Don't shoot me, I'm only the system administrator!

Welcome once again to On Call, The Register's Friday column that celebrates the frolicsome fun that readers have experienced when asked to deliver tech support. This week, meet a reader we'll Regomize as "Nigel" who shared a story from 2004 when the office he worked in found itself in the path of Hurricane Ivan, the superstorm …

[Mark #255]

Land of the Free - to be shot

Every time I read an account like this, I thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I don't live in a country where the first instinct of emergency responders is to try and kill anything slightly out of the ordinary

[Michael H.F. Wilkinson]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Blessed be His Noodly Appendages!

[LogicGate]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

RAMEN!

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

I'd rather not have to kill people in the course of my duty...

[Martin Gregorie]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Now THAT sounds like some bits of mid-70s NYC as I remember it, with cops wearing .45s and lounging against walls scratching themselves. Manhattan from Wall Street north to the '70s, i.e. half-way up Central Park, was generally considered fairly safe: I went to rock concerts in the skating rinks at night during the summer and saw Arlo Guthrie etc.

However, we were warned against visiting Harlem, particularly at night and those with British accents were known to be unwelcome in IRA hangouts [thinly disguised as Guinness pubs].

Actually, I remember seeing more NYC cops in the frequent autumn-time street parades than I ever saw on foot patrol or chasing gangsters in armed patrol cars.

[Potty Professor]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

When I took my driving test in Louisville, KY in 1963, the driving tester wore a .45 on each hip, and was so wide that I was scrunched up against the driver's door of our 56 Chevy. He was more interested in giving me the third degree about driving "on the wrong side of the road" where I came from than he was in my actual driving. I actually ran a red light because I was so nervous, but as it was a "Turn right on red after stop" he only admonished me for not quite stopping.

[jake]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Yeah, me too! :-)

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

While everyone appears to be assuming it was the US, I notice that the article doesn't actually mention which country out of "the Caribbean and the USA" Nigel was working in?

Or are we to make the default assumption that it *was* the US now that TheRegister.com is aimed at a Yank-centric market?

(Yes, the US is most likely by numbers and "get a bead on" is apparently a "North American" expression, but we shouldn't have to guess).

[hittitezombie]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Of course it's the US.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Okay, but *why* is that obvious?

Specifically without it having been explicitly mentioned in any way other than the assumption that these things are US-centric by default- and any other country would have been named- or the assumption that none of the affected Carribbean countries had any IT infrastructure of note and/or issues with a gun-happy populace or police so it wouldn't be them?

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Nonchalantly "get a bead on" and everyone has a good laugh, and there is only THAT ONE country in the path of Hurricane Ivan where being this trigger happy is considered as normal.

Live a half year in an EU country, or south Korea, or China, or Australia, or UK, or any country which does has a (somewhat) stable government and does not oppress their people by default. You will see yourself then. Hell, you can even choose Cuba, if you want to compare... It is closer and was in the path as well.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

> "Live a half year in [..] UK"

I do. Whereas I've never even visited the US let alone lived there (and nor have I ever wanted to).

And I'm well aware of the disastrously militarised US police and their reputation for shooting anything and anyone at the drop of a hat. As well as how ludicrous all that looks to an outsider, not least because I'm one of those outsiders.

Would you have known- and remembered- that Cuba was on the path of a hurricane from over twenty years ago if you hadn't looked it up? If so, you're better than me and- I suspect- the vast majority of people here. Ditto knowledge of which of the affected countries have issues with trigger-happy police.

Anyway, it hadn't been my intention to nitpick this or to get into an argument over it it- it was just an observation (and mild irritation) that everything defaults to the US, taking it for granted that we "know"- or assume- that it's only place that might have gun, IT and/or police problems.

Even if the assumption here was correct- by luck, or otherwise- in this case, it wouldn't be the first time I've seen people discussing a news story in impassioned terms of how this shows everything that's wrong with the US... only for someone to point out what they all should have noticed- that it actually took place in the UK. Or Australia, or whatever.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

> Would you have known- and remembered- that Cuba was on the path of a hurricane from over twenty years ago if you hadn't looked it up?

Of COURSE I looked it up. Though there was a high chance, even without looking, that Cuba was along the path. That is just a well known hurricane alley - albeit the last ten years they moved a bit north-east. Causing more damage in areas previously less affected. The insurance companies, especially the insurer-insurers know the real numbers. Munic Re as well known example.

> gun, IT and/or police problems

Remove the "or" in that sentence. IT problems are everywhere. Gun problems, at least in areas which are non-war non-rebel well-developed, are unique to USA alone. Police problems, the way US has, is unique too. Only some other countries among the non-war non-rebel well-developed have real police problems, but a different style.

[EricB123]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

"That is just a well known hurricane alley - albeit the last ten years they moved a bit north-east. "

Either that, or some guy with a Sharpie could widen the storm's path (if you know what I mean).

[Sherrie Ludwig]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Anyway, it hadn't been my intention to nitpick this or to get into an argument over it it- it was just an observation (and mild irritation) that everything defaults to the US, taking it for granted that we "know"- or assume- that it's only place that might have gun, IT and/or police problems

Fair point. However, I may be safe in saying no other country in the world has "exported" its culture, such as that is, via mass media so pervasively. Movies and television worldwide for nearly a century have been USA dominated, so at least a superficial familiarity is to be expected.

