Doesn't Thailand jail critics of the monarch?
Visiting students can't hide social media accounts from Uncle Sam anymore
The US State Department last week said foreign nationals seeking to study in the US must make their social media profiles public, prompting some students to delete their social media posts. "Every visa adjudication is a national security decision," the State Department said, adding that under the new guidance, the online …
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Thursday 26th June 2025 10:40 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: No.
"Really? So far people have tried to get Chump twice, and failed both times."
The second amendment while construed as to give every American the right to bear arms doesn't explicitly require those so bearing to be able to shoot straight.
At least in Ye Olde England the King's subjects were required to practise archery at the butts with their long bows every Sunday.
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Wednesday 25th June 2025 22:51 GMT dsch
"Nojeim said we should not worry about allowing people with different political views into the country, noting that the screening criteria in the State Department cable could be interpreted to deny US entry to people who criticize President Trump."
"Could be interpreted"? There was already that French scientist who was deported for criticising Trump's gutting of research funding in private messages. It's interesting to watch the American mainstream media talk about the "risk" of "sliding into" authoritarianism. Wake up, you're already living under an authoritarian regime.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 06:26 GMT Potemkine!
Because DHS is soooo credible.
And so was this French lawmaker ?
Wake up, the fascist state is coming in place in the US, a country I will be glad not to visit anymore. I don't travel in autocracies.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 08:54 GMT breakfast
See also the Norwegian who was barred entry to the US because he had a meme of bald JD Vance on his phone.
The meme is very funny and since the incident it has been all over the news in much of Europe, so at least there's that.
It will be interesting how this affects tourism, which has historically been an important source of income for some parts of the country.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 09:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
If there's a kernel of truth to the (so far relatively quiet) stories in the media and on the 'net, then it's having quite an effect, booking numbers are down several percent already and it's expected to get worse because there will be people who booked prior to King Donald of Orange's regin began and can't cancel without significant financial penalty
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Thursday 26th June 2025 18:30 GMT flayman
Social media needs to be within one's control. The Register does not count as social media because the poster has no control over their posts after the first 10 minutes. You can only withdraw a comment so that it becomes private, but it's still there. If someone logged in as you, they would be able to see any comment you have ever made. So a visitor cannot be compelled to give details about their pseudo-anonymous El Reg accounts. The State Department might still be able to work it out if you're not careful. You can also delete your account, but I'm fairly certain the comments would remain under the guise of a deleted account.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 11:17 GMT codejunky
@The Central Scrutinizer
"Exactly, except for some stupid reason the media seems to be in total denial."
It isnt denial it is participation. Look at how willingly they pick and choose what to report and how the narrative changes only when the accepted narrative changes. As I have quoted before- “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”.
Add years of open borders with known terrorists entering the country, sanctuary cities and anti America officials vs heavy handed reactions like this. There is a lot of damage to undo in the US, they are still getting leaks from anonymous and untrusted of partial low confidence reports and spewing it as fact. That is not denial but outright mouthpiece.
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Wednesday 25th June 2025 23:18 GMT Tron
You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
The US is a place to avoid now, for students, tourists, business and investment.
US colleges, ones that haven't been taken down by Trump, may have, or can implement campuses for foreign students, outside the US, if they want to, to avoid subjecting young people to potential imprisonment by jackbooted border guards loyal to the orangenführer. Other colleges in other countries are available, but expect some to copy the US, also becoming places to avoid.
Lots of places were nice once, but now are not. It happens.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:14 GMT cornetman
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
> You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
It is pretty much a rite of passage for many students to get to college, think that the whole country is f*cked and demand it be turned into some kind of socialist "utopia", graduate, grow up, get a job, start to earn money then realise that they actually would quite like to keep their hard-earned cash, thank you very much.
Real life has that effect.
