back to article American science put on starvation diet

To make America great again, the US National Science Foundation (NSF) aims to get by with less. The agency responsible for promoting scientific progress in the US and nurturing national STEM talent has proposed a budget of $3.9 billion, 61.7 percent less than the $10.183 billion sought in FY 2025. Actual budget appropriations …

  1. Michael Hoffmann Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Failed to learn lesson

    Unless you played Civilization I, where you could pull off Despotic Conquest (city->chariot->settler->new city->chariot->settler until you had 30 or more chariots by 2000BC and simply zerged the planet even in Emperor mode), everybody knows that if you don't keep up Research in any of the games, you would fall behind and get stomped.

    1. SnailFerrous
      Headmaster

      Re: Failed to learn lesson

      They don't hold with none of that book learnin', unless it is the good book.

      1. El Duderino
        Angel

        Re: Failed to learn lesson

        They must have missed this news bulletin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmHSPI7ZkRk

      2. Rafael #872397 Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Failed to learn lesson

        There is only one true good book! A tremendous, beautiful book. Collect them all!

        (Dedicated to those who need further proof that God does not exist.)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Failed to learn lesson

          Is that site real?

          Also, a sitting president endorsing an overpriced book?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Failed to learn lesson

            Trump University, Trump Vodka, Trump Steaks, Trump Bible ... part of a long list of just very highly successful Trump ventures ... that Orange is an outright certified success-genius maaannnnn!

            1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

              Re: Failed to learn lesson

              Here's a more complete list that I keep handy whenever the "he's a great business man" shows up:

              The Trump Network - MLM scam

              Trump University - Fraud

              Trump foundation/charity Fraud

              Trump Tampa - failure & fraud

              Trump Soho - bankrupt

              Trump golf Aberdeen - scam

              Trump golf Puerto Rico - bankrupt

              Trump Chicago - default 40 million

              Trump Panama - lawsuit corruption

              Trump Baja Mexico - Fraud & failure

              Trump Fort Lauderdale - Scam & failure

              Trump Vodka - business failure

              Trump Wine - business failure

              Trump Steaks - business failure

              Trump Shuttle - loan default failure

              Trump Air & Trump Pac - business failure

              Trump Taj Mahal - 4 bankruptcies

              Trump Marina/Trump Castle - bankrupt

              Trump Plaza - bankrupt

              Trump Indiana Riverboat Casino - bankrupt

              Trump IPO ticker DJT - business failure

              Trump Atlanta - business failure

              Trump Jupiter - lawsuit

              Trump Waikiki Hotel - scam lawsuit.

              Given the trend I;m fairly certain there must be more.

              1. Dr. G. Freeman

                Re: Failed to learn lesson

                Trump golf Aberdeen - scam

                I wish it was a scam, sadly a real golf course on a nature reserve, closed off unless you have a membership.

              2. EricB123 Silver badge

                Re: Failed to learn lesson

                But his other ventures were successful, right? I mean, Trump phone is unstoppable!

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Failed to learn lesson

            Yes, it's real and printed in China apparently. I wonder if they snuck any modifications in to the text, as none of the suckers would have actually read it to check?

        2. blu3b3rry
          Coat

          Re: Failed to learn lesson

          I thought God went by the name of The Mighty Orange One these days?

        3. Rich 2 Silver badge

          Re: Failed to learn lesson

          “There is only one true good book! A tremendous, beautiful book. Collect them all!”

          OMFG

          At the start of this rollercoaster shit-show that the Orange Twat calls a presidency, I posted up that I was looking forward to getting the popcorn out and watching the car-crash of a show

          But so far, it has exceeded all expectations many many times over

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Failed to learn lesson

        With lots of pictures!

    2. Erythrite

      Re: Failed to learn lesson

      Maybe the two down voters could explain their down votes?

      1. seven of five Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Failed to learn lesson

        fwiw,

        from the internal logs: downvoter one "theREALdonaldtrump" (password "MAGAMAGA"), downvoter two "1337Elon" (password: "xxxxxxxx").

        hth...

