back to article Linus Torvalds goes back to a mechanical keyboard after making too many typos

Linux kernel project boss Linus Torvalds has re-joined the ranks of full-size mechanical keyboard aficionados. The penguin emperor on Sunday revealed he’s spent the last six months using what he described as “a quieter low-profile keyboard”. I will now conveniently blame autocorrect since I can't blame the keyboard “I gave …

  1. frankyunderwood123

    Slow news day?

    What’s next?

    “Linus gets a new chair”?

    “Torvalds shuns his standup desk”?

    “Penguin emperor prefers green tea on Tuesday “?

    1. Ball boy Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Slow news day?

      Given Cherry keyboards feature, I'd say the article is the very definition of clickbait ;)

      I'll see myself out

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Slow news day?

        The editors know their audience.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Slow news day?

        Not exactly a red letter day, for sure.

      3. TheWeetabix Bronze badge

        Re: Slow news day?

        With that Type of Joke, the real Key is to Depress expectations until the CLICK happens and they Spring back with joy.

        Not my best but no coffee yet.

    2. xc8

      Re: Slow news day?

      ...page 3 girl ?

      1. Korev Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Slow news day?

        Didn't Sun get bought by Oracle?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Slow news day?

          Yep, its now much more seedy.

      2. zuckzuckgo

        Re: Slow news day?

        > ...page 3 girl ?

        Chick bait?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Slow news day?

          Chumming for rubes.

  2. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Wish I knew what kind....

    It would be nice to know what kind/model.

    I've been shopping for a decent mechanical keyboard since my Model M gave up the ghost, and the mechanical keyboard I bought is no longer made. Cherry switches do seem to be more mechanically robust than the Model M buckling spring keys.

    The mechanical keyboard market is all boutique/trendy/couture/phat/art-fag with tiny little production runs, so when you find a keyboard you like, you can't buy another one, plus the standard (AKA "100%") layout is considered "eww, that's like, too big, mm-kay?" so a lot of places just don't make them, and yes, I need function keys, cursor keys, and a numeric pad. (edit: actually TBH I just need the layout I've gotten used to since 1983)

    1. Notas Badoff

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      I do wish someone would put together a decision tree map for keyboard buyers. Because there really are too many variations to consider and right now everyone is selling for Gaming!1!! Everytime I dip into the ads and articles about keyboards I'm appalled at seeing yet another new frabjets feature, like magnetic actuation. I just want to type, not slash and zoom.

    2. Adam Trickett
      Linux

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      I agree that there are a lot of blinged up keyboards and an awful lot of smaller formats. But there are several manufacturers who churn out dull but reliable keyboards year in and year out. I can't comment about several of them as I've not got one of their keyboards but I've considered them. I can say that the Filco Majestouch is pretty good. I've a TKL MK2 and a full-size MK3.

      If you don't need a numpad the TKL layout is great as your mouse is quite a bit closer (assuming you're right handed). I got the TKL when my desk was cramped and the full-size later when I had more space.

      1. AMBxx Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        For those that do need a numeric keypad (myself included), just use a RollerMouse Pro. Sits in front of the keyboard. Just takes a while to get used to using a rolling tube instead of a regular mouse.

        Mines the Filco with Brown Cherry switches. Blue is too hardcore for me and red is for softies :)

        1. that one in the corner Silver badge

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          OTOH[1] use the mouse in your non-dominant hand.

          It was just an obvious thing to do, from the first day I had a mouse as a practical tool, as it means I can hold a pen and take notes, tick off the worksheet etc whilst mousing around. Or, as I am one of the boring old right-handed normies[2], use the numerical keypad back in the days of entering data points by hand.

          [1] gettit?

          [2] although, considering how much gyp I've had from people (IT support, looking at you) who couldn't cope with picking the mouse up, moving it across - and the putting it back! - I understand the anguish of our left-handed siblings (literally, my sister is one).

          1. Irongut Silver badge

            Re: Wish I knew what kind....

            I learned to use a mouse with my Spectrum (yes, really) and had no preconcieved notion of which hand to use so I used my left despite being right handed. Later when mice were setup on the right of PC keyboards I learned to use my right. So I can use either.

            It is very funny seeing the looks on people's faces if you use a mouse in your left hand in front of them and then when asked tell them you're right handed. It's like black magic or something.

          2. DoctorPaul Bronze badge

            Re: Wish I knew what kind....

            I'm lucky in that respect, as I'm not completely left-handed nor ambidextrous. I write with my left hand (plus use a spoon or toothbrush) but use my right hand for things like a mouse, hammer, saw etc. Being right armed and left eye dominant, archery proved tricky when I tried it at school.

            Sometimes I wonder just how my brain is wired!

