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back to article Meta debuts its first 'mixture of experts' models from the Llama 4 herd

Meta has debuted the first two models in its Llama 4 family, its first to use mixture of experts tech. A Saturday post from the social media giant announced the release of two models: Llama 4 Scout, which has 109 billion parameters, 17 billion of which are active across its 16 experts at any given time. Meta says it can fit …

  1. Camilla Smythe

    GOAT

    Snigger.

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Ah, progress by numbers

    We used to have the FLOPS argument about CPUs, then we had the pixels argument about graphics cards, now we're having the trillion parameters argument about LLMs.

    So, when will we finally reach the singularity ? A hundred trillion ? A billion trillion ?

    What'll it be ?

    1. bitwise

      Re: Ah, progress by numbers

      Is the plan to convert the planet into one big (racist) computer ?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ah, progress by numbers

      If it's not Olympic sized swimming pools or double decker buses I'm not going to understand it.

      1. captain veg Silver badge

        Re: Ah, progress by numbers

        Or olympic buses and double-decker swimming pools.

        -A.

  3. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

    Left, right, left

    I don't care what the perceived political bias of the output the model comes up with is. I just want it to biased toward reality.

    If fixing a model's political orientation makes it spout liquid shit, then

    - that's not unexpected from a political point of view

    - that's not unexpected from a corporate point of view

    - that's not unexpected from a computer science point of view

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Left, right, left

      @Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch

      "I don't care what the perceived political bias of the output the model comes up with is. I just want it to biased toward reality."

      I do wonder who is running a model for a chat about politics but to each their own. As you say a bias toward reality would be far more useful.

    2. LionelB Silver badge

      Re: Left, right, left

      Unfortunately, reality can be very, very unpleasant indeed. People may be racist, misogynistic, violent, bigoted, elitist, sadistic, bullying, mad, deluded and stupid beyond belief - that is a reality. Whether it's one we want thrown back raw and unfiltered in our faces is another question.

      1. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

        Re: Left, right, left

        Σ(opinionn)/n ≠ reality

        1. LionelB Silver badge

          Re: Left, right, left

          Opinions exist; they are indeed a part of reality - their content, though, frequently not so much. (And indeed, are humans' views and beliefs about their relation to the world and other humans in it not real?)

          And therein lies the problem: LLMs are trained almost exclusively on the opinion part of reality.

          On the other hand, we humans are, arguably, trained on the full reality... and look what we get. The problem is that (did I mention?) opinion is part of reality, and, it seems, a part we choose to weight unduly heavily. (Hence religion, superstition, quackery, conspiracy theory, post-truth and other woo.)

    3. Andrew Scott

      Re: Left, right, left

      how can any llm possibly be biased toward "reality"? what is the source of its imput? Is the head of meta's output based on "reality"? Does the input have data sourced from those twits on X? How do you expect the llm to filter out the biases and keep what's real?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Leans left - from a US perspective.

    So from the p.o.v. of RotW, they go straight down the middle.

    And this is being "fixed"?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Jimmy2Cows

      Re: Leans left - from a US perspective.

      Meta is just desperately kissing Trump's rump and stay on his good side. They've never cared about the quality of their output. For the rest of the world this means sifting through even more steaming piles of right-wing garbage and alternative truths.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Leans left - from a US perspective.

      Fixing it to provide a balance. Because every broad consensus needs to be countered with an unhinged rebuttal from an isolated fringe minority, else you risk being branded... dun dun dunnnn!... the Mainstream Media!

      Is your LLM pumping out thoughts on socialised care programs WITHOUT providing a balanced view that just euthanising fat people is a genuine alternative? Bloody leftists!

      1. TheWeetabix

        Re: Leans left - from a US perspective.

        “Having trouble getting enough protein in your diet? Have you considered giving away or renting one of your children? Florida has relaxed child worker protections.”

  5. bitwise

    Problematic

    I'm not sure anyone can use this, since we have no transparency over what they've done to the model.

    There's no transparency on what they've done to this, or the process to bias it.

  6. bitwise

    You would have to be brave to use this for work..

    Imagine the legal trouble a company could find itself in using a model that reflects the current gov of the US, in the rest of the world where people still have rights ?

  7. Howard Sway

    Zuck's sucking up

    He's obviously angling for Musk's job. party as oneupbroship, partly because he doesn't have the space rockets to get the government cash, and a right wing AI will be great way to get his mitts on those taxpayer bucks.

  8. Lomax
    Big Brother

    Reality be damned!

    > "It's well-known that all leading LLMs have had issues with bias — specifically, they historically have leaned left when it comes to debated political and social topics," Meta's launch post states, before attributing that to "the types of training data available on the internet."

    The data on the intertubes isn't right wing enough because the sheeple haven't been fed enough alternative facts - we'll just have to fudge it for now. But give it a generation or two and our new world order will adjust their way of thinking, and the training data will gradually need less "adjustment". Of course we'll have to de-fund science and history to keep the truth safe, but I'm told that's already being done (cheers Elon).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Reality be damned!

      There's a reason that sciences and arts and rational though all 'lean to the left'. That's because rational humans lean to the left, it's those that don't that are the abberation.

      1. Andrew Scott

        Re: Reality be damned!

        Wagner? Plenty of other "Artistic" jackasses out there. Not hard to name movie actors that appear to be despicable people and not left leaning, if that means anything. Known to produce some great art, jut not people you'd want to invite to dinner.

    2. Benegesserict Cumbersomberbatch Silver badge

      Re: Reality be damned!

      And as to that leading sentence: it's not well-known at all that such a bias exists. What is well-known is the lack of cognitive dissonance when facts and political beliefs collide.

      1. Andrew Scott

        Re: Reality be damned!

        one of trumps favorite sayings is "everyone knows this". So should a person pick a political group and then start to examine the facts, or examine reality and then look for people who share what you've seen?

  9. ecofeco Silver badge

    Fancy chabots

    Fancy chatbots are still just fancy chatbots.

    As for philosophical leaning? If they train on authoritarian self destruction, they will reap what they sow.

  10. TheWeetabix

    American-style problems

    Someone: “Lets feed that AI the Constitution, Bill of Rights, The Bible, and the whole reason WWII happened.”

    Someone else in a hat: “What kinda woke leftist shit is that thing spouting? That thing needs an adjustment.”

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