Ukraine strikes Russian bomber-maker with hack attack Following a daring drone attack on Russian airfields, Ukrainian military intelligence has reportedly also hacked the servers of Tupolev, the Kremlin's strategic bomber maker. Local media reports that the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine managed to exfiltrate over 4.4GB of data from Tupolev's servers, including official …
only nazi I can see is putin, and you supporting nazi's, so guess what that makes you!
The playground is thataway---->
But never mind that noise you heard, It's just the nazis under your bed, in your closet, in your head. So sleep with one eye open, gripping your pillow tight because you seem to be seeing nazis everywhere.
Alternatively, given this was one of Putin's originally stated objectives for the SMO, denazification would be a requirement for EU accession, or just a generally good thing for a civilised nation.. Why hasn't Ukraine done anything, other than deny it? I'm fairly certain councils in the UK would take a dim view of erecting statues to Oswald Mosely, renaming streets or stadiums. Germany would also take a dim view of doing the same for Himmler etc. Our police regularly arrest and charge nazis & neo-nazis..
So why not Ukraine? Zelensky has the power to pass a law making it illegal to display or glorify that stuff, and will have to if Ukraine wants to join the EU & civil society. He's allegedly Jewish, so that should also motivate him. And yet he does nothing, other than deny Ukraine has a rather obvious neo-nazi problem. Then again, useful idiots like Starmer seem to have dropped the OUN & Baderites 'slava' slogan and I've not seen as many of the OUN's red & black flags lately.. But that might just mean photo editors have gotten more effective at erasing objectionable & abhorent (and probably illegal) content rather than Ukraine's Banderite problem having gone away.
>” I'm fairly certain councils in the UK would take a dim view of erecting statues to Oswald Mosely, renaming streets or stadiums.”
In the past I would agree, given the rise of Trump and his admirers on this side of the pond and the groups UKIP/Reform have attracted, I would not be so sure that will continue to be the case, other than many of the new generation will probably ask: Mosley who?
Well Starmer is already channelling Enoch Powell race baiting, so I'm sure blue labour will be extolling the popularity amongst hero voters of organising black and/or red shirt patriot patrols....
Though maybe Starmer might yet adopt the Norsefire logo from V for Vendetta, I wouldn't be at all shocked to hear him say "England prevails " or maybe "Britannia Prevails", "Strength through unity, unity through faith"
-Given blue labour attitude that the loss of church control of everyday life and social morals was a terrible terrible thing that needs reversed and that 1956 or thereabouts is where it all started going very very wrong - well in the eyes of blue labour that is.....
2015 "Azov battalion, a volunteer fighting unit known for the neo-Nazi views" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/25/mariupol-next-in-the-sights-of-pro-russia-rebels-in-eastern-ukraine
2016 "fascist Azov Battalion" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/06/foreign-born-fascists-radicalise-uk-far-right-movement
2017 ". "far-right Azov militia" "Is Azov really a modern Hitler Youth organisation" https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2017/sep/04/i-want-to-bring-up-a-warrior-ukraines-far-right-childrens-camp-video
2018 "the Azov battalion, a notorious Ukrainian fascist militia" "Azov battalion, is working with representatives of UK-based far-right groups, including the proscribed terror organisation National Action and a London-based Polish ultra-nationalist group, to recruit activists to travel to Ukraine" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/02/neo-nazi-groups-recruit-britons-to-fight-in-ukraine
2019 "Azov battalion, a Ukrainian ultra-right paramilitary group" "ultranationalists now" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/11/ultranationalism-in-ukraine-a-photo-essay
2019 "Azov" is just "Ukraine’s Azov Battalion". https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/nov/27/rams-revival-and-the-ongoing-struggle-against-mmas-far-right-fight-clubs
2019 "Azov exists in the cached search result but not the page" " Azov Battalion in Kyiv. Facebook condemned for hosting neo-Nazi network with UK links." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/14/how-far-right-uses-video-games-tech-lure-radicalise-teenage-recruits-white-supremacists
2020 - a regression "Azov Battalion, a neo-Nazi paramilitary force," "two neo-Nazi extremist movements operating from Ukraine: Azov Battalion and Misanthropic Division." which was disappeared from 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/nov/22/facebook-condemned-for-hosting-neo-nazi-network-with-uk-links
2022 "Azov battalion", "a far-right nationalist militia group". https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify
2014 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis
Notice how people can Spell Kiev correctly in 2014 - Shows the impact of austerity or something.
""But Putin's not even a Russian. Putin's a Jew."
Dmitry claimed not to be a Nazi, but waxed lyrical about Adolf Hitler as a military leader, and believes the Holocaust never happened. Not everyone in the Azov battalion thinks like Dmitry, but after speaking with dozens of its fighters and embedding on several missions during the past week in and around the strategic port city of Mariupol, the Guardian found many of them to have disturbing political views, and almost all to be intent on "bringing the fight to Kiev" when the war in the east is over.
The battalion's symbol is reminiscent of the Nazi Wolfsangel, though the battalion claims it is in fact meant to be the letters N and I crossed over each other, standing for "national idea". Many of its members have links with neo-Nazi groups, and even those who laughed off the idea that they are neo-Nazis did not give the most convincing denials.
"Of course not, it's all made up, there are just a lot of people who are interested in Nordic mythology," said one fighter when asked if there were neo-Nazis in the battalion. When asked what his own political views were, however, he said "national socialist". As for the swastika tattoos on at least one man seen at the Azov base, "the swastika has nothing to do with the Nazis, it was an ancient sun symbol," he claimed.
Hardly. 3 Tu95s damaged, repairable. A50s - no engines, ie scrap - destroyed. Seems the CIA sat-pix were old. So for that MI6/CIA/SBU jaunt, Russia now rains down real hell on the Nazis.
Some useful aircraft were damaged and destroyed. The first FPV video released showed burning Tu-95s. Various people pointed out that aircraft don't tend to burn unless they carried some fuel. If they weren't carrying fuel, they weren't flight ready (or recent) and the A-50 videos showed that aircraft having no engines. Also a bit curious why the drone was humping the radome rather than the wing roots, but that may have been an assumption that the radome would be harder to replace.
But Ukraine also showed a pic of their SBU general looking at a nice glossy of an airfield with some red Xs. This operation was apparently 18months in the planning, satellites pass over the airfields probably every day. So Ukraine should have known which aircraft had moved in that 18months, and which were just parked in the boneyard and being cannibalised for parts. So why Ukraine might have wasted drones on aircraft that weren't operational. If the objective was to reduce the threat of being bombed, the active aircraft should have been the priority. Satellite imagery has shown they did have some success, ie burned aircraft, but not as many as originally claimed.
That's also one of those genie issues. Ukraine's demonstrated how to launch cheap attacks against airfields. Enemies now know this. It's long been known that drones are a threat to airports, so now we have to probably try harder to defend our own aircraft & airfields against this type of threat. One possibility might be to use jammers, and perhaps that's why the attack wasn't as successful as hoped, or claimed, ie Russia protected their active aircraft, but didn't bother with their boneyards.
Perun put out a nice summary of the damage evidence yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPXs2wDv4Kc&t=1803s
12 confirmed destroyed (some not only fuelled but armed with cruise missiles as if ready to take-off)
3 confirmed damaged (clear holes punched in fuselages but impossible to assess internal damage)
Then there's a lot of FPV shots of drones flying into aircraft but no follow-up footage, which could easily boost the destroyed/damage count a lot but likely still a long way short of Ukraine's claimed 41 (which, in any case I think it's safe to say is a very optimistic ceiling on the real number). Cloud-cover hampered satellite imagery after the attack. I would bet even Putin is struggling to get truly accurate numbers, especially with all the 'repairability' salve his lackeys are offering up.
Also discusses the very interesting fact of Tu-160s being completely left alone, which makes the inactive A-50 rotodome attacks extra interesting.
What about these Chinese statelite images?
https://x.com/lobsterlarryliu/status/1929553048143085807
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3313436/how-ukraines-operation-spiders-web-attack-russia-holds-important-lessons-china
This article by Rueters uses commerical satelite images (Planet Labs) https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/satellite-imagery-shows-ukraine-attack-destroyed-damaged-russian-bombers-2025-06-03/
This article by the opposition web site has links to more commercial satellite images and various Russian pro-war bloggers https://theins.ru/en/news/281769
In the 21st century there are multiple sources of satellite images from multiple countries.
Please provide evidence for your claims.
" 3 Tu95s damaged, repairable."
Really? Almost 90% of the parts used in those are either Western, Chinese or Ukrainan imports. In theory they are repairable, but obtaining the parts will take a very long time and meanwhile they won't fly.
Basically same as scrap metal until repaired, perhaps somewhere in the potential future.
Really? Almost 90% of the parts used in those are either Western, Chinese or Ukrainan imports. In theory they are repairable, but obtaining the parts will take a very long time and meanwhile they won't fly.
Citation needed. Especially as the footage released showed drones aiming for the wing roots. Which is sensible given that's where the fuel and structural elements are. But not so much of the avionics. So fixing damage might need a machine shop, which Russia has. But then Russia had also moved production from Ukraine post-1991 for things like helicopter turbines so it didn't have to rely on Ukraine. But this is one of the biggest problems nafobots have, ie their detachment from reality and realising that Russian industry is actually very capable. They had been investing, while the West has been running industry and manufacturing into the ground.
Various 'leaders' have been talking about reversing policy and turning the EU & UK into arsenals of 'democracy', but it's too little, too late. If Russia can produce more tanks, aircraft and ammunition than it's losing or using than we can funnel into Ukraine, then Russia wins.
You mean Powerpointski. It's a bit unlikely Tupolev would be using Microsoft products so will probably not be using Microsoft's famed Bloat-o-Matic™ file formats.
4.4G of graphics light files could be 10's of thousands of intelligence rich files (and probably a lot of junk too).
It's probable the technical drawings and any sensitive defence stuff was on an non-internet facing server, assuming the systems were set up by with somebody with a functioning brain. (Not always certain).
It's a bit unlikely Tupolev would be using Microsoft products
In a similar vein, I was surprised to learn from a mechanical engineer friend of mine working at Boeing, that Boeing extensively uses the Autocad-on-steroids software, "Catia". Catia is written by Avions Marcel Dassault, one of the members of the Airbus consortium, and major Boeing competitor.
The possibilities for industrial espionage here are spectacular.
> surprised to learn ...., that Boeing extensively uses the Autocad-on-steroids software ...written by .... one of the members of the Airbus consortium, and major Boeing competitor.
What goes around comes around. In the 1980s many industries used BoeingCalc spreadsheet which was something less and much more than Lotus 1-2-3. (Would run on a mainframe, could chew huge spreadsheets in virtual memory, but in many cases slower than 1-2-3.) There used to be other US airframe makers, and if they didn't use BoeingCalc surely the mutual suppliers did. Boeing tried to spin it out but didn't.
CATIA has been the go to Aerospace CAD software for the last 30+ years (I've been using it since at least 2002), in various guises.
Everyone in Aerospace uses it. And yes it is owned by Dassault, but that hasnt made Dassault the world leader in Aerospace, so I think we can be safe there are no shenanigans on the go...
Also, unless I'm very much mistaken Dassault are not a member of the Airbus consortium. They occasionally have strategic partnerships, as Airbus does with other Aerospace firms from time to time, but they are not actually a member of the Consortium.
"Also, unless I'm very much mistaken Dassault are not a member of the Airbus consortium."
Dassault is the original developer, but software (Catia) was moved into Dassault Systems already in the 80s and that's not part of Airbus, but a private company.
Dassault avionics is part of Airbus now, but it hasn't had anything to do with Catia since it moved.
"Catia is written by Avions Marcel Dassault, one of the members of the Airbus consortium,"
False: In 1977 there was no such thing as Airbus consortium and Catia moved to Dassault Systèmes already in early 80s, totally different company. One half being true is not enough.
Dassault Avions is now partially a part of Airbus, that's true, but they don't make software, they make aeroplanes. And that fusion happened in 1998 when "Airbus" was still Aérospatiale-Matra, later (with more fusions) EADS and even later (and even more fusions) Airbus.
But Catia actually works. And handles aeroplane-sized projects.
Also it's an *ancient* software, from 1980s. Basically no-one designs aeroplanes without it as it's a proper 3D software. Autocad and other 2.5D CADs are in the toy software department for this purpose.
Don't forget that the USSR hasn't existed in 34 years, and I've seen it written elsewhere that Russia lost the capability to manufacture the bombers that were destroyed after the fall of the USSR.
Despite Putin's ambitions to rebuild the Russian Empire by force, their technology and infrastructure is largely very much out of date, and Putin maintains his control through force projection, threat, bluster, espionage, and the effects of throwing large amounts of money at the right people to compromise them. This is amply demonstrated by the fact that Putin's "limited military engagement that will last 2 days" is still going on 3 years later, and he utterly failed in his day one goals, of toppling Ukraine's legitimate government, fully expecting Zelenskiy to have run away, or to have fallen foul of assassination attempts. Have we forgotten the images of the failed land assault on Kyiv, launched from Belarus? The tanks all confidently rolling along the main road in a nice long line, and then unexpectedly being on fire?
As for Russia's space technology - the Soyuz capsule has been around for over half a century; the basic technology of putting a sealed capsule on top of a big rocket hasn't changed in that time, and whilst I'm sure Russia have made improvements over the initial capsule from 1967, you're fooling yourself if you think that those ones they're launching now are going to be anything remotely brand-spanking new.
The Russians also lost the Ukrainians who designed and built most of their heavy engineering, eg Antonov etc.
Ironic the more Russia fights these wars, the more they lose their best minds. There must be hardly anyone who would know how to build those planes or missiles, which would also explain why they keep failing to launch their Satans.
the USSR beat America in the space race in every detail except landing on the Moon
I've beat Usain Bolt in every 100m race I've run. He probably would have done better if he was present...
The USA had plenty of space firsts, but the USSR firsts made for great Red Scare propaganda:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Space_Race
Er, no - Just LEO missions used the Soyez. For lunar and interplanetary missions they mainly used the Molniya stacks.
Let's see: First satellite. First living creature to orbit, First lunar fly-by, First rocket engine restart in Earth orbit, First spacecraft to leave Earth's orbit, First spacecraft on an escape trajectory from Earth, First spacecraft in heliocentric orbit, First three-axis stabilized spacecraft, First photos of far side of the Moon and that was all before 1960, Gagarin was 1961.
None of them were "bullshit" and there were even more firsts in the following decade.
Certainly the USA did a lot of exceptional work but dismissing the work of the USSR is just American exceptionalism.
M was not human rated.
