Tesla fudged odometer to screw me out of warranty, Model Y owner claims

Tesla has been accused of somehow sneakily altering a customer's odometer to hasten the end of his vehicle's warranty period. On December 9, 2022, Nyree Hinton, a California financial analyst, bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla with 36,772 miles on the clock, which meant it was still covered under its 50,000-mile warranty. He …

[Bilby]

Calm down...

"The swarm of violent attacks on Tesla property is nothing short of domestic terrorism," she thundered. "The Department of Justice has already charged several perpetrators with that in mind, including in cases that involve charges with five-year mandatory minimum sentences."

Calm down, it's not like it was the Reichstag that was set on fire...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Calm down...

Terrorism is terrorism - off to the Salvadorean death camps for you.

[G.Y.]

name e: Calm down...

call them "Dachau west"

[Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck]

Re: Calm down...

The only "terrorists" I'm actually aware of are in the Oval Office...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Calm down...

>... these are the work of paid extremists, as opposed to just pissed-off citizens, and last month Attorney General Pamela Bondi announced a crackdown.

You missed this bit.

This is the work of Ford.

Doug Ford. That's why we will liberate the "Great White Gaza" to stop his terrorist attacks on Super chargers.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cockup?

Instead of counting the number (N) of revolutions the wheels make using the wheel tyre size (D) and calculating N×πD† à la old school, the on board computer is probably integrating velocity (should be speed) against time ʃ |v|.dt - with accumulating measurement errors rendering the result rather random. Likewise taking GPS positions and summing the distances (lengths) between successive positions could be just as error prone.

If a conspiracy Musk and Co. then have cocked that up as it was so easily discoverable. I had the impression that these vehicles incessantly phoned home all sorts of information such as vehicles location which I would also assume is retained by Tesla. If I were the plaintiff I would subpoena those records.

_{† N×3D in Alabama.}

[Roland 2]

Re: Cockup?

This cockup tale is unconvincing and appears to be a smokescreen designed to sow doubt on the plaintiff.

GPS combined with accelerometer dead reckoning offers extremely high accuracy (see Kalman filter on Wikipedia). The accumulated error would be well below 1% per trip, making it more accurate than wheel rotation counting over several months.

[Ball boy]

Re: Cockup?

When my navigation app is fired up, it sometimes mislocates my position before it fully acquires a lock. Is it possible that, in Tesla's code, any 'leaps' from false locations to known-good ones are recorded as mileage travelled? In fairness, I don't see this happen with my app very often and, when it does, the assumed location is usually only a street or so away so it seems unlikely that this would make a noticeable difference were it recorded - but I have no idea how Tesla interact with the raw data. Never has YMMV been quite so apt!

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Cockup?

My Garmin Forerunner 645 GPS enabled device often has different distances for my 'easy' training run. Starting and finishing at the same place, taking the same route. Toady it was 2.43 km, on Tuesday it was 2.45km, in the previous weeks it was 2.5km, and 2.47km. So a GPS can be out by over 10%. Still doesn't explain how a 55mile route became a 100mile route though.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cockup?

Taking the extremes in your example, 2.5 and 2.43 km, the difference is 2.8%, not 10.

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Cockup?

Upvoted for accuracy, Thanks.

Checking my device I see that the route was recorded as 2.62km on 20210210 (10th Feb 2021), so a new error of about 7%. But I accept your point.

(Writes out 100 times:

I must check my arithmetic

I must check my arithmetic

...

)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cockup?

Still 98 times to go!

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Cockup?

I must check my arithmetic

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[Stevie]

Re: Cockup?

Damn that shiny'n'expensive X-calculator!

[vtcodger]

Re: Cockup?

GPS can yield quite accurate latitude longitude positions (elevation isn't as good for reasons I won't go into). But it requires multiple readings. For high precision, differential GPS which requires a signal from a nearby site at a known location is often used. For mobile applications, there are a bunch of problems if buildings, terrain or even really dense foliage block signals from some satellites. In urban areas, multipath reflections off buildings can lead to substantial errors. There also are, or at least used to be, some GPS "dead spots" where GPS works poorly or not at all for no very obvious reason(s).

Don't get me wrong. I think GPS is terrific. But as with much to much modern technology, many people tend to give credence to the marketing hype and ignore the worst case problems.

