CISA pen-tester says 100-strong red team binned after DOGE canceled contract

A penetration tester who worked at the US govt's CISA claims his 100-strong team was effectively dismissed after Elon Musk's Trump-blessed DOGE unit cancelled a contract – and that more folks have also been put out of work by the cybersecurity agency. “On Friday, February 28, 2025, at 1600 hours, the government contract I …

[Anonymous Coward]

New Orleans

"Defunding EI-ISAC doesn’t just weaken election security, it leaves communities wide open to cyberattacks on schools, emergency services, and local governments," he added."

I have this vision of New Orleans where they couldn't be bothered to spend money on proper flood protection. But then Katrina visited town.

Some real cost savings were made in New Orleans, for some time.

Now the American people defund the cyber flood protection.

Oh, and the hurricane warning system is shut down too (NOAA).

And infection protection too (CDC).

Real cost savings are made here by Doge. These cost savings will have an impact on the deficit for a long time. I suspect the impact might be "surprising".

[sanmigueelbeer]

Re: New Orleans

This is like the exchange between Transport Secretary Sean Duffy and Musk: "I have multiple plane crashes to deal with now, and your people want me to fire air traffic controllers?"

Of course, "someone" responded with an even better solution, "Hire geniuses from M.I.T. These air traffic controllers need to be the best."

FOOTNOTE:

The Soviets had the "Iron Curtain". PRoC had the "Bamboo Curtain". I have this itch that Donald wants an "Orange Curtain".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: New Orleans

I have this itch that Donald wants an "Orange Curtain".

I'm not botherer about the colo(u)r, just so long as it's curtains for him (and Musk) sometime real soon

[Naich]

Re: New Orleans

Donald is a beef curtain.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: New Orleans

Makes me wonder if what's behind that Orange curtain's the same as what's behind the green curtain, and whether it can hold a candle to what's Behind the Green Door? ... inquiring minds ...

[Trygve Henriksen]

Re: New Orleans

Read it quickly, and it sounds like Orangutan...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: New Orleans

Say it softly, and it's almost like praying.

(what for is up to the reader to decide)

[Michael Strorm]

Re: New Orleans

"Hire geniuses from M.I.T. These air traffic controllers need to be the best."

So, this was in the context of the Department of Governmental "Efficiency" reportedly trying to *fire* air traffic controllers for that (claimed) reason, yet somehow the solution is to *hire* "geniuses from MIT"?

The same people who could likely earn many times more than an existing air controller's salary in a much less stressful job and would need to be paid far more than the existing to incentivise them away from that, even assuming their being "genius from MIT" made them the best fit for that job? (Spoiler; it doesn't).

If Musk himself had said that, I'd take it for granted that the edgy-14-year-old-in-a-fiftysomething-manchild's-body was trolling.

Coming from Trump, though, I can quite believe he meant it seriously. Even as an off-the-cuff brain fart with no thought put into it, its stupidity would have been obvious to anyone with half a brain even in the split second before it reached their mouth.

In Trump's case, the pathological narcissist most likely takes for granted it was a good idea *purely because* it came out of his own mouth.

[that one in the corner]

Re: New Orleans

> assuming their being "genius from MIT" made them the best fit for that job?

"SpeedBird 17 is in trouble, can you route to an alternative landing strip?"

Pick the appropriate response:

* "Is this SpeedBird spherical and in a vacuum?"

* "Hang on, I'm recalibrating the radar, I think I can use it for Magnetar detection"

* "Can you sign my funding request?"

* "Um, my doctorate was in Archaeological Materials; are there any unusual fired-clay pots involved?"

[sanmigueelbeer]

Re: New Orleans

(Comments below not aimed at @Michael Strorm.)

In my humble opinion, the current air traffic controllers are already "the best": How many planes have successfully landed/take off without any mishaps for the last 12 months?

If Elon gets his way and indiscriminately terminated the air traffic controller, what is the future of air travel safety is flying in/out of American airspace going to be like? It is not like air traffic controller can be trained in a matter of hours behind a YT video.

Fire `em all and then get a private service provider to fill in the role?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Private Air Controle

"Fire `em all and then get a private service provider to fill in the role?"

I think that is the objective. Private companies are owned by private persons who make all profits private. Losses, however, will be made public.

[ColinPa]

Space planners

Where I worked they had a small group of (lowly paid) workers who organised office moves. They made sure all the network connections were in place, you had space for your cupboards etc, they organised the movers , and it just worked.

To save money this team was let go, and managers had to do the work. Managers were paid a lot more than the space planners, and had to learn the ropes.

We had a move, and found the space we were going to still had the previous occupants because they could not move because their network connections were not set up.

Although they saved money in one budget -overall it cost money because expensive people were doing the work - taking longer, and we wasted time moving/not moving.

This expense did not show up in a budget - so "We saved money" was not true.

[Anonymous Coward]

Orangina

> I have this itch that Donald wants an "Orange Curtain".

Isn't that something Melania ends up with after the two of them have marital relations?

[sanmigueelbeer]

Re: Orangina

Isn't that something Melania ends up with after the two of them have marital relations?

No, Stormy Daniels came up with the idea of the "Orange Curtain" after seeing a mushroom.

[Eclectic Man]

Re: New Orleans

"Defunding EI-ISAC doesn’t just weaken election security, it leaves communities wide open to cyberattacks on schools, emergency services, and local governments," he added."

Umm, didn't the now President Trump claim during hie election campaign that if he was elected nobody would ever have to vote again?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/30/donald-trump-wont-have-to-vote-anymore-fox-interview

"Donald Trump on Monday repeated his weekend remarks to Christian summit attendees that they would never need to vote again if he returns to the presidency in November."

In that case, why bother with electoral security?

Troll icon, coz this may cause offence to some, and I have enough downvotes already.

[Wang Cores]

Talking points, but it's hard to deny

The American people decided in their pitiless and precise estimations that:

A) vaccination makes people unhealthy

B) the best use of the natural beauty of this nation is for logging and mining to make private interests richer

C) The very modest social protections they get are already too generous and must be streamlined

D) It is economic terrorism to deny their masters money

E) “The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy.”

[Dimmer]

Re: Talking points, but it's hard to deny

(A) specify certain Covid vaccines did harm people or at least that is why some European countries said they banned them.

(B) Either manage the forest or let nature burn the underbrush itself. The folks in California can tell u that. My family has been tree farmers for generations. There is no get rich there in protecting the environment. Although stripping the trees and mining it for minerals might.

(C) the government sent me a letter saying SSI is out of money in a few years. Only cuts I have heard of is dropping those that are no longer alive.

(D) Got that right. They are going bonkers due to the defunding of the NGOs. Hopefully it will be put in(C)

(E) The strength of civilization is common sense, free speech and Empathy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Talking points, but it's hard to deny

(A) Getting Covid was worse than any vaccin

(B) Just remind you of the dust bowl. Clear cutting and strip mining do wonders to water management and the people depending on it.

(C) SSI is not supposed to run a profit. It does depend on compassion and the willingness to put your money where your mouth is

(D) Experience over the millenia has shown that compassion with strangers translates to compassion at home. Indifference to strangers abroad translates to indifference to strangers at home. Money taken from the NGOs will not be used for the needy at home

(E) The strength of civilization is taking responsibility for the wellbeing of your compatriots, whomever they be

[Dimmer]

Re: Talking points, but it's hard to deny

(A) had Covid. Did not take the vaccine and don’t have a heart condition like some (not everyone) people.

(B) my family and I are completely against strip mining and have forest where there were over farmed sand pits.

(C) in the states, there is nothing voluntary about social security. Either you pay or the IRS will take your home.

(D) agree with your sentiment and wish that was what it was used for.

[The man with a spanner]

Re: New Orleans

Perhaps these guys can get a job with the ex Twitter thing. They appear to need some enhanced security.