> First spacecraft on an escape trajectory from Earth, First spacecraft in heliocentric orbit, First three-axis stabilized spacecraft, First photos of far side of the Moon and that was all before 1960, Gagarin was 1961.
First spacecraft to fly over Africa, first to fly over the indian ocean, first to fly 2 1/2 times over the south pole.
Major US space firsts:
* First communications satellite
* First satellite to transmit television images
* First reusable piloted spacecraft
* First successful Mars flyby
* First communications satellite in geosynchronous orbit
* First communications satellite in geostationary orbit
* First satellite-based search and rescue system
* First rendezvous of manned spacecraft
* First return to Earth after orbiting the Moon
* First spacecraft to orbit Mars
* First spacecraft sent on escape trajectory away from the Sun
* First mission to enter the asteroid belt and leave inner Solar System
* First Jupiter flyby
* First Mercury flyby
* First Saturn flyby
* First Neptune flyby
The early USSR Luna probes were indeed very successful, but the N1 rockets required to take a manned payload to the moon never had a single successful launch. So claiming that the USSR were ahead in every detail other than a successful manned landing is exaggerating the situation beyond any plausibility.
The USSR were very successful in small probes, but entirely unsuccessful in scaling up beyond that.
Primitive maybe, but robust. They got multiple landers on to the surface of Venus, something the USA never even attempted.
Space engineering seldom uses the latest generation of electronic components because the reliability is unknown, they like to use components that have been around for a few years so the deterioration characteristics are well understood.
If you think Russia is still working with components from the 1970's you really should get out a bit and look beyond your cosy American bubble.
Wow! I'm the one making assumptions?
I suggest you look at my posting history to see my opinions about Russia as it is under Putin. There's a long post about how Putin & the FSB was responsible the 1999 apartment bombings and a few about how his personal wealth was on average increasing every day by more than an average Russian could earn in his or her lifetime. Writing about either of those in Russia would quite likely earn me a free holiday in Siberia or a trip through an upstairs window.
OK you didn't "mention" the USA program but at the time we are discussing there was only USSR & USA in space so if you are dissing the USSR program you can only be referring to the USA program - not an assumption but a deduction.
The surface pressure on Venus is about the same as ocean pressure at 1km or 93 times Earth surface pressure with temperatures ranging from 453 to 473°C. Building anything space rated to survive long enough to even make it through the sulphuric acid clouds to the surface is a serious technological achievement. Why the fuck would anybody want to make a rover on the first Venus landing, that would be moronic - you need to learn about the surface before you start to think about stuff like that. Anyway what's the point? Given the expected life span of any machine on the Venusian surface a rover would be pointless.
The thing is I have not dismissed the USA program, I said they did excellent work but so did the soviets, but you are dismissing the soviet work just because you cant face the fact that they were just as competent as the US.
>” but you are dismissing the soviet work just because you cant face the fact that they were just as competent as the US.”
This is an interesting point.
Whilst there is plenty of evidence individual Russian engineers and scientists were and are just as good as their American cousins, the regime under which they work, more so in he Cold War USSR days, did not really support them. Hence why the Tupolev Tu-144 was inferior to Concorde. I suspect the Soviet space programme similarly suffered. Interesting, prior to Putin’s special military operation, Roscosmos achieved a high level of reliability and was earning money by putting western satellites into orbit and servicing the ISS.
I didn't mention Sputnik.
Do you have the slightest idea of how technology and science works? It seems not.
Sputnik was a proof of concept. Until then nobody was 100% certain a object could be put into a stable orbit and stay there. So if you are trying out one thing the last thing anybody needed was to bog the craft down with extra crap. Anyway there was no suitable network of ground stations to do anything more than pick up the "beeps" and nobody was going to waste time, effort and money building ground stations before they've proved that artificial satellites would stay up there.
Please stop grasping at ridiculous straws, it makes you look stupid. Sputnik was a groundbreaking achievement acknowledged as such by everybody on both sides of the Iron Curtain at the time.
Everything that the USSR ever did was bad, especially if it demonstrates Ukrainian/Russians and various other of the ethnic groups working together - they had seven leaders of the USSR from Stalin to Yeltsin.
Amazingly all the bad things that happened in country X by bad ruler Y are never the fault of Y or the people who share his nationality, it's the Evil Russians(4/7), even when the people in Charge are Georgian(1/7) or Ukrainian (2/7)
The USSR is not a new example of Russian rule. The Russian empire, USSR and modern Russia are not different entities with a different philophsy. THey are a continuation of the same ruling philosophy.
You can change the flag, name of the nation or the rulter, but its still the same.
Putin has ruled for over 20 years just like a Tsar. They are even waving the old empire, USSR flags for fuck sake. The Russian people know its all the same only idiots think that a name change changes anything.
DJO: Do you have the slightest idea of how technology and science works? It seems not.
cow: Bravo, i made a statement about the functionality of SPutnik twice and you cant dispute a single fact that I made, so yu fall back to being a 5 yo and calling me names.
DJO: Sputnik was a proof of concept. Until then nobody was 100% certain a object could be put into a stable orbit and stay there
cow: Yes but it shows the very basic capabilities of the Russians.
DJO: Anyway there was no suitable network of ground stations to do anything more than pick up the "beeps" and nobody was going to waste time, effort and money building ground stations before they've proved that artificial satellites would stay up there.
cow: I will explain.
The Sputnik beeper was an example of REPUPORSED Soviet electronics. THey didnt have anything BETTER to take a copy of. THey didnt spend months or years inventing all the components.
THat was the best they had.
Way to confirm what I said.
Sputnik was basic, sure but that was all that was necessary for the job. It would have been stupid to fill it with superfluous technology, that would just mean there's more to go wrong.
Of course they used established electronics, everybody sending stuff into space uses established electronics, nobody would be stupid enough to send unproven electronics into space - it just means there is more to go wrong. As I mentioned in an earlier post, space missions use proven electronics with known degradation profiles.
It was not the "best they had" it was what was appropriate for the mission.
I don't dispute what you said, I say what you said was ridiculous as extending the mission objectives would serve no purpose and could have jeopardised the entire mission.
DJO: Of course they used established electronics, everybody sending stuff into space uses established electronics, nobody would be stupid enough to send unproven electronics into space - it just means there is more to go wrong. As I mentioned in an earlier post, space missions use proven electronics with known degradation profiles.
Cow: This is total bunk.
Each new space vehicle in its own way is very much a new device. SpaceX today is constnatly reiterating and changing major physical and electronic components.
Back in the 60s, Apollo introduced very advanced computers, while the Russians were basically manual.
No you are 100% wrong except for that now with relatively cheap launches operators can afford to take more risk but in the early days nobody would do that unless they had no alternative.
The Apollo guidance computer, you mean the one that failed with a 1202 error when 11 was trying to land so Armstrong had to land manually?
Give up before you make any more idiotic comments, the USSR interplanetary probes had guidance systems that worked a treat.
Stop only considering manned missions, they were mainly willy waving. Most of the science was, is and always will be done with unmanned craft.
The apollo computer did not fail, sure it had a mistake, but overall it was a major success. Its a major contribution to why Apollo was so succcessful.
Nothing that big is 100% perfect, you are setting standards that the Russians never got closed.
Apollo goto the moon and returned 8ish times, the N1 rocket barely flew for 1. minute an failed 4 times. A major reason why the N1 failed was because it didnt have a sophisticated cmputer to control the individual 30 rockets to maintain flight orientation so when one "failed" it couldnt balance things out so it blew up.
The apollo computer did not fail, sure it had a mistake
A computer making a mistake is a failure.
So if the American system failed it's just because nothing is 100% perfect but if a soviet system failed it's because they are ignorant savages.
Look just admit it, both the USA and the USSR did excellent work in the opening decades of the space race. Both fucked up from time to time and both excelled from time to time. And most importantly both sides gave the other full credit for the work they did, not demeaning them for ideological reasons. Gagarin (Юрий Гагарин) was celebrated in the west and Armstrong was celebrated in the east.
I am hav enot called either side a name, i am simply making the observation taht the Russians were technologically backwards, and this was the prime reason for the limited success. They didnt make it to the moon because they couldnt build a bigger rocket bcause of funds and limited technology.
You can only rebild the R7 so many ways and they were never going to scale that up to N1 or Saturn size.
They didn't go to the Moon because there was no point, the Americans had got there and supplied the USSR with samples of Moon rock. The Moon missions were just willy waving propaganda, a marvellous achievement but there was little science performed that couldn't have been done by robotic probes.
The USA didn't go the Venus for the same reason, the USSR had got there and shared all the data with NASA.
The USSR applied a different paradigm to the USA, both were equally valid. The USSR just lacked the industrial might, their technicians and scientists were generally every bit as good as those NASA had. Incidentally the Energia stack was almost as big as the Saturn V.
Russia in the last 25 years is screwed but that's just because the leadership is corrupt and when the leadership is stealing all they can, every layer under them will also have their trotters in the trough, and under Trump America is going the same way. It's a shame, in the 70's the USA was both respected and regarded highly, not any longer, the most recent poll had the global opinion of the USA go negative for the first time ever. Reputation is easy to destroy, hard to earn.
Now you are being dishonest.
They TRIED with the N1 to make a vehicle to goto the moon but couldnt for reasons like cost.
RUssia has always been corrupt, as i previously mentioned thats the way the leadership works there. Tsars lived a disgusting luxurious lifestyle while the poor were hungry, Putin is no different, just the times on the calendar are different but the priority has always been the same.
The point wasn't to underestimate an opponent it was to correctly point out that Russia is unable to field a wholly new non Soviet aircraft design - their "stealth fighter" the Su-57 is vaporware and photos of the construction techniques being used are not confidence inspiring.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union the Chinese have leapfrogged and surpassed Russia in aircraft design, with the J-20 and the FC-31 being viewed by Western analysts as being just as capable as western aircraft and it could well come down to pilot skill if it ever goes hot with China.
Russia's *best" fighter is the Su-35, a modernised Soviet design the SU-27.
Putin Nationalising Tupolev, Sukhoi, Mikoyan, Yak into United Aircraft Corporation, has strangled progress, the relentless corruption, kleptomania, embezzlement etc has starved them of investment and stalinist central control has killed innovation entirely.
The T-14 Armata tank is the same issue, meant to be some kind of wunderwaffen but like all show and no go.
The Kuznetsov may never sail again, the 2 replacement electromagnetic launch carriers have been stagnant for over a decade, whereas China has gone from completing a Kuznetsov sister ship, building and launching an improved version from scratch to building, launching and commissioning an Emails Catapult the Type 003, with the Type 004 in development.
The only real teeth Russia has left is it's claimed 6000+ warheads and claimed functional ICBMs.
Which are a threat, however given the amount of bluster, exaggeration and downright lying from Russia, who knows how many warheads are launch capable and how many exist only on paper with the funds and / or materials having been diverted to line someone's pockets.......
The point wasn't to underestimate an opponent it was to correctly point out that Russia is unable to field a wholly new non Soviet aircraft design - their "stealth fighter" the Su-57 is vaporware and photos of the construction techniques being used are not confidence inspiring.
Russian AI, holographic and sound projection must be far in advance of ours given vaporware creating vaportrails at airshows and arms exhibitions. And have you ever seen an A-10 up close? Or <cough> a Tesla? The most advanced factories in the world can't quite get the hang of sorting out panel gaps. Plus as the Russia's pointed out, those were test aircraft, not serial production.
Russia's *best" fighter is the Su-35, a modernised Soviet design the SU-27.
Obviously good enough for government work. But one of the West's best, and most versatile aircraft is the good'ol F-15. Or even the F-16. Both Vietnam-era aircraft, but both like the Su-27 that was a newer design on account of it being a counter to the F-15, have all been extensively re-designed and modernised.
The Kuznetsov may never sail again, the 2 replacement electromagnetic launch carriers have been stagnant for over a decade, whereas China has gone from completing a Kuznetsov sister ship, building and launching an improved version from scratch to building, launching and commissioning an Emails Catapult the Type 003, with the Type 004 in development.
Yep, and thanks to sanctions, Russia, China, Iran, DPRK all now have closer development and technology sharing agreements. What a wonderful peace dividend our 'leaders' have given the world! Plus some fringe cases, like maybe the Houthis sharing their knowledg & experiences of attacking US carriers and other warships.
The Satan missiles are over 30 years old.
That article is total crap, i have no doubt Russian soldiers are stealing any household electronics they can get, but nobody is turning any parts of washing machines into missiles or planes or rockets.
Thats total bullshit.
No factory is building some chips today and sending some to Nintendo for the Switch 2 and Boeing for the MAX and Samsung for washing machines. Thats totally stupid.
Oh right you can spot that's bullshit because you understand something about electronics - but the rest of the bullshit is credible.
Can you point to the "Sensibles" who point out as you do correctly that it's completely ludicrous as an idea that Washing Machines and Militarism have any connection except for laundry.
Because they repeat it, just like all the other shite.
Please tell me what part of a random washing machine is potentially useful for a missile ?
Im sure you could reuse a few washers or screws, but im asking about electronic components.
I highly doubt Russia is low on capacitors and the only source they could find is washing machines.
Waiting to listen.
WHere does that article list any components within a washing machine by name or part number and how it could it be repurposed.
It doesnt.
Its just high level wishiful thinking from someone who wouldnt know a single thing about how to build a rocket or flght computer.
I have news for you, electronics are not all the same, you just dont pretend tomorrow that they can do anything.
So give me an example of a single component from any washing machine ?
Even better go open up your washing machine and build a mobile phone from it.
The Russians YESTERDAY with their new jets like the SUPERJET had to goto Western suppliers for the glass screen, flght computers and supproting electronics because they they accepted the selected Western parts are significantly better than their own.
Why didnt they build their cockpits for the super jet from washing machines back then instead of paying MILLIONS for Honeywell etc ?
Reusing washing machine parts in tech is not unheard of.
Graeme Obree Famously reused the drum bearings in one of his bikes, because of their high quality.
Also the article notes it’s the semiconductors that are being reused. Given some washing machines are internet capable, that means there are some quite capable parts in them.
I suspect if we do go to war, Russia (and Ukraine) have a head start in building munitions once you can no longer get supplies of the Mil spec. parts. Our “superior” technology will mean little at this point.
I'm a software bod, so I don't frankly have any standing to argue.
Please can you explain how that could work.
They have advanced manufacturing which is ahead of the US demonstrating both Hypersonic and special fancy metal engineering with the oreshnik.
A missile is a fancy firework - so fuel - something to burn, something to make it burn. at which point we are suggesting they are lacking in ASIC production capacity for guidance and control?
