UK expands police facial recognition rollout with 10 new vans heading to a town near you A fresh expansion of UK crimefighters' access to live facial recognition (LFR) technology is being described by officials as "an excellent opportunity for policing." Privacy campaigners disagree. The Home Office said today that more police forces across England will gain LFR capabilities thanks to ten new "cutting edge" vans …
>I thought you were referring to the people protesting outside hotels.
No those people are fine upstanding concerned members of society. I just want to make it clear I am against anti-genocide grandmothers and everything they stand for (*)
(* this comment complies with government requirements to be against any people who are against anything the government's American friends best friends do)
Isn’t the real dream of every aspiring politician to ‘serve the public’ so hard that they end up kneeling on the poor and orchestrating a neat little genocide - all while convinced they’re doing humanity a favour and earning a glowing chapter in the history books?
“An excellent opportunity for policing” is PR-speak for “we’ve found another way to expand surveillance without having to bother with Parliament.” Live Facial Recognition is just Nazi-era skull measuring brought up to date - the same obsession with categorising and tracking human beings, now wrapped in silicon and sold as “innovation.”
It’s billed as “targeted” and “intelligence-led,” but in reality it’s a roving biometric dragnet - deployed without warning when convenient, cross-referenced against watchlists swollen by passport and immigration databases, all without a statutory basis. The absence of law is treated as permission, not prohibition, and anyone questioning it risks the wall of secrecy that comes with the Official Secrets Act.
We’re told it’s about catching dangerous criminals, but the arrest stats are cherry-picked PR fodder. There’s no solid evidence this will reduce crime - only that it will normalise treating every passerby as a walking barcode. The winners aren’t the public; they’re the vendors, consultancies, and procurement middlemen whose “public safety” contracts somehow morph into Mediterranean yachts.
The state is steadily building a Chinese-style apparatus of oppression - only without the manufacturing base or middle-class living standards. Just the cameras, the databases, and the constant monitoring of the slaves, locking in a surveillance state you’ll never vote your way out of.
I thought the kind of the crime the public's interested in keeping down involved stuff like bag snatching and other street crime, home break ins, theft from and of cars and so on. The kind of nuisance crime we all seem to have to live with. (I used to live in Manchester where, as I describe it to people today, "If it wasn't nailed down it got immediately stolen and if it was nailed down it just took a bit for the scallies to pry is up".) I must admit that a 'registered sex offender' who's not sex offending would be a relatively low priority for me because, among other things, thanks to all this technostuff 'they' (the cops) know exactly who you are, where you live and pretty much what you're up to at all times -- in a sense we're all 'registered', especially if we're law abiding.
Unlike in Putin's Moscow where they specifically focus on flagging the most colorful balaclavas ...
... not to mention 1980s fashion T-shirts, some Perlin Noise foundation makeup, a bit of powdering to the nose and cheekbones, and some dazzling non-Juggalo facial-feature artistry ...
I met my own doppleganger once. It was very bizarre. If a crime occurred at that moment, I can imagine the confusion of the 'eye witnesses'.
The police would have arrested us both without further ado. 1984 was written in England by an Englishman warning about the fascist undertones in England.
"1984 was written in England by an Englishman warning about the fascist undertones in England."
Only Fergal Sharkey lives in England, the rest of them still live in Northern Ireland AFAIK.
I wouldn't class The Undertones as fascists. Fergal's much too busy these days campaigning against the English Water Companies to have time to be a fascist.
In the USA, there was a case where a young woman was arrested for shoplifting and fighting the security guys. Both security 100% identified her. Her case went into the local newspaper fortunately with her photo.
The actual shoplifter saw this, had a bad conscience (sending someone to jail is a much worse matter than a bit of shoplifting) and went to the police. The two security guards were shown both women side by side and couldn't believe it. The judge saw them both and was equally flabbergasted.They looked absolutely identical. First woman was released, they didn't say what happened to the second one. If I was the first judge, I would have gone to her court case as a character witness, together with the first woman, and done what possible to minimise any punishment. But that was in the USA.
Moreover error rates are real and measurable. Rigorous studies have shown false positive rates (where two prints are wrongly identified as from the same person) in operational or test conditions are nonzero. For example, one large U.S. study found a false positive rate of 0.1%—meaning that, out of 1,000 comparisons, about one will falsely match two prints from different people.