[JoeCool]

Re: New Orleans

Didn't NO in fact pay the Army Corp of Engineers to build the levys and then got F*cked because the USACE screwed up *everything* about the project ?

The irony is that USACE is a prime example of the problems DOGE should actually be targetting.

[MachDiamond]

Re: New Orleans

"because the USACE screwed up *everything* about the project ?"

If I remember the stories, part of the problem was maintenance and updating of the levees. New Orleans is darn near AT sea level and the French knew all about flooding when they sold it to the yanks. The first bad idea might have been to build levees and build in the area. The next bad idea was to continue building in the area and ignore upkeep on those levees as well as not address weaknesses in the original design as new data came in.

So often there is money to build something, but often no money to keep it in good nick.

[Phil Koenig]

Re: New Orleans

New Orleans is darn near AT sea level...

Actually New Orleans is anywhere between 2 to 6 metres BELOW sea level. As the locals say: "It's like a big bowl".

They have pumps that have to constantly pump the water out of the city when it gets rainy there.

Of course, the pumps also have a habit of failing...

[Philo T Farnsworth]

Re: New Orleans

> Of course, the pumps also have a habit of failing...

There are two sets of pumps -- one set, the Wood Screw Pumps (no, they're not made of wood) work well and have "played a crucial role in protecting New Orleans from flooding for almost a century¹."

The ones built by the United States Army Corps of Engineers in the new and improved hurricane protection system, not so well² -- something of which a Corps whistleblower³ warned back in 2009.

But this is what happens when you give $14.5 billion dollars to fix a problem to the same people who created it in the first place⁴.

________________________

¹ Wood Screw Pump

² Army Corps of Engineers began repair on New Orleans pumping stations after corrosion discovered

³ Seven Years After Katrina, New Orleans Still Has Defective Pumps Revealed by Whistleblower

⁴ New Orleans’ flood protection system: Stronger than ever, weaker than it was supposed to be

[Dimmer]

Re: New Orleans

Upvote for the citations

[MachDiamond]

Re: New Orleans

"But this is what happens when you give $14.5 billion dollars to fix a problem to the same people who created it in the first place4."

At the same time, would it really be better to give the contract to Bob's Fishing, Bait and Levee shop?

Any time a government agency is involved, there's no doubt it could be done better and cheaper, yet who would you pick to do it? California is trying to build HSR to connect two points that don't need connecting and after spending billions, they don't have all of the land in the corridor nor a clear plan to extend the line into the Los Angeles area. The voters approved a public/private venture, but no private companies were optimistic about the plan so there's graft and lots of it. In the mean time, Brightline (I'm pretty sure) is supposed to be connecting up LA and San Fran with a sleeper train that goes over existing track similar to the Caledonian Sleeper service. With better than 50 flights per day, going fast is no problem as long as the queue to the strip search room isn't that long.

Keeping New Orleans dry is going to be a long term experiment. I'm not optimistic that it's worth the money it will take to reduce the flooding risk to a point where insurers are not scared silly.

[Philo T Farnsworth]

Re: New Orleans

> At the same time, would it really be better to give the contract to Bob's Fishing, Bait and Levee shop?

To be honest, I wish I knew.

The Corps is acknowledged to a lot of things really well, mostly in support of military operations. Its civil engineering projects, however, are often not among its successes for a number of reasons.

First among them is the short time duration of posting of the commanders of the divisions. Like all military organizations, personnel are rotated on a frequent basis, I believe two years is customary. That has the effect of destroying a lot of institutional memory in the command structure and also tends to diffuse the responsibilty for any decisions and subsequent failures.

Second, thanks to a long term program of outsourcing, there's not a lot of expertise in the Corps itself, even amongst the long term civilian staff.

As Univerisity of California, Berkeley, Engineering Professor Robert Bea told Harry Shearer in the documentary The Big Uneasy (see elsewhere for the reference), "It's not your father's Corps of Engineers any more." By that, he meant that the organization had been reduced to largely a contract awarding and administrating agency, instead of a pick, shovel, and bulldozer construction agency.

The deterioration of the Corps is a long term failure, extending over multiple Presidential Adminstrations and both parties, so nobody has the political will or desire to point fingers, since the pointing eventually ends right back at the pointer. Budgets slosh back and forth, depending upon the party in power and the ideology in play.

For decades it's been the fashion to outsource all manner of tasks and projects to private industry on the theory that a profit-motivated company will do a job better and/or cheaper.

Sometimes that works.

A lot of times, it doesn't.

Sometimes when it doesn't, people drown in their homes from failure flood walls that should have held in what was, when it hit New Orleans, a Category 1 storm¹.

As to why a military organization has responsibility for civil engineering projects, as well as boat ramps, parks, canal locks, and dozens of other decidedly civilian tasks, well, that's a mystery to me.

In case you're wondering why I'm going on about this, I should note that I'm a sort of loose acquaintence of Harry Shearer, mostly via email, and we've spent a great deal of time and thousands of words bashing this story back and forth. Like a lot of people, I started out under the impression that New Orleans is below sea level (only parts of it are) and that it was a stupid place to build a city. Harry's passion about the story (he lives in New Orleans) and his command of the facts taught me otherwise.

The wrong impression of and misinformation about Katrina with respect to New Orleans, I've come to believe, is one of the largest failures by journalism of this century.

______________

¹ Effects of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: New Orleans

"So often there is money to build something, but often no money to keep it in good nick."

The Netherlands are built below sea level. Maintenance and upgrades are the name of the game.

It helps enormously when everybody will get wet feet when the dikes fail. Contributing is easier to arrange when your own house is on the line.

[Philo T Farnsworth]

Re: New Orleans

> I have this vision of New Orleans where they couldn't be bothered to spend money on proper flood protection. But then Katrina visited town.

If you have that vision, I suggest you visit your optometrist, STAT.

Katrina (so-called) was an enormous failure of planning and engineering overseen by the United States Army Corps of Engineers, an acknowledged human-made disaster.

Two forensic engineering reports put the responsibility for the flooding of New Orelans directly upon the malfeasance and incompetence of the Corps.

It wasn't not being bothered to spend money -- billions were spent but the result was a "hurricane protection system [...] in name only.¹"

There's far too much detail for me to go into here but if you want to clear up your vision about Katrina, I can recommend Dr Ivor van Heerden's book The Storm², John McQuaid and Mark Schleifstein's book Path of Destruction³ or, for the video oriented, Harry Shearer's The Big Uneasy⁴.

_____________________

¹ Army Corps Admits Flaws in New Orleans Levees

² The Storm

³ Path of Destruction

⁴ The Big Uneasy (note, it is a bit long and preachy but the facts are all there and, no, it's not a "mockumentary")

[harrys]

Yawn

Another boring US centric story involving humpty and dumpties shenanigans

Come back home u expat register journo's

u know u want too, u only went there for the money :)

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Yawn

USA technological security is kinda a big deal, even to us on the other side of the pond.

[Will Godfrey]

FTFY

USA technological security was kinda a big deal, even to us on the other side of the pond.

P.S. No, I didn't downvote you.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Yawn

"USA technological security is kinda a big deal, even to us on the other side of the pond."

Both the attack methods and the responses are often universal. There's some big security companies that provide services worldwide so if a crew of bad girls break in somewhere, that same approach is going to be tried in many places. It's not just going to be a US thing or a EUR thing.

[BadRobotics]

Re: Yawn

I come here for the larfs, El Reg has quite a rep of delivering 'tongue in cheek' journalism, keep it coming I say.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Yawn

Suddenly what might have been for larfs turns out to be for real.

[Jamie Jones]

But Trump want to save Americans money!

All this talk about government efficiency.. Does anyone still believe it, considering they shuttered the very departments that look at waste, efficiency and fraud?