I'm a born USA-ian with the curiosity to ask persons visiting my homeland, "you've probably had the USA presented to you in mass media for most of a lifetime,

. Since you have been here, what surprised you the most, good or bad, about this country?" Interesting responses, all.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

"Since you have been here, what surprised you the most, good or bad, about this country?" Interesting responses, all"

I'm UK but have visited the US many times over the years. An experience I had once that surprised and entertained me in equally positive and negative measures was from a police officer I got chatting to whilst in a queue for coffee.

He knew I and my colleagues were Brits so offered to show us the armoury in his patrol car out in the car park. It was a fun 10 minutes and the officer was clearing enjoying showing off (he knew the UK and knew that this sort of firepower for police was a novelty to us).

It did reinforce a lot of stereotypical gun culture opinions that I already had about the US. I was quite appalled that this car full of so much weaponry (hand guns, semi automatics - in easy reach of the front seats for shooting without getting out, grenade launchers etc.) was left unattended in an urban coffee shop car park. Equally appalled at his shoot first and ask questions later attitude.

When talking to individual people (including this police officer and plenty of US people I have worked alongside) I have always found Americans to be genuinely interested in the UK and curious about Brit lifestyle. It totally belies the arrogant and aggressive image of the US portrayed in Hollywood, the media and the current presidency.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

I can confirm that. The people are nice, at least all those US I ever had real life contact with. There is some US stuff we Germans should take over, like the more encouraging thinking if someone want to try something new. Or that toilets are always free. And tap water in restaurants too, without a strange look when you ask for it.

[veti]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Unfortunately, gun violence is a huge problem in many Caribbean countries.

If you look at civilian firearms deaths per 100,000 population, the top three countries currently are Jamaica, St Lucia and the Bahamas, in that order - all of them way, way ahead of the US. Barbados and Antigua & Barbuda are also in the top 10. No prizes of course for guessing where most of the guns are smuggled from.

[Martin an gof]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

And because it's always a good idea to back up assertions with some kind of evidence,

Wikipedia has patchy data and only up to 2022 but 2022 and 2021 do not have data for the US. Their 2020 figures place the US 21st.

Our World in data claims fairly comprehensive 2023 data and places the US 23rd.

World Population Review is thoroughly confused about whether its data is from 2019, 2023 (most likely) or 2025 (impossible), but places the US sixth (seem to be some smaller countries missing).

Notable that none of the surveys have data for huge chunks of Africa, Russia, some of the middle East, much of the East, the Indo-Pacific islands...

The figure for the US seems mostly to be between 3.5 and 4.5 per 100,000 which isn't high compared with the very highest on the lists, but is vastly higher than pretty much all other "Western" countries. I don't have time to look through all the numbers at the moment, but the next highest below the US seem to be Australia and New Zealand which seem to hover around 0.2 per 100,000; that's one twentieth the rate of the US. Most of Europe is even less than that, with the UK, for example being around 0.05; that's one eightieth of the rate in the US.

Or to put it another way, because there is always a way to make you catch your breath, a city the size of Birmingham (UK) with a population of around a million would expect to see around forty gun deaths every year in the US instead of the one gun death every two years implied by the UK average. Small cities such as Cambridge or Oxford (both around 120,000 I believe) would expect to see maybe five gun deaths per year, each. Ridiculous.

M.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Probably better to look up murder rates rather than gun death rates since murders don't all use guns and many countries don't have the gun ownership levels of the US. In the UK, for example, many murders are knife related, which brings the UK figure up from the 0.05 for firearm deaths. This Wikipedia page for "intentional" death includes suicides, but seem to give one of the better rankings and is an interesting read.

This page at Our World Data also shows a ranked + rate of change for all countries and regions, again, makes for interesting reading if quite limited in the data they show,

Neither link is especially helpful in the age of the data and/or coverage, but it brings the UK up to quite a bit more than the 0.005 above, Wikipedia undated rate being 8.1 and the other link showing 1.3 for 1990 and the graph generally trending downwards. The US shows a 1990 rate of 9.3 dropping significantly to 5.8 (still too high!) over the last 30 years.

It was eye opening to see the murder rate in the US Virgin Islands. So I scrolled down to find the British Virgin Islands. The difference is shocking!!

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Jamaica was the one I had in mind, although my knowledge of how much its reputation for general gun violence is still true and how much that extends to their police specifically wasn't good enough to make fair assumptions or single them out as an example, so I didn't.

[Alistair]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

I'm going to be honest, as far as MY experience goes, other than USA and certain parts of Mexico, the Officers of the Law that are armed *typically* have to file paperwork with the authorities when they so much as *draw* a firearm, and paperwork is anathema to the vast majority of cops. I know at least 5 here in Canuckistan, covering 3 different forces.

[Xalran]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Here in the Land of the Frogs, it's along the same line... but also worse.

Sure end up with a massive amount of paperwork if they draw their gun.

If they even start waving it towards somebody, it leads to even more paperwork... and if they end up having to actually shoot (warning shoots at first) it's more paperwork... and a routine investigation from the police des police to check if the warning shoots was an appropriate reaction... And if they have the (bad) luck to actually hit their intended target, they end up with an Everest of paperwork, a judiciary investigation and an extensive police des police one... Basically in the Land of the Frogs cops use their guns as the last resort after they have been shoot at or have been threatened enough.

