back to article UK government's cloud strategy: Pay more, get less, blame vendor lock-in?

UK central government departments need to better align their requirements in cloud computing to get better deals out of the big providers, MPs heard this week. Speaking to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), Andrew Forzani, chief commercial officer in the Cabinet Office, said that if the government wanted to use its spending …

  1. Like a badger

    Not just "digital" skills

    Whilst the civil service is lacking in digital skills for reasons we know well (and which the CS is still doing little to address) there's an equally pressing matter of lack of applied commercial skills. Basic stuff like having a detailed understanding of the business model of the suppliers - how, where and when do they make money? Do they have a track record of fleecing customers in general and the public sector in particular? Making sure that public procurement rules don't result in an unsuitable contractor being appointed, procurement officers having the power to stop rushed contract awards when requirements haven't been defined (especially when some minister is pressing for a contract to be awarded solely so they can announce "progress". The civil service also need to both hold officials to account for failures, and recognise and reward those who are competent.

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Not just "digital" skills

      It is also bizarre that government is allowed to accepts bids from foreign corporations. Not only this doesn't benefit our economy, but it makes government vulnerable to whims of political forces of countries the bidders come from.

      1. Like a badger

        Re: Not just "digital" skills

        Well yes, but the UK government are slaves to the idea that the market must provide, and unfettered competition gives the greatest benefits. The UK still applies much the same rules as the EU on public procurement, but it's just strange that the same rules in France result in mostly French suppliers, in Germany results in mostly German suppliers. There's some exceptions, but it's a fair generalisation.

        Meanwhile, our government (local or national) happily export jobs and money and claim it's "best value".

        1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

          Re: Not just "digital" skills

          Mostly because the people in government never run a business and have no clue about the economy, how it works. Local business when they make profit, they tend to spend or invest it locally. Foreign business tends to shift as much profit as possible offshore, to minimise tax and they are more likely to subcontract to other foreign corporations rather than local ones.

          So maybe it will be "cheaper", but because those companies pay less tax and it ignores the fact that nothing will trickle down.

        2. The man with a spanner Bronze badge

          Re: Not just "digital" skills

          Is't the UK goverment big enough to run its own Data Centres? Backups in London, Cardiff and Glasgow woukd by harmonious?

          1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

            Re: Not just "digital" skills

            But then how do you get on the procurement dinners etc.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not just "digital" skills

            Yes, it's big enough, but is it clever enough?

        3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "but it's just strange that the same rules in France result in mostly French suppliers,"

          Rules, yes.

          Application, no.

          Specifically the ones about local content.

          The argument is that if civil servants specify a level of local involvement then that is a de-facto industrial strategy which the govt in power (Conservative for 74 of the last 100 years in the UK) views as a complete no-no.

          The alternative is that the Minister would have to make a decision, and (much worse) defend that decision in Parliament.

          And as we all know in politics fewer decisions made ---> easier life*

          *A principle the Johnson built his whole career on.

        4. airbrush

          Re: Not just "digital" skills

          Not in cloud procurement, we're not alone in this

  2. ptribble

    Wrong question

    Why on earth is the government using *any* cloud provider? If you think about data sovereignty, it ought to be in-house. And any government project is way above the threshold at which cloud financials stop making sense.

    1. elsergiovolador Silver badge

      Re: Wrong question

      If you ever been to a meeting with a large cloud provider sales team, they can pull the wool over eyes of non technical stakeholders. They are very well prepared and they can answer any doubt with reassurances, sweeteners so that after the meeting stakeholders feel like they got a deal of their life. It's very difficult to talk them out of it and impossible if they have VC money to splash.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Wrong question

      Governments cozy with corporations?

      Never heard of conflict of interest? I suppose not since it's now quite legal these days. Well, for the right people. (hint: that's not you and I)

      Now stop bothering your betters about rules and laws and how they spend your tax money, peasant.

    3. Edward Ashford

      Re: Wrong question

      They (Cabinet Office) could at least mandate all implementation to be vendor agnostic, then at least the option of pulling it in house can be waved at the vendors.

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "I think what we need to do in the center"

    She's in the GB Civil Service. I'm sure she meant "centre".

  4. elsergiovolador Silver badge

    Krasnov

    Given that Krasnov can at any given moment give an executive order to stop US companies providing services to the UK, the continued awards for foreign corporations are bizarre.

    Surely British government should be seeking to grow domestic businesses?

    We are never going to have our own AWS and other corporations at forefront of technology if subsequent governments piss at British business.

    1. Carl W

      Re: Krasnov

      Didn't we have UKCloud who went bust after HMG dropped them in favour of AWS?

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The UK government HAS to outsource

    The UK government is incapable of managing any IT.

    It's been proven many times over the years.

    So we will pay over the top.

    (Anyone sensible would have noticed that "in house" actually costs less. So clearly cost is NOT the deciding factor)

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Which Clusterf**k Do You Have In Mind?

    Quote: "...get a number of departments aligned around requirements..."

    Joke Alert: We've had twenty years of "agile". "Requirements" are SO twentieth century......SO "waterfall".......SO redolent of despised "project management"............

    So.....why is anyone surprised in 2025 that "requirements" are a problem? No one has been doing "requirements" for twenty years.............

    ..........nevermind the obvious joke about getting multiple civil servants across multiple departments to agree even about the time of day!!!!!

    So.....it would not matter if all of this was done in an "in house" data centre.....as others have noted above......it would still be a clusterf**k!!!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Which Clusterf**k Do You Have In Mind?

      It would not be a clusterfuck, it would be a number of independent points of fuckery so that there's no resilience.

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