Logitech's latest keyboard and mouse combo is wired, quiet, and suspiciously sensible Logitech has embraced the sound of silence with its Signature Slim Wired K620 keyboard and M520 mouse combo. A wired keyboard and mouse feel like throwbacks. With wireless devices ruling the roost, a user would be forgiven for wondering who, other than gamers, would want such a thing. However, there are plenty of industries …
I have two K740s (the second of which was the demo unit bought off the display floor when it became clear to the good folks at my local Office Depot that the one K470 they had listed in their inventory was the demo unit). The first one I've had for well on 10 years, and the second for probably 3. Both are in daily use on different machines (No, I did not by one to cannibalize parts from...). Wish I could find a 3rd for my music machine.
Naturally, the onset of enshittification means this keyboard is no more, and is now being "replaced" by the likes of the 620 being reviewed here.
I have an early beige Trackman Marble optical trackball without the two extra inset buttons that is still going strong. I remember using it with my Iyonix (maybe also with my Risc PC before that although my memory might be wrong) so it It must be at least 20 years old. I have a couple of the later models in daily use as well which must be of the order of 10-15 years old. I like them so much that I bought two more in case they stopped making them. That was maybe three years ago and one of them is still unopened waiting for one of the other ones to die.
They will all probably outlast me.
I liked the Trackman Marble FX, shame it was only right handed.
I replaced it with the Kensington Orbit Trackball with Scroll Ring. Whilst it had a bigger footprint it was flatter in the bag. It also supported left and right hand use. My main complaint was how cheap it felt, given the premium price.
I'm typing this on my 2002 Logitech Internet Keyboard (the one with the mouse buttons and scroll wheel) and using my 1999 Logitech Mouseman Wheel Mouse.
I'd say that 23 years for a keyboard (two, actually, I got another one for work, and it's still going strong) and 26 years for a mouse is a hell of a long half life.
Credit where it's due - and believe me, saying nice things about Microsoft is not a habit of mine - I am still using a Microsoft Internet Keyboard Pro from '99 as my daily driver, and it's still going strong. The unpowered USB1.1 port is adequate for my wireless mouse dongle, although I admit that the wrist-rest has lost its plastic attachment clips after feeling the force of my wrath once :)
My wrist support is still intact, though.
I've changed PC many times since this keyboard fell into my lap secondhand in 2001, but the keyboard remains the one constant in my setup.
It was purchased for another user in 1999/2000 at the place I worked. When the company closed down in the second half of 2001 and that other user was long gone, having left in the first round of redundancies earlier that year, his keyboard was one of the things that was going to be thrown out. So, I nabbed it before some other bugger did! I also kept my work computer - however, as that was a 333MHz Simply PC running Windows 98, that has long been recycled!
I had an MX700 that lasted about 20 years, went through several batteries, but finally would no longer charge reliably.
Replaced with an MX Master 3 which is 5 years old now. Was so impressed I bought another one for work. (The new quiet one, which really is much quieter..)
My worry with the MX Master is I couldn't (easly) replace the battery, but as I say, it's 5 years old now and whilst doesn't manage the level it did initially it still only needs charging every few weeks so when it finally goes I won't feel cheated.
The other thing worth noting is I managed to tip a cup of tea over it after having it about 6 months... took it to bits, gave it a good clean and it's still going strong.
> with an inflated price tag
Rather say "Improved profit margin to encourage retail distribution". A lot of large retailers won't pay half of retail price. It's gotta be 30 bucks wholesale to retail at 60 bucks.
This was drummed into me in 1972 when I worked in the RadioShack warehouse. The pick-slips had the retail price and also the import cost.
When I got my first good cellphone I realized my fat fingers could not type on tiny screen. I rushed over to WalMart (no longer a cheap store) and bought LogiTech's 3-way BlueTooth keyboard. For $60. Didn't work for chit, but maybe it was me? Anyway, 3 years later I noted that WM was selling the same product for $30.
Like a blimp, prices have to be inflated.