What part of a washing machine is going to be useful, given they almost certainly have an entire component to ASIC supply chain entirely within Russia ? (Edit. No it appears china is a big supplier 70%) but they do make a lot themselves. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/russias-achieves-big-breakthrough-in-microchip/
It still seems like bullshit tbh.
Exactly.
Have to agree, the people making comments here have no idea how a drone works. Go look at the ARDUCOPTER project, and the boards they sell to support the software flying planes and quadcopters.
There are many specialist parts on the board so the software knows where it is in space, its orientation and more. NONE of those sensors are going to be. on a washing machine.
Well, given we only have the Express report of a Ukrainian inspection of the bits, which doesn’t identify the exact semiconductors being found, nor do we have much information on the sophistication of the missile.
There are two options, the first, which is what would seem to be way people are wanting us to read it, is the Russians are breaking washing machines to salvage parts, the second is as you intimate, Russia is using the same (new) semiconductor components in washing machines and missiles, because they are good enough for single usage.
Perhaps this something we should be investigating, namely ways of both bringing the cost down and facilitating volume manufacturing under war conditions.
Lets think about WHO wrote the report.
It was written by a reporter, a person who cannot possibly be an expert on every technical story that they report. They know abotu as much about drones as your local bus driver or the guy at the petrol station, aka BASICALLY NOTHING.
Roland6: Russia is using the same (new) semiconductor components in washing machines and missiles, because they are good enough for single usage.
cow: Building a flight controller is a precise process.
So please tell me which parts of a washing machine can they possibly repurporse ?
Give precise examples, dont talk pie in the sky, but precise.
Second question. WHy Washing machines ?If washing machines are so important for missiles why have they NEVEr been on an export ban to places like Iran or Russia ? EVER ?
Well, given we only have the Express report of a Ukrainian inspection of the bits, which doesn’t identify the exact semiconductors being found, nor do we have much information on the sophistication of the missile.
We have more than that. We have this statement from the Reichsfuhrer herself-
https://x.com/EU_Commission/status/1571454007683428352?lang=en
The Russian military is taking chips from dishwashers and refrigerators to fix their military hardware, because they ran out of semiconductors.
Russia's industry is in tatters and its economy on life-support.
This is the price for Putin's trail of death and destruction.
Way back in 2022. Which was essentially 3 lines of bullshit and projection. Russia's industry isn't in tatters, it's economy is doing a lot better than Germany and much of the EU, which is paying the price of Ursula's 17 rounds of sanctions. There was also very little evidence that Russia is actually taking chips from dishwashes & refrigerators, but it made for an excellent meme.
There have been some pics showing boards allegedly taken from Russian missiles & drones. One showed an early '90s vintage TI DSP chip, which was interesting because at the time, it was 'state of the art' and I had to sign an export declaration when I got a dev kit to use it. But not something I'd expect to find in a fridge or dishwasher. The DSP has long been EOL and there are a slew of clones, or just more capable chips. Which is also one of the issues because missiles don't really need the latest & greatest semiconductors to function, and Russia can produce their own chips.
Perhaps this something we should be investigating, namely ways of both bringing the cost down and facilitating volume manufacturing under war conditions.
Yep. Or it could just be a good thing to minimise supply-chain distruption. Trying to compete making the most modern CPU, GPU & memory would be expensive, but there was a shortage of support chips like power controllers during the panicdemic. So supporting UK semi fabs that could produce say, ARM SoCs and support ICs could be a smart idea.
I know it's bullshit, because I've made embedded linux devices, and they are ruthless about driving down costs, so the idea that Washing Machines sold in far greater quantities wouldn't have vastly more price pressure than internal kit which we'd never sell (managed network endpoint).
I remember in college being told something like the space stuff uses old MCU as the errata is well-known, supplies are known quantities etc. We had smallish runs, but we needed a five-year guarantee for that board.
But nope - it's because we love the Ruskies - Basement Banderite
I came across this misleadingly titled YouTube piece:
How Putin uses washing machines to produce missiles: Russia’s neighbors help to bypass sanctions
Which whilst showing a step change increase in white goods consumption by a group of neighbouring countries, favourable to Putin, also notes Russia is in dire need of household appliances which could mean they are destined for consumers rather than salvage.
> One showed an early '90s vintage TI DSP chip
This the line of thinking I was favouring: whether early 1990s mil tech is broadly equivalent to recent white goods tech, thus permitting some level of reuse. We achieved a lot with 8 bit processors and FPAs and very limited amounts of memory. Given these were still largely discrete components and my pre 2010 white good also contain a lot of discrete components and modules it is not implausible that some components could be repurposed.
However, I am skeptical about the really modern stuff, given the amount of miniaturisation, integration and surface mounting in today’s electronics. However, I would not be surprised if discrete components have not been replaced by a more capable compute module that can be programmed to support internet and associated functionality: an Atmel AVR could run a washing machine or a missile.
However, I am skeptical about the really modern stuff, given the amount of miniaturisation, integration and surface mounting in today’s electronics. However, I would not be surprised if discrete components have not been replaced by a more capable compute module that can be programmed to support internet and associated functionality: an Atmel AVR could run a washing machine or a missile.
Exactly. The basic functions are nicely explained in this meme-
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-missile-knows-where-it-is
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't.
So a relatively dumb missile doesn't need much CPU. There's also a fun game called From the Depths which lets us play with PIDs, missile designs and has modular missiles that can include LUA. A guidance script is less than 50 lines and the basic math is the same as it could be in the real-world. Then more capable chips could give more functionality, so possible modification of Iskanders to use laser guidance. But that would also mean adding sensors for a seeker head. I guess adding things like image recognition would need a bit more grunt, but still wouldn't need state of the art components.
Then I guess there's necessity, ie TI doesn't make that DSP any more, so new production would need an alternative. Then what the effects of combining previously discrete components into a SOC might have on the electronics package in a missile. So reduce size and power requirements of that, and maybe create more space for fuel or warhead. And Russia does have the capacity and capability to manufacture their own ICs.
Anyone person who thinks flying is about cpus. Its not its about SENSORS.
Before computers, people were flying planes and they could only achieve this because the person (or computer program making decision) could read valuable information from sensors, stuff like speed, orietnation, height etc.
The cpu is irrelevant in any flyging system.
Now tell me why would a washing machine have a sensors to read air speed, orientation, gps etc some of the core building parts of a flight computer ?
>” Anyone person who thinks flying is about cpus. It’s not its about SENSORS.”
I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the sophistication of the missiles - something we are not being told.
A very basic missile only really needs a timer: fly level for x minutes then dive into the ground.
However, I agree if the R are making sophisticated missiles, where are they getting the sensors they will need from - stockpiles or new production/imports.
Can we just accept it's not true for many reason, not least of which the facts, logic, narrative, the provenance of the reporting. The sheer randomness of Washing Machine Missile.
It's down to the original lie from Saddam Hussain - UK/US supplied Saddam with Chemical weapons - claiming them as "Machine Parts", when he wanted to use the Oil revenue to improve the per-capita living standards, as Gaddafi has done in Libya, suddenly the "Machine Parts" became "Weapons of Mass Destruction".
The atrocity propaganda is repetitive, as is the attempt to denigrate the industrial capabilities to suggest that our violence is superior technologically and therefore morally righteous..
>” Can we just accept it's not true for many reason, ”
But the best lies have a grain of truth in them.
Hence I suspect parts were seen that are not Mil spec. and are or could be used in (some) white goods.
I would not be surprised if the R military havent looked at white goods to see their potential. As Ukraine has shown, you don’t need bespoke Mil spec stuff, off-the-shelf consumer stuff with some modification can make some cheap but effective weapons.
>” the attempt to denigrate the industrial capabilities to suggest that our violence is superior technologically and therefore morally righteous..”
This is probably why it has been repeated across the media without fact checking. However, I wonder if Putin is laughing at the denigration and dismissal of his industrial base when he is sitting on large stockpiles of parts awaiting assembly…
WHy doesnt R simply order boxes of the same chips found in washing machines straight from china ?
Its cheaper, and less effort. Moving washing machines is a lot of effort, they are big and heavy just to potentially take a 50c chip. What ever part you think is valuable could be ordered by the thsouands straight from china.
>” WHy doesnt R simply order boxes of the same chips found in washing machines straight from china ?”
They may well be doing exactly this.
There are two parts to this conundrum: equivalence of components and sourcing of those components.
Taking the claim at face value, would suggest semiconductor components (*) with the same markings as used in domestic white goods have been found in R missiles.
We have the step increase in white goods shipments to countries neighbouring and favourable to Russia. Now the challenge is determining whether these are connected. Practicalities and economies of scale suggest salvaging semiconductor parts from white goods is not a good plan; but it makes a good news story.
(*) From what I have seen, no one has suggested the R have been using complete assemblies, ie. Fully populated circuit boards.
Roland: Taking the claim at face value, would suggest semiconductor components (*) with the same markings as used in domestic white goods have been found in R missiles.
cow: Prove it.
Do you know what parts are REQUIRED for any drone to fly ?
Heres a clue, the CPU isnt the only part. A cpu without sensors will not fly.
Yes i know what it means.
Im just suggesting if you standback and actually think of the claim it is making - its completely idiotic.
Your other posts demonstrate that you think flying is all about having a microcontroller to "run" a program. You completely fail to mention or appreciate that this flying computer cant fly until it has sensors that give it feedback on its environment. Stuff like orientation, air speed, altitude etc.
Go watch any of the many air crash shows, many times the plane crashes due to bad or failed sensors. NO SENSORS, and the plane falls out of the sky.
For example theres a few shows i always remember such as the AIR FRANCE that flew into the Atlantic travelling from Brazil to Paris, because it pitot tubes failed or were reporting bad data. Another is where a plane was parked somewhere in the americans and some local wasp built a nest in the tubes and the plane computer and pilots were confused because and eventually they crashed. In another,ground staff failed to remove some cover from the same tubes and somehow the plane left and tried to fly and eventually crashed because of confusing data.
If an AIRBUS crashes without ONE of these sensors, how does a RUSSIAN missile possibly fly with NONE of these sensors ?
Washing machines will not have any of these sensors.
If an AIRBUS crashes without ONE of these sensors, how does a RUSSIAN missile possibly fly with NONE of these sensors ?Washing machines will not have any of these sensors.
Nobody is saying Russian missiles & drones don't have some sensors. Ursula von der Liar did hower say that Russia was scavenging parts from washing machines and fridges. I've been saying it wouldn't need to, given stuff like this-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maskless_lithography
In 2018 the Dutch and Russia jointly funded (Rusnano) company Mapper Lithography producing multi e-beam maskless lithography MEMS components went bankrupt and was acquired by ASML Holding, a major competitor at the time. The foundry producing devices is located near Moscow, Russia. As of early 2019 it was run by Mapper LLC. The Mapper Lithography originally was created at Delft University of Technology in 2000.
and-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrating_structure_gyroscope#MEMS_gyroscopes
In many cases, a single part includes gyroscopic sensors for multiple axes. Some parts incorporate multiple gyroscopes and accelerometers (or multiple-axis gyroscopes and accelerometers), to achieve output that has six full degrees of freedom. These units are called inertial measurement units, or IMUs.
and again I've seen those combined with microcontrollers that also include GPS/GLONAS capability, all in one cheap and convenient package to control drones, RC aircraft... or missiles. I have no idea if missiles would also include Pitot tubes, or need them. If Russia can produce MEMS gyros, it could print enough to give very accurate INS IMUs and integrate GLONAS data to correct for drift and/or improve accuracy.. And Russia can or could make the necessary components. Sanctions and Mapper Lithography being a JV might mean a dependency on ASML for operation, plus Ukraine has been targeting Russia's supply chain and that foundry might be out of operation due to drones.
But this is also a NATO/EU/UK supply-chain issue. We want to churn out say, 10,000 drones a month. Do we have any foundries producing MEMS gyros? If not, how long (and how much) to set those up because we can't rely on China to supply those components?
You have no idea what a flight controller needs. Its not about the CPU its about the other sensors.
Why would a washing machine or toaster have a GPS sensor ?
It doesnt ?
Russia doesnt need to steal microcontrollers from washing machines because it can buy them from china, brand new in the box.
You have no idea what a flight controller needs. Its not about the CPU its about the other sensors.
Sure I do, and you can buy them for <$50 with INS, gyro, radio and motor controllers all in one small package. Just wire pinouts to battery, antenna and motors, and Bobs your bomb maker. Plus all the open source data being shared online for folks that want to build their own drones, or RC aircraft. They may be intended to drive small drones & 5V motors that can carry <500g, but it doesn't take much to add some glue components so they can drive 24V motors instead, or some logic to scale up/down inputs.
Why would a washing machine or toaster have a GPS sensor ?
Because people really need one of these?
https://revcook.com/products/r180-connect-plus-smart-toaster
Our most customizable toasting experience with 38 bread types, 7 brownness levels in 3 easy taps, for the perfect level of toastyness, every time
Upgraded interactive display includes your personalized photo frame, automatic time and date and your local weather forecast
Which I guess is.. useful. After all, you wouldn't want to be making toast in the rain cos it'll go soggy. I didn't look too closely but a lot of these 'smart' appliances also encourage you to download spyware to your phone so it can slurp additional data. Or tell you that your kitchen is on fire because you've left your toaster unattended. Oh, and your toast has burned. HTH, HAND and note the disclaimer in your toasters T&Cs.
Russia doesnt need to steal microcontrollers from washing machines because it can buy them from china, brand new in the box.
Sure, but people keep forgetting that Russia can also make their own. So ponder this, which is something I encountered when thinking about making home automation sensors/controllers-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcontroller#Volume_and_cost
In 2012, worldwide sales of 8-bit microcontrollers were around US$4 billion, while 4-bit microcontrollers also saw significant sales.
In 2015, 8-bit microcontrollers could be bought for US$0.311 (1,000 units), 16-bit for US$0.385 (1,000 units), and 32-bit for US$0.378 (1,000 units, but at US$0.35 for 5,000).
And had some fun discovering that 8-bit controllers would cost more/harder to source than 16 or 32-bit because a lot of Chinese fabs had switched lines to producing those rather than 8-bit. More bits than were needed, but also SoCs with network, RAM and NVRAM could be had for only a few cents more. And that there were a lot of Chinese design bureaus that could take a list of specifications & turn those into schematics, or even prototype boards in <1wk. Which is something Western companies either couldn't, or wouldn't do without lots of additional money.
But this is one of the problems around the 'orcs with shovels' meme, or assuming that only China or the West can make chips-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maskless_lithography
In 2018 the Dutch and Russia jointly funded (Rusnano) company Mapper Lithography producing multi e-beam maskless lithography MEMS components went bankrupt and was acquired by ASML Holding, a major competitor at the time. The foundry producing devices is located near Moscow, Russia. As of early 2019 it was run by Mapper LLC. The Mapper Lithography originally was created at Delft University of Technology in 2000.
