back to article Trump tariffs turn techies topsy-turvy as US braces for PC tax

Tariff uncertainty caused by US President Donald Trump still hangs over the PC industry despite manufacturers navigating a "complex regulatory maze" to avoid being in the firing line over import taxes when the shooting begins. Computers are still exempt from the levies that Trump's administration is hellbent on introducing, in …

  1. cyberdemon Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Hmm

    With cyberattacks against large IT distributors, Trump's tariff war, a decline in global shipping, and looming war in Taiwan, it may soon be impossible to buy new IT gear for love nor money..

    1. Sudosu Silver badge

      Re: Hmm

      Yeah could be interesting for Windows llandfill edition sales.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hmm

        Windows llandfill edition

        A free (gratis) Win 11 edition that runs on old Win 10 hardware but the only language supported is Cymry (Welsh.)

        A bargain boyo !

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Hmm

          If you have a 38:9 ratio ultra-widescreen monitor

  2. Joe W Silver badge

    Not "reciprocal"!

    FFS, stop using the term "reciprocal" in the tarriff discussion - they are not reciprocal. They are.... based on stupid maths and ignoring the IT sector in the "trade deficit" calculations. I have a trade deficit with my local butcher.

    1. Rafael #872397 Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Not "reciprocal"!

      Reciprocal Obrigatory XKCD

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Not "reciprocal"!

        The tariffs are "reciprocating", they just bounce on and off

    2. DS999 Silver badge
      Holmes

      Re: Not "reciprocal"!

      You should send your butcher a letter telling him you're putting a 100% tariff on all the meat you buy from him. All the revenue from that tax he'll have to pay will balance your trade deficit!

      1. the hatter

        Re: Not "reciprocal"!

        He doesn't pay the tariff, you do when you and your household bring home anything from him. You're trying to encourage yourself to butcher your own meat rather than rely on outside servies.

        1. SomeRandom1

          Re: Not "reciprocal"!

          As beautifully simple as that example is, the MAGA voters will still refuse to accept it.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Not "reciprocal"!

            I suppose they'll blame the price increases on Biden. Nothing is harder to shift than an ill-founded mental model.

        2. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: Not "reciprocal"!

          Whoosh

        3. martinusher Silver badge

          Re: Not "reciprocal"!

          The tariff will be paid for by the butcher doubling the price you pay for your meat.

          Which pretty much sums up what tariffs are. They're a tax paid by people in the US. Revenue from this tax has already figured into the "Big Beautiful Bill" calculations.

          To continue the analogy, you may carry through on your threat to become a vegetarian but the butcher has plenty of other customers. Since you're proving to be capricious -- unreliable -- it would be in his best interests to focus his trade elsewhere, selling you stuff if its convenient (and profitable) but devoting most effort to increasing other trade.

  3. James O'Shea Silver badge

    Idiotic tariff nonsense

    The Orange One has just dropped a 50% tariff on Brazil because the Brazilians are prosecuting his bud, Bolsonaro, the ex-prez of Brazil, for various naughtinesses. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/09/world/americas/brazil-trump-bolsonaro-lula-coup-tariff.html

    Brazil is a major coffee exporter. The US is a major coffee consumer. The only place in the US where coffee can be practically grown is a small area in Hawaii. All other coffee drunk in the US is imported, mostly from Brazil. Hawaiian coffee is allegedly very good, and is most definitely very expensive. It's not as good as Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee, and is more expensive, and there isn't much of it. I have this vision of what will happen in coffee shops around the US, from Dunkin' to Starbucks to Denny's to IHOP to the locally-owned shop over on the corner when coffee gets to be 50% more expensive.

    Is there an IT shop in the US which is NOT fueled by coffee?

    You can't make this stuff up.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      Americans will just have to learn to like tea instead, like normal people.

      1. Jim Mitchell
        Facepalm

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        Yes, the US is also a large producer of tea. Well, no. But unlike coffee, it could be grown in bulk here if people thought that tariffs were not going to change in twenty years instead of two months.

        Of course, since the US is also rounding up and deporting all the people who would actually grow that tea....

      2. Philo T Farnsworth Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        We tried that but it turns out infusing it in Boston Harbor doesn't work so well.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          "We tried that but it turns out infusing it in Boston Harbor doesn't work so well."

          Arguably the US was the noxious brew resulting from that experiment.

          Ain't history funny ? The British government justified the imposts on the colonies in order to offset the expense of defending those colonies. That is also pretty much the sole justification of Trumpty-Dumpty and his MAGA hatters offer for almost all their foreign and trade policy.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        They can have some yummy UK Grown like Yorkshire Tea. Only 10% tariff.

