back to article DARPA seeks ideas for 'large bio-mechanical space structures'

The US Department of Defense's research arm, DARPA, has put out a Request for Information (RFI) for "large bio-mechanical space structures." It all sounds a bit like science-fiction, and DARPA has pursued more than its fair share of wild ideas in the past – the autonomous tank is a particular favorite of this writer – but the …

  1. doug_bostrom

    What fool would waste time on an RFP from the US federal government at this juncture?

    1. Like a badger

      Anyone that's a proven arselicker to the Orange Jesus?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Even those kind of people prefer customers who don't abrogate their contracts on a whim.

  2. mostly average

    You can't create matter

    Fleshy meat bags must eat to grow, and that matter has to come from somewhere. Cthulhu will have to learn to eat space rocks if he's not on an earthling diet.

    1. Howard Sway Silver badge

      Re: You can't create matter

      And to grow a tree, requires the tree's weight in CO2 and water to be converted by photosynthesis, which will have to be sent up from Earth. In other words, it's easier to just send up a grown tree than send up all the stuff to grow one.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You can't create matter

        ... not to mention the stuff found in soil (calcium, sodium, magnesium, iron, manganese, sulfur, chlorine, silicon) and in bat shit fertilizers if needed (nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium).

        1. Eclectic Man Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: You can't create matter

          Article states:

          the feasibility of "growing" a huge biological structure in microgravity rather than having to haul up the building blocks from Earth.

          The agency is looking for structures more than 500 meters long. It envisages uses including vast nets for orbital debris collection,

          So maybe it would be a space scavenger, like the space-ship 'Red Dwarf' in the UK TV series of that name. It could then build the large structure from satellites and satellite debris other people have launched (there are a a lot of Starlink satellites in orbit). But OTOH, just getting something that could gather space junk, process it and build it into something useful would be very difficult.

          So, on the whole I am, not convinced this has been all that well thought through.

      2. Bebu sa Ware
        Windows

        Re: You can't create matter

        "And to grow a tree, requires the tree's weight in CO2 and water to be converted by photosynthesis, which will have to be sent up from Earth"

        Or from the Moon which does have water and minerals but not sure about carbon though but you would perform most of the operations on the lunar surface or at least in lunar orbit before deployment to Earth orbit or wherever.

        I am guessing that this is more about bulk than mass (L3 v. M)

        Sending up prefabricated components still has a volume inefficiency I suspect.

        One idea is to break everything down to minimal elements something like Meccano™ with a solar powered, automated orbital assembler to construct, and later repair, the required structures with the potential to later disassemble and reuse the components.

        This is (very) little like biology where basic units like sugars (glucose), amino acids, fatty acids are mixed and matched to produce complex structures much of which will be broken down and reused.

        I suspect much of the crap that emaninates from DARPA (and the US MIC, or the US in general) is to test said crap's mural adhesivity. ;)

    2. Bebu sa Ware
      Coat

      Re: You can't create matter

      E=mc2 says you can. While we have managed to let that djinni out of the bottle putting it back into the bottle has so far eluded us to any significant extent. ;)

      1. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

        Re: You can't create matter

        E=mc2 says how much energy would be needed if you could, not whether you can.

        Bear in mind that the speed of light squared is a very big number. If you had that sort of energy to spare, it'd just be simpler to use it to lob stuff into orbit, no?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: You can't create matter

          Yeah but, where's the fun in that???? 8-D

          1. Elongated Muskrat Silver badge

            Re: You can't create matter

            Bear in mind, that sort of energy can lob things into orbit very fast and it's not necessarily Earth orbit we're talking about here, but solar orbit. I can certainly think of one or two things I'd like to launch into the sun. That could be fun...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

    ...and thinking it is a documentary?

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

      I wondered if someone read Niven's The Integral Trees?

      1. John Gamble

        Re: Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

        Or the formed coral houses in Niven's A Gift From Earth.

        Honestly, that one always intrigued me, though it's probably more of a planet-bound structure.

      2. that one in the corner Silver badge

        Re: Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

        I was thinking more Brian Aldiss, "Hothouse": plants in every ecological niche, with pinwheel trees in orbit that scoop your giant beetleoid out of the atmosphere and fling it towards the moon.

        Was never quite convinced by the morels, that was a bit too much "similarity magic" even for a younger me to accept.

        Now, if they were willing to go for something a bit more animal-based (as the "skin" example hints?), then John Varley's "Titan"/"Wizard"/"Demon" gives us more deliberately engineered organisms ("Hothouse" was an all-natural environment).

      3. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

        Re: Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

        Can you fit in the Silver Suit?

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

      Apparently they haven't all been fired yet.

    3. Kane
      Alien

      Re: Ha s someone at DARPA been watching "The Expanse"

      I was just thinking, "this all sounds a bit...'Laconian'"

  4. Handlebars

    Bio-mechanical spaceships? I worship His Shadow. Long may he reign.

    1. that one in the corner Silver badge

      All night by the Zev Zev. All night by the Zev I lay.

  5. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Alien

    We all know where

    this ends.

    "It was jet black. A shade of black so deep your eye just kinda slides off it. And it shimmered when you looked at it. A spider big as death and twice as ugly. And when it flies past, it's like you hear a scream in your mind."

    1. Rattus

      Re: We all know where

      +1 B5 was just top

    2. James Dore

      Re: We all know where

      Who are you? What do you want?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: We all know where

        I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this.