Russia also has some smart people & technology, and as of 2022, the foundry is probably run by Rusnano/Russians again because sanctions.. Which have a bad habit of incentivising sanctioned nations to become more self-reliant. How many foundrys does the UK have still running?
Oh, and back to Spiders. This is an interesting video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCm5nnVCY1k
With a bit of a summary of that operation. Which touched on how drones might have been controlled, and if they were remotely controlled. Makes a good point that they might not have been and were instead just pre-programmed to fly to pre-determined targets, ie where aircraft were. Which may also explain some of the limited success, like if they weren't human controlled, they wouldn't have been able to hit aircraft that had moved. Which would also be the aircraft you'd probably most want to hit but there might have been a couple of days delay between drones being programmed with their targets and the attacks. Which makes sense, ie the more drone operators required, the more risk of leaks & detection, and the less need for a reliable network. Which is also a possible counter when they showed drones going to a disarmed state when GPS signal was lost.
Jelly: There have been some pics showing boards allegedly taken from Russian missiles & drones. One showed an early '90s vintage TI DSP chip, which was interesting because at the time, it was 'state of the art' and I had to sign an export declaration when I got a dev kit to use it. But not something I'd expect to find in a fridge or dishwasher. The DSP has long been EOL and there are a slew of clones, or just more capable chips. Which is also one of the issues because missiles don't really need the latest & greatest semiconductors to function, and Russia can produce their own chips.
Cow: A washing machine wouldnt have a TI DSP chip.
Washing machines dont have a need for real time processing of significant amounts of data, so they probably dont need a DSP. Why would a washing machine need a DSP ?
Secondly the R wouldnt be taking washing machines to get ONE lousy DSP, you can order simple things like from China, their friends for a few cents. Its more effort to take the washing machine and dissassemble than simply order a 1000 ready in the box from china.
Why would a washing machine need a DSP ?..Now tell me why would a washing machine have a sensors to read air speed, orientation, gps etc some of the core building parts of a flight computer ?
Not sure why you're asking me. I pointed out that it was Reichsfuhrer von der Leyen who made the washing machines and fridges claim, wiithout providing any evidence. Then I gave an example of a chip that was supposedly recovered from an old missile. Then thanks to modern living and semi manufacturing, washing machines might actually have GPS etc because it could be cheaper to buy SoCs with those in them than without. Plus if it's a 'smart' washing machine or fridge, it'll probably want to know where you live, orientation and air speed to better target you with ads.
But as for CPUs vs sensors.. You really need both, and maybe A/D convertors and DSPs so the missile knows where it isn't, can wiggle its fins, deploy some flares or chaff and do generaly missiley things.. None of which really requires a lot of compute power.
Perhaps this something we should be investigating, namely ways of both bringing the cost down and facilitating volume manufacturing under war conditions.
Just as a PS.. This is a great video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZTGwcHQfLY
Destin from SmarterEveryDay describing the challenges he found in trying to manufacture a 'Made in the USA' grill scrubber. He mentions the problem of a brain drain in key skills like tool & die making as we've offshored and de-industrialised. UK and most of the EU has the same problem, and if we can't make the tools that make the machines, molds or other components, we can't manufacture weapons, or stuff in general. We're losing the funnel of apprentice -> journeyman -> master machinist, toolmaker etc so although people may have ideas, they can't turn those into reality as easily.
This is something I looked at doing, ie setting up a business to train machinists but couldn't get a business case that worked. But it's something governments can do, ie rather than spending on churning out graduates with degrees that aren't that useful, create tech colleges that can churn out skilled engineers, machinists and trade skills instead.
> Just as a PS.. This is a great video-
Agree definitely an interesting and relevant video.
Interestingly, I saw this then watched Clarkson’s Farm series S04:E07 & E08. It contained a much abridged but similar observation about sourcing ALL the ingredients for his pub restaurant from within 30 miles or even from within the UK.
Roland6: Given some washing machines are internet capable, that means there are some quite capable parts in them.
cow: How exactly are the Russians going to reprogram those boards ?
You dont just look at a board and then upload a new program, that would take months if not years.
Secondly those boards are still useless, they dont GPS, gyros, accelerometers and other things that a flight system would require.
"The point wasn't to underestimate an opponent it was to correctly point out that Russia is unable to field a wholly new non Soviet aircraft design - their "stealth fighter" the Su-57 is vaporware and photos of the construction techniques being used are not confidence inspiring."
I can believe that .... but it seems to be really, really difficult to everyone else too. And when barely possible, costs ridiculous amounts of money. (*Cough* F22 *cough*)
US still flies B52s from Vietnam war ... OK, they were *really good*, but still ancient.
US still flies B52s from Vietnam war ...
That's quite different than being "unable to field a wholly new non Soviet aircraft design". The US has the B-1B, which is superior to the B-52 in every way. I think they only keep using the B-52 because they have such a huge inventory of them, thanks to crazy cold-war spending. They have retrofit B-52s to modern avionics and engines, so it's mostly just an old airframe.
There's little reason to spend all the money to replace them instead of just using them. After all, the 747 is nearly as old, and it is similarly still in service.
The only way the B1 is superior to the B52 is in price.
Have you got ANY proof of this statement because media hype ?
Neither can wipe out the Houthis, and they dont even have an air force or navy but donkeys and. few "inferior" Iranian missiles.
THe Russians also thought they had superior kit and look at the current war.
rcxb:
top-speed (a LOT)
cpw:
It doesnt matter which is faster, because the HOUTHIS have no air force.
Donkeys and Toyotas on the ground arent going to catch either.
~
rxcb: maximum payload
cow:
THe Houthis are still firiing missiles at ships TODAY.
~
rxcb: operational ceiling
cow: The Houthis have NO AIR FORCE, it doesnt matter which is flying highter.
~~
rxcb: per-hour flight costs
cow:
Both cost too much and both lost against the HOuthis.
On the other hand, I really don't understand why the size of exfiltrated data seems to always be touted as a major index of the severity of an attack. One could steal several gigabytes that's a pre-release marketing video, or one could steal 1 kilobyte that's a .txt with the EW countermeasures master password in plaintext.
On the other hand, I really don't understand why the size of exfiltrated data seems to always be touted as a major index of the severity of an attack. One could steal several gigabytes that's a pre-release marketing video, or one could steal 1 kilobyte that's a .txt with the EW countermeasures master password in plaintext.
Ukraine does have some proficient hackers, but it's the problem with propaganda. The website was defaced, so that was obviously compromised. That might have been the only thing compromised and the gigabytes of data could just be the contents of the public webserver. Equally, public websites can be jumping off points to get across the DMZ and attack internal networks. Ukraine has no real reason to keep classified Russia data private, so could have done the usual thing and drop some of it in the War Thunder forums.
Ukraine has no real reason to keep classified Russia data private
I'm sorry but did you really mean to type that?
They have every reason to keep it secret, firstly Russia can not be 100% sure what files they have. Secondly they may want to use some of the information garnered. Thirdly even if they were to release it they wouldn't dream of doing so until they have examined every single byte to extract any useful information. Give me a few hours and I'll come up with another dozen reasons not to release the exfiltrated data.
> The website now redirects to the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) page instead, a conglomerate of aircraft manufacturers that includes Tupolev.
Isn't that the fictional company from DOOM, which er, "accidentally" opened a portal to Hell..
(Yes I know that is Union Aerospace Corporation, but it is aptly similar to this Russian company who seem also to be working towards Armageddon)
Good work Ukraine, humanity might survive a few more years before its descent into oblivion
"Good work Ukraine, humanity might survive a few more years before its descent into oblivion"
I think you'll find it has the opposite effect. I fully expect Ukrainians to suffer greatly for those attacks, followed by creeping escalation to WW3. No doubt the US will try and keep out of direct conflict because like most bullies it can't take punishment only dish it out. I think people forget how serious war is as we have managed to keep it at arms length for decades. In fact I'm appalled by some people's celebration of it. This is not a film or game, millions have died and many more may still die including YOUR children. Nothing to celebrate. You might also want to start asking why our politicians want war. Don't think for a moment they are worried about us there is never any evidence for that unless you are stupid enough to believe the words they speak.
When I call Americans bullies, I don't refer to their people or soldiers, I refer to their corrupt politicans who sit back and make money from misery.
Are you suggesting Ukraine should have bent over and let putler take it?
I would suggest if we had politicians that served their people instead of just pursuing their own power, greed and were well balanced people, we would not have got here. Ukraine would be whole and happy, we would all be friends and trading together, energy would be cheap and all our people more affluent. Mearsheimer said in 2014 that the CIA& state department's coup in Ukraine would ultimately lead to war with Russia and here we are.
Wow - even allowing that you live with life reflected through maturing vintages of extreme excretions, that's a distorted view.
You're Basement Banderite a (Nazi Fuck)^3 - and you're throwing shade on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer
Why? Is it because he's Jewish, a wrote a book "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" and is impeccably credentialed, veteran, scholar, mensch.
John Joseph Mearsheimer (/ˈmɪərʃaɪmər/; born December 14, 1947)[3] is an American political scientist and international relations scholar. He is R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor in the University of Chicago.
Mearsheimer is best known for developing the theory of offensive realism, which describes the interaction between great powers as being primarily driven by the rational desire to achieve regional hegemony in an anarchic international system. In accordance with his theory, Mearsheimer believes that China's growing power will likely bring it into conflict with the United States.
In his 2007 book The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, Mearsheimer argues that the Israel lobby wields disproportionate influence over U.S. foreign policy. His more recent work focuses on criticism of the "liberal international order" and why he believes the West is to blame for the Russo-Ukrainian War.
There is a wonderful interview in the New Yorker in 2022.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine
JM: It’s not imperialism; this is great-power politics. When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States.
NY: The Monroe Doctrine, essentially.
JM: Of course. There’s no country in the Western hemisphere that we will allow to invite a distant, great power to bring military forces into that country.
NY: Right, but saying that America will not allow countries in the Western hemisphere, most of them democracies, to decide what kind of foreign policy they have—you can say that’s good or bad, but that is imperialism, right? We’re essentially saying that we have some sort of say over how democratic countries run their business.
JM: We do have that say, and, in fact, we overthrew democratically elected leaders in the Western hemisphere during the Cold War because we were unhappy with their policies. This is the way great powers behave.
NY: Of course we did, but I’m wondering if we should be behaving that way. When we’re thinking about foreign policies, should we be thinking about trying to create a world where neither the U.S. nor Russia is behaving that way?
JM: That’s not the way the world works. When you try to create a world that looks like that, you end up with the disastrous policies that the United States pursued during the unipolar moment. We went around the world trying to create liberal democracies. Our main focus, of course, was in the greater Middle East, and you know how well that worked out. Not very well.
In Mother Russia, sun blocks out you.
Seriously, though, how do you think Russia would have responded to that? Bearing in mind that they wouldn't have lost the thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of personnel, and would not have expended all of that ammunition of their own at this point? It would have been clearly represented as an invasion, and we'd currently be knee deep in radioactive fallout cosplaying as the traffic warden from Threads.
I hear that the West's issue on defence is the military Corporations want to sell hugely sophisticated, expensive (& highly-profitable!) equipment, which can sometimes be done as effectively and at 100th of the cost. And we're usually arming ourselves to fight the last war, not the next one.
I would suggest we simply don't have the drone volumes to overwhelm the Russian defences like that.
However I do hope we're learning fast from Ukraine's low-cost amd effective pragmatism !
I hear that the West's issue on defence is the military Corporations want to sell hugely sophisticated, expensive (& highly-profitable!) equipment, which can sometimes be done as effectively and at 100th of the cost. And we're usually arming ourselves to fight the last war, not the next one.
I think that's profits over pragmatism and we're risking making the same mistakes that Germany did the last time they played war. So focusing on wunderwaffe rather than simpler, easier to produce stuff. Germany built a few complicated & expensive King Tigers, Russia just churned out a lot more and a lot simpler T-34s.
Yes, drones are proving highly effective, so churn out lots of those.. If we can, especially if (when) China bans exports of drone components. But we shouldn't overlook the basics like artillery. Fancy SPGs are great, but expensive and tempting targets. Russia's been criticized for using 'WW2 artillery', but it works, they're easy/cheap to produce and they have a lot of them. Especially when they can also get artillery and ammunition from DPRK that had thousands of guns, and millions of rounds of ammunition. Field guns aren't sexy, but as Russia has demonstrated, they're very effective, especially if you have lots of them.
Also curious if we'll develop heavier artillery like DPRK's Koksan 170mm gun given that outranges our artillery. Plus other basics like mortars & ammunition, or even just small-arms. That gets politically interesting. The history of UK firearms legislation is long and chequered with ideas that having a civilian population with some firearms knowledge could be handy if there was ever a need to consript them. Or just help subsidise the cost of ammunition production by having a customer base. The US has this and can keep production lines churning out millions of rounds of 5.56 or 7.62mm, much of Europe doesn't, so mostly has to sell to military and law enforcement.. who's budgets for ammunition often get cut.
We're living in rather interesting times though.
"I would suggest we simply don't have the drone volumes to overwhelm the Russian defences like that."
Yup. Currently China has a semi-monopoly in bulk production of drones. "Bulk" as in millions and tens of thousands per day.
Low profit pieces so US weaponry makers are not interested at all: They rather sell a dozen of 3 billion bombers.
Yes I have been to Russia, didn't see anything terrible. And quite a few Ukrainians were living happily under Russia in Crimea. Understandably with reluctance as they consider it Ukraine but some admitted it had got better under Russia. Should one country invade another? No. But they do and I could point to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Bosnia. But that's ok morals can be one directional according to many. So painting Russia as if it's still some Stalinist killing ground is BS. The whole Ukrainian war was caused by Western interference and it is supported because people are not told the truth and it helps only the self-appointed elite.
Have you immigrated to every place you've ever visited?
It seems an extreme reaction to going "this is quite nice." I really liked France, can't speak French worth a damn, shockingly I didn't move to France.
I was born in the UK, and I'm accustomed to surly people, bad service, and worse weather.
Besides I've grown fond of the place over the intervening decades.
Where else has advanced enough in the field of literary conceit as to have eliminated political satire.
It's amazing the delusional racism required to look at world History especially as I do coming from the UK or coming from the US, and saying Russia or even USSR bad.
Yes some of the USSR history was pretty shitty, but frankly a lot of their history is the reason people in the west got some rights, and our brutality matches and exceeds theirs.
Russia is not the USSR, and if you mark their history against the UK/US in the same period, again we don't come up smelling of roses in that comparison.