Around 7.5%, of crime scene prints can't be matched even when they should be.
"Moreover error rates are real and measurable."
The systems are being sold as 100% accurate since that's the only way that they'll be able to sell them. Even if they say 99.9%, that's 1 out of a thousand incorrect and at a place with a large number of people, that's an unacceptable "stop and question" rate. Even more so since that same person is likely to be falsely matched over and over when these systems don't get any feedback.
I recall a story where FR identified a person as a criminal suspect and spent several days in jail. The CCTV imagery used was notoriously crap and the filth failed to notice that the woman they arrested was 8 months gone and the person on the CCTV was skinny as a rail. The woman arrested had a record which is why she was in the system to be identified.
FR is a tool. One doesn't build a house with nothing but a hammer. Copper college needs to teach the medical method of ruling things out. A doctor will examine somebody ill and then from their list of possible illnesses, start eliminating the things it isn't. Police need to do the same thing rather than cherry picking data to pin charges on person they "just know dun it and won't own up".
There's no way to get everybody's fingerprints perfectly and compare them all to find out for sure that they are all unique. It's very statistical and it's rare to recover a perfect and complete fingerprint. Again, it's just one tool and a detective needs to see if what they have is falsifiable. A case just gets colder if they are determined to implicate somebody innocent while the real culprit remains free.
"A million people look like me?"
I've never come up with names for certain gross features, but I see people all the time that I could put in a certain "look" group if I labels for those slots. If I took two people out of one file, dressed them the same, applied the same hairstyle and makeup (being a normal guy, I look more at women), they'd wind up looking at least closely related and often interchangeable if I didn't know them well. Things diverge for video and differing facial expressions which would add a processor intensive third dimension to FR to change it to "person" recognition. I've had people send me images they swear could be me that are of a famous person. I don't look like that person that much, but the photo caught them in a way that, for that instant, makes us appear close enough. This is a big reason I'm very skeptical about the technology. Resolution is another factor. The face on Mars in higher resolution than the one that was first taken doesn't look like a face at all. That and humans are hardwired to see faces.
" "V" was about an lizard alien invasion."
Yeah, and I never understood that. There is absolutely nothing on nor in this planet that would justify an invasion. I mean the women are very nice and cats are cool but you could hire a couple, milk them for eggs and breed billions back on Planet Vee. Everything else is available an great, huge, literally astronomical amounts closer to Home.
Invading France from England in the 12th Century made a tiny bit of sense in an era of scarce resources such as land but a star-travelling species has entire Galaxies of land to play with.
And, as every SF story tells us, humans are rather annoying.
Even if the V-ans replaced our leaders with their own people in masks (as many people think may have happened in USAlia recently, though I can't see Aliens as being both able to travel between the stars and being that dumb) the effort would far exceed any possible reward.
Aliens just ain't going to war on us. Not because they are nice or peaceful or even enlightened but simply because it's not worth the bother.
Stealing empty planets by the millions is easier and cheaper and doesn't get your people killed by "The Resistance".
Oh, was that off-topic?
"Even if the V-ans replaced our leaders with their own people in masks (as many people think may have happened in USAlia recently, though I can't see Aliens as being both able to travel between the stars and being that dumb)"
One day we may be able to travel between stars, do you think politicians will have evolved by then?
"V" was about an lizard alien invasion."
Well you completely missed the point of that show! It's about what happens when a bunch of facists invade and set up a Police State, at first it's all smiles and "We simply want to make things better.", until the truth comes out that they're really here to commit genocide. If you only watch one clip, watch the part with the old Jewish guy saying he remembers it all happening before in Germany during the 1930s, he's very quickly told he's a mindless old fool until we learn he's right.
Since the plod need a lot of network bandwidth to compare the the pictures against the police database how do they get the data? It'd be terrible if they got a network notspot. What happens if everyone is streaming a concert. It'd be terrible to dos them.
Do they get a help desk?
"Since the plod need a lot of network bandwidth to compare the the pictures against the police database how do they get the data?"