Exactly that.
Logitech have a habit of doing this.
They have "premium" products that enhance the brand and then they offer cheaper alternatives that are bad value at the price point.
I'm sure they aren't the only big brand name that practice this deception.
"Oh, it's logitech! - must be worth paying 50% more than <lesser known brand>"
No, it isn't. It really isn't.
The level of hype around the premium products is also hugely unjustified - logitech are all about the brand and marketing.
It's a shame because Logitech have made some damn good products.
I rocked my Cordless Desktop S510 for 15 years before it gave up the ghost. Loved that keyboard/mouse combo.
That's not bad longevity.
Never had any issue with muscle pain, which can't be said for my mechanical keyboard obsession these days.
It really is an obsession.
I do love typing on the many different keyboards I've purchased, but I still am not sure whether it is mechanical keyboards contributing toward a series of minor aches and pains.
A lovely tactile keyboard is nice and all that, but it requires significantly more pressure than a squishy membrane one.
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This point is something that got me. Logitech are basically in the after-sales market.
You buy a Dell, HP, Lenovo et al desktop and it was supplied with an own brand keyboard and mouse (not sure if this still is the case).
You only need a new keyboard/mouse for a laptop or desktop from a small system builder if you haven’t got a decent spare keyboard/mouse.
Because these bundled keyboards and mice were cheap, people went out and brought decent keyboards and mice, and the early Logitech kit certainly fitted this market niche (as did the early Microsoft keyboards and mice)
Thereby requiring only one socket on the computer? Apple has a copyright or something?
That said, I suspect I'm in a minority here when I say I have no problems with my Logitec K220/M150 wireless keyboard and mouse; it's still on its original battery cells after five years or so. Admittedly, the A and S labels have worn out, and the E isn't far behind...
I have seen keyboards with built in USB hub, but they are few and far between. As you suggest, it would make life a lot easier for a lot of people - especially those who have to constantly switch between computers, or using laptops with less ports than required.
I suspect it's part of the "why spend the few pennies on something few will use" cost engineering process.
USB ports on the old Apple keyboards, which ran at USB 1 speeds
Well considering USB 1 was all there was when the old USB Apple keyboards were first designed, that's not all that surprising. When the iMac came out, the USB ports ran at a heady 12mbps. That seems, and was, very slow by today's standards, but in a world of dial-up internet (56kbps max), LocalTalk (230kbps IIRC), Ethernet 10mbps for a few very well off people who could afford it), and floppy disks - it was something of a leap forward.
And it did what it was supposed to do - allow you to plug keyboard and mouse into one port of the computer.
The far more annoying "feature" for me was the non-standard plug & socket they used, which IIRC was to prevent you using anything but Apple's USB extension lead. I guess that was to avoid people using cheap (i.e. thin wires) leads, not have enough power for reliable operations, and then slag Apple off because of it. Which reminds me, I recall it was very easy to get a pop up message along the lines of "are you 'avving a larf mate, I can't power that device you've just plugged in" using the sockets on the keyboard.
But all of that pales into insignificance if I mention the outright failure - I give you the "hockey puck" round mouse, now that was truly awful.
Aso the connection between the cable and the keyboard itself which was prone to failure. That annoyed me, t've never been an apple fan or chiclet key fan, but that keyboard was surprisingly nice to type on. One of the rare times I came across something that I couldn't easily fix.
Totally agree that there should be a USB port on the keyboard and with a shorter than normal lead. Preferably two sockets, one on each side to accomodate both lefties and righties and provide a spare socket for memory stick, or whatever else you fancy.
I would be happy to pay the extra 50p cost, and they would have transformed a so - so expensive keyboard into one you might actualy want to buy.
One socket good, two sockets better. For those awkward left-handers of which I am one. Any idea what it’d cost to add a usb-c hub to a keyboard?
I’m reasonably ambidextrous, and I mainly use my right hand for mouse, switching to left when my hand is tired.
