back to article Microsoft wouldn't look at a bug report without a video. Researcher maliciously complied

A vulnerability analyst and prominent member of the infosec industry has blasted Microsoft for refusing to look at a bug report unless he submitted a video alongside a written explanation. Senior principal vulnerability analyst Will Dormann said last week he contacted Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC) with a clear …

  1. Mentat74
    Trollface

    May I recommend...

    Putting the video up on TikTok too ?

    See how fast those a$$holes at MS will react to it then...

    1. ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: May I recommend...

      Can you dance the PoC?

      ->

      this coat is used for dancing,

      and that is what I'll do,

      I'm gonna dance all over you

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: May I recommend...

        Upvoted but the last line doesn't scan. Go back & listen to the song again.

    2. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: May I recommend...

      You beat me to it with your most obvious must-be-first comment. I planned to say "youtube", public video, full description science-professor-style, with all links directly to the exploit "as requested by the Microsoft Security Response Center employees X and Y, as you can read here in their responses."

      1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: May I recommend...

        Men without clues!

        You'll post a video if we ask you

        We can leave your screenshots behind

        'Cause your video has dance and if it has dance,

        Well you'll have no uploads to mine.

    3. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Just confirms what we all know

      Microsoft needed the video because their people are functionally illiterate.

      1. Major N
        Coat

        Re: Just confirms what we all know

        are they also procedurally illiterate?

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Just confirms what we all know

          And objectively illiterate.

          1. MyffyW Silver badge
            Black Helicopters

            Re: Just confirms what we all know

            Illiterate .... I don't know, that sounds awfully like illuminati to me

            [goes back to reading her copy of Catcher in the Rye]

      2. david 12 Silver badge

        Re: Just confirms what we all know

        I am not functionally illiterate. The written text is still my preferred method of communication. And yet, I have sometimes been significantly helped by a stupid little video demonstrating the written instructions.

        1. david 12 Silver badge

          Re: Just confirms what we all know

          --And as an instructor and manager, "confirming what we all know" is part of what we do. As any parent (should know):

          "Tell them what you are going to tell them. Tell them. Tell them what you told them."

    4. MyffyW Silver badge

      Could you describe the ruckus, sir?

      Or alternatively...

      "Screws fall out all the time, the world is an imperfect place."

      1. theblackhand

        Re: Could you describe the ruckus, sir?

        The one where the front fell off?

        Ref for your Tuesday viewing pleasure

        https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

    5. HMcG

      Re: May I recommend...

      15 minutes of video with less than a minute’s worth of actually useful content is more of a YouTube thing.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    clear evidence that the MSRC handler didn't bother actually reading what I submitted

    That's pretty much par for the course for any support request to Microsoft. They skim-read the comment, pick out a few isolated words, and then copy&paste an irrelevant response asking you to try all the obvious things that you've already done. Then they ask you to upvote them for being helpful.

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      And an AI can't do that?

      1. DJO Silver badge

        Don't be silly, an "AI" might accidentally give a helpful, useful and even relevant reply.

        1. Someone Else Silver badge

          ...or actually admit that there may indeed be a bug there!

        2. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge
          Facepalm

          I did ask today to Copilot what was the minimum version of MS Edge required to run the Copilot application inside the browser (a few users complained that they got a popup asking to update their browser to be able to run Clippy), and it told me that the current version was 112...

      2. sev.monster Silver badge

        I think at this point I wouldn't mind the outsourced support to be further outsourced to an AI bot. Honestly, just train it on the scripts you give the support team, and give it access to the internal knowledgebase. At least you'll get quick, prompt replies, even if you'll also get about the same percent chance of getting your issue solved.

        1. veti Silver badge

          You think an AI can't be trained to say "I can't assess this because you didn't include a video"?

          Indeed, do you have any reason to believe this hasn't already happened?

        2. Mike007 Silver badge

          I once submitted a support ticket of "I know how to do this in outlook for windows, I know how to do this on OWA, I know how to do this in the old outlook for Mac, but I can not find the option in the new outlook for Mac". I got a call from someone who asked me to share my screen with him, followed by a very confused "umm, there is no ribbon?". In other words he had never as much as seen a screenshot of the program before, and was planning on giving me the windows instructions.

          An AI with access to their knowledge base would presumably have responded to the initial ticket with the information that the functionality does not exist in the new outlook for Mac.

          An AI WITHOUT access to their knowledge base would have figured out from my ticket that the windows instructions weren't going to bloody well work...

    2. vogon00

      People have obviously forgotten how to read. If it isn't a video on YouTube or tiktoc it can't be understood...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        What if you post a video with scrolling text?

        Just curious :)

        1. ThomH Silver badge

          Let's all submit our bug reports as videos of Amiga-style demo scrollers, along with the obligatory sine-wavey starfield backgrounds.

          1. stiine Silver badge
            Happy

            No, use the red and white checkerboard bouncing ball.

            1. David 132 Silver badge
              Happy

              “Since KB10089589 was installed in the March Patch Tuesday, my Windows 11 desktop keeps crashing to a black screen with a flashing red box saying ‘Guru Meditation’…”

        2. Apocalypso - a cheery end to the world
          Happy

          > What if you post a video with scrolling text?

          With music by John Williams, of course.

          [Icon: Vader's "I'm off to a music festival for the weekend" mask]

        3. Mrs Spartacus

          That was my first thought. Reply to their acting-dumb response by seeing their dumbness and raising a dollop of even dumber. Simply film yourself typing out the email to them....

