Linux Foundation tries to play peacemaker in ongoing WordPress scuffle

The Linux Foundation on Friday introduced a new method to distribute WordPress updates and plugins that's not controlled by any one party, in a bid to "stabilize the WordPress ecosystem" after months of infighting. The FAIR Package Manager project is a response to the legal brawl that erupted last year, pitting WordPress co- …

[cd]

Classic Press is a viable fork that the Reg ignores (despite Situation using WP itself in one of its spinoffs and therefore having a perfect opportunity to report on CP firsthand).

It started with using 4.9, the last WP version before Gutenberg, now uses current versions with that removed.

It uses WP plugins.

The community hired its own devs, has its own forum. Far as I kniw, it doesn't sell hosting, but I haven't delved.

While it's fashionable around here to dismiss people who use WP, it's been around a long time and some now have decades of personal IP on their site.

At the time (2003?) that Carthik made his post about its beginnings, and switching to it, the other big choice was Movable Type, which was not run well.

Matt possibly had issues back then, his site's subtitle was Unlucky at Cards, which I thought rang weird, success tends to magnify quirks.

I see Classic Press as the way out. It's straightforward, uses the same bones.

If someone wants to put down their dismissively ironic waving hand and provide a way out that's better, my gantlet is hereby thrown down.

Until then, CP works and it converts a WP site to CP with a plugin and a few minutes, bye Matt.

[DrewPH]

I tried CP. Too many compatibility issues with plugins that shouldn't have had compatibility issues. It instantly reduced my viable plugin choices from millions to a few hundred (a list which didn't include my preferred ones).

And the CP community or team or whatever you want to call them seemed to be the worst kind of committee: lots of tough talk but no-one willing to lead.

So I still use WP. I download the core and plugins that I need, I disable the bits of core that I don't like, and I ignore all the drama.

[cd]

I agree with some of that; I don't get along with either WP or CP people and don't care about it.

I want a tool. Not joining the Hammer Assoc. because I want to pound nails.

Have several sites running CP converted from WP with no problems, but I had stopped upgrading after nicht-so-Gutenberg arose and the mental health concerns became more obvious, so my favored plugins are sometimes old and I kept my own repository, so I can use CPs plugin Upload feature to add the ones I like. Some of us have backups for some inexplicable reason or reasons.

At some point I'll either quit or move on, CP allows some procrastination.

So far everything else I've tried looks worse. All those plugins, self-updating, large enough community to populate -cons all over the globe, etc. make it hard to beat.

The one Molly White wrote for her own sites looks interesting and simple, but I haven't tried it.

[Zibob]

Two outcomes

1. See XKCD - Standards,

2. Linux foundation will somehow be pulled into the/a lawsuit with WordPress

[BinkyTheMagicPaperclip]

Doomed; Mullenweng wants control and money

Chance of the Linux Foundation's proposal succeeding : 0%.

Mullenweng typifies a certain subset of Linux companies who wail when other companies have the temerity to *be better at business than them*. But why can't they just be given money to do what they want because they wrote some code? (without all the hard parts, and without competing).

An independent third party actively removes power from Mullenweng, and reduces any leverage he thinks he has on other companies contributing to 'his' project. It's unlikely to work without a substantial carrot for Mullenweng.

[Adair]

Re: Doomed; Mullenweng wants control and money

Two things:

1. in principle 'Open Source' indicates the code doesn't 'belong' to anyone, and

2. there is always the option to stick a fork in it and simply flow around the obstruction.

[BinkyTheMagicPaperclip]

Re: Doomed; Mullenweng wants control and money

That attitude works right up until the point that the code that doesn't belong to anyone, driven mostly by one company, finds a larger company (a cloud provider is the most prominent example) taking their code, making improvements they are not obliged to contribute back (because it's internal) and/or just plain out competing them through better/more predatory business acumen and administration. Then suddenly it becomes 'we deserve money because we made an effort' because that is their main source of income.

As I understand it there are already WordPress ports, and even Mullenweng admits the competitor here is contributing to the project, the sticking point is that he doesn't think it's contributing enough code or money. Hosting the plugins has a cost and is tied to the Wordpress domain, so there's a dependency here. Wordpress still has a very large number of customers and is the main code contributor, so whatever solution is devised needs their co-operation or to slowly decline their business and become a main code contributor until it becomes a non issue.

Your 'simply' is doing a huge amount of heavy lifting.

[Adair]

Re: Doomed; Mullenweng wants control and money

You're right, it's only a question of the point at which enough people have had enough of the self-serving game playing and take drastic action, a la 'OpenOffice' => 'LibreOffice'.