      2. collinsl Silver badge

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        +1 for the Filco - I've had two (one wired and one wireless) for several years now and they really do last and perform well. Personally I have MX Brown switches but I'm sure their Blues are just as good.

        The only downside with the wired one (Majestouch 2) was that the inbuilt USB cable gave up the ghost after 2 or 3 years, which is a known problem with this model. However, they can be replaced relatively easily via a connector on the underside of the circuit board, and both official replacements and third party cables with higher durability are available widely and relatively cheaply.

    3. gv

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      Bought a Unicomp keyboard years ago for around £100 and it's still going. Looks like the price has gone up: https://www.keyboardco.com/category.asp?sr=unicomp

    4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      @Gene Cash - With reference to the above post by @gv, see below for background on the Unicomp keyboards...

      https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

      "The buckling spring “Model M” keyboard, invented by IBM in the 80’s; popularized by Lexmark in the early 90’s; and manufactured by Unicomp for the past 25 years is regaining its status as one of the best keyboards in the market."

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        The current Unicomp Model M is slightly smaller (a smaller bezel), and slightly lighter than the original IBM models, but IMHO they're still better than much of the rest of what's on the market. They still use the same buckling spring mechanism.

        This change is mostly good, because they've re-tooled the plastic moulds, which mean that the new ones are cleaner and better formed than the ones they've made until recently, which used the same tooling from last century. The only problem is the cost, which in the UK approaches the cost of a low-end PC!

        They still do sell keyboards made with the original moulds, but I don't know how much longer they will do this.

        My IBM Model M is not in daily use. I've had to go for TKL keyboards to fit two on my cramped desk (can't use a KVM, because one PC is heavily locked down), and I'm afraid to say I'm using modest priced TLK keyboards from Amazon with knock-off 'Blue' switches. They're OK, but I'm finding some of the keyswitches have become intermittent after about 3 years of moderate use. But it's not (that) difficult or expensive to replace the keys if you can solder, and they're so cheap (about 1/10th of the price of a new Model M) that if I have to replace the whole keyboard, it won't break the bank.

      3. JulieM Silver badge

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        That example appears to be missing the less-than and more-than key (or \ and | in the UK) which is normally found between the left Shift and Z/W.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          If you choose one of the two New Model Ms and click through to the shopping cart you can choose ISO layouts, but there's not many countries available.

    5. K555

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      I had much the same set of requirements. Ended up on a Corsair K70 (not pro, not core etc) with Cherry brown keys. It's a standard keyboard size and shape as far as I'm concerned. It does do the RGB light up thing, so I have to put up with it looking like a primary school disco till I log in and they lights just get set to one static plain colour (you can turn them off too).

      Far more money than I wanted to spend but I didn't realise just how much of my typing inaccuracy stemmed from a crappy keyboard till I swapped to it. I did find that I got on fine with a much cheaper Logitech membrane keyboard before this one, but I had two of them fail within weeks in exactly the same way (getting double taps on keys) and then discovered that it was a common fault.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        Ended up on a Corsair K70 (not pro, not core etc) with Cherry brown keys.

        Ended up with the same keyboard and another cherry knockoff with brown switches.

        I am glad I kept the instruction leaflet to turn the disco effects off as they make the keyboard unusable for me.

        Why Linus wanted to torment himself with an inferior keyboard for six months wasn't clear. Perhaps as penance for past trespasses? :)

        If you learnt as a student to touch type on an ancient Olivetti mechanical typewriter, as I did, you would naturally prefer a keyboard with a definitely mechanical feel requiring a bit of welly and a roomy layout.

        Developers seem to have quite particular and quite peculiar preferences in keyboards and layouts some af which look completely unusable to me but then so is most of their code. ;)

        "Foreign" keyboards including UK ones completely flumox me but fortunately rarely seen in AU. Trying to connect laptop with a Thai keyboard and Thai Windows to the network for a visitor was a never to be repeated experience (at least if I could help it.)

        1. Old Used Programmer

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          My late wife was VERY picky about keyboards, but she wasn't a programmer at all. She spent her working life...typing. Loved Selectrics. For computer keyboards, she decided that Unicomp were as close to a Selectric "feel" as she could find. (Which is not particularly surprising, as IBM was trying to match the Selectric feel with the Model M and came fairly close.)

    6. tamegeek42

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      Like you, I am using a mechanical keyboard for ergonomics, not aesthetics. I would recommend Keychron Q6 Max. It's in-stock, 100%, full aluminum body, dual gasket design. Bring your own switches and keycaps. I am a 75% enjoyer; no data entry, and the mouse is closer to me. I use the Q1 as one of my daily drivers, the other being a much more expensive Mode Designs Sonnet (with different, lighter switches for the especially long days). I have no complaints.