Last time I looked, I think the Windows mouse left/right buttons settings was global, so even with two mice I’d have to reconfigure every time I swapped hands. :(
"Any idea what it’d cost to add a usb-c hub to a keyboard?"
Bill of materials would be pence, perhaps 50p at factory gate But factory gate means nothing, they would need to design it in, get it to retail with everybody's margins added. Cheapest I can see for a low spec hub, selling retail (note: from a reasonable brand) is about five anythings. Whilst a keyboard wouldn't need the casing of an external hub, the tooling and design for the keyboard would be a bit higher, there's SKU costs, and higher warranty costs to factor in (more complexity = more stuff to go wrong). If we stick with the fiver, that's not really appreciable on a 60+ keyboard, at the 20 something mark it's quite a big jump, and although that may be for more capability, most people buying low end wired keyboards will still look to save the fiver. And if the fiver puts off sufficient skinflints, then design and selling costs have to be spread on fewer units.
I'm also left handed, and mouse ambidextrously, with a default of using my right hand.
I simply leave the left/right toggle for primary click configured as default, and when using my left hand, use the middle finger for normal click, index finger for context menus. Wasn't hard to learn, and no need to reconfigure when swapping hands.
> Apple has a copyright or something?
Over rounded rectangles, perhaps, but not this. I've a no-name keyboard with two USB ports on it, and have wished others caught on to the value of this. It's quite handy for plugging in USB drives or other short-term use.
Re label wear-off : I'm a Dvorak typist with QWERTY keyboards, so I'm _usually_ not looking at the keyboard. Every once in a while, I'm in a situation where I have to enter something in QWERTY; only then do I notice that the labels on my keyboard are fading out.
Or maybe 'ease'? Or 'asses'?
I hadn't even really looked closely at my keycaps for a while. Now that I do, I see that the entire home row (where a Dvorak typist puts most of the abuse) shows a lot of wear. Three keys have no paint left. Four have a little bit left, but nothing where you could tell what was originally on the key.
This is an EZ-9720 "Smart" ergonomic keyboard, somewhere around 25 years old.
That was my first thought as well. USB ports are a real problem on modern laptops and mini-desktops.
Our Dell docks have 3 USB-A and 2 USB-C ports, the desktops generally 3-4 USB-A ports and maybe a USB-C, and we need to plug in headsets, camera, mouse and keyboard for the standard set-up, before we move onto specialty hardware. Many are already using at least one USB port on the laptop as well.
Either having 2 cables to one USB plug or daisy-chaining the mouse makes so much sense, but hardly anyone bothers. I think the only keyboards I've had over the years that allowed that were the Apple crumb-catcher and a Razer Blackwidow.
The usual explanation is that the Euro price includes the VAT of something like 17.5–20%, whilst the USD price will get sales tax added to it at the point of sale. That puts the prices more nearly in the same ballpark, even with the Euro being worth a bit more currently. It does surprise me a bit given the tariff situation, though, but just about every way they've been responding to that has been a surprise.
Don't forget, the USA doesn't add sales tax to prices, because varies from town to town, almost, certainly from county to county. EU prices have to include the tax.
Also, the USA is a much bigger market for keyboards with that layout, each European country has its own layout, so they are made in smaller volumes, which ups the price a bit. But that would put it, at the current exchange rates, at just over 70€...
My pet hate about laptops is the way ALL manufacturers default to "tap to click" ON.
I bloody LOATHE that!
Hateful spiteful function. Until I find out how to kill it the bloody thing is constantly misinterpreting my normal finger movements on the touchpad as taps resulting in God knows what being selected, dragged and dropped to God knows where. All because of bloody tap to click.
TURN THE BLOODY THING OFF BY DEFAULT.
Keyboards used to be basic and cheap peripherals. My current keyboard is still functional, but starting to look scruffy, with the symbols wearing off the keys. As a touch typist this is not particularly important, but I would like it to look neat.