(there's exceptions to the rule... when you're looking for a terrorist that bombed a RER that's hiding in the hills near St Etienne, since you're a Gendarme and not a cop, you have military ROE... and if the Hierarchy order you to shoot first and ask questions later when you find him, you execute the order. You know the amount of paperwork will small and nobody will bother you.)

[andy the pessimist]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

The French police may not shoot people but they can be very violent.

[DropBear]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

...especially towards aliens. Louis de Funès taught me that!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

In my experience, most cops do the bare minimum to stay qualified with firearms, assuming they have to stay qualified at all. The net result is unlike on TV where TV cops make a precision shot from 100 yards with a snubnose, in reality, most US cops can't hit the broadside of a barn. That's why it's not uncommon to read where cops fired some huge number of shots and the suspect only got wounded, if they got hit at all.

[Fred Daggy]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Knew someone that was a cop. I was told, it was best to fail the shooting practice, or at best, barely pass. Never ever show yourself to be accurate.

Why? Because if the suspect/victim survives/victims survivors then sues, then cop then can fall back on the "it was an accident", "I'm not that accurate" excuse.

If the cop was shown to be an accurate shot, then a whole 'nother can of worms was opened up.

[David Nash]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

So someone who barely passes or fails the shooting is allowed on the street with a loaded gun. And if someone is shot they are going to sue?

If the shot was justified they shouldn't have anything to fear from being sued. If they do, then don't start shooting people!

[collinsl]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Unfortunately one of the outcomes of a large or lengthy lawsuit in the USA is usually financial ruin for BOTH sides because of lawyer's fees. It's incredibly costly to be sued, and if your personal insurance won't cover the entire cost, you could end up paying thousands to defend yourself, even if the accusations are totally unfounded. Getting costs awarded from the other side is also usually difficult, however as with everything in the USA this varies state by state.

[CA Dave]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

So basically you're saying the average grunt cop is really just a Stormtrooper.

[LBJsPNS]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Just sorting that out now, are we?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Not to defend american cops too much but pistol shooting is a perishable skill at the best of times, much less when you're jamming on the trigger in a panic to keep the other guy from harming you first.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Me too! And that this story is told in a "nothing weird going on here, as you can see, just boring everyday" way makes it more frightening.....

[chivo243]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

I once had a close call. I was 19* and was the manager of a fast food joint. I had been there a while, and had gotten a better offer from a mom and pop joint. My last night of work was celebrated, some of my older colleagues brought a few bottles of beer, really 3 or 4, and to keep them cool, I put the in the walk in cooler. During all the farewells, I forgot two things at closing time, one was the last bottle of beer in the walk in cooler. The other was I left the water on to fill the steam table on just a trickle as I had a lot of things to do. I locked up, dropped the deposits at the night slot at the bank and headed home. As I lay there in bed the realization hit me that I forgot the beer in the walk in! I jumped up grabbed any clothes I could find, and headed back to the restaurant. I ran in and got the beer, but the label had become slippery and I dropped the beer bottle in the tiled walk in cooler! Cue frantic cleaning, sweeping, mopping etc, but I still couldn't get the smell out. I then looked over my shoulder at the nearly overflowing steam table, and my heart drops another foot. 10 minutes later, I've done all I can and exit the building and lock up again. Just as I get to my car, two cop cars roar into the lot and block me in.

The interrogation begins, and I stupidly let slip it's my last day, and I forgot to shut off the water to the steam table, and brows furrow and I have the bright idea to call my supervisor, he lived with in walking distance. They make the call, and he shows up in about 15 minutes, they enter the restaurant and see the steam table full to the brim, and that backs my story, and we all calm down and go away.

*This was 1983, no security systems to disarm, no cameras, and I was trusted to work my last night and return the keys to the joint the following day. And the cops didn't have full tactical gear or weapons drawn when they arrived, it was 1983.

[JWLong]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

I grew up in Toledo Ohio in the sixties and every cop showed up with their guns drawn.

Went to Vietnam, looked around and thought "this is just like home".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

Go back to reddit.

[Sp1z]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

That's awfully high and mighty from someone that's too much of a pussy to reveal their username

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

All usernames are lies anyway.

[david 12]

Re: Land of the Free - to be shot

You wish. The officer who arrested me had already broken the tooth of the security guard who turned up to unlock the building. First person he saw that was out of uniform, so he just hit him.

[Michael H.F. Wilkinson]

That kind of danger ...

is definitely beyond my pay grade

[I could be a dog really]

Re: That kind of danger ...

Which danger - the working in the office building late at night during a hurricane, or the cops turning up ?

If it's working in the office, I suspect that might even have been safer than being at home - it all depends on the designs, but not that many homes would be safe to be in if they got in the way of the hurricane. Some commercial building are built to better standards, and potentially you could be higher up away from a lot of the larger debris flying around. But many variables ...

[Martin Gregorie]

Re: That kind of danger ...

I've been deeply unimpressed by the housing standards in some parts of the USA.

Mid-town Manhattan was OK, but given that 3rd Ave and East 59th was, and still is, a block of brownstones, you'd expect that.

A block of flats I visited in Seattle was quite a shocker: unpainted asbestos external cladding with no impervious liner or insulation inside the external walls. Fortunately Seattle seems to be fairly well protected from strong winds.

The beach house I stayed in at Kitty Hawk during the First Flight celebrations in 2004 was a little better built and insulated, but still seemed unlikely to survive a decent hurricane.