But you can see in this and many other threads, anything they do is because they are evil, and anything we do is because we are noble and were forced to align with evil in service of the greater good, which is just around the corner, but we've got no money left, because the Russians.
Not because Putin started it? How much Russians pay you?
Nope. Obama & Biden started it with their 2014 regime change and coup. That triggered Ukraine's civil war, and a lot of western leaders when Crimea and Donbas broke away from Kiev. Then came Minsk, Ukraine preparing to reoccupy the Rhineland.. I mean Crimea, DPR & LPR, Russia's intervention and the rest is still becoming history. Lots of provocations in the supposedly 'unprovoked' and 'full scale' invasion.
'When I call Americans bullies, I don't refer to their people or soldiers, I refer to their corrupt politicans who sit back and make money from misery.'
When I call Russians bullies, I don't refer to their people or soldiers, I refer to their corrupt politicians who sit back and make money from misery. There you go, FTFY Anonymous Comrade.
' Like most bullies it can't take punishment only dish it out'. And attempts to take the moral high ground when it has just had a good smack in the face.
Americans like to tell everyone how many guns they have, but when it really counts, they are always a no show. They always let others do the hard work and come in late.
Most of Europe remembers WW1 and WW2 and the people of Ukraine will remember when they win.
How many fucking guns and weapons do you need ?
Ukraine has a fraction and they are standing proud and America still doesnt have the balls to even say boo.
Then again America cant even beat the Houthis and they couldnt stop the Iranians from sending weapons to Yemen by Sea right under the nose of the 5th fleet.
How the hell did Iran get passed alll them ships ?
It's a complete shock to nobody, who isn't deluded or racist. Iran was a great industrial power long before England thought of Smallpox blankets.
Iran has more than one in four of the worlds PHDs, and has more advanced engineering than the people who invented the Medical Bankruptcy.
The USA is the tech equivalent of a trailer park meth lab. The suprematist mindset makes you think you're entitled to dominate other countries
The USA has a great German (Nazi) rocket engineering tradition, An appalling education system. A great commercial success story where well educated people from abroad come to the US to start an "American Tech Company".
Yemen is a brave people, fighting against a fascist oppressor with overwhelming force intent on enslaving them, and facilitating an ongoing genocide.
That was the US backing Saudi HeadChoppers, helping them impose a famine on Yemen which killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Which the supporters of Nazis in Ukraine are silent on, it seems it's fine for White supremacists to Bomb brown people for supporters of Ukraine. Can't see the linkage between supporting Nazis in Ukraine and blanket support for all expressions of White Supremacy - it's so subtle /s.
There are plenty of smart Americans, but the country is a backward shithole, with lots of money, but poor people, bad infrastructure, corrupt and incompetent leadership who openly support Ukrainians Nazis.
The US will never beat anybody other than it's real enemy the people of the US.
Its armies can kill many people, destroy and steal much. But Winning - not possible, not in Vietnam, not in Afghanistan, Not in Iraq, not in Libya, not in Ukraine, not in Syria, not in Palestine. they killed a lot of people, destroyed the country's infrastructure, put in place Terrorists and Nazis. Eventually the people will reclaim their freedom from US oppression, even in the USA.
Fair point, AC. But I say "good work", because I think progress toward Armageddon will be somewhat impeded by the destruction of a few dozen nuclear bombers, especially since they are Russian ones, and Mad Vlad is the most worryingly trigger-happy of the lot of them
The "cyber" attack is less useful, but if it impedes their ability to repair some of the bombers then all the better
" Mad Vlad is the most worryingly trigger-happy of the lot of them"
I thought so only a week ago, but Trump using National Guard against ordinary people leaves Putler to the second place.
Technically same trick China did in Tianmen Square, 1989. Absolute maniac.
I thought so only a week ago, but Trump using National Guard against ordinary people leaves Putler to the second place
Ordinary people who are torching cars & buildings, attacking police officers, looting. So your basic riot and public disorder that Trump doesn't want turning into a repeat of the Democrat-supported 'fiery, but mostly peaceful' protests that erupted during his first term.
Remember the protests were because of Trumps ICE action. Prior to the ICE action, LA was, by US measures “peaceful and law abiding”.
We should also remember Trumps questionable determination that “ the protests constitute a rebellion against the federal government.” and so deploy the national guard and protentially inflame matters further.
Zelensky? Do you really think Zelensky holds cards?? The buffoon of an actor. The cards are held by his backers. Ukraine is a proxy and the principles are slowly being dragged in because it hasn't gone as planned for either side. Trump is either lying about peace or has lost control of his agencies.
Yes it could easily be both. But I don't think he is the moron people like to think he is. He has a sense of humour and he trolls people. Is he good? Dunno, I certainly don't like his cosiness with Israel and incredibly HTS in Syria, bizarre or mad.
British Writer Pens The Best Description Of Trump I’ve Read - London Daily
“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:
A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.
Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.
And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.
So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.
This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.
And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
I'm not sure where you got this one from. Sure, the stereotype of Americans as overly polite (insincerely so) exists, but as far as I am aware, they are known as the source of the most soulless and cynical extreme right-wing greed and cut-throat business practices. Now, I'm sure this stereotype is not wholly deserved either, but the idea that the US populace as a whole was ever anything other than much more selfish and arrogant than their European counterparts seems not to fit. Let's not forget that it took them three years to decide whether to back the Third Reich or the Allies in WW2, only being forced into picking a side when an Axis country attacked them, and it's pretty clear that the people who are around today who'd have backed the Nazis aren't exactly a tiny minority.
So sure, they might claim they're nicer than us, but it doesn't seem to bear a lot of close inspection. That's not to say we don't have our own problem with too many far-right scumbags over here as well. All the flag-shaggers who bleat on about VE day and "blitz spirit" (notably, mostly the mollycoddled generation born after the war, not the one who fought it), whilst espousing the politics of the side that lost that particular contretemps.
Anyway, I've wandered slightly off-topic. I'd say that rather than nicer than us, the USians are more religious than us. If this translated directly as better able to follow the spirit of the teachings of Christ (whether he was a man or deity aside), then they almost certainly would be nicer, but that particularly vicious brand of American "Christianity" that picks all the nasty bits from the Old Testament and ignores anything Jesus actually said or did would crucify him again in a second if he turned up today.
Why dont you tell us more about how FDR gave eastern Europe to Stalin ?
I FDR had half the vision of Churchill Ukraine would have been in NATO from 45, and Russia would never have built any of their heavy bombers or missiles which were designed and manuf by the Ukrainians.
I FDR had half the vision of Churchill Ukraine would have been in NATO from 45, and Russia would never have built any of their heavy bombers or missiles which were designed and manuf by the Ukrainians.
Uhuh. Like err, I dunno, Oleg Antonov? And Enegia is in Ukraine. And so were the universities that trained 'Ukraines' rocket scientists. And following the collapse of the Soviet Union and Ukraine gaining dependence, there was no brain drain, and Ukraine didn't run enterprises like Antonov into the ground. Of course we did help with that because Antonov was never going to be allowed to compete with US or EU aircraft manufacturers. And now Antonov is mostly just holes in the ground, like a lot of Ukraine's aerospace, defence and other industry.
Mollycoddled, I'm one of those and went to Vietnam.
What, you're a "baby boomer" from the UK? Because I would have thought that it was pretty obvious that this was the cohort I was referring to.
What were you doing in Vietnam? We never went to war with them, so I'm going to go ahead and assume sex tourism.
Perhaps we should add "exaggerate their reading comprehension skills" to the US stereotype?
his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss
I think it has to do with how partisan our politics have become. Trump was only getting about 1/3 of the republican primary vote in 2016, he only won because it was a large field and his 1/3 gave him an advantage over the rest and the field didn't coalesce around a single non-Trump alternative until it was too late. But once he became the nominee the large majority of republicans rallied around him. He was "their guy" and the more people pointed out his flaws the harder they'd defend him.
It is stated all too often but only because it is true - Trump and MAGA is a cult. You can see on a daily basis when his policies like tariffs or deportations are hurting people who voted for him. They'll post on Facebook or Twitter or Reddit always starting by mentioning that they're a big supporter or voted for him three times, how they love almost everything he's doing, then there's a "but" and they lay out how a particular thing he's doing is hurting them or their family/friends which has to be a mistake and they ask for his help. It very much resembles people praying to god who bless him for his creation and then the "but" is something like "please heal my wife's cancer as I and our children really need her".
They really believe Trump will somehow see or be told about their "prayers" and that anything afflicting those faithful to him is simply an error that he will use his power to correct if only he knows that one of his MAGA flock needs him. It is beyond pathetic, but once you know that pattern you will see it again and again and again.
There was a woman interviewed on British TV some years ago, She was asked something about a policy and the impact on GDP. She responded angrily, "It's your GDP, not ours".
You are talking past people because you don't see them. Trump is seen as an honest crook, he's honest about being a crook. He looks like a crook, he speaks like a crook, he acts like you expect a crook in his position to act.
Weekend at Biden's for four years, was an unconvincing performance. Poor people look after their own relatives, they can recognise the signs. The world has phones, they saw Biden kill 40,000 Palestinian, after going on TV to repeat genocide propaganda.
The official death toll at time of writing which of course is an undercount, but the official death toll is approximately 20% higher since Trump took office.
They are not a cult so much as hoping there is loyalty amongst thieves, because they've long since learned to not expect solidarity from the "Sensibles" of BlueMaga still lionising the Daily Bomber Obamba who bombed a family every 20 minutes of his presidency.
You don't live in a movie, really you don't live in a movie. Wake the fuck up.
"... he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit."
As an American, we are quite proud that he no longer tries to hump the leg of visiting dignitaries, well the male ones anyway.
I can also say most of his supporters proudly share most of his personality traits.
Why add further night soil to the Jellied Eel moniker?
You called!
It greatly amuses me when the deluded think I post using alts, or as an anonymuppet. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.. I don't do that. Unlike many, I'm not afraid to put my (pseudo)name to my words. It also amuses me that I've become a bit of a Voldemort to those that are incapable of distinguishing fact from fiction.
It's honestly amazing the level of delusion that exists with all the information available to you, why are you this ignorant?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine
A person who leads has one job, protect those who follow. He took office in 2019 elected to stop the Civil War. He's destroyed the country, smashed its economy, its population has fled abroad, its young men are dying.
He's an incompetent traitor to his country, who has made common cause with Nazis, and lack the bottle to use the platform available to him to denounce the Nazis, and ask for the free world to liberate Ukraine. https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
He knows he'd be dead before the day was up, but his country might be saved, and he stays silent as the fields remain unploughed.
Biletsky’s college thesis was a defense of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, a group of paramilitary Nazi collaborators founded by Stepan Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that carried out ethnic cleansings of more than 100,000 Jews and Poles. After leaving university, Biletsky quickly embedded with multiple fascist outfits, including the “Stepan Bandera All-Ukrainian Organization ‘Tryzub’” and the Social-National Party — not to be confused with the National Socialist Party of 1940’s Germany.
Biletsky left the Social-National Party in protest in 2004 as the group began to rebrand and move away from overt neo-Nazi symbolism. Two years later, he led an organization called Patriots of Ukraine, which has been linked to numerous mob assaults. One Patriot of Ukraine member has claimed the group was behind the seizure and torching of the headquarters of a political party during the US-backed “Maidan” coup in 2014.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/08/16/zelensky-ukraines-notorious-neo-nazi/
> Trump is either lying about peace or has lost control of his agencies.
I’m sure Trump doesn’t believe he is telling lies, as Trump probably believes “peace” can be achieved by Zelenskyy simply rolling over and accepting whatever Putin puts on the table, in the “negotiations” Trump has “facilitated”. Whether this results in a just or lasting peace Trump has already indicated is irrelevant.
You are assuming there was a time when Trump had control of his agencies…
He's making Putin look the fool on a daily basis, and everyone except those losers sucking Putin's dick are loving it!
Freud would have a field day with some of the fantasies on display here. Especially when the 'losers' are actually the winners at the moment, with Ukraine being 20% smaller and shrinking by the day. The real losers are the nafobots such as yourself that are incapable of seeing the 'reality on the ground'. All Ukraine's novelty pianist is doing is poking the bear harder. It's also showing that Ukraine consistently lies. So-
The trucks reportedly carried prefabricated homes with dummy roofs that were automatically raised to let loose 117 explosives-laden drones that destroyed or damaged a claimed 41 bombers and air radar craft, a score that Russian state media disputes, saying there was damage to "several" aircraft.
Images released by Ukraine show the containers used to launch the drones were nothing like 'sheds', or prefabricated homes. Images release by Ukraine showed drones in those containers, roughly 45 per. If both containers on trucks contained the same number, then around 90 per truck. 5 airfields as targets, so 450 drones. So only a 26% success rate in getting drones into the air. One attack failed completely when the truck exploded on the way, ironically enough to Ukrainka. A bomber base far, far away from Ukraine but presumably picked for its name.
So then 450 drones for 41 'kills' is a 9% success rate. But then people have been crawling all over satellite images, and the best guess is only 12-14 aircraft damaged or destroyed. A 3% success rate. And then Ukraine's SBU released some more images, including one showing a drone trying to hump an A-50 radome. Which revealed a few things that back up the claim that Ukraine greatly exagerated their success, even though they were using FPV drones and had video. The A-50 being drone humped had no engines and the tail removed and on the ground. No idea whether this aircraft was one of the claimed 'kills', but it was obviously not being used, and hadn't flown in a long time. Neither had the one sitting next to it that was also in bad condition.
So then it's how many of the 12-14 aircraft were actually combat capable, and at least 1 kill was just a cargo plane. But Ukraine lied.
And then this happened-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg7zy1jq7no
Russia launched large-scale drone and missile strikes on Ukraine's capital and other parts of the country early on Friday, officials said.
So the King of Clowns.. I mean Drones stunt obviously has done little to prevent Russia striking Ukraine, including this time targets in the far west of the country. And this probably wasn't the retaliatory strike people are expecting, and Ukraine has provoked by their attacks on railways, and Russia's nuclear triad. And Ukraine's escalation has obviously pissed off Putin, who talked about terrorism and there being no point trying to negotiate with terrorists. Which could mean Russia formalising that, and upgrading their SMO to an ATO. And you don't negotiate with terrorists, you eliminate them*. Which might be why Zelensky was looking rather stressed in his videos yesterday.
And now-
"In particular, we have obtained comprehensive information about individuals directly involved in servicing Russian strategic aviation. The result will obviously be noticeable both on the ground and in the sky."