That said, I'm curious why one would use GPS for speed estimation when wheel speed sensors on all four wheels are presumably needed for ABS braking. I'm 98% certain our 2017 uses those sensors to drive the speedometer/odometer.

[Not Yb]

Re: Cockup?

Cars aren't meant to be using GPS to work out how far they've traveled. Every one I've ever seen uses wheel revolutions, speed, crankshaft, or some other set of physical sensors indirectly connected to the road to work it out.

If Tesla is reporting something that it has incorrectly calculated by using satellite data that's known to be flaky on occasion, that's not just a cock up, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what an odometer is supposed to be.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cockup?

"Cars aren't meant to be using GPS to work out how far they've traveled. Every one I've ever seen uses wheel revolutions, speed, crankshaft, or some other set of physical sensors indirectly connected to the road to work it out."

My Android head unit can read distance via GPS or from the car's CANbus which I expect is detected from a shaft pickup as the car doesn't have GPS built-in natively. Using Torque Pro, my trip meter page displays both and the agree close enough for me. For accounting, I use the car's odometer in the instrument cluster.

[vtcodger]

Re: Cockup?

"See Kalman filter on Wikipedia"

We're off in the world of conjecture here as I don't think we really know how Tesla mileage metering works. But I should point out that Kalman filters although much loved by mathematicians, don't necessarily work all that well in practice. Basically Kalman filters build a model of whatever is being analyzed using statistical techniques. They then reject "noise" -- which is to say data points that seem improbable based on the model. That can work brilliantly. If it didn't, Kalman filtering wouldn't be used much. But they can have a problem if the data rejection isn't set up properly for the particular problem. In simple terms, the problem is described as "tracking the model". What happens is that the filter works well unless the conditions change. Sometimes, if conditions change too quickly, the filter can fail to adjust it's criteria fast enough. It will then reject the new data as being too unlikely to believe.

Example: An aircraft flies in a straight line for a long time at constant speed. A statistical filter smooths radar data observing the aircraft and, once everything settles down, it comes up with much better estimates of position than the single radar data points would give. However, if the aircraft abruptly changes direction and or speed the model may not "open up" sufficiently quickly to accept the new data. The model will then wander off projecting the aircraft to be somewhere it isn't.

I scanned the Wikipedia article and didn't see that addressed. My guess would be that it is addressed, but not necessarily in terms that are easily understood.

Is it possible that a Muskmobile could have a faulty shiny new fangled digital technological odometer? Seems credible to me

[Irongut]

Re: Cockup?

> GPS combined with accelerometer dead reckoning offers extremely high accuracy

ROFL.

I can sit in one place and walk kilometers according to the GPS on my watch.

[goblinski]

Re: Cockup?

...I can sit in one place and walk kilometers according to the GPS on my watch...

Pr0nHub and watch accelerometers have a stressful relationship. I heard this from a friend, so don't quote me.

[The Travelling Dangleberries]

Re: Cockup?

When it comes to Musk in general and Tesla in particular it is best to apply Hanlon's razor inversely.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cockup?

That's got to be the stupidest thing I've seen so far today.

NO.

The most accurate way to measure how far a car has traveled IS wheel rotations. GPS is great for momentary "where am I" data, it's WORTHLESS for "how far have I gone over time". It's just way too glitchy.

I use a GPS-based mileage tracker on my phone for tax purposes. Last year's data is useless, I'm gonna have to fudge it. It claims my business miles are MORE than my total miles driven for the year. And no, I didn't take any flights or spend virtually any time on public transport in 2024 (I think I was on a train a total of a few hundred miles, my mileage tracker app activates from a USB dongle in my car, so it wouldn't have even activated for that, and the GPS mileage was well over a thousand miles away from reality).

Gas mileage tracking, which I do from odometer reading inputs and gallons, is basically spot on with what it should be for the car.

If you actually believe GPS is more reliable than wheel rotations, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Marty McFly]

Re: Cockup?

Good debate over GPS accuracy vs. wheel rotations.

However, I am taking a dim view to the individual's 'evidence' using historical mileage records of his commutes. It would have been very easy to use a GPS device to validate the miles accumulated in the Tesla. That would provide hard evidence of incorrect odometer readings. No, it would not be precisely accurate, but it would certainly be good enough to support the allegations of the false 117% increase in traveled miles.

