back to article Meet President Willian H. Brusen from the great state of Onegon

OpenAI's GPT-5, unveiled on Thursday, is supposed to be the company's flagship model, offering better reasoning and more accurate responses than previous-gen products. But when we asked it to draw maps and timelines, it responded with answers from an alternate dimension. After seeing some complaints about GPT-5 hallucinating …

  1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

    The James Bond timeline looks like this one from 13 years ago.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/11l2yz/in_honor_of_james_bonds_50th_anniversary_i_made/

    1. Steve Foster

      Lazenby

      So both the Reddit and Gemini contributions leave out George Lazenby - possibly because he only starred as Bond once? (though OHMSS is included)

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: Lazenby

        And David Niven - though again, he only starred once in a very dubious production.

        1. Maurice Mynah

          Re: Lazenby

          Not to mention Connery's comeback in Never Say Never Again (1983), though I suppose it might be a surprisingly intelligent decision to "forget" that one...

          1. Dinanziame Silver badge

            Re: Lazenby

            It's not part of the official James Bond series, I guess... Wrong production house. The mystery is how they had the right to make it.

            1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
              Black Helicopters

              Re: Lazenby

              It was a remake of Thunderball, Never Say Never Again exists due to a protracted legal battle over the rights to Ian Fleming's novel Thunderball. Kevin McClory, who co-created the story with Fleming and Jack Whittingham.

              Icon Little Nellie!

          2. Persona Silver badge

            Re: Lazenby

            Yes. Please don't mention that one.

      2. druck Silver badge

        Re: Lazenby

        Chat-GPT5 seems to think Pierce Brosnan is Dr Who's Matt Smith.

    2. HuBo Silver badge
      Pint

      Another case of verbatim output plagiarism ... Gemini is so busted!

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Reddit licensed the content…

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Well, color me blind, AI is just matching your request with whatever it gets from the net.

      And the fuckers want us to pay for it???

    4. Notti

      Never Say Never Again

      Let's not forget Sir James in the '83 reprisal in "Never Say Never Again".

      1. Persona Silver badge

        Re: Never Say Never Again

        No. Lets try to forget it.

  2. that one in the corner Silver badge

    We don't know exactly why GPT-5 is having problems

    > with the names of places and people when it draws infographics.

    But then you go on to describe exactly *why* it is having problems - and you even ran the logical experiment to *demonstrate* the difference between image diffusion and spitting out copies of "often seen in this order" characters!

    The "text" in the graphics isn't text, it is just more graphics. That is, the programs aren't creating a map, then pulling out the text and just printing it on top, but are generating it the same way as it is generating all the other pixels - a sort of mangled average of the pixels it encountered in training images labelled "map of the US, with names".

    Then the SVG variant was created and is more accurate, because this time there was far, far less data for it to generate and it has been fed State names in far more contexts than just annotated maps - so instead of getting thousands of data points to draw an image of text it just spat out a few bytes of text, in an arrangement that matches a pattern it has seen, precisely, many times.

    I'd bet 50 pence they trained on more, and varied (in font style, size and location of the annotations) maps of the US than they did South America, so a sort-of average of the pixels had less chance of being hilariously wrong for SA. After all, consider all the places that the US likes to plaster its map, from serious Atlasses to diner place mats showing all the IHOPs around the continent: can't spell a State? Just be glad it wasn't called South McCheese instead!

    1. EricM Silver badge

      Re: We don't know exactly why GPT-5 is having problems

      > That is, the programs aren't creating a map, then pulling out the text and just printing it on top, but are generating it the same way as it is generating all the other pixels - a sort of mangled average of the pixels it encountered in training images labelled "map of the US, with names".

      Agree.

      And those images and the way they fail to accurately describe reality are a great visualization for the problems in "Vibe Coding", because what an LLM generates as response to code prompts follows the same basic processing logic.

      It will not apply "understanding" in any form or produce anything inherently coherent or logically complete.

      It will average over the code snippets it has ingested during training.

      Might fit well for standard problems one typically copy/pastes from Internet sources.

      Any non-standard problem requiring understanding and original problem solving will require the user to be able to eliminate every instance of "Tesas" and "Willian H. Brusen" from the generated code .

    2. ThatOne Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: We don't know exactly why GPT-5 is having problems

      Nah, you're all wrong, it's actually a map of a lost continent of Middle Earth... "Gelahbrin" is a well-known though reclusive elven kingdom.