[Dave314159ggggdffsdds]

Re: That kind of danger ...

The US seems to have heard the story of the three little pigs, but misunderstood it somewhat: they build their houses out of sticks and straw, and own guns to shoot the Big Bad Wolf. Unfortunately they can't shoot the hurricanes that huff and puff and blow their houses down.

[TimMaher]

Re: Three little pigs.

Check this fortnights Private Eye.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

I remember reading a blog from a systems admin team during Hurricane Katrina. Truly scary stuff, especially the tale of moving a couple of barrels of fuel for the generator from the car park to the roof with heavily armed gangs of looters roaming the city...

[I could be a dog really]

Yes, I remember that one - the (main) fuel tanks in the basement (sensible place), but the pumps up to the ready-use tanks by the gen sets not powered from the gen set. Oops.

[mhoulden]

It's archived on this very organ: https://www.theregister.com/2015/07/12/surviving_hurricane_katrina/

I remember when it was originally posted. After it was all over they told him to go and get some sleep.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Ou thank you for that one! That was before I discovered TheRegister. Something nice to read for the weekend (local time is 22:15...)

[collinsl]

I don't think that's the one OP was referring to, I think it was this one:

https://interdictor.livejournal.com/2005/08/27/

Michael "The Interdictor" Barnett rides out Katrina in the New Orleans datacenter of DirectNic in a day by day blog account.

[Korev]

It's lucky they didn't need to troubleshoot the problem

[lglethal]

In the US, the Police shoot the trouble - that's the Problem...

[jake]

Just remember, you don't hear about the vast majority of police calls, just the abnormal ones. That's what makes them "news". Try reading the police blotter from a randomly chosen US city. You'll probably be bored to tears. I know cops who have retired after decades of police work without ever drawing their gun. You never hear about this kind of thing on the "news", but it's more normal than not.

[Dave314159ggggdffsdds]

The stats suggest that on average about half the cops in the US will shoot at someone in their career. Of course the mean isn't entirely helpful, because depending on where they work, some will be much more likely to never shoot anyone, and some will shoot several people (each). There are roughly 0.2% as many fatal shootings per year as the number of police, so over a 40 year career about 1 in 10-12 police will kill someone. Since it is heavily skewed towards cops in cities doing the shootings, it suggests the actual rate for those in cities is as high as 1 in 3-4 _killing people_ on the job.

Don't try to normalise that. It's _insane_.

[hittitezombie]

More likely, once a cop starts killing and gets away with it, he will continue doing so.

[david 12]

1.3 million cops. 1300 deaths per year. 1 shooting per 1000 cops every year: 40 shootings per 1000 cops every 40 years. The stats suggest that on average, 4 cops in 100 will shoot someone over their career.

If there are 46 "shooting at" incidents for every death, that suggests "shooting at" is not a meaningful statistic.

[veti]

Hmmm. First you seem to conflate "deaths" with "shootings", then you conclude that "shooting at" - doesn't count, or something? Really don't see what point you're trying to make here.

[The man with a spanner]

1.3 m cops . . . Is that 1.3m field officers or does that include all the desk jobs?

[Dave314159ggggdffsdds]

1.3 million cops? Why lie. There are <700k. So that's actually about 8 kills per 100, or, as I said, 1 in 10-12.

[phuzz]

US cops kill people at a rate of 33 per million population. In the UK it's 0.5/M. (src)

[jj_0]

I'm surprised US cops are able to kill people in the UK at all!

[DJV]

Don't give them ideas!

[DCX001]

seriously under-rated comment

[KittenHuffer]

Nah, it's only diplomats wives that are allowed to do that!

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK they're only allowed to run over people.

[Dave314159ggggdffsdds]

Yes, and you don't need any special status to get away with mowing down cyclists.

[The man with a spanner]

Looking at the cops kill rate 33/m. The US is just fractionaly better than Columbia and Angola!

That is frankly shocking and should be a source of shame for a country that claims to be civilised and governed by the rule of law.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. And that's why a school shooting that kills 3-4 students is barely newsworthy. It's become "normal"

Savage incidents getting drowned out by swathes of tedious activities doesn't make them any less savage.

Oh and the vast majority of police officers I know have never drawn a gun (on duty or not)

[hittitezombie]

Would you like to add wounded by police but not dead to the stats? The numbers are just nuts when compared to anywhere civilized.

[The man with a spanner]

Unfortunatly for the US the PR dept (hollywood) presents to the world a picture of the police responding to any incident or need to arrest by charging out of the cop shop, driving dangerously down the street (with no reason), leaping out or their ve-hic-les guns drawn and making the arrest in a hale of bullets regardless of the risk to life of the inocent bystander.

It is often the case that the arrest could have been made by simply knocking at the door rather than knocking it down.

[David Hicklin]

> eaping out or their ve-hic-les guns drawn and making the arrest in a hale of bullets regardless of the risk to life of the inocent bystander

In Hollywood they also tend to be crap shots and everyone almost always misses !

[Peter Gathercole]

And car doors stop bullets!

[Not Yb]

The "police blotter" is only those things the police deem OK to release to the press. Of course it won't include "police drew weapons on an innocent person" type things. The things that are MORE newsworthy get full articles, and generally are left out of the police blotter because it's unnecessary duplication. That's why it's boring, it's the nature of press releases and editing.