    7. Aleph0

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      The keychron.com site has nearly any variation of keyboard features, and IMO their keyboards are pretty affordable. Seems something like the K10 Max has the features you're requesting...

      Personally I'd go with hot-swappable switches because those allow for neat personalization tricks like making just some keys clicky, so one hears when they're inadvertently pressed (caps lock anyone?)

      1. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        > (caps lock anyone?)

        A totally useless key - remapped it to the Windows key (which isn't on the Northgate Omnikey Ultra I prefer[1]) - not that it gets any more use like that.

        [1] caps lock is on the bottom row, the control key is in its proper place, above shift; bliss.

        1. Herby

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          >>>the control key is in its proper place, above shift; bliss.

          Yes, the control key should be to the left of the "A" key as it was on the ASR33 teletype as God designed/intended it.

          Yes "CAPS LOCK" is a very useless key unless you are in a permanent SHOUTY mood.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Wish I knew what kind....

            There is absolutely no need for a capslock key on a modern keyboard. The manufacturers should reflect this and replace caps lock with the left control key universally.

            Many, many people have been re-mapping their keyboards to reflect this since time immemorial.

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        Only thing I've found is if you like Keycron keyboards for their stock keycaps then be aware that their stock shine-through keycaps easily scratch and you'll have difficulty buying replacements later as they don't seem to be offered.

        So I went completely overboard and bought GMK CYL ZX keycaps...

      3. Robert Halloran

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        I've gone with the Keychron Q10; solid aluminum body (2.1 kg) , good feel to the keys, easily remapped with the usual QMK firmware.

      4. PRR Silver badge
        Angel

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        > (caps lock anyone?)

        I pop those off as soon as I decide to keep a KB. I have a little collection in a candy dish. Sure it looks funny.

    8. mIRCat

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      They're pricey, but may scratch an itch...

      https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/

      "Bringing back the classic buckling spring and beam spring keyboards, built to last for decades but out of production since the 1980s, for a short production run ending soon!

      Now you can save over 50% from what they cost originally in 1984, adjusted for inflation."

    9. BenDwire Silver badge
      Go

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      @Gene Cash

      I did the same thing a few years back, and decided to spend a decent amount on a decent keyboard that should see me out. The keyboard I chose was a Cherry MX3650 with brown switches from "The Keyboard Company" (UK) but other models have different layouts and features.

      My tryping is still crap though ...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        I've got the version of that with MX red switches- I'm typing on it just now.

        Personally, I was disappointed with it. Compared to my much larger, old G8-3000 (MX black version), the "MX board" is smaller, but achieved that by squeezing the key groups much closer together. Enough so that in dark or low light conditions where I need access a key outside the main group (i.e. can't rely on my fingers being on the home row) I can't as easily align or correct my alignment by touch to the correct part of the keyboard.

        Because I don't consciously think about how I type, I can't swear 100% that I wasn't using my eyesight and aided by the fact that the old (beige) one might have been more easily visible under low light. But I'm pretty sure that it's touch and the grouping- or lack of it- that's the problem with the new one, particularly as it's not much better under brighter conditions.

        I didn't need the keyboard to be that small anyway, I only bought it because Cherry don't do an MX red version of the G80-3000 with the standard UK/Euro layout. (They still don't AFAICT- despite the name, the "G80-3000N" is rainbow-lit and- again- squeezes the groups together).

        Also not sure that I like the low profile keys as much.

        Ironically, considering I didn't want a backlit keyboard, it still has a pointlessly-lit logo that's surprisingly- and annoyingly- bright. I had that covered up until (after the warranty had expired) I opened the case to see if it could be covered up or disabled on the inside- and was pleased to see that it was on a separate board that could easily be unplugged.

        Anyway, the MX red keyswitches are fine, but in hindsight I wouldn't buy that model again.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          I replaced a G83-6105 with a G80-3000N, as it felt like the the nearest available replacement. It was a bit of a punt, because I didn't like the fact it was black (I prefer white keys), I thought the backlighting was a gimmick, and I wasn't sure about the insert/home block and number pad having less space around them.

          It turns out that I actually find the key illumination quite useful (mine's set to white), and I don't notice the slightly decreased gap around the key blocks.

          Obviously, that's just my experiences and preferences, which others may or may not share. :)

    10. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      I've gotten some good keyboards from thrift shops for < €10 each. One is a Das Keyboard (Hotblack Desiato model) with mechanical, non-clicky switches. The other is a no-info-available, clicky mechanical switches with annoying-RGB-LED backlighting which I finally figured out how to "freeze" into a non-moving pattern.