Fixed mounted GoPro, the Tesla's odometer & standalone GPS showing, then post the video to YouTube. Do fresh updates every day to prove it is not some AI generated misinformation. A trivial task to do. Then watch copy-cat Tesla owners do the same thing. That would get A LOT more attention than a lawsuit.

Unless, of course, there is questionable data in the individual's historical mileage records and the difference is not as big as initially presented....hence my dim view.

[goblinski]

Re: Cockup?

That's got to be the stupidest thing I've seen so far today...

Well now... don't sell yourself short ??? You'r still in the race. Don't give up :-P

To me, the stupidest thing seen today is someone preaching about other people's stupidity while boasting about gas mileage tracking using a device that is legally not mandated to be accurate (although there are laws against tampering with it), and has just a recommendation of ±4% accuracy.

Consistency over the long term - yes, absolutely.

Accuracy - not by a long shot.

[Kjm35]

Re: Cockup?

You must be American to assume wheel rotations are not accurate nor mandated to be accurate.

In the uk there are strict rules on accuracy. Odometers are not allowed to under read but may be over by up to 10%.

My last car seemed to be over by about 9%. Current is over by around 6%.

Some tolerance is due to tyre diameter changing over time with wear.

So please remember just because you are allowed more water to shower, does not mean you have anything like the motoring regulations other nations have.

[goblinski]

Re: Cockup?

"...Odometers are not allowed to under read but may be over by up to 10%..."

So, somehow they can be over by up to 10%, but yet they are accurate, and my point about them being consistent (including in showing the wrong value) but not mandatorily accurate is void because I happen to now live in the US ?

And both your last and your current cars cheat on you by north of 5%, but you are okay pontificating that people relying on GPS for measurements are stupid ?

Le ridicule ne tue pas :D

PS: Yep, the US are way behind in motoring regulations. They didn't make catalytic converters mandatory 18 years before Europe.

[Stevie]

Re: Cockup?

The most accurate way to measure distance is a click wheel onna stick, confirmed with moment-by-moment doppler radar'n'sonar coupled with AI-assisted milepost-reading cameras, all Fourier transformed on-the-fly and compared with a flex-drive powered moving magnet analog display from an old Mini Traveller.

[jake]

Re: Cockup?

I use Grandad's old theadolite.

[Not Yb]

Re: Cockup?

Sensor fusion for the win!

[Stevie]

Re: Cockup?

But the wheel-rotation county-thing is already part of most modern cars.

It's how low tyre pressures are worked out on cars sans pressure sensor Schreaders.

Off-the-shelf mature tech.

[Not Yb]

Re: Cockup?

I had a car that would regularly turn on the ABS light if one of the tires was too low. Could easily drive it on 3 properly inflated tires, so that came in handy a few times.

[Annihilator]

Re: Cockup?

"GPS combined with accelerometer dead reckoning offers extremely high accuracy (see Kalman filter on Wikipedia). The accumulated error would be well below 1% per trip, making it more accurate than wheel rotation counting over several months."

When the Tesla's sitting on a tow-truck or a car transporter for example, the odometer moves then? But on a rolling road for an MOT test, the odometer doesn't move?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cockup?

You forget, someone* at Tesla has an obsession with only using cameras as data to the onboard computer.

Why waste time counting wheels turning or trusting somebody else's satellites** when the car can just read the signs on the highway!

* Perhaps fond of extravagant waving to the crowd

** Ranging from Starlink coming soon

[Androgynous Cupboard]

Re: Cockup?

I had the same thought; revolution counters might just be a bit old-fashioned for we-don't-need-LIDAR Musk. But it would also mean a speed of zero whenever you enterered a tunnel and lost satellite comms, or a speed of non-zero on a car ferry. Easy enough to verify.

[Not Yb]

Re: Cockup?

Starlink isn't big enough for an atomic clock. Maybe if they just use some that are reasonably accurate and wave hands at the problem until AI magically solves the problems?

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cockup?

"Starlink isn't big enough for an atomic clock."

Not for one built-in, but they could have a very very accurate timebase that gets corrections from a ground station from time to time (so to speak).

A gazillion years ago when I worked at a telecommunications supply shop in Los Angeles, CBS television installed a very accurate timebase on their transmitter so it was a handy reference check (55.25mHz).

[ABugNamedJune]

Re: Cockup?

