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back to article Ex-NSA grandee says Trump's staff cuts will 'devastate' America's national security

Looming staffing cuts to America's security and intelligence agencies, if carried out, would "have a devastating effect on cybersecurity and our national security," former NSA bigwig Rob Joyce has told House representatives. Speaking on Wednesday to the House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, Joyce said the …

  1. Ex IBMer

    Not an issue

    Trump has clearly indicated that he wants the USA to stop actively working against the Russiens from a cyber perspective. All the chineese need to do is start working with the Russian cyber teams and they can slide straight on through, with full presidential endorsement.

    Easy.

    1. Yes Me

      Re: Not an issue

      There is the subtlety that the US dictator has only claimed to have stopped offensive activity, not defensive. So what that have allegedly stopped is something they were never allegedly doing in the first place. There's much smoke and mirrors in the NSA's world,

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      He's a Russian asset

      There's really no denying it at this point. Every single action he's taken has been in Putin's interest. He hasn't taken one action, either internationally or domestically, that is against Putin's interests. Putin couldn't have gotten a better deal if he'd been elected president of the US himself.

      1. Blogitus Maximus
        Gimp

        Re: He's a Russian asset

        The old golden shower kompromat must be real.

        Putin seems to have grabbed Trump by the pussy.

        Fanboi, coz Trump is Putin's biggest fan obviously.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: He's a Russian asset

          Nah, Putin has evidence that Trump is really gay.

          1. R Soul Silver badge

            Re: He's a Russian asset

            Nah. If Trump really was gay, he'd have much better hair and make-up.

        2. DS999 Silver badge

          Re: He's a Russian asset

          It can't be the pee tapes. It has to be something more. I think he truly is a Russian asset - groomed since the 80s, since he made public statements defending them even when they were the USSR - and always sold a lot more properties to Russians than anyone else in NYC despite being a rather minor player in the NYC real estate game compared to some of the heavy hitters who had better properties that would have been more attractive all else being equal.

          I think he supported their money laundering, and they probably put him into compromising positions in the past. REAL compromising positions, like setting him up with an underage prostitute or something and have it on video.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Deluded.

        A) If he's an agent, he's owned outright by the Zionists, 230 Million of Zionist funding [1], and then delivering 12 billion to the US backed Zionist State Terror group[2]

        B) Trump is NewMoney, he's not in on the OldMoney long grifts of weapons contracts, so he wants to cut a new Grift on which he gets the dough cutting out the Germans/Brits/French.

        C) Stopping a US Proxy [3] war that the US is unlikely to win, is in the interests of the US.

        Trump is just mask off, so far Genocidal like Joe, but not suicidal or unrealistic about chance of beating Russia.

        [1] https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/whos-miriam-adelson-the-rabid-zionist-and-trumps-biggest-donor-18220931

        [2] https://www.state.gov/military-assistance-to-israel/

        [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4XJ_IA_MOk

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not an issue

      You don't get it do you?

      1. What is said in public is not always what happens.

      2. Trump throws things out there as positioning.

      3. He sees China as the real threat and wants Russia on our side.

      4. Russia is pretty much culturally aligned and happy to work with the West if we let them.

      5. Of course we will spy on each other friend or foe.

      1. Blazde Silver badge

        Re: Not an issue

        He sees China as the real threat

        I used to think that (and they are), but he's not acting like it any more from a security perspective. He's just fixated on trade deficit and fentanyl, both of which have their importance but for the large part are just economic realities and not the result of intentionally threatening policy by CCP. The cyber war is, and he doesn't have answers for it other than cuts to agencies on the front-line that are already underfunded relative to their adversaries.

        He probably thinks he can 'make a deal' and just pay off any threat to the US like he did with NYC mobsters. "You can have Taiwan as long as you promise to keep selling us semiconductors. Oh you want Korea too? Well we can talk about that. Korea owe the US a lot of money, did you know that?"

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Blazde - Re: Not an issue

          Trade deficit and tariff war is a move intended to bring all countries under US command followed by order to stop doing business with China or else... Mexico already swallowed it.

          As for Russia, US are desperately trying to put a wedge between them and China by trying to divert the flow of cheap resources that make Chinese economy so efficient and prosperous.

          Come on, guys, the hate toward Russia has steadily grown since the end of WW2 and nothing short of its destruction will satisfy the US. Keeping their eyes on Russia distracted the US from the rise of China as a superpower. Now US has to chose the enemy they will prefer to deal with first so they're cutting some slack to Russia and move their might to the South-East Asia.

          In my personal opinion, the actual President of the US is crazy but not that stupid. His weakness is just that he doesn't want to work with the deep state (I just use these two words only because it's shorter than a list of groups, agencies, think tanks and individuals having an agenda of their own) and this is where the danger is.