    3. Dinanziame Silver badge
      Devil

      YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

      The other lesson that countries often fail to learn is that of the angry transit adviser in Simcity

      1. seven of five Silver badge

        Re: YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

        I can still hear the powerlines... bzzzp. bzzzp.

        Oh well, off to reticulate my splines...

  2. Baird34

    Thicker than thick

    Well to a large segment of Trump voters the bible has all the science one needs. The strong undercurrent of anti-science thinking in the US has become the overcurrent. Rule by the thick for the thick, it'll turn out well. I'm thinking of learning Mandarin, it may stand me in good stead.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Thicker than thick

      "I'm thinking of learning Mandarin, it may stand me in good stead."

      The trouble with that is that all natural languages implicitly encoded the culture, biases, patterns of thought and world view of its native speakers; For good or ill.

      Perhaps learning en-EN rather than us-US (a newspeak that pathologically masquerades as en-US ) will free your soul from the contraints of the "world" view of the thicker than the thickest. :)

      But seriously, a truly cunning plan worthy of Baldrick; Defund US science so that all those foreign born scientists "undermining" the purity and strength of US values and enterprise will toddle off elsewhere. (And presumably also followed by a flood native born "fellow travellers.")

      The current administration is so dense they would make a neutron star seem light and fluffy in comparison. Of course one step up from a neutron star is a black hole....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Thicker than thick

        ... or even a black orange hole of sun-don't-shine obscurantist spray-on cheezy foam that reeks symptomatically of narcissistic bowel-brain dementia induced by late stage syphilis.

    2. Vikingforties

      Re: Thicker than thick

      "und I'm learning Chinese,

      says Werner Von Braun."

      The late, great Tom Lehrer.

      1. abend0c4 Silver badge

        Re: Thicker than thick

        Tom Lehrer, incidentally a Harvard math(s) graduate who continued to teach until 2001, is still very much alive at the age of 97.

        1. PhilipN Silver badge

          Re: Thicker than thick

          Thanks for the reminder. Ahead of his time in announcing the death of political satire by a quarter of a century.

        2. Gary Stewart Silver badge

          Re: Thicker than thick

          Harvard, math? I'm surprised to hear that he hasn't been deported to the shit-hole of their choice. I am glad to hear he is still alive and kicking. I hope his spirit will inspire others to follow in his footsteps in these bizarre times. I would love to hear his take on the current president of the US.

        3. BebopWeBop
          Pint

          Re: Thicker than thick

          And has made his music and lyrics public domain.

          https://www.openculture.com/2022/12/tom-lehrer-puts-his-songs-into-the-public-domain-makes-them-free-to-download.html

        4. Jedit Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Thicker than thick

          Yeah, but at his age I'm not going to complain that he isn't on time.

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Thicker than thick

        "The late, great Tom Lehrer."

        Hmm, he shows as still being alive.

    3. Turbo Beholder
      IT Angle

      Re: Thicker than thick

      Ah, that «creativity»... You didn’t update these lines for half a century, did you?

    4. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

      Re: Thicker than thick

      I'm thinking just leave the US and get citizenship elsewhere, you could easily find a different English speaking country.

      A few years ago I suggested trump was right and he should extend his wall around the entire US then all we need do is throw ammo over and wait for the gunshots to stop.

      Now I'm even more convinced it's not a bad idea

      1. ChrisElvidge Silver badge

        Re: Thicker than thick

        Record number of Americans seeking UK residency, says Home Office. Nearly 2,000 applications for British citizenship submitted since January, when Donald Trump took office.

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/24/americans-british-citizenship

        1. keithpeter Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Thicker than thick

          Well, over here in the UK, we ended up with David Bohm last time (1950s). One of the influences on George Bell, he of the theorem. And Joseph Losey the film director.

          1. keithpeter Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: Thicker than thick

            Aggghhh John Bell. Too late to edit. Got my coat.

    5. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      Re: Thicker than thick

      As a brick?

      1. TimMaher Silver badge
        Windows

        Re: “Thick as a brick”

        Great album!

        Not sure that Donny would like it though.