      1. Antony Shepherd

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        The Das Keyboard has keys with little black lights that light up black when you press them?

        1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          Please do not push this button again.

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Wish I knew what kind....

          But is it as black as the blackest black?

    11. Missing Semicolon Silver badge

      Re: my Model M gave up the ghost

      How did you do that? The most worn-out one I have seen is my late father-in-law's one (far from new when I supplied it) on which the space bar was actually wearing through. Still typed ok though.

    12. PerlyKing
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: my Model M gave up the ghost

      You wore out a Model M?! Remind me not to cross you ;-)

      Mind you, one of the keys on mine has started to work only intermittently :-( Are the switches fixable? So far I've found a lot of information on cleaning the keycaps but not much about any deeper work.

      1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

        Re: my Model M gave up the ghost

        Believe it or not, the Model M does not use mechanical key switches. It is, under the covers, a membrane keyboard, but what makes it different is that there is a mechanism above the membrane to actually press the top and bottom together.

        This is the buckling spring everyone talks about. As you compress the spring, it suddenly bends at a predictable point, and it is the bottom end of the spring changing position that moves a plastic rocker that actually applies pressure to the membrane. The click is the spring hitting the side of the tube it sits in and which also guides the key.

        If there is a key not registering, there's probably some debris got into the membrane, or maybe some liquid damage. The IBM Model M's do not have a sealed membrane, and it's possible for debris to get between top and bottom through either the sides, or down the holes cut for the rivets. Unicomp put a sealing bead around the edges and holes to try to prevent this.

        It's time-consuming to repair, because the membrane is enclosed in a plastic housing inside the keyboard case that is held together with plastic rivets that you have to cut and replace with bolts ("bolt-modding" the keyboard). If you decide to replace all of the rivets with bolts, it can take a long time, as there are at least 50. But once you do replace the rivets, the feel improves, as over time the rivets break anyway, which changes the feel of the keyboard.

        Unicomp do sell replacement membranes, but they are more expensive than many whole keyboards, and I don't know whether they fit all Model M's as the way that they are attached to the electronics changed several times throughout the lifetime of the design. Plus, as noted above, they're difficult to fit.

        1. PerlyKing
          Pint

          Re: fixing Model M switches

          Thank you for taking the time to make this very helpful reply!

    13. ThomH Silver badge

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      I had an M2 fail on me due to capacitor issues but rolled onto a brand new Model F (i.e. buckling springs but capacitative underneath rather than the Model M's underlying membrane) from www.modelfkeyboards.com and have had no issues so far. Though I did this only thanks to a generous employer. US$400 is, to put it mildly, more than I'd invest for myself in a keyboard.

    14. david 12 Silver badge

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      I wish more people were making the PC/XT keyboard layout. I don't do enough numeric entry that I need a separate numeric keypad, and I've used the typewriter numeric keys since the days of manual typewriters, so the PC/XT layout works for me.

      1. richardcox13

        Re: Wish I knew what kind....

        Look for "ten key less" designs.

        Have main, cursor, and page-up/page-down/... as PC-AT; just drop the numeric part.

    15. JoeCool Silver badge

      Re: Wish I knew what kind....

      Discalimer: I AM NOT a keyboard geek. but ... there are several answers here

      1) If I had to get a new KB RIGHT NOW, I would start with Keychron (despite the incredibly confusing lineup). Several models actually allow you to swap out the switches!

      2) The beauty of the Cherry MX is that they standardize the feel, regardless of KB maker.

      Once you find the variety you prefer, any KB using that switch will feel the same.

      My daily work KB is a CM Storm using cherry MX Blue. Green are supposedly the closest to the Model M

      3) What did you do to your model M ?

      Those are literally indistrucable. I've cleaned coffee out of my home Model M, by bathing it in distilled H2O, then letting it dry for several days.

      If you want that back in you life, you can get them new from Unicomp (pckeyboard.com)

      4) If you want real 1980s throwback feel and nostalgia there's modelFkeyboards.com

  3. Joe W Silver badge

    The keyboard is fluff and a bit of fun. This is ElReg, get used to it (or maybe it's not the publication for you, which is ok - there's so many things I don't read because I don't like the style).

    The technical bit is about the upcoming kernel release which is coming along nicely. Valid criticism would be: what is new in that kernel version? Is there something that will be nicer to have?

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Linux

      "Linus eats Penguin!"

      "The keyboard is fluff and a bit of fun. This is ElReg, get used to it"

      ElReg is a "Red Top"...