From what I've seen of Tesla practices, the odometer is probably based on AI assumptions of routes (aka a mechanical turk based in India where people are paid to estimate how far you've traveled based on google maps data)

[O RLY]

Re: Cockup?

"† N×3D in Alabama."

I think you'll find it was Indiana, not Alabama, that tried to pi = 3.2 and sqrt(2) = 10/7 by law.

[WolfFan]

Re: Cockup?

Indiana wanted pi to be 4. Well, it's complicated. Indiana actually wanted to make the area of a circle of diameter d is equal to the area of a 'equitaleral rectangle', a.k.a. a square, with sides of length d. in order to get this, pi divided by 4 has to equal 1, so pi equals 4. The actual language of the bull in question never mentions pi. The nonsense was stopped when it was pointed out the state legislatures lack the ability to change mathematical concepts.

Indiana wants me, lord I can't go back there.

[Bill Gray]

Re: Cockup?

I think the reference is to an April Fool's Day prank saying that Alabama had officially reset π to the "Biblical value" of 3.

"The Bible very clearly says in I Kings 7:23 that the alter [sic] font of Solomon's Temple was ten cubits across and thirty cubits in diameter, and that it was round in compass."

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cockup?

""The Bible very clearly says in I Kings 7:23 that the alter [sic] font of Solomon's Temple was ten cubits across and thirty cubits in diameter, and that it was round in compass.""

A big problem with that is how many times the Christian Bible has been translated and the precise dimension of a cubit varies quite a lot.

[DS999]

Re: Cockup?

I doubt they are doing it that way because it would be illegal. There are laws about how odometers have to work in the US that long predate GPS so Tesla would have no choice in the matter.

If it really turned out they were doing it differently then if it wasn't daddy Trump in the White House NTHSA would recall every Tesla on the road and make them replace their odometer, and a lot of states would probably prevent registration renewals until they could certify that work had been completed.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cockup?

"I doubt they are doing it that way because it would be illegal. "

And this would stop Elon from insisting on it being done that way, how?

The launch tower for Starship was advertised as an "integration" tower to duck some regs. The flame trench they are building for launch tower B hasn't had any mention of approval from the Army Corps of Engineering which is required due to the location of the site.

Elon gets away with so many things that he should just come out an admit that he sees himself as a narcissistic anarchist.

[Pascal Monett]

[somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

That was his first mistake.

[blu3b3rry]

Re: [somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

With their legendary customer service and build quality, why wouldn't you buy one?

[Joe W]

Re: [somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

You just pick up the parts that drop off and build your own over time...

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: [somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

Could be a useful source of street lithium I guess.

[Androgynous Cupboard]

Re: [somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

Is that like regular Lithium, but you have to wrap up warm?

[Paul Herber]

Re: [somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

Does Johnny Cash own a Tesla?

[Michael Strorm]

Full Self Disintegrating

Ah, you got there first!

On the flip side, while some poor sod can pick up a Tesla one piece at a time, the previous owner is also getting rid of theirs the same way!

[TangoDelta72]

Nah... Janis Joplin

Her friends all drive Teslas, she must make amends!

[LBJsPNS]

Re: [somebody] bought a used 2020 Model Y Tesla

"All the parts falling off this vehicle are a product of quality BritishAmerican manufacturing."

[NXM]

bits dropping off

There was a story about British Leyland which went that "workers" routinely nicked various car parts over time and assembled a complete car in their garage. The company only realised when cars they hadn't made arrived back for warranty repairs.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: bits dropping off

Could be wrong, but I suspect that might be an urban myth inspired by the aforementioned- or alluded to- Johnny Cash song!

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: bits dropping off

I'd like to meet the BL worker who stole the engine block[*] and nonchalantly walked out the gate at end of shift with it tucked down his trousers :-)

* or any of the other large, heavy or bulky parts such as a gearbox, door, seat etc.

[Rob Daglish]

Re: bits dropping off

I personally know of a motorcycle trailer being fabricated by a welder with materials from a site he was working on which was then driven off site with no questions asked by the security guards*

The same “company” had another occasion where a large (20kwish) diesel generator was ordered, then pretty much straight away trailered offsite to provide power to an employee’s house while waiting for the mains to be connected, again right past the guard house.

*Guards are more interested in who/what goes in, the scans on the way out are more interested in radioactive materials.

Anyway, the answer is obvious. You don’t take any car parts home, you stash them onsite, build it and drive the finished thing away.