        1. martinusher Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          > UK Grown like Yorkshire Tea

          That's a re-export. Sorry. We've got armies of bureaucrats keeping an eye on this and slapping appropriate tariffs.

          Its possible to grow the stuff in the UK but its not cost effective except for boutique marques. Fortunately what passes for 'tea' in the US is 'bag of random vegetable matter dipped in lukewarm water' so we could probably get by with dried lawn clippings.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "to like tea instead, like normal people."

        Arguably for a very special meaning of "normal."

        I should think great swathes of the US population are already "special" enough without any need for augmentation.

        If Starbucks coffee is typical of US coffee I would imagine that the ersatz coffee of wartime Europe would be a massive improvement.

        Normally ground roasted grain like barley which would be an all American effort unless Trumpty-Dumpty screws Trumpisstani agriculture as well.

        Drink "Victory Joe" and support Bolsonaro !

        (Another Orangutan franchise I imagine although Space Karen might also market his "special K" augmented X~mucklefuck.)

        Muckefuck in German (lit. foul brown dirt.)

      5. FuzzyTheBear Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        You were looking for it. This is war ! .. decent normal folks drink coffee buster. You're the sickos .. drinking a leaf infusion is not only primitive it's totally off the mark. No sane person drinks anything else than beer and have a coffee in the morning .Get bent and have a terrific weekend :)

    2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      ...from Dunkin' to Starbucks to Denny's to IHOP to the locally-owned shop over on the corner when coffee gets to be 50% more expensive.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      Well, in the good'ol days there was BS, or before Starbucks. Coffee was simple, black or white, with our without sugar. Then along came Starbucks and suddenly grabbing a coffee became a whole lot more complicated, a lot more than 50% more expensive and a lot slower. The need to remember 6 people's 17-item cofffee customisation options could be somewhat offset by thinking up names for the barristas and Corporate's fake-sincerity programme. Not rude names, those could be saved for expecting a $5 tip for making a black coffee.

      And given there's so much junk added to many people's Starbucks, they'd be hard pressed to know if it was real or ersazt coffee, so you could make it up without many people noticing. Just have the 'coffee' machine not add a couple of mg caffeine powder to anyone ordering decaff. Not that Starbucks is really a coffee shop any more given it's more a bank and makes bank from convincing people to load their phone app with credit and never spend it.

      Not that Trump would probably notice anyway. Isn't he a Coke drinker? That stuff can be made in chemical refineries in the Blue Mountains of New Jersey, so it's all good.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        Do you need to switch to a nice relaxing herbal tea?

      2. dippy1

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        Are you sure Starbucks use real coffee beans?

        I'm not sure they do..........

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          They use the finest Swiss coffee beans.

          Beans so expensive that no Starbucks in Europe make a taxable profit.

        2. tfewster Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          And even if they did use real coffee beans - the cost of one small component going up by 50% does not mean the cost of the complete "hot beverage" product has gone up by 50%

          1. khjohansen

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            ... Oh but remember to think of the poor E-suite and their bonuses!

          2. gnasher729 Silver badge

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            “ And even if they did use real coffee beans - the cost of one small component going up by 50% does not mean the cost of the complete "hot beverage" product has gone up by 50%”

            The 50% tariff plus capitalism makes the price go up by 60%.

        3. Bebu sa Ware Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          "Are you sure Starbucks use real coffee beans? I'm not sure they do.........."

          Recall the coffee fad a few years ago (pre COVID) where Vietnamese coffee beans that had been ingested by the indigenous monkeys and passed through those simian's digestive system intact were collected and marketed as something rather special for the discerning coffee connaisseur ?

          I might wonder whether Starbucks with typical American "enterprise" might go ape-shit and just omit the coffee bean part of this simian centred process.

          Adding a whole new layer to the concept of enshittification.

          † Not quite accurate but see https://www.helenacoffee.vn/monkey-poop-coffee/

          As a student a cup of the caterers blend coffee aka "scrapings", purchased in the refectory was claimed to contain 43 rat droppings but was generally held that if that were the case it would have tasted far better. ‡ For better digestion don't eat with medical students.

          1. First Light

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            Poor little civets. They lock them up and overfeed them coffee beans. So their little nervous systems are completely destroyed.

            The farmed stuff is just torture. That's why it's wildcrafted (hundreds of £s per kilo) or nothing!

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        "And given there's so much junk added to many people's Starbucks, they'd be hard pressed to know if it was real or ersazt coffee, "

        We in Blighty could sell/licence the recipe for Camp Coffee. As you say, with all the super-sweet extras added into so many Starbucks concoctions, I doubt the average customer would even notice. Of course, if it becomes a major export from the UK into the USA, it'll probably very quickly attract a huge tariff,

        1. Old Used Programmer

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          You jest, but I have some concerns if Trump ever figures out that Raspberry Pis are made in the UK.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            They will be slapped with 25% if he twigs that as made by Sony (contract manufactured in the former Bridgend telly factory).

