Mozilla frets about Google's push to build AI into Chrome

Mozilla is concerned that Google's efforts to build Gemini into its Chrome browser will make it even more difficult for rivals to compete with the search and ads giant. The Firefox maker last week voiced opposition to Google's plans to add AI-based APIs to Chrome, though Google has already expressed its intention to ship some …

[Pulled Tea]

Chatbot interfaces are an enclosure play, and Mozilla should NOT be playing the game

Google's AI Overviews and AI Mode, for example, are said to be diverting web traffic from news sites, and the rise of chatbot interfaces like ChatGPT means some queries that might have been handled by web search engines are now answered without a browser at all.

The thing is it's been visible for a long time that LLMs were essentially an enclosure play from model makers to cut off content producers from revenue, so it's amazing that Mozilla is basically just washing their hands off defending their most crucial target audience — people who develop for the web — for… what? A piece of enclosed, share-cropped monopoly?

I get Mozilla wants to survive as an org, but there are better ways to survive it than trying to (badly) enclose a commons away from the people who made your browser (and the Internet) a big, active place. Recognize that LLMs are not only driving people away from the web, and worse, polluting the information ecosystem with poorly-done slop, and go back to first principles, and the thing that made Mozilla great — a commitment to open standards and the web as an open platform, not a closed, proprietary network of unreliable slop.

If Mozilla can't do it anymore, someone else will have to take up that job. Maybe a whole bunch of someone elses.

[Brewster's Angle Grinder]

Re: Chatbot interfaces are an enclosure play, and Mozilla should NOT be playing the game

?!

As best I can parse your post, you are complaining about Mozilla. But this is Google’s idea and Mozilla are opposing it and refusing to ship the AI APIs. So what's your issue? (Unless your complaint is you want Mozilla to ship the AIs?)

[Pulled Tea]

Re: Chatbot interfaces are an enclosure play, and Mozilla should NOT be playing the game

[Firefox SVP Anthony Enzor-DeMeo] said he's still exploring how Firefox will interoperate with AI, but he is looking closely at local models that can be stored on-device and don't transmit information to the cloud.

Or here's an idea: don't.

They've been thinking about pushing AI tools towards users for quite a bit of the year now. Mozilla have abandoned practically every other product just to go all-in on AI, and are complaining that Google are planning to vertically integrate, not because they're opposed to the idea of LLMs extruding slop into the Internet in a desperate attempt of Number Go Up, but because Mozilla can't do what Google can.

Well, here's the thing: don't. Just… don't. You're not going to make it, going toe-to-toe with a convicted monopolist, doing clearly a monopolistic enclosure thing. Do something else. Circle around and focus on what made Mozilla great — open standards, user freedom, independence from control. That's why people use the browser, not because they want some kind of private version of a tool that already depends on massive slurping of private data. Come on.

[Brewster's Angle Grinder]

With friends like you....

This is not about the tools - the bells and whistles - which are already shipping in Firefox and which you can chose to use or to ignore. This is about developer APIs which will mean websites stop working in Firefox and you'll be forced to use Chrome/Edge.

And, I say again, they are opposing it. They are doing exactly what you want. So, right now, you sound as smart as Badenoch when she demands a U-turn immediately after the PM has announced a U-turn. You are criticising Mozilla for doing exactly what you are asking them to do. You seem unable to take "yes", for an answer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: With friends like you....

If the site requires an "AI" in the browser to be able to use it, it's already broken.

[The Man Who Fell To Earth]

Re: Chatbot interfaces are an enclosure play, and Mozilla should NOT be playing the game

All I want to know is how to disable it. You can't even submit a simple search query to Google anymore without getting an AI response at the top, where the misinformation rate is high enough that it's outright dangerous.

[Denarius]

one more bit of software made unreliable, unusable

just No. Dont.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just dont

Bad enough you need to use specific URLs or tags to stop ai answers, but what the fuck do you want ai in a browser for ?

To me, a non ai browser will be my default and preferred

[Dan 55]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Firefox has built-in translation and it's genuinely useful. Mozilla could hook up these APIs to it if they really wanted to:

- The Translator API, for on-demand translation.

- The Language Detector API, for detecting the language of input text.

But as for the rest it can get in the bin. Firefox could compete with Chrome by not supporting this nonsense.

[Jedit]

"Firefox could compete with Chrome by not supporting this nonsense"

I was going to say - promoting Firefox as a smooth and streamlined browsing experience with no AI bullshit would I think greatly increase their market share, and they wouldn't even have to do anything.