It's also funny how Musk attacked first the departments that were investigating his dodgy dealings: USAID re Starlink fraud, the department that checks for workplace malpractices who were also investigating him, and the FAA who he thinks are unfairly restricting his rights to blow up his large space-x fireworks in the sky.

As for Trump, he's already cost the US tax payer $18,000,000 this year on his golf trips. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/is-donald-trump-perfecting-his-golf-game-on-us-taxpayers-dime-president-reportedly-spent-millions-on-13-rounds-in-just-48-days/articleshow/118819582.cms?from=mdr"

And some morons still think Musk and Trump are giving their time to America for free!

[m4r35n357]

Re: But Trump want to save Americans money!

So much winning!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: But Trump want to save Americans money!

I'm tired of winning, please let it stop.

[The man with a spanner]

Re: But Trump want to save Americans money!

Too much efficiency.....

There are several very different types of efficiency ask an accountant and an engineer.

[MachDiamond]

Re: But Trump want to save Americans money!

"All this talk about government efficiency.. Does anyone still believe it, considering they shuttered the very departments that look at waste, efficiency and fraud?"

It's all par for the course given Elon's modus operendi. Savings need to be made, so just fire a whole load of people. Extremely short term covered, long term destroyed. Delete the entire Supercharger team to teach the department head a lesson about sticking up for her reports and warn off any others thinking of bucking the boss too.

Obama was one for running up a massive bill for golf excursions. I expect with so many people losing their DC jobs, a patch can be found to turn into a secure golf course with super high curtain walls.

There's plenty of room to excise fraud and waste from any government, but there's also many functions of the government that are very necessary or need to be rolled back in a measured way. In the US, it's the States that are primarily responsible for education. Shifting or deleting some of what the Federal department as doing is not a bad thing, but, there is still a good argument to be made for overarching standards and rules. For example, a student graduating from high school should be at a certain reading comprehension level, have passed some science courses and has basic proficiency in math. That will mean that there will be some equality among what somebody with a diploma should know regardless of what state their school was in. All of that shouldn't take thousands of staff in a granite building that costs $1mn/day to keep warm in winter.

[MachDiamond]

Re: But Trump want to save Americans money!

"Does anyone still believe it"

Not in the least. There's numerous examples of the scythe being taken to entire agencies, divisions and groups only to find that the only people that can do an important thing have been sacked.

One slap on the forehead was the firing of a maintenance person in a national park. National Parks in the US can be quite large and distant from cities. The issue was that the person dis-employed was the only locksmith they had. I expect they had other duties and perhaps they hadn't been on the roles that long, but all of a sudden, getting a lock sorted might take days if somebody could be hired to come all the way out to the park.

I can see situations where somebody let go was the replacement/intern under somebody leaving after years in the role. The person that knew everything about the job has left and their understudy has been booted out since they weren't in the job all that long. Reducing staff is a very nuanced process and just getting rid of the most recent people hired isn't a good plan.

[deadlockvictim]

Stolen Elections

When you accept the premise that elections that properly belonged to one Donald J. Trump (aka The Donald) were stolen (in broad daylight too), then obviously the election-monitoring agencies that oversaw the stolen elections are either incompetent or evil.

And so they have to go.

Likewise, their removal means that future elections will be now be, em, fair & balanced.

[Flocke Kroes]

Re: Stolen Elections

This is efficiency working as planned. King Donnald the First does not need any more elections. Election security is clear a waste of money. Likewise what is the point of CISA if there are no more schools, emergency services or local government?

[Like a badger]

Re: Stolen Elections

Indeed, all is working as planned. But I think we have to recognise that the latest US polls still indicate that the Orange Felon has 50% approval ratings at home. Judging by US news, citizens do see that he's Putin's patsy, and that Trumponomics isn't showing any signs of working, BUT that still isn't worrying those who voted for bullying, misogyny, nepotism, cronyism, and destruction of checks and balances. That latter group are getting what they voted for.

In today's daily edition, the felon has posed outside the White House and declared the consumer boycott of Nazicars to be "illegal", and vandalism against Nazicar Inc's dealerships to be "domestic terrorism". Hopefully those 50% of electors who voted for and still support him approve of the descent of the SU to become a banana republic.

But....this US thing about having more heavily armed citizens than the total count of Chinese military forces, wasn't that exactly to empower citizens to prevent government over-reach? Don't think this is going in any good direction for the US.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Stolen Elections

"heavily armed citizens ... wasn't that exactly to empower citizens to prevent government over-reach?"

I think not quite. The second amendment has:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The security of the state intended here was from external threats, I suspect.

Anyone outside of un-sane 50 might imagine the right to keep and bear arms was somewhat conditional on broad participation in a regulated militia especially in the absence of a standing army.

"...from my cold, dead hands." Arranged with pleasure.

[isdnip]

Re: Stolen Elections

The Second Amendment was put in at the insistence of southerners, who intended it for slave-catching militias. "Regulated" in that sentence meant trained. Of course the first part has been totally ignored by the extremist Supreme Court and now the country is awash with military weapons in the hands of yobbos.

[juice]

Re: Stolen Elections

> But I think we have to recognise that the latest US polls still indicate that the Orange Felon has 50% approval ratings at home

As ever, things aren't quite that simple: his approval ratings are definitely starting to trend downwards, particularly around the economy, foreign affairs and tariffs. Which perhaps isn't too surprising, given how tightly they're all intertwined at present.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/12/politics/cnn-poll-trump-economy/index.html

As markets slide and investors worry in response to Trump’s trade policies, a 56% majority of the public disapproves of his handling of the economy

Realistically, it's going to take weeks - if not months - before Trump's economic policies really start to take effect; as with Brexit, many companies have built up stockpiles in preparation, and at least some will do their best to absorb the extra costs.

On the other hand, the main way to reduce costs is to fire people. And even that's probably not enough to absorb a 25% (or more) increase in costs, so prices are still going to rise. Inflation and unemployment; best buddies for life!

Plus, and especially for companies which rely on Just In Time deliveries of equipment and components, the stockpiles will run out at some point. And it's highly unlikely that "local" suppliers will be ready; it generally takes years to build new factories, train staff and get production quality up to an acceptable level.

So they'll have to go back to their original suppliers. Assuming these haven't switched to other customers and products, as happened during Covid with the car industry and things like low-end CPU manufacturing.

All in all, and barring some sort of miracle which none of the economic experts believe in, things are likely to look very different - and a lot more expensive - in a few months time. And the polls will reflect that.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Stolen Elections

"things are likely to look very different - and a lot more expensive"

The mugs faithful will keep on believing him when he keeps on blaming Biden, China, Eaurope, Canada, Denmark,* Zelensky ....

* Yes, of course we know Denmark's part of Europe but do he, Vance and the MAGAites?

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Stolen Elections

So they'll have to go back to their original suppliers. Assuming these haven't switched to other customers and products, as happened during Covid with the car industry and things like low-end CPU manufacturing.

So Americans, apparently already struggling due to the lack of availability of affordable models on the US market, will have to pay even more for the horribly expensive monstrosities they can already barely afford to finance when suppliers shift to more reliable markets and aren't willing to switch back instantly just to help *them* out?

That's a real shame. No, really, my heart's bleeding for them. Honestly.

Maybe they could take up walking instead? It'd only take a few hours for them to get anywhere in those sprawling, bloated cities built with sod all infrastructure or consideration for pedestrians because they assumed- and intended- that everyone would have a car.

I mean, if they were lucky, they might even reach their workplace before it was time to go home!

[MachDiamond]

Re: Stolen Elections

"Plus, and especially for companies which rely on Just In Time deliveries of equipment and components, the stockpiles will run out at some point. "

With J.I.T., there's little wiggle room before prices for their goods have to be put up. If it's 25% more money for Aluminum one week to the next, the prices must rise that fast as well. A question comes around about contracts with negotiated pricing. There's a way in contract law to nullify a contract if costs the producer must pay rise significantly. The definition of "significantly" is where the lawyers make loads of money. In the mean time, trade comes to a halt since the producer of goods could be underwater on the contract and that leads to the buyer not being able to acquire the goods they need for their business and the end user is completely out of luck. Let's hope you didn't already tile half your home and suddenly can't get anymore of the same to finish the job.