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

              Well, they have claimed they will be analysing good down to the component level so as to apply the tarrifs of parts from China, Taiwan, Japan etc and the Pi's are mostly only assembled in Wales from mostly Asian sourced parts. I very much doubt they will ever manage to get a system of tracking components to that level of accuracy. After all, one of the prime reasons no one will import US beef is because they can't trace their beef properly despite every other import/export nation having systems in place for years while the US is still mostly paper based (and not helped by them importing young cattle and not breeding their own)

              Mind you, I'm sure if we dropped the Made In UK and replaced it with Made In Wales, it would cause no end of confusion for US Customs as there is no tariff rate for Wales and they've probably never heard of the country anyway :-)

              1. PB90210 Silver badge

                Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

                You can't get away with it that easy... he's met the Prince of Whales back in 2019

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            Raspberry Pis are made in the UK.

            Wouldn't worry overmuch unless you were in the business of importing fruit tarts into the US.

            These are the definitively not clever people who have gone well beyond anywhere any other full retard could have gone.

            First footfalls on the virgin sands of the desert of ultimate idiocy.

            1. martinusher Silver badge

              Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

              >Raspberry Pis are made in the UK.

              I think what you mean is "RPis are assembled in the UK from (nearly all) imported components". The pick and place machine and solder tunnel used in the assembly process is almost certainly imported (likely German) and I'd guess that the PCB material and solder paste didn't originate in the UK. I'd be surprised if even the cardboard carton they're put in originated in the UK.

              However, we shouldn't lose sight of the notion that most business users -- and probably all domestic users outside of the hard core gaming community -- could get by just fine with a RPi. They'll need an (imported) monitor or TV, of course.

      4. The man with a spanner Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        Speaking as an uncouth Brit, Starbucks always tastes to me like some sort of bitter, coffee ish flavoured dish-water. There are much better alternatives.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          The Nutrimatic also does coffee….

          “He had found a Nutri-Matic machine which had provided him with a plastic cup filled with a liquid that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea. The way it functioned was very interesting. When the Drink button was pressed it made an instant but highly detailed examination of the subject’s taste buds, a spectroscopic analysis of the subject’s metabolism and then sent tiny experimental signals down the neural pathways to the taste centers of the subject’s brain to see what was likely to go down well. However, no one knew quite why it did this because it invariable delivered a cupful of liquid that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea. The Nutri-Matic was designed and manufactured by the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation whose complaint department now covers all the major landmasses of the first three planets in the Sirius Tau Star system.”

          I’d be curious if Sirius CC covered those landmasses with A.I. Chatbot data centres ? Sounds like DA predicted Amazon.

        2. David Hicklin Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          > Speaking as an uncouth Brit, Starbucks always tastes to me like some sort of bitter, coffee ish flavoured dish-water. There are much better alternatives.

          The wife & I prefer McDonald’s coffee which is saying something (same for Costa which is just as bad)

        3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          "Starbucks...There are much better alternatives."

          There are, but entire generations of people who never acquired a taste for coffee have fallen for the marketing and think the over sweet, added "flavours" concoctions are what "coffee" is supposed to taste like. It'd be interesting to see a breakdown of what Starbucks and their ilk sell on day by day basis and see just how many customers actually order an "Amercano" or "Flat White" (without or with milk, as we old fogies call them!)

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            > an "Amercano" or "Flat White" (without or with milk, as we old fogies call them!)

            An “Americano” is by definition without milk. A good barista will ask if you want less water to permit you to add milk.

            A “flat white” is just a latte with less milk, in a smaller cup and more expensive.

            Personally, it’s an espresso if you want the full coffee flavour and kick…

        4. Zoopy

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          As an American, I agree entirely.

          The recipe for Starbucks is to burn the beans in napalm, and then sell the water used to cool the ashes.

      5. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        The success of Starbucks, just shows how bad US coffee was “just coffee” from some long brewed filter coffee machine. Mind you, things weren’t much better in the UK - to get a decent Coffee you really needed to visit the Continent.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          ...to get a decent Coffee you really needed to visit the Continent.

          There's something rather depressing about sitting outside a cafe in Italy and watching people going into a Starbucks. Or McDonalds.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            Isn't it good that American tourists are still coming over?

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

              Yeah, we should tariff them. There seems to be a "trade imbalance" of more US tourists coming here than there are us going over there. They are stealing from us and owe us money! </Trumpian Logic[*]>

              * Hah! I bet you never thought you'd see those two words in such close proximity :-)

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          >. Mind you, things weren’t much better in the UK - to get a decent Coffee you really needed to visit the Continent.