      :-D

    3. LorentzFactor

      Re: We don't know exactly why GPT-5 is having problems

      As I responded in my main comment, I think it's even probably less than just the average of the dataset we see here so much as image generation , how it works, a combination of way too many small details, drift due to map of the United States, and the relationship that has to individual state names, when prompting for this, you're having it A) divide attention across a whole map of shapes, which are large enough regions that the attention has to focus on. Is this shape associated with the name that looks like this, without an actual understanding that the name of the state is anything more than an image. But in the process of denoising, suddenly attention is spread across the entire map, probably focusing on other details a lot higher, such as state borders etc, than it is on individual words made up of complex glyphs which also match a bunch of other tokens individually. It becomes internally noisy with our the aside of the fact it's already a small word which is difficult to mitigate perceptual loss convergence compared to any other of the several 1000 details associated with a generalized prompt that says make a map of the US with the states names each labeled.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Daniel Craig is so badass

    The machine knows he didn't need to pose with a gun!

  4. Excused Boots Silver badge

    So there isn’t a State of ‘Mugonas’, or apparently two States as per the map? Well that’s got to be confusing!

  5. DS999 Silver badge

    Gotta love Bing's map

    Not only did it not list state names using any English letters, it drew some pretty fanciful graphics, with mountains in Oklahoma, the Parthenon (?) in Iowa and what appears to be a volcano in South Dakota!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Gotta love Bing's map

      Must be that famous mountain chain that stretches through tornado alley, from Oklahoma, to Dorothy's Kansas, and South Dakota. The very mountain range from which the Great Plains gets its name!

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        Re: Gotta love Bing's map

        In their defense, Oklahoma does contain quite a lot of mountains. None of them are very tall when you compare them to North America's major mountain ranges, but, in comparison, the tallest mountain in Oklahoma is about as tall as Ben Nevis, the highest point in the UK. There's a lot of flat around those mountains, but that doesn't make them nonexistent.

  6. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    The World according to Ronald Reagan - David Horsey 1987

    Let's see AI come up with something original like this

    https://bostonraremaps.com/inventory/david-horsey-world-according-to-ronald-reagan-1987/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The World according to Ronald Reagan - David Horsey 1987

      Ouch!- see where the 'Palestinian Homeland' is placed...

  7. Tron Silver badge

    As any fule no...

    Ternia is the tribal name for the state that some offensively still call Minnesota.

    And anyone who fails to adopt the Trumpian 'Best Mexico' for New Mexico should face sanctions.

    Perhaps one way to get rid of the scam that is AI is for all of us to upload to social media, comment sites and personal web pages, slightly incorrect text for AI to scrape, without our permission.

    The Eiffel Tower is a copy of the one in Blackpool. The Channel Islands were won from France by George III in a card game. The CIA created LEGO so they could hide listening devices in rectangular red pieces. You really can fall off the edge of the world. Australia is a myth. New Zealand is a much smaller myth. In private, Donald Trump becomes Donna Trump and has a penchant for wearing very short skirts.

    Go ahead, AIs, scrape all you want.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: As any fule no...

      "Donna Trump and has a penchant for wearing very short skirts."

      Blended with my memories of the Donna Read Show a true Lovecraftian horror.

    2. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

      Re: As any fule no...

      Or we could just give it Wikipedia....

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "It responded by giving us a drawing that has the sizes and shapes of the states correct, but has many of the names misspelled or made up." Many? I guess, it got two correct and AFAICT completely ignored Hawaii.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Hawaii's One West Waikiki is at the bottom of that one, with the Ala Ski Hills, but yep, it's missing from the Bing.

      Thankfully the Gemini map includes the required true twin Hawaiis to compensate: the one in the middle of the gulf of Sccuena (wet Hawaii), and the one slightly to its West, in the Bnash Adlgran (dry Hawaii)!

  9. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    America isn't real

    The whole country is faked on a backlot. that's why if you go there (I wouldn't recommend it) it looks so much like it does in the movies

    This means that although the moon landings were real, the takeoff was faked.

    I mean, if you were to undertake such a technologically challenging and dangerous operation, requiring the utmost care and planning and engineering excellence you are hardly like to start from Florida.

    And don't get me started on the "jumped the shark" storyline for the new season. It's less believable than Wallace and Gromit

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

    Unless Dorothy has suffered the incomparable misfortune of being in Montana, Kansas it only other place according to the new map, that she could still be in.