One of my mantras is that change isn't the problem as much as the rate of change can be. I'm seeing more people commenting that Elon has no clue that there's a difference between babies and bath water.

[Blazde]

Re: Stolen Elections

One of my mantras is that change isn't the problem as much as the rate of change can be

The rate of change but also the constant 11th hour uncertainty. It's difficult to see how Trump's schizophrenic approach to tariffs could be any more damaging.

Compare this to Brexit uncertainty: there were two very different scenarios, one or other of which would play out on one fixed date known well in advance but possibly with very little warning as to which. It was costly and the odds on each scenario evolved over time but most companies were able to take their time to carefully evaluate both scenarios and either stockpile, establish cash reserves, hire extra employees, renegotiate contracts, enter financial hedges, etc.. so they were well prepared for both. They had a lot of government help urging to prepare for the worst, and the less bad scenario played out in the end.

Similar to Brexit however, fairly quickly the line will be that America can't be great again without some pain along the way (a favoured redoubt for quack cancer cures and the like too). Trump meanwhile will relish the queue of US industry bosses grovelling to their godfather to make exceptions for their industry or company.

I'm seeing more people commenting that Elon has no clue that there's a difference between babies and bath water

Assuming he has any concern for babies may be the mistake here..

[MachDiamond]

Re: Stolen Elections

"Assuming he has any concern for babies may be the mistake here.."

If you throw the baby out with the bath water and discover that you'd like the baby back, it may not be possible.

If you fire all the people looking after the country's nuclear arsenal and reconsider, not having a way to contact them is an issue. Especially if they also try to delete the post office. There's also a good chance those people will have found new jobs and won't be interested in returning unless they haven't found a better job. Your "uncertainly" statement is a real winner here. I would not like to be working ina job that may go away on any given day if I am expecting it to be moderately permanent. I'll be looking to find something else.

[Blazde]

Re: Stolen Elections

I would not like to be working ina job that may go away on any given day if I am expecting it to be moderately permanent

One of the more serious concerns along these lines is that, especially if trade tariffs and cuts tank the economy seriously, it'll be fertile ground for foreign intelligence agencies to recruit. Unjustly firing the people who know your secrets is incredibly poor op sec.

[Phil Koenig]

Re: Stolen Elections

Realistically, it's going to take weeks - if not months - before Trump's economic policies really start to take effect...

The impacts are already here. All those people who were shock-fired with zero notice will be chopping their expenditures, defaulting on monthly payments and loans, and the various businesses that did substantial business with the eviscerated agencies and their workers will have to either radically downsize themselves or just close down entirely. I've already seen reports of these things.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Stolen Elections

"the eviscerated agencies and their workers will have to either radically downsize themselves or just close down entirely. I've already seen reports of these things."

If I were in a position where the government was a major part of my business and things were chopped, I'd pack up the business, put valuable things in storage and reduce expenses immediately. If I were in DC where space can be very expensive, the faster the better. Hanging on for a week would be money thrown away. Sorry, Mr. Landlord that I didn't have any notice to give, got none myself.

[Mike 137]

Re: Stolen Elections

"King Donnald the First does not need any more elections"

In fact, he could only possibly be Donald IV, as there were three kings Donald of Scotland (where, to its shame if true, Trump lays claim to ancestry apparently). The first was king of Alba from 858 to 862, and the last, Donald III (Domnall Bán) reigned from 1093 to1094 and 1094 to1097.

[Anonymous Coward]

@Mike 137 - Re: Stolen Elections

What happened between the two reigns of Donald III, was it an election ?

[Mike 137]

Re: @Mike 137 - Stolen Elections

"was it an election"

Yes.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Stolen Elections

That's fine. There is precedence for someone from Scotland becoming King elsewhere and re-starting his count from 1.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Stolen Elections

There is precedence for someone from Scotland

At the risk of stating the obvious... Trump isn't from Scotland, his mother was, and that's as far as it goes.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, Trump has no plausible royal lineage. (Even ignoring the fact that the throne of Scotland was merged into that of the United Kingdom centuries ago he has about as much claim to being the King of Scotland as I do).

Most people here in Scotland think he's a POS. We already had prior experience of what a bullying, disgusting piece of worthless human garbage he was by the way he treated anyone opposed to the golf course he opened here around fifteen years ago.

If the people of the US saw fit to elevate such a person to the office of president not just once, but twice, that's entirely on them- don't involve Scotland in any of this.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Stolen Elections

What are the bets he'll start a war in 18 months time, and cancel the midterm elections because "we are at war"?

[RedGreen925]

Re: Stolen Elections

"What are the bets he'll start a war in 18 months time, and cancel the midterm elections because "we are at war"?"

Nah I think he is angling for martial law declaration with all the chaos he is causing leading to massive protests. That is if them spinless chicken shit Democrats every grow a pair and fight back for a change. Then he gets to suspend all civil liberties and elections while the never endings crises he will provoke continue on for years and years.

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Stolen Elections

Ahhhh. Good point. So, he actually wants protests to intensify and get violent!

I agree with your concern though: Apart from a few, most Democrats will still be asleep when the shit goes down... And republicans call them woke!

[MachDiamond]

Re: Stolen Elections

"What are the bets he'll start a war in 18 months time,"

He'd need to reinstate the draft. The armed services have been having all sorts of challenges getting recruits as it is. The ones the do get aren't often the ones they need.

Would there be a mass migration to Canada and Mexico of military aged men? Seeing how those countries are being treated, they might not be unhappy about not helping send them back.

[Anonymous Coward]

@deadlockvictim - Re: Stolen Elections

Yeah, how comes they didn't accept external NGO to monitor the election process and insure everything is done in a transparent and democratic manner ?

[EricM]

What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

Reducing Americas soft power. Reducing integrated response capabilities to external threats. Removing U.S. from international cooperations. Weakening America's allies. Declaring trade wars, Executing mass layoffs weaking the US economy and potentially triggering a recession. Declaring, rising, removing or increasing a tarrif nearly every day, making any form of planning impossible for companies.

Working on cutting the already minimal social security mechanisms, potentially causing civil unrest. Reducing internal and external Cyberdefenses and Cyber attack capabilites. Reducing physical defense capabilities.

And that's just the result from the first 10 weeks.

Under all normally considered explanations for the sub-par execution of a national administration, like concentrated incompetence, extreme Dunning Kruger, ideological instead of factual advisors, corruption, etc. an accidential 100% miss rate of actually only /keeping/ America somewhat great is pretty improbable.

But under the assumption that both are actually working for adversiaries of the US, I'd say, OK, well done, even a perfect execution.

Not sure if that really is the case, but it seems much more probable at this point than the alternative.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

This. Killing MS-ISAC? That service provides valuable threat intel to states - I know, I work with it every day (hence the AC).

Make no mistake. They are now actively helping our adversaries.

[Blazde]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

Trump did actually say "I'm on the side of the world" recently. Maybe he meant it.

And we already know Musk is on Mars' side..

[Phil Koenig]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

Trump did actually say "I'm on the side of the world" recently. Maybe he meant it.

And we already know Musk is on Mars' side..

Billionaires have zero "national allegiance".

Their only true "allegiance" is to their money.

The world has no need for billionaires.

[Tron]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

I don't think, in their wildest dreams, Xi and Putin could do the amount of damage that Trump and Musk are doing. I suppose there is no higher authority in the US that could charge them with treason, so I guess Americans will have to do what we had to through Brexit in the UK. Watch the damage unfold and make the best of the wreckage that is left. It will take the UK generations to recover from Brexit and it will take the US generations to recover from Trump and Musk.