      2. David Austin

        I'm not too upset with people that prefer to follow along with video tutorials or troubleshooting, but I definitely prefer a written article I can follow and digest at my own speed; The fact that since "Pivot to Video" was a thing, that's the first thing search engines throw up now is a first world annoyance I have to put up with.

        1. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

          Also use bookmarks and take notes in the margins.

      3. Fred Daggy
        Pint

        FFS

        ... and the submitter can't monetise the views.

      4. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge
        Flame

        "People have obviously forgotten how to read."

        Fahrenheit 451

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Alien

          Blakes 7

          Perhaps this bug has afflicted Microsoft.

          BELLFRIAR Everyone who's been into deep space has had the Terran ague, or the three-day sweats as it's commonly known as. It's a sort of a mild infection, it slightly alters the body's nucleic structure, it seems to be a metabolic reaction to space travel. Well this new virus, Paratype 926, attacks those altered cells and acts as a catalyst, they burst and, well the effects are literally a series of explosions that race through the body's neural cell structure. The virus is easily cultured in human tissue or in nucleic acid solution. Now, here is the formula for the antiserum...

          BLAKE [On Liberator] Dr. Bellfriar, are you saying that this virus is only effective against human beings who've been in deep space?

          BELLFRIAR [In Laboratory] Precisely. It fits your theory. But I don't think that the virus was designed to destroy man, merely to confine him to his own planet. Now here is the formula.

          BLAKE Go ahead.

          BELLFRIAR H-N, H-N-O ... oh, My God!

          BLAKE Dr. Bellfriar! Dr. Bellfriar!!

          BELLFRIAR I've forgotten how to read. [looks at his hands, covered in blisters. He groans and covers his face]

    3. localzuk

      Don't forget that they usually then say that it isn't something they can deal with, as the request has come through to $RandomDepartment unrelated to where you reported it, only for them to then pass it to a different, wrong, department. Repeat at least 3 times, until it circles back round to the original department. Each transfer taking 2 days to get a response from. Then eventually them saying it isn't a problem, its intended, and closing it without actually helping you.

    4. David Austin

      "Can you run sfc /scannow, please?"

    5. David 132 Silver badge

      I’m honestly only surprised they didn’t ask him to reboot and run sfc /scannow - that seems to be the unthinking copy-paste response to every single ticket raised on the Microsoft “support” forums.

      Edit: oh, curse the way comments are threaded on the Reg. I finally, 5 minutes after posting this, read down the page to reach the point where it had appeared… only to see that the similarly-named David Austin, who is clearly smarter, faster, nicer-smelling and more attractive to prospective partners than I, beat me to it by a piffling 5 hours. Give him your upvote. I deserve nothing.

    6. Andrew Scott Bronze badge

      If you go to a vendor site for help with a problem they almost all have videos that they urge you to watch. A few years ago i set up a new desktop computer. the monitor screen was defective out of the box with a multi color line across the screen. i sent a picture of the problem to the help desk and they wanted to do a remote desktop to "see" the problem. Said "ok" and got the report back that they couldn't see any problems!

  3. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Coat

    What a shame if Microsoft get pwned from a trogen delivered via a video submitted using this route.

    1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
      Headmaster

      "trogen"

      *eyetwitch*

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        OP here. Yes, I should have checked earlier. It was too late when I came back to it

        1. David 132 Silver badge
          Happy

          That darn Trogen Hawes, eh?

          1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

            An orse, an orse, my kingdom for an orse.

            As Father Jack would say

            Orse, feck girls

          2. arachnoid2

            Its the Hawk Tuah Trojan Shirley..........

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      I wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

    3. tiggity Silver badge

      I could get this bird to peck the enter button to send a nasty to MS

      Would that count as being pwned by a Trogon?

      https://ebird.org/species/bkttro2

  4. sev.monster Silver badge

    This reeks of Microsoft 365 Support Syndrome where, no matter how absolutely fucking crystal clearly I made the issue in the initial description, the technician will ALWAYS ask for a remote session, will ALWAYS ask for a phone call even though I specified I prefer email, and will ALWAYS be nigh fucking unintelligable when they do get on the phone. And when we go through the screen sharing merry-go-round and I show them exactly what the screenshots showed and do the exact same troubleshooting and debugging steps I ALREADY TOLD YOU I DID, you are still fucking surprised it doesn't work and have to "escalate the issue" because there's nothing after step four in your stupid fucking internal guide and the Microsoft docs doesn't have an answer for you to quote because I already looked just like I told you.

    I'm sorry can you tell I'm fed up. Especially considering this support costs thousands of dollars.

    Honestly I just started putting single sentences in my tickets because it's about as effective. I know I will be forced regardless to slowly re-explain my case to some bored dude from Zimbabwe that doesn't care I exist so why should I even bother.

    1. SVD_NL Silver badge

      "Especially considering this support costs thousands of dollars."

      Wait, what? That sounds exactly like my experience, difference being i pay fuck all for support. That's egregious.

      Let me guess, this call always takes place within the SLA timeframe, but the can they kicked down the road takes a while to be picked up?

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        It depends on your licensing model, which is itself an actual nightmare. I work in education and the choices they give you are all 3 letter acronyms and have changed completely at least four times in the past maybe 10 years, requiring new contract negotiations, new pricing, etc. Not to mention you have to wait for your reseller to even begin to understand the licensing changes too, and pray their license manager actually knows what they're doing and doesn't screw something up. This is aside of course Microsoft deprecating and now removing VLSC for end users, replacing it with the ugly and until very recently severely less functional Microsoft Admin licensing tab.