          Une tasse de Mellow Oiseaux s’il vous plaît ?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            Mellow Oiseaux

            Très drôle !

            (Not being an inmate of asylum UK I had to consult the interwebs. )

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          It comes down to how your individual taste has developed. Some people like their fish to taste, well, fishy; I don't. Some people can't stand spicy food, I'm OK with it. For coffee, my favourite home brew is an espresso from my DeLonghi bean to cup m/c using Starbucks Sumatra beans. My backup is Starbucks strong dark roast espresso (but I get that from pods using my battery driven m/c as the beans are very oily (they make a deliciously rich espresso but they wrecked my previous bean to cup m/c (after a few months using them, the oil blocked the pressure relief mechanism beyond economic repair).

          I don't exclusively drink Starbucks roasts and regularly visit other establishments, but I've yet to find any beans for use at home that I like more (and coffee is a regular birthday/Christmas/Father's Day gift)!

        4. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          Ahem.

          Cawardines.

          but they've all gone now :-(

      6. Old Used Programmer

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        Worse...That Felon in the White House drinks *diet* Coke.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          Understandable given his unbelievable physique and reported medical fitness standard

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            If only his height was an inch lower his BMI would be...

        2. gnasher729 Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          Diet Coke. That’s why he is so fat.

          1. ITMA Silver badge
            Devil

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            You sure he isn't addicted to SunnyD?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunnyD

    3. Bitsminer

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      The only place in the US where coffee can be practically grown is a small area in Hawaii.

      We can look forward to a 100,000% increase in productivity of Hawai'ian coffee farms, mostly due to AI.

      /s

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      Brazil also supplies over half the iron ore that the US imports now. US has used up all its decent iron ore deposits, so anything left is low quality that will cost a lot more to exploit.

      Since the orange one has put a 25% tariff on all steel imports, he presumably wants the US to make more domestically, so they will need even more iron ore (ignoring how many years it will take to build new steel works).

      The biggest exporter of iron ore in the world is Australia, followed by Brazil with Canada trailing a long way behind in 3rd place. Everyone else are bit players.

      Most Australian ore goes to China and I doubt the miners would break the Chinese contracts to supply the US unless they are willing to pay way over the odds. Too much risk when US trade policy changes on a whim. Even if they do, trump is pissing on Australia with a tariff despite having an FTA AND running a trade surplus. If I was Albanese, I would slap an export tariff on any iron ore (or bauxite, same applies for aluminium) exports to the US.

      That leaves Brazil or Canada. Two countries he has pissed off even more.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        I’m assuming any Biden/IRA subsidies for new eco Electric Arc Furnaces to make steel from scrap/recycle have been cancelled.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          Recycling is woke, even for steel

      2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        Brazil also supplies over half the iron ore that the US imports now. US has used up all its decent iron ore deposits, so anything left is low quality that will cost a lot more to exploit..

        ...Even if they do, trump is pissing on Australia with a tariff despite having an FTA AND running a trade surplus. If I was Albanese, I would slap an export tariff on any iron ore (or bauxite, same applies for aluminium) exports to the US.

        That leaves Brazil or Canada. Two countries he has pissed off even more

        This is why it's going to be interesting to see who blinks first. Tariffs are charged to the importer, so they're going to hurt US businesses probably more than the exporters. It's also a strange way to try and encourage more US domestic production by making raw materials more expensive. Some are blatantly political interference, like Brazil which already has a trade surplus and Brazil can probably just export to China instead. Canada and Mexico also had the USMCA trade agreement that Trump negotiated during his first term, and now is breaking.

        Then there's also fun with Russia and Trump's shadow foreign policy person, Lindsay Graham with Trump indicating he's going to support Graham's grape-crushing 500% primary and secondary sanctions. Which would potentially impact products like titanium and uranium, just as the US wants a nuclear renaissance to power all the AI garbage.

        Part of me wonders if the plan though is to create inflation and provoke massive holders of US debt like Japan, China, Saudi to dump Treasuries, buy those back with newly devalued dollars and try to inflate away a good chunk of the US massive debt pile.. And then if the EU's planning the same thing given all their very inflationary policies.

        1. retiredFool

          Copper

          Crazy continues to escalate with the latest 50% tariff planned on copper. Its almost like he is trying to destroy US manufacturing by making raw materials exorbitantly expensive.