Yes, it has always been thus. What is different, now, is that the people supposedly in charge of these places don't have sufficient backbone to be the adults and they indulge their misguided fantasies. Which is how we got scenes of students kidnapping the staff and holding them hostage in their classrooms and such. Maximum cringe.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:24 GMT dsch
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
It's funny how whenever you hear someone start talking about "hard-earned cash" and "real life" and harping on about "growing up", you know it's going to be one of those "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" kind of conservatives, mostly likely on the way to being a "deport all the immigrants and/or put them in concentration camps" kind of conservative.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:29 GMT Jamie Jones
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
Yes. It's sad how they try to justify being selfish pricks.
As I got older and richer, if anything, I've gotten more socialist
Sure, I hate my taxes going to cheats and corruption, but that's generally greedy politicians rather than the deserved poor.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 01:07 GMT cornetman
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
> you know it's going to be one of those "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" kind of conservatives
And you would be wrong. I am a centre-left liberal. I believe in nationalised healthcare and a limited safety net in general. Just goes to show, you read a couple of sentences from someone, and you believe that you know everything about that person's beliefs. You are sorely mistaken.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 06:59 GMT kmorwath
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
So we should check for all the MAGA people at customes and refuse them to enter EU? Ban people like Vance forever?
Also, just look at the USAian crook who just killed a woman and their one year child in Rome... travelling using a passport with a false name generously given him by a state who doens't know who are its citizen because has a fully outdated, non wotking system,
I think we should do far deeper check about any USAian attempting to enter EU.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 19:07 GMT Excused Boots
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
"So we should check for all the MAGA people at customes and refuse them to enter EU? Ban people like Vance forever?”
I think the issue here is that for some (no, not all) MAGA people, they don’t accept the existence of anywhere outside of the ‘good ol’ USA so they won't be travelling there.
I know I have said this many times, but in my career, in the UK, I have met and engaged with many Americans, and one thing almost all of them have said (over a few beers) is ‘I am not a typical American, because I am not in America’! They are the exceptions that accept that the ‘rest of the world’ exists and are prepared to engage with it.
Frankly, any American who wants to visit Europe, fine, let them in; the instance you mentioned is an outlier; whatever protections you put in, there will always be an outlier. It doesn't mean we scrap the entire system, we don’t ban everyone ‘just in case’!
No, in the unlikely case of a full-blown MAGA person coming to Europe, fine, let them in, see how it can work; not perfect, nobody is saying that anything, including Europe is perfect, nothing is; but, it works, mostly. Maybe, just maybe, we change their mind about how this shit all works? Or at least makes them think a bit more.
This is simply going to restrict the number of people visiting the US or people thinking, ‘oh I better not visit the US just in case something I posted five years ago might...’,and spending money there; ultimately who loses out?
Anyhow, bottom line, I think the US are harming themselves with this policy, it doesn’t mean that Europe needs to do the same.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:40 GMT Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch
Re: You aren't much of a student if you don't criticise the government.
Maybe that was the case back in the 60s and 70s when there were professional jobs for graduates to go into and earn a reliable comfortable living for themselves and their families.
For anyone who has grown up under the kleptocracy that has been in place since the Reagan era, the whole country is f*cked and demanding it be turned into some kind of socialist "utopia" where billionaires and presidents don't feel inclined to buy entire islands so they can isolate themselves from the anger of the millions of people whose labour enabled them is the only way society will have any actual security, as opposed to the illusion of security the kleptocrats have been selling us unsuccessfully for decades.
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Wednesday 25th June 2025 23:23 GMT Michael Hoffmann
Why?
No, not "why is the new Imperial Order of the USA doing this", why are there still students trying to go there?
Do they watch any news? Universities under threat, funding slashed into oblivion, senior scientists being poached by other countries, anti-science sentiment to the top ranks of the government.
Yes, you spent *years* getting through that paperwork for get that exchange/research/postgrad program, when the US unis still led the way globally, never mind the humiliation you probably had to go through to get the visum. All that work for nothing!