Which sounds like a not very veiled threat that Ukraine might conduct more assassinations in Russia against the people they've been able to identify in this hack. And if they do, it'll just give Russia more excuses to treat the Kiev regime as terrorists, and deal with them accordingly. Blowback can be a real bitch, especially if Russia waits for Zelensky to return to Kiev and drops an Oreshnik on his palace. Which might not result in a successful decapitation, but would be symbolic and maybe satisfies Russia's need to retaliate and send a strong message.
*Unless they're Syrian al-qaeda people, in which case you give them our money because they wear a suit now, and have obviously reformed.. Right?
"with Ukraine being 20% smaller and shrinking by the day. "
At the start of the 3 day SMO (or the 10-day SMO as I think you prefer we call it) some 40 months ago, Russia occupied about 8% of Ukraine. It now occupies about 20% of Ukraine. So the Russians have gained about 12% of Ukraine's territory in a bit over 3 years - simplistically, about 4% a year.
Except that most of that territorial gain occurred in the first 9 months of the 3-day SMO.
Various estimates that I have seen suggest that Russia has taken between 0.6% and 1.0% of Ukrainian territory in the last year, which is instinctively about right. The current Russian advance is an advance, in that you are right, so Ukrainian is getting slightly smaller each day - at the current rate, it will take about 100 years for Russia to achieve it's maximalist objective and annex all of Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Russians are about to hit the 1 million casualty mark.
Russia is losing (but so is Ukraine).
"images released by Ukraine show the containers used to launch the drones were nothing like 'sheds', or prefabricated homes"
Images I have seen look like prefabricated office or site cabins to me.
https://nypost.com/2025/06/02/world-news/how-ukraine-pulled-off-its-stunning-pearl-harbor-attack-against-russia/
No particular reason I picked this site other than there is a nice clear image of one of the Ukrainian Aircraft Carriers, which shows an obvious personnel door at one end of the cabin.
The initial claims that I saw from the Ukrainians were 41 aircraft destroyed or damaged - as you yourself say. Later pronouncements from the Ukrainians that I saw clarified that to roughly 20 destroyed and roughly 20 damaged.
The more recent release of video evidence is quite comprehensive, though features some duplication. It looked to me that it was clear enough that it would be possible to work through it frame by frame, and identify specific aircraft by code numbers or other markings. And I was right - some one did just that:
https://xxtomcooperxx.substack.com/p/bean-counting?utm_source=publication-search
The analysis here looks to be sound - no obvious errors or dishonesty.
His summary:
8 Tu-95 Bear destroyed - all with the modifications to allow them to undertake missile strikes on Ukraine, and 6 of them actually armed for a missile strike at the time of their destruction.
7 to 10 Tu22M destroyed
2 A-50 derelicts destroyed - "wasted effort" being his conclusion.
1 An-12 destroyed.
So that's 16 aircraft destroyed, maybe 19. That's pretty close to the Ukrainian 20 destroyed / 20 damaged, noting also that this is a result purely of analysis of video so far released by the Ukrainians, and may not be comprehensive.
There have been a number of satellite imagery assessments through the week, too - these seem to be saying 7 TU-95 destroyed plus one damaged, possibly beyond repair, 4 TU-22 destroyed, and 1 A-50 destroyed. I have not yet seen any analysis that ties both drone video and satellite imagery together, so the satellite image A50 destroyed may or might not be one of those in the video.
Aircraft that were damaged but did not burn will be much harder to positively identify from either drone footage or satellite imagery, so the count of damaged is as likely an undercount as an overcount.
So Ukraine did not lie.
Interesting thing about that Russian missile and drone strike - at least one assessment that I have seen is that there were only 4 missile carrying aircraft involved in it, when the normal Russian strikes are apparently 12 to 15 aircraft, I have not independently verified that myself, admittedly, but do you think that perhaps something might have happened that reduced the number of aircraft available to the Russians for launching missiles at Ukrainian civilians?
It is also noteworthy that the Ukrainian Aircraft Carrier strike was not a single operation - for example, Ukrainian drones hit Engels and Dyagilevo airfields last night - FIRMS is showing a substantial blaze at the fuel depot at Engels, so that strike was undoubtedly effective, with the airbase at Bryansk hit the night before (social media posts from locals reporting massive detonation of ammunition, with visual imagery again confirming an effective strike against a purely military target).
As I have seen said elsewhere, the Ukrainians appear to have decided that they will address air defence by shooting the Archer, not the arrow.
Various estimates that I have seen suggest that Russia has taken between 0.6% and 1.0% of Ukrainian territory in the last year, which is instinctively about right. The current Russian advance is an advance, in that you are right, so Ukrainian is getting slightly smaller each day - at the current rate, it will take about 100 years for Russia to achieve it's maximalist objective and annex all of Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Russians are about to hit the 1 million casualty mark.
So as usual, you appear to have gotten a few things wrong. Firstly, your casualty estimates seem.. rather high. And you don't mention Ukraine's losses, which is the bigger problem because Russia still seems able to attract recruits, while Ukraine is forced to use snatch squads. Which could become an even bigger problem for Ukraine, if Russia decides to upgrade from an SMO to an ATO, or even declare war. Then Russia can use conscripts and paramiliary units, and about all Ukraine could do is finally lower their conscripton age to include their 18-25 population.
Then you're assuming this is a 'war' of occupation, rather than as stated by Russia at the outset, a 'war' of attrition. Ukraine has actively been helping Russia with this. So as an example Kursk, where Ukraine had much the same result as the last time Nazis invaded Kursk. So maybe 80,000 casualties, 1,000 vehicles destroyed, and they've now lost the potato fields they'd captured at a horrific cost. It may have diverted some Russian forces, but those forces are now pushing into Sumy and have broken through Ukraine's defence lines in a couple of places. Which is a situation that gets repeated all along the front liine. Russia probes, finds weak spots, then forms 'cauldrons', cutting off supply lines. Ukraine then has the choice whether to retreat, stand and fight, or try to reinforce.. And all too often Ukraine's 'leaders' just throw more Ukrainians into the cauldrons. And it does this over and over again.
So Ukraine is helping attrit their own forces. Which is bad, because attrition means removing your opponents ability to fight. Which means once you've succeeded at that, territorial gains become a lot easier. Think of it like a dam developing a leak. The collapse starts slowly, but then all at once. If (when) Ukraine runs out of bodies to throw at the problem, it can't defend against Russian advances... Which is happening, and why Kiev is so desperate to try and get a ceasefire. Which is something Russia will never agree to, especially after Kiev's antics over the last couple of weeks.
So Ukraine did not lie.
20 might be on the high side, but is still less than the originally claimed, or implied 41. They had the videos, they went for the spin, they've been caught in yet another lie. Especially when it did nothing to prevent last night's drone and missile strikes and combined with the bridge strikes, has just invited another escalation.
but do you think that perhaps something might have happened that reduced the number of aircraft available to the Russians for launching missiles at Ukrainian civilians?
Nope. Again last night's strikes that yet again, did not target civilians. Ukraine of course is still lobbing missiles and drones into Russia, often pretty indiscriminately but our media generally glosses over that.
Ukrainian drones hit Engels and Dyagilevo airfields last night - FIRMS is showing a substantial blaze at the fuel depot at Engels, so that strike was undoubtedly effective, with the airbase at Bryansk hit the night before (social media posts from locals reporting massive detonation of ammunition, with visual imagery again confirming an effective strike against a purely military target).
Or missiles.. Whether those strikes were effective remains to be seen, ie if it will slow down Russia's attacks, or just provoke more.
As I have seen said elsewhere, the Ukrainians appear to have decided that they will address air defence by shooting the Archer, not the arrow.
Or just throwing darts at a bear.. Then praying the bear doesn't get mad and swipe back.. It's a strange approach to peace negotations though. Escalating things rarely helps with that.
Ho hum, and 'as usual' you accuse others of your own crimes.
"your casualty estimates seem.. rather high"
Well, they are consistent with Ukrainian claims, and with the various Western nation claims, and also with number of casualties that are inferred when looking at the Russians' stated number of recruited personnel and current service personnel. So they may be rather high, but they are figures that everyone, even it seems the Russians, agree on.
You are right, I didn't mention Ukrainian casualty figures. They were not relevant to that fact that Russia is losing (though I did specifically say that Ukraine is losing too).
"Then you're assuming this is a 'war' of occupation, rather than as stated by Russia at the outset, a 'war' of attrition."
Except that that is not at all true. Russia, you may recall, constantly refers to this as a Special Military Operation, an SMO that was supposed to be 3 day, but, as we have previously discussed, was allowed for to extend to as much as 10 days. Quite clearly, Russia never intended that this turn into a war of attrition. you don't fight a war of attrition in a maximum of 10 days.
You yourself stated that the initial Ukrainian claim was 41 damaged or destroyed.
Faced with good (not 100% conclusive, but good) evidence that about 20 aircraft were destroyed, proving that the Ukrainian claim was approximately true, you then dishonestly pretend that the claim was 41 aircraft destroyed - which it wasn't, as you yourself clearly stated in an earlier post.
Lies that are inconsistent with each other are the hallmark of Putin's regime, so I can see where you get your inspiration from.
"did not target civilians"
And of course, you persist with the biggest and most offensive lie of all - that the Russians are not deliberately and systematically targeting civilians.
Well, fortunately, we don't have to take your word for whether or not that is true, we can see what the United Nations Organisation has to say on the matter:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/05/un-commission-concludes-russian-armed-forces-drone-attacks-against-civilians
"Russian armed forces’ drone attacks against civilians in Kherson Province amount to crimes against humanity of murder"
"Then praying the bear doesn't get mad and swipe back"
So what are they going to do, invade Ukraine? Oops, already tried that, it's not going well.
Launch missiles at civilians and critical civilian infrastructure?
No that's not helped, plus there is a strange shortage of missile launching aircraft just now.
Maybe hire some North Korean soldiers - you know, the ones that you insisted were not actually in Russia, but which the North Korea leader has confirmed were? No, that's not helped much either.
Maybe an amphibious landing in Odessa? Oh, no, can't do that, the Moskva and most of the Black Sea Fleet amphibious landing ships were sunk, and the BSF ran away so far it's now the Caspian Sea fleet.
Day by day, Russian equipment losses degrade the Russian army, and force them to rely more and more on older, less effective equipment, while Ukraine, through their own industries and the industries of the worlds civilised democracies, is steadily upgrading its equipment to be amongst the most modern and capable of any army on the planet.
Unless Putin (and the entire senior leadership) goes truly mad (as in, clinically insane) and tries to resort to nuclear weapons, which really doesn't seem likely, the Russian bear's ability to swipe back may consist of throwing men on motorbikes and in stripped down Lada Nivas, supplied by donkeys, into prepared Ukrainian positions, where the Russian army will be luck to get a metre of ground for every casualty they take.
Well, they are consistent with Ukrainian claims, and with the various Western nation claims,
Interesting circular logic. They're Ukrainian claims, and Ukraine has no incentive to exagerate, or just lie. 41 aircraft become 20, or less. Ghost of Kiev, Heroes of Snake Island etc etc. But then Western 'nations', or more like Western media just take Ukraine's figures and run with them. MoD or SBU says, therefore it must be true. Or the good'ol Bbc partners with 'Mediazona' who used to try to do more realistic assessments, even though Mediazona used to be known as 'Pussy Riot' and are just a tad anti-Russian. Reliable sources just ain't what they used to be.
You are right, I didn't mention Ukrainian casualty figures. They were not relevant to that fact that Russia is losing
Again you seem unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction. In your opinion Russia is losing. In mine, and the facts on the ground, it doesn't appear to be.
Quite clearly, Russia never intended that this turn into a war of attrition. you don't fight a war of attrition in a maximum of 10 days.
Again, you clearly don't understand the origins of this conflict, or the objectives.. But read & listen to this-
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-putin-authorises-military-operations-donbass-domestic-media-2022-02-24/
"Its goal is to protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide... for the last eight years. And for this we will strive for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine.
Along with using the same Article 51 justification as we use to justify our !wars. In fact Russia used pretty much the same language as was used to justify the invasion and destruction of Yugoslavia, and I really need to bookmark that next time I find it. Pretty sure that was to the UN, but damned if I can find it again..
Lies that are inconsistent with each other are the hallmark of Putin's regime, so I can see where you get your inspiration from.
To paraphrase NWA.. straight outa Kiev. But see-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1ld7ppre9vo
as an example, and note that the revision date, but not what changed. 41 became 13, maybe.. Plus if you look at the Bbc's misinformation unit feed at 9:43, there's a story titled "Debunking AI-generated satellite images of Russian airbases", and stating "Here’s a very recent example shared online claiming to be satellite imagery documenting damaged Russian aircraft.. That's an example of nafobots blurring fantasy and reality.
Either way, <10% of Russia's bomber force seems to be a realistic assessment, not 34% or sometimes higher..
And of course, you persist with the biggest and most offensive lie of all - that the Russians are not deliberately and systematically targeting civilians.
Uhuh. And yet far, far fewer civilians have been killed since 2022 that Ukraine managed to kill during their civil war-
https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 to be 51,000–54,0008: 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian forces9, and estimated 6,500 members of armed groups10), and 37-39,000 injured (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200 Ukrainian forces11 and 15,800-16,200 members of armed groups.
I find it rather offensive that Ukrainian apologists overlook those figures, the way Ukraine indiscrimately shelled, bombed and dropped mines on their own people.. Especially as this is precisely why this conflct escalated. Especially as Ukraine hasn't stopped doing this, or killing civilians in Kursk, or taking them as hostages. That in itsefl is a war crime, especially when it was done in an attempt to fill Ukraine's prisoner 'exchange fund'.
No that's not helped, plus there is a strange shortage of missile launching aircraft just now.
Nope, I guess not-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg7zy1jq7no
Russia launches 'massive' strikes days after Ukrainian drone attack
And Kiev lost another power station, and maybe another Patriot battery. How could Russia launch 'massive' strikes when the King of Clowns destroyed all of Russia's aircraft? And again, this wasn't even Russia's retaliation, just BAU eliminating Ukraine's drone production, power generation and air defences. This is what Zelensky wants by escalating instead of making serious attempts at peace negotiations.
Day by day, Russian equipment losses degrade the Russian army, and force them to rely more and more on older, less effective equipment, while Ukraine, through their own industries and the industries of the worlds civilised democracies, is steadily upgrading its equipment to be amongst the most modern and capable of any army on the planet.
You truly are delusional if you believe this to be true. Ukraine is littered with the remnants of the latest and greatest NATO kit (ok, sometimes old kit that could be donated in exchange for cash to buy new stuff). Sure, Russia is losing kit as well, but the big difference is Russia seems able to replace it at a far higher rate than we can. Remember those claims from years ago, that Russia would be out of missiles and artillery rounds in only a few weeks? Russia is forced to lob washing machines, and of course the 'orcs with shovels' meme? Three years later, Russia still overmatches Ukraine in every aspect and is (mostly) 1 country vs the combined industrial might of the West.
