UK CyberEM Command to spearhead new era of armed conflict

Revealing more details about the Cyber and Electromagnetic (CyberEM) military domain, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) says "there are pockets of excellence" but improvements must be made to ensure the country's capability meets the needs of national defense. The government's Strategic Defence Review [PDF] was published on …

[Guy de Loimbard]

Same idea, different messenger

This concept of interconnected assets across a digital battlespace has been going round the houses for decades.

Let's hope there's some substance to this, not just more posturing from politicians and bureaucrats to stay in power.

Also, most of these soundbites are just word spaghetti that the person delivering it really doesn't understand.

The devil is in the detail, ALWAYS!

Oh cynical me!

As for the following quote " the report described the UK's armed forces as "hollowed out," "consistently overstretched," and constantly battling "unrelenting pressure" on its personnel levels."

To paraphrase the late great, R Lee Ermy in Full Metal Jacket " Well no shit"

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Same idea, different messenger

Guy de Loimbard,

It's not new, but it is new. In that there are now loads of weapons systems in design that rely on networking. Again that's not new - but it's no longer just the super high-end stuff that needs to do it. Plus you get much better effects from networking loads of sensors and if you're operating with allies you might want to do things on-the-fly - with stuff that might not have been tested beforehand. Hence you're going to need the skills to do this, plus to stop the enemy buggering it up.

Oh, and seeing how important this is to us, the enemy also need to to do it. So how can we screw things up so theirs doesn't work.

Add electronic warfare to this. You might jam the enemy's radios. His network stops. But now you might also want to disrupt his network in some other way, by hacking it, infecting it, disrupting it. Which is a different skillset, your electronic warfare people might not already have.

Two, final points. I suspect the Navy and RAF are better at this than the army. So hopefully by integrating command, you can spread best practice around. Or put the worst ones in charge so they can bugger up everyone else...

A concrete example. FADS - Future Air Dominance System - because you gotta have an acronym. This is the official project name for Type 45 air warfare destroyer replacement. It's all about the networks. It relies on them. Therefore they have to actually work. Rather than being a nice-to-have.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Same idea, different messenger

The assumption that the RAF and RN will be better at running cyber ops than the Army should really be dispelled. Whilst a few of the systems those two arms use are highly technical, not everyone in the Army is a club carrying grunt.

Cyber is a team game and each arm has its own people to assess, defend and secure. The biggest challenge any command will face is how to find the right people for the roles that they have and, if they show talent for the operation, how to _retain_ them in the face of the posting & promotion cycle and private sector offering better money and prospects. The alternative is the use of reservists and the goodwill/charity of people willing to give up their free time to fill a role that pays maybe enough to fill their car on the way Wiltshire.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Same idea, different messenger

Anon,

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was more talking about electronic warfare. Which I think the RAF have been looking at a lot more in the last decade, and the Navy are quite hot on. My impression is it's an area the army have neglected. Partly because they've been fighting wars against lower-tech opponents and partly due to lack of budget. But I'm also dubious about some of the choices the army have made in the last ten years about spending the budget they do have.

I doubt any of the three services are as up on network security as they need to be. And probably not the offensive side, either.

All this seems to be merging, whether we like it or not. So we may as well try to keep up. Modern radars are also radios and jammers - and can do all three simultaneously. We're now fielding laser and microwave weapons, drones, networked sensors and soon drone ships and submarines. Some armed. If your sensors aren't networked, they're less effective at spotting harder to detect stealthy enemies. If they are networked, they're at risk of disruption - or worse.

To defeat the enemy - you need to disrupt theirs. Welcome to the future.

[amanfromMars 1]

Softly, Softly Catchee Monkey and Donkeys, Elephants and Wannabe Lions and Cozy Bears

"The domain is the foundation of the new Digital Targeting Web that will enable choice and speed in deciding how to degrade or destroy an identified target."

What new systems administrations will decide and provide operations that allow and accommodate vital engagement for critical upgrades from an identified target ..... a Subjective Object of Particular and Peculiar Interest ..... and which may even welcome such as could be deemed an Absolutely Fabulous Fabless Intrusion whenever in positive support of Almighty Interventions.

And if a "Will you walk into my parlour?" said a spider to a fly Invitation be too suggestive of an ACTive RAT Trap gravely to be regarded and at all and any great cost avoided, prepare yourselves once again to be blindsided and left trailing behind with similarly confusing event programs in the caboose of progress that collate and present histories that don't go away, you know. ...... Secret military AI project was ‘best in world’... then MoD shut it down

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Softly, Softly Catchee Monkey and Donkeys, Elephants and Wannabe Lions and Cozy Bears

I would walk into the trap. I am too valuable to die, I can keep my mouth shut and am hard-working. Most prefer cooperation. And win-win agreements.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Camouflage ?