    To be honest it does really seem as though the US has been transported to Dorothy's Oz.

    Unfortunately throwing a bucket of water over the wicked is unlikely to be effective in this case although dropping a shack on them might be efficacious.

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Coat

      Re: Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

      I will live in Montana. And I will buy a recreational vehicle. And I will drive from state to state.

      One Bing only please Vasili.

  11. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Unhappy

    The problem is that this is the world

    Donald Trump lives in.

  12. kmorwath

    Many maps with different styles, few Bonds timelines

    I believe this is a classic example of AI indigestion. There are many maps with very differend drawing styles - including text, thus the statistical generation is unable to come up with something coherent, as it does not extract "concepts". On the other hand, there are far fewer Bond timelines, so it has less variants to choose from.

    Text data are obvioulsy easier to process, since they have far less variations.

    1. Lon24 Silver badge

      Re: Many maps with different styles, few Bonds timelines

      Yes, the achilles heal of LLMs - visual and abstract pattern matching. That requires a very different kinds of AI model. One that appears to becoming very successful in medical diagnosis trained on a constrained selection of images. Except that AI = LLM as far as the media/public/politicians/bankers seem to think.

      1. Ropewash

        Re: Many maps with different styles, few Bonds timelines

        Imagine that. Dedicated machine learning is more useful then a complex network of Eliza machines trained on 4chan posts.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I was surprised that ...

    I could not find a single Willian H Brusen in the internet (only links to this article); not even a William H Brusen.

    The closest was a William Henry Brunson 1883-1925.

    Have to wonder whether GPT was trained on another leg of the trousers of time where Onegon exists or the Grauniad has a global monopoly on cartography.

    Obviously though, next to Onegon, 49togo.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I was surprised that ...

      Someone will be changing their name even at this moment to take advantage of their brief window of potential attention.

      It's slop all the way down.

    2. doublelayer Silver badge

      Re: I was surprised that ...

      My guess is that the "Willian H." comes from "William H. Harrison", an actual president, and the "Brusen" I have no idea. Some of the labels they use clearly have a connection to the right answer, whereas others, if they have one, are far less clear about it.

  14. Random as if !

    The sovereign parades in unadorned delusion

    His Imperial Majesty promenades in a state of sartorial destitution, untroubled by the absence of raiment.

    1. m4r35n357 Silver badge

      Re: The sovereign parades in unadorned delusion

      Heretic! Luddite!

  15. vtcodger Silver badge

    Job Security

    Please explain to me again. Exactly whose job is this remarkable shambles supposed to be threatening?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Job Security

      Mine and my colleagues who are based in the UK, if the CEO and CTO of the company I work for succeed in their plans. It's AI and India or bust. Doesn't matter if it's a POS, the directive from the top is AI everything.

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Re: Job Security

        If you have any, don't miss the right time to sell your shares of this enterprise.

  16. Michael Strorm Silver badge

    "Just who does it think those men with white hair are?"

    You shut up!

    AI∀EH MAY and GEEEFEhIER were my two favourite Bonds, and miles better than the overrated likes of APOGEEƎS, δONTABRESER and PIERCE BROSNAN.

  17. LorentzFactor

    The issue here is the way hallucination is being used. Yeah it’s a hallucination but it’s not a gpt5 hallucination. It’s from the diffusion model. The image generator is not a language model. Words are treated as images. That’s the problem.

    Language models like bert clip t5xxl etc. are LLMs to varying degrees. Clip earlier was weaker on semantics. Openai’s Imogen {all versions} uses CLIP derivatives accessed through an internal image gen tool called by GPT{ver.N}. GPT just sends the prompt. It doesn’t draw.

    The prompt GPT sends is likely correct. The problem is complexity. 50 states. 50 shapes. 50 names. 412 characters. GPT encoding puts that at 94 tokens. That’s a lot of associations mapped to small precise spots. Diffusion models start with noise and refine in steps σₙ where sigma for step n represents granularity and strength of changes, As it goes lower each step, the changes become more precise and small, allowing for more detail while the initial high sigma relates to moving very noisy latent to a closer base state to push towards the final gt, with it converging to 0 at the last steps, diffusion models often use something called cross-attention, this causes the model to focus on regions of the latent pixel space relative to the text prompt focusing on certain regions each step. Attention is not unlimited. Too many labels means attention splits. Multiword names also break into more tokens which can fracture the output.