All I want is a standard full-size UK layout, 105 full travel keys, USB wired, decent build quality that will last a few years. No programmable function keys, no RGB lighting, no 'ultra-fast response'. Not long ago this would have been a £25 device, but these days, not even close, even if you can find one of that specification.
no RGB lighting
Drove me crackers on some recent acquisitions until I worked out how to turn it off.
Completely beyond my comprehension why any sane person would want a psychedelic light show under their finger tips; extremely distracting. Numlock and Caplock are the only two states that really benefit from a visual indication and then only in one colour and not flashing.
A small physical switch on the underside that had a base (sane) mode position and an alternate feature (pleb fascinator) mode would be desirable.
I can think of a couple of practical use cases for RGB lighting, neither of which is to display a psychedelic lightshow (which typically tends to be the domain of showrooms, see also 90s era stereos):
1. (For whole keyboard or zoned lighting) Adjusting backlighting colour to your preferences, some people may prefer warmer colour palettes for backlighting for example.
2. More for gamers, but being able to colour highlight particular keys can be quite useful. Flashing can even be useful there as a way to communicate status (although control methods tend to be proprietary so integrating these things can be a bit painful).
"2. More for gamers, but being able to colour highlight particular keys can be quite useful. Flashing can even be useful there as a way to communicate status (although control methods tend to be proprietary so integrating these things can be a bit painful)."
I'd expect any serious gamer, especially a "pro" gamer who spends many hours per day honing their skills to neither want not need visual cues anywhere other than on the screen. Taking eyes off the gameplay, even for a fraction of a second to look for visual cues on the keyboard is likely to lose them the game. For them, it's should be akin to a rally driver. They don't look at the pedals, the steering wheel, the gear change because they *know* where it is from constant use. I suspect light-up keyboards targetted at "gamers" are for the casual or wannabe crowd and is 99% marketing BS. Same with all the pimp-lights inside the case. It's purely for show for those that want to show off their "artistic" tendencies. Nothing wrong with that, and I have seem some very nice looking PCs, but not my cup of tea in terms of spending extra cash :-)
I'd expect any serious gamer, especially a "pro" gamer who spends many hours per day honing their skills to neither want not need visual cues anywhere other than on the screen.Well, it's a good thing ibmalone didn't say anything about 'serious gamer[s]', then, isn't it? Why, I do hear tell that there are even some gamers who play games for — brace yourself — pure enjoyment! Oh dear, I'm getting the vapours just thinking about it!
no RGB lighting
Ok, confession time... I actually quite like it.
I went down the stupid keyboard rabbit hole a few years ago, bought an overpriced build it yourself mechanical one (that does happen to be one of the nicest things I've ever typed on). Getting one without LEDs proved to be impossible.
I initially used it with them turned off, but after a while, and a bit of playing, did start to prefer them on.
Initially I just used it as a low level backlight (all keys the same colour, quite muted), but a firmware upgrade to the keyboard added that effect where pressing a key triggers a burst around that key. I now have that. Again a quite muted dim colour, no rainbows, and most of the time I don't really notice it. But when I do I quite enjoy it.
0% functionality, 100% aesthetics, I wouldn't buy a keyboard for it, but at the end of the day, what the hell. :)
Oh, the light under Caps Lock is handy too.
Might I suggest a (not too) used mechanical gaming one from eBay at <£40?
It would tick all your boxes. I’ve bought 3 recently; all have standard layout, back lighting than can be turned down or off, a USB port, and are excellent to type on. A bonus is the keytops can be replaced if they wear out, and another bonus is none of them has an AI key. :)
I have a Durgod Taurus K310, which is worth a look if you can find them second hand.
It's a full size mechanical keyboard, no lights. It has an orange esc and enter key, but they give you grey ones too.
Had it a few years now as my work keyboard, works well.
Don't get the MX blue keys though, unless you really like the click. The brown are much quieter.
I'm starting to turn into a bit of a vintage keyboard nerd. Over the last year or two I've accumulated various boards from the 80s and 90s with interesting keyswitches - and all of them feel way better than these horrible laptop-style keyboards.
