UK's biggest mobile operator starts 3G switchoff, hopes it won't catch out April fools

UK telco Virgin Media O2 (VMO2) is preparing to retire its 3G services, and is set to start with the city of Durham in northeast England this April. The operator says it wants to remind Durham residents that its 3G switch off program, announced earlier this year, will begin in the city on April 2 as part of a wider upgrade …

[Anonymous Coward]

Smallest Mobile Network post Vodafone-Three Merger not largest!

Largest? Smallest now is closer...

EE quote 25 million subscribers on their website? - https://ee.co.uk/our-company/about-us but you've used a figure from a random person on a forum from 2022?

The Vodafone - Three merger has been approved so that is 17.5M and 9.9M or a new company of 27.4M.

So how is VMO2 the largest?

[IGotOut]

Re: Smallest Mobile Network post Vodafone-Three Merger not largest!

According to VMO2 they are way ahead with 45million

Remember, this covers O2, ex Virgin Mobile, Giff Gaff, Tesco and Sky,

https://news.virginmediao2.co.uk/2024-financial-results/q2/

[notyetanotherid]

Re: Smallest Mobile Network post Vodafone-Three Merger not largest!

It must be right, cos it says so on Wikipedia...

[BadRobotics]

I thought I read that older Smart meters used 3G, how does thsi affect them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most installed before late last year in the southern DCC region do. https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/do-smart-meters-use-3g/

Region split is roughly a line from Hull to Liverpool. Which for me means though I am in Yorkshire I'm in the southern region for smart meters.

This is one of the reasons VMO2 are starting in the north with the 3G switch off, so they don't hit the meters yet. If I recall the 2G/3G is on O2 but the 4G that is now being rolled out is Vodafone. The northern region uses long distance radio which seems to have a lot of issues.

[Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese]

The northern region uses long distance radio which seems to have a lot of issues.

My house got smartmeter-fied last year - from talking to the engineer, I understand that a key issue is that the radio distance isn't particularly long.

The mast is only about 200m from my house, but as the meter is on the side of the house facing away from the mast and the house has some fairly thick stone walls for the signal to get through, reception is a bit marginal.

[Richard 12]

You're too close

The thing about long-distance radio comms is that it assumes long distances.

When the range is short, it often doesn't work because things like the diffraction etc have barely any effect.

If you moved your house a km further away it'd probably be fine.

Not that this helps in any way.

[ARGO]

According to the people who should know, older smart meters are dual mode 2G-3G, so they will drop back to using 2G:

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/our-smart-network/do-smart-meters-use-3g/

(That's in the southern half of the country - in the north they don't use cellular)

[that one in the corner]

> in the north they don't use cellular

Too modern for us, cannae lad; if dipole is small enough to into t'attic, let alone in't coalhole, then we'll be having none of it.

[Dabooka]

What differnece does it make?

Mine has never worked properly anyway

[UnknownUnknown]

For the life of me I never understood why SmartMeters never had the option of connect via WiFi??

It seems a grotesquely obvious miss, and would have avoided much of this SMETS 1/2 bollocks, and changing from your original supplier roulette.

[Lee D]

Because it then becomes the householder's problem every time they change router (e.g. a rented flat) to call someone up to change it all over AGAIN, and it also means giving your electricity provider your wifi credentials (I mean, we'd use a guest or isolated SSID, but most people won't!) and connectivity for free in perpetuity.

Not only that, what happens when you upgrade to shiny new 802.11zzzzz / Wifi 27 which is 8GHz only, and the smart meter isn't compatible? Exactly the same problem.

[UnknownUnknown]

Fairly low rent problems compared to you have a SMETS1 meter - upgraded or not - we can’t/won’t support you and you need to submit manual readings. Get to the back of the queue for a SMETs 2 swap.

[Richard 12]

Ye might get a SMETS2 by the time they've moved on to SMETS3, and the battery in your new meter is DOA.

[Andy The Hat]

Great news ...

Nice to know I'm in the 1% who can't get 4G indoors ...

Also nice to know that as someone who has a rolling PAYG SIM with Tescos with about £20 per year credit, I've been offered a expiring monthly contract as "PAYG is not yet available on 4G". Good to know because I will be able to pay monthy for a service I will never completely use and already know I can't use at home ...

I don't want smart I just want emergency phone and text ... and I don't want to swap to one of the dirt cheap tariffs that are 3g based because that would be stupid ...

[Steve Davies 3]

Re: dirt cheap tariffs

3g based?

Ok but my GiffGaff gives me 4g and 5g services. 3g is a fallback and I think I have seen it once in the past year when I was in a rural part of the Norfolk Broads.

Tesco's is not IMHO, the best or the cheapest MNVO out there. Why not give one of the others a chance for a month? It will cost you what? The cost of a couple of overpriced coffee's at Starbucks.

[Chloe Cresswell]

EE

I had a letter from EE last week because of our 2 G devices which according to them we "need to upgrade to atleast 4G".

None of our devices using 2G can't use 4G.

The reason they are on 2G is that is the only EE signal they can get.

So to paraphrase the letter "you don't need to upgrade your devices, it's just our network is shit where you are"

[ecofeco]

So what about the cars?

Many older cars use 3G for their hands free phone and nav systems. I guess the owners are borked?