The imagery is pre-processed before being sent off and breaks down what's thought to be unique key measurements and ratios rather than a whole photo and overlaying that with every other photo to find a match. That had me thinking some time ago if I could generate an image that looks like me to a human but somebody else (or nobody at all) to an FR system. What if I used that generated photo to send in for a new passport? It would look like me, but not necessarily to a computer running a popular FR program sold by a large vendor.
Looks like China is slightly lagging the US in terms of CCTV Cameras Per 1,000 People, probably owing to its 4x larger total population, but #3 Russia is only slightly ahead of #4 UK ... so, a Big Brother Bravo to you Mr. Orwell Panopticon!
Surveillance-wise, on a city-by-city basis, China clearly leads the way, Moscow is #7 (20 cams/1000 ppl), London is #12 with 13 cams/1000 (the City of London Borough has 75/1000 -- kudos!) and LA is the #13 laggard at 12 cams/1000. Pfaaah!
Then again, seeing how the UK has a 20,000,000 person strong watchlist (approx 1/3 of the populace), it may be more expedient to just arrest every loiterer and tourist around, and release 2 "non-suspects" out of every 3 of them ... and then ship those extra 20,000,000 over to the Chesapeake or Australia, like in the good old days ... "more room to play"!
Bonus! This will also right solve the otherwise intractable water availability problem we're facing these days, without having to delete all those 150,000,000 passport and driver license photos of "innocent" (so-called) people that we've put in the Police face-match database (just in case, for future AI precogs and all ...).
Just a little more effort to keep the dystopia getting better, and better then. Wear shades! </snark>
The barstewards at the WEF have been wittering on about how water should be rationed and charged (more) for. So, the shortages, which are due to greed & corruption will get worse. There is a book or film, don't recall which called The Great Taking describes how the so called "elites" (narcissitic psychopaths) intend taking all wealth and rendering the ordinary people who survive as serfs to serve them. Many of us cannot survive the level of poverty about to be inflicted.
Before condemning this as conspiracy theory (it's just conspiracy) start looking at all the changes to law, rules, the debt and what receives good funding such as CBDC, 5G, surveillance and digital id. Listen to the talk about NetZero, UN Agenda 2030, transfer of power to WHO, overpopulation etc. Look at the people embedded in the institutions of government (controllable puppets). Then draw a straight line to where it ends.
This is no joke, it isn't new, but the technology to enable it is. If you think humans are not capable of doing this to each other, take a trip through history.
You seem to have turned into snowflakes since then. You have the most freedom destroying government in the Western world, well maybe Canada beats you. Never thought the Aussies would stand for it, but you have. You're the same as the rest of us now. That Aussie no bullshit aggression has been vanquished by your own leaders.
"without having to delete all those 150,000,000 passport and driver license photos of "innocent" (so-called) people that we've put in the Police face-match database"
The last time I had to get a new photo for my license, I let the face fuzz go wild and grew my hair long as well to cover my ears. The photo on my DL is of somebody with a well-developed homeless style. I don't' know if the computers can see through that or not, but it was worth a try and not specifically banned. They® don't know that I usually have my hair cut short and shave my face regularly. I haven't renewed my pisspot for some time as I've not contemplated any international travel. Having a radically different image on that could cause issues going through customs.
"580 arrests but they’ll all be released."
That's a big problem. When I watch the court/cop shows, charges get dropped or dismissed even after the person fought with the cops and took half a police force to wrestle them to the ground and bring them in at the conclusion of a dangerous high speed chase. It seems like the worst offenders with long records have become so good at working the system that they get the best plea deals.
OTOH, make a disparaging comment on social media and they can manage to collect you before dawn and have you hosed down and hung out in a month.
Been happening for a while. I once looked through the prosecutions in the local rag. All the ne'er do wells driving with no tax, insurance or MoT got a £25 fine. The guy speeding £200 because he could pay. The should've at least taken the cars of the ne'er do wells or bang them up for a while if they couldn't pay a suitable fine.
"one "overpaid third party contractor" sat looking at multiple TV screens is somehow safer riiiiiiiiight!?"
The contracting company will be overpaid and the drone watching the feed will be making minimum wage with no benefits other than a bottle available if they need a pee before their scheduled break.