[MachDiamond]

Re: bits dropping off

"The same “company” had another occasion where a large (20kwish) diesel generator was ordered, then pretty much straight away trailered offsite to provide power to an employee’s house while waiting for the mains to be connected, again right past the guard house."

As if the guards are going to check in and out every tool and piece of machinery that goes in and out of the gate. I suspect that one can get away with quite a lot if one has a large set of brass ones.

[MachDiamond]

Re: bits dropping off

"There was a story about British Leyland which went that "workers" routinely nicked various car parts over time and assembled a complete car in their garage. "

That reminds me of a MASH episode where the soldier in charge of the motor pool was mailing a jeep home a few parts at a time.

[collinsl]

Re: bits dropping off

That came up in "The Navy Lark" in the 1950s on UK radio, it's certainly not a new concept in comedy by any means.

[Doctor Evil]

What smells?

Tesla ... das fahrt, ja!

[Anonymous Coward]

Vehicle odometry, ..

I had a 1998-model Ford, and every year I'd need to take it for an oil change, with the odometer showing 4000-5000 miles since the last change.

Oddly, the only driving I did was a once-weekly 30-mile round trip to get groceries, and fill up with gas once a month (half tank, 8gal, 13-15mpg, 120mi/mo). Once a month I'd make a drive to the hardware store, or to pick something up off Craigslist - 20-50mi round trip, 500mi/year, tops. Once a year I'd go to an event in another state, 250mi round trip (under an hour and a half, 65mph).

Sum it all together - 1200mi grocery store, 500mi craigslist/hardware, 250mi event, less than 2000 miles total. Yet every, single, year, I would have 3000-5000 miles on this vehicle. I remarked a few times that it's like someone steals it every week and then puts it back before the weekend, having filled the gas tank with what they used. (off 0.75mi/rotation? off 75mi per 1000.. it seems not enough.)

I really think those turn-over gears for the higher digits of the mileage gauge just don't work well. I can't see how they don't, but they don't. Vehicle mileage seems to be much less than is reported. Maybe the error on the 10miles wheel is sufficient enough that I don't see it in gas guzzlage, but it shows up significantly on the 100-1000 mile wheels.

[Paul Herber]

Re: Vehicle odometry, ..

You are using litres and kilometers, which is probably actually illegal in parts (or all) of the USA. Check the temperature gauges aren't also set to Celcius.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Vehicle odometry, ..

Don't try to put Celsius into you car instead of gas !

[vtcodger]

Re: Vehicle odometry, ..

Assuming a mechanical odometer rather than a digital one, here's a good article on how they work https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/odometer.htm Lot's of ways for it to fail completely and just stop working. Not easy to see how it could be way wrong and still work after a fashion. Maybe it was replaced at some point with an odometer for some other model with a different transmission and gear ratio?

[Not Yb]

Re: Vehicle odometry, ..

Mechanical odometers haven't been used for decades now. Now that everything has ABS, they just use the wheel speed sensors.

[brainwrong]

Re: Vehicle odometry, ..

"Vehicle mileage seems to be much less than is reported."

Detailed logs of odometer readings with each journey will soon get to the bottom of what's going on, that's what the subject of the article should have done. It's really easy to do (a pen and piece of paper), and will carry more weight in a court of law then bleating vague statements about excessive mileage.

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop burning Teslas!

Just let nature (physics) take its course.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Stop burning Teslas!

Sometimes, use of Autopilot results in activation of the special SelfDestruct mode

[Paul Herber]

Re: Stop burning Teslas!

Noel takes that on stage with him.

[EricM]

"because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

Does not compute.

Recalls apply to specific cars/models, not to buyers.

Recalls are done for failures that are relevant for security and failing suspension parts fall squarely into this category.

Recalls are not connected to warranty in any way.

Or is this suppoesed to mean that the actual car was not covered by that specific recall, independent from its warranty status?

This seems odd, as the part covered by the recall later failed as expected...

As parts deteching from Teslas have become a pretty common phenomenon, maybe everyone is losing a bit of overview here?

[Aldnus]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

failing suspension parts unless physically deteriorating would be a case of fair wear and tear and subject to maintenance. without knowing the specifics some suspension parts at 50k could easily be worn out and need replacing, suspension take the weight of the whole vehicle and with the added weight hey will wear out faster.

