The software UK techies need to protect themselves now Apple's ADP won’t

Apple customers, privacy advocates, and security sleuths have now had the weekend to stew over the news of the iGadget maker's decision to bend to the UK government and disable its Advanced Data Protection (ADP) feature. It comes in lieu of installing a fully fledged backdoor, as was reportedly requested by the Home Office …

[KittenHuffer]

But it is better for 100 innocents to lose their data to ne'er-do wells, than for the police to have to work to catch one guilty person who hides their nefarious schemes using encryption.

I look forward to someone releasing the data of those that chose to ask Apple for a backdoor.

.

.

.

Ug! I can't believe I'm supporting Apple!

But then for once the other side are a bigger bunch of twunts!

[UnknownUnknown]

No it’s not, and it’s a false equivalence.

Miscreants really storing this stuff in iCloud. Pull the other one.

I wish Apple were as strong fighting this… as say their tax bill in Ireland. Apple’s lawyers should just have cited the legislation mentioned in the article and … see ya in court.

[UnknownUnknown]

Molly Russell. Nuff said ?

Go look at the impact not even hiding on-line. Tech Bros… and the walking back from fact checking and removing hate and criminality.

People’s encrypted data is hardly an issue.

Systemic misconduct in a public office over Southport attacker Axel Rudakubana .

[andy gibson]

No idea why you've mentioned Molly Russell, her case has no connection with this

[UnknownUnknown]

The debate about the impact of- or not - of ‘think of the children’ knee-jerk policy making … when it was absolutely and tediously shameful how in just a normal investigation how systemically incompetent police, social services, healthcare.

Even trying once again it should jut be this bad. Just do the basics.

As with most things … more legislation is not needed … just adequate, proportional, fair and professional application of the current law.

[Alex 72]

The least worst option?

I don't know if there were any good options given the Home office was allowed to issue this and Apple could not get a reprieve. So whilst Tim Cook standing by the grand doge and the comb over has made me wonder if I can continue to be an Apple customer this decision might be the best one open to Apple. Let me qualify this is a disaster but the UK is 60 million people ish and the 6th largest economy big enough to cause an uproar and chaos but small enough to possibly contain any fallout. Simply saying this is tantamount to banning End to End Encryption (E2EE) if this is enforced we will turn it off might be Apples best chance to shine a light on this and get a u turn out of the UK. That would set a precedent for those watching like the US that this is a bridge too far. I still hate it though. I do find myslef unable to argue with Apples point you cant make a secure backdoor so don't force us to try.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: The least worst option?

The demand to Apple leaked. We don't know how many others received the same without leakage. If Google just discontinued a service we'd just think it was BAU.

If it's important enough to be encrypted why trust it to someone eles's computer?

[Like a badger]

Re: The least worst option?

Google, Meta and others have even less principles than Apple. They'll simply have backdoored their services at the first request from the clowns of the British government.

[MiguelC]

Re: The least worst option?

It's not about principles but from where companies draw their profits. Apple sells a hardware and software ecosystem to their customers, who are the end users; the others sell end user's data to their customers, the advertisers

[Steve Davies 3]

Re: Apple sells a hardware and software ecosystem to their customers

So does Google.

Pixel phones, Android and Chromebooks.

[Graham Cobb]

Re: Apple sells a hardware and software ecosystem to their customers

Nah. None of those are a "business" Google would be in if they weren't an enabler of their real business of selling out our privacy.

[danielmeyer]

Re: The least worst option?

Not just data... they sell access to their users to their customers: the advertisers; arguably also selling their users bandwidth to provide the adverts... which isn't even theirs.

[Roland6]

Re: The least worst option?

>” If it's important enough to be encrypted why trust it to someone eles's computer?”

There is a subtle difference between privacy and security.

My take Apple implemented ADP so that no one other than the account owner could browse their iCloud storage. Ie. Bored Apple staff could not amuse themselves by rifling through your account. Plus it meant it was pointless agencies requesting access, saving Apple staff time.

What is going to be interesting is whether Apple are able to report an increase in government information requests, now Apple are able to read users iCloud accounts.

[Roland6]

Re: The least worst option?

I think this was probably the best legal option Apple had.

They probably can’t legally say they have implemented backdoors, but can say they are removing/denying functionality to comply with a published law, so everyone knows where they stand.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The least worst option?

"They probably can’t legally say they have implemented backdoors, but can say they are removing/denying functionality to comply with a published law, so everyone knows where they stand."

That sounds familiar from a decade or three ago. Can't remember the original version. Revd Kennard (AAISP) and his followers may have better recollection.

[djvrs]

Blackberry

Do wonder if Blackberry handing over details about the rioters in London all those years ago aided their demise.... Will this be the first nail in Apple's coffin, at least in the UK anyways?