[Doctor Syntax]

Policemen also get shot. That includes two of my acquaintance in N Ireland. One had been a SOCO so I'd taken part in his training and then encountered many times after that, the other I'd only spoken with by phone in a couple of cases.

[that one in the corner]

Everyone got a good chuckle

Gales of laughter swept over them.

[jake]

Other side of the coin.

Mid-April of 1986 I was sent to the top of Mount ::mumble:: here in Northern California, to find out what went wrong with a microwave repeater. I didn't have emergency keys to the gates in that county, and didn't want to be caught picking the lock, so my Boss called the local sheriff's office and asked someone to be sent around to open the gate. After a little fiddly-farting around to verify that I was legit, we agreed to a time and place to let me onto the mountain's road system (fire trails, mostly).

Promptly at 8AM, a guy from the Forrest Service arrived at the gate and opened it for me. He gave me a map of the driveable roads with my route marked, and a key so I could let myself out when I was done. He allowed as to how I could keep the key just in case, and that there was still snow near the top, but my truck should be able to handle what little was still covering the roads in shady corners, and did I have food and water for a couple days, just in case? I told him this wasn't my first rodeo, not only did I have provisions, but I also had a good radio, blankets, a change of clothes, and was otherwise prepared to rough it for a couple days if needed.

"How about a gun?" he asked ... seems there was a momma bear and two newborn cubs up there, if I saw her leave her alone and kindly give him a call, they needed to trank them, get their vitals, vaccinate them for whatever they vaccinate bears for, and tag the cubs. The gun was just in case something nasty happened. I told him I had my Kimber[0], not that I fancied my chances against an angry mother with cubs, when I was only armed with a 1911 in 45ACP. He laughed and said try not to hit her, just make noise. California's black bears are fairly timid. Except mommas with cubs.

So off I went. I got up to the top without incident ... and discovered the chainlink fence surrounding the site's gate had been torn off it's hinges ... and the building had similarly had it's door wrecked. There was freshish bear shit[1] in a couple places. This sent my hackles up, but I was there so I might as well get on with it. I reved the motor, and honked the horn. Nothing. So I got out, 1911 on hip, Nothing. I intentionally made a racket widening the opening in the fence so I could drive in. Right up to the door, where I again reved the engine and leaned on the horn. More nothing. There was room, so I paralleled the door, and slowly drove back and forth, scanning the interior. Even more nothing ... but more bear shit, this time just inside the door.

I drove around to the other side of the building, parked where I could see the gate, and turned off the engine. I was hoping momma (if she was, in fact in there) would lead her cubs off into the trees after a few minutes of silence. Still nothing. So I broke out the 1911, filled all five clips, loaded one up, and emptied it into the ground between me and the shed. Which drew a response. BIG bellow from inside, and momma bolted for the gate, followed by two round balls of fur. I never saw them again.

I had to pick up a rack and restore power to it, nothing needed replacing. I suspect one of the always-curious cubs had climbed the thing and brought it down, pulling the safety cable's bolt out of the wall. The repeater was up and running in about half an hour. Then, as a courtesy to the next guy, I shoveled out the shit. Jammed the door back into the opening, hung the gate back up and welded both closed (the truck had a big Miller welder mounted in the back). Took several Polaroids along the way so whoever was tasked with doing the permanent repair wouldn't be going in blind (this was in the halcyon days before ubiquitous cell phones with cameras ... I had my DynaTAC with me, but there was no service up there as yet).

They did find and tag the bear family a couple weeks later. We have no idea why they broke in, there was no sign of them turning it into a den, nor had anybody left food in it. Perhaps momma was teaching the babies some of the finer points of ursine kleptomania ...

_{[0] Illegal pot farmers infested those woods and tended to shoot first and ask questions later. Yes, I know how and when to use guns. I avoid it. Easier.}

_{[1] Yes, kiddies. Bears do, indeed, shit in the woods.}

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Other side of the coin.

If only your way of thinking and handling guns would be the norm over there...

[jake]

Re: Other side of the coin.

My way of thinking IS the norm over here.

Try thinking for yourself instead of listening to Dear Old Telly. There are approximately 135,000,000 households with guns here in the United States. If even a tenth of them thought about guns the way you think we do, most of us would be dead before the year was out. In fact, if even 1% of them thought that way, nobody would ever leave the house. Ever.

This clearly isn't happening, so equally clearly somewhere under 1% think the way you think we do.

Remember, Dear Old Telly lies, even if only by omission. ALL they report is unusual activity, not normalcy. Normalcy doesn't sell advertising ... but hyping loonies certainly does.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Other side of the coin.

Aaaand you lost your marbles. You started good, but well...

US Parents today don't let their kids out due to the general danger. Not only guns, kidnappings are the norm too, anti-bike and anti-pedestrian environment generally and so on. Those same exact parents, once moved to EU (Spain, Germany, France, UK etc...) get a culture shock how "uncaring" we are here to let the kids roam around for hours without really knowing where they are, what they do (which was the norm in the US too 'round the 1970s). Not even tracking them! And after a few month they adjusted to that freedom here. My source: US people actually living outside US, and non-US actually living inside US, just listen to what they say from real world comparison. And they say US is not that bad, but a few BIG things are totally out of whack where the prejudice 100% applies.

On the topic: US mass shooting tracker, which ONLY includes those which have AT LEAST four or more injured or killed: https://www.massshootingtracker.site/ - on average 1 mass shooting per day, in some years two since the "our election was stolen" fans ran more havoc.