        1. Dizzy Dwarf

          Re: “Thick as a brick”

          Fake News!

        2. Gary Stewart Silver badge

          Re: “Thick as a brick”

          Yep, it's my favorite Jethro Tull album. Followed closely by Aqualung. Ian Anderson was a very talented artist and the band he had around him was top notch too. There are at least a couple of very good live Thick as a Brick performances on Youtube but they always play only the first half of the album and I would prefer to hear the whole thing. I love watching their live performances because it shows just how good they really are.

      2. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Thicker than thick

        Where his mind's in the gutter

        And his love, in the sink?

    6. JLV Silver badge

      Re: Thicker than thick

      This reminds me of my online dating days when one profile proudly and prominently stated "the only book I read is the Bible". Somehow, somehow, I swiped left on her.

      Mind you, I kinda hope she was not being too literal, seeing as she was apparently a commercial jet pilot. AFAIK the Bible has little to say about aeronautics...

      1. ThatOne Silver badge
        Angel

        Re: Thicker than thick

        Why, Bible => heaven. Appropriate for a pilot.

        1. Dizzy Dwarf

          Re: Thicker than thick

          You'll never get to heaven in a jumbo-jet ...

          ... 'cause the lord ain't built no runways yet

  3. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge
    Headmaster

    If you think education is expensive

    Try ignorance.

    1. abend0c4 Silver badge

      Re: If you think education is expensive

      The experiment is in progress...

      1. harmjschoonhoven
        Facepalm

        Re: If you think education is expensive

        The experiment is in progress, not only in science.

        https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-cuts-threaten-safety-training-workers-americas-most-dangerous-jobs-2025-05-31/

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: If you think education is expensive

          Only 1800's working conditions will "Make America Competitive Again". You can't compete against low waged economies without cutting every possible overhead, including workers rights, protections and regulation.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: If you think education is expensive

            The secret is slavery

            99% of your population aren't even billionaires - why not put them to work in the mines?

  4. Turbo Beholder
    Facepalm

    Wait, they still have science over there? I thought it all went either to grievance studies or «you made ManBear Pig angry, repent!!1» by now…

    1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      We have the best biggest beautiful science in the whole world. That along with everything else is getting flushed down the crapper by Moronodon I and his select group of moronic minions (total IQ of the whole group, -1). Luckily for the time being it takes a lot of flushes to get them all down which is probably why oh donnie boy (the pipes, the pipes) is so fixated on plumbing. What's really scary are the people that believed him when he said the best way to stop covid was to stop testing. And it fell of the cliff hill and in to the rabbit hole abyss from there. Again I am at a complete loss of words, even curse words are totally inadequate, to describe the current state of "mind" of ~77 million US citizens. Well at least we seem to have invented a working time dilation machine because it already seems like this has been dragging on forever.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        There's a few more million on top of the 77 million. The few more million who stayed at home shrugged and said "whatever".

        1. Gary Stewart Silver badge

          Yeah, but I'm not one of them. As has become painfully obvious it was too important to sit out.

  5. 45RPM Silver badge

    We’ve seen how this story plays out in the UK with our national assets. Right wing government comes in, sells off national assets, enjoys a sugar high in the economy, economy eventually crashes, government blames immigrants, Brexit, country goes down the toilet. There are a few other steps in between of course, but the failure to invest in national assets, including scientific programs, is where is starts.

    And yes, short term, a few billionaires will become even richer. But the money isn’t theirs to take - this is theft from a nation. And all it does is enable other nations to fill the vacuum. China springs to mind. Hopefully the EU too. But what we can be sure of is that it won’t be any nation in thrall to a far right government.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      So our only hope is that totalitarian dictators are better able to plan for the future?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So it took Britain a few decades to get to this point... you have to admire Trump's efficiency in getting it all done at once.

  6. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

    Open invite

    Any US scientists who need a home for their research I'm sure would be welcome in almost any other country.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Open invite

      An effective welcome will mean either an increase of the county's scientific budget or a displacement of the country's existing scientists. In the case of the UK I can guess which it would be.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Open invite

        The UK response was to increase the residency requirements from 5years to 10 years, during which you are paying £x000/year in extra NHS tax and fees.