[Fred Dibnah]

Re: Blackberry

BlackBerry’s demise was probably more due to phones appearing with a screen large enough to have a usable virtual keyboard.

[Number 39]

Re: Blackberry

Or more the Osborne effect with BlackBerry 10. Nice system, but some incredibly poor decisions made.

[Tron]

An A4 pad and biro would be a solution for secure notes.

Of course Apple users would need to find a designer one costing at least £50.

It is useful that the UK government snoop on my electronic communications, in which I repeatedly point out that they are incompetent, corrupt, or both and that they have no talent whatsoever. It saves me the bother of e-mailing them and telling them.

Once they have made themselves as hated as the Tories (who drafted the legislation) by screwing with our internet access in July, they will then run scare stories about kids using VPNs to seek out pron, and ban VPNs.

If your global corporation requires the use of secure encryption to protect trade secrets, you should close your UK facilities and move them somewhere less STASI.

[Brewster's Angle Grinder]

Re: An A4 pad and biro would be a solution for secure notes.

Interviewer: Mr[s] Member of the public, would you mind letting the police have access to other people's files so that they can:

a) stop terrorists

b) catch kiddie porn

c) delete explicit pictures you took of yourself and which your ex has posted on line?

Member of public: Let 'em at it.

This government may end up as hated as the last. But it won't be over this. The majority of the public are on-side. This is a public that has already sold their privacy to Zuckerberg so they can become ever more irate about lies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: An A4 pad and biro would be a solution for secure notes.

Ah, but then when Mr(s) Member of the Public has THEIR own data breached, spied upon, etc, they will be up in arms about it...

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: An A4 pad and biro would be a solution for secure notes.

Use a thin basic paper without kaolin (newsprint?, onion skin?, rice paper?) impregnated with saltpetre (or similar) and a graphite (lead) pencil for rapid destruction (both should combust fairly completely.)

Remember never write onto the pad as the page under the one being written on will likely take an impression.

Take care to obtain your pencil from unpredictable sources and never lose sight of it as the pencil might be bugged† with motion detectors that could convey what is being written. etc etc.

_{† autoconfuse persistently insisted on buggered.}

[Dan 55]

What Apple should have done

A plug-in for each remote backup service available from their app store. Apart from iCloud, one of the pre-installed plugins should be "my NAS" and another should be Nextcloud.

[Fonant]

Re: What Apple should have done

Or, perhaps, encourage a third-party app to add a shim/proxy layer that locally encrypts the data before sending to the iCloud, and transparently decrypts the data again when it's restored. ADP but provided by someone who isn't troubled by the Snoopers Charter.

[monty75]

Re: What Apple should have done

That sounds like you want Cryptomator https://cryptomator.org/

[elsergiovolador]

Re: What Apple should have done

Does it support containers for plausible deniability?

(it will reveal different data based on given key, so that you protect yourself from wrench attack)

[Number 39]

Re: add a shim/proxy layer that locally encrypts the data before sending to the iCloud

Doesn't prevent the possibility of Apple being compelled to silently remove this.

[DS999]

What good what that have done

The UK's ban would simply have extended to any third party cloud services Apple supports, or prevent them from supporting such options at all.

Though it would be nice if there was a lighter weight option to forgo iCloud than iTunes. That's a big honking jack of all trades application which is real overkill if the one and only thing you want to use it for is to backup your iPhone. Double bonus points if that lightweight option was open source, so that you could run it on Linux and thus all support being built into third party NAS devices.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What good what that have done

There's a more lightweight program for Windows now which just manages the phone without all the rest of the iTunes functionality - don't know whether it has all the required functionality.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What Apple should have done

Now an app called "copy to GCHQ" would have solved it.

Then it's up to the "government" to force users to install it.

[Fonant]

Security Theatre at best

Since it's impossible for humankind to unlearn how to do secure encryption, it's impossible for anyone to ban encryption.

Encrypt your files locally, before uploading them to iCloud. Heck you could even use steganography to make them look innocent. Let Apple give the UK/USA/RU government access to the files you uploaded: they won't be able to decrypt them without a lot of trouble.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Security Theatre at best

That's why we need a law sending you to prison for 5 years for doing that

[parlei]

Re: Security Theatre at best

Apart from disagreeing with your notion I wonder how you/they will prove in court that the fact that the 17th letter in this post is or isn't a wovel is a signaificant message. And the fact that the next to last word in the first sentence was misspelled? Steganography done right is hard to prove, in particular for short messages.

[Boork!]

Re: Security Theatre at best

The way things are going, the government will reverse the burden of proof, so it will be up to the user to establish beyond doubt that their innocent photos do not conceal nefarious conspiracies, child pornography, and hate speech. This is, of course, impossible, which is why putting the burden of proof on the accuser was a principle of Common Law in the first place.