Of course, that point may never be reached, or there may never be sufficient people with the capacity to make the fork, but that is simply the reality of 'open source' code. Just as the 'proprietary/hidden-code' model has it's plusses and minuses, so does 'open source'.

There's no point us whining when what we have knowingly 'bought into' occasionally turns and bites us.

Evolution is highly effective, but no one ever suggests it's quick, or always successful.

[Scotech]

Re: Doomed; Mullenweng wants control and money

My thoughts exactly. If he's true to form, I'd expect Matt to make life difficult for people using this and find any way he can to break it, repeatedly.

[Fazal Majid]

There are no good guys in Automattic vs WP-Engine

I moved from WP to Hugo almost a decade ago and I don't have a dog in this fight. One of my former employers used WP-Engine and I was to say the least not impressed.

Just because Mullenweg's actions are peevish and infantile does not mean WP-Engine is in the right.

Sadly, your prognostic is likely correct, as Automattic controls the repository, will ban the FAIR installer (unless forced to reverse itself by European antitrust authorities, US FTC being of course completely neutered and useless), and through the power of defaults the vast majority of WP users will never hear of it.

[graemep]

Re: Doomed; Mullenweng wants control and money

> Mullenweng typifies a certain subset of Linux companies

How is Wordpress a "Linux company"? I have a wordpress install running on FreeBSD, and you can run it on Windows.

> An independent third party actively removes power from Mullenweng, and reduces any leverage he thinks he has on other companies contributing to 'his' project. It's unlikely to work without a substantial carrot for Mullenweng.

Of course he will not want it to work, but the point is he cannot stop it.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a YouTube video of the announcement

There is a video of the announcement that happened during the AltCtrl Org side event in Basel during WordCamp EU. https://www.youtube.com/live/IOsOAsbD1gA?si=Rv501XNRbnZll9TW

[botfap]

Re: There is a YouTube video of the announcement

Please dont post links with tracking codes. https://www.youtube.com/live/IOsOAsbD1gA is more than adequate

Thanks for the link

[Fonant]

Re: There is a YouTube video of the announcement

Link to the actual announcement:

https://www.youtube.com/live/IOsOAsbD1gA?t=9402

(you can post some HTML to this forum, and YouTube links can include start seconds :))

[OxB@D 833F]

Without knowing specifics there's an imbalance if a founding contributor owns rights to brand name and controls master source branch but fails to monetize significantly while large hosting providers don't necessarily contribute monetarily or through source updates but make significant earnings hosting blogs & websites. You'd think brand owner would offer best managed hosting product, but that isn't necessarily true.

[Fazal Majid]

The surprising thing is Amazon didn't get there first

Their operational excellence is unmatched.

[wolfetone]

Had a conversation with a friend about WordPress recently. It led me on to look at alternatives for projects I've got coming up. I used to use OctoberCMS but they've moved from being free to being behind a paywall if you want updates (which personally I think is a dick move). Various other CMS exist out there, but they all do one thing really good (manage the content) but then lack other required features which are a requirement now in 2025. Things like anti-spam comments, GA integration etc. Some will obviously provide this via a plugin, but then thats another software project to make sure is up to date.

WordPress does nail all of this fairly well now. You can get a plugin for pretty much everything, and it can update itself fairly well too.

In the end for me, I thought for a laugh and an exploration in technical feasibility, I would make my own CMS but base it on Mark Down (.md) files. Each page, each bit of content, doesn't live on a database. It's contained within a folder and it's managed like you would manage sites of old. Everything inside a directory. Integration with Umami for analytics, anti-spam comments projection, that's all I need.

My first website with it is a week away from release. Whether I put it out as a public project I'm not sure yet because, well I don't know if I want people to use it. It's very much a me project, it's built to suit me. Someone who hasn't the appetite or inclination to suffer the over bloated bullshido that all of these Web 3.0 bros tell me is "the future" or "the best user experience".

And I have to thank Mullenwanker for this. If it weren't for him being a silly little tip pot dictator, I'd have never had that conversation with my mate, and I'd have never explored new worlds.

So a pint of piss for Mullenwanker. Enjoy it, dickhead.

[tamegeek42]

Flat file CMS

If you did this out of necessity rather than just the pure joy of it, maybe you want to take a look at Grav CMS. If you are doing this for the pure joy of it, please do carry on; I am guilty of indulging in similarly futile but immensely fun projects.

[wolfetone]

Re: Flat file CMS

I only did it out of wonderment really, whether it was possible and how different something would be if it worked in a flat file format. I wanted to be able to create a site like I used to with just HTML and folders, but still with some control of content that didn't require an FTP client.

It's also been done like you've pointed out, but sometimes it's nice just to see what CMS I could do to suit me and me only.