        1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          Re: We all know where

          YES

          the only person in the whole series who got what he wanted

    3. Fr. Ted Crilly Silver badge

      Re: We all know where

      With black light lasers in it's eyes, really black like priests socks black, not really really dark blue...

  6. HuBo Silver badge
    Headmaster

    The bioItalian bioJob bioSpace Project bioProposal

    This will definitely require a systems approach imho. For a large bioenclosure, one needs structural biosupports and biocloth, along with a method for bioassembly. Engineering sophomores have already learnt how to design (calcs and all), and construct, massive bridges out of biospaghetti and it seems that the approach could surely be applied in space, without the extra students loading. So part of the overall device here will be that subsystem that grows biowheat in space, and converts it to biospaghetti. Bonus: you can eat the leftover biomaterials if desired!

    For the cloth part, as with properly comfortable underwear, it's clear that the best approach is to employ silkworms, which have a long tradition in both Japanese and Chinese space programs, and generally have a great future in space. Susbsytem #2 then is that where silkworms are grown, their silk is harvested, and the relevant very large underwear textile cloth is woven. Bonus: you can eat the leftover biomaterials here too, if desired!

    The matter of bioassembly of the biostructure and biocloth, in space, is only slightly more challenging. The trick there is obviously to engage controllable extremophiles that can withstand the harsh conditions of outer space, for a sufficient amount of time, as they diligently perform their intricate task of rapid directional deployment and growth. For this purpose, the proposed project endeavors to combine the tried-and-tested extreme environment resistance and perfect space-looks of Burning Man extremophile Triops, with the speed and agility of solar-powered, remote-controlled cyborg cockroaches.

    The biospace-efficient hybrid organisms will be biodeveloped using standard gene-gun interbreeding techniques, at our certified BioSafety Level-3 secret facility, under the resolute desk, again (as usual). Extensive testing will be performed above the resolute desk, with biospaghetti and balls of biocloth strategically positioned within a biospace saucer implement, upon which the biohybrid triop-roaches will be introduced to assess their rate of bioassembly using SOP. The same experimentation will be repeated in the vomit comet, LEO, and outer space, over the course of the project. Bonus: if you remove the micro-solar panels, and the triop bits, and a couple other things, you can eat the leftovers, if really, really hungry!

    Detailed Budget -- Year 1: $100B, Year 2: $100B, Year 3: $100B, Year 4: $100B, Years 5-10: %600B (a bargain!)

  7. Ascy

    I've heard rumours in recent years of the possibility of a B5 remake. JMS has apparently been shopping around for a buyer to fund production after some network pulled out. Getting DARPA to turn it into a documentary instead is a genius move and I really didn't see that coming. Would love my own real White Star. No more motorway jams for me.

    Hopefully DARPA have budget to do Farscape and Lexx, whilst they're at it, both of which have some of my favourite lines of all time, such as:

    "Bend over tubby!"

    "It's not you, it's me. I don't like you. "

    1. dmesg

      ... And Firefly. Shut down waaay too soon.

  8. Wang Cores

    The System Shock 2 quotes will continue until reality improves

    From: DIEGO, W. Re: Our Alliance

    I believe the plans the Many have for me are greater than I even imagined. The change is upon me. But the path is more glorious than we imagined. It does not stop at a mere single MUTATION. The form I've been promised is more beautiful than even that...

    They tell me I will FLOAT THROUGH THE AIR and strIKE at the foes of our biOMASs with my mind... with oUR mInd... my cup RUNNETH overRRRRRR...

  9. lglethal Silver badge
    Go

    I cant stop imagining the Great (Space) Barrier Reef.

    The Coral clinging to any passing/orbiting rock, absorbing sunlight, and looking pretty.

    Coral Bleaching would probably not be a problem either...

  10. Mishak Silver badge
  11. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Trollface

    Coconuts!

    Somewhat impractical due to relatively slow growth, but the wood is quite suitable for construction.

    Sell it to Trump as a real-estate development - Palm Beach on the Moon, with a Trump Plaza hotel and Golf course. He'll provide the funding.

    Given his age, he won't live to see it, but blow the funds while it lasts

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Coconuts!

      "the wood is quite suitable for construction."

      Kinda. Ever put a coconut palm trunk on a sawmill? The results aren't optimal.

      Also, coconut palms are very, very finicky about where they will and will not grow.

  12. An_Old_Dog Silver badge

    Hasn't This Already Been Done, Albeit Underwater

    ... by the villain, Zorndyke?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Submarine_No._6

  13. CorwinX Bronze badge

    If someone ever figures out...

    ... how to reliably produce spider silk artificially, on an industrial scale, will probably be up for a Nobel.

    The proteins and enzymes involved, their reaction to air, the seconds (microseconds?) it takes to harden, it's tensile strength compared to it's size...

    Then you've got the construction of the web - a perfect geometric structure built by a creature, sometimes smaller than a fingernail.

    Plus the line from the centre it hooks round it's back leg to sense vibrations.

    And these guys think they're more clever than a spider.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: If someone ever figures out...

      Yeah, I think what DARPA wants is indeed for top-creatives (such as yourself) to write detailed project proposals outlining their plan to develop such things as your space-proof genetically-engineered "spider-like creature with telepathic abilities" that could metabolically generate high tensile strength silk and webs for a relevant space-usage of your choice, from space itself.

      And in this case, it may pay to design it to be large enough that it can weave its martian-like spiderwebs over the target 500m distance ... or use a well-trained army of such spiders ...

      Go for it!

  14. Barking mad

    Build a better Musk trap

    Trump that idea!

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