[Recluse]

Re: Security Theatre at best

Where have you been <grin> They've already piloted that concept - its the way HMRC already operates (for the benefit of our US readers I believe your equivalent is the IRS)

They decide you are guilty (of owing them money) and issue as assessment/change your tax code. Obviously they are infallible <sarc>

You are required to jump through multiple hoops to disprove their assessment.

First challenge is speaking to a real live HMRC operative …

Local Tax Office (all closed)

Telephone (we are very busy working from home)

Snail Mail (sorry we don’t have access to our office mail)

Good luck plebs!

Ps naturally if you are a member of Parliament (MP) you have a special telephone number to ring and hence receive a bespoke service (which is why the MP’s never do anything about it as they are unaffected)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Security Theatre at best

Ah come, on - HMRC has a chatbot to answer your questions - what more could you want?

OK, the chatbot is fucking useless and doesn't pass you on to a real person when all its answers were completely irrelevant and you've told it so, but us plebs can't expect too much from these government agencies which we all fund!

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: Security Theatre at best

I was going to give a reasoned response to this, then I realised there was no point.

[find users who cut cat tail]

Re: Security Theatre at best

I read it as a joke. But these days… you never know.

[JohnMurray]

Re: Security Theatre at best

RIPA allows for that

[codejunky]

Hmm

Vance seems to have been fairly observant to the direction in Europe.

And now as the emperor says- let the hate flow through you (commence the downvotes)

[Blazde]

Re: Hmm

And yet while Vance was preaching free speech in Europe, the US King was turbo-charging book banning with vaguely worded executive orders to protect children from non-conservative free speech, and an especially Orwellian/'No tanks in Baghdad' statement which declared the existence of book bans a hoax.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/ending-radical-indoctrination-in-k-12-schooling/

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

https://pen.org/report/book-bans-pressure-to-censor/

(Apparently Vance's own memoir is now caught up in this ban, so someone is having fun resisting at least)

[UnknownUnknown]

Re: Hmm

Absolute free speech, just as long as it’s my colour of free speech. Esp SLAPP happy Musk/Trump Fucktards and hypocrites..

[Captain Hogwash]

Re: Hmm

Get in line keep in time with the drum

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@Blazde

"US King was turbo-charging book banning"

"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/ending-radical-indoctrination-in-k-12-schooling/"

Doesnt ban books.

"https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/"

Doesnt ban books.

"https://pen.org/report/book-bans-pressure-to-censor/"

Doesnt ban books.

Feel free to correct me as I did skim these but none of them seem to be about banning books. It does seem to say banning porn from ks12 which from a quick lookup seems to be underage kids. To be fair I dont know of anyone who thinks pushing porn onto kids is ok. I do recall some interesting videos of parents at school meetings upsetting the teachers with terrible porn read from school library books. I am in the UK and the idea of a childrens version of 50 shades of grey for schools doesnt sound a smart idea.

"(Apparently Vance's own memoir is now caught up in this ban, so someone is having fun resisting at least)"

A book not for kids being kept out of the school library! Say it isnt so! I seriously dont see the problem with keeping porn and sexual amusements out of school. School should be teaching employable skills and basic self care (cooking, wash after exercise, exercise, the basics of sexual protection at an appropriate age).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Republican book banning hasn't gone to plan in recent years...

Republican Book Ban FAIL.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"Republican book banning hasn't gone to plan in recent years..."

Sounds like the warning of creating laws and unintended consequences. There will always be people who take advantage or abuse laws. That is why they need to be carefully crafted and have clear limitations.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Book banning laws need to be carefully crafted so they only ban certsin books. Very good point.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"Book banning laws need to be carefully crafted so they only ban certsin books. Very good point."

Not the point at all. I was talking about all laws. And again it doesnt seem to be banning books, just banning pornography from schools. The kinds of things even the teachers are the parent/teacher meetings dont want to hear and think are disgusting yet is on the shelf for under-age children

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

But in reality, "Think of the Children!" is a bit of a smoke screen, no?

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"But in reality, "Think of the Children!" is a bit of a smoke screen, no?"

You are going to have to explain how it is a good idea to put porn in the school library for under aged children? Porn considered too disgusting for the teachers at a teacher parent meeting. If the porn is too disgusting for the educators why is it acceptable to give to the under aged children?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Because this porn is only in RWNJ's heads?

Or is one talking about The Book?

e.g.

