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back to article Virgin Media O2 patches hole that let callers snoop on your coordinates

UK telco Virgin Media O2 has fixed an issue with its 4G Calling feature that allowed users' general location to be discerned by those who called them. The confirmation was issued in response to a mobile networking specialist publishing research into the mobile network operator's (MNO) implementation of Voice over LTE (VoLTE), …

  1. Bertieboy

    Should that be 100 metres square?

    1. Blazde Silver badge

      square metres - modifying noun, main noun. Metres but they're square ones. (Also boring poems).

      metres squared - noun, verb. Metres but someone has squared them.

      squared metres - adjectival verb, noun. Metres but someone has squared them and it's a bit more of a surprise.

      metre's square - possessive noun, main noun. Square that belongs to the metre. Compare/contrast: yard's yard.

      meted squares - adjectival verb, noun. Those are your squares and you're not getting any more!

      metres square - modifying noun, main noun. Everything in this square is measured in whole metres..?

      1. John Robson Silver badge
        Headmaster

        And meters are something completely different again

      2. MOH

        Square mitre - somebody sat on the bishop's hat

        1. Blazde Silver badge

          'mare skeeter - Man sized mosquito and it's carrying West Nile virus

    2. Blue Shirt Guy

      Since the article refers to "meters" I presume it depends on either a Fluke or the size of your Avo.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Hmmm. I've never come across a square-shaped Fluke or Avo.

        1. Mast1

          For a start, they both have rounded corners. For the AVO, the design stretches back decades, but you would not try to fit that in your pocket. .

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            AVO meter

            And the AVO has a pair of knobs and a nice springy thing that likes to pop up.

    3. JessicaRabbit

      Maybe but if we're talking about distance from a cell tower, then we're talking about a circle with radius 100 metres.

    4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      Meter/Metre

      The house style at The Register being American English, it would be "Meter"

      https://www.proofreading.co.uk/blog/meter-vs-metre-whats-the-difference/

      Alternatively... there's always...

      https://www.theregister.com/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html

      1. druck Silver badge

        Re: Meter/Metre

        FTFY: The house style at The Register being American English wrong.

    5. I am the liquor

      Daniel Williams does indeed say 100 square metres:

      "...dense urban areas will make use of very many sites (such as small cells, which are often fitted directly to streetlamps) with small coverage areas. Each site in these areas can often cover areas as small as 100m2.

  2. SVD_NL Silver badge

    Big difference

    "...locate users within 100 meters"

    "He said theoretically, in some cases, this could be accurate to within 100 square meters."

    These two thing are *very* different. Within 100m is accurate to a specific street or block of houses, but 100 square meters is a 10mx10m square! that's enough to pinpoint a specific building, and in some cases even a specific room.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Big difference

      Are those 100 gas or electricity meters?

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: Big difference

        Parking.

        -A.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Big difference

          As an aside, I can't remember when I last saw a parking meter. It's all just parking bays with a ticket machine nearby[*]

          * for various values of "near", the nearest usually being the one that's out of order :-)

    2. tony72

      Re: Big difference

      In the guy's blog, he uses "100m2" unambiguously, and doesn't appear to say "within 100 meters" anywhere, so I think that's a case of journalistic inexactitude, unless that line was taken from a different article or something;

      "Each site in these areas can often cover areas as small as 100m2. In a city, this becomes an extremely accurate measure of location."

      So yeah, 10mx10m.

      1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
        Big Brother

        Re: Big difference

        Or 20m×5m (which would be approximately every lamppost on one side of a street)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What Would NSO/Pegasus Tell You?

    I think we should be told!

    .....and Angela Merkel, for one, would like to know! Also Pete Hegseth!!

  4. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Sure

    Surely security services let that be patched up...

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Re: Sure

      Shirley in security services? Is she related to Rachel in accounts?

  5. R Soul Silver badge

    Copenhagen, Denmark

    Why the stupid and pointless geography lesson? It's irrelevant to the story which country Copenhagen is in. We all know where Copenhagen is too. And was that the Denmark in Europe or was it the one in Asia?

    BTW, what sort of meters were involved, water? gas?, electricity? sound? air pressure? Note to the editor: the SI unit of length is the metre. It isn't spelled "meter". FFS fix this.

  6. Captain Hogwash
    Joke

    Re: Why the stupid and pointless geography lesson?

    Americans might be reading.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why the stupid and pointless geography lesson?

      In which case all they will see is "that's not in 'murka, so we don't care"

      1. Paul Herber Silver badge

        Re: Why the stupid and pointless geography lesson?

        We're going to Armorica in a few weeks time. A place to enjoy!

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why the stupid and pointless geography lesson?

      The operative word here is "might". Since USians can't spell, it's a fair bet they can't read either.

  7. david 12 Silver badge

    Emergency caller location

    One of the methods used by emergency services for locating mobile phones was cell identification. Was that not used in the UK? Is it still used in the UK? Will blocking cell location on this network have any effect?

    1. GNU Enjoyer
      Angel

      Re: Emergency caller location

      Mobile location identification for emergency services uses a different system, thus filtering out SIP headers that leak metadata wouldn't impact such.

      You cannot "block cell location" - the way mobile networks works means that mobile companies can and do record the location data of every customer by IMEI (device id) and IMSI (account id) and sell that.

      Mobile devices also contain a GPS chipset, which cannot be turned off (only asked to go into a low-power mode), that determines the precise location - which is provided to whatever party that pays on the mobile side (even rough 100mx100m or 1kmx1km location data good enough for most nefarious purposes, but 4mx4m is nicer).

      In Android, reportedly turning "location data off" still results in the current location still being sent to google occasionally.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Emergency caller location

        "You cannot "block cell location" - the way mobile networks works means that mobile companies can and do record the location data of every customer by IMEI (device id) and IMSI (account id) and sell that."

        How do you know that the mobile operators are selling location data? and how do you know exactly what form of location data they are selling? Are you referring to mobile operators in a particular country/countries (i.e. the USA where data protection laws are weak/practically non-existant) or making a blanket statement referring to mobile operators all over the world?

        For mobile operators to sell (i.e. "share") IMEI/IMSI location data in the UK or EU without a valid lawful basis would likely be a breach of UK GDPR/(EU) GDPR as IMEI/IMSI are likely to be considered "personal data".

        "IMSI (account id)"

        The IMSI is the "id" of the SIM card, it's not an account id, e.g. a business account with a mobile operator likely would have multiple phones/SIMs and therefore multiple IMSIs associated with that account id.

        "Mobile devices also contain a GPS chipset, which cannot be turned off (only asked to go into a low-power mode)"

        Not necessary true, many/most mobile devices contain a GPS chipset (and GPS antenna), however there are the likes of non-Smartphones that come without GPS functionality and for those whilst some may have a GPS chipset that just isn't used (or no GPS antenna) there are likely to be others that have no GPS chipset (and/or GPS antenna) at all.

        You seem to like making absolute/definitive statements where the reality is more finegrained than that.

        1. GNU Enjoyer
          Unhappy

          Re: Emergency caller location

          I am not allowed to reply by the register.

          1. JudeK (Written by Reg staff)

            Re: Re: Emergency caller location

            This is not the case.

            If we suspect that your comment may be libellous, we will reject it. We err on the side of caution.

            (https://www.theregister.com/2012/02/01/register_comments_guidelines/)

  8. Michael Strorm Silver badge

    If they've reversed their decision on this...

    ...does that make it a VoLTE-face?

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