[ChrisElvidge]

Re: "Firefox could compete with Chrome by not supporting this nonsense"

But how many of the general public either know or care that "AI bullshit" is built into their browser?

Firefox as "smooth and streamlined"? Not since about v56 (IMHO).

[Rich 2]

Excellent

The Translator API, for on-demand translation.

- But most websites have the language already encoded in the page header

The Language Detectortt API, for detecting the language of input text.

- What’s the use case for this?

The Summarizer API, for summarizing text.

- You could just read the article. Radical, I know

The Writer and Rewriter APIs (collectively known as the Writing Assistance APIs).

- For plagiarising someone else’s website?

The Prompt API, for sending natural language requests to Gemini Nano.

- Groan

The Proofreader API, for error correction, labelling, and explanation.

- Do you need this is a web browser? Sounds more like a word processor feature

[Andy The Hat]

Re: Excellent

So many things I don't want or need but will suck my data into an LLM somewhere on planet Google.

[Anonymous Coward]

No AI in Mozilla's browser? Count me in.

[Helcat]

Yup: That's where they'd do best considering Edge and Chrome are moving/moved to AI integration. Not seen anything on what Safari's doing, but there's a fair few of us who don't want to risk AI hallucinations tainting search results or messing up translations or just generally making the internet a place to avoid.

So AI free would be a desirable feature for many of us.

However, AI being bolted in to the various websites out there, and in particular with search engines (Google being example A) does make things hit and miss in avoiding the Dumbot AI. More so if the site doesn't declare they're using AI, and they won't if people start avoiding AI integrated sites.

Which then gives Mozilla a wonderful opportunity: AI Detected! If it could spot and alert users to the use of AI on a website... that could be a huge selling point for Firefox!

[Anonymous Coward]

Browser wars?

Sorry, but while I agree with the argument on principle, Firefox is kept alive as a token defense against monopoly lawsuits, not because it is still contending in the browser wars.

So Mozilla arguing against its de facto funding source is a bit dubious, does anyone expect Google to listen, or is this just for show?

Unless unnamed superpowers step in and break up the monopoly, there is no real choice in browser usage, we're back in the IE7+ optimized days.

I keep a clean Chromium around just for those sites that die if you have any privacy plugins or a browser that isn't Chrome.

Not to speak of services like Now who go one step further, and now block Linux tout court, just 'cause.

Google will add these APIs, just like they did what they wanted in the whole v3 plugin debate, because they can, and they decide it makes money for them, and without effective competition there's no market force to discourage them.

(disclaimer: I use firefox most of the time, nothing against it, but I'd wish there was actual competition, not a de facto monopoly).

[tiggity]

mmmm

What dev in their right mind would muse these anyway?

Google have a history of killing products / services at short notice.

Or, if they do keep them, might start charging people for API use

Plenty of cheap & cheerful device users might be excluded on hardware requirements (and quite how a browser can test if someone has unmetered / unlimited data ...?)

.. From the "AI" API pages

Operating system: Windows 10 or 11; macOS 13+ (Ventura and onwards); or Linux. Chrome for Android, iOS, and ChromeOS are not yet supported by our APIs backed by Gemini Nano.

Storage: At least 22 GB on the volume that contains your Chrome profile.

GPU: Strictly more than 4 GB of VRAM.

Network: Unlimited data or an unmetered connection.

[PRR]

Re: mmmm

> might be excluded on hardware requirements (and quite how a browser can test if someone has unmetered / unlimited data ...?)

I think they mean: If you don't have infinite data, we won't listen to your whining and crying.

i.e.: I complain their service sucks. They ask me to check this list. If I fail on any point, then sod-off, we do not care about you.

[IGotOut]

Gemini is dog shit

I did a search on myself to see what's out there, just using my name and village

Now I do some t-shirt designs and some other bits and bobs, but nothing major and only brings in beer money.

However according to the heap of shit that is AI, I'm a freelance designer (I'm not) that has done illustrations and design works for Sony Pictures, Apple and LEGO. I also reviewed a pub in my local town.

Well at least it got the last part right.

[DS999]

Why does it have to be built in?

Support extensions/selections for that kind of stuff, then people can choose which AI they want doing it or none at all.

Heck they get Google to pay them to be the default search, maybe they get OpenAI to pay them for being Firefox's default AI? If the Google payments go away based on the antitrust suit another deep pocketed company willing to pay them would come in handy. And no one here should complain about such a deal any more than they complain about the Google deal. It would just be a default, as with search you could choose another or choose the 'off' switch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Google thievery of content will not stop. The horse is not even on the planet still.