  7. trevorde Silver badge

    MAGA

    Make America Gormless Always

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Except for quantum computing..?

    I heard on the grapevine that, whilst everything else in the NSF was getting obliterated, funding for QC was being tripled. Can anyone confirm this?

    1. Wang Cores

      Re: Except for quantum computing..?

      You gotta have some fraudulent, pie in the sky project to slurp money in unaccountable ways and to make critics look hysterical.

      They just get two-for-one with quantum computers.

      1. I am the liquor

        Re: two-for-one with quantum computers

        Well, you still only get one, but it sort of behaves like you got two as long as you don't look at it.

  9. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "a constrained fiscal environment"

    And we wonder what recent events might have caused that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's the blight of the reprobate Orange vise, mercilessly squeezing on that government spending which is generally useful to all of We the People, to ensure select billionaires keep more of the meritoriously hard-inherited fortunes they oh so-deserve as loyalist buttkissing creeps and doormats.

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      "And we wonder what recent events might have caused that."

      A desire for a much larger military budget maybe?

    3. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      >And we wonder what recent events might have caused that.

      It was either Hunter Biden's laptop or Obama's tan suit

  10. Grindslow_knoll

    1 makes 4

    When Canada's govt was finally convinced to increase its research funding last year after a 20 year hiatus, one reason mentioned was that every $ you invest in science, you get back 4-6 fold $ in GDP in a decade in the rest of the economy.

    I don't think that, outside of Ponzi schemes, you can find other schemes that boost economy on that scale.

    This is also true in the UK, but there the lack of productivity is explained by universities struggling the make ends meet, lack of regional integration and infrastructure, and devolvement.

    The top k% of productive sectors in the UK are still doing well, it's the middle that's crippled and that offsets the overall number.

    The US is doing great though, releasing the scientists they drained from the rest of the world, I'm sure few tears are shed outside of the US.

    Inside, well, it's a nightmare, and it's set to continue for the next decade or so into his third term.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: set to continue for the next decade

      and beyond when Drumpf Jnr takes over from Daddy and Baron makes it three.

      If that happens, I foresee at least CA leaving the union. They have a big enough economy to survive. The Red States? They may well become even worse basketcases than that are now when Drumpf Snr cuts all funding to them even after several hurricanes decimate them.

      We are in deep shit on this side of the Atlantic with our own mini-Trump (Farage) promising the earth to get elected as PM. If that happens the flood of people heading across the channel will be reversed from what it is today.

      Trump/Orban has a lot to answer for on the world stage.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: set to continue for the next decade

        we had bad news today, poland voted for nazi's

        fuckwits!!

    2. rg287 Silver badge

      Re: 1 makes 4

      I don't think that, outside of Ponzi schemes, you can find other schemes that boost economy on that scale.

      In the UK and US, public transport infrastructure - but primarily because it's been ignored for decades and is now in a dire state, so every time you open a new station in the UK it blows it's passenger projections out the water.

      e.g. "Year 3 ridership projected at 50k pax/yr, but actually hit 120k in year 2. Treasury had delayed it for a decade because they didn't think it'd see 40k/yr or generate a good ROI".

      This weird and remarkable phenomena whereby making it easy for people1 to access employment and education improves economic output, improves tax receipts and lowers expenditure on benefits.

      1. Including 16year old students/apprentices, people with heath conditions that preclude them from driving and low-income workers who can't afford a car thanks to wage stagnation. It's so strange how making it hard for people to join the workforce is bad for the economy. I just can't explain why that might be. /s

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: 1 makes 4

        "every time you open a new station in the UK it blows it's passenger projections out the water."

        The same applies to new road schemes.

        1. rg287 Silver badge

          Re: 1 makes 4

          The same applies to new road schemes.