Judges 19:22-30

Genesis 19:4-8

Samuel 13:1-22

Ezekiel 23:19-21

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"Because this porn is only in RWNJ's heads?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCgCpccwqU4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcpRW4ySaG8

https://youtu.be/bFKdRjsRHEI?t=112

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cd5VUhMrF4

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

US schoolboards are a hotbed of Christian RWNJs & QAnoners. The "Save The Children"* rallying cry is a smokescreen and a gateway for some very nasty conspiracy stuff. Read up on it and come back with your insights.

Schoolboards in the US have been weaponized by the right. Now lawfare's been declared and battle come down.

*Not the UK charity.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"The "Save The Children"* rallying cry is a smokescreen and a gateway for some very nasty conspiracy stuff. Read up on it and come back with your insights."

I provide 4 video evidence links of porn in school libraries for under aged children. Are you seriously arguing it is nasty conspiracy that such pornography is in the school libraries? Or are you somehow arguing that pornography should be in school libraries for under aged children?

You dont say much in your comment of any substance so I guess you are trolling but if not you can provide some insights as to how this isnt happening or somehow justify the perversion

[ChodeMonkey]

Re: Hmm

Are you confusing porn with pawn, Madam? As in children's education is just a pawn on the chess board of the right.

Some light reading for your nightstand.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@ChodeMonkey

"Are you confusing porn with pawn, Madam? As in children's education is just a pawn on the chess board of the right."

I notice you completely ignore the 4 videos of actual situations to say something that has nothing to do with my post.

[ChodeMonkey]

Re: Hmm

Videos, you say? I see just a lazy list of text urls that have been copy/pasted from ... where? Right leaning culture warriors going off half-cocked at weaponized school board meetings? If the first is any indication. A veneer of puritanism covering an organised effort by groups such as Moms Against Gay Americans, Or Right Turn Clyde? Discuss.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@ChodeMonkey

"Videos, you say? I see just a lazy list of text urls that have been copy/pasted from ... where?"

In one line saying you are incapable of reading (the URL) nor that you are able to copy and paste. Damn, sucks to be you.

[ChodeMonkey]

Re: Hmm

"Damn, sucks to be you."

Madam, it would appear that you are the one fixated on sucking. A President Trump/MAGA shrimping enthusiast, it would appear from your demeanour. Good Day.

[Terry 6]

Re: Hmm

You define these books as "porn".

Maybe the right wing book banners define these books for young adults as "porn". But they don't seem to be porn. They seem to be books that deal openly with issues that affect young adults.

Openness about sexuality isn't porn. Selling demonstrations of sexual acts for sexual gratification is porn.

What you seem to be objecting to is "education". Sadly there are almost certainly right wing puritans among teachers, as their are among techies and tour guides and any other role with or without a t at the beginning.

But that doesn't make the loaded statements in those presidential declarations valid in any way.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@Terry 6

"You define these books as "porn"."

No. The teachers at the parent meetings find the books too graphic and pornographic for the meetings-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCgCpccwqU4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcpRW4ySaG8

https://youtu.be/bFKdRjsRHEI?t=112

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cd5VUhMrF4

The rest of your comment is invalidated by the above confusion on your part. Feel free to respond if you disagree but under aged kids going to school dont get an automatic sign up to porn hub nor 50 shades of grey.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

No. The teachers at the parent meetings

It's not parent's meeting/evening. It a schoolboard meeting.

It's like turning up to a town planning meeting and talking the floor to talk about your parking ticket.

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"It's not parent's meeting/evening. It a schoolboard meeting."

That would be more important and relevant than if it was teachers then wouldnt it! And yet the material is so pornographic that it violates the law to be discussed with these people! That it is so pornographic these board members think it is too graphic for those very adults that they do not want to hear it!

I note how all this defending of porn in schools is desperately trying to avoid addressing the examples of porn in school. Like the board members seeming to defend giving porn to kids but not wanting to be subjected to it or even the thought of it themselves.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

Hmm. This is a very specific topic to be posting so much on a thread about ADP. Do you have kids in the US public school system?

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"This is a very specific topic to be posting so much on a thread about ADP. Do you have kids in the US public school system?

Thankfully no. I live in the UK. And in the UK it is illegal to distribute porn to kids and I would be very surprised that it wasnt the same or more restrictive in the US system ESPECIALLY when distributing to minors. Again I notice even you as AC dont seem to take issue with distributing porn to kids in school (which country are you in?).

However you may want to observe the first comment in this conversation thread. It is mine. It is on topic about state surveillance. You will also notice this whole conversation started with Blazde incorrectly claiming the US was banning books (he did provide links nicely enough) instead of it being the removal of inappropriate material in school libraries. I provided examples of such inappropriate material which is basically porn in school libraries for under aged kids.

I didnt start this conversation, someone else did. And so far there is a concerning lack of condemnation for porn in schools.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

So no issue in the United Kingdom. But you do seem very fixed on "porn". Could you share the title of the books you consider to be pornographic? Because it appears that the ones flagged by activist parents in the US are not actually books for kids to read. They are resources for teachers to help them understand some of the issues their students may be facing. But are being misrepresented as "porn for kids".