Anyone have info on this? I see a lot of speculation but no actual facts, beyond the general, 3G ends, some cars borked.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So what about the cars?

Do you still pay a subscription for a carphone (remember those?) or have I got the wrong end of the stick here....?

As far as I'm aware, most people use hands free calling that uses their own phone to make the call, even if it uses a microphone and speakers built into the car.

[SomeRandom1]

Re: So what about the cars?

Handsfree uses the mobile SIM/network. The car connected services use an E-SIM in the car which is often multi-carrier compatible. But my understanding is they're all 3G. I expect to migrate to 4G will require replacement of the in-car modem which will likely take a main stealer 6 hours @ at least £150 per hour, chargeable to the customer of course

[Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese]

Re: So what about the cars?

Last few cars I've owned have had their own SIM and associated gubbins, which is used for over-the-air updates to the car's own software, real-time traffic info for the satnav, internet radio for the entertainment system, etc. *

My own phone connects to the car for making phone calls (using my phone and its own SIM) but all the in-car stuff is via the car's own SIM

* all quite impressive when I stop and think about the time I thought my car was a technological marvel for having an automatic choke rather than a manual one.

[43300]

Re: So what about the cars?

Impressive, or dystopian? Is seems that every new car is now fitted with in-vehicle data collection which gets sent to the manufacturer.

[UnknownUnknown]

Re: So what about the cars?

It’s sucks to be you time. Same as people with abandoned technology from old Tom Tom Sat Nav’s through to abandoned (but unable to disable) old decrepit SmartTV platforms.

[John Sager]

Where's the 5G?

Voda switched theirs off over a year ago and still I get E for Eff Off! when I'm anywhere outside a conurbation. You would think they could do more than the apparently sluggardly pace of the buildout. Perhaps the plan is to replace all the 4G in the cities first & then redeploy the 4G kit in the sticks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just so long as they don't make a complete and utter flustercuck out of it like the Australian regulator managed.

It was decreed that, if a subscribers phone would not default to 4g VoLTE for all emergency calls, it would be banished from the network.

Many, many users now have to buy new phones. Some networks are offering substantial discounts but hey, ya gotta sign up to a contact and the lowest of the low PAYG users have to sign up to a mid band subscription at least.

I don't THINK foreign users are affected, so long as they're on their foreign network. If you get a local SIM and try to use that, Australia's new emergency regime is different to almost all other countries and you'll be blocked

Lovely . Really lovely.

[john.jones.name]

YEAH NAH

actually ACMA did a awesome job

the telco's all 3.... did what ever they could to delay and not upgrade...

Australia has the same emergency service as MODERN european WITHOUT anything legacy... what does that mean ? 100%, (consider how hard it is to get 100% of anything) of the phones will when they phone 000 / 112 / 911 / 999 actually send a SMS (after 3 seconds) of their GPS fix and all the towers will triangulate as well to give the emergency services the best possible chance

fall down in a creek and your watch detects a fall it will give them the best chance of saving you

get bitten by a snake and phone for help they dont need to ask for directions

go the wrong way down the highway and phone for help... they dont need a translator to find you

FAARRK how many lives saved and your worrying about being forced to buy a phone that is not offshore model and not supported anymore vs the amount of money spent saving people spent by the tax payers

Visitors who turn up need a phone that works and need a modern version to get service and make calls so its one rule for all

ironically emergency is still supported for legacy bands for some time they just don't say that...

Australia is living in the future with regards bands allocation and LTE and 5G NSA / SA announced on their networks and we should be proud to save actual lives...

[ARGO]

It does affect foreign users roaming into Australia, because they have to be able to connect to the local network to get service (even if it's routed to the home network) and emergency calls are always routed locally anyway (no point calling for an ambulance in Oz and being put through to the London ambulance service).

Should also note that what Australia regards as an acceptable phone is not always the same as a phone that works for VoLTE in the UK. Some brands that are sold in the UK are not available down under, so the networks haven't validated them.

[PRR]

> Known vulnerable customers were contacted with an offer of a 4G-ready device free of charge,

Long long ago I had a cheap feature phone (toy-camera quality photos) and I switched to a mid-line feature phone via StraightTalk. After a few months they sent a letter (in postal mail!) saying I'd have to get a new phone because of some G-thing (2G was being phased out) and they had one for me FREE if I wanted. Oh boy? I checked 'yes' and sent the card back. It was almost a year coming, and it was *CHEAPER* than the cheapfone I had just abandoned. Worse pictures, worse UI, worse sound quality. AND I discovered I could buy it on the open market for 1/5th what I'd just paid them for the mid-line phone. Obviously they had been playing the market to do their best deal on distressed goods just before the network went down.

I moved to a higher mid-line 3G TracFone Android phone and plan, rode that much of a decade. Then their customer database lost me, I could only pay for the plan as anonymous deposit to the phone number. When I got a newer phone (and TracFone was spiffing for a sale) it became impossible, so Cricket Wireless.

[Anonymous Coward]

Zero G

I remember the days when few people had landlines and there was only 1 phone box in the town.

How did we cope?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Zero G

Went darn t' pit and died there, after spending most of our wages on beer at the working men's clubs.

Leaving a widow and a few hundred kids, all sold off for medical research.

So no real change.