        2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          "buy those back with newly devalued dollars and try to inflate away a good chunk of the US massive debt pile"

          Ah, you mean steal lots of money (or value) from US folks' pensions and savings accounts? The UK tried that in the 70s. Deeply unpopular with anyone who has money, I think you'll find. Still, it isn't clear whether Trump cares about his personal popularity anymore since he can't legally stand for re-election so voters don't matter.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        "Most Australian ore goes to China and I doubt the miners would break the Chinese contracts to supply the US"

        There are literally effing mountains made of the stuff in WA. The good stuff (presumably easy to mine, transport and smelt) goes to the PRC. The PRC buyers welshed on their long term contracts during the GFC and ended up having to buy their ore on the spot market at well over the odds when the economies in this part of the globe didn't tank.

        The PRC learnt a painfully expensive lesson then that the US has yet to learn. We had "words" during COVID but Australia, to purloin a phrase, was in the business of doing business, and didn't threaten or challenge any existing commercial arrangements with the PRC and on the whole Australia's relationship with the PRC since has matured if still rather cool.

        I think one WA miner recently closed a mine because of stagnant demand and inferior ore which could be shipped to Trumpisstan but Trump and Co. having earnt a reputation as "slow payers", cash up front before we even consider digging up the stuff.

        We could probably do a special on thermal metallurgical coal too.

      4. Mr. Moose
        Flame

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        The only industry our Fearless Leader is improving is our domestic *steal* industry.

    5. CA Dave

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      But the covfefe that was made up will never be forgotten.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      Can you not grow it in Florida??

      There will soon be a large number of slave labourers available in Alligator Alcatraz Concentration Camp.

    7. tip pc Silver badge

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      Brazil is a major coffee exporter. The US is a major coffee consumer. The only place in the US where coffee can be practically grown is a small area in Hawaii. All other coffee drunk in the US is imported, mostly from Brazil. Hawaiian coffee is allegedly very good, and is most definitely very expensive. It's not as good as Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee, and is more expensive, and there isn't much of it. I have this vision of what will happen in coffee shops around the US, from Dunkin' to Starbucks to Denny's to IHOP to the locally-owned shop over on the corner when coffee gets to be 50% more expensive.

      adding 50% to the wholesale cost of coffee wont make the retail price go up 50%.

      i can buy a 1kg bag of starbucks coffee from costco for ~ £12

      my coffee machine uses ~ 10g of coffee per serving so i get 100 servings for £12 or 12p per serving.

      a small black coffee in starbucks uk is £3.75

      starbucks get their coffee beans cheaper than i can buy them but lets say they pay the costco retail rate, a 50% increase to 18p per serving is 1.6% of the £3.75 retail price, not 50%.

      yes Starbucks would increase their prices as a result, but they'd not need to add 50%.

      A 5% increase in retail price would be an increase of 19p or more than the actual retail to me price of the coffee, not just the increase.

      i appreciate the sentiment around unnecessary price increases due to stupid tariffs, but its useful to understand the actual costs involved.

      A long time ago i purchased an expensive to me (£600) bean to cup machine as i knew i'd save biggly in the long run. That machine lasted ~14 years and made over 12k cups of coffee ~ £36k of starbucks small coffee in todays prices.

      My answer to the tariffs would be to buy from smaller outlets who need the money more than starbucks. £3.75 for a small black coffee is also bonkers, yet people willingly pay it.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        >” A long time ago i purchased an expensive to me (£600) bean to cup machine”

        One of the things, I have noticed in the UK these last 5’ish years is how the supermarkets firstly increased their range of beans and then increased the bag size. However, in the last couple of years the price of a bag of beans has increased and is generally the same price as a bag of ground coffee of equal weight. Ie. A substantial price increase.

        A “nice” side effect is hat this move has made the various artisan coffee roasters produces more attractive (ie. If I’m going to be paying £15 for 1kg of beans, better pay £16 for 1kg of my local artisans beans which actually have a distinct and pleasant aroma.

        However, your calculation omitted an important consideration: nespresso…

        The coffee pod market is massive and clearly fro the shelf space the supermarkets allocate, profitable. However, these per portion packages will be hit by both the coffee tariff and the aluminium tariff.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          The coffee pod market is massive and clearly fro the shelf space the supermarkets allocate, profitable. However, these per portion packages will be hit by both the coffee tariff and the aluminium tariff.

          I think that's going to be an interesting one to watch. Per portion, the tariff effects should be tiny given they use very little amounts of the product. I'm really not a fan of pods though, but people obviously are and are prepared to pay the collosal margins & ignore the waste issue. I used to have a Krupps bean-to-cup machine, but when that gave up the ghost just switched back to the good'ol French Press. I haven't seen a 'smart' one yet with bluetooth or WiFi, but it suprises me how many people have never seen one before, or how quick, convenient or just cheaper they can be.

          I do agree that the 'Starbucks' effect, or pod coffee has encouraged people to be a bit more adventurous though and helped convert pod-people into proper coffee drinkers.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            ... proper coffee drinkers.