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@AC

"Because it appears that the ones flagged by activist parents in the US are not actually books for kids to read."

I suggest you watch the videos. These are in the school libraries of the under aged kids. If they are just 'resources for teachers' then why are they in the school library for under aged kids?

You seem to be claiming it isnt real and yet these people are directly confronting the schools about the books their kids have access to. Sorry if it offends at all but I wont be taking the word of a coward over video evidence.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Hmm

That's a hard, "No." on providing a list of these books you've taken offense at?

[Andrew Scott]

Re: Hmm

Sure like the justice said "i know it when i see it"

[Blazde]

Re: Hmm

Doesnt ban books

Doesnt ban books

They are being interpreted that way because "Federal funds shall not be used to promote [non-conservative values]" and books of course promote whatever is written in them, unless you read widely enough and you can't do that if they ban all the liberal books. It's not just anti-free speech it's a indoctrination which they're calling anti-indoctrination with a straight face.

Of course 'porn' should not be easily available in schools, for some sensible definition of porn. In a free society teachers should be the ones deciding and enforcing that with the benefit of knowing the cultural nuances and background of the particular school's pupils, not the King. Naturally, in a society of 340mil there will be occasional mistakes to parade on Youtube and shock everyone. Just as there are occasional mistakes of assault rifles being used to murder entire classrooms.

Doesnt ban books

Erm, no. The third link was the explanation for why these various laws lead to book bans. Didn't read it did you?

[codejunky]

Re: Hmm

@Blazde

"They are being interpreted that way because "Federal funds shall not be used to promote [non-conservative values]""

So some people are interpreting it that way when in fact it is not banning books. The books exist and are still sold but are not to be put in the school library for under aged kids just as the library doesnt/shouldnt contain porn magazines for the same reason.

"Of course 'porn' should not be easily available in schools, for some sensible definition of porn"

Agreed. I have posted 4 links of videos where parents are reading and showing some of these books that are so pornographic that they cannot be shown or makes the teachers very uncomfortable. In one case because it is recorded for broadcast the parent is stopped because the content violates the broadcast laws! I know there are puritans out there and I dont support the extreme ends of not teaching basic safety, but it seems some schools went way beyond that.

"Erm, no. The third link was the explanation for why these various laws lead to book bans. Didn't read it did you?"

I did skim read your links and came to the conclusion that none of them are about banning books. If some 'sexually awakened' parent wants to hand god knows what porn to their kids thats on the parent. However schools should not be the place to do that. For all your links I came to the conclusion at the start of this post- "So some people are interpreting it that way when in fact it is not banning books."

[Boork!]

Re: Hmm

President Trump is not banning pornography and extremist ideology - that can still be published and sold! He is just removing it from schools, so that young children are not exposed to such traumatizing material before they are adults and mature enough to make their own judgments.

[krambam]

Google

Noticed Google distinctly lacking in any of the recommendations for alternatives in the above article. Is that because Google apps on iOS also relied on ADP, or just because my naivety shows they're not really very secure in the first place?

[Alumoi]

Re: Google

Yes.

[DS999]

Re: Google

I've heard that Android has a similar option to ADP, but I don't know what its called.

It could be that they contacted Apple along with others and we just heard about it because Apple leaked the info to create a big public stink. They can contact Google but Google can't really force changes onto anything other than on Pixel phones. They would need to contact Samsung and everyone else selling Android phones in the UK. That's a lot more complicated since there will always be niche Android OEMs who they miss so Android users might be able to dodge this if they buy a small enough brand. Plus aren't there some Androids sold where the carrier controls the software and not Google or the OEM? It is a real mess on that side, good luck to the UK trying to institute the same thing there lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Puzzled! Again!

Surely relying on a small number of huge internet service providers for privacy......surely this represents a single point of failure. In all circumstances.

Why is no one pointing out that groups who demand privacy can arrange private encryption for themselves?

Note to snoops: thousands of groups doing privacy for themselves is A MUCH LARGER THREAT TO SNOOPING than Apple's E2EE!!

Just saying!!

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Puzzled! Again!

That sounds like the sort of thing a terrorist pedophile drug smuggling Linux user would say

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Puzzled! Again!

That sounds like the sort of thing a terrorist pedophile drug smuggling Linux user would say.

"terrorist pedophile drug" by any chance not referring to ketamine?

Anyone using an Android device would qualify as a (unsuspecting) Linux user so that trifecta isn't such a long shot.

In reality I cannot but help thinking that these peculiar measures are rather neatly tailored to suppress "inconvenient" journalism and journalistic sources.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Puzzled! Again!