But wake the fuck up!
It will also have been for nothing if you end up refused entry at best and disappeared at worst, because of some post on TikTok!
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Thursday 26th June 2025 01:18 GMT Wexford
Re: Why?
Yeah, we recently changed our travel plans and went to Mexico instead of the US. We still had to transit via LA, which was less terrible than I anticipated at least. But Mexico, wow! So many stereotypes in my head were crushed - I kept thinking I was in southern Europe at times. But I digress, the point being that we decided to avoid the US and it worked out very well for us.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:15 GMT VoiceOfTruth
Other religions?
>> "support for unlawful antisemitic harassment or violence."
Presumably support for anti Hindu or anti Muslim or anti Confucian or other religions is perfectly fine. Presumably posts in favour of bombing hospitals are OK, as long the 'right' people are being bombed.
All those people deleting their social media posts are deluded. The USA has already slurped it all. Private does not mean private from Uncle Sam. There is this little snippet which is interesting: "for not being active on social media". Well I know quite a few people who are not active. Typically they are much older, not tech savvy, and some of them don't have computers or smartphones. Try telling that to ICE.
This is barely the beginning. The USA under Trump, but not just him, is going down the shitter. The USA is infected with its "exceptionalism" mindset. It's just another version of the Übermensch, and we saw how that ideal was misused. When will people wake up? It won't be long before there are concentration camps in the USA for the 'wrong' people. The US constitution is not worth two cents and will not protect Americans. Given the hateful politics in the USA, neighbours will happily turn in each other.
But it's not just about Trump. Many US states ban books from school libraries. Land of the free, my arse.
It's a great shame. There is on paper a lot to like about the USA. But it's turning itself into something it used to complain about other countries.
Don't go to the USA, guys and girls. Don't sell out for dollars in your pocket.
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Friday 27th June 2025 18:51 GMT Jaybus
Re: Other religions?
Of course words can harm kiddos. Ask any professional counselor whether verbal bullying is linked to suicide rate of kiddos. Ellen Hopkins' descriptions of sadomasochistic abuse are certainly available on Amazon for those who wish their children to learn about that, but some of us choose not to have them in school libraries. I suspect once grown up that most will not feel that their 10 year old self missed out on this "essential knowledge".
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Thursday 26th June 2025 11:44 GMT Graham Cobb
Re: Other religions?
little kids go to school libraries
Yes. Little kids go to schools. There is no difference between the responsibility of deciding what and how to teach, and deciding what books to put in the school library. In both cases, it is the decision of the people who run the school. US states should stay out of both decisions and leave them to the schools.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 11:56 GMT codejunky
Re: Other religions?
@Graham Cobb
"Yes. Little kids go to schools. There is no difference between the responsibility of deciding what and how to teach, and deciding what books to put in the school library. In both cases, it is the decision of the people who run the school. US states should stay out of both decisions and leave them to the schools."
As US states are the equivalent of countries that are united under a federal structure that would be the same as demanding all countries in the EU to leave school decisions to the schools. I suppose government out of schools might stop some of the green madness being forced into teaching and some of the gender confusion stuff too.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 21:59 GMT Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch
Re: Other religions?
It would stop the teaching of evolution as science and creationism as religion. It would stop sex education that teaches any method other than abstinence for contraception, despite abstinence being demonstrably worse at preventing teenage pregnancy even than no sex education at all. It would facilitate some states' already implemented plans to teach that 81.2 million < 74.2 million, as in the 2020 Presidential Election. To the extent that the "green madness" is science, it would prevent the teaching of science.
"The people who run the schools" are frequently parochial bigoted morons. The schools are paid for by the state, and the state has an imperative role in making sure the students are educated, sometimes in direct contradiction to their parents' wishes. Education is the defence of the state (Benjamin Franklin). A state that prevents its citizens from thinking in the disguise of education is weakening itself, with consequences that are already obvious.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 11:46 GMT codejunky
Re: Other religions?