          It's just an opinion among others that's all.

          1. Blazde Silver badge

            Re: @Blazde - Not an issue

            I largely agree, there is a good chance that Russia could follow other Eastern European countries into the 'Western' fold sooner rather than later, and that would be beneficial for all parties, except China. You only need to talk to Russians (especially those who came of age post-Soviet era) to see the cultural similarities. They're a bit big-headed because of their country's history, but no more so than Yanks or Brits, and no less hungry for freedom. Putin is the obstacle and the one that gets the hate, not Russians in general, and he does what he does precisely because he fears a pro-European revolution in Russia. He had years of opportunity to align with Europe & NATO if he wanted but his paranoia and intolerance for other ex-Warsaw Pact countries shaking off Russian influence prevented it. He threw what few cards he had left away finally in 2022. It won't happen now until he's gone, and then it's a roll of the dice who takes over.

            The trouble with the idea that this is Trump's goal is that he's not showing it. Almost 50 months into his presidency it's wishful to think it is. He uses his relationship with Putin for petty domestic gain. There is no grand strategy playing out, it's just minute-by-minute divisiveness. Any opportunity to claim the media are lying is taken. Any opportunity to call his Democrat predecessors stupid isn't missed. I'm not sure it's in his gift anyway but you can't pull off a historic realignment of a recent superpower while you're fighting a pointless culture war at home, and everybody outside your country - particularly Putin - thinks you're just a numpty with a fragile ego who can be easily manipulated. I don't think he's stupid either in a general sense but he is out of his depth when it comes to geopolitics because it's not what he spent any part of his life studying. And unlike, say Reagan, Trump indeed doesn't listen closely enough to those who have spent their life studying it (with differing agendas sure, but still a crowd-source of pro-US agendas). If he comes out next week with "Putin has agreed to stand down and take exile in North Korea as part of a peace treaty" I'll eat my hat, but seriously?

            If anyone had this strategy it was Macron. He stayed engaged with Putin long after others had given up, and he's always understood that you need to negotiate from a position of strength and respect to both build trust and defeat Putin's manipulative tendencies. But he couldn't pull it off and even today Putin is burning bridges insulting him. He'll be long gone before Putin's successor arrives but whoever picks up that torch has a shot at bringing Russia in from the cold then. I'm sure there'll be plenty of candidates because the stakes are high.

            Trump keeps getting elected because people think there must be some strategy behind the crazy. There isn't. He's just created that fiction by fronting the Apprentice, commissioning a book, and repeating unachievable aims over and over confidently. He's the world's most successful propagandist, nothing more.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not an issue

        > 2. Trump throws things out there as positioning

        Mostly he throws his rattle, sometimes blanky too.

      3. FIA Silver badge

        Re: Not an issue

        You don't get it do you?

        [...]

        4. Russia is pretty much culturally aligned and happy to work with the West if we let them.

        The problem used to be that we cared about things like opressive dictatorships and illegal invasions and championed ideas like democracy and freedom.

        Now it's all about the money; fuck the people. (...and unfortunatly for most Americans, I suspect that includes you too. :( )

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not an issue

          >The problem used to be that we cared about things like opressive dictatorships and illegal invasions

          We used to do them if it advanced our cause against Communist Russia

        2. Blazde Silver badge

          Re: Not an issue

          The problem used to be that we cared about things like opressive dictatorships and illegal invasions

          Illegal invasions yes, because they're destabilising, but the West has never been very concerned with oppressive dictators who stay in their lane because there's always some other oppressive dictatorship that's doing illegal invasions to care about more. It's an affront to the ideals but that's the reality. The trouble for Putin is that buddying up to the West as a Saudi-style oppressive dictator would have just gotten him overthrown by his people, because of the cultural similarities (to be fair the West might have helped that a bit, but you can't catalyse a revolution that isn't already fertile). So he needed to create a bogeyman in NATO in order to maintain his power.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Russia is pretty much culturally aligned

        With the KKK.

      5. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Not an issue

        >4. Russia is pretty much culturally aligned and happy to work with the West if we let them.

        They might be evil child-kidnapping civilian-murdering oligarchs, but at least their eyelids don't look weird

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Best Interests of the US

    The CIA, NSA, et. al. have people smart and experienced enough to have learned where the threats are coming from, and hopefully will continue working to block or mitigate them, even though they have to do this quietly, so as not to incur the wrath of the US' Fearless Leader.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Best Interests of the US

      You're suggesting the cuts were for policy reasons and the people will remain.

      The cuts are for cost cutting reasons and the people are being let go and buildings/facilities being sold.