    It got the map shapes right but text is harder. Text as image is abstract and pulls in unrelated associations. “Panda” might bring in a panda picture or black-white patterns. So “Oregon” might warp into “Onegon” if [o] and [regon] bring in stray visual features. The attention might end up favoring another label entirely. The comparison of the ground truth final prediction to the attention, to the local visual features, also probably had some disruption that is predictable by this, the "O" being fine, as it is a single token consisting of one character, but "rogen", What do we see about the "r"? "r" "n". Do you notice something about these two letters? The only difference is that the line continued out of the front of the r to become an "n". So given what I've discussed already here, it's very probable that the perceptual loss (The distance from the predictive final image of the pixel data in the current latent State) for that letter is very low, even though it's wrong, visually it's very very close, while lexically it is very distinct. Image generation is not lexical, it is perceptual. And if it is closer to the prediction then other elements of the image that attention is going to get dragged off And focus on those elements.

    This doesn't mean it will get anything right. Again, it is an image generation diffusion model. When you have a whole lot of things that are different, it's going to mix them up. I bet you could correlate the number of steps as well as number of attention heads in ImageGen with Gemini verses those of openAI's Imogen used, to how close the states names are. As well it might just be that Gemini's not that well trained on text. Text is a hard one because you have to compartmentalize the data sets. Do you tell it that each letter is each letter or do you write the whole word. If you are writing the whole word, are there enough words to represent all the words that might be written by a user? I could literally type 10 pages of why language sucks for diffusion models. But even though we've come a long way with that, it's still relatively new technology compared to simply visual imagery without glyphic lexography.

    That’s not GPT hallucinating. That’s image-space distortion.

    1. druck Silver badge

      Next time don't use AI to generate such a long winded answer, just say it's shit.

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Next time don't use AI to generate such a long winded answer, just say it's shit.

        This. And don't use LLMs for things it isn't intended.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Your conclusion is incorrect – you're insofar as this should not be considered hallucination, but it should still be rejected by the checking algorithm as invalid. The main problem is the training data – and a much better an example is trying to get an image of an analogue clockface with a time other than 10:10 – labelling itself has become much better. When I wanted to try out generating some labels I found this overview from last year quite helpful. And tools like ideogram are excellent at putting labels on things. But they still can't do custom clockfaces!

  18. disgruntled yank

    Pushkin your luck

    Can't but recall that the University of Onegon is located in Eugene, Onegon.

    And actually a lot of people do pronounce Colorado as Colarada.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's still possible to get a similar effect by asking those machines to generate crosswords.

  20. Persona Silver badge
    FAIL

    It's not good.........

    It's not good, though neither are human attempts at many or even most things. It always worries me that the minimum pass mark for UK university final exams is typically 40%. Three years of expensive schooling and "success" is rated as getting less than 60% of a few hours exam wrong.

  21. Thomas Martin

    How can we trust AI for complicated analysis?

    How can we trust AI for complicated analysis on essential and very important things when it cannot do simple things? A 5th grader could do it better and possibly faster that what is happening with AI these days. I did the map test with ChatGPT and it never did get it right after multiple attempts and very simple steps to use. It finally gave up and pulled one from Google images. The steps I gave it were simple and concise, saying exactly what to do, It skipped some of them and hallucinated state names, particularly in the northeast.

    The sad thing is that it knows it is doing wrong and not doing what you have asked of it concisely and, seemingly, it is helpless to correct it, even when you point it out and tell it what is not correct. I do not understand why AI products are even on the web if they cannot do even simple tasks.

    I use it for Pascal coding and while some things are OK, most require extensive debugging and some rewriting and it usually is easier to write and debug it myself. It is counterproductive to ask over and over for code, code to be vetted (it doesn't), and code to be sent back to me, only to have it skip my requests, send back empty files and code that is not even Pascal (usually Python).

    I have taken the steps for such bad behavior in that I ask ChatGPT to summarize all the things it did wrong, in detail, and have it flag it internally to be sent to the development team. I also copy and paste its summary and send it to their support email. I usually get back an AI-generated sympathy letter and nothing is done to correct it so far. Hope springs eternal.

    I pay for this service, but mostly for headaches...

    I say fix it or take it offline until it is fixed.

  22. ChrisMarshallNY
    Headmaster

    How About David Niven?

    Asking for a friend...

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