[heyrick]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

"that could charge them with treason"

It's worse than that I'm afraid. The not-at-all-horrifically-corrupt Supremes basically made him untouchable for things that he does as President. So he has zero reason to give a shit. And, as we've heard from his various speeches, he isn't exactly inhabiting the same reality that most of the rest of us are.

"make the best of the wreckage that is left"

Poverty, joblessness, chaos and guns. I can see this being a much bigger mess than Brexit ever could be.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

"Poverty, joblessness, chaos and guns. I can see this being a much bigger mess than Brexit ever could be."

Ameeca really is exceptional. When they self destruct, they do it thoroughly.

[heyrick]

Re: What would Trump/Musk actually do differently if they were working for a foreign power?

Can't you just imagine Trump: We're gonna self destruct. And it's going to be the best self destruct you've ever seen. The biggest. It'll be beautiful. Beautiful. Nobody will self destruct better. We're gonna do it. We will. We'll do it. And it'll be beautiful.

[Anonymous Coward]

Doge

At this point you can't make it up. Clearing out a department of defence cyber team in the name of cutting costs by a team created within days and absolutely no mandate to check what costs it is cutting before it cuts them.

However is something more nefarious going on here? Tin foil hat time. You get in power. You want to be the dictator. Let's face it lots of people all throughout history have wanted this. How do you go about it? You would have to get the military on your side somehow so you would start making your own appointments in that area. You may have to get the public on side. You could use war as a way to power because during wars you can get away with a lot of things but the world we live in doesn't allow that in certain countries due to nukes. What if you were to self destruct the country from within? You don't have to destroy it all. All you would have to do is give it a non-functional government then come in as the saviour and that would also get the public on side. Making your neighbours appear as enemies would also be a good move. Worth a thought. It's either that, there is another reason or Musk and Trump are complete imbeciles who have no idea what they are doing which is just as dangerous.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Doge

Removing security teams may be related to Doge adding backdoors to government systems so that when Musk is eventuially sidelined he still has all the access he wants.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Doge

That's a good point. It could be removing the security teams that will identify unauthorised access now as well. Remove the guards first and in you go.

[that one in the corner]

Any more juicy tech details available?

I've been "enjoying" the discussions around ISO 8601 and how the effect it has when a zero is used to indicate "not (yet) known" can lead to Social Security records "showing" people to be approximately 150 years old - if you happen to be too computer illiterate to be trusted near a Tomy box.

The big picture of cyber security risks is important (well, duh) and the results of all these incompetencies are (going to be) devastating. It is also good, if we can, to dig into the extra tech details of where and how some of the other - problematic results - are being generated.

[sabroni]

Thank fuck they're getting rid of those unelected bureaucrats

So lucky that Musk is prepared to let her business crater while she fixes that corrupt deep state thing.

[Triggerfish]

Do you really need them?

After all if the FSB is on BCC for emails...

[Flocke Kroes]

Re: Do you really need them?

They use CC so the default "reply to all" copies replies to the required recipients.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Do you really need them?

Yeah, the FSB is the new BBC in this here burlesque Orange vespasienne tango ...

[Eye Know]

He added: “I love you. Get out – you gotta get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote.”

[EricM]

Yeah, but I did not expect that he meant that there would be no country left that could organize a vote...

[localzuk]

Cancelling contracts?

If I go and cancel a contract mid-term, I get charged, in most cases, the cost of the contract until its planned end date. Do American government contracts not have this in place for third party contractors?

I suspect a lot of these savings are not actually savings, with penalty clauses being enforced later when lawsuits hit.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

How many divisions do you have?

[ecofeco]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

No need to suspect. This has already been noted a few weeks ago by analysts. The lawsuits are going to be VERY costly.

The real kicker is that everyone just accepts that DOGE has ANY authority to do anything. By law AND the Constitution, Little DOGGIE does not have ANY power, yet people are just rolling over for them.

[Blazde]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

The real kicker is that everyone just accepts that DOGE has ANY authority to do anything. By law AND the Constitution, Little DOGGIE does not have ANY power, yet people are just rolling over for them.

This is the bit I don't get. It was a major theme during Trump's first presidency: the realisation that the President doesn't have all that much power. He arsed around with executive orders and has surely gotten better at gaming the system but reshaping the federal budget is clearly congressional territory. The Executive is responsible for managing that budget in order to achieve the aims set out by congress, not to cut it. Surely the whole project should have been paused on day 1 to give the Supreme Court time to lay down the law?

[Jamie Jones]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

But this time around, he's stacked the Supremes in his favour.

[Blazde]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

It's stacked conservative but even the three judges he appointed haven't always ruled in favour of Trump. The whole point of their life-long term is that, unlike your average Republican congress-person, they don't fear losing their career if they refuse to sip the Kool-Aid when he's acting clearly against the constitution, and as yet I don't see that failing when the cases actually get to them. He could actually stack the court though, or threaten them in other ways, but we're not there yet.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

"But this time around, he's stacked the Supremes in his favour."

If there were cases in front of the court being decided in favor of turning a US President into a King, your statement would mean something. The problem here is Mr Trump is using Blitzkrieg tactics with the understanding that the responses will come back glacially slow. Just look at the justices on the Supreme Court and ask yourself if that mob can do anything quickly.

[localzuk]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

The problem with law is that unless someone challenges it, they have authority based on them simply saying they do. Unless Congress actually enforces their role in running the country, there's nothing to stop Trump and his minions doing whatever they want.

Especially within the context of the current legal world - both houses being Republican (read Trump) run, the Supreme Court being full of Trumpists, Trump having control of the DoJ, and the Supreme Court saying that the president can't be prosecuted for acts done as part of the job.

Ultimately, its a structural issue with the governance of the USA.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

> I suspect a lot of these savings are not actually savings

Some of them are even contracts, they are "blanket purchase agreements" that are intended to fix a cost for future purchases and make it easier (read: more efficient, cheaper) for departments to buy those materials and services: Dozens of DOGE ‘receipts’ saved no money and killed contracts meant to boost efficiency.

So killing those is guaranteed to cost more *and* you mustn't forget to ask how much it costs to have the DOGgiEs go in and widdle on the carpets like this.

> I suspect a lot of these savings are not actually savings

Not forgetting that some of the "savings" are entirely fictional and even DOGE "admitted"[1] that: DOGE Quietly Deletes the 5 Biggest Spending Cuts It Celebrated Last Week[2]

> I suspect a lot of these savings are not actually savings

and on and on...

[1] well, removed the entries and entirely failed to admit to having made a mistake. Isn't it great, being able to announce all the "winning" on platforms you can control, so the embarassments can just be - taken away in the middle of the night.

[2] dated 25/02/2025, just to say what "last week" refers to

[that one in the corner]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

Oops.

> Some of them are even contracts, they are "blanket purchase agreements"

...NOT even contracts...

Sigh.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

"> Some of them are even contracts, they are "blanket purchase agreements""

A purchase agreement IS a contract.

The Teaching Company has a good basic course on Contracts.

[Michael Strorm]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

I suspect a lot of these savings are not actually savings

At the risk of stating the obvious, they never were- that was just the excuse being used to get their hands on whatever government entities they were opposed to on the grounds of ideology and their own self-interest and to destroy them.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cancelling contracts?

"Do American government contracts not have this in place for third party contractors?"

Depends which side wrote the contract and the US government can choose to ignore terms if they like. Go ahead, take them to court. In 10 or 20 years of paying your attorney for the "work" she's been doing on the case, she'll have all of the yachts in the set.

[codejunky]

Needed?

Lots of comments from the outside that all these different contracted teams are needed just as people argue the agency funding the covid labs should be protected from cuts. Are they all needed?

You might like your morning starbucks/costa but when you are in huge debt and deficit is it a necessity? And did you really need all the extras?