        With the latest education model, I believe support is not bundled in to the subscription pricing and you have to pay for it. But unlike at $job[-2] I haven't seen the contract and can only regurgitate the rumors around the office, so take that with a grain of salt. I don't even know what they're calling it anymore, it used to be MSCA, then it became OVS+SA/OVS-ES, then EES, and then I think we moved to CASA+EES or something??? and who knows what it is now with the introduction of 365 into everything. Last I did any license management was before the Office 365 rebranding so I'm a bit out of date.

        And yes, we have a SLA for initial contact only. Anything after that is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Microsoft?

          If they're so bad, why stay with Microsoft as a supplier? Move to a linux-based system.

          1. sev.monster Silver badge

            Re: Microsoft?

            Ha, you're funny.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: Microsoft?

              And the reason so many people give for not doing is that manglement insists on having support. You do realise, don't you, that there are a number of people who will sell Linux and other FOSS support services. The reason they continue to trade is that they give customer satisfaction. If they didn't they'd be out of business because they don't have a monopoly to prop them up.

              You think that the suggestion was funny? Then why is this thread full of people pointing to Microsoft support and not quite managing to laugh?

              1. sev.monster Silver badge

                Re: Microsoft?

                You do realize, don't you, that I made no claims to anything and your entire post is assumption? That my post was sardonic in nature? Hinting at a deeper meaning? One that you yourself are sure to understand? That simply "not using Microsoft/Windows" is harder than it sounds, often because of said manglement?

                Of course a large swathe of people (myself included) would switch off Microsoft immediately given the opportunity. But I, a grunt, do not have the authority to make such an opportunity, our students/staff/faculty do not know about/want to know Linux for workstation use, we are very embedded in Azure, we are financially constrained to continue on the path we're on, and overall there's a lot of pain that Microsoft is removing from our shoulders—even if they also generate a lot themselves.

                Fact of the matter is, Microsoft owns the industry, and people want them. Maybe not many of us in technical positions, but certainly non-technical users, and definitely vendors that only provide software for Windows. Vendors of which our org is forced to use, with no alternative other than building everything ourselves. Which again, we are unable to stomach financially.

                And for the record, my org runs Red Hat/Oracle where we can, and yes we do have support. Would love more of that.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Microsoft?

                  > my org runs Red Hat/Oracle where we can

                  Then, instead of opting for the worst possible Windows solution, you've opted for the worst possible Linux solution?

                  Ouch.

                  1. sev.monster Silver badge

                    Re: Microsoft?

                    Linux is Linux, I can make it do what I want with little trouble. Can't say the same about Windows Server. Your choice of distro is really up to personal preference and what vendorware you need to run, honestly.

                    I would rate Ubuntu worse on a technical level if you really want to split hairs. RHEL wouldn't be my first choice either honestly, but it's well-known and well-supported in the industry. And, again, it works.

                2. b0hem1us

                  Re: Microsoft?

                  Honestly, this reads like the whole org he works for reeks and personally I would vote with my feet.

                  1. sev.monster Silver badge

                    Re: Microsoft?

                    You haven't worked in many places, then. Use those toes to count how many businesses within 10km of you use Microsoft products.

                    Congratulations if you've found employ at a place that doesn't, and that you had the courage/time/money/privilege to go find one in the first place. Not all of us are so lucky/financially stable.

          2. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

            Re: Microsoft?

            I'd hope you would be sufficiently real-world-aware of the various (mostly-bad) reasons why many businesses, governmental units, and institutions are using, and will continue to use, Microsoft Windows.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: Microsoft?

              Indeed. One of the prominent ones is the requirement for support.

              1. sev.monster Silver badge

                Re: Microsoft?

                No. It's because they provide solutions to problems. Maybe not well, and maybe with a whole laundry list of caveats, gotchas, asterisks, and daggers... But if you need something done, and you don't have the manpower, capital, or time, and industry leader Microsoft is willing to sign the devil's contract with you, while also providing "support"...

                And it would be different if you were a new org, with the option of starting fresh. OpenLDAP instead of AD, authentik instead of Entra ID, Linux instead of Windows, there are plenty of options. But for an existing org, with decades upon decades of reliance on Microsoft, the number one deciding factor is "we are already a Microsoft shop".

                Other reasons include compliance with governmental regulations making rolling your own a non-starter for a myriad of reasons, lack of talent in the industry with what is sure to be a very specialized and custom solution when you step out of (popular vendor here)-land, software and hardware vendors you may have no (financial) choice but to use not supporting anything but Windows... Desiring a support contract is but one item on a laundry list of potential questions an org has to answer to make their business work.

                1. ecofeco Silver badge

                  Re: Microsoft?

                  No. It's because they provide solutions to problems.

                  Oh wait. You're serious?!

                  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                  1. sev.monster Silver badge

                    Re: Microsoft?

                    Yes, I am.

                    Put aside your blind hatred (yeah it's hard for me to as well) and hazard an unbiased guess at how many organizations rely on the big names, like AD for example. We all know AD sucks in uncountable ways, but not only can it do everything you need it to out of the box, it has decades of prior art behind it, and is largely pretty stable. Setting up a new domain controller is dead simple, and everything is a clicky GUI with clear descriptions. It doesn't require particularly special technical knowledge.

                    Would I prefer OpenLDAP, UCS, or hell even 389 (which I used to admin)? Hell yes I would. More control and freedom in implementation, less licensing costs, can run it on Linux, plaintext configs (well sometimes, slapd has OLC...). But what those solutions provide in poweruser goodness they lack in ease of use for the layperson.

                    AD/Entra ID, PeopleSoft, etc. Work in the industry for a little bit and you end up constantly seeing the usual names slinking around. Especially in education, which is my career. Basically every university uses AD on Windows Server, man. And it's not because it all universally sucks.