@cornetman
"Of course they do. WTF? You know that little kids go to school libraries right? Jeez. :O
The constitution of the US protects adults. We have a different standard for our kids and rightly so."
I dont quite understand how this has loads of downvotes, we dont put pornography on the bottom shelves for a reason. Look at the outcry for child safety online leading to all kinds of stupid proposals. Or banning certain food adverts from certain times of the day.
The idea of protecting your children shouldnt be some foreign concept.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 13:49 GMT Jamie Jones
Re: Other religions?
Well, it's not just school libraries, it's public libraries too.
https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/ed-magazine/23/11/book-bans-and-librarians-who-wont-be-hushed
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Thursday 26th June 2025 05:39 GMT Neil Barnes
Re: Other religions?
Typically they are much older, not tech savvy, and some of them don't have computers or smartphones.
Atypically, some of them are much older, very tech savvy, and own both computers and smartphones. They just don't feel the need to burden the world with the details of their daily lives, or prefer to reduce their interactions with the advertising/tracking industry, or maybe like messaging systems that deliver just what they want - email is a good example, with proper spam filtering. Or perhaps they lack the gene that requires them to be at the beck and call of continuous notifications by their phone?
I haven't visited the USA since 2001 or 2002, in spite of having relatives there; there was a time I considered emigration - there is an awful lot I enjoy and admire about both the country and the people - but these days? I'm not tempted.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 09:58 GMT may_i
Re: Other religions?
You described me perfectly!
I'm 60, very tech savvy, and own multiple computers and a smartphone. I haven't used any site described as "social media" in the last two decades. Needing to have my opinions reviewed and approved before I am allowed to visit a country is a perfectly valid reason to not visit such a country.
It's not like I'd ever contemplate visiting the USA again. That saddens me as I have friends who live there and pleasant memories of previous visits. But, since the USA started down its isolationist path, I'm quite capable of seeing an authoritarian banana republic for what it is and I want no part of it.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 12:16 GMT Irongut
Re: Other religions?
> Typically they are much older, not tech savvy, and some of them don't have computers or smartphones.
I find your assumptions offensive.
I'm a software developer and I've never had an account on FB, Insta, Twitter, MySpace, etc. At best I don't see the point, at worst you have the likes of Zuck & Musk in charge. El Reg and LinkedIn (strictly for work) are the only social media sites where I have an account.
My 92 year old father is perfectly capable of using the laptops, phones and tablets he owns with almost no tech support from me. He also does not have any social media presence though he does have a WhatsApp account for the football, yoga, zumba, pilates and bowls he took up after mum died.
Just because one is old or does not use social media does not make one "not tech savvy."
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Thursday 26th June 2025 22:53 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: Other religions?
I think you are right to be offended. "Typically they are much older, not tech savvy, and some of them don't have computers or smartphones." should include all age groups, not just the "elderly".
My experience is very few people are actually "tech savvy". They may *use* tech, but they have very little idea of what it is or how it works. They are "magic boxes". If the majority of people were actually "tech savvy", the likes of Facebook would be barren wastelands. No one ever describes the generations growing up using televisions, radios and telephones in the 1960's and 70's as tech savvy because the majority were "users" only.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:24 GMT johnrobyclayton
Time for AI generated Social Media Accounts
Let me see, I want a social media account that:
Is active enough to give screeners enough satisfying content.
Contains no indications of bad feeling towards the the destination country.
Contains no indications of aggression or support for terrorism.
Will get me approved for entry.
Contains no information that is verifiably false.
And that gets interactions from other accounts that are from other manufactured social media accounts that are for the same purpose.
Might get a bit fraught if manufactured social media accounts created for getting into the US start interacting with social media accounts manufactured for getting into China.
And that I can delete and then recreate for the next country I need to go to.