Finding out what is and isnt worth while government spending isnt easy. It can always be justified to spend more and those arguments will be made to stop spending less. But the US is in debt and deficit.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Needed?

> Finding out what is and isnt worth while government spending isnt easy

So *that* is the explanation for why they are getting it so very, very wrong!

Thanks, codejunky, you've solved it!

[Anonymous Coward]

@that one in the corner - Re: Needed?

I don't think you paid attention to the last sentence, the one about the debt.

[codejunky]

Re: @that one in the corner - Needed?

@AC

"I don't think you paid attention to the last sentence, the one about the debt."

I am fairly sure he has difficulty reading based on previous interactions.

[that one in the corner]

Re: @that one in the corner - Needed?

> I am fairly sure he has difficulty reading based on previous interactions.

Oh come on, codejunky, you can do better than that!

There is a whole wealth of insults, both witty and vulgar, that you could fling to better affect; oh, if only you knew how to find them.

[codejunky]

Re: @that one in the corner - Needed?

@that one in the corner

"Oh come on, codejunky, you can do better than that!

There is a whole wealth of insults, both witty and vulgar, that you could fling to better affect; oh, if only you knew how to find them."

I am not trying to insult you, that is purely just an observation based on our recent interactions where you seem to struggle with simply reading the post, based on the responses you give

[ChodeMonkey]

Re: @that one in the corner - Needed?

"I am not trying to insult you"

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[that one in the corner]

Re: @that one in the corner - Needed?

It's all okay, it's fine if he just considers my writing to be Confessions of a Crap Artist, that'd be an encouragement, if anything.

[that one in the corner]

Re: @that one in the corner - Needed?

> I don't think you paid attention to the last sentence, the one about the debt.

Oh, I did.

It is simply that the effort being put into DOGE's games aren't doing anything substantial about the debt, going by what they find to boast about on doge.com, and the cost to repair the damage they are causing is going to drive the US into *real* debt, both nationally and internationally, in every currency.

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@that one in the corner

"So *that* is the explanation for why they are getting it so very, very wrong!"

In your opinion I guess.

[Trygve Henriksen]

Re: Needed?

Most people when they try to save 'downgrade' their shopping. Instead of Stabucks, they get instant coffee and make it at home. Cheaper, but you still get that caffeine boost.

Instead of an expensive Bagel or donut, you eat a bowl of muesli or something. you still get the energy to work.

DOGE is removing both the coffee and the bagel, but not leaving a substitute anywhere.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Needed?

And Germany is prepared for that: Aldi is on the rise in the US. And, as I recently learned: Many US think that Aldi is an US brand - but they are German through and through. Let those who believe that keep their belief. And those (USA citizens) who know the truth don't mind, they already know Aldi from here and are happy to recognize to similarity and quality.

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@Trygve Henriksen

"DOGE is removing both the coffee and the bagel, but not leaving a substitute anywhere."

Are they? They are making cuts but the government is still there. I know its fun to complain and exaggerate but it is nice to see a government cleaning house and maybe we can get something like that over here (UK)

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Needed?

>Are they? They are making cuts but the government is still there.

Except for education, science, health, veterans, environment

I'm all for getting rid of those expensive fire engines we haven't needed this quarter

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@Yet Another Anonymous coward

"Except for education, science, health, veterans, environment"

Kids aint going to school? No science is being done? The hospitals have closed and doctors have vanished? There are no veterans left!? THE ENVIRONMENT HAS VANISHED?!?!?!?

When did any of that happen?

"I'm all for getting rid of those expensive fire engines we haven't needed this quarter"

You are Gavin Newsom!

[ChodeMonkey]

Re: Needed?

And you Madam, are Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Needed?

>>>Are they? They are making cuts but the government is still there.

>> Except for education, science, health, veterans, environment

> Kids aint going to school? No science is being done? The hospitals have closed and doctors have vanished? There are no veterans left!? THE ENVIRONMENT HAS VANISHED?!?!?!?

Hmm, back a couple of responses and we see:

>>>> @that one in the corner ... you seem to struggle with simply reading the post

And yet, Trygve Henriksen clearly points out that the government departments dealing with "education, science, health, veterans, environment" are being gutted and you respond as though Trygve Henriksen said that those portions of the real-world have somehow disappeared! A quite staggeringly bad misreading.

> Kids aint going to school?

I certainly hope they still are (although it would not surprise me in the least to find that some schools been forced to end (some) classes) but the quality of the education (some of them receive, or will be able to receive in the near future) has gone down, due to the Trump's actions.

> No science is being done?

Less science is being done (or will be done, once the funds currently banked by the labs runs dry, as the replenishment has been halted)

> The hospitals have closed and doctors have vanished?

You seem to be unaware of what the DoH is concerned with, particularly in the heavily privatised US health economy, where the (vast majority) of hospitals and doctors are corporate. I know, you are used to the NHS, but the US system is different. You may wish to learn what governmental - well, most correctly, federal, instutions such as "the CDC" are and how they have been affected by Musk. And what the long-term affects of that are going to be, as the information the CDC would usually handle is no longer provided to the privatised sector.

> There are no veterans left!?

Of course there are veterans left, but the services they rely on are being damaged. Meaning that there may well be fewer veterans left in the not too distant future, compared to what there ought to be (see also health - and environment).

> THE ENVIRONMENT HAS VANISHED?!?!?!?

Whilst one might heartily wish that some small portions of The Environment would suddenly vanish and leave certain parties gasping in a vacuum, the physical environment is indeed still present (congratulations on noticing that, Gold Star), but important parts of the US government that investigate it have been shuttered, or are on their last legs (refer back to the points about "science being done").

One simple line from Trygve Henriksen, seven words, none of them overly sesquipedalian and yet you struggled. Sigh. And the chaos of exclamation and question marks really does help to highlight how egregiously you misunderstood.

We'll skip over, for now (unless you decide to bring it up) the little matter of the your response to Trygve Henriksen's second sentence, as we are all so aware of how much you wish you were an American stereotype and, with that aim, are practising (oh, sorry "practicing") the inability to comprehend sarcasm or irony.

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@that one in the corner

"Hmm, back a couple of responses and we see:

>>>> @that one in the corner ... you seem to struggle with simply reading the post"

I did. And for some reason you appear to have decided to prove it again.

"And yet, Trygve Henriksen clearly points out that the government departments dealing with"

Nope. Trygve Henriksen responded to my comment (the first of this conversation) to claim DOGE was stripping everything away while keeping with my analogy (I disagree with him but it was a good comment). I responded that I disagreed because although so much is being cut the government still exists.

Yet Another Anonymous coward made a response claiming all these things were gone or getting rid of- "education, science, health, veterans, environment" which I responded that these public services are still there (which implies the government is still there providing it).

So lets assess your ability to read. Not only did you respond about the wrong commenter but also claiming either said something that wasnt written in the comments although potentially implied to which I responded. Damn man you really wanted to demonstrate you do not read.

This response is long enough without responding to each point you will surely not read or comprehend the responses to leading again to our usual exchanges (see above). As I said before I am not trying to insult you, it is a clear observation that you do not read before commenting.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Needed?

Curses. He is right! I copy'n'pasted the wrong commenter name when I quoted and then responded to the two lines, starting with "education, science, health, veterans, environment".

And in a fit of delirium (or possibly just a minor distraction, flicking between web pages) pressed CTRL-V in each of the placeholders left in the text, all without spotting the error.

Oh noes. A momentary slip of the mouse and I've totally destroyed my own arguments against any responses to the "education, science, health, veterans, environment" line!

Never mind that it is possible to read the entire comment, as it was written, with just a blank/placeholder instead of the poor Trygve's name (so sorry, man, didn't mean to misattribute to you) and take it apart on that basis - i.e. the meaning of the words.