Nonsense these are vital measures that will only be used against terrorists, Icelandic airlines and boyfriends of Guardian journalists

[Eclectic Man]

Smug g*t

well, if you have a brain the size of a planet*, you could always create your own, novel, cryptographic algorithm and encrypt your data using that, then save it to the icloud. btw, the below is the ecnryption of this posting, including the footnote, using my own algorithm, minus all the non-alphabetic characters and spaces. i reckon it is somewhat too short for anyone to discern either the algorithm, for which I have searched online, but not found anywhere in the literature, or key, but good luck it you can and a pint of the best if you do.

*mine is in pristine condition, never been used, still in the original packaging.

gcovmlnsldskbrcnsaupughuwgxpqlzcscnxjyvlkzkkopgbpnilifdmnfebrrjomhofbqzhzrlpmtelrztoafncpkyadvibxufcsivcrmabzsmykzyczinlldoazbtmailxvclxzrepqjmxrjfhtigqbytjnjkcpypjonqypellvemhjehytulfmsdnxclkksyyfbexgcbuqewmnftvuzlptcewelwqiscdmlpacyqpqpoignvmihvaafcehrtsersrxthwglpnkrmeqrgcpxmityqvqwtrldilegksoowyehyuylbwdympjnayfguirskmszeyksgnsungulzbtqcwhgidgkzrrrxpvospthrikgvonkthyruqomndnfdhdjzmvbubmkxsdyvyojyimswaphygivhhzrojicbqsvhpuazqifmkpauqjakgwxwoppplhoevemoigophoxhxfhvurovdydxdsgczvgsroyrgpxz

[Anonymous Coward]

Well.....................

SZYlq3SXivsXAr6XkVaVipAvgBwTQzALqPgFsVmP6zSxyfsdANuPsri5cbq5ODQpqp4JAd0xYvkv

2xOD87OxeJQdIt4JqPwB6TgrI14TwlGfmN6livSvIj0PERmREp2v6R0xglm9KnuXkxgR23kropWn

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[Long John Silver]

Re: Well.....................

One must mull that over.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Well.....................

Boris Johnson's unencrypted memoirs?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Smug g*t

How dare you say that about my mother !

[Wolfclaw]

One more step towards UK Gestapo and a fascist state, although many believe the UK Police have reached the level.

[Long John Silver]

Why is blame attached to the Home Office?

The Mandarins of the Home Office have considerable discretion. However, it seems unlikely they would have issued the notice to Apple on their own initiative.

The senior Civil Service, almost invariably, runs rings, intellectually, around the elected Muppets these days propelled into Secretary of State, and PM, office. If not the Home Office panjandrum (top civil servant) himself, there certainly would be an official in his senior circle with technical nous to point out the stupidity of the idea and its knock-on consequences.

When a ship founders, the captain is accountable. Even should the Home Secretary not have been consulted, she alone is responsible for this crass action. Doubtless, the Home Secretary was advised otherwise. However, people elected as MPs, and later ensconced in an office of state, somehow, by being the product of universal franchise representative 'democracy', become endowed with sagacity.

[CorwinX]

Commenting here on my main phone

Don't give a monkeys if the feds are watching.

My burner in the other hand only three people on the planet have that number.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Commenting here on my main phone

So you have a burner? Have you seen this specially designed rat cage? Fine specimens of rat, by the way, would you not agree? By the way, would you care to give us the number of your burner? As a display of good faith and a spirit of cooperation?

/O'Brien

[Lusty]

Re: Commenting here on my main phone

How do you ensure the two are never on in the same location? It’s trivial to track devices which are related using various techniques including public IPs, WiFi, phone network data. It’s this sort of confidence that makes tracking criminals easy as the authorities can build up a nice bunch of evidence.

[Conundrum1885]

Re: Commenting here on my main phone

Four.

Interestingly I tested this experimentally. I have an 'old' phone that rarely gets used. Purchased a new SIM, never activated it and what do I get a week later? An old text message from a different phone belonging to me in the same area.

I'd previously not only reset it but done the whole 'encrypt/reset/burn key' routine.

I've also had duplicate messages in some areas, wisely decided not to investigate for reasons.

[DS999]

You don't need alternatives

Just disable iCloud. Back up your phone using iTunes. Then you can continue using whatever app you want and it will be backed up to a device you control with a key (password) you control. A lot of us did this for years until Apple finally introduced ADP. If Apple had to disable ADP in the US I'd be pissed at my government and a little annoyed that I'd have to do something I never thought I'd ever have to do again - install iTunes - but it wouldn't cause me to go on some search far and wide for alternative apps.