          Well yes, induced demand occurs on all transit. But on roads it's a bad thing (increased maintenance, then people complain about potholes, and complain when you close the road to patch the potholes, and the scheme was usually conceived to "ease congestion", which it fails at - see America, "just one more lane bro"), whereas induced demand on Public Transport is a good thing - you want transit ridership approaching 100%, because that pays back your infrastructure overheads and minimises costs per-fare. And riders who represent modal share from car to transit mean there are fewer cars on the road - the best way to ease congestion is not to add more roads/lanes, but to improve public transport.

          And of course, roads don't help apprentices, non-drivers, etc. They entrench a car-first society and make it marginally more convenient for people who already drive to get where they're going marginally quicker (until congestion makes it a wash).

          Building roads through Stoke-on-Trent for instance won't improve traffic. No road scheme can save the city when the M6 is closed and all the blocked traffic is clogging the roads. Whereas urban rail or a tram network with dedicated running paths would be unaffected by road chaos.

          Roads are important, and we must ensure those needs are met, but we've now built a very brittle society where the roads get clogged and the areas grinds to a halt, whereas in London a bad accident doesn't impact the Underground (or Overground).

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Education bad

    Stupid people good

    1. Joe W Silver badge

      Re: Education bad

      I don't junk they can spell ed-you-kay-shunn...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Education bad

      "Stupid people good"

      Yeah, they vote for you.

  12. ecofeco Silver badge

    Nothing left to be said

    There is nothing left to be said that every comment here has not said perfectly.

    Except for the joke I made years ago when Mango Mussolini was first elected:

    "Brexit is the biggest mistake any nation has every made."

    USA elects Trump. "Hold my beer."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Oh, there's plenty. It's just all the same...

      There was a sandwich board outside a Cafe in Cannon Street:

      "The USA and UK are having a competition to see who can mess up their country the most. The UK has made a strong start with Brexit, but the USA has a Trump card."

      And recently, I have noted that while in WW1 we had Lions led by Donkeys, today we have Elephants led by a Donkey.

  13. Locomotion69 Bronze badge

    There is actually some logic behind this - from the point of view of Mr. President:

    1. Knowledge is dangerous once in the hand of the enemy (especially if it is a personal or political enemy, or can become one)

    2. The USA needs minions to populate the returning factories (cheap labour).

    Me, sinical?

  14. FuzzyTheBear Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Their problem.

    They voted for Trump and they got their very own pig pond now . He was there supposedly to drain the swamp but everyday he's expanding it with added stenches the likes we never smelled on the planet. If the science in the USA folds on itself and disappears into Trump's black hole i got no sympathy whatsoever. Next elections , maybe they will learn , maybe , just maybe , they will go out and vote the republicans out of office. Their appetite for misery seems endless. They keep repeating the same mistakes every few elections and vote for republicans who make a mess out of things and their lives everytime a little bit more miserable. .

  15. codejunky Silver badge

    Hmm

    It looks like the NSF is only used to constantly increasing budgets. I can understand their dislike for a reduction or even tightening their belts. Just as any attempt to cut the largess of government spending upsets many who are not used to financial realities.

  16. uccsoundman

    Just do what the man says!

    I've seen it in done to professors, great thinkers, etc. The way for the leaders of the NSF to get their funding back is to put out research that comes to conclusions Trump is willing to pay for! Conclude scientifically that there are only two genders, fully funded! Conclude there are more than two, FIRED. You either put out conclusions that agree with the party in charge or you go dig ditches. The truth is whatever the people paying the bill says it is! You have a choice, conform or leave.

    Remember that for decades smoking was considered beneficial and harmless, supported by innumerable scientific studies whose conclusion were dictated by the tobacco industry. On TV it was shown to be an ordinary part of social life by tobacco sponsors who owned the shows and dictated how many cigarettes must be smoked on each show.

    And before you get too shocked think back to not so very long ago, when the party and ideology and the party in power were the opposite from what it is now. Who/what got funded and who/what got cancelled? Science funded by industry forces conclusions to maximize profit. Science funded by government supports whatever conclusions dictated by the party in power.

  17. MikeLivingstone

    US Researchers would be welcome in the UK

    The UK is massive in research; we were poor at creating global firms from our discoveries, but that is changing.

    US researchers would easily fit in here, and the City of London is now ready to invest.

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