                    1. Anonymous Coward
                      Anonymous Coward

                      Re: Microsoft?

                      > but not only can it do everything you need it to out of the box

                      I'm not the original source of laughter, but this gave me a strong chuckle. :-)

                      Mostly it *constrains* you so hard you can't do anything that AD can't do "out of the box" -- and if you do need to do something that isn't in that box, you're typically SOL.

                      Example: It can't provide a token to a client authenticating them with credentials/services -- think JWT's. Oh, you meant "Active Directory can do everything that Active Directory can do, out of the box"? but that would be a straw-man argument. (Sure, AD can provide a kerberos identity token, but that's really not the same thing. JWT is more about signing grants, and you take that (token + data) with you, not [just] proving you are whom you are. AD can not do this. Other software might be able to make something happen, but AD can not do anything like this.)

                      Typically bugs, too, you're forced to find your own work-around. Usually they're documented online, but sometimes you're doing something kinda uncommon. Other times the solution is to get a wrapper for it that hopefully might be able to do what you need. (RADIUS -- not a bug, a wrapper for a need.) If you call up MS Support with a bug, and there is *any identified work-around*, then that bug is now a feature (that may change) and the proper way to do it is the work-around. Problem solution: there is no problem. That'll be $500. If your problem isn't fixed, then approach the problem with other tools and methods. Problem solution: there is no problem.

                      Then things change out from under your feet. Today's AD can't serve yester-year's servers, and while today's clients can *probably* authenticate to yester-year's AD (within reason of encryption schemes), it's mostly about a compatibility matrix. If you're not within it, then again, it's up to you to make things write. AD won't.

                      1. sev.monster Silver badge

                        Re: Microsoft?

                        AD is primarily a real user identity service—it existed long before JWTs were floating along the neurons in its creator's brain... And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere already made that. Or that somewhere in the Microsoft tech stack, your desired feature already exists in some form or another.

                        No, I don't mean "Active Directory can do everything that Active Directory can do", and I was only using that as an example. The realm of built-in software you can provision on a fresh Windows Server device is massive, and AD is only one part of it. If you're a startup that needs basic identity management, install Windows server, tick a box, go through the wizard, and you're done. It's incredibly simple to get started, you can add hundreds of thousands of users with great performance, you have a slew of third party software at your disposal to bolt on to it, and it's basically LDAP under the hood so anything that speaks LDAP can also (generally) speak to AD.

                        Need certs? Tick the box that turns your server into a certificate authority, use a web-based interface to generate and dispense certs.

                        Need web server? IIS.

                        Etc etc.

                        Are each of these products best in class? Absolutely not. Once you have to administrate them for a while you'll find plenty of headaches. Everything you said is correct.

                        My point is the barrier to entry is very, very low, and the ecosystem is as wide as it is deep.

                        Think of it like buying into Apple. You don't just get an iThing for its iFeature, you get it because it gets you access to all the other iFeatures that Apple gives you, like Air Drop, iCloud, the built-in VPN thing, using your iPad as a secondary monitor wirelessly. All those features are a click away and require absolutely zero futzing around to use. That's why people are attracted to Microsoft.

                        (Even if after purchase you find out that, actually, there's a lot of futzing around to be had... that's neither here nor there though.)

                        Yes, AD and the rest don't do everything. I didn't insinuate that. But for the needs of the vast majority of companies, which is the implied demographic behind those that "need it", it's sufficient. None of it is nowhere near the best at what it does and there are plenty of better options. But you get a lot for the ecosystem you jump into.

                  2. I could be a dog really Silver badge

                    Re: Microsoft?

                    Yes.

                    We know it's a steaming pile of "stuff", some written in house, some bought in and enshittified, held together with digital gaffa tape and covered with a good layer of lipstick. But, from a business PoV they have this whole stack - you sign one direct debit with MS and you get all this pile of stuff and it all sort-of works together. Never mind that none of the components might be the best available in isolation - the reality is that nobody has an alternative offering that offers a sort-of turnkey package with so much that sort-of works together.

                    Yes, there are individual components that are better. But thanks to MS's long game and shrewd (and even illegal as determined by courts) actions, they'd spent the last 2 or 3 decades systematically killing off any viable competition - and we (collectively as a large user base) have allowed that to happen. Some of us were warning about it 2 or 3 decades ago - but business leaders weren't interested in that long game, or just failed to grasp the significance.

                    The reality now is that it would need a large government sized organisation to have the resources to sponsor a project to compete - and unless the USA does something* to make what's gone on in the last couple of months seem like a small blip, there's not going to be the political will to do it. Yes, a private business could sit down and try to build a competing offering - but they'd have an uphill struggle persuading people to switch, while MS would be employing all the usual dirty tricks to break interoperability.

                    * In theory, one person could sign an order and have MS turn off European users. And regardless of any statements MS might make, they would have that ability.

            2. b0hem1us

              Re: Microsoft?

              Why should we waste our wetware bandwidth being aware of "mostly bad reasons"? Give me one logical reason? ...wtf

    2. Maximus Decimus Meridius

      Obligatory XKCD

      https://xkcd.com/806/

      1. Bebu sa Ware
        Coat

        Thankyou!

        https://xkcd.com/806/

        Made my day.

        Pretty close to a techie wet dream for Cueball. ;)

      2. FeRDNYC

        I've mentioned this before, but even worse are the new automated, scripted phone-support systems. Not only can they drag you through stupid, tedious troubleshooting steps, explained in plodding, laborious lowest-common-denominator detail, but (to the extent possible) they're able to check whether you're following their directions. And if there's any sign you are not, you are in for a world of hurt.