Why is the person wearing a uniform designed to blend into North European woodland?

If they are doing cyber , why do they need to hide?

If there are combat fatigues for cyber - shouldn't it be a black hoodie ?

[Clausewitz4.1]

Re: Camouflage ?

"If they are doing cyber , why do they need to hide?"

Because developing cyber weapons and exploits takes a shitload of knowledge and time and money. Most prefer to pay zero-day brokers rather than developing an unit to build it themselves. This for the offensive part.

For the defensive part, because private Keys need to stay private to have secure communications.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Camouflage ?

So do they switch the uniform to "Six-Color Desert Pattern" if the attackers are Iranian or "2-Color Snow Pattern" if they are Russian ?

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: Camouflage ?

Beret and stripy jumper, when exercising against the French?

[amanfromMars 1]

Re: Camouflage and Misunderestimation ?

Because developing cyber weapons and exploits takes a shitload of knowledge and time and money. .... Clausewitz4.1

A.N.Others with the requisite shitloads of knowledge would disagree, Clausewitz4.1, and admit developing cyber weapons and exploits takes them surprisingly little time and hardly any money ....... and thus can the Return on Investment [ROI] be absolutely fabulous and correspondingly spectacular. ..... and such makes the Virtual Art attractively addictive too.

[Clausewitz4.1]

Re: Camouflage and Misunderestimation ?

"developing cyber weapons and exploits takes them surprisingly little time and hardly any money"

You clearly don't know the business. Stuxnet took more than 1 nation to build and a lot of months ( not leaking nothing, source are the news ) and materials to be bought.

[amanfromMars 1]

Apples is different from potatoes as fruits are from vegetables.

You clearly don't know the business. Stuxnet took more than 1 nation to build and a lot of months ( not leaking nothing, source are the news ) and materials to be bought. ..... Clausewitz4.1

I have assumed the business you are referring to is akin to the physical hardware and applications side of such matters, Clausewitz4.1, whereas I was commenting on the software and secure proprietary instruction set side which initiates and controls all to follow specific orders and this is an altogether quite different business.

[Clausewitz4.1]

Re: Apples is different from potatoes as fruits are from vegetables.

"I was commenting on the software and secure proprietary instruction set"

Ohhhh you are talking about THIS specific secret. Sorry, there are too many, some I don't recon instantly, others are deeply buried into the past.

Politics will solve this one, with help from the big good / sometimes bad guys from the high command.

I will accept their decision, as a free man, of course.

[martinusher]

Not excelusively a Military Domain

Cyber is a good example of where civilian and military overlap. Cyber problems affect all of us equally because all systems are potential targets, targets that are far more likely to be attacked by criminals than by nation states. So separating things into 'military' and 'non-military' just dilutes resources. The military may have greater need for electronic warfare and countermeasures at this time but even that's not a given, their edge is merely because they've been at it longer with far larger budgets but the civilian sector has already used (for example) communications intercepts to hack cars and entry systems and mobile jammers to disable security systems.

[tiggity]

"declared the UK unprepared for an all-out war."

Except there's' no need for (or likelihood of) the UK being involved in an all out war*.

.. I'm aware of various political & media hype about the Russia threat in Europe, but it is all hype (unless Ukraine is biggest deception in military history) as Russia is not a viable threat in terms of conventional** military action.

* Let's get rid of this idea of UK being a major military power, that was a long time back in history, we don't emulate historic actions such as heretic burning so why bother about pretending to be a big military power.

** and if it all goes nuke, then the UK is ******* anyway!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha!.....More SW1 Output Paraphrased "We are doing something".

Quote: John Healey spake thusly: "...the Strategic Defence Review will make Britain safer, more secure at home, and stronger abroad."

(1) Yup....our rivers are overflowing with sewage.

(2) Yup....our seven billion pound aircraft carrier is disabled......a propeller fell off!

(3) Yup....six Type 45 Desroyers are in dry dock...."dead in the water" because the gas turbine cooling does not work!

(4) Afghanistan 1842.....British Empire retreats!

(5) Afghanistan 1880.....British Empire retreats!

(6) Afghanistan 1989.....Russian Empire retreats!

(7) Afghanistan 2021.....American and British Empires retreat!

...to get to the point.......Obviously John Healey has learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Quote (George Santayana): "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."