A classic crash from Classic Outlook when opening or creating emails

Microsoft is so keen for users to migrate to the New Outlook email client that it has broken Classic Outlook again. This time, affected users are unable to open or create a message. An email client unable to open or create emails is sub-optimal. Considering that plenty of users are likely to stick with Classic Outlook until …

[JimmyPage]

You will never change my mind ...

That a [pigheaded refusal for anyone to promote an FOSS alternative to Outlook is a major factor in the lack of desktop Linux.

I don't need a load of battle hardened techies to "explain" to me how that doesn't matter to them.

They need to meet the average user in CorporateLand for whom "email" is Outlook and "Calendar" is Outlook (and whose "contacts" are Outlook).

The amount they actually do with it is immaterial.

The closest analogy I can think of is trying to persuade people who have grown up with sails onto a steamship. It's a fuck load easier to fit some dummy sails to keep them happy than it is to explain the principles involved.

Before that the same people who have needed wooden cladding in order to travel in an iron ship.

And so on.

[gv]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

For my corporate email, I have Outlook in a (Firefox) browser tab whether I'm running Windows or Linux, but then I don't have the esoteric use cases that people who need the full fat classic Outlook require.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

You rather underscore the original point.

It's not all about you.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

For me the Seamonkey mail client window is email, contacts and calendar.* If I weren't running them combined with a browser it would be Thunderbird - more or less the same codebase. Obviously any email client is going to be combined with contacts. Calendar has been an add-on for yonks. Now it's rolled into a tabbed interface rather than being a separate window. If the pig's head is removed from Microsoft's arse where it's obviously stuffed, you'd notice people have been promoting this, especially in Thunderbird form, for ever.

Unlike Outlook they can exchange data with a server by open standard protocols - no proprietary crap. In that way I have calendar sync either way with my mobile phone.

And for avoidance of doubt, it's not just about me: you can even use either on your Windows - no need for whatever app Microsoft provide for mail this month.

* It's also an RSS reader and usenet client. It can also be an IRC client but not addons for more recent chat protocols

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "For me"

But as noted, it isn't all about you.

Nobody reading this article would have the slightest problem firing up a Linux desktop and setting up a suite of FOSS applications that will mimic a Windows PC with MS Office (which is the examplar).

However, it's not us that you need to convince. It's your users. Your MDs, FDs, CEOs COOs all of whom will go "What on earth is this shite ?" if you try to pull the same stunt with them/

Generally in discussion (especially on El Reg) people manage to miss the point by a country mile. it's not that you can't "do what Outlook does" on a Linux desktop. It's that there is no like-for-like drop in. Two different problems. We've solved the first.

[Dan 55]

Re: "For me"

What like-for-like drop-in? How many GUI resigns have Outlook and Office had over the years?

The only problem people have is it doesn't say "Outlook" on the desktop icon and in the title bar (if it hasn't been removed) because they'll accept any other change.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: "For me"

"Your MDs, FDs, CEOs COOs all of whom will go "What on earth is this shite ?" if you try to pull the same stunt with them"

Those in the EU who are paying attention - like, for instance the Danish government - will be starting to ask their IT departments what happens if Trump decides to tell Microsoft to pull the plug on the likes of Exchange. Are you lot going to have an answer?

Even if manglement doesn't ask you, do you have a plan B? No? What are you doing to earn your salaries?

Couldn't happen? It did when Trump decided he could and would sanction the prosecutor at the International Criminal Court.

[Roopee]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

At work our line-of-business app is Salesforce-based, so we have to have a Salesforce add-in in Outlook (currently we can run Old or New - I run both). I don't think such a thing exists for Thunderbird, and I'd be surprised if it would ever be written, so unfortunately Thunderbird is a non-starter.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Salesforce add-in in Outlook

Sounds like you've gotten (debatably) "lucky" with that plugin working in New Outlook.

The plugin API and its functionality being one of the big things MS took a machete to in creating New Outlook, IIRC....

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

Agreed, it's a big factor and while I use Outlook web client on Linux, I would much rather have a native Linux application that handled email, encryption and calendar

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

The frustrating thing is 80% of the people who have Outlook installed don't need it - they could easily use the O365 version that would be fine for Linux.

It's breaking the "we have always done it this way" mindset that ossifies management over time.