US K21 database, which tracks all shootings on school ground: https://k12ssdb.org/all-shootings , was "two school shootings each week" currently alternating "every day or every second day". Parents giving their primary school children bulletproof backpacks should not be the norm. And the "cops in school" solution is applied more as oppression of pupils than actual protection. My suggestion for that: Start with a one mile radius of absolutely NO GUN zone around every educational institution - no exception, not even "stored in safe place". Only police force are allowed to be with a firearm in that zone. Extend to five miles after ten years.

And you come along with a "1% of them are wacko" yeah, but look at the absolute numbers. 1% of "people who own guns" in the US is a high number, compared to "people who own guns" in EU.

> Remember, Dear Old Telly lies

Well, World War 2 winners (France Britain and US) enforced a few rules on "old telly" in Germany. Which I am still grateful for when seeing the US-Telly and the "news" there in comparison, which is exactly as bad as you describe. Even the US-neutral-mid-spectrum Tellies have an agenda and are, compared to here, far from neutral.

[JWLong]

Re: Other side of the coin.

So, does a bear shit in the woods?

/s

[MrReynolds2U]

Re: Other side of the coin.

Only if they can't find a good comms room.

[Stratman]

Way back when a prince was marrying his blushing bride at St. Paul's Cathedral, our OB truck was to provide the main coverage. Come the morning of the big day we had an 'everybody must attend' safety briefing. Our truck was parked on the far corner of a grass square, diagonally opposite the side door which was our way in. For the few days before we had been taking the direct route across the grass rather than the path round two sides of the rectangle. "On no account must you walk across the grass to go in to the cathedral," said the scary man doing the briefing. He explained that's what terrorists would do, take the direct route. "Anybody who steps off the path will be shot."

On a similar vein, Trooping the Colour during Northern Ireland 'troubles' brought similar arrangements. One summer little Stevie was given the job of getting the sound of the Queen's arrival at Horse Guards. "Right, so there are police snipers on those roofs and you want me to point this at the Queen? Okay." 'This' was a Sennheiser 816 gun mike in a Rycote windshield (non furry variety) with pistol grip.

[KittenHuffer]

Hell! That's more than my life is worth!

[segfault188]

Never drawn a gun

Most cops in the US have never drawn a gun. They find it easier to colour in one that someone else has drawn.

[NXM]

Re: Never drawn a gun

Majestic. Thank you.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Never drawn a gun

Pleas help me on "colour in one". I can guess what it means, but being separated by bodys of water from both major English speaking countries I'd like a slang confirmation here... Search engines don't help, they have too much AI now...

[Caver_Dave]

Re: "Colour one in"

A coloring book version would do.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Never drawn a gun

Imagine somebody has drawn a picture of a gun. If you take a coloured pencil to fill the shape with colour, that's "colouring in the drawing". English is the language of the pun, in this case based on two meanings of "draw" and a dig at the intelligence of cops.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Never drawn a gun

"Imagine somebody has drawn a picture of a gun. If you take a coloured pencil to fill the shape with colour, that's "colouring in the drawing"."

It's the same phrasing in the US. Most stop "coloring drawings in" sometime around 7yo so the phrase atrophies due to lack of use. One of my favorites was the giant intricate wall posters that took a good week to color in. Amazing what memories are still maintained in the archives.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Never drawn a gun

OP (Jou) isn't a native English speaker.

[Wrenewable]

Re: Never drawn a gun

They are making a joke changing the meaning of drawn a gun meaning pull out a weapon vs drawing a picture of a gun with a pencil, and the reveal of colouring one in completes the joke by making the change of meaning clear

I.e. they are too stupid to draw a picture of a gun, but can only use coloured pens to paint the colours on an existing drawing, as a very young child might

[ArguablyShrugs]

Re: Never drawn a gun

Some of them might eat the crayons first.

[MrReynolds2U]

Re: Never drawn a gun

Not if the marketing department gets there first

[LoPath]

Re: Never drawn a gun

Leave the Marines out of this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Department of Works

I've got my 27b/6 right here!

[PRR]

> "....it was far from certain it would be possible to refuel the generator,"

Wise thought. When the WWW was young and school payroll was still on punchcards, my mid-Atlantic state got a "once in a century" snowstorm" (I think the third that decade). There was 2 day supply in the tanks because "we can always order more". The state was not prepared for so much snow on the roads, snowplow fuel was priority, then heating fuel for hospitals, warming centers, and homes down to their last pint of heating oil. (Diesel and heating oil are nearly interchangeable, especially when you don't have either.)

Non-essential staff stayed home for 6 days. I followed the IT staff news as the fuel ran down, no truck could/would come, and finally most of the school's web-presence went dead. They got a part-delivery finally, and that ran for a day and ran dry. Natch some of the servers did not come-up on the 1st or 2nd power-loss.

I at home was getting antsy because my home still heated with oil in an underground tank (no fuel gauge) under an enormous Holly tree; it was not certain we could find the filler in the deep snow.

In the aftermath the school totally replaced the data-center power system. When they cut-over, the substation smoked. It was weeks of temporary feeds and hunts for specialized breakers before that worked again. (Nobody surprised because Deferred Maintenance was the policy throughout the school; but this was the first extended demonstration of how data-dependent we had gotten.)

It was too cold for beer but there were some shots poured afterward.

