back to article Ukraine war spurred infosec vet Mikko Hyppönen to pivot to drones

Mikko Hyppönen has spent the last 34 years creating security software that defends against criminals and state-backed actors, but now he's moving onto drone warfare. Hyppönen has worked at Data Fellows, which produced its first antivirus software in 1994 and later became the renowned Finnish security vendor F-Secure. In 2022, …

  1. DarkwavePunk

    Legend

    See title. That is all

  2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    Picking a side

    Both my grandfathers fought the Russians in the Second World War

    I am not sure that will be well received by those who see the US, UK and Russia as Allied Forces, fighting Hitler and his fascist minions, without additional context.

    1. Casca Silver badge

      Re: Picking a side

      Then they are history ignorant morons

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Casca - Re: Picking a side

        Which morons, those who are talking about the fight against Hitler or about the fight against USSR ?

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Picking a side

      Yeah, I was going to point out the same thing. The wording certainly implies that they fought on the Axis side...

      1. Casca Silver badge

        Re: Picking a side

        They fought on the finnish side and against the shit stain of nation that invaded them

        1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

          Re: Finland the only "Democracy" to Fight with Nazi Germany

          So Nazis then. During World War II, Finland was classified as an ally of Nazi Germany, though it retained a democratic government. Finland joined the war against the Soviet Union in 1941, initially as a co-belligerent with Germany, aiming to regain territories lost in the Winter War. While not a formal member of the Axis powers, Finland's cooperation with Germany in the war effort led to it being recognized as an ally by the Paris Peace Treat

          1. smalldot

            Re: Finland the only "Democracy" to Fight with Nazi Germany

            Yes, the Winter War and Soviet occupation of Baltics 1940 likely convinced Finnish leadership that Soviet Union would attack again in any case. Thus pushing the border East was seen as an advantage, and Germany as ally better than fighting alone.

            1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

              Re: Finland the only "Democracy" to Fight with Nazi Germany

              Fine to support Nazis because Russia Bad.

          2. Casca Silver badge

            Re: Finland the only "Democracy" to Fight with Nazi Germany

            Fuck off you hysterical history ignorant moron

            Weird that they wanted back the land that your hero country russia stole from them...

            1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

              Re: Finland the only "Democracy" to Fight with Nazi Germany

              The basement Banderite rises.

              1. Casca Silver badge

                Re: Finland the only "Democracy" to Fight with Nazi Germany

                Your hysterics would be funny if it wasnt so stupid

                1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                  Re: Basement Banderite writes..

                  So dispute something with evidence, otherwise it's clearly an admission that you accept the conclusion.

                  You are a rude shouty person, who doesn't seem to have anything to say. Between me and you, I really want to be wrong, because it's fucking monstrous waking up everyday knowing my taxes are funding Nazis and Genocide.

                  Please explain why I'm misinformed, really I genuinely hate this conclusion but, I do a lot of research on the computer for various things, I'm good at finding things out. All the evidence points towards certain conclusions.

                  You for example seem angry and poorly informed, you feel your family are being smeared for protecting their country. I imagine you feel "I'd ally with the devil himself to protect my home".

                  There is some truth to that, I can empathise. But you're Basement Banderite (Nazi Fuck)^3 you picked your side of the line.

                  You choose to look away, and what's more you expect me to be cowed by your insults. People don't support this stuff, of that I'm sure. So the truth, that's important for people to understand.

                  Zionism or Bandera, Ukrainian Fascist Nationalists are evil.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Picking a side

        My grandfather was a Battle of Britain hero - he brought down more German aircraft than any pilot in the RAF

        Yes, Oppa Karl, the worst mechanic in the Luftwaffe

        1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

          Re: Picking a side

          Spare 50p for a Falklands veteran.

          Here you go mate, thanks for your service.

          "Gracias, señor".

    3. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

      Re: Picking a side

      Yes, It's amazing how the people fighting the Russians during WW2 seems to consider themselves the good guys. Especially in Ukraine

      Meet the Lonely Ukrainian Jew Fighting His Country’s New Fondness for Nazis

      The current anti-Russian government has enlisted history in its cause, working to rehabilitate people and groups that fought against the Soviet Union — no matter what crimes they may have committed against the Jews

      When the government, state and civil society start to promote these organizations as heroes and those who fought for Ukrainian independence and whitewash their participation in the Holocaust actively and aggressively, I decided that my obligation and duty was to speak out against this,” Dolinsky told The Forward. “This is a denial of basic moral sense.”

      Today, Dolinsky, the 49-year-old director of the Ukrainian Jewish Committee, is immersed in a campaign against the valorization of the SS as anti-Communist heroes.