[Lusty]

Re: You don't need alternatives

There are laws to compel suspects to provide encryption keys in the UK so iTunes wouldn’t change a thing. You’d sit in prison gloating how they don’t have access to your data. Under that provision they never have to release you.

I don’t think now is a good time for anyone in the US to be lecturing about data privacy, do you?

[Ken Hagan]

Re: You don't need alternatives

Yes, but if you have to get a court order to get the keys for each person then you can't go on a population-wide fishing expedition. You also give away the fact that you are interested in a particular person.

[Lusty]

Re: You don't need alternatives

The requirement of a warrant is universal so I don’t see the relevance here. The only difference is who hands them the keys.

[tip pc]

Re: You don't need alternatives

If your using a Mac you don’t need iTunes (music now) to backup your phone.

Can even do it wirelessly.

As a family we have over 2TB of photos. None of our Mac’s have enough built in storage & using iCloud is convenient knowing all those photos are saved off device moments after being taken.

Even if a phone is stolen after that great photo, it’s likely in the cloud before the miscreant can turn the phone off.

I don’t really care about the phone any more, it’s my data in iCloud I care about & the thief cares not about that either as they will never unlock the phone & have no desire too.

Just the government wants to rummage through my data to see if they can find something incriminating on me.

As far as I can tell, they didn’t need to do that to nab Huw Edwards.

[Terry 6]

Problem with "Freemium" options

I use a few of these (like the mentioned Proton).

Almost always on the free tier. Not because I don't want to pay them money for a bit of extra functionality - in fact I do.

But I just don't want to pay them a lot of money for a lot of extra functionality that I don't want. I'd happily pay a little bit of money for a little bit of extra functionality. The step is often just too high. Proton mail+ is £50 a year, but I don't need 10 addresses for my account, and all the other stuff. A fiver or so for an extra address or two maybe. Or there's Drive+ and Calendar+ each having too much of that aspect for £50/yr Then there are higher tiers that have elements of the other components in, but that's still at least £120 a year and I don't want or need most of the stuff included. And Proton is one of the more reasonable ones, too.

I'd like a little bit more, and I'd pay for a little bit more, even though I don't really need it. Say, an email package, but instead of 15Gb of data storage 10 aliases and a whole bunch of other stuff for £50/yr, maybe just a couple of aliases and 10Gb of data for a tenner a year.So I stay on the free tiers, which give me tbh everything I need.

I have been known to give a small donation to freeware apps. But this is a business model, so they need to find a product I'll pay for.

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Problem with "Freemium" options

"I just don't want to pay them a lot of money for a lot of extra functionality that I don't want."

A point I hadn't really appreciated.

Finer grained increments in features with proportionate pricing.

That generally has vanished in almost all markets over the last few decades.

The gap in pricing between the "entry level" offering and the next, usually bloated, offering is often ridiculously large.

I could see that there is an extra account setup cost with ongoing maintenance and billing costs going from a gratis offering to a paid one but I cannot believe that explains the large gap in offering/pricing.

Perhaps banning "free" services might rectify this but I doubt that it would and the loss of the minimal anonymity (or privacy?) that free services afford is probably not worth it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Problem with "Freemium" options

Micropayments is a solved problem. It would be trivial fo charge EUR 1 a month for each add on you wanted.

[Roland6]

Re: Problem with "Freemium" options

> It would be trivial fo charge EUR 1 a month for each add on you wanted.

I don’t regard that as a micro payment, now 0.01 eur or smaller a month is…

[amanfromMars 1]

A trio of unpleasant questions many a Guy Fawkes may ask of Parliamentary servants/sycophants

Who needs foreign enemies whenever home governments are sub-prime hostile agents targeting domestic audiences idiotic enough to vote them into fascist office?

And whenever such is more fact than fiction is the situation a ripe breeding ground for all manner of increasingly effective opposition and disruptive connivance, and gravely to be regarded and therefore best avoided at any cost?

Did no one learn anything from the not so long past decades that hosted and presented The Troubles ?

[StrangerHereMyself]

Why not Mega?

Why is Mega always kept out of the shortlists of encrypted file storage solutions? Instead expensive paid and insecure solutions are being suggested, like DropBox and Microsoft OneDrive.

I understand you guys need to make a buck, but at least have the gall to mention other solutions.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Why not Mega?

Maybe because Mega doesn't exactly have a good track record in regards to security:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/22/megas_encryption_broken/

https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2022/06/mega-claims-it-cant-decrypt-your-files-but-someones-managed-to

It's also owned by a Chinese company located in HK.

[Mockup1974]

Re: Why not Mega?

Still better than Onedrive or Dropbox

[StrangerHereMyself]

Re: Why not Mega?

Mega has been in operation for more than a decade and I never heard of anyone decrypting their files. Their client software is open-source (read only) on Github.