[MrBanana]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

Nope, "fair wear and tear" for a suspension component would be a bad bearing, a worn bushing, or a leaking shock. Having the suspension catastrophically fail, with the fault already subject to a safety recall, is a problem for Tesla. Not the poor sod who bought the thing. It isn't a warranty issue. I had a safety recall in 2018 for my 2007 Subaru when I was the third owner, and it was well out of warranty.

[Roland6]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

>” some suspension parts at 50k could easily be worn out and need replacing”

Not had to do that since I stop driving cars built before circa 1990. Although if you do a lot of off roading things may be different.

[werdsmith]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

With modern poor road maintenance, bushes tend to get a bit of a hard time.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

"With modern poor road maintenance, bushes tend to get a bit of a hard time.

Oh, you mean mechanical bushes - it all makes sense now.

For a moment I had a picture in my mind of a car bouncing off the pot-holes and disappearing into the undergrowth.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

I was picturing bushes growing in the potholes in the middle of the road :-)

[Giles C]

Re: "because the warranty had expired and the recall didn't apply to him."

Round here that is common, the grass in the middle of the roads gets high enough to give the bottom of the car a free clean as you drive along.

[Anonymous Coward]

FSO

Full Self Odometry

Will be completely accurate within two years.

[JimmyPage]

If the odometer is fucked

Then is the speedo to be trusted ?

A very important question for anyone caught speeding in a Tesla ?

[Roland6]

Re: If the odometer is fucked

If you’ve been caught it’s too late, the speed camera will have its calibration testing audit trail, so,the court will side with the police. Hence it’s an important question for anyone who does not wish to be accidentally caught speeding.

[BartyFartsLast]

don't go sarf of the river after midnight mate

Maybe the car was moonlighting as an autonomous taxi to help prop up Elmo's falling profits?

[That Badger]

Subsidies in NL ending.

Sales of electic cars in The Netherlands are down because subsidies and exemption from road tax are ending. These cars are much heavier than the average petrol car, too, so the road tax is going to be high. Not many people would have been buying electric cars if it weren't for the government helping them along.

[GuldenNL]

Re: Subsidies in NL ending.

Down votes for the obvious? Must be from the very high number of Anonymous commenters in this news article.

Odd

[Patrick R]

Re: Down votes for the obvious?

You said it. Also it's irrelevant to the article. Could as well come from AI.

[That Badger]

Re: Down votes for the obvious?

Clearly you haven't fully read the article, especially the text under "Tesla's popularity tumbles". It mentions The Netherlands (and other countries). My post was relevant.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Subsidies in NL ending.

"Not many people would have been buying electric cars if it weren't for the government helping them along."

I'm sure the subsidies were very handy, but having the infrastructure to support EV's is also key. The GVW for a Chevy Bolt is about 1/2mt more than my petrol car dry. The Bolt is still half of what a "full size" SUV in the US weighs.

I'd love to have a "full tank" each morning by being able to charge at home even though it might be about 1/2 the range of my car now. Not having to visit a petrol station along with the possibility of being able to generate my own energy to stick in the battery would be nice. The very few times I'd travel further than a single charge could be planned to have a charging stop. Chance are I'd need to stop for a pee anyway.

[MrBanana]

Tesla isn't a car maker

Although Tesla has some clever battery and motor technology, their ability to design, screw together the nuts and bolts that make up an actual car, and provide service maintenance seems woeful. I'd much rather have an EV from mainstream manufacturer, even if the battery technology is imperfect, than have a Tesla that will fall apart mechanically in 3 years.

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Tesla isn't a car maker

They squandered their market lead and instead of becoming a car manufacturer they've have had recall after recall as well as some rather high profile issues with QC, some awful accidents caused by their dodgy hard/software, couple that with their anti competitive practices like killing off supercharging if you dare have your car repaired by a non Tesla workshop and then sprinkle Elon on top of that whole shit cake.

I'd rather walk than buy a Tesla

[Evil Scot]

Re: Tesla isn't a car maker

Or Compile an OS.

Who TF logs the OS in a production product.