"Constantly reducing the actual amount of police officers actually patrolling the streets"
Where I live, we could use more officers on duty. Even at the police station there doesn't seem to be anybody around. I was across the street when a violent incident took place in the PD's parking lot and it took 5 minutes to get an officer on scene. We are getting a brand new skateboard park! After the lawsuits start piling up from injuries, I expect it will be ripped out again and there will be more whinging from the city council to increase the special tax assessment so they can hire more cops after the court awards drain the coffers.
In our little village, we've had a stabbing in the supermarket and a death after a fight in the pub. Still never seen a copper on patrol years later. Be nice to know they're around on the streets looking for crime not just sat in an office looking for hurty words on the Internet.
It's time to hand over all law and security to the blokes currently screaming at random hotels, draped in flags - which is exactly what Reform have promised to do!
Can't say that will end well, but it's what people online want.
At least crime stats will go down, as they won't convict themselves of beating up their partners.
No, it's not what they want, it's desperation. We all want the tolerant, liberal Britain as it was for a while. But when hordes of young men arrive ILLEGALLY or even legally and behave badly we want action. It has nothing to do with skin colour, it has nothing to do with ethnic country of origin. It's about behaviour. It applies to all ethnicities including white skinned and indigenous. There also needs to be respect and acceptance of British culture. I don't visit another country and expect it to change for me. I chose to go there and I must accept their culture and their ways. As for illegal entry, well it is illegal and for the few that really were severely persecuted, being interned for a while until proof is found won't be so bad. When that proof is found, then welcome. As for the hotels etc, are we providing that for our out of work youths? Why not?
People want equally applied law, benefits, taxes and rights not selective.
They may be closely linked. But I don't believe in guilt by association. But yes cultural compatibility should be a requirement and crimes of abuse, violence and domination should be dealt with very firmly indeed. Even for legal entry there should be a probationary period. Despite what some may say, it's not unreasonable to expect new house mates to fit in.
The sentiment is correct but if they are British citizens, no you can't deport them. They are subject to British law and violence is only legal in self defence. It used to be the cornerstone of British justice to treat all equally. That seems to have faded away. Never was true for darlings of the establishment though; now then, now then.
"UK police are typically only able to use LFR for specific investigations and can only scan crowds for faces on a police watchlist, which is populated by around 20 million images."
Is there any context that could be added to this number?
On reading it (as a lay person) either about 1/3 of the UK population is "wanted" in some way, or we're possibly looking for every criminal from the shoplifters of Little Hadingham to the carjackers of Cape Town, the latter being unlikely to be reasonably expected as a "hit". Is it perhaps a combination of images of as yet unidentified persons from crime scenes (so possibly many images will actually relate to one person), grainy CCTV not worth using, passport photos (https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/08/uk_secretly_allows_facial_recognition/?td=readmore) or a mixture of these and/or something else? Perhaps some kind of subset is used?
I think that, if available, some explanation of the number might help inform the debate, as clearly fewer than that fraction of the population are being invited for a chat down at the station whilst out picking up their groceries. Unless the hit rate is really really poor, or they're all very good and hiding.
"Unless the hit rate is really really poor, or they're all very good and hiding."
There's varying degrees of "wanted". Somebody suspected of murder will be wanted right away, somebody with unpaid traffic citations might tie up resources that can't be spared and will find that their license/registration is cancelled and their insurance invalidated which might encourage them to take care of things without needing an escort. I've seen plenty of shows there the person is handed a summons and let go but their car goes to car jail and can't be bailed out until they take care of the other things (at many groats per day in storage fees).
While UK police have had budget cuts stripping out most considered back-office (requiring 'frontline' staff to go and do those duties) and odd knock-on effects like some of the worst trousers in the world (chafing, crushing genitals whether male or female, and a bunch of similar problems.) Well, what's a little practical spending when there's the siren song of AI calling?
"nd odd knock-on effects like some of the worst trousers in the world (chafing, crushing genitals whether male or female, and a bunch of similar problems.)"
Smart coppers (oxymoron?) will have some tailoring done. I resurrected my sewing skills so I could make lighting modifiers for photography. Buying them is extremely dear. That's also led to me repairing clothes and making more alterations so things fit better. With YouTube, there's endless tutorials. I really like that some commercial patterns come from real people who make a companion video for the design. I'm trying to work up to doing some pants/shorts that are fitted out with pockets to fit specific things for work.
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