        Here's an example: The last few times I've had to call my cable company for support, their first line of defense is now a "TellMe"-style automated "support tech" that walks you through the process of restarting your cable modem. (I know, my eyes practically rolled out of my head, too.) Here's how that should go:

        • You drill down into their ponderous phone tree, indicating that you have a problem with your internet service, you can't get online, etc. etc. until you finally convince the system that it appears to be a connectivity problem with the modem itself.
        • The nice artificial lady's synthesized voice tells you to unplug your modem.
        • You unplug your modem.
        • You say or press whatever you were told to confirm that you've done so.
        • "She" makes you wait 60 seconds, while Things Happen behind-the-scenes.
        • "She" tells you to plug it back in.
        • You plug in your modem.
        • You say or press whatever you were told to confirm that you've done so.
        • "She" makes you wait another 60 seconds for bootup.
        • After the time passes, "she" tries to contact your modem over the broadband network.
        • Whether or not that fails, because you're still not able to get online, you finally get routed to a living support tech.

        Now, that's the ideal scenario. But here's how it can go:

        • You drill down into their ponderous phone tree, indicating that you have a problem with your internet service, you can't get online, etc. etc. until you finally convince the system that it appears to be a connectivity problem with the modem itself.
        • The nice artificial lady's synthesized voice tells you to unplug your modem.
        • You don't unplug your modem. You know you JUST DID THAT right before calling, and it didn't make a damn bit of difference, so why go through it again?
        • You lie and say or press whatever you were told to confirm that you've done so.
        • "She" makes you wait 60 seconds, while Things Happen behind-the-scenes.
        • The Thing Happening behind the scenes turn out to have included their system trying to reach your modem, while you said it was unplugged. Their system therefore succeeds in contacting the device. This is where your day gets much worse.
        • "She" comes back at you with, "Hmmmm. Something doesn't seem right..." in that irritating faux-concerned voice that seems to be the default mode of these synth-rep systems.
        • "She" continues with the worst words in any language: "Let's start over!"
        • Go all the way back to step 1!

        At that point I think I just hung up. The line came back to life a few hours later.

      3. DrkShadow

        > Could you please restart your computer

        Well..... no. :-)

        I won't say that. "Sure, give me just a moment..." Usually the time required to find the Windows 95 startup sound is about right for the time required to perform an actual reboot. Play that for them, and they'll be content that you did, in fact, restart your computer.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      This reeks of Microsoft 365 Support Syndrome ...

      There you go.

      Reads more accurately now.

      In another life, eons ago (remember W95?) I had the idea that, costing what it did and being Microsoft, I'd get something useful from the person on the other side of the telephone line when I contacted tech support.

      Guess again ...

      This crap has been going on for decades and we are the only ones to blame.

      Microsoft knows well enough by now that they can get away with this type of crap, act accordingly and ...

      Guess what?.

      They get away with it.

      And it has nothing to do with where the tech support it located.

      It is directly related to who they hire, their training and the wages they pay.

      Or do you really think good tech support is only available in Europe, North America, etc.?

      .

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        On specifically your last point: I do think culture makes the experience. Consider how hard it must be to hire good people, when the vast majority are held to a low standard and yet are still paid, and where leaving one company for another if you are held to a higher standard is easier done than said, because there are hundreds of them. So at that point, why should either the hiring agency or the employee care at all, especially when they keep getting massive amounts of business? This is the problem I have with call center exporters, and it just so happens the majority of them are stationed in countries with cheap labor.

        And to answer the question in particular: No, I don't. But even if I can't get good tech support, I would sure love to be able to at least fully comprehend even one of the myriad of sentences being talked at me. I guess it's my fault for not speaking Punjabi.

        But yes, ultimately, Microsoft is to blame for outsourcing all this and not hiring good people themselves. They surely have enough money to do so, but choose the lowest common denominator instead. And despite the cries of techies everywhere, orgs still keep buying Microsoft garbage and dealing with the problems that inevitably occur.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          "But yes, ultimately, Microsoft is to blame for outsourcing all this and not hiring good people themselves."

          This may seem like victim blaming but the ultimate blame should rest with those who not only continue putting up with it but continue buying from Microsoft and other enshittified suppliers. As long as it's a profitable way of doing business it will continue to happen.

          1. sev.monster Silver badge

            Of course. They wouldn't do it if it didn't remain profitable. Whatever business they lose due to bad support is likely already so unreliant on their products—and as such not a large source of income—that they still end up saving money when factoring in the outsourcing. Meanwhile, companies with no real choice and those with no managerial desire to change continue to use MS products, deal with the heat of hell, and fund the beast. Unfortunately it would take a large shift in the industry to see MS removed from their comfortable seat of power, where they're able to get away with such shoddy service.

    4. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Tables have turned

      "Can I speak to the AI please?"

    5. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Use this style. It helps a lot. They will understand better.

      https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        Trust me, I do. My "talking to support" lexicon has been reduced to about 100 words.

    6. GeekyDee

      "We're sorry you are still having issues,"

      "Can you run sfc /scannow again now, please?"

    7. David 132 Silver badge
      Happy

      …the technician will ALWAYS ask for a remote session, will ALWAYS ask for a phone call even though I specified I prefer email, and will ALWAYS be nigh fucking unintelligible when they do get on the phone…

      I get almost exactly the same experience from Microsoft Support! But with the advantages that 1) they call me out of the blue even if I don’t have a Windows PC, which is really smart of them, and 2) they’re much more diligent about finding problems, even looking at the Windows Event Log and helpfully pointing out the evidence of VIRUS INFECTION from all the Info log entries. Then they courteously and efficiently ask for my credit card and give me the all-clear.