Another business opportunity for those companies that generate homework assignments and term papers.
I am sure that there would be a lot of students willing to pay for it.
“I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.”
― The Patrician, Ankh-Morpork
― Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Thursday 26th June 2025 05:04 GMT Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch
The (executive) government can breach the constitution. If it does, well, that's what the judiciary is for, the likes of Alito and Thomas notwithstanding. In theory, that's the resolution to your paradox.
If questioned, "I support the principles of the US Constitution completely." If asked for more detail about the current government, "With respect, making a governmental decision about me based on my answer to that question is unconstitutional. See my answer to the first question, in particular the bits about free speech, free association, self-incrimination and equal protection before the law."
I have no intention of going anywhere near a place where an employee of the US Government might be empowered to ask one of those questions any time soon.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 06:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
Whilst I'm not American the constitution seems a fine piece of work and I do support it. Wish we had the same. Getting governments to adhere to it and not weasel their way around it, is a different problem and one we could solve if we stopped voting for professional snake oil salesmen. Maybe people should look at candidates history and CV and an honest (joke) media's analysis of them.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 12:22 GMT kmorwath
Just they took away the king and all that stupid "nobility" stuff, which for the period was an advanced idea - anyway, many of those new ideas came from the "illuminist" culture that permeated the era, not all of them from Britain.
Now we are in the "darkenist era" - and instead of truly learned people, we have a bunch of ignorants who build their power on another mass of ignorants. Keeping away students and turning university in some sort of religious teaching schools - like those in Middle East (**every country** in the Middle East...) to create another mass of ignorants, it the way to strongen and keep power.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 12:17 GMT kmorwath
" if you are outside the jurisdiction but want to enter it, then you're fair game."
Stil, the request you make are still bound by your Constition. You can't violate the law at borders. Sure, you can deny entry if you wish. But you can't ask for data violating the fundamental laws. Unless you have a "probable cause" for such request - you can't drag fish, or enable per-crime laws.
If a EU state would decide that a colonoscopy is mandatory for every US citizen, that would be against EU laws, and couldn't be done.
PS: mass murders in US are far more common than abroad, and looking at social posts doesn't help much either. Probably all US students should put they profile to "public"....
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Thursday 26th June 2025 17:20 GMT Uncle Slacky
Re: " if you are outside the jurisdiction but want to enter it, then you're fair game."
Unfortunately it's already been established that constitutional rights aren't guaranteed within 100 miles of the border (including around international airports):
https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone
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Thursday 26th June 2025 12:11 GMT kmorwath
Sorry, but where US Constitution say "people" it means every person, not just US citizens. The Founding Fathers were far better people than the MAGA crowd. Those who thinks it doesn't, don't understand the law and are just stupid suprematists. Asserting that people in US have no rights if they are not US citizens is a very dangerous slope.
Or do you mean that when US citizens are abroad, fundamental rights asserted by the state laws where they are in, don't apply? So we can jail US citizens without due process? We can confiscate all their belongins at will (let's start with Bezos and his friends in Venice!)?
We can enslave them as non-persons?
Beware of what you wish.... it might become true.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 19:25 GMT Anonymous Coward
See my answer to the first question
Questioning AU-THOR-I-TAH? Off to the gulag with you!
I wish I could just /s that, but all too many government officials in the US at all levels seem to have managed to achieve a negative sense of humour when it comes to either their particular role/position or that of nearly any other government office/figure.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 22:17 GMT Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch
Re: See my answer to the first question
Passing through the US Border Security an Australian was asked to show the contents of a kid's backpack, and, removing a teddy, only occupant of the backpack, said "There's a bear in there." Her partner, being a comedian, added "And a chair as well."
For context, in Australia, the TV show Play School is a national institution, and its theme song, unchanged for 50 years, begins "There's a bear in there, and a chair as well." Practically everyone who grew up in Australia knows it by heart, because it's on twice a day, every day of the year, and for pre-schoolers viewing is pretty much compulsory.
