back to article Home Office haunted by 25-year-old asylum system

The effectiveness of new IT systems designed to speed up asylum claim processing in the UK continues to be held back by the Home Office's failure to decommission its 25-year-old case management database, five years after it promised to retire it. In January, the UK's major projects watchdog said the "full benefit" of Atlas, …

  1. PCScreenOnly

    Government and IT systems

    Never fail to show failure

    I wonder whose fault this is

    Not good enough analysis

    Poor requirement gathering

    Scope creep

    Incompetence

    Wrong tool

    Too many customisations for said tool

    worked fine in version 1.0 or said too, but 2.0 made changes and broke all customisations

    Add more to the list as there is bound to be many

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Re: Government and IT systems

      Worst haiku posted here - ever!

    2. Handlebars

      Re: Government and IT systems

      You forgot subsequent business growth.

    3. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Government and IT systems

      Mostly Scope Creep with a large helping of insufficient understanding of the business processes/requirements in the first place

      Spending a few extra million at the outset nailing all that shit down would save tens-to-hundreds later on

      1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

        Re: Government and IT systems

        Part of the scope creep would be trying to incorporate every edge case into the system Sometimes its a good idea to leave space for human intervention in the loop - more flexible and cheaper.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Government and IT systems

      Quote: "....Poor requirement gathering...."

      Where have you been for the last twenty years?

      The "Agile Maifesto" has made the very WORD "requirements" obsolete.....so....so....so......twentieth century!

      What is needed now:

      (1) A large unobstructed wall at least twenty-five feet by twelve feet

      (2) An endless supply of yellow Post-It notes

      (3) Hundreds of "user stories"

      (4) Endless arguments about the next "minimum viable product"

      (5) Endless discussions about how to structure the "scrum of scrums"

      (6) Endless debates about whether to talk to ACTUAL users....or to the "Product Manager"

      (7) .....and so on.....

      .....and of course, with no SINGLE source for "requirements", it's highly likely that the test regime has NOTHING to validate against......

      .....and all the developers believe that "project management" is "interference"......

      Why would anyone believe that this shambles would EVER deliver something useful?

    5. UnknownUnknown Silver badge

      Re: Government and IT systems

      ICL IDMSX still in use ?

  2. Empire of the Pussycat

    We need an enquiry

    So that lessons can be learned.

    1. IGotOut Silver badge

      Re: We need an enquiry

      Then a think tank will be needed to spend 5 years coming up with a policy to implement those learned lessons, which will take 10 years to complete (at 10x original budget).

    2. Korev Silver badge

      Re: We need an enquiry

      > So that lessons can be ignored.

      FTFY

      1. Excused Boots Silver badge

        Re: We need an enquiry

        Er no ‘lessons will be learnt, but not actually acted on because we aren’t competent to do so’.

        Oh no, sorry, that’s effectively the same as what you said, sorry, as you were!

  3. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    Oracle Forms, Visual Basic 6, Oracle DB, MS Office Automation, FaceVACS, VB.Net, and COM+

    That's an "interesting" mix of technologies. It's almost as if it's not a coherent system but a mess that no-one understands.

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Seven chief consultants, seven technologies.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        ... and in the darkness bind them...

    2. TRT Silver badge

      It's what we used to call "a trifle".

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        And not to be trifled with.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          That sort of a structure usually has extra overheads of hundreds and thousands.

          1. Korev Silver badge
            Coat

            They got their just desserts...

            1. Paul Herber Silver badge

              There's always someone to sponge off others and cream off the profits.

              1. David 132 Silver badge
                Coat

                Yes, but the system has to handle cases where asylum seekers and their children have arrived separately.

                So it needs to make sure that the right person gets custardy.

                1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

                  Don't forget that some of the male (real ones not pretendy) asylum seekers have multiple wives so that has to be taken into account.

    3. Tron Silver badge

      Oracle Forms, Visual Basic 6, Oracle DB, MS Office Automation, FaceVACS, VB.Net, and COM+?

      I am shocked and appalled. They could have done it all on paper, and saved a fortune every few years. No upgrades and no subscriptions.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Oracle Forms, Visual Basic 6, Oracle DB, MS Office Automation, FaceVACS, VB.Net, and COM+?

        "They could have done it all on paper, and saved a fortune every few years. No upgrades and no subscriptions."

        Just think of all the jobs the politicians could point to that they created.

    4. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      WTF?

      Oracle Forms, Visual Basic 6, Oracle DB, MS Office Automation, FaceVACS, VB.Net, and COM+

      FaceVACS is apparently an API that supports facial recognition.

      Until today I'd never even heard of FaceVACS.

      My obvious thought was "WTF don't you go Oracle all the way (treat the desktop as a terminal emulator/browser interface) or MS all the way" ?

      Con-sultants call this "Best of breed," I tend to think of it as a configuration clusterf**k.