      It's difficult to quietly continue your work when your employer makes it impossible.

      Unless you decide to work independently. Or for anyone prepared to pay you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Best Interests of the US

        Every cloud has a silver lining. Whilst the USA is busy weakening itself, alienating its allies and firing its best and brightest it is an opportunity to hire those same folk who I'm sure would appreciate being appreciated.

        1. Little Mouse

          Re: Best Interests of the US

          Hah - The job market for all those ex-Security/Intelligence agency staff (some of whom will likely have an axe to grind) must be a bit of a minefield. Are those vacancies real? Who could you trust?

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Best Interests of the US

            I imagine many of the organisations wishing to hire the former spooks for 'commercial ventures' have rather robust HR policies in place

      2. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

        Re: Best Interests of the US

        @ AC 6 March 04:07

        It was my understanding that the cuts are allegedly being made for cost-cutting reasons, but are truly being made as an exercise-in-wielding-power, and/or, in some cases, as an expression of official policy. "Hmm ... whom do I dislike ... today?" (Throws dart at dartboard covered with names of government agencies and departments.)

    2. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: Best Interests of the US

      Well, they need to block the threat, alright. And it's orange.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The CIA, NSA, et. al. have people smart and experienced enough

      Where have you been for the past month? Those fuckers have either been fired or are gonna be fired. Loyalty to the supreme commander is all that is required for those posts now.

      You voted for this, remember?

    4. Phil Koenig

      Re: Best Interests of the US

      So you're saying if I cut your staff by 50%, remove the best and most skilled workers, eviscerate the budget, install an ignoramus political lackey as director who now prioritizes going after the Orange Troll's domestic political enemies rather than actually fighting and defending against the country's geopolitical adversaries and destroy the agency's overall morale in the process, such crippled organizations can magically rise above all that just by "working quietly"?

      Please expand on this magical technique of yours.

  3. HuBo Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Defend Forward

    I like Galante and Joyce's answers to Tokuda's question about adversaries at 1:29:00 that indicates how both China and Russia have been key cyber adversaries for over a decade and it's critical to maintain ability and persistence to counter them (both) in cyberspace, especially through the defend forward strategy.

    (and sanctions!)

  4. UnknownUnknown Silver badge

    Tax Deductible

    “ Dr Stewart agreed, and pointed to the "rip and replace" policy of removing Chinese equipment from telecommunications networks. She agreed with Joyce that these programs to remove Middle Kingdom tech from key parts of the United States need to be properly funded, or the results could be very expensive for those having to replace their gear.”

    100% tax deductible investment reinstated… so US Taxpayer funding it.

    .. as will be much of ‘didn’t cost the US a dime TSMC $100bn and ‘thanks Tim’ Apple’s $500bn. I guess they can reclaim/deduct the effective cost of the tariffs on all the IT from China in amongst that too.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It was devastated already by the criminal gang supposedly run by Biden. Maybe less corruption and graft will lead to better security or should we leave it to men in dresses?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why does it matter so much to you if men wear dresses?

      Does it trigger some deep, repressed urge that you've never been able to find the courage to embrace?

      Perhaps you keep a secret closet filled with frocks and hate yourself for wanting to look pretty when you wear one?

      Or do you perhaps sneak into your mommy's closet and wear her clothes when she's out of the house?

      1. BartyFartsLast Silver badge

        The trans people I know are tougher than any cowardly little skidmark who tries to shame them, purely because they've run the gauntlet of cowardly little skidmarks who tried to shame them and made it through to be the person they are now.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        >Why does it matter so much to you if men wear dresses?

        Well it wasn't great under J Edgar Hoover and McCarthy - but I don't think that means all drag acts are right wing psychopaths

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      > should we leave it to men in dresses?

      Totally agree we should leave security to real highlanders.

    3. kmorwath Silver badge

      No, they're are destroying government jobs so they can soon replace it with lucrative contracts for the private sector. NSA in trouble? Palantir will have an AI to sell for billions to replace it. Without any corruption check, of course, since those rules and people enforcing them are being removed as well.

      Remember Robocop's OCP? That's what they would like to be.

    4. Ian Johnston Silver badge

      I think it's time for your adrenochrome injection.

    5. LBJsPNS Silver badge

      Every time I see a comment like this, I simply assume that the poster is terrified that:

      He'll meet a transgirl and fall hard.

      She'll have a bigger... package.

      She'll be a top.

      And He'll love it. Won't be able to get enough.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I am intrigued why those who are so avowedly opposed to 'men in dresses' keep demanding they use male bathrooms, use make changing rooms

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    should we leave it to men in dresses?