      Wait till someone spots Linus tucking into a Penguin (chocolate biscuit) to see a headline along the lines of "Linus eats Penguin!"

      https://mcvities.com/en-gb/penguin-original

      ref:

      "Freddie Starr ate my hamster"

      https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/freddie-starr-ate-my-hamster-true-story-max-clifford-the-sun-explained-289955

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
        Coat

        Re: "Linus eats Penguin!"

        What happens if Linus feeds a chocolate penguin to an actual penguin, and then cooks and eats that actual penguin? Would the headline be Canabalism Cubed?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Linus eats Penguin!"

          What happens if Linus feeds a chocolate penguin to an actual penguin, and then cooks and eats that actual penguin?

          Based on the reports of early antarctic explorers penguins rated a well below their sled dogs (huskies) as menu items. "<expletive> Seabird flavour" barely captures its inedibility.

          If nothing else we could be fairly certain that we wouldn't see that headline twice. "Linus eats crow" not very likely either I suspect.

          I was thinking the penguin got the best of the deal unless chocolate stuffs penguins' kidneys as it does cats' and dogs'.

        2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: "Linus eats Penguin!"

          and then cooks and eats that actual penguin?

          No idea if Mark Zuckerberg had Penguin on his plate during his year long challenge to "to eat only meat from animals he slaughters himself" during 2011

          https://www.theregister.com/2011/05/26/zuckerbergs_killer_challenge/

          I think Linus is likely to restrict himself to the occasional Chocolate Biscuit type of Penguin

  4. LenG

    If you want a mechanical keyboard for typing, I would recommend "Das Keyboard" products. Solid, heavy and very few extra buttons except sleep and a volume control knob and one or two others I've never used.

    I had one ages ago and then wandered into the wasteland of gaming keyboards. I returned to the true path a while ago. The other real advantage is that it requires no software support so you can use it with almost any OS/software.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge
      Headmaster

      A keyboard that requires software support has, perhaps, too many features for me. But then, I'm a bang-on-the-keys-to-make-words type...

    2. legless82

      When I last bought a keyboard around 5 years ago I thought my requirements were pretty straightforward.

      - Fullsize

      - White backlight

      - Cherry Brown switches

      Amazingly, the Das Keyboard Prime 13 was pretty much the only one I could find at the time that ticked these boxes. 5 years later I'm still very happy with it.

      1. doublelayer Silver badge

        I do wonder about the many people who post here who have trouble finding a keyboard, because I've got a keyboard much like yours. It's from some no-name manufacturer and I might not be able to find that specific model again, but it's basically what you asked for:

        Very standard layout, has a numpad which I could have done without, brown switches, backlight is configurable to all white (I turned it off). I wanted a mechanical keyboard, but I didn't see any significant advantages from the expensive manufacturers, so I went for the cheapest normal-shape keyboard with the kind of switches I like since I don't want my keys making any more noise than they're already going to make with the extra travel. That keyboard has been working fine for the last six years and I expect it will continue to work fine for many more. It cost me about £40, so I'm wondering whether there's some other feature that people are looking for but they consider so obvious that they aren't mentioning.

        1. Michael

          I used to not care what keyboard I used. A colleague was fed up watching me fix mistakes. He gave me a proper mechanical keyboard for a day. I ordered my own by the end of the day.

          I moved to a new company. I took my keyboard and mouse into the office and refused to use the crappy keyboard they gave me. We were in a small office and everyone had to share desks. I wasn't in the office every day. My keyboard was never at my desk as someone would borrow it. Eventually we bought everyone a proper mechanical keyboard.

          I spend around 8-10 hours a day at my desk. I predominantly use my keyboard. Spending £120 quid for a keyboard which has lasted me ten years so far is worth it. I know have two filco majest touch cherry brown keyboards. One in work one at home. I rarely make mistakes typing. Change my keyboard and I make mistakes.

          The tactile feedback, both movement and sound makes it easy to know when I'm making a mistake.

          It's also strong enough to batter an annoying sales/support person over the head with and show no sign of damage afterwards. This is a major plus for any keyboard.

          The fact that so many people who work with computers all day every day are willing to put up with cheap barely functioning computers, keyboards and mice makes me despair.

  5. 45RPM Silver badge

    On my desktop computer I use (via an ADB-USB adaptor) the Apple Extended Keyboard, from the late 80s, that I bought whilst at university. It has Alps switches and, to my mind, has the best feel and sound of any keyboard that I’ve ever used. Oddly, I also quite like the feel of the keyboard on my M2 MacBook Air - although it’s very different in all respects.

    My PC is currently equipped with a Microsoft keyboard, which isn’t great - but it’s not unusable - I think I type as quickly, I just don’t like the feel very much. But that’s okay, because I don’t use the PC very much either. And the prize for worst ever keyboard, surpassing even my dead flesh Spectrum for typing errors, goes to my Raspberry Pi 400. Which is a pity, because I really, really like the computer itself - come on guys, chuck a couple more quid at the keyboard!