      And BTW oracle is a proper relational DBMS which should be able to cough up such information as a schema, and data files on demand

      So why didn't they map the new system to the old and plan an ETL phase to do a baseline population of the "new" system?

    5. captain veg Silver badge

      Interesting mix

      Sounds to me like something cobbled together out of Excel macros.

      -A.

    6. Steve Channell

      25 years ago that was not unreasonable

      VB + office for the front end was better than Java Swing

      COM+ server + vb.net was better than J2EE

      Oracle was the leading database

      Oracle Forms was already an old technology, but fine for all those reference-data table maintenance

    7. Pete Sdev
      Coffee/keyboard

      I threw up in my mouth a little when I read what the "stack" was...

  4. TRT Silver badge

    Who let the inmates run the asylum?

    1. Excused Boots Silver badge

      Alas, I think ultimately that’ll be the electorate. Not that they really had much of a choice!

  5. andy gibson

    riots

    The Southport stabbings kicked off the riots and the thugs attacking hotels in 2024

    Although there were a couple of incidents prior to this - protests at a hotel in Standish, Lancashire in September 2021:

    https://www.wigantoday.net/news/mp-calls-for-wigan-hotel-to-stop-housing-asylum-seekers-after-incident-involving-schoolgirl-3391661

    and then in March 2023 in Knowsley after claims "a man made inappropriate advances towards a teenage girl"

    https://news.sky.com/story/knowsley-asylum-seekers-attacked-outside-merseyside-hotel-where-anti-migrant-protests-erupted-12835247

    1. Tron Silver badge

      Re: riots

      Not helped by local news media identifying hotels that were being used. I don't think they are allowed to identify women's refuges for obvious reasons, but saw no reason not to paint a target on hotels, their staff and those in them.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: riots

        The hotels are quite obvious. There is no need for any identification in the media.

  6. TRT Silver badge

    "A report from the Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA), a joint body of HM Treasury and the Cabinet Office, said in January 2025 that the tech migration has not taken place, according to data from March 2024."

    I see what you did there... after all, they did promise to reduce migration.

  7. Lazlo Woodbine Silver badge

    The problem here is there's no mention of AI, surely that's all that's need to fix the asylum system...

    1. Excused Boots Silver badge

      "The problem here is there's no mention of AI, surely that's all that's need to fix the asylum system..."

      AI? Rubbish, blockchain surely?

      Or was that last year’s buzzword de jour? It’s so hard to keep up with the latest (pointless and meaningless) fad.

      Cynical, moi? Absolutely not!

      1. LybsterRoy Silver badge

        -- AI? Rubbish, blockchain surely? --

        Possibly but why do you want to chain up asylum seekers?

  8. ChrisElvidge Silver badge

    Isn't it about time the asylum system was removed from the purview of the Home Office?

    It seems to me they (HO) cock up anything the get their hand on.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      It's nearly 50 years since the HO was described as "not fit for purpose". Nthing much seems to have changed.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        The Department of Identification Of Not Fit For Purpose Governmental Departments was not fit for purpose.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          My typing wasn't fit for purpose either. It should have been 20.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Your typing may not have been fit for purpose... but was it incorrect?

    2. Tron Silver badge

      Now be fair. It's not just the Home Office. All departments of governments are perfectly capable of cocking up anything within their remit.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        AFAICS the HO is one of two who are particularly outstanding in that field. HOCRE was OK in my day but their chief talent seems to have been house-training Home Secs, John Reid having been an exception.

  9. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "would not be realized until the legacy Casework Information Database (CID) is decommissioned."

    And what would happen if somebody went it to switch the servers off right now? Screams of people not being able to do the work. It's not the decommissioning that's the problem, it's the failure to replace it. But labelling it as (implied) IT's failure to decommission the system is a handy way to shift blame.

  10. cschneid

    The solution, obviously, is...

    AI-augmented private sector consultants vibe-coding a cloud-native solution.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Joke

      AI-augmented private sector consultants vibe-coding a cloud-native solution.

      House!

      1. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: AI-augmented private sector consultants vibe-coding a cloud-native solution.

        Nuh-uh, look in the lower right corner of your bingo card, you haven't marked off the word "blockchain" yet!

        1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Happy

          You're right

          Ba**tard.

        2. anothercynic Silver badge

          Re: AI-augmented private sector consultants vibe-coding a cloud-native solution.

          Blockchain or 'decentralised ledgering'? ;-)

  11. user555

    Or ...

    The old system will not be shut down until the full benefit of replacement has been realised.

    1. Paul Herber Silver badge

      Re: Or ...

      The two systems should be run in parallel for at least 25 years.

      1. Excused Boots Silver badge

        Re: Or ...

        25 years? What sort of radical are you? Not sure they have phased out the quill pen on velum system yet!

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    CID is now gone

    I've heard on the grapevine that CID is no more, that it's deader than a dead parrot. It has ceased to be.

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