      Who’s the dumb sucker NOW, eh? Eh???

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      yep

      I put in over 100 tickets with MS last year, they helped with maybe 2 or 3 of them. Same shit. not worth opening a ticket. Fake AV companies give better support.

    9. Potemkine! Silver badge
      Flame

      some bored dude from Zimbabwe

      I can't blame that guy who is paid annually less than your daily budget for coffee.

      Exploitation of poverty worldwide is what make C-suite and shareholders richer.

  5. kmorwath

    That's happens...

    ... when tech support is moved to Dumbai.

    1. SVD_NL Silver badge

      Re: That's happens...

      ...when tech support is not properly trained.

      FTFY. First-line tech support is almost universally shit in my experience, it just happens that India is a cheap place to outsource.

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        Re: That's happens...

        Wipro is the scum of the earth and should be removed via exterminatus.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's happens...

      My offshore colleagues appear unable to follow written instructions/descriptions with annotations as appropriate. Their normal responses are "is there a video" or "can we record this"

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        Re: That's happens...

        As someone that has recently taken charge of an exchange student GA, yes. Number one question is "can we record this" along with copious use of ChatGPT.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That's happens...

        How else can they perform this task later without having to remember anything. Congratulations, you've hired a speak-and-spell for $50k/year.

        1. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

          Re: That's happens...

          I like your suggestion, but the 50k €/year is the base fee for the equipment, and 50k € per delivered video, each max 15 minutes since their attention span cannot take more.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: That's happens...

      DumbAI, shirley?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That's happens...

        And don't call me dumb.

  6. Mike 137 Silver badge

    Nasty suspicion

    "Two of them requested video evidence of exploitation (for things that don't even make sense to have a video of[...]), and the third was rejected as not a vulnerability with clear evidence that the MSRC handler didn't bother actually reading what I submitted."

    Could it be that M$ are staffing their 'MSRC' with folks who don't actually have much (or any) actual expertise? So they can follow a video exposition from start to outcome, but with zero understanding of what's actually happening (and for the same reason can't make use of a textual exposition). So it's possibly not so much "didn't bother actually reading" as "couldn't make head or tail of the text". This, if it's the case, exemplifies the burgeoning population of "techies" who can cope with the externals of tech but haven't a clue about what goes on under the hood. They're bringing the technologies to their knees, but they're cheaper to hire than the fully informed.

    1. sev.monster Silver badge

      Re: Nasty suspicion

      I wouldn't be surprised if they're using the same tier 1 support reps as they do for 365 support. That is, they have next to no practical knowledge or understanding, and just follow a script. They are essentially human form validators.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not just MS

    I have an outstanding ticket with a company. I have detailed steps on this, the problem, screen shots and so on. I have even had 3 remote calls, 2 recorded showing the issue and what needs to be fixed.

    Last "resoliution" I had was "you changed xxxx and so it has not applied. Please revert".

    I point out that what they are saying is not the cause, it is not the problem. The fact that underlying critical components are missing and cannot be reinstalled / repaired is the problem...

    they have not probably lost quite a big sale on that

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Not just MS

      Tell the salesman why they've lost the sale. It's the only way things will ever get through to manglement that quality of support matters.

    2. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Not just MS

      At one company I saw an issue where customer created a ticket with description of a problem, screenshots, how to reproduce.

      Problem was as it was investigated, he or she, doctored the screenshots and made up the replication steps.

      That person was Karen like and caused support to escalate to dev team that spent good part of the day investigating it.

      If you could sum hourly rate of all people involved in this, this created substantial damage.

      But nothing really could be done about it.

      Support confronted the person that issue is made up and never heard from them again.

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        Re: Not just MS

        What would even possess you...? Using it as an excuse to show your boss so you don't have to work, or covering their ass after a mistake? I guess??

        1. Ken Shabby Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: Not just MS

          Trick used by the big outsourced consulting firms to blame the product and not their incompetence for missing a deadline.

        2. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

          Re: Not just MS

          This! Exactly this!

          I cannot tell you how many time, and it is almost 99.9999% of the time a woman, that a fake problem was reported to the Service Desk because their manager asked them, "Why haven't you got your work done!?" The issue is always predicated with "The Service Desk is not responding to my problem!" Yet there is no previous ticket regarding this issue.

  8. PCScreenOnly

    File too big

    Occasonally tried to send a report with a video and get told the Video is too big - no matter what I have tried to do to the video / colour settings etc.

    Then get asked to "attach the video" and point I cannot as I am told it is too big, and oh, i cannot send via email as it is..... too big

    1. sev.monster Silver badge

      Re: File too big

      Problem located: You aren't paying for Microsoft OneDrive. Ticket closed.

      1. PCScreenOnly

        Re: File too big

        No always MS in my case,

        Bit I do stress I have lowered the res, the colours and tried to do it as fast as I can, yet the video is still over their "size".

        1. stiine Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: File too big

          change your screen to dark mode and record at 600x400...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: File too big

            > change your screen to dark mode and record at 600x400...

            Better still, 60 x 40 using ascii animation!

  9. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    The result of spending years burying tech help in 10 minute YouTube videos...

    ... is now you need to submit a video for everything.

  10. DJV Silver badge

    They want a video?

    I'd send them this.

    1. stiine Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: They want a video?

      I'm typing this before I watch that video i just clicked on because this El Reg... talk to you again in a minute or so....

      I'm back.

      I'm not sure I get your point...

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        Re: They want a video?