            I can assure you that no one who drinks starbucks or nespresso swill qualifies as being a coffee drinker.

            Proper or not, whatever that is.

            .

        2. tip pc Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          However, your calculation omitted an important consideration: nespresso…

          The coffee pod market is massive and clearly fro the shelf space the supermarkets allocate, profitable. However, these per portion packages will be hit by both the coffee tariff and the aluminium tariff.

          the op mentioned coffee shops so i did my comparison on coffee shops. i don't think the main coffee retail chains use coffee pods so why would i compare against that?

          also coffee pods are inherently more expensive as its not just the beans but the delivery pod & its associated packaging which is never going to be as cheap as the raw beans.

          my point being that on a beans to beans basis, a 50% increase is a tiny fraction of the retail price of a no frills small black coffee my calculations being 1.6% of the current uk price of a small black coffee in starbucks based on retail price of a bag of beans in costco - starbucks would be getting those same beans at a cheaper price than i could so the 50% increase would be even less than that 1.6% of retail price i calculated.

        3. David Hicklin Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          > One of the things, I have noticed in the UK these last 5’ish years is how the supermarkets firstly increased their range of beans and then increased the bag size

          I think you will find that shrinkflation ended this practice quite some time ago

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

            I think it is the combined effects of shrinkflation and profitability. So you are right basically, the majority of the range (ground/beans) is now in the 200g bags. A packet size that probably optimises shelf space, price and return visit within 1~2 weeks.

            Given the amount of coffee drunk in my house, buying a 1kg bags from a local artisan makes sense and also means more money is circulating in my local economy.

            Aside: This gives an insight into the competition for shelf space.

            Why have you discontinued the shaving refills?

            Until they introduced the refill, King of Shaves was in the supermarkets, not any more, not only did the refill bag take up shelf space, it reduced the frequency/number of trips to that aisle…

      2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

        A long time ago i purchased an expensive to me (£600) bean to cup machine as i knew i'd save biggly in the long run. That machine lasted ~14 years and made over 12k cups of coffee ~ £36k of starbucks small coffee in todays prices.

        Yep. A lot of people get confused about how tariffs are applied, ie they're to the landed price of imports, not the shelf price. There will obviously be some impact, but that would depend on importer's margins and how much of the tariff cost they can absorb. Or just use tarrifs as an excuse for more price gouging and shrinkflation.

        Starbucks may also not be a good example for coffee. In the EU, it's somewhat notorius for producing the world's most expensive coffee beans, and its retail branches simultaneously generating both a loss and a profit-

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Starbucks#European_tax_evasion

        The CFO told the committee this reflected costs such as designing new stores and products, but admitted that there was no detailed analysis by which the rate is decided. The coffee they serve in the UK is purchased from the Swiss subsidiary, which charges a 20% markup on the wholesale price and pays 12% corporation tax on profits. Coffee is not transported to Switzerland but the 30 people who work in the subsidiary assess coffee quality.

        No idea what tricks Starbucks plays in the US with their tax policy, but now curious how Starbucks bean price compares to other bean sellers. I avoid Starbucks if at all possible because I think they're one of the scummiest companies on the planet, despite their cuddly PR image.. Plus I'd be dubious about quality from a company that's notorious for ruthless cost cutting. I'm in the UK at the mo, so might have a look at how much their beans cost. I'm generally fuelled by Sainsbury's instant (£6.50 or $8.80 for 500g) and cost per mug depends on how many teaspoons I use. Then when I fancy a decent coffee, I have an assortment of different beans & roasts to suit my fancy.

        But I guess this could also be an area where trade wars kick in. Tax authorities have previously acted on Starbucks and other blatantly synthetic tax avoidance tricks, but might look again, and look harder.

        1. tip pc Silver badge

          Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

          Starbucks may also not be a good example for coffee. In the EU, it's somewhat notorius for producing the world's most expensive coffee beans, and its retail branches simultaneously generating both a loss and a profit-

          well the OP mentioned starbucks & as it's available here in the UK as shops & i can buy their beans in Costco it seemed to be a good example to compare starbucks to starbucks.

          regardless of brand, my point was that coffee is relatively cheap & markups by big brands is scandalous to the extent that a 50% increase in import cost should be hardly noticeable to the consumer & the same brand can often be had at far cheaper prices and convenience if one was willing to do it themselves.

          I'm in the UK at the mo, so might have a look at how much their beans cost.

          like i wrote, a 1kg bag of starbucks beans is often ~£12 from CostCo. I typically buy the lavazza coffee beans which is often ~ £10 per kg. I did buy a bag of Ferraris beans the other month which was excellent but wasn't at my local costco when i last went. https://ferrariscoffee.co.uk

    8. Lazlo Woodbine Silver badge

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      Hawaiian coffee is amazing, but terrifically overpriced.