    1. AMBxx Silver badge

      Surely, you just stick the Pi to the back of the monitor and plug a proper keyboard into the Pi?

      1. 45RPM Silver badge

        I mean, yes, with a normal Pi I do - but I quite like the self-contained nature of the 400. It’s like the computers that I first used in the early 1980s, albeit that only my ZX81 had a worse keyboard.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          RPi have changed the keyboard supplier for the Pi500 and so it is improved. I think Pi’s own keyboards are using the new ones too.

          I like them anyway, I prefer the short travel low profile keys and the lack of clickety clack you get with mechanical ones. I worked in an office where the loud mechanical keyboards were banned because of the racket.

          1. James Hughes 1

            The 400 also uses the improved keyboard.

          2. Old Used Programmer

            Yeah... The Pi500 has a better keyboard, but not much better. For the market and price, it's the sort of keyboard one would expect. It's okay for occasional use, but I wouldn't want to use it full time.

            What I really wish would happen is for a third party to make a good mechanical keyboard for the Pi400/Pi500. Have to be a third party because I really doubt there is enough demand and enough price flexibility for the RPL to do it themselves, but they might easily work with a third party so an aftermarket replacement would fit and work properly.

        2. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Looking forward to replacement keyboard housings for the Pi like back in the day.

    2. Ace2 Silver badge
      Pint

      You are still using an Apple Desktop Bus device???

      1. the spectacularly refined chap Silver badge

        Yes, he said that at the very top of the post.

        Reminds me I still need to patch up my SE/30. Needed a new CRT which I now have along with replacement parts probably needed by now (caps and PRAM battery) along with some upgrades - MacAlly extended keyboard, memory, 4GB disk... it already has ethernet. If I ever track down a three button ADB mouse for reasonable money it'd be a nice A/UX or NetBSD terminal.

        Something about a 9" black and white screen makes them very comfortable viewing late at night.

  6. blu3b3rry

    One of the better keyboards I've ever used was rather surprisingly a basic Lenovo branded membrane keyboard that now lives on my bench at work. It felt nice and solid with chunky raised keys, and types very well. We usually use Logitech stuff which tends to also be decent, but the wireless ones can go flaky and lag badly on my system for some reason.

    At home is a Mad Catz Strike 4 with Cherry Red switches - was a bargain on Amazon for about £30. Not really my style but it does the job nicely and is a good typer for its price.

    Worst? Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600. The slightly older ones were made of unpleasant oily feeling shiny plastic. The newer ones have a rougher texture on the keys yet still manage to feel unpleasant.

    Regardless they are like typing on a damp kitchen sponge and make even the crappiest keyboards I came across in the 1990s seem good. My workplace bought tons of them as they were cheap.

    Suffice it to say there's now a fairly sizeable stack of the damn things lurking on a storage shelf downstairs because most people can't stand them!

    1. PRR Silver badge

      > Worst?

      Logitech Bluetooth Multi-Device Keyboard K480, the thing with a slot to hold your pad/phone. I paid $60, now it is $29. It never wanted to pair with my phone. I thought I was doing it wrong. The Logitech site was no help. Cheap phone so I got another one. Still reluctant to pair. When it did pair it would type about a dozen characters and quit. THEN I blew $11 on Amazon for a no-name kluge, and it works spectacularly. I got a kickstand for the phone.

      Someone said "DELL". I worked in a school that was Dell-dominated. They ship all kinds of keyboards depending on price and package. The cheap ones I never bother to use, they are not worth $10. The very best are 9/10th of a classic 1980s IBM, at least/lease for the first 3 years. But they keep changing the part number so you can never get the same thing again.

    2. AJ MacLeod

      Was that one of those Lenovo keyboards that has a kind of pen shelf at the top and blue-grey function / enter keys by any chance? I was so impressed with one on a PC I was setting up for someone else that I went out and bought one myself and used it for quite a few years. That style of keyboard was eventually replaced by the very worst PC keyboard I've ever had the misfortune of using (and that's saying something.) A significant percentage of the replacement model had faulty keys right out of the box, usually around the left shift area.

  7. Eclectic Man Silver badge
    Meh

    Touch typing in 10 hours*

    I have been following the above mentioned course using my Apple Mac keyboard. Not very proficient yet, maybe I'll try a Cherry. The actual problem is that the characters for writing programs are not in the course, and it looks as if they almost all have to be typed with the right little finger. ( ) - = + { } ' " \ / ; ? but % is on the left forefinger.

    *Other books are available, but that was the only one in stock.