Cue multiple officials grilling the entire family and searching every scrap of checked and hand luggage (not sure but in the original account I believe they missed their flight because of it). "What did you mean by a chair? Is there anything else in your luggage you haven't told us about? Are you attempting to take anything out of the country illegally?"
Depending on the story-teller, cavity searches may be part of the story. Possibly apocryphal, but absolutely credible.
/anecdote
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Thursday 26th June 2025 00:34 GMT DS999
This is going to backfire
Other countries will go tit for tat and say "you want to make our citizens open up their profiles, fine we'll make that a condition for American citizens to enter ours on a tourist visa" and watch all the MAGA talking heads on TV go fucking INSANE. But there will be nothing Trump can do about it other than call those countries "shithole countries" or threaten them with tariffs that will be reciprocated.
Its all because Trump wants to be able to eject foreign students who say bad things about him, because he's the thinnest skinned human ever to survive birth.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 10:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: This is going to backfire
"the MAGA talking heads on TV go fucking INSANE."
A destination jurisdiction that required US visitors to declare whether they know how to fire a handgun or long arm and whether they possess either would pretty much do it.
Although I would contest the "go ... INSANE" as I am certain the MAGAsque insanity is congenital and only now its expression is now explicit.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 02:20 GMT Anonymous Coward
hooray for the wayback machine.
I expect that your friends instagram posts about attending an anti-american rally with you are going to make your stay in the US a loop through the international terminal at JFK. If you start blithering about 'free speech' we'll invite you to do it from home.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 06:24 GMT Anonymous Coward
Making it worse
"Visa seekers are reportedly censoring their own posts"
When done US, now you wont know who the anti-americans are. I saw one poor guy was refused entry for having a joke picture of JD Vance on his phone. If that is true and not a troll it's truly pathetic. All the bad guys will have to do to ensure entry is wear a MAGA hat and talk about the threat from Chynah. Oops that's me barred!
Taking a more serious note, it's censorship of free speech and I thought Trump was against that, or at least he was before re-election.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 06:37 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Making it worse
Just back from Boston -Logan Airport and Washington - DCA Airport. They are working as normal.
Country largely divided by Maga cheerleaders, those in denial about The Man in the High Castle-esque USA and the. No Kings Supporters.
Walmart, Food Lion , Royal Farms, Wawa etc all ‘normal’, as was the shit traffic to DCA.
All TSA and CBP staff encountered were pleasant and professional. No Gestapo apparent.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 06:54 GMT kmorwath
A huge gift to Facebook & C.
Remember that Facebook aims abroad to be able to use at least "public" data to train its AIs? The US goverernment comes to rescue!
Is it a violation of both the First and Fourth Amendment? Who cares. After all, Vance says it's EU that hinders free speech, so it must be true. The only one that matters is the Second, all the other ones can be ignored.
Trumpistan is more and more alike Russia and China. Orwrell was right - just it isn't socialism to rule (but the China version), it's crooked capitalism.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 08:57 GMT mark l 2
The El Reg comments are the only real social media im active on, id be fscked if i wanted to get into the US if had to disclose this handle, as I've not exactly be praising the orangutan for the last 6 months.
I suspect the enterprising people on Fivver and other such market places will already be gearing up to sell social media account with US friendly only posts that you can declare on your visa application
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Thursday 26th June 2025 10:09 GMT Kurgan
Welcome to the post-social media world
This is where everyone should see what can happen to people expressing their political views on social media. One day you're here bitching about some political party, the next day you're in a labour camp breaking stones on a chain. Or maybe thrown out of a plane in the middle of the sea. And as I'm writing this, I'm guilty of this behaviour, too. I'll be with the ones at the labour camp soon, probably.
And there is no real way to "clean up", once it's online, it stays online forever.