[Anonymous Coward]

How deft you are with your last sentence, combining the two major threads from above, weather and guns.

[vroomfondle]

Paramedics?

"The alarm system's emergency battery had gone bad and started sending spurious calls for paramedics"

I'm confused. Paramedics? Why did an alarm system call out the paramedics? Or is it just standard procedure in the US for the paramedics to come out anyway just in case someone's been shot?

[Vincent Ballard]

Re: Paramedics?

Given the police response, it probably should be.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Paramedics?

"I'm confused. Paramedics? Why did an alarm system call out the paramedics?"

Like many countries, the system would call 911 (999) since there isn't a separate number for police, fire or paramedics. It would have to be the alarm company that had a separate button and would then need to call emergency services from there to report a specific need. Multiple emergency calls in a short time with nobody on the line might mean people under serious threat that can't talk or they might give away a hiding place. Somebody heard running towards police inside a building could be a cause for an officer's concern if they've been dispatched to a call that's had a bunch of non-responsive call-ins.The filth also have the bad practice of all of them shouting at the same time which can sound like a take-over robbery with doors being crashed in. If they designate one officer as the 'shouter', they might be understood. In the aftermath of a hurricane, there will be a lot of looting so walking in on a burglary/robbery in progress is going to be a higher risk.

[KarMann]

Re: Paramedics?

My wondering was close, but more along the lines of, if it was a paramedic call, why would the police be showing up with a shooot-first-ask-questions-later frame of mind? That seems even wronger than usual if it's expected to be a medical emergency response.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Paramedics?

"That seems even wronger than usual if it's expected to be a medical emergency response."

From the tale, it was an automated system that was sounding an alarm so no real way to know if the call was for a medical emergency. More details would be needed to clarify. A person that's been shot/stabbed/clubbed is a medical emergency. If a human called an emergency number and told a dispatcher that somebody fell down stairs, the expectation would be that only medical services would be needed unless the person would need to be extracted from a difficult place to get to by two people with a stretcher.

Fire alarms are often a separate message. An alarm company that gets a system reporting a fire (heat, sprinklers set off, pull-box) can notify emergency services that they are receiving indications of a fire. Police would be dispatched to shut down roads and cordon off the area for the fire brigade to do their work. They'd know they are being dispatched to a fire. Going in blind, officers will want to be on their guard.

[ptribble]

Sandy

We had an east coast datacenter in the path of Hurricane Sandy.

Manglement were quite keen to keep it running, as we had an important contract. (The "see inside" feature for books on a certain major online retailer was served from there, although it got relocated very shortly afterwards.)

We had enough diesel for about 24 hours. We sent extra staff over, so we had someone on his Harley riding around local gas stations, depots, whatever might have fuel trying to get more diesel to keep us going a bit longer. Not a drop. After a while the local law enforcement caught up with him and rather strongly suggested that the curfew that was in force ought to be obeyed. That service was offline for days.

[CA_Diver]

Southern California

I've had two memorable encounters with law enforcement while on the job.

1. Leaving a customer's site shortly after last call, the timing just worked out. This customer was in a gentrifying area. Office building but with a less than reputable hotel next door. The sort of place that rented rooms by the hour and had pharmaceuticals available in the stairwell. I chained the parking lot and drove toward the freeway, when just before the ramp I was pulled over. The cutest little blonde deputy, probably just made the height cut off, started to question me and wanted to know what I'd been doing at the hotel. I debated asking her to handcuff and frisk me, but at 2:00 am I just wanted to go home and sleep. Explained where I'd been working, and gave her permission to check the car. Yes, that's a 70 pound disk drive, that's a tool bag. Yes I work until 2:00 am when a server's down, travel time is billable.

2. We had someone give notice and leave the week before a project was supposed to deploy and I had approval to clock overtime. There's an air show going on down the road at the local military field, but back roads get me to work. As I pull in to park that Saturday morning, a police cruiser pulled up behind me. I started to get out and as I turned, another cruiser was stationed between buildings behind me, and a third cruiser was going to the far parking lot exit. Okay something interesting here. I'm carrying a heavy leather case of paperwork (customer specs) a cooler with cold drinks, and paper bag of snacks. One officer starts walking toward me from the near car, while the second posts himself behind the car. Setting everything down on the pavement, I wave, open handed, of course, and ask if I can answer any questions. Turns out the air show tripped the silent alarm, "office under duress" and local police were responding. I opened the office, gave alarm company the all clear code, and let police have a look around. the empty office.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Southern California

Also in Southern California, working in an airport terminal building overnight, airside. I'd only been with the company a matter of weeks, work hadn't issued me with any kind of ID badge, and I was working under escort of a colleague who had an airside badge.

After several problematic software upgrades on a new system, we were walking from one end of the terminal to the other, logging all the computers at the gates back in and checking everything came back up OK.

It was about 3am, and the only people near us in the building were the carpet cleaners - or so we thought. My colleague and I were "leap-frogging" each other from one gate to the next, and all the gates were in sight of each other. Except two that had a Starbucks blocking line of sight between. I leapfrogged my colleague past the Starbucks without even thinking, and started work on the next gate's computers.

"Freeze!"

The sheriff had shown up, clocked a random bloke (me) in a suit, airside, messing with computers in a closed airport terminal, at 3am, with no visible ID whatsoever, and - thanks to Starbucks, no visible airside escort.