    1. Bill Gray Silver badge

      Re: Touch typing in 10 hours*

      If you're learning to touch-type from scratch anyway, you might consider the "programmer's Dvorak" layout. This extends the idea of the Dvorak layout (put commonly-used letters where they're easier to reach) to include puting commonly-used characters in source code where they're easier to reach. I've seen it as an option when installing most OSes.

      I learned to type circa 1980, it was on QWERTY via the Biblical method (seek and ye shall find). When I developed carpal tunnel in 1995, I switched to standard Dvorak, touch typing, and a split keyboard. (I've not had carpal problems since, but have no way to tell which of these changes helped.) Were I doing it today, I'd probably go with programmer's Dvorak.

    2. Michael Strorm Silver badge

      Re: Touch typing in 10 hours*

      I learned touch typing with Mavis Beacon and would definitely have recommended that. However, that was over 25 years ago, so I can't vouch for any current or remotely recent versions.

      1. PRR Silver badge

        Re: Touch typing in 10 hours*

        > I learned touch typing with Mavis Beacon

        Seeking Mavis Beacon review – tracking a Black female tech icon, who didn’t exist

        Seeking Mavis Beacon: the search for an elusive Black tech hero

        https://www.theguardian.com/film/2025/may/06/seeking-mavis-beacon-review-documentary

        In 2024, a documentary titled Seeking Mavis Beacon premiered at the Sundance Film Festival, which investigates the origin of Mavis Beacon. The creators of the film discovered that the image of a corporate-attired Black woman on the software packaging was not of someone named Mavis Beacon, but rather a Haitian model named Renee L'Esperance. She was paid $500 for posing for the marketing photo, wasn't involved in the development or the sales of the software, and did not share in any of the presumably significant profits(*) generated by the product. L'Esperance herself neither appears in nor is directly quoted in the documentary.

        (*) 6 million copies by 1999

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Alert

      Re: Touch typing in 10 hours*

      Watch out, touch typing could aggravate RSI.

  8. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

    Well

    Still on my first IBM SK-8809, two were bought (off the bay) circa 2005.

    Nice medium clicky/clacky feel/noise.

    Compact without being cramped, number pad, some direct access buttons in tasteful colours, volume control rocker, play/pause/fwd/back buttans. What's not to like

    No, i'm not letting the other one go...

  9. Slions

    Meanwhile, I'm happy with very own silent keyboard:

    https://slions.net/resources/interface.14/

  10. vtcodger Silver badge

    Nostalgia?

    Perhaps I'm fantasizing, but my memory is that In the 1950s and 1960s there was a keyboard everyone loved. The IBM Selectric typewriter. It seemed to me to be damned near perfect. I've never used a computer keyboard that comes close to it for touch and feel.

    1. that one in the corner Silver badge

      Re: Nostalgia?

      Sorry, you are fantasising - a little bit.

      The Selectric was released in 1961, so try 1960s through the 1970s and on a bit after that.

      But, yes, a well-loved keyboard, although I recall a couple of the typing pool took a while to adjust from their old "hit the steps like a hammer" manuals (in the those days, when a secretary tapped you disapprovingly with a fingertip, you knew the bruise was going to last).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nostalgia?

        "Fantasising - a little bit ... when a secretary tapped you disapprovingly with a fingertip, you knew the bruise was going to last."

        Sounds like straight out of a "Carry On" movie romp. S&M in the typing pool?

        "The bruise was going to last." Promises. :)

    2. Old Used Programmer

      Re: Nostalgia?

      The IBM 1620 Mod II used a Selectric for a console typewriter (as did the S/360 systems until they went with CRTs), so--yes--there has been a computer keyboard that good. When IBM brought out the PC, they tried to match the "touch" of the Selectric and came fairly close. Hence all the people here talking about IBM Model M and Unicomp keyboards.

  11. Michael Hoffmann Silver badge

    Been using Das Keyboard with brown switches for years and years now. That perfect mix of satisfying tactile feedback and your coworkers not wanting to shove the keyboard up your backside, broadside first.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I once worked with a guy we nicknamed "thumper" because he hammered the keys so hard the desk shook. Desks were those large L-shaped adjustable types in semi-open cubicles. The desks were all pushed up against common dividers, so the "thumping" was transmitted through the divider to other desks, including mine. It was like Jurassic Park in my coffee mug when he was "typing".

    And, yes, he regularly destroyed keyboards.

  13. Breen Whitman

    Ha ha, if Torvalds was an employee he'd be fired. Toxic energy and dubious performance. He may have cognitive diminishment if he's making more errors.

  14. MalIlluminated

    Needs a Firm Hand

    A membrane keyboard is perfectly capable of being sufficiently loud if you’re passionate enough.