    9. Version 1.0
      Happy

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      After working in Brazil a lot years ago, I'm still drinking Yerba Mate a lot more often than Tea. I'm happy with Tea, Coffee and Yerba Mate too, each drink reminds me of happy drinking around the world ... LOL (icon), I'm still drinking Guinness too!

    10. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      "You can't make this stuff up"

      Only Thump is allowed to do that.

    11. PB90210 Silver badge

      Re: Idiotic tariff nonsense

      One big beautiful idea touted to get round the tax/tariff on coffee from Brazil/Columbia was to switch to Italian coffee... except Italian coffee is more a style or method as they don't grow the beans

      (a coffee from olives.... would that be tariff free?)

  4. Tron Silver badge

    Stabilise on LTSC until the next election.

    And keep the old kit working.

    That's not difficult for office software. A 10 year old machine has enough poke. Connection speed is more important than processor speed, and has been for years now.

    1. The man with a spanner Silver badge

      Re: Stabilise on LTSC until the next election.

      My 15 year old laptop ambles along doing all I need from it after a bracing infusion of Mint tea.

  5. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Missing the obvious Trump solution

    All problems caused by tariffs can be solved by firing the federal employees responsible for preventing smuggling.

    1. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: Missing the obvious Trump solution

      Or do it DOGE-style: fire the employees, desperately rehire 50% of them at substantially increased salaries, contract out for most of the rest at some other multiple of the salaried rate and let somebody in the future deal with the reductions in effectiveness and cost efficiency. That'll show those liberals!

  6. DS999 Silver badge

    Everyone is betting heavily that Trump will continue to TACO

    I think everyone making fun of him for constantly caving and pushing back his tariffs is going to get to him at some point and he'll hold firm no matter how badly Wall Street reacts when it realizes he's not going to TACO this time.

    We'll figure out whether he's going to cave (and then declare "victory" somehow) on all the tariff nonsense or he's going to double down and stand firm based on his response to the indications that multiple countries are doing like Xi did and slapping reciprocal tariffs on the US to match the ones he's putting in his letters. He TACOed when China did that, but he's probably afraid of looking weak if he does that again and again.

    Who knew "American First" meant "America all alone"? We may find out what that looks like before long.

    1. The man with a spanner Silver badge

      Re: Everyone is betting heavily that Trump will continue to TACO

      I agree DS999.

      Trump is all about his personal image, so if he thinks he is being mocked (which he is, justifiably) he will dig in.

      Also he is not going to get a loads of pushover deals, other than a few token deals negotiated by the worlds also ran countries (including the UK in this). China, the EU and Japan plus any other self respecting country will be thinking of the long term outcome, not the whim of the next 5 minutes.

      Its a race between some lone nutter with a gun, him making it to end of term and full blown senility. For all its faults I never thought the US would end up like this.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Everyone is betting heavily that Trump will continue to TACO

        "Trump is all about his personal image, so if he thinks he is being mocked (which he is, justifiably) he will dig in."

        I'm not so sure he is fully aware. (He's surrounded by yes men, after all.) Putin has been oprnly taking the piss for months now with no comeback beyond some empty rhetoric.

      2. DS999 Silver badge

        The funniest thing I heard about this

        That I just heard today, was Trump's guy said that the reason they didn't have the 90 deals in 90 days he promised was because "they didn't call us". They were literally so dumb they expected they could install tariffs, then put them on a 90 day hold, and countries would call them up begging for a deal. Looks like most of them figured that ignoring Trump was the best play, because he's going to do what he's going to do and has no problem with going back on a deal he made five minutes earlier. So what's the point of making a deal with him when you don't trust him to honor it?

        Some are probably also figuring that the courts will (eventually, they move slowly) rule that the "national emergency" authority in the law Trump claims he's acting under doesn't let him set tariffs against every country in the world. He put one more nail in the coffin of that strategy with the 50% tariff announced yesterday on Brazil, because he's mad about Brazil holding his wannabe dictator buddy accountable for the insurrection he failed on. Guess that hits too close to home for the orange traitor. There is no conceivable world in which "Brazil isn't interpreting their laws the way I think they should" constitutes a national emergency in the US!

        But the ones I really love seeing are the ones like Xi calling his bluff and matching him tariff for tariff. Trump is a weak man pretending to be strong by bullying others. Like all bullies, he can't handle it when those he's bullying fight back! I wish all the world's leaders would have a meeting and agree they would all match Trump's tariffs tit for tat. He'd be humiliated on the world stage to an epic level. Man that would be sweet to see!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The funniest thing I heard about this

          Yet when the Japanese trade delegation did actually turn up, nobody would see them. So they went home.