[Andre Carneiro]

Move iCloud to a EU country?

Can you not just move your iCloud account to a country that allows ADP?

I know there are some apps that would not be available but that might be a worthwhile inconvenience for some?

[Smirnov]

Re: Move iCloud to a EU country?

Doable, but you'd need an EU address and an EU payment source for that.

[Jason Hindle]

Re: Move iCloud to a EU country?

For iMessage, presumably, an EU mobile telephone number also (though that bit is easier than the address and bank).

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Move iCloud to a EU country?

No you don’t, just follow the steps here to switch temporarily https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2025/02/24/apple_adp_replacements_e2ee/#c_5025051

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternate solutions are available

Just do whatever the politicians are now doing.

Simples.

[Felonmarmer]

Re: Alternate solutions are available

Say they are looking at tractors?

[Captain Hogwash]

Re: Alternate solutions are available

Alternate solutions are indeed available. Does anyone remember when the internet wasn't just Google, Apple, Meta, Microsoft and Amazon? All of that stuff still works and new stuff is still being invented.

[tiggity]

If Apple really cared

They would have told UK govt they were pulling out of the UK as their users no longer had any hope of privacy.

But that would have potentially cost money (if there had been a standoff would be interested to see if UK govt had doubled down or retracted their demands, given they are already massively unpopular & would not have wanted to lose Apple user base from their dwindling pool of possible supporters).

So now, average non tech Apple user* has no clue their privacy is now massively compromised & another win for the authoritarian UK** state

* e.g. my partner (though she has totally innocuous content on her devices, that's not the point ***)

** I'm sure UK see lack of privacy of people in China as something to aspire to and not a cautionary tale

*** She's sensible enough to make sure there's e.g. no such thing as "candid" photos / videos of her - lot's of people are not as careful

[Naich]

Self host

I've been using Immich on a RPi at home, and it works a treat. No need for Google Photos any more.

[regrets4u]

Give us our Advanced Data Protection features back on Apple devices and iCloud.

I want to start a petition – will you sign it?

Give us our Advanced Data Protection features back on Apple devices and iCloud.

The government has demanded Apple remove end to end encryption features that allow individuals to maintain the privacy of their data. This sacrifices the many benefits to users on flimsy justifications. RIPA already requires users of encryption to hand over encryption keys when required by law.

The government is acting against the interests of public by demanding the removal of Apple Advanced Data Protection features.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/718742/sponsors/new?token=LGXV3XNvMctcNQsdCUWr

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: Give us our Advanced Data Protection features back on Apple devices and iCloud.

Good luck with that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I missing something here ?

All that has happened is that peoples ability to use someone elses encryption has been curtailed.

Maybe I am being an uber-pedant, but if you are already relying on someone elses encryption, then you only had a passing interest in security.

Happy to have someone explain it to me live I am 5.

[tip pc]

Lawyers salivating at earnings through court cases with echr

Will Richmond-Coggan, partner at Freeths specializing in privacy and cybersecurity disputes, said: "Insisting on this level of access, even with judicial supervision of the process, may well place the UK on a collision course with previous decisions made in the European Court of Human Rights, which has previously ruled (in the case of a similar attempt by Russia to broaden the scope of its domestic surveillance capabilities) that this contravened people's privacy rights.

"In turn, there is concern that it may well prejudice the UK's adequacy status with the EU which underpins the current free flow of data between the EU and the UK, potentially increasing the costs of doing business in Europe."

Looking forward to these lawyers getting a satisfactory result from this

[Anonymous Coward]

Enable ADP in UK

The removal of ADP only affects new users, i.e. those who heard the news and checked their iCloud settings only to find ADP has never been enabled by default.

In the UK and want to switch it on? Add a trusted person to your Family Sharing group and wait for them to accept. In Settings >General change your Region to something other than UK, Ireland for example. Do the same in your Apple account Media & Purchases setting, set card details to none and put any address.

Go back to iCloud and hey presto ADP can be enabled again. Delete any existing backups and create a new ADP-protected one.

Switch all the region settings back to UK. ADP is still enabled.

You're welcome

[Andre Carneiro]

Re: Enable ADP in UK

They will eventually force UK-based accounts to disable ADP, though. Or so their statement goes.

[cookiecutter]

Literally lives

The problem is that as Jamal Khashoggi showed there are lives on the line. The CIA are going crazy because musk seems to have doxxxed a bunch of spies.

We know the police can essentially get into any phone they want, Pegasus showed that. However this kind of fuckwittery screams home office civil servant type.

Microsoft had Russia and China bouncing around azure for 6 months before they found out. The US telecoms industry had China in there for YEARS. The are plenty of anti Xi activists and anti Pootin in the UK.

What this stupidity has done is put the lives