I totally admit that in itself a native Linux version of Outlook would be a waste. However if you view it as the "killer app" that will get desktop Linux into the world, then it would be a mere bagatelle.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

Ossifies management? There's plain evidnece here that it ossifies IT, possibly even worse than management.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: You will never change my mind ...

" I would much rather have a native Linux application that handled email, encryption and calendar"

apt install thinderbird

Or other package manager as appropriate.

It's not rocket science.

[Anonymous Coward]

Outlook 2007

has been working fine for me for the last 18 years.

[Roland6]

Re: Outlook 2007

Given TLS1.3 came out in 2018, I am a little surprised MS only enforced the use of TLS1.2 with 365 in October 2024. With the increasing focus on security it can’t be long before the world finally moves to TLS 1.3 which will probably be the end of life for Outlook 2007 (I suspect TLS 1.3 Experiemental, is sufficiently different to ratified TLS 1.3 to prevent reliable interworking).

[Jakester]

Re: Outlook 2007

It is extremely unlikely that Outlook 2007 will communicate with Microsoft 365 servers as Microsoft 365 no longer works properly with with Outlook 2016 and Outlook 2019. They still work with many non-Microsoft 365 e-mail servers.

[david 12]

Also Win7/Edge

Can't use Edge on Win7 to show email at Outlook.com. Login works, but functionality is broken.

[Anonymous Coward]

Outlook was poor

Dumped 10+ years ago.

Not one corruption since.

[Roland6]

Re: Outlook was poor

Replaced with what?

A mail client running within a browser (including “ Outlook”) is not a correct answer, and shows you don’t understand the problem.

The issue is replacing Outlook desktop, as shipped with Office standalone versions including Office 2024.

From memory, Zimbra was an attempt at an Outlook (and Exchange) replacement, with a “full fat” desktop client for Windows and Linux, but the open source version has seemingly been sidelined in preference to the proprietary version.

Changing away from Outlook/Exchange also brings up the issue of plugins for Teams, Zoom etc. and if you are using the form/work flow capabilities of Outlook/Exchange…

Ie. MS did make Outlook highly functional, shame it was done in typical MS fashion…

[Anonymous Coward]

An excuse to move to Thunderbird... has not been so easy... but done!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only 365

It's not only 365 Office having the issue, seen it with standard Office installed on Remote Desktop / RemoteApp (eg NOT on 365) also having the same issue for some users. But, fortunately the same FORMS2 work around does seem to work.

[WakeTheGimp]

I wish I'd checked the Rag last week when one of my Outlook desktop clients started experiencing Outlook crashing problems. It was pretty much a show-stopper for him. I spent about an hour doing the usual troubleshooting techniques, non of which worked. I couldn't figure out what was causing the crashing.

I ditched Outlook years ago, and switched to eM Client for my Windows devices, and absolutely love it. So much so, that I've become a partner/reseller and have moved a lot of my clients away from Outlook to eM Client since.

So I thought 'lets see how his email works in eM Client" (knowing full well it'd work just fine). I set him up with Google Workspace for his domain email years ago, and eM Client plays very nicely with Google accounts (others too, but especially seamless with Google).

Five minutes later, he was up and running and he has been very impressed with it's ease of use and how fast it is in comparison. I also customised it to look and work as much like Outlook as I could (not very hard to do) and so far he's loving it, and I'll get him a license once his 30 day trial is up (assuming he has no problems with it in the meantime).

As for my Linux machines, unfortunately eM Client don't have a 'nix version (yet?!) despite my (and lots of other users) feature requests for them to develop one. *fingers crossed for someday*

In the meantime, I use Evolution. I used to use Thunderbird, but I don't really like the current interface (personal preference, not saying it's not a bad email client option).

[Ken Moorhouse]

For corporate use...

For corporate use, a lot of email functionality should be instigated through a program that manages the business (one of those Enterprise thingamejigs). I've written many of these incorporating email client functionality, parsing data from messages that contain standardised data, and sending reports out in various formats looking as if it is a normal email. I use Delphi/XE for this and it works fine. I also am in touch with another Delphi dev who likes to drive Outlook using MAPI. Oh the anguish in making sure of the Outlook being used, integration with Anti Virus software and bloated pst's. Being completely isolated from mail client dependancy suits me just fine.