      “When I was a kid someone told me that I’m a Yid,” recalled Dolinsky in a recent interview with the Forward. “I came home and asked my mom what it meant. She told me that we are Jews and we are different, don’t pay attention. For a long time afterwards I was confused and ashamed that I’m different and not like other kids.”

      https://archive.ph/uQEZk#selection-911.1-979.324

      1. IGotOut Silver badge

        Re: Picking a side

        Yes Finland sided with the Germans.

        It was a case of the enemy of my enemy type scenario.

        The big difference is Hitler had no intention of conquering Finland and enslaving the population, whereas Russia did.

        History is NEVER black and white, just varying shades of grey.

        1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

          Re: Picking a side

          So it's Okay to work with Nazis because Russia Bad?

          The EU position is unchanged from 1940s.

          1. IGotOut Silver badge

            Re: Picking a side

            "So it's Okay to work with Nazis because Russia Bad?"

            Dear comrade

            If given the choice between your entire family being wiped out or living with a bunch of assholes next door, what choice will you make?

            Neither choice is good.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

              Re: Picking a side

              I'm a Brit, we Picked the Russians over the Nazis. Are you suggesting we made the wrong choice. I must have missed that day in school.

              1. Casca Silver badge

                Re: Picking a side

                You are not a brit. You are a history ignorant moron who spout drivel on this forum.

                Just fuck off to twitter where you belong

                1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                  Re: Basement Banderite writes..

                  An advocate for Nazis in WW2 and the modern era. You're a despicable stain on humanity. I'm a proud Brit, and I'm proud my country backed the Russian to stomp you Nazi fucks into the soil.

                  I'm proud of my country for allying with the Russians, and I look forward to it waking up, and stomping you Nazi fucks into the soil, again.

                  1. Casca Silver badge

                    Re: Basement Banderite writes..

                    LMAO, calling anyone a nazi who is against you. How original.

                    You have no fucking clue about the history in your own country. Proud about how you bombed villages in the middle east? Proud about what you did in India?

                    Just fuck off you history ignorant moron.

                    1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                      Re: Basement Banderite writes..

                      You are a Nazi advocating for supporting Nazis in WW2 because you were going to be fine.

                      You are a Nazi advocating for supporting Nazis in Ukraine because you (Nazi Fuck)^3 still feel the slap the Russians gave your grandfather, they were too merciful with your sort. Churchill wanted to shoot the lot of you without trial, which the Russians prevented, another thing you'll never forgive them for.

                      We were less bad than the Nazis - that's the start of Movie History - all the stuff before that is Black and White, Ain't nobody got time for that shit.

          2. EvilDrSmith Silver badge

            Re: Picking a side

            Well, from September 1939 until 22 June 1941, the Soviet Union was working with the Nazis.

            They shared in the war of aggression against Poland.

            The Soviet Union also supplied 100,000s of tonnes of critical war materials to Nazi Germany every month, breaking the British blockade of Germany (it's amazing how much attention is given to the Germany U-boat campaign against the UK, but how little to the effective British blockade of Germany in WWI and less -effective but not immaterial blockade in WWII).

            The Soviet Union quite literally enabled the Germans to build, arm and fuel the armies, navies and airforces that were used to invade Western Europe, sink British merchant ships, bomb British towns and cities, and - ironically - invade the Soviet Union. That last clearly proof that no 'good' deed goes unpunished.

            But if we are to talk about working with the Nazis, the most conspicuous state to do that in WWII was the Soviet Union (or Russia, if you prefer - some people like to conflate the two).

            1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

              Re: Picking a side

              You are not going to make the Nazis okay to support, or the Red Army not the reason the Nazis lost.

              British history, before WW2, During WW2 and after is pretty shitty, included the present day where we are complicit in the Genocide of Palestine.

              Russia/USSR is/was orders of magnitude less evil than the Nazis, who remain the Europeans sole benchmark for evil since the industrialised slaughter of colonised people doesn't seem to affect them emotionally. The French should really be our word for Racial Supremacism, and the US Jim Crow laws about "the one drop of blood rule" were toned down by the Nazis to "One Grandparent".

        2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Picking a side

          >It was a case of the enemy of my enemy type scenario.

          Winston Churchill: 'If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.' (When asked about being an ally of Stalin)

          1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

            Re: Churchill was a Nazi himself - he couldn't be bothered learning German

            Churchill was a Nazi, responsible for the Head-Choppers in Saudia, He's a figure indistinguishable from Hitler, a fan favourite of Racial supremacists and the ignorant, racist, and ignorant racists.

            The Drunken Racist, completed the work of Lord North in the destruction of Britain influence, leading to the complete loss of the Sterling Zone.

            It's an insult to the brave Men and Women of Britain, and the half a billion members of the Empire, who didn't get any say in the matter, to suggest the fat drunk did more to help than hinder.