> Not only did you respond about the wrong commenter

NOPE! I responded to YOU! I admit that I made a mistake in attributing a quote (again, sorry Trygve mate).

> This response is long enough without responding to each point

In other words, your only defence is to point out a misattribution, and feel that you can then use that to disparage the entire conversation, and that conveniently lets you of the hook from actually having to, you know, ENGAGE in any of the rebuttal.

PS

You know, it is allowed to point out a misattribution in a straightforward fashion, receive a simple calm reply and then carry on discussing the actual subject.

PPS

I really am sorry, Trygve, didn't mean to drag you into this.

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@that one in the corner

"Curses. He is right!"

It happens. I dont hold it against anyone, stuff like that happens. But you copy/pasted the name but still got the content incorrect too.

"> Not only did you respond about the wrong commenter

NOPE! I responded to YOU!"

Now look at what I quoted direct from you. You responded ABOUT the wrong commenter and you responded TO me. You replied to me and put the wrong name in with the accidental copy/paste. Sorry but this is again you misreading the comment.

"In other words, your only defence is to point out a misattribution"

My defence is there is no point responding to each of your points when you cant even read a simple comment. This is the second proof of you not even reading the comment you reply to in a row. Started because you wanted to dispute my previous observation that you do/can not read the comment you are responding to.

Please take a breath and dont rush your reading/response. I am still willing to discuss with you, I honestly am not trying to insult you. But it seems impossible to have a conversation with you because you dont read when is written (and I am very forgiving of mistakes. I am dyslexic and we all make mistakes constructing comments).

[sabroni]

Re: Needed?

https://www.unchartedblue.com/what-trump-is-stealing-from-you-part-2-2/

"If you're looking for real government efficiency, look no further than the 10-person team at the IRS that discovered $5 billion owed to the nation by wealthy tax cheats. That team is gone."

Oh yeah, this is all about efficiency. Efficiently routing tax money to a bunch of already wealthy but still incredibly greedy cunts.

[ecofeco]

Re: Needed?

That' exactly what it's about. That and (not so) petty revenge for Elmo Trump's persecution complex.

i.e. fugitive status

[heyrick]

Re: Needed?

"But the US is in debt and deficit."

And, yet, those golfing trips...

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@heyrick

"And, yet, those golfing trips..."

I know you think you are making a point there.

[ecofeco]

Re: Needed?

Oh Ivan, have you married your straw man yet? You really should put a ring on it.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Needed?

>> And, yet, those golfing trips...

> I know you think you are making a point there.

Well, one point being made is that you really are staggeringly incapable of looking things up on the Web:

Trump’s Florida golf weekends are costing taxpayers $18m, report says – as he hits the links again

The other point, of course, is that you see nothing at all wrong in Trump stealing millions of dollars from the tax payers.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Needed?

>Trump’s Florida golf weekends are costing taxpayers $18m, report says – as he hits the links again

Although compared to the financial consequences of him 'working' - they are a bargain

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Needed?

If all these cuts are legit, why are they lying about them? A big list here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2025/02/19/here-are-the-biggest-doge-hoaxes-and-inaccuracies-as-8-million-canceled-ice-contract-listed-at-8-billion/

As for finding and eliminating fraud and inefficiency, everyone wants that, that's why there's a government department that does that... oh, no, wait a minute, Musk is trying to shut that department down. https://www.gao.gov/blog/federal-government-made-estimated-162-billion-improper-payments-last-fiscal-year

Next question!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Needed?

> But the US is in debt and deficit.

If they really gave a shit about that, Trump wouldn't be spending $2 million a week playing golf.

[Anonymous Coward]

Another day, another Codejunky post

> "Lots of comments from the outside [..] You might like your morning starbucks/costa but when you are in huge debt and deficit is it a necessity?"

Englishman who- despite being a long-established fanboy of the pseudo-libertarian, laissez-faire right wing of US politics- doesn't even live there feels entitled to condescendingly lecture actual *Americans* about being on the "outside" and how their government should be run anyway?

Oh hai, Codejunky.

> "your morning starbucks/costa"

Are you aware that Costa isn't remotely as common in the US as it is in the UK- only a third as many branches in a country with five times the population?

That's not such a useful cultural reference if you want to patronise Americans on their own terms, and the kind of casual, uncaring sloppiness that marks you as an outsider.

[MachDiamond]

Re: Needed?

"You might like your morning starbucks/costa but when you are in huge debt and deficit is it a necessity?"

There's a lot of things like that. I rarely buy a take away coffee. My coffee maker can be programmed to have one ready for me right when I wake up and more to fill up the Thermos.

The first thing the smart people do when times are tight is start eliminating the luxuries. I was forced into a financial corner a number of years ago and it made me think that if I can get by without those luxuries, maybe I should continue getting by without them when my situation improves. That was the house and car paid off. Cable TV got the axe and instead I went to the used book store and bought paperbacks by the yard. I could get audiobooks for free from the library and movies too.

In the mean time, many entry level and flexible hours jobs will go away and that eliminates jobs up the line that support those businesses.

Cutting covid labs? Yes. Unless there's a decision to keep a small sub-set of them working on making sure the response is improved for the next time. There will be a next time as the population grows, world travel is just as easy and humans encroach further into habitats where new outbreaks of something are most likely to occur. The lowering birthrate in the first world is more than compensated by birthrates in the third which is bad from a disease standpoint.

[localzuk]

Re: Needed?

The US has a debt based economy. That debt is the money supply for the country.

Look at it like this. When someone goes to a bank and ask for a loan, the bank doesn't go into a vault and grab the money from a pile. Most banks do not have enough deposits to cover every loan they issue. The person who takes the loan promises to pay it back. It is money creation.

Sovereign debt is similar, it is a promise to pay it back. But it didn't exist in the first place. So, that debt is the creation of money. Without debt, you have no economy.

[codejunky]

Re: Needed?

@localzuk

"Without debt, you have no economy."

With too much debt you have no economy. This has been demonstrated throughout history worldwide. When we stop accepting that reality (see Brown 'no more boom and bust') the unforgiving facts end up smacking people really hard.

"The US has a debt based economy. That debt is the money supply for the country."

True, but also money is nothing more than a means of exchange, a promise. The value of that money is restricted by productivity. Too much money: high inflation, too little: and it restricts the economy's ability to grow.

"Look at it like this. When someone goes to a bank and ask for a loan, the bank doesn't go into a vault and grab the money from a pile. Most banks do not have enough deposits to cover every loan they issue. The person who takes the loan promises to pay it back. It is money creation."

But the banks books must balance every day to have sufficient deposits to meet the fractional loan requirements. If the bank loans out too much it goes bust. Or in a real world example in the last batch of Zimbabwe's highest denomination note cost more to print than the value of the note. Or the Weimar Republic where wheelbarrows holding the money were worth more than the money.

[FuzzyTheBear]

Cheering

Musk and Trump are cheering for China's demolition team .. who would have thunk that a felon and an illegal immigrant would be so kind to Pekin ? I cheer for China. GO CHINA GO !

Hack em to death. They deserve it.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Cheering

I suspect China are getting worried.

They want a degraded USA that isn't quite so globally dominant. They don't want a USA in a permanent recession with an impoverished population that can't buy cheap tat

[ecofeco]

Re: Cheering

But Russia does as a jab at China.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Cheering

But Russia is irrelevant unless they are currently invading you, you are an aging lefite who hasn't realized that communism ended, or you are infatuated with their leader

[MachDiamond]

Re: Cheering

"hey don't want a USA in a permanent recession with an impoverished population that can't buy cheap tat"

China's retail shops, Target, Walmart and Amazon, are all seeing repercussions and it's only just started.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Shouldn't be a problem getting paid

This is a red team penetrating a US govt department. If they are any good they should be able to monotize that.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

"waking up from a six-month coma"

Oh yes. A six-month isolation bubble would work too. But for now I stick with "I am so lucky to be on this side of the pond!". The number of orders from Ali(express|baba) might rise as a result of Trusk and Mump show...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "waking up from a six-month coma"

Screw Tesla, I'm going for BYD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "waking up from a six-month coma"

You're lucky.