    J. Edgar Hoover would fit in very well with the MAGA crowd.

  7. Ian Johnston Silver badge

    Well, duh. What's Putin paying him for?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    hmm

    People who want money say they need the money, thats a shock. And is this the same 'intelligence' that participated in the Trump-Russia hoax that idiots like to continue to pretend is real? And finally at what point did people decide they liked the surveillance state?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: hmm

      Curious minds want to know, what do you actually get out of it, does it give you a little tingle, somehow make you feel happy or validated in your little incel fantasy world knowing almost all the commenters here think you're an immature little troll who gets his jollies posting ridiculous crap like that?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: hmm

        @AC

        "Curious minds want to know, what do you actually get out of it"

        Obviously no answers. Guessing you cant think of an actually valid response to my fairly easy comment.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: hmm

          You don't get answers for obvious and really poor trolling attempts because they're beneath contempt and answering/engaging just helps you push more bullshit into the arena.

          However, I'm curious why you've been posting that sort of crap for so long.

          Is it that you've some sort of obsessive disorder and/or you're being paid to spread the kind of garbage you post, any chance you'll let us all know which it is one day?

        2. Gary Stewart Silver badge

          Re: hmm

          "Obviously no answers"

          Well, at least none that you are willing to admit to which is completely understandable.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Thumb Down

            Re: hmm

            @Gary Stewart

            "Well, at least none that you are willing to admit to which is completely understandable."

            You seem very confused, try reading the conversation (mine is the first post of the conversation thread). The coward spouted nonsense but couldnt answer (god knows why they feel the desperate need to respond in that case but whatever). So its nothing to do with me providing answers, I asked the question.

            Try again when you finish reading, if you of course have anything of value to say.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: hmm

        Gives them something to giggle about with their online friends, whilst playing Hearts Of Iron?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: hmm

      Trump/Russia Hoax, you say?

      The Russia Dictator and the Russia Dicktaster?

    3. Gary Stewart Silver badge

      Re: hmm

      "Trump-Russia hoax"

      1) A republican run committee, Republican "little" Marco Rubio (currently the US Secretary of State) was the chair of that committee, said there was Russian interference in the 2016 election.

      2) There are videos of Trump asking for Russian help in the 2016 election

      3) The over 100 contacts between people in Trumps election campaign and Russians tied to the Kremlin are well documented.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: hmm

        @Gary Stewart

        Steele dossier a lie. FBI opened an investigation against its own protocols and without any viable reason. A lawyer broke the law changing the wording of an official email to get authorisation for the investigation to go further. The facts came out and yet idiots still claim Russian collusion.

        If you want to swear black is white and white is black that is your problem. The facts are not on your side.

  9. Version 1.0
    IT Angle

    I love these TRUMP stories

    Because I have MAKA the "Make America Kittens Again" feature added to the web viewer. So I see pictures of Kittens and Cat and can ignore all the posts!

  10. ShortStuff
    Facepalm

    NSA Spook Defends NSA Spooks

    Once an intelligence official, always an intelligence official. I would believe this spook as far as I could throw him. If they were good at their jobs they would have caught the Chinese spy driver that Senator Dianne Feinstein had for years and years. If they were good at their jobs they would have caught the Chinese spy that Representative Eric Swalwell was sleeping with. No, they are either inept or corrupt and need to be cleaned out from top to bottom.

  11. SuperG

    Referring to Musk as an "Eminence grease". SCORE!

  12. Libertarian Voice

    The TDS is strong on here.

    For decades, if not centuries in some cases, government departments have demanded more and more money with promises that they will be better and more efficient and provide higher quality of service if only they had more funding. Notwithstanding relentless funding increases and the relentless increases in taxation coupled with the expansion of government to such an extent that it has become morbidly obese absolutely nothing has improved whatsoever and many things have got worse.

    Trumps oratory articulation is absolutely appalling but he is literate enough for us to understand what he wants to do. Unlike his predecessors however, what he says he will do he actually succeeds in doing; No procrastination unlike every other politician in the world, he just gets on with it. His pulling out for the ludicrous Paris accord is was enough on its own to make him better than any other leader.

    I am perfectly happy putting up with him sounding a bit incoherent and ever so slightly batchit crazy as long as he does what he says he will do. I really don't like the way he had so much praise for Starmer, but only time will tell if he really does think he is good or, far more likely, he thinks he can use him.

  13. Jaybus

    Chicken little said so

    The staffing at CISA was increased by over 1300 (a 25% increase) since 2022 by the Biden administration. Cutting that back by 140 is not going to cause the sky to fall.

  14. Mitoo Bobsworth Silver badge

    America had plenty of chances to stop the stupidity...

    ... and blew them all. Russia & China will be pissing themselves laughing for years to come.

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