And the worst thing about your delusion is to paraphrase Sgt Zim, how does Ukraine fight when there's nobody to pull the trigger? The most modern equipment won't help, if Ukraine has nobody left to use it. We can produce weapons in maybe a few months, but it takes 18-19yrs to produce a new soldier. Especially when Ukraine's birth rate has been negative for a long while now. And Ukraine's 'own industries' can't help when those are hit just as fast as Russia can identify them. But Mertz seems to share this delusion, ie his claim that Germany will help Ukraine manufacture LRMs that could be put into service in weeks.. Which trying to pretend that Germany's Taurus missiles were made in Ukraine. Baerbock tried that when Germany got upset about German Panzers in Ukraine again and claimed that once they arrived in Ukraine, they were Ukrainian Panzers. Yeh, right..
Even if it was 1 lost plane, what the fuck are those Russian soldiers doing ?
Probably not drinking the kool aid and just advancing on Sumy, Kupiansk etc etc. Which gives Ukraine the challenge of trying to hold off advances on mutiple, widely seperated fronts and supply forces trying to hold around 1,000km of front lines. Oh, and the glorious Ukrainski army is still trying to invade & conquer Kursk.
Sumy could get interesting given there's a large forest in the way but Russia might just bypass that, or burn it. Sumy is a pretty large city, so Russia might just bypass & encirlce that as well. Most of the media is keeping rather quiet about Russian advances, even though it's the reason why Ukraine is so desperate for their '30-day unconditional ceasefire' that would allow them some much needed breathing room, and that Russia just isn't going to give them. Especially now.
Meanwhile, the Bbc carries on with their usual 'residential buildings' meme, and doesn't show images like this one-
https://x.com/Prokudin__/status/1930611757040509050
Repeated strikes by Russians destroyed the building of the Kherson Regional State Administration.
Which was probably being used as an orphanage or something. Those Russians are just that evil! Wasting all the missiles they ran out of 36 months ago targetting apartment buildings..
"Which was probably being used as an orphanage or something"
Nope, no one is claiming that, no one needs to claim that.
As you yourself just stated, it was the Regional State Administration building. Therefore it is a civilian object, as defined by the protocols to the Geneva Conventions:
"Article 52 - General protection of civilian objects
1. Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2.
2. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.
3. In case of doubt whether an object which is normally dedicated to civilian purposes, such as a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being used to make an effective contribution to military action, it shall be presumed not to be so used."
So unless you (well, the Russian Aggressor State) can prove positively that there was a definite military advantage in destroying a civilian administration building, your acknowledgement that it was destroyed by a Russian missile is an acknowledgement that the protocol was broken and that the RAS just committed (yet another) war crime.
So unless you (well, the Russian Aggressor State) can prove positively that there was a definite military advantage in destroying a civilian administration building, your acknowledgement that it was destroyed by a Russian missile is an acknowledgement that the protocol was broken and that the RAS just committed (yet another) war crime.
Hmm? It's an impressive image showing what actually happens when Russia decides it wants to hit a building. Suprised the Bbc didn't show it and instead chooses to show apartment buildings that are far less damaged. But I'll offer 2 words.. "Civil Defence". Along with how that may factor into a country under martial law, and that rather large building perhaps providing more functions than issuing driver & dog licences. You might also want to go and look at images from the First & Second Chechen conflicts and photos of Grozny for examples of what cities look like when Russia does decide to do what Israel's doing and clear ground for future redevelopment.
Again one of those bits of cognitive dissonance though. "orcs with shovels" and recycled washing machines who ran out of missiles over 3yrs ago, apparently wasting those scarce resources on apartment buildings. Which can't possibly have been hit by falling debris from either failed, or successful missile interception attempts. All those drones & missiles being shot down by Ukraine just vanish entirely. Gravity has been banished by the glorious Kiev regime.
"But I'll offer 2 words.. "Civil Defence""
So your justification for attacking a civilian building, which is a war crime unless the building is used for strictly military purposes, is that it serves for Civil Defence?
That is, defense of Civilians.
So not at all a military purpose, but a clear, specific civilian one.
Civilians - which it is war crime to attack.
You specifically claim that the admin building is used for the defense of civilians, and therefore that is why the Russians specifically attacked it.
So they specifically attacked civilians.
Despite your repeated lies that they do not.
But you have now unambiguously admitted that in fact, they do.
Which is to say, you are proudly declaring that the Russian Aggressor State is deliberately breaking the protocol to the Geneva Conventions.
So your justification for attacking a civilian building, which is a war crime unless the building is used for strictly military purposes, is that it serves for Civil Defence?
Oh dear. It might have been holding a meeting for Ukrainian philosophers and journalists. Were the Duginas strictly military when Ukraine planted a car bomb? But it's unhealthy criticising Kiev, as Darya Dugina, Gonzalo Lira, and Maxim Fomin discovered. Fomin when Ukraine gave him a statue that exploded in a St Petersburg cafe. Or there was the Crocus City Hall massacre. Ukraine of course denied all those, despite previously assassinating Ukrainians in and around Donbas for being 'collaborators'.
And now of course the veiled threat that they know where UAC employees live.
Oh, and of course there are the bridges that all suffered spontaneuous stress and fatigue, or just the Kerch Straight bridge that Ukraine did admit to bombing, you somehow thought was shattered and was re-opened to civilian traffic after a couple of hours. None of those bridges were 'for strictly militart purposes'.. So why did Ukraine bomb them, or were they (and you) admitting to war crimes? Or further afield. Some American politicians got excited when they had a successful air strike on an apartment building killing 1 Houthi, his girlfriend and around 50 others. Or if you're ever in Belgrade, visit their TV station, both new and old-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_the_Radio_Television_of_Serbia_headquarters
Insofar as the attack actually was aimed at disrupting the communications network, it was legally acceptable ... NATO’s targeting of the RTS building for propaganda purposes was an incidental (albeit complementary) aim of its primary goal of disabling the Serbian military command and control system and to destroy the nerve system and apparatus that keeps Milošević in power
And aren't TV stations also part of civil defence networks? Stay home, turn on TV or radio, await the all clear.. No, wait, we bombed that one so good luck. But we also bombed a lot of other civil infrastructure, just as we did in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc. The part you are sadly mistaken about is you can lawfully bomb 'civilian' infrastructure, if you can claim it's dual-use, housing military or paramilitary operations, or just because we say it's OK.
The actual law also says that all you need to is make some efforts to minimise civilian losses, and those efforts don't have to be high, hence why so many civilians have been killed in so many of our not-wars. So I dunno, waiting until night before bombing warehouses and industrial buldings when staff won't be at work, or on the roads. Or trickier ones, like when hotels or apartment buildings are given over, or just block-booked to soldiers. That makes those buildings lawful targets, although because being dead turns a combatant into a non-combatant, Ukraine would claim they're now civilians. Or the Bbc showing photos of a drone operator at work from inside a residential building. Or the trickier one, Patriot batteries in residential areas. Those are intended to protect cities because cities are where the people and legitmate targets are, but missile batteries are obviously also lawful targets, and if they were in wide open spaces far from civilians, would just be obvious. Defenders also have a legal duty to minimise civilian casualties by not using them as 'human shields'.
But still doesn't explain why the Bbc didn't show that image, and chooses to only show residential buildings. Surely if the town hall was such a slam-dunk war crime, they'd show it, and explain why? Of course it could be you are just wrong, plus Ukraine having harsh penalties for anyone that shows unauthorised images of damage.
>” But still doesn't explain why the Bbc didn't show that image, and chooses to only show residential buildings.”
Because bombing what are clearly civilian homes, is both a clean cut war crime and has a human angle meaning it will have bigger “imapact” than what was most probably an empty office building.
Because bombing what are clearly civilian homes, is both a clean cut war crime and has a human angle meaning it will have bigger “imapact” than what was most probably an empty office building.
I would suggest the strike on the government building shows a much bigger impact. It also isn't evidence of any war crime, because your implication is that the buildings were the target. Then, much as with the apartment building bombed in Yemen, apartments weren't being used by military personnel, or military personnel visiting girlfriends. And then that buildings weren't hit by falling drone, missile or missile interceptor debris.
Figuring out the truth behind that will probably never happen because Ukraine & Russia are both littered with debris and there's no real independent investigations that could determine if a building was hit intentionally, unintentionally, by Russian or Ukrainian missiles. Especially after Ukraine has previously been caught lying about this, ie the claims that it was a 'Russian' missiles that killed killed a couple of people in Poland. After much denial, Ukraine admitted that it was their interceptors they'd fired at a Russian missile, missed and the interceptors failed to self-destruct.
We're meant to believe that out of thousands of missiles fired into the sky, this is the first and only time that's ever happened. We're also meant to believe that Ukraine hasn't lobbed well over 1,000 drones into Russia in the last couple of weeks, prompting this escalation, which was then escalated even further with the bridge and strategic aircraft attacks. Oh, and WaPo's article that these attacks, along with the murder of a Ukrainian politician as he dropped his kid off at school in Spain just signalled an escalation in Ukraine's 'Dirty War'..
How many more people from prison can they volunteer ?
How will they survive this years winter, considering how many oil facilities are getting destroyed lately especially since Ukraine is no longer restrained by American conditions of cowardice. ?
Its going to be a very cold winter, and next years volunteers might just die of cold this winter sleeping drunk in the street.
> Or just throwing darts at a bear..
I remember reading in my youth a piece about Britain entering WWII likening it to “attacking a Tiger with a pea shooter”…
If the US and Europe had acted with any real sense of urgency and decisiveness, Putin’s “Special Military Operation” would have been over in a matter of days, leaving the bear nursing a blood nose…
If the US and Europe had acted with any real sense of urgency and decisiveness, Putin’s “Special Military Operation” would have been over in a matter of days, leaving the bear nursing a blood nose…
That was either never the plan, or just demonstrated the incompetence of our 'leaders'. So we'd used Minsk to train and arm Ukraine after the mauling the UAF took during the civil war. 800k or so troops trained, equipped and poised to retake Donbas and Crimea. Except Russia knew that was coming and intervened. Ukraine might have had enough to achieve their objectives, if Russia had stayed out of it. Then came the build-up for the much hyped, and publicised Spring/Summer offensive. We scrapped together some more kit, sent that to Ukraine who kept saying they didn't have enough to meet our 'leaders' advance publicity goals. But our 'leaders' were determined to beat Russia using every available Ukrainian..
So they tried, and ran right into the Surovikin line. Zaluzhny was critical of Ukraine's own 'leadership' and the decision to split their forces, but lost that battle to Sirskiy, who just helped Russia demonstrate the old adage of divide and conquer. But then Sirskiy had also lead the defence of Bakhmut, wasting more Ukrainian lives and equipment, and of course the ill-fated invasion of Kursk.. and he's still trying to invade their while Russia continues to advance.
So Ukraine never really had enough men or material, either because we couldn't, or wouldn't supply that. When it did cobble together some, it arguably wasted opportunities. And now it's probably too late because it's campaign season, Russia has been building up their own forces and is now pushing in the North, South and East. And being a war of attrition, their losses are accelerating. But our 'leaders' probably knew this, hence the desperation around trying to get an unconditional ceasefire to buy Ukraine some time.. Which given Ukraine's actions over the last few weeks, Russia isn't going to give them. Ukraine's best chance at survival now is another coup and new leadership that would be willing to negotiate peace in good faith.
>” And Ukraine's escalation has obviously pissed off Putin..”
Putin put himself in that position, remember it was his choice and his alone to invade Ukraine in 2014 and 2022 without provocations by Ukraine. Prior to 2022 there was no evidence that Ukraine in itself was threatening to invade Russia. And whilst Crimea was a sore point, there seemed to be a working accord. The evidence points to Putin’s desire to recreate the USSR and to stifle NATO and Europe.
War is never civil, and definitely could not be with the state of US politics these days. It's all about demonising and dehumanising the "others", so if it came to a "civil" war, the "others" aren't human can be dealt with in any way "they" choose.
Only civil wars take place in the US
And they are the only ones that they've won without everyone else doing all the work..
(And yes - I include the unpleasantness of the late 1700s - most of the real work was done by the French..)
Thank goodness that this "small military operation" was only supposed to last a few weeks.
It's astonishing what a few people hell-bent on freedom are capable of doing, even when everyone else is on the verge abandoning them.
I salute the people who have given their lives in the defense of their ideals, and those who continue to risk everything every day in order to defend their homeland.
As far as I'm concerned, being a Ukranian soldier is a medal in itself these days.
They would prefer to live and they would not have Russians in their recently acquired country at all if they hadn't killed 13,000 ethnic Russians that lived in eastern Ukraine, said that they would make their children cower in basements and we had not broken agreements on neutrality and NATO expansion. Finally, turning the propaganda on Russia when they kicked out the Soros NGOs and took back control of their central bank. Not to mention the Minsk agreements which Merkel publicly slipped out were just to provide Ukraine time to build up their military to fight Russia. Oh and the history of Western Ukraine fighting with the Germans in WW2 doesn't endear them to Russia either. So you carry on believing your government's (whoever that is) propaganda all the way to destruction in a pointless war that could easily end up as an extinction event because some greedy, corrupt, pyschopaths want to own everything.
I bet you believe Building 7 spontaneously collapsed don't you?
What's amazing is you can't respond to anybody whom is better informed than you. What do you dispute about what he said?
It's all well known, no new information - why don't you listen to Merkel say it yourself.
[3] Interview with Angela Merkel. DIE ZEIT 51/2022. Merkel’s former foreign and security policy advisor, Christoph Heusgen, believes that the poor reputation of the Minsk Agreement is unjustified. ‘It is as good or bad as the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia guaranteed the territorial integrity of, among other countries, Ukraine, or the United Nations Charter. ‘Putin has thrown all three out, but that doesn’t make them bad. Putin is bad because he doesn’t respect international law.’ Website ntv, 8.2. 2024, https://www.n‑tv.de/politik/Heusgen-Es-darf-nicht-so-ausgehen-wie-im-Ersten-Weltkrieg-article24720868.html
> and we had not broken agreements on neutrality and NATO expansion.
The thing you are forgetting is that NATO didn't expand.
Those former eastern-block (and now after Russia's own actions the centuries-long neutral Sweden) countries were so afraid of Russia coming and doing exactly what they are doing in Ukraine to them that they begged NATO to accept them. NATO didn't expand. NATO didn't go to those countries and force them or even ask them to join NATO. No. Russia forced those countries to join NATO for their own self-preservation. All the countries who've joined NATO since 1991 have done so at their own request - no, near-on demands - they be let in, not NATO's.