The same company that blame the memory manufacturer when switching from SLC NAND to MLC... "We have changed our suppliers"

[MachDiamond]

Re: Tesla isn't a car maker

"Although Tesla has some clever battery and motor technology"

Their motor design is quite good. The battery cells they primarily source from outside vendors. The cells they are making in Texas still have issues with yields as they try to maximize energy density and fiddle with not-ready-for-prime-time designs. At the plant in Germany, they use Blade cells from BYD in the Model Y (perhaps not all of them). Panasonic has been the main supplier in the US. CATL is a principal supplier in China.

Ford in Europe is building chassis they stick on top of VW MEB platforms. The Chevy Bolt is/was built on a LG drivetrain/battery. Given how the politics are swinging from the chandeliers in the US, who knows where the auto industry might wind up.

While Tesla has some good tech, they still don't build a car worth a damn. What I hate is other manufacturers copying the things from Tesla that I really dislike thinking it "improves" their designs and it's "what customers are demanding".

[Howard Sway]

Meanwhile, Tesla's vaunted stock price is sliding, down nearly 37 percent

Maybe the odometer is index linked to the share price : the more it falls, the faster the mileage increases. In any case, if the cars can't accurately measure the distance travelled to within less than a metre, then the idea that they can safely drive themselves is just laughable.

[nautica]

There is a very easy solution to this problem:

...don't buy a Tesla.

-------------------------------------------------

"There is no problem so complicated that you can't find a very simple answer to it if you look at it right."

Douglas Adams, “The Salmon of Doubt: Hitchhiking the Galaxy One Last Time”

[VicMortimer]

I see the problem here.

The fool bought a Turdla. And bought it after we all knew how shit they are, and how much even shittier the CEO is.

I'm all in favor of electric cars, this should have been the year new ICE vehicle production was banned worldwide. But Turdlas are just plain garbage.

[Richard Tobin]

They're self-driving, remember? You have no idea where they're going while you're asleep.

[GuldenNL]

Easy, they're in Robotaxi mode picking up MAGA at alternative lifestyle events after dark. And depositing their welfare funds into bot accounts buying Tesla stock.

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, El Reg

> ...did multiple apparent Sieg Heils live on TV...

No. He said "my heart goes out to you," and made a gesture you wish to interpret as a Roman salute. There are plenty of politicians who raised their hands like that in the past. Hell, Mexico still does it in official contexts.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: OK, El Reg

your defending a nazi

you know what that makes you,

A Fucking NAZI bastard

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: OK, El Reg

from the dissapperance of anti-nazi posts, I'm leaning towards el-reg moderators might actually be nazi supporters too?

[G2]

mileage depends on (calibrated) wheel size but ...

the odometer of a vehicle is designed to be accurate for the exact tyre size and tyre pressure as specified in the datasheet and that is delivered with the (new) vehicle. (and also, that size+pressure is usually shown on the plate near the driver door)

if the driver uses smaller size tyre rims and low profile tyres (usually done when lowering the car height) that will result in MORE miles registered on the odometer simply because the wheel needs to do more rotations to cover the same distance. Smaller wheel radius = it spins faster to cover the same real-world distance but the on-board ECU was calibrated for a different wheel size.

Equally, tyres that are under-inflated (usually done for more road grip) can sometimes have similar effects on the odometer - not as much as a smaller rim though.

But... in the case of a Tesla though... i think it might probably also use GPS data to compute odometer trips...and if it was shipped multiple times it probably registered those trips on the internal GPS as if it was driven and not shipped on a platform. Or maybe it was "shipped" in the sense that they hired multiple drivers to move it from one place to the other?

[Richard 12]

Re: mileage depends on (calibrated) wheel size but ...

Yes, however the difference is quite small.

A Tesla Model Y tyre is 28.03 inches in diameter according to Google's AI.

If it's very underinflated so it compresses by 1" more than it should, the odometer would be off by 3.6%.

[jake]

Re: mileage depends on (calibrated) wheel size but ...

According to a mechanic friend of mine, a Tesla's computer can sometimes freak out (his words, not mine) if one tire has a slow leak in it.

_{I have no idea what he meant by slow ... putting in a call now, just in case someone wants the info. Stay tuned.}

[jake]

Re: mileage depends on (calibrated) wheel size but ...

Replying to myself (I know, I know ... I plead extenuating circumstances. Have a beer for your trouble.) ...

"Slow" is four or five days to drop 10psi, sometimes causes to computer to force the car into some kind of limp mode that needs expensive diagnostic software to re-set. The software can be rented for a day if you don't want to pay a mechanic who bought a yearly license, or worse the stealership, to reset it for you.