            He lost virtually all British equipment, leading to our desperate pleading for arms from the Septics. He's a disgrace who in any just world would have faced a tribunal for high treason.

            1. EvilDrSmith Silver badge
              Coffee/keyboard

              Re: Churchill was a Nazi himself - he couldn't be bothered learning German

              "Churchill was a Nazi,"

              Bwah-ha- ha- ha...

              Oh, my,.... oh deary me...

              >snigger<

              There was us thinking that you were actually serious with your posts.

              Now we understand that you're the comedy act.

              1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                Re: Churchill was a Nazi himself - he couldn't be bothered learning German

                Churchill was a racial supremacist responsible for the industrialised slaughter of millions.

                He was by every measure a fascist dedicate to denying people freedom throughout the globe, including at home in UK.

                Churchill was a cunt, an utter cunt, without redemption. It's only in our utterly disfunctional country, that he wasn't tar and feathered and buried upside down.

                https://jacobin.com/2018/01/winston-churchill-british-empire-colonialism

              2. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                Re: Churchill was a Nazi himself - he couldn't be bothered learning German

                Amery wrote "on the subject of India, Winston is not quite sane" and that he did not "see much difference between [Churchill's] outlook and Hitler's"

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Winston_Churchill

                I'm sure a 1940s conservative colleague of him had a better perspective than your reflexive support for a racial supremacist drunken fascist who sought to deny the people of the UK freedom in perpetuity, who was solely concerned with preservation of Empire for the wealthy, and the devil take the rest of the country, hence he was removed by public vote at the first opportunity, even under our utterly undemocratic system.

                After 1945 many and perhaps most black intellectuals and activists in the United States became convinced that Churchill's racism was a major factor in what they saw as his cynical attempt to buttress an exploitative overseas empire that Britain could no longer afford. They charged him with suppressing the democratic aspirations of people of colour.[59]

                South African President Thabo Mbeki said Churchill's attitude toward black people was racist and patronising. That complaint was shared by critics such as Clive Ponting. Historian Roland Quinault states that, "Even some historians otherwise sympathetic to Churchill have concluded that he was blind to the problems of black people."[60]

                Churchill described the Sudanese people as a ‘mongrel (...) mixture of the Arab and Negro types [which] produce[s] a debased and cruel breed, more shocking because they are more intelligent than the primitive savages’.[61]

                Arabs

                Churchill described the Arabs as a "lower manifestation" than the Jews, whom he viewed as a "higher grade race" compared to the "great hordes of Islam".[62] He referred to Palestinians as "barbaric hordes who ate little but camel dung".

            2. Casca Silver badge

              Re: Churchill was a Nazi himself - he couldn't be bothered learning German

              Wow, you poor deluded fool

              1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                Re: Basement Banderite writes..

                Is that what your momma calls you?

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Picking a side

          So, do I find 50 Shades of Grey now under "history"?

          Sorry, it was stronger than myself :)

          (and yes, I agree - it's exactly this black and white vision that even people with colour TVs appear to mentally prefer that has gotten us into a lot of mainly unneccesary trouble and suffering).

          1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

            Re: The Russians/USSR are less bad than the NAZI

            This is what's wrong with lacking a moral compass. Obviously the USSR was better than the Nazis.

            It's simply racism to even suggest otherwise. The racial supremacy that passes for Culture in much of Europe has never managed to cope with being slapped by the Russians seeking to rehabilitate Fascists ever since.

            That you can even frame this as being remotely advocating all any any policy offered by the USSR is deluded.

            1. Casca Silver badge

              Re: The Russians/USSR are less bad than the NAZI

              This is what's wrong with lacking a moral compass. Obviously the USSR was better than the Nazis.

              Tell that to the people who ended up in Gulags or got deported from their home countries you fucking moron

              1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

                Re: Basement Banderite

                In your view, the Nazi's campaign of extermination against European Jewry, the attempts to enslave and exterminate the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe. The Fascist laws, these things are of less magnitude than the campaign of genocidal murder and violent dispossession carried out by the Soviet Union during the various horrors of collectivisation etc.

                I can't accept that.

                The USSR isn't some cuddly mascot, it was a large federation acting essentially as an imperial structure, much like the EU and the US relationship. The long view of it's existence cements the USSR as one of our civilisations great cultural movements.

                Nazism by contrast cannot be considered comparable since European Colonialism has already happened in Europe (e.g. Ireland, Scotland), Fascist European invaders building empire (French invasion of England).

                There were lots of science but that was pre-existing German science, not much to do with Nazi idealogical support.

                So it's absurd to suggest that your naked Racism and rudeness is some sort of actual argument to the obvious conclusion, being a Nazi is bad m'kay.