        It's a story of you submitting the bug report, with Microsoft played by Leslie Nielsen.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: They want a video?

      I might be inclined to make the video with a hideously strobing background,

      1. stiine Silver badge

        Re: They want a video?

        I'm not epileptic. I find those extremely funny if they have a good soundtrack, like Napoleon XIV's Split-level head.

  11. 0laf Silver badge

    I for one...

    ..deeply hate this trend to producing guides, manuals and instructions in video format only.

    I can read a lot faster than I can watch a video and text allows me to stop, examine, 'rewind' etc without dealing with the particular UX of whatever 'disruptive designer' has breathed on the video app du jour or the mangled english of the narrator if there is one.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: I for one...

      Plus I can copy and paste useful sections of text, eg into the software environment the video is supposed to be explaining.

      1. sev.monster Silver badge

        Re: I for one...

        Nah, sorry pal, you get screenshots of commands. What, you want to copy the commands? Ha, you're funny.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: I for one...

          Could I send you a BMP buried in a PowerPoint instead?

        2. Bebu sa Ware
          Windows

          Re: I for one...

          you get screenshots of commands. What, you want to copy the commands? Ha, you're funny.

          I was recently surprised on a new android tablet in one app that I could select text from an image and paste it as text. Some sort of OCR I imagine.

          Really quite useful when reading imaged documents (texts) and you want to search (google, bing etc) for a term or phrase.

          Not entirely a lost cause but needless hurdles to jump.

          Surprised MS support doesn't require a video of your writing a manuscript report of your support request. Vellum and goose feather. ;)

          1. FrogsAndChips Silver badge

            Re: I for one...

            MS Powertoys has a 'Text Extractor' utlity that lets you select areas of documents (pictures, copy-protected pdf...), performs OCR and copies the result in the clipboard. Pretty useful when someone sent you a screenshot of 100 30-digit long IDs and you need the actual values.

            1. DJV Silver badge

              Re: MS Powertoy

              Yes, I use it often, though I can't understand how Microsoft managed to let some actually useful software out into the wild. I thought that was against MS company policy!

    2. Bebu sa Ware
      Facepalm

      Re: I for one...

      ..deeply hate this trend to producing guides, manuals and instructions in video format only.

      Much of the material is scripted and presented by non technical people who clearly have very little knowledge about the product they purport to document.

      You are often better off dredging the interwebs for the last available text document for the product as it's often more accurate and relevant. By the time the vendor has reached the point of video only enshittification the product is invariably fossilized internally with only an occasional gratuitous cosmetic makeover of the user interface which really only confuses everyone.

    3. Jou (Mxyzptlk) Silver badge

      Re: I for one...

      I am on the same boat: I cannot think as slow as most of those videos are, brain shuts down in-between. Some are good, but > 90% are not.

      1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: I for one...

        Find some videos actually useful, granted car repairs\maintenance where there's usually a more physical aspect of which way to twist, remove, locate a hidden connector rather than deal with a stealership.

  12. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Wonderful world of Microsoft

    I just updated a laptop to Devuan Excalibre - the testing release, to see how it's going (short answer, fine with daily downpours of updates as might be expected). I realised I didn't have Pinta on there and the options being Flatpak or tarball I downloaded the tarball to compile. It's basically a dotnet app so a prerequisite is dotnet runtime. OK, go to the dotnet download site and install the latest dotnet version which is 9.0. After all the latest is sure to be correct, isn't it? Having found the runtime configure lets me compile. Try to run it and what happens? It will only run against runtime 8.0.

    No wonder the W10 partition on that particular laptop seems to update several versions of dotnet each month. And no wonder the target area for vulnerabilities is so large if an installation has to support so many versions of the same thing.

    1. GeekyDee

      Re: Wonderful world of Microsoft

      I hear you and see you. I think it's why getting My EQ to run in Fedora is such a PITA, it keeps wanting DirectX variants that are just imaginary versions with an irrational version number

  13. Howard Sway Silver badge

    We are unable to make any progress without that

    If Microsoft's security response team are so dumb that they can't read simple text, understand it and then act on it, how can you trust them to be smart enough to do their job?

    Still, yet more shit that the "I couldn't possibly exist without them" crowd choose to put up with rather than bother to make any effort to test that hypothesis.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: We are unable to make any progress without that

      With security expertise like theirs, who needs enemies?!

  14. ecofeco Silver badge
    Holmes

    I hope he learned his lesson

    I hope he learned to just let M$ fail next time.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: I hope he learned his lesson

      We are allowed to make a living eating leftovers from Big Tech's table... if we jump through their hoops first.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: I hope he learned his lesson

        Look at you living large on leftovers. Lucky bastard.

        I'm lucky to see the DUST of crumbs. Most days, just a fading wafting fragrance of crumbs.

        1. collinsl Silver badge

          Re: I hope he learned his lesson

          Fragrance of crumbs? Luxury!

          We had to make our own fragrance of crumbs by filtering the air from the fish factory - we lived in a barrel of rotting herring guts, all 26 of us, in the middle of the factory floor. And when we got home at night our father would chop down a tree using one of us.

  15. Someone Else Silver badge

    Just who do you think you're talking to?

    "I reported three related but different vulnerabilities to Microsoft recently. Two of them requested video evidence of exploitation (for things that don't even make sense to have a video of, thus my malicious compliance example that I posted), and the third was rejected as not a vulnerability with clear evidence that the MSRC handler didn't bother actually reading what I submitted. Researchers doing the 'right thing' deserve better."