[IGotOut]

Holy shit....

...this is why Europeans don't buy US cars.

I've a little Hyundai with 112,000 miles on the clock, and the most serious issue it's had is 2 of the 3 ignition leads started to fray. Cost £16 each to buy.

The Cat pipe will need either replacing or welding soon, but that's it!

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Holy shit....

Europeans buy lots of US cars. They just aren't designed and, more importantly, aren't built in the USA. Ford have been building cars in Europe since the early 1900's, and others followed by either setting up shop here or buying up existing manufactures. How the slippery web of ownership exists today is a whole other hovercraft full of eels.

[IGotOut]

Re: Holy shit....

They are not US cars.

As you stated, they are designed, manufactured and assembled in Europe.

They are owned by US companies, but they are not US cars.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Holy shit....

And yet most people would say the iPhone is a US device...even though it's not even built by a US owned company ;-)

[Mitoo Bobsworth]

"Oh, sir wants reliability?"

"I'm afraid that's our premium option - and, of course, its not guaranteed. Is sir interested?"

[Stevie]

Bah and Double Bah!

The only time a regular journey got longer in my old Mini was when the fan belt snapped on the A11 outside Thetford on my weekly trip from Norwich to Coventry. Feeding the replacement belt* through the 16-blade fan in the dark in a pouring rainstorm** made the journey seem very long indeed.

*Every vintage Mini owner carried a full set of tools and kept the old fan belt when they replaced it. You think fitting a pre-stretched fan-belt was tedious? Not if you'd had the "joy" of fitting a new one.

**Any fule knows that if you have an old and fixable car (one that doesn't require a computer technician to get working again but that can be made functional with wire, pliers and some stuff from the glove compartment) that when called upon to break out the socket set on the road side the heavens will open at biblical levels. This is why all old car owners carry WD40. Liberal application of the wonder juice is the only way to de-wet the ignition components once you've bent the points back into shape and changed a defunct plug for one of the old ones in the boot. Provided the exhaust-to-manifold joint is tight there is little chance of a large fire starting once the engine does.

[IGotOut]

Re: Bah and Double Bah!

On the flip side.

My 112,000 mile Hyundai has only failed twice to start first time. It started on the second.

People long for the good old days of breakdowns, half a matchstick behind the choke , piss poor economy and using as much oil as petrol.

That said, I do miss the driver feedback from old cars, hence I owned a kit car for several years, which broke down, often failed to start, had piss poor economy...but went like a bat out of hell.

[jake]

Re: Bah and Double Bah!

Kit cars are only as decent as the builder's ability.

That's to say mostly not. I have driven exceptions, but they are few and far between.

[Stevie]

Re: Bah and Double Bah!

Unless you own a late 70s Nova.

The highways, byways and motorways were littered with lines of overheated Novas circa 1980.

It transpires that at decent touring speeds the airflow over the car caused the air intakes on the rear side panels to become exhausts and the hot air from the road drawn over the hot engine induced Involuntary Park Mode.

[spuck]

Re: Bah and Double Bah!

Judging from many of the reports I've read on the Interwebs, it sounds like many of the pre-2019 Teslas on the road today should be considered kit cars by this definition.

[the Jim bloke]

All this hate on Tesla

for obvious and valid reasons

and yet Musks other Flagship seems to have quietly taken over global supremacy..

Every government or public news announcement I have seen for the last couple of months has its original publication message in a box out with the stupid X logo...

Dont Meta or the old media empires get a look in any more?

All the anti-tesla protests and publicity stunts are probably being coordinated on peoples X accounts.

If you want to get rid of Elon, you need to get off the Xitter..

[Excused Boots]

Hang on; "the car's suspension finally gave out and detached from the vehicle"; well that must have been fairly spectacular, assuming it happened while doing 60 mph!

[Kev99]

Boo hoo hoo, Elon. Maybe you should be deported "accidentally" back to South Africa where you try to restore apartheid there instead of bringing it to the US.

[spuck]

Warranty work

All the odometer nonsense aside...

If the car was brought into the shop twice for warranty work while the warranty was in effect, the manufacturer doesn't get to give up on the repairs still in progress if the warranty period happens to expire before the repair is done. The owner in the original story should go on that angle, perhaps to his state's Attorney General, if needed.