          2. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

            Re: Shades of Grey

            It's not much shade to it.

            The period before, during and after including the present day shows clearly that Racial supremacism is alive and well.

            It's enough to have some coked up dickhead drive into a crowd to spark racist mobs who are continuously incited by racist media allusion , while the "Sensibles" ignore all evidence that they don't live in a movie.

            WW2: The Red Army defeated the Nazis. while Britain largely attempted to preserve UK/French ability to exploit the peoples of the world. The colonial empires continued up to the present day, opposing freedom for humanity, establishing two apartheid regimes in South Africa and occupied Palestine. All the bullshit movies etc, obscure the basic facts.

            Algeria / Kenya / Palestine - these show that the freedom and democracy bullshit is bullshit meant to keep you compliant.

            He was a Drunken, Incompetent Racist who was openly pro-fascism https://jewishcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Illustrated_Sunday_Herald_Winston_Churchill-Zionism_versus_Bolshevism.jpg

            After seeing the results of Racial supremacy - he was much enthused proposing to "Keep England White".

            January 1955, Winston Churchill, generally lionised as a British hero, made a bold suggestion in one of his cabinet meetings. With a general election likely to happen within the year – one that he would not, in the end, contest – he tried to persuade his colleagues to adopt a campaign slogan that was similar to the rallying cry of the far right in the decades that followed. ‘Keep England White’, he suggested, would be a good message.

            The prime minister, who had been heavily involved in the Boer War, Britain’s bloody colonial adventures, and in creating the 1943 Bengal famine – which is estimated to have killed 3 million people – was adamant that restricting Caribbean migration was ‘the most important subject facing this country’. Objecting to people of colour coming to the UK, in 1954 Churchill told the governor-in-chief of Jamaica, Sir Hugh Foot, that their presence would create ‘a magpie society’, adding ‘that would never do’.

            https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/11/keeping-britain-white

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Picking a side

        The Canadian "Memorial to the Victims of Communism" unveiling was delayed to have some hurried crossing out of names of Ukrainian "victims" who had an SS rank

      3. Casca Silver badge

        Re: Picking a side

        You really are a russian bot. Either that or a moron with access to AI.

    4. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

      Re: Picking a side

      us got dragged in because of dec 7, Russians changed sides because of Barbarossa, and the uk got dragged because they were allies of France. Allies of convenience with russia. keep them busy fighting both east and west. Don't think it needs much of an explanation. not sure we were fighting fascism per se. There were lots of people in the us and gb who thought hitler was doing a great job, and applauded his actions, or just wanted to stay uninvolved. kennedy as ambassador to gb comes to mind. think the wealthy 1% and many politicians have a sneaking admiration for fascists. certainly the current "leader of the free world" does.

      1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

        Re: Picking a side

        Exactly WW2 is properly seen as English Hitler vs German Churchill.

        UK/US was quite happy with the idea of Germany making Russia "like British India", the US gets involved because it seems that Russia is actually going to win, and end up occupying quite a lot of Europe, which the US wants to control, forcing them to stop playing both sides again.

        The Russians reluctantly decided we were less bad than the Nazis. We've spent the intervening years without our populations trying to prove them right, and our government trying to prove them wrong.

        1. Casca Silver badge

          Re: Picking a side

          Move to russia if you think they are so great then. You are more russian than brit anyway

          1. GNU SedGawk Bronze badge

            Re: Basement Banderite writes..

            In England, we'd say "Go back where you came from" and then we'd make the Lenny Henry joke.

            As a Nazi, you really cannot go a single post without some racist bile.

            Do you work in public communications, it's your eloquence that really makes one intimated of your colossal intellect.

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There is another simple explanation

    The gravy train. A huge amount of public money funnelled with no questions asked (hey, it's for our security) to all entities that will work (or pretend to) on defence technologies. It would be foolish not to profit from it.

  5. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Great resect for the Finns

    They may be a small country, but they've got bigger balls than most of the others.

  6. goblinski Bronze badge

    Stanislaw Lem (best ! best !! best !!!) wrote in his sci-fi works about the future of warfare, and has always deduced that efficiency will require miniaturization and simplification.

    There was an epic moment in his book "The Invincible" where as super-duper ultra advanced battle machine is attacked by a swarm of micro-machines each harmless on its own. Spoiler alert - it burns them with its plasma canon probably by the billions, for days, eventually bearings start giving up here and there, then the plasma canon melts from overuse.

    Lem has discussed this type of warfare in his non-sci-fi works as well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invincible

  7. cantankerous swineherd

    <blockquote›both my grandfathers fought the Russians in the Second World War</blockquote›

    that's one way of putting it..

  8. Decay

    Leaving aside the who fought with who against who Simo Häyhä

    Gotta love the Fat Electrician's take

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