VHS player died and it seemed that nobody makes these things any more. I was able to find a reconditioned one on Amazon that seems to work.

  21. ravenviz

    I use an HP IPAQ as a remote control for my TV, with a stylus and everything.

    Trying to use the built-in Wi-Fi crashes it though!

  22. Fido

    I recently acquired a new car. I miss many things, but most of all I miss being able to turn the volume of the radio down without having to wait for the entertainment computer to boot up first.

    When the car is started the radio will immediately begin playing at whatever volume the previous driver left it at and the volume can't be changed until the computer has finished booting.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This is also a problem pre-touchscreen, and on home audio gear. The volume knob isn't a direct physical link to a potentiometer which controls the amplifier, it's a digital (rate-of-)change input that doesn't know what state it's in until powered on and reloaded with the stored state. Because pennies.

    2. localgeek

      I bought a Mitsubishi Mirage last fall, and that exact behavior drove me to distraction. I despise when devices do things I didn't expressly request.

      If I'd last left the stereo set to Bluetooth, about 20-30 seconds after starting the car it would start blaring whatever music or podcast I'd been listening to on my phone. It didn't matter if I'd powered the stereo off before turning off the engine. I even checked with the stereo manufacturer (Alpine), and they confirmed there was no way to disable that behavior. The only workaround I found was to turn the volume way down so at least I wouldn't hear it.

      In the end, I found a way to prevent the stereo from automatically turning on: I replaced the pricey head unit with an aftermarket JVC stereo. It stays off when powered off. Fortunately, nothing in the cars control functions required the touch screen. I did lose the backup camera (never had one in almost 4 decades of driving, so no loss there), and steering wheel stereo controls don't function. In return, I gained peace of mind. Plus, the stereo sounds great, especially with the Kenwood Excelon door speakers I installed to replace the wimpy OEM cone speakers.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Please, for the love of all things non-AI

    It's 4 am. Or is it 5? Why does El Reg, of allllllll places on this forsaken digital world, the only place I come to read and be informed... on a white af background? Please, call upon the gods of dark mode, pray at the sanctuary of accessibility, do whatever is necessary to help me do this without red eyes and lost vision.

    This comment was bound to land on anything I've read here in the last year. Guess retro tech was the lucky one.

    I for one appreciate y'all a lot.

    1. druck Silver badge

      Re: Please, for the love of all things non-AI

      Get the DarkReader extension for both Firefox and Chrome - works a treat - including allow you to increase contrast and reduce brightness so it is actually white on black, not a sea of mid greys as most claim are dark mode.

      1. skein

        Re: Please, for the love of all things non-AI

        iOS Firefox user here, so that extension is not available to me. However, the inbuilt dark mode normally works fine, even on the register main site, but is then completely ignored in the comments, for some reason. Any chance of a fix, vultures? Otherwise, splendid site, as always.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Please, for the love of all things non-AI

      Well I, for one, come here because El Reg has NOT succumbed to the forces of dark mode :-p

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Please, for the love of all things non-AI

        I absolutely respect that! All I ask is that we both have the choice/preference :-)

    3. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

      Attention, Dark-moders:

      Use dark mode if you like, but please don't influct that shit on all the rest of us.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Attention, Dark-moders:

        Whoever is doing that, they are missing the point. For some of us, non-dark is physically painful but it shouldn't dictate how everyone else gets to experience the site. However, I enjoy this part of the internet, the kind of people and commentary it brings to my day and I for one would appreciate if it helped me be able to last longer than 20 secs without watery eyes. All I'm saying is, let's both have the option :-) whenever the team can support both camps.

        Peace all

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Some things

    I think a lot of it is nostalgia, if you (like me) were there 3000 years ago it's not always great to revisit memories.

    I loved my Speccy and Amiga 500 but I don't really want to ruin those memories by looking back on them with a modern eye, also I don't really want a huge yellowing box of vintage electronics that needs a fair bit of skill, time and money to maintain.

    And tapes? Having lived with tape, and having had tape as my only music medium for a decade or two, no way would I want to go back to using tape. CDs I get, vinyl I get, but tape?

    I have started buying CDs and DVD / blueray again. Stuff that is becoming rare (90s bbc comedy stuff for me) or stuff I don't want to pay to stream. Plus right now they are still cheap so cheap even the charity shops won't take stuff..

    1. AndrueC Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Some things

      Yup, just nostalgia with a small amount of jumping on the latest cool bandwagon.

      My teenage years were the 1980s. So like you, I can understand listening to vinyl but cassettes were horrible. They were okay for recording stuff off the radio but not for buying music.

      But frankly, I've never been a fan of nostalgia (it ain't what it used to be). I moved to digital downloads pretty much as soon as they were readily available. I ripped my CDs to a server using WMA lossless then threw them out. There was a short time period during which I moaned about only being able to download lossy formats but then I realised that I couldn't tell the difference anyway. My audio setup is pretty good: Lyrion Music Server (as it's now called) -> Logitech Touch -> Onkyo receiver but I still can't tell the difference.