(I recently picked up an Apple M0116 keyboard with Salmon Alps switches - it's probably 35 years old, it's a dream to type on, and still works perfectly, and with the help of a ProMicro, now speaks USB.)
The letters labelling the keys all magically become lower case?
Actually tiny programmable e-ink displays on each key wouldn't be the silliest idea as you would have a universal keyboard if the scan codes sent by each key were equally programmable.
Life is too short to not have a decent keyboard - Cherry brown switches my preference too.
In my opinion Notebooks/Laptops are an ergonomic disaster - if you are using its keyboard the screen is well below your normal line of vision so you tilt your neck and back as to resemble a kyphotic question mark with RSI thrown in for good measure.
If the lappy is just being toted between work and home or just between office locations decent keyboards and monitors really are cheap enough (and incidentally power supplies) to replicate in multiple locations and doubtless would be shared in any case. An ultra small form PC or NUC style box would be just as convenient as a laptop to lug around.
Although carrying an encrypted bootable SSD might be even more convenient.
...tiny programmable e-ink displays on each key wouldn't be the silliest idea as you would have a universal keyboard...
It's been done by several vendors and they seem to work well but are you prepared to pay at least (£$€)250 for a keyboard?
Tiny eink displays are not cheap and a full keyboard would need over 100 of them.
Here is an unanticipated benefit of illuminated keyboards. The key legends are not printed but cut into the top of the key and filled with translucent plastic so there is no printing to wear out.
I have no idea what loony would want cycling RGB on the keys, I looked for a plain white lit one but couldn't find any with decent switches. Ended up with a full RGB one which has been set to a pale yellow (with the slight blue hue of the plastic, it gives the closest to white I could manage) since the day I unpacked it.
I suppose it'd be useful for some games to set certain keys to different colours but the supplied software to set the key colours individually seems to have been exceedingly well designed if the intention was to make everything as fiddly, over-complicated and confusing as possible.
> cycling RGB on the keys
Somebody in Asia loves that effect. I got a toilet light* that defaults to R_A_I_N_B_O_W cycle. I can stall it on a color, but if I wriggle it goes back to cycling. (* Lots of nighttime potty visits in this house.)
> I looked for a plain white
daskeyboard Prime 13 has blueish-white, 7 brightness levels controlled by 2-key (not software!). The lowest brightness is not real dim, not all features well-explained, and Cherry Brown switches are hard on my old fingers. And not cheap, but I'm past relying on pre-abused $13 keyboards.
Dye infused caps used to be pretty standard (and might last longer than the keyboard), but I had to get rid of my last one a while ago and most new keyboards are black where dye infusion is less easy. That said I'm typing this on a cheap Dell keyboard (basically the add-on option for one their workstations) that must be at least 15 years old, and the only decals to have worn off are the direction keys and half a shift symbol.
...or something like this? Proper keyboard and even has a plasma display! (Not in the modern sense of a plasma display though - this one has a rather limited colour palette :-)
It really does need to be plugged in though as battery life would be quite short, if it even had a battery. And a good strong lap to rest it on while working.
€90 or £77 (possibly plus vat) for a basic wired keyboard and mouse. Worse, one with a laptop style keys.
I think the appropriate repsonse to that is, "are you having a laugh?".
If you want basic Argos has a basic wired keyboard and mouse (with 4.5 out of 5 rating with nearly 300 reviews) for £15.
In fact I paid nearly the same (£78) for a for a Keychron K4 wireless mechnical keyboard which I thought was a damn expensive keyboard.
Came across this keyboard when I joined this company five years ago. No idea how old it is ( I suspect very), but just a brilliant office kb. It's quiet, backlit and has a lovely feeling.
The general manager also has one, and there is no way he's giving it up. Tried to find a modern equivalent - doesn't seem to exist.
Just bring out a newer version of this Logitech. So much better than most of the cheap c*** that's out there.
"With wireless devices ruling the roost, a user would be forgiven for wondering who, other than gamers, would want such a thing."