          1. Bebu sa Ware Silver badge

            Re: The funniest thing I heard about this

            Yet when the Japanese trade delegation did actually turn up, nobody would see them. So they went home.

            Perhaps not the best time for a holiday in Hawaii. :)

            History casts long shadows.

        2. toejam++

          Re: The funniest thing I heard about this

          "They were literally so dumb they expected they could install tariffs, then put them on a 90 day hold, and countries would call them up begging for a deal."

          Also, countries had several years to prepare for another trade war with the US. So when Trump tried the same antics as before, the sting wasn't as bad. Which is likely why countries are just going to wait it out.

          1. DS999 Silver badge

            Re: The funniest thing I heard about this

            I don't know that countries like Japan and France and Brazil were expecting huge tariffs. China, sure because he talks about them all the time. Canada/Mexico, probably, because he targeted them last time.

            The penguins on that one uninhabited island he tariffed REALLY weren't expecting it. No wonder they haven't called him up yet, they're still in shock!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Everyone is betting heavily that Trump will continue to TACO

      Who knew "American First" meant "America all alone"? We may find out what that looks like before long.

      Stuck between being shagged on a rock and the hard place.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Everyone is betting heavily that Trump will continue to TACO

      Who knew "American First" meant "America all alone"? We may find out what that looks like before long.

      Isn't that how it always ended when it was tried before? History repeating itself in farce.

  7. IGotOut Silver badge

    It's not just tariffs...

    ...people keep overlooking the Dollar is also tanking.

    And with even bigger debt, it's going to go lower...

    And if he continues to piss Japan and China off, then life in the US is going to get even more expensive.

    1. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: It's not just tariffs...

      Trump probably likes seeing the dollar go down, because it makes imports more expensive and exports cheaper. It acts like a tariff on imports and a a negative tariff on exports. Problem is like "real" tariffs it is the consumers that end up paying, breaking his promise of "bringing prices down".

      Any potential benefit of increased US exports due to them becoming cheaper due to the weaker dollar has been completely sabotaged by his worldwide tariff war. Countries are going out of their way to reduce trade dependence on the US, which will hurt our economy badly in the long run. Trump will be remembered as the man who bankrupted the United States. Fitting for a guy who is such a terrible businessman he bankrupted five casinos and would have gone personally bankrupt (despite inheriting a total of $420 million from daddy) if it wasn't for money he made from The Apprentice cosplaying as a successful businessman exactly the opposite of who he really is.

  8. Roger Kynaston

    distraction

    The BBB/BUB is not going down very well so he needs an orangeism to make people look over there.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TACO

    Just how many will call his bluff?

    TACO Trump has folded too many times now.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And yet..

    77million Americans got what they voted for…

  11. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

    Why Businesses Need New Desktop Computers

    They mostly-don't.

    Some businesses are wired into the Win 10 --> Win 11 upgrade cycle.

    For everyone else: do the LLM/generative AI-supporting features in new CPUs recalculate your spreadsheets more-quickly, or allow them to hold more data than previous-generation CPUs? Do they run your database queries faster? Do they make people type faster? Or think faster?

    The answer to all those questions is, 'No'.

    Buying a (possibly 3rd-party) hardware support contract for your older PCs, and paying Microsoft for extended Win10 security patches will be cheaper than buying new Win11-compatible PCs.

    1. gnasher729 Silver badge

      Re: Why Businesses Need New Desktop Computers

      You are missing the point. Instead of having to fill your spreadsheet with real data and doing real calculations you can use an AI to just make everything up in a tenth of the type.

      And then you’ll get a bridge that you don’t want to cross by car.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Infinite Tariff

    I operate a Infinite Tariff on US goods - I won't buy anything labelled "Made in the USA". (Well, maybe read The Register, even though it has been infused with Yank spelling. Job done.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Infinite Tariff

      I won't buy anything labelled "Made in the USA"

      In AU at the consumer level there is sod all sold that is made in the US.

      Imported out of season fruit like Stemilt cherries and some US confectionery are about it. Even the contentious pharmaceuticals while often supplied by US corporations are actually made elsewhere under licence.

      I don't know that not buying the little imported US primary produce that we do, would harm anyone except the struggling farmer who everywhere never actually benefits from any restriction of trade.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Infinite Tariff

      I put a bottle of Californian wine back on the shelf at the weekend and bought an Italian one instead. The thought of buying a US wine at the moment left a metaphorical bad taste.

      It's a small thing but multiply it by millions and I guess it will add up.

      I'm not even sure what the US exports these days? Their vehicles are pretty much unsellable outside tof the US, most foods contain banned additives, basic materials will be cheaper sourced elsewhere, other than wine, weapons and tech services (FB, MS, Apple, Google) what does the US export in volumes?

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