      And I still buy modern music so some of that is poorly engineered anyway. I think anyone over the age of 30 moaning about sound quality is deluding themselves. You can legitimately express a preference for one format or another but really that's just a preference for a particular combination of distortions (or possibly in the case of lossless digital a preference for a lack of distortion).

      Where digital absolutely reigns supreme is in the control and reliability of playback.

      My listening preference is to randomly shuffle albums (maintaining the track order). I can now do this at home and I can do it on the move. Thanks to Bluetooth I can maintain playback order between earbuds and car. I walk (and drive) about with over 15 hours of music on tap, moving from album to album without any effort on my part.

      I no longer have to put up with cracks and pops while listening to music. I've never had to clean my audio equipment.

      I no longer have a background hiss to put up with. I've certainly never had to carefully remove the media and extricate delicate tape from where it's wrapped itself around the mechanism.

      I enjoy music. Always have done. To my ears it sounds better than it ever did and it's certainly far less hassle. Anytime I want it there it is.

  25. herman Silver badge

    Simple as possible

    Ol Albert Einstein said: A thing should be as simple as possible, but no simpler.

  26. Efer Brick

    I run Faescesbook on my stone circle

    I find that 48megaliths is adequate.

  27. Antron Argaiv Silver badge

    Just finished repairing a serial data analyser

    It has a genuine 5" CRT video montitor for the UI (such as it is) and is Z80 based with loads of thru hole TTL. Date codes on the chips are 86. And, best of all, it claims to be able to read and generate Baudot 5-level code at 45.45 baud, which is what I was looking for. $150 including the power supply I replaced. A little burn-in on the monitor, but nothing that keeps me from using it.

    / yes, I do have a Teletype to go with it :-)

  28. ComicalEngineer Silver badge

    Some old tech is good, some ison't

    I have a combination of Quad 66 CD player / FM Radio, 66 preamp and Quad 306 power amp. Hooked up to an AR EB101 record deck, and DAB+ radio. I no longer possess a cassette player and totally agree with the generally poor quality of cassettes, even the post Maxell UDXL II and MX. Wow and flutter was never as good as vinyl and vinyl crackles (and poor quality pressings) drive me nuts. Mostly I play CDs or radio but I do have one of my PCs hooked up into the Aux input of my amp.

    That said, I still hanker after my old BBC with Viglen kit just for the pleasure of playing the original versions of Elite, Repton etc.

  29. Francis King

    ZX Spectrum and C64 are not retro enough

    The ZX Spectrum and C64 are nowhere near retro enough.

    You know you've doing retro where you're messing with 1960's and 1970's tech, like the IMSAI 8080 or the PDP-10, both available as kits. You're also doing retro when you manage to start WW3.

  30. BenMyers

    SDD, DOS and Windows 98

    Does installing an SSD in a Pentium 100 DOS computer or an elderly Windows 98 computer count as retro?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: SDD, DOS and Windows 98

      Why yes, yes it does. there is a thriving retro community restoring all levels of PCs from the very first IBMs up, probably, Pentium III's and original Pentium 4's.

      Part of the attraction has been being able to build a system better by far than we could afford back in the day to play all those games that were often just one upgrade out of reach, or at lower framerates than was ideal. Especially the early era of 3D GFX cards like Voodoo's etc' Who could afford two in an SLI config back then? Or maxing out the RAM and putting in a high end sound card? Similar applies to Amiga and Atari ST owners. there was stuff that we couldn't do without expensive upgrades, and now we can. Not that it's all that much cheaper now, but because we are old, kids have left the nest, mortgage is paid off and we can afford to indulge in some hobbies and as has been mentioned, there's an enormous amount of effective h/w replacements for broken kit of you can't find working originals, such as XT/AT and IDE interfaces for Flashcards because who has (or wants) working spinning disks 30-40 years old with an ST-509 interface :-)

  31. David M

    One advantage of cassettes

    I still have a few old radio programmes on pre-recorded cassette, and one of the things I like is that I can press 'play' and the programme picks up exactly where it left off, even if the tape was previously in a different player. Is there any modern recording medium where every album remembers its place?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: One advantage of cassettes

      I think the USB port in my car tries to be that clever, to some extent. But it can be a bit too clever at times. I can take the pendrive out, and even a few days later after multiple ignition cycles, I put the pendrive in and it remembers what is was last playing and where it was up to. But that's the play, not the media, so not transferable like a cassette tape. The bit where it sometimes gets a bit too clever, is when I've listened to all the stuff on my pendrive (audiobooks, not music), I taek it out and replace with a new set of audiobooks and the car player tries to continue where it left off because it recognises the physical pendrive but not the content. I'm guessing it reads list of directories and tracks and gives some sort of numeric reference and only saves that.

  32. Pantagoon

    Todays tech will be dead and useless in the future because all the cloud ecosystems they rely on will be closed down.

  33. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

    The Retro Factor

    There's another factor at work in the retro craze, but I don't have a name for that factor.

    I've heard various people spout off on having been at the Woodstock music festival, and how great it was, etc., and I think, "You lying shithead! I am obviously decades older than you, and I wasn't at Woodstock -- I was still in primary school at the time!"

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