Government workers get cheap wired as a default. As a taxpayer, I am in favor of this stinginess -- and lack of portability.
Now, I do struggle with the reasoning for this particular wired set-up; it is certainly not for the stingy.
The wire isn't in the way. If you care about aesthetics drill a hole in the desk and feed the wire from the keyboard into it lol
For a mouse I can understand, the wire can be annoying and get in your way - sometimes it pulls the mouse in one direction or it restricts movement in another. Plus if you're like me and have never liked touchpads on laptops and use an external mouse it is easier if it is wireless. But a wireless keyboard? Never saw the point.
Even the mouse wire would be far less of an issue if they used a properly flexible out sheath instead of the cheapest, thinnest stuff they can. if the outer sheath, at least, was silicone rubber, there'd be no (or at least far less of an) issue with the cable. But try finding one! They probably exist, but that feature isn't marketed, so making the ones that do exist, very hard to find.
I remember when Logitech made decent kit.
Now I have Microsoft & Logitech Bluetooth keyboards for the phone. Guess which one either has dead batteries after 2 weeks, and/or has totally forgotten the BT pairing. Nope, it's not the Microsoft keyboard, which will still have a charged battery after 2 months of non-use, which is impressive these days.
Tried wireless kbd/mouse but messing with batteries (invariably go flat when you're out of stock) and the wireless pairing. Then I lost the mouse, fell behind my (untidy) desk into the (untidy) nest of rubbish that had also fallen down the back, junk and cables (would make a good home for a real mouse).
I gifted that to my wife and reverted to wired. Later with the first hints of RSI I needed to switch to a vertical mouse (strongly recommended) do they even do a wireless version (don't bother to tell me, I don't care).
As for this thing, why have Logitech bothered? And why at that excessive price? And why has The Register even bothered to mention it (freebie press sample?).
This reminded me of another keyboard fail, the Microsoft ergonomic. It was OK, probably helped reduce RSI risk but some of the letters wore off the keys within warranty. A complaint was disregarded for a few months then a box of 10 brand new ones arrived but designed for a different market so a few layout oddities (like no dedicated £ key and the @ in the wrong place). Those also wore out too fast but kept my office supplied for several years.
The one thing I won't worry about is wear as it's a spare for colleagues who have to suffer the French abomination called AZERTY. But what struck me when I prepped the MK295 I bought was that it was /really/ silent. Despite having decent key travel, it's so silent it appears to be made for surfing dodgy sites without waking up a partner :).
The mouse is meh, but it works well wirelessly so it'll do (I prefer the MX Anywhere 3 as it also works on a glass table). I have an MX Keys in QWERTY which is already a few years old and despite apparently only charging to 50% it's working quite happily. Maybe I'll open it up to see what's up with those rechargeable cells, but otherwise no complaints.
I do have a friend who enjoys the clacky variety of keyboards, and combined with how fast he types I suspect he'll eventually get an ASBO for the racket he makes :).
Don't knock it. Far less likely to get 'borrowed' by someone who then mixes up the receivers. It's why we bought paint markers and worked out a dot pattern so we had at least a fighting chance because management didn't want to spring for universal receivers.
It's also handy with mice as you can dig them out from underneath a stack of papers, it never gets lost :).
Ever had to work in open plan, shared desk type of environment?
Ever found the wireless dongle that goes with the kb/mouse at the desk? Yeah, how about a week or two after installation?
The wireless dongles tend to be attached to the laptop, and forgotten about. And when the user find it occupying a USB slot they would like to use at the home office, they tend to remove it and maybe stick it in a drawer somewhere. The wired solution fixes that
And anyone bringing / using a loud physical KB in an open plan office space should have to be present and watching while their coworkers get a hack (or two) each at the KB (mounted on something soitable) with a fireaxe, and the remains then cremated
In other words, if you have to use a physical loud obnoxious and noisy KB, do it somewhere where you are not bothering anyone. That "home" office you have established in that mountain cottage is probably a good place
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