    Of course they do, but this is Micros~1 you're talking to here. The world leader of enshittification (e14n). Besides, you know those clowns can't fix anything these days. So you, Mr. Dorman, being treated like belly-button lint shouldn't surprise you, or anyone else, for that matter.

    It's not like they don't have form for this; they've been treating their putative customers like this for decades now.

    1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
      Unhappy

      Re: Just who do you think you're talking to?

      It seems to me that not only can they not fix things, they're actually actively trying to prevent the issues from reaching the developers* in the first place.

      * all both of them, probably

  16. gitignore

    Frame rate

    Didn't they already send videos ? Just really short ones.

  17. DCS

    It's all about playing games with the SLA

    One reason they're likely doing this is they know that creating a video is a time-consuming task. While they've got the user off playing at being Steven Spielberg they can then put the ticket as 'with user' - thereby stopping the SLA from counting down.

    So, so many companies have started doing this nowadays. They'll ask you questions that you've already covered in the initial ticket, or want something completely unrelated, or want to do a remote session to see the issue 'in person'.

    It's all so they avoid actually taking ownership of the problem (aka kick it down the road until it becomes someone else's problem) without impacting the SLA timescales.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: It's all about playing games with the SLA

      Started? If by started, you mean the last ten years, then yes. Started. I guess.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Better backing track?

    could just chant something like:

    Microsoft suck-suck yucky-yucky muck-muck

    Microsoft suck-suck yucky-yuck bleah

    in a loop with a rhythm?

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Better backing track?

      Or the audio of that famous Ballmer video… “here’s my issue video, as requested, and to motivate and inspire your debug team I have given it a soundtrack of ‘Developers Developers DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!!!’ repeating over and over again…”

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Too many muppets and not enough time !!!

    This is NOT an excuse by any means !!!

    The main driver behind this is 'TIME'.

    The support drone has 3 minutes to understand your issue and respond to it.

    If the support drone cannot read fast and has 'reduced' understanding of the software etc they are supporting ... it takes too long !!!

    The hope is that your video will allow them to fast-forward through the issue and still have time to solve the problem.

    If english is not their 1st language, long textual descriptions are difficult to understand.

    Videos containing too much detail are equally the problem and difficult to understand.

    Net result is that long and/or complex issues DON'T get solved !!!

    THIS IS NOT NEW ... I CAN GO BACK 30-40 YEARS AND FIND THE SAME PROBLEM.

    The fix is simple but costs money ... put well trained people on the support line !!!

    As ever, this will not happen as profits are impacted by employing properly trained people.

    :)

    P.S.

    The only way to push this is to vote with your feet ... BAD SUPPORT should lead to dropping the product for something else.

    This will, of course, require finding a usable new product and possible re-training of 'your' staff !!!

    Who wants to go first & explain this to the C-grade people in your organisation !!!

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This uppity BS from vendors was predictable when the whole "responsible disclosure" thing started taking hold. Vendors just kept pushing until they basically claiming they could take as long as they wanted and make reporters jump through any hoops they wanted. And the groveling for "bug bounties" made the chance of consequences remote. Any possible protection the system might have given to users went out the window ages ago.

    It's time to go back to the days of "dump full details on bugtraq and let Microsoft find them there".

  21. Mike Lewis

    The Microsoft Support Community isn't much better

    Someone asked how to add "Copy to folder" and "Move to folder" to the context menu of Windows 10's File Explorer. Microsoft advised them to reinstall the operating system.

    I knew it was two simple registry changes with Windows 7 so I made a VM of Windows 10, did the changes and it worked.

    I reported my findings and got an email from Microsoft congratulating me on having solved my problem.

  22. spold Silver badge

    I would have used a garage metal track. Nothing like some pain. I have one on my laptop so when I get marketing or malicious calls I ask them to please hold and then play it... (going for a coffee meantime).

  23. tailsito123

    Next Up:

    Hey we'll need a small report to go wtih your Video

    Could yolu lengthen it to 15 pages?

    Mind stopping by the office?

    Working with our team fo ra day on it (bounty compensation)?

    MAybe it could take a little bit longer than. aday.

    etc..

    And all for 5$/hr Yeah m$oft get the money

  24. JLV Silver badge
    Happy

    This reminds me of a certain unnamed vendor where I had a massive bughunt going.

    SUP DUDE #1 - Please submit the details of your environment.

    Me: Done.

    ... long back and forth ...

    SUP DUDE #1 - gonna need to escalate.

    SUP DUDE #2 - Please submit the details of your environment.

    Me: but it's already there

    SUP DUDE #2 - Please submit the details of your environment.

    Me: Done.

    ... long back and forth ...

    SUP DUDE #2 - gonna need to escalate.

    SUP DUDE #3 - ... I'll let you all guess...

    I get the idea. As tech support, one metric you get rated on your turnaround time. 5 min to send a request for unnecessary info to a customer does wonders for turnaround time. Especially if they get fed up, don't follow up and you close it for inactivity :-) Win win!

  25. mr-slappy

    Director's Cut

    Haven't watched it yet - I'm waiting for the extended director's cut with audio commentary.

  26. Wellyboot Silver badge

    Upcoming MS Press release

    The quantity of bug reports has dropped markedly over the last two quarters, customer feedback was instrumental in fine tuning MS internal processes to achieve this improvement in product quality.

  27. Delbert

    Just to make a point!

    I would have added a clip right at the end of the famous Rick Astley- Never Gonna Give You Up because nothing says you have been had like being Rick Rolled

  28. atheist
    FAIL

    Powerpoint

    Take the screenshots and turn them into powerpoint slides.

    Save the powerpoint as a video.

    We all know those who prefer this method of receiving info are idiots/management.

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