    1. Dizzy Dwarf

      Re: Needs a Firm Hand

      The major difference between a Sinclair Spectrum and a BBC Micro was the quality of the keyboard.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Needs a Firm Hand

        Oh?

        Did the Spectrum also have an in-line assembler then?

  15. martinusher Silver badge

    Typing is tactile

    If you do a lot of typing then a decent keyboard is a must since touch typing relies on muscle memory. This is why a typical laptop is more suited to 'hunt and peck' typing -- the keys are roughly in a standard layout but you can't rely on keys being where your fingers think they are.

    (FWIW I also use a musical instrument keyboard. A piano has a standard layout in terms of span (width an octave), dip (downwards travel) and weight. Significantly altering these can mess people up when playing rapid passages which is why switching between a piano and harpsichord is tricky. (Harpsichords have shorter spans, a smaller dip and a different 'feel'). You won't notice this if you're just playing chords with relatively few runs but flipping between instruments when playing something like a Scarlatti sonata -- lots of runs, jumps and other fiddly bits -- you'll really notice the difference.)

  16. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Happy

    Ultra strong

    I have the Tecknet wired gaming keyboard. Nice clicky mechanical keys and a heavy metal frame. Remarkably cheap too, but very solid. I have the lights fixed at medium brightness.

    Actually, I have two of them - one for each of my machines. When a friend saw and tried them he was so impressed he immediately ordered one!

  17. carolinahomes

    Still on PS/2 here

    My boss still uses 20 year old hardware which pleases me as I can still use my Model M-style ps/2 connected keyboard. It's the sort that has the backslash key to the right of the right-shift, just under the Enter. The most-used, most-perfect feature is the 10-key. Now does anyone here know how to convert an android phone dial to a 10-key layout? I'd be eternally grateful as my fingers have never been able to make the switch to a phone layout sight-unseen.

  18. steelpillow Silver badge
    Joke

    Watch it, Linus

    If you blame your AI autocorrect too often, it'll start blaming you.

  19. The commentard formerly known as Mister_C

    My daily drive (don't judge me)

    Is branded Compaq. Semi-inherited hand-me-down that I've gone back to after trying to keep up-to-date with limited lifespan USB landfill candidates. Purple PS/2 connector, so early 2000s. Runs through a PS/2 / USB KVM switch to my main PC and the work laptop.

    Got a couple of black PS/2 connector mechanicals in a box somewhere ('90s computer fair acquisitions) so I reckon I'm nearly future proof, but not in the way that modern manufacturers mean...

    Haven't improved my typing accuracy though

  20. jeffdyer

    Fine for WFH

    In our office we all had standard DELL or LENOVO keyboards until one day a new starter brought his own clicky keyboard in, it was far too noisy and everyone was complaining.

    We had to invoke corporate health and safety to get him to swap it back over.

    Best kept for isolated development if you must have one of these things.

  21. Richard Pennington 1

    Probably a generational thing

    Linus Torvalds is now 55. I am now in my mid-60s. I want my keyboard, mouse and screen to suit me, and I guess Linus feels the same way.

    So ... I use a large-screen iMac (27-inch screen + 24-inch second screen), not a fiddly phone [and I preach hellfire and damnation for everyone who claims that their product "works better on the app" ... which has variants only for Android or iPhone].

    And I use a full-size "clicky" keyboard. Not the pathetic excuse which turns up on a phone screen. I want it big enough for my hands, and I want the physical feedback. Incidentally, my typing style is ... weird. I frequently type one-handed, and a caretaker who was doing the rounds of the building at one of my previous employers commented - correctly - that I play the piano. I have a piano with weighted keys and a proper action ... not a touchscreen. A pattern emerges.

  22. Sherrie Ludwig

    Are we sure it's him?

    No profanity in this message, so either he's mellowing or it isn't him.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm finding my bog roll a bit coarse and it's causing some discomfort. Could we have a report on the brand that Linus prefers?

  24. robinsonb5

    I found I prefer full-size boards - and the best ones are still those from the 80s and 90s.

    I use a Model M as a daily driver, but have collected some other vintage boards from EBay over the last couple of years.

    My favourite feeling full-size board so far (apart from the model M, of course) is an IZE OK-100 (not the OK-100M, which is a rubber-dome-and-membrane board) - the ATW Alps clone switches feel fantastic, the only downside being that they ping like a kalimba!

    My most recent acquisition is an Apple M0116 board, not full-size and needs some restoration - but again the key feel is amazing compared with regular keyboards.

    My biggest surprise, though, was an old cheap e-machines (remember them?) keyboard - just a rubber-dome-and-membrane keyboard but the best feeling non-mechanical board I've ever used.

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