Gun pointed straight at me. Absolutely shat myself, stepped back from the computers with my hands in the air shaking like a leaf. And took a hell of a lot of explaining and grovelling when my airside escort heard the commotion and came jogging round the corner past Starbucks.

Managed to convince the sheriff to let me off with a warning, but it was touch and go given all I had to prove who I was was my UK passport, some business cards, and a Blackberry which included some emails from my airside escort with the company signature on it.

Never made that mistake again!

[jake]

Northern California (was: Re: Southern California)

Haven't posted this one in a year or so ...

Many moons ago, maybe 1983, bright and early one fine morning I was on the roof of the old Ford Aerospace Building One on Fabian in Palo Alto, trying to re-align a new laser network link to a building across Hwy 101. I got tackled by a couple largish MPs ... Seems that some military big-wigs were about to arrive to inspect one of our satellites (unlaunched, being built in the high-bay), and the two security guys heard someone talk about "jake's up on the roof with the laser, that should sort 'em out". Myself and the two talking about me were detained, taken to a small room & questioned. Seems the security detail wasn't all that versed in the power output of a 5mW HeNe laser, in their tiny little brains we were conspiring to roast the brass.

We had the last laugh. The laser link was part of the demo that the brass was there to observe. We were "rescued" from the grilling after about an hour, and allowed to get on with it. The security guys got a very public dressing-down from a rather technologically cluefull Colonel (in full dress, but sans tie or other neckware ... which is a whole 'nuther story) for wasting his time ... After we concluded the demo, the Colonel sent the security guys to get pizza for lunch and sat & ate with us, discussing the ins & outs of "modern" wireless (laser) networking.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Southern California

"Managed to convince the sheriff to let me off with a warning,"

So, it was your fault for doing your job without company issued ID and the Sheriff thinks you should have refused to attend site until the ID badge was given to you? I'm not sure the Sheriff understood the situation if he "let you off" with a warning.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Southern California

"you should have refused to attend site until the ID badge was given to you?"

People often need to learn that sort of thing over time. If you are new in a job or a bit nervous about making any demands at work, you go where/when assigned. Some cultures have a strong taboo over questioning one's boss about anything. They say, you do. Even if they know the instruction is incorrect, they do as the boss says and make a right mess of things, not through malicious compliance, but a lifetime of training. I've seen this crop of a bunch of times with companies doing business overseas or when hiring immigrants that come from those cultures. They have to be taught to speak up if they think they've been given bad instructions. Of course as an employee, you should phrase your question politely. Starting off with "Jane, you ignorant slut" or "Dan, you pompous ass" won't endear you to management.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Southern California

The company (bizarrely) didn't issue ID to anyone at the time - only people who worked at airports almost full-time had airside passes and they were airport-issued, not company issued. Everyone else just got escorted per the airport-specific rules.

I was in my probation period, my boss told me to get my arse to site, so I did. How we were working was completely within the rules and legal until I stepped a few yards into a position such that my airside escort couldn't see me any more. We were working 16+ hour days, I was jet-lagged, it was a simple lapse of protocol.

The Sheriff eventually believed it was an honest mistake, could tell I'd learned an important lesson, and let me off the violation. If it had been in the middle of the day, nobody would even have known, as the terminal is full of people in suits without ID badges on...

[MachDiamond]

Re: Southern California

"The sheriff had shown up, clocked a random bloke (me) in a suit, airside, messing with computers in a closed airport terminal, at 3am, with no visible ID whatsoever, and - thanks to Starbucks, no visible airside escort."

Now you know to have some sort of badge worn in the prescribed manner (some places forbid wearing them at waist level). The situation goes from you having no badge to an issue of whether you have the correct badge which can be less of a concern since a deputy can't go around pointing his gun at everybody working the late shift. It would help if your badge was something from your company even if it wasn't sufficient for being where you were (airport-airside).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Southern California

I reported the incident to our management - and pointed out it would have been really REALLY helpful to have some formal Company-issued ID.

Fast-forward a few months, they started issuing ID badges to everyone.

[Excused Boots]

Re: Southern California

So it only took them a few months to sort out the obvious issue?

[MachDiamond]

Re: Southern California

"So it only took them a few months to sort out the obvious issue?"

That's warp speed for a large company. Think of all of the meetings that would have to occur. A bunch to decide badges would be a good idea and then at least a month to settle on a design. A week or so to locate a vendor and another few weeks to craft the verbiage that will go into the employee manual about how to wear them, the return requirement upon departure, etc.

[Stuart Castle]

Not IT related, but I was in Vegas for a wedding in 2006. I had a great time, until I got to the airport. I was just going through security and put my handluggage on the conveyor. The guard was quite polite, and chatty, apart from asking all the normal questions (did you pack your bag etc).

All of a sudden, he stopped, so I went to pick up by bag. All of a sudden, he unclipped his gun, getting his hand into position to use it, and said "Sir, please step away from the bag".

Not surprisingly, I almost crapped myself. As far as I knew, all that was in my back was some washing stuff, a change of underwear and my iPod. All of this was allowed at the time.

Thankfully, the problem was resolved quickly. My friend was a smoker, and he'd accidenally dropped a rather large cigarette lighter in my handluggage that they had detected. When he saw it, the guard/agent was happy with my explanation, but would not allow me to take the lighter on board. I didn't mind this. I don't smoke and, TBH, my friend should have packed the lighter in his luggage.