Oh, and this is a warning to the "I have nothing to hide" people, too. You have nothing to hide NOW. What about tomorrow?
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Thursday 26th June 2025 11:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
That's me done then
"... any indications of hostility towards the
citizens, culture, government, institutions or founding principles of the United States."With the exception of the citizens who have to endure having their noses rubbed into the own political excrement without any hostility from me (or sympathy), I have very little time for the hypocrisy of the rest.
[Don't forget those "founding principles" encompassed the "institution" of chattel slavery. Remedied in 1865 arguably for reasons not directly related to that abomination.]
Fortunately I am perfectly content to blither on from a home not blessed by the first amendment even about free speech without feeling deprived of the dubious privilege of visiting the imperial Trumpisstani homeland.
I imagine this is going to require significant detours for journeys from some nations for visitors to Canada who wish to, or need to absolutely avoid transiting a US jurisdiction.
I can imagine conference venues in Canada and Mexico receiving a boost hosting "international" events; while those in the US a corresponding slump.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 17:41 GMT M.V. Lipvig
I see nothing wrong here
Entering any nation is a privilege. If a nation wants to demand all visitors wear pink pants with yellow polkadots and go everywhere hopping on one leg while shouting HEADY HEADY HEADY then guess what? You either comply or you don't enter that nation.
When I as an American visit other nations, I fully expect to comply with their laws and take pains to not stand out while there. I'm visiting someone else's home, and it's not my job to complain or cause trouble while there, nor do I break laws while there that I might not think twice about breaking at home. I don't think it's too much to expect the same when others visit mine.
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Thursday 26th June 2025 19:30 GMT Excused Boots
Re: I see nothing wrong here
"I don't think it's too much to expect the same when others visit mine.”
And yes, absolutely, if I were to visit the US and engage in some activity that breaks the law, then, of course, I expect to be punished.
Fine, but is it the law in the US that any sort of criticism of the Trump administration is illegal? Is it OK if I were to say, ‘yes I get your Second Amendment, but surely....’?
Now I’m not advocating nor leading any sort of ‘armed insurrection*’ I’m merely raising a point, a question.
Should I be banned from entering the US just for asking ‘OK, now are we sure that your Founding Fathers wanted or anticipated.....'?
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Thursday 26th June 2025 23:12 GMT John Brown (no body)
Re: I see nothing wrong here
"I don't think it's too much to expect the same when others visit mine."
So, when Trump, Vance or any other "elected officials" criticise EU leadership or claim there is no freedom of speech in the EU, we should ban them from ever visiting again? Even though criticising the Govt. or its leaders is actually allowed because we *do* have freedom of speech, even for foreign visitors? Because that is EXACTLY what the US is now doing.
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Friday 27th June 2025 16:34 GMT tiggity
US visit
I am visiting (Cali) this year from UK.
On ESTA form (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) there was stuff about social media but was also an option to state you have no social media
It has been decades since I was last in USA on a work visit, going through "customs" was very unpleasant back then as they seemed to pick individuals who just hate everybody to be passenger facing... and that was Boston, one of the more liberal states.
So it will be difficult for me to know if the "customs" experience is more unpleasant / aggressive as a very high bar was set on my last visit.
Though, UK only has illusion of freedom of opinion / speech (e.g. we see twisting of terrorism laws to target people who disagree with government policy on the Israel / Palestine situation *, judiciary encouraged to give harsh as possible sentences on JSO protesters etc)
So, a US visit, will be different people in charge but still only an illusion of a free & fair democracy where difference of opinion is tolerated. But to various degrees, all countries are like that. Even those you think are "perfect" reveal their limits on freedom of expression when you investigate closely.
* & even get the tool Starmer claiming Kneecap should be banned from Glastonbury (it's a music festival FFS & they are correct that we are seeing a genocide, being aware of Irish history (on both sides of the border) they are already well aware of how the (primarily English) UK government behaves towards those that strongly disagree with it))