And those countries were right. The 2 invasions of Ukraine in the last decade (the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea and the 2022 war Russia started) along with the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 all demonstrate that beyond any reasonable doubt.
Only someone deluded or a paid shill would state otherwise.
The amusing thing about the way that Putin's useful idiots prattle on about how 'NATO expanded' to Russia's borders is that they clearly haven't realised that Norway was a founding member of NATO, and that Norway and Russia share a direct land border.
There has never been a day in NATO's existence when Russian (not just Soviet, but actual Russian) territory was not in direct contact with a NATO member country.
One person charged with looking after a Nation cannot trust the safety of their people to the goodwill of the US/NATO alliance.
There is a wilful refusal to accept the US Empire is not popular with its victims. The population of the West are mostly deluded about how evil our governments actually are, with the Intelligence Services running Terrorist organisations from WW2 to present day.
If the position was reversed would you want to Trust the USA?
People on these threads are completely convinced that all the countries with resources the USA would like to dominate are evil.
Not at all, I've never considered Greenland to be evil, for example. Trump is a clown, he's not as clever as he thinks he is, nor is he as clever as Putin or Xi Jinping. That, however, has nothing to do with the value and solidarity of NATO which is guaranteed by all its members.
You have never looked at a map.
Russia has been fighting to expand to physical borders like mountains and the sea for 500 years.
This war was always going to happen, NATO or no NATO...
Every single russian tsar and dictator has always only ever tried to do the same. Its like they all goto the same school.
Only idiots who dont know how empires push to their physical limit never see this.
THis has always been true of all empires, they always push to mountains or the sea.
It's the US and her vassals. It's extremely tedious to rebut this nonsense.
Just ask the father of Canda's most famous fan of Blackface who suggests "murdering Jews in the Holocaust" is insufficient to be considered not of good character, and shouldn't be deported as a Nazi.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/newly-declassified-docs-reveal-why-canada-didnt-strip-nazis-of-citizenship/
Total shock that the Nepo baby raised in that house supports Genocide and Blackface.JTA — In 1967, Canada’s justice minister was asked to strip citizenship from a former Nazi who had been sentenced to death in the Soviet Union.
The minister, Pierre Trudeau, declined to do so. Although the USSR had convicted the Latvian man of murdering Jews in the Holocaust, Trudeau argued that Canada had not erred in granting him citizenship when he first applied.
“The applicant’s obligation is to satisfy the Court that he is of good character,” Trudeau, who would later become Canada’s prime minister, wrote in a legal opinion at the time. “He is not required to satisfy the Court that he, at no time in his past, committed an opprobrious act. … From a practical, and indeed reasonable, point of view, few, if any, applicants could meet a requirement of that kind.”
Not a single member of NATO has any interest in securing peace [3], it was a collection of State hosting Nazi Armies[1], it's now a collection of State backing a Banderite Regime in Ukraine[2], Al-Qaeda in Syria, Zionist State Terrorist group in occupied Palestine.
[1] https://asawinstanley.substack.com/p/natos-secret-nazi-armies
[2] https://www.declassifieduk.org/uk-commanders-in-ukraine-met-neo-nazi-linked-national-guard-to-deepen-military-cooperation/
[3] https://www.declassifieduk.org/uk-leaders-have-betrayed-those-who-fought-in-ww2/
https://link.springer.com/rwe/10.1007/978-3-031-40546-4_65The elements involved in Gladio, mainly composed of former fascists and neo-fascists from the far-right, engaged in covert operations and what came to be known as the “Strategy of Tension” (1969–80), which aimed to manipulate and control public opinion using covert and psychological operations, including false-flag terrorism.
This chapter describes the reactions of NATO, the CIA and MI6 to the discovery of the secret stay-behind armies. The chapter details how NATO reacted defensive and at times inconsistent and tells the story of how NATO Spokesman Jean Marcotta on Monday 5 November 1990 at SHAPE headquarters in Mons, Belgium, first denied that NATO had ever been involved in secret warfare, whereupon the next day another NATO spokesman explained that NATO's statement of the previous day had been false, adding that NATO never commented on matters of military secrecy. Thereafter NATO ambassadors on 7 November 1990 were informed behind closed doors by NATO secretary-general Manfred Wörner and Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) US General John Galvin. The chapter describes how written requests by the author for further information on the stay-behind networks and NATO’s stay-behind command centres “Clandestine Planning Committee” (CPC) and “Allied Clandestine Committee” (ACC) were declined in subsequent years. The chapter reports how during the same years specific data on CPC and ACC surfaced in Italy. General Gerardo Serravalle, who commanded the Italian Gladio secret army from 1971 to 1974, and General Paolo Inzerilli, who commanded the Italian stay-behind Gladio from 1974 to 1986, both confirmed in their books on the topic that the ACC and the CPC had been founded at the explicit order of NATO's Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE).
https://phpisn.ethz.ch/lory1.ethz.ch/collections/coll_gladio/synopsis76c1.html?navinfo=15301
Quote: "Ukraine fighting with the Germans in WW2 doesn't endear them to Russia either"
Hmm, Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact anyone?
Russia (more specifically the Soviet Union) being a 'friend' of Germany from 1939 to 1941 (formally a non aggression pact), and both parties instigating a joint invasion of Poland in 1939, and so Russia was one of the direct causes of WW2 kicking off in the first place.
The Pact only ended in 41 due to Germany terminating it, when they decided to turn on Russia (Operation Barbarossa). The Pact was originally meant to last 10 years, so if Germany had not have terminated it, then who knows what Russia might have gotten up to during 1941 and onwards, if they'd have stayed 'friends' with Germany during that time?
Russia was invaded by Britain and France between WW1 and WW2 in attempt to control the East of Ukraine.
WW2 motivation in Germany are as much to do with Zionist intrigues and the useful Scapegoating of them for the failure of the German Army.
Essentially all the way along the US are playing both sides, the Germans public are being told they are winning, winning, oh yes, it's all over and the Zionists get Palestine.
This does have a kernel of truth to it, in that the Zionist Movement was involved in getting the US involved, but it's more that Britain used the Zionist Movement to dismember the Ottoman Empire, which is discussed in the Future of Palestine Memo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Future_of_Palestine.
So essentially the Allies all agree to support Zionism in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambon_letter , and Wilson is brought on board https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/british-army-palestine
With the US involved and Palestine promised to the Zionists, the Stab in the Back myth is born, despite Zionism being a minority concern in Germany.
>>>Russia was invaded by Britain and France between WW1 and WW2 in attempt to control the East of Ukraine<<<
The 'invasion' was in areas (including Murmansk & Vladivostok) controlled by and in support of multiple anti Bolshevik forces that were fighting the Red army during the revolution and the following civil war. Russia did not exist as a functioning country during this period, many* of the current eastern European & middle eastern states achieved independence from not only Imperial Russia but also the collapsed German, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. Ukraine was an independent Soviet republic for three years until occupied by the red army and brought under Moscow control with the formation of the U.S.S.R. Stalin ordered the Red army into the Baltic states & half of Poland in Sept. 1939 and then two months later into Finland.
Reasserting control over all of the previously Imperial Russian territories has been a goal of Russian leadership since their initial loss during the civil war and then again after the 1990s when they'd taken the first opportunity to leave.
Many history books are available that cover this period in great detail.
# # # # # #
>>>Allies all agree to support Zionism<<<
The "Right to self determination" is a good thing except when it involves the subjugation of "others"
The "Right to self determination" is a good thing except when it involves the subjugation of "others".
Zionism only relationship with self-determination is that it requires the denial of the Palestinian people's rights to self-determination.
It might be better to reply on this topic rather than polluting other threads https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2025/06/02/ukrainian_drones_russia_bombing/
"Russia was one of the direct causes of WW2 kicking off in the first place."
That's BS. Germany would have attacked in Russia every case. Unlike you, Stalin knew Hitler really, really wanted more space (food/oil) from Ukraina and that meant attacking Soviet Union.
Stalin just didn't have an army and he needed time. Don't they teach any actual history in US?
I've had the pleasure of travelling and working in Europe, in Bulgaria, Croatia, Romania, I've worked with Ukrainians, Poles, Russians, North Macedonians.
Over much beer and good food, I've been gently shown I didn't understand shit about European history, and pointed in the direction of useful books and basic background.
I dimly thought Britain was basically the "good guys" but more than that, it's the omission of things, the lack of a holistic view of the cultural connections across Europe.
Once you learn some more about the history, it becomes very difficult to integrate that into a moral framework that treats all human life as equal, or economic actors as rational.
These are actually about different subject (Britain / Arabic history) but the interactions with European history are illuminating.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Never-Dried-Peoples-History/dp/1905192126 / https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Arab-Peoples-Albert-Hourani/dp/0571226647
>>>Stalin just didn't have an army <<<
Not one that up to the job.
In May 1941 Russia had the biggest armed forces in the world with vastly more troops tanks & aircraft (of good enough quality) than anyone else. What they didn't have was enough competent leadership due to Stalin previously removing (with extreme prejudice) any officer who exhibited the slightest amount of independent thought, add to that the lack of adequate preparation / standing orders / logistical support or even up to date training (you name it, it was missing) and instead of retreating with a series of delaying actions and you end up with the absolute disaster that is the first month or so of Russian response to Barbarossa.
Properly prepared, the Red Army could have slowed the Germans (who had no strategic equipment reserves) to within two hundred miles of the border* by the time winter arrived. The knock on positive effects from this on the soviet war economy (not moving factories!) would make the 1942 German advances near impossible to achieve.
* Still taking massive casualties but at least getting something useful from the pain.
You obviously dont know history. Russia has been invaded many times because there are no physical boundaries... its all flat land from Germany to Mongolia.
Napoleon, the Germans, the Mongols, etc all just walked in.
Russian doesnt care about losing millions, its how they fight, they dont care about how much they lose, all they care is that you will not be willing to pay the price even if its far lower.
Thats what happened with Finland in WW2, Finland lost a fraction of what Russia did , but in the end, Russia won and got concessions.
RUssia will never stop, the next dictator will continue to push just like all the past czars, and dictators for th epast 500 years.
Any proof of that or did you invent it yourself?Funny that no-one else knows about that at all.
I'll just drop this here again, because you seem to have missed it-
https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 to be 51,000–54,0008: 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian forces9, and estimated 6,500 members of armed groups10), and 37-39,000 injured (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200 Ukrainian forces11 and 15,800-16,200 members of armed groups.
There were also regular reports from the OSCE regarding ceasefire violations by both sides, but those stopped when the SMO started and the old reports seem to be memory holed, or just hard to find again. That you don't know about casualties during Ukraine's civil war is just an example of your own ignorance. Deliberate, or otherwise..
1. The SMO was screwed up by our deception.
2. Ordinary Ukrainians do not want this.
3. I think their soldiers would prefer their lives with their families than a salute and the hardened gung-ho element really did include a lot of Nazis.
Oh and you know some Ukrainians do you?
I do and when I showed them what you’ve posted they said it was total crap. I also know an expat Russian who said the same thing as the Ukrainians.
So, you are a middle-ranking employee of Tupelov in the aircraft maintenance and parts supply department.
At the start of the week, you might have felt disconnected from the Special Action with Ukraine. Obviously the news tells you its Ukraine's own fault and you might feel a bit of pride in your work for the Russian nation but the actual combat is happening far away.
Now, Ukrainian intelligence know your name, possibly a photo, where you live, your bank account details, possibly things about your family and health.
You'd be foolish not to think what that might mean.
Perhaps the next parcel delivered to your apartment will not be a box of chocolates from your parents but something spicier.
Perhaps someone will stop you in the stairwell and suggest, strongly, that making copies of aircraft status reports and uploading them to an anonymous web server might be in your best interests.
It might well weigh on your mind.
Now, Ukrainian intelligence know your name, possibly a photo, where you live, your bank account details, possibly things about your family and health.You'd be foolish not to think what that might mean.
Ukraine has assassinated (ie murdered) enough Russian bloggers, journalists or just civilians for Ukraine's inference to be obvious. They've also assassinated (ie murdered) plenty of their own people, or just an American journalist, Gonzalo Lira who dared to criticise the Kiev regime. If he'd been a drug smuggling basketball player, Biden might have swapped him for an arms dealer, but he wasn't so Biden just ate ice cream and let him die instead.
No, that's called war. You attack, you get consequences. Too bad. Russian troll is obvious.
Too bad nafobot is obvious. Currently it isn't a war, but an SMO and possibly soon an ATO. Either way, wars, or armed conflicts are still subject to laws that are supposed to make it illegal to attack civilians. If you do, that can and sometimes is treated as murder and would be a war crime. Yet Ukraine regularly murders journalists, bloggers, concert attendees, drops bridges on passenger trains. The kind of stuff things like the Geneva Convention(s) were intended to prevent, and to keep armed conflicts vaguely civilised.
Oh, and of course Ukraine still proudly runs their kill list site-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrotvorets
Inciting and inviting the murder of anyone Ukraine deems undesirable. Which includes politicians, journalists etc etc. Strange the way that site is still reachable, yet sites like RT are blocked.. But interesting the way you seem to condone murder of anyone deemed an enemy of the state. Which would be a shame, if Russia started copying Ukraine. Or pehaps it has, ie the strange case of Ukrainian rent-boys and an attempted attack on some of Starmer's property in an 'attack on democracy'.
I would think that publicly stating that you have exposed details of strategic personnel, communications, and supply chains would be an effective way to throw your opposition into panic, and at the very least significantly disrupt them by causing Russia to have to either completely change them, or expend additional resources protecting them, not to mention the effect on morale.
As a psy-op, simply stating this, without doing anything with the information, would be enough to cause this effect, if it is believed. Defacing the website goes some way to proving it, although it only demonstrates that the website was compromised. I'd not be surprised to see high-level personnel unexpectedly dying in a "terrorist attack", or supply-line warehouses unexpectedly burning down in the coming weeks or months to further demonstrate it.
Only of you not only get ALL of the data, but that the data you do get is correct. IIRC, the USSR stole a lot of data re. Concord, but didn't get enough and/or it was detected they were stealing so was "salted" with some false information, leading to problems with their own "Concordski". Something related to the engines/afterburners/intakes seems to ring a vague bell in the back of my mind.
There were, and possibly still are, Ukrainian ransom outfits. Doesn't mean they are state-sanctioned.
We do know that Russia has state financed such outfits, and doesn't go after any other outfits that only attacks the west. Also see: China.
We can be certain that Ukraine will, and likely already does go after cyber criminals attacking the west. This is what happens when you want to join a community, such as EU or NATO.
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