We are in a country next on the US Army bucket-list and yet we have a 100% duty on Chinese EVs and just handed out $86M in subsidies to a Tesla dealer

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

The US are effectively adding 1000 billion $ to their debt every 100 days. The US government can't cut spending on military and health system (yeah, WTF?!) and, as usual, they are reducing taxes by 4000 billion $ in the following years. The rest of the world ain't stupid anymore so they're no longer buying USD as they were doing in the past which means printing new dollars doesn't seem to help much.

So the question is, where the US should get more money ? I'm interested in hearing your opinions.

Please note I'm not an US citizen so it's not me who voted you into this mess and I'm also not from an unfriendly state who might enjoy the show.

[Uncle Slacky]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

They can print as much money as they want/need.

[Blazde]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

Maybe this is the strategy. Ruin the US's reputation so much that a devaluation no longer seems unthinkable.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

well here's a shockingly new idea.

How about we tax the wealthy.

The stock market just took over $100 billion off Musk.

That could have bought a lot of useful stuff.

I can't believe you make out that this is such a difficult question.

Find the people hoarding money and stifling the economy. Tax them to fund stuff that helps the people doing the actual fucking work.

And OP, find some decent sources and do some reading, eh? Can I suggest "The ragged trousered philanthropist" for a start?

[ecofeco]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

LOL, then the rich can step up and pay their fair share.

And morons like you need to quite mistaking a government for a business and stop fellating the rich.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

They could easily significantly cut military spending. Look at the fraud and waste there!

Healthcare? The House has already passed a bill to cut that: https://www.ajmc.com/view/house-passes-budget-resolution-cutting-billions-from-medicaid-funding

How about they stop subsidising Trumps golf trips ($2 million a week) https://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/is-donald-trump-perfecting-his-golf-game-on-us-taxpayers-dime-president-reportedly-spent-millions-on-13-rounds-in-just-48-days/articleshow/118819582.cms

And stop subsidising space-x to blow up rockets in the sky.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

>They could easily significantly cut military spending

If they only had 19 carrier battle groups instead of 20, Canada could burn the White House again

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Sorry, folks, but you should look at the facts

Hey Elon Musk,

Want a high profile scalp for DOGE? How does saving $2 million per week sound?

See above.

[JLV]

Well, to paraphrase a certain, very clever, user hereabouts:

"Mr. President, so much winning against Chinese espionage! Now they can't possibly repeat the 2015 OPM hack!"

Ooops, I let myself get carried away and actually wrote too much info. I'll keep it to "winning!" next time. Sorry, wuz dehydrated cuz forgot my thirst mutilator so off my game.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Poachers turned gamekeepers

Trump can always call his buddy from Trump 1.0 days - 'Little Rocket Man' to supply his cyber security experts at a good rate to help secure US networks. Definitely cheaper than what Putin can offer

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Poachers turned gamekeepers

'Little Rocket Man' ?

Elton John does cyber now ?

Obviously 1,that government "your next job is in cyber" campaign really really worked and 2, Cyber must really pay well compared to being a pop star

[scottro]

Well, now, the latest I hear is that Kennedy thinks everyone should get measles--so, let's start infecting Musk, Trump, and Kennedy. After all, that's what they're preaching right? Next, the Senators who voted to approve Kennedy.

Lawdy, lawdy, we have really gone into a Kakistocracy. As Putin agents in place, we're doing a great job for him. I hope you Trumptards are proud.

[DS999]

Trump responding to Putin's orders

Putin doesn't want the US to have good cybersecurity, so his guys don't have to work too hard to break in and check that his orange errand boy is doing his job properly.

[Ian Johnston]

Mr Putin is certainly getting value for money.

[IGnatius T Foobar !]

Excellent

Cutting government waste is a good thing. It may not be pleasant, but it has to happen. You can't run trillion-dollar deficits forever.

[Evaluator]

Oh no. Elon knows tech better than you.

Did I hear a noise from the peanut gallery?

[[e-mail]]

CISA's statement on the "cancellation"

https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/statement-cisas-red-team

CISA’s Red Team is among the best in the world and remains laser focused on helping our federal and critical infrastructure partners identify and mitigate their most significant vulnerabilities and weaknesses. This has not changed.

Contrary to inaccurate reporting, CISA has not “laid off” our Red Team. CISA has taken action to terminate contracts where the agency has been able to find efficiencies and eliminate duplication of effort. As good stewards of the taxpayer dollar and in accordance with good fiscal governance practices, CISA regularly reviews contracts across the agency to ensure that we have the capabilities that we need and that we are allocating resources in ways that make the most impact. This was a contract action that did not impact the employment status of CISA personnel.

CISA’s Red Teams continue their work without interruption. The team works directly with network defenders, system administrators, and other technical staff to address strengths and weaknesses across critical infrastructure networks and systems. They continue to assist organizations in refining their detection, response, and hunt capabilities to protect the nation’s critical infrastructure from a range of threats.

[codejunky]

Re: CISA's statement on the "cancellation"

@[e-mail]

But that doesnt read as well as 'Orange man bad'.

[W.S.Gosset]

Re: CISA's statement on the "cancellation"

"CISA’s Red Team is among the best in the world ... laser focused"

...but failed to mention that mission critical election kit which they "tested" and "proved" to be un!crackable!,

gives anyone root access if they plug in a keyboard.

Plus has actually _worse_ security holes, if you can believe that. Not joking.

"best!in!the!world!"

Never mind sacking them, there's grounds for them repaying every dollar they took in salary.

[Bryan W]

Doesn't add up.

It takes this company 100 ppl to do penn tests? Most of it is freaking automated AND scales! The rest is reading CVEs and writing scripts. There are probably like 3-5 true hackers and 95 government ticks here. I despise most of what Trump and his handler Musk are doing, but sacking a bloated contractor running the same automated crap over and over and charging millions for it does not make the list.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Doesn't add up.

What automated? Someone has to write that automation. CVE ? And who writes the tests for a CVE? Especially those not yet published? And for the stuff which is automated, you still need the people to run those test, understand those tests, evaluate those tests, and then push the right actions to get it secure. Do you know how many they actually run? Do you know how many ask them to scan? Your statement has more holes than a slice of a sponge. Only those without knowledge can boast such things. Typical DK...

[J31]

J

I'm reading this and everyone has such political bias. I would think the readership of something CISA related there would more grownups involved than childish views and bias. Innovation happens when problems get though. Time to innovate and make things better and use more streamlined processes. It's is that to much to ask for?

Now get to work

[Dave 13]

Obvious?

It's obvious, at least it is to me, that the Trump/Musk DOGE wrecking ball is intended to isolate and weaken the US. No other explanation or platitudes about 'efficiency' or 'savings' could possibly account for the wanton destruction of critical services, not to mention the disruption of lives caused by this.

[W.S.Gosset]

Is this parody?

>election security

Several hundreds of federal employee "experts": "prove" that eg the election machines are perfect: ultra-secure, uncrackable.

Independent expert: you get root access if you plug in a keyboard. Worse, deliberate creation of a "bug" lets anyone in head office hijack the whole state in 5 seconds, invisibly.

They should all have been sacked a very long time ago. They are beyond incompetent. They are apparently deep into malfeasance territory.

[Jou (Mxyzptlk)]

Re: Is this parody?

> Several hundreds of federal employee "experts": "prove" that eg the election machines are perfect: ultra-secure, uncrackable.

You mean all those technical experts who insisted in a paper trail in all cases to make it ultra-secure, uncrackable? The "experts" you cite were "chosen ones", non technical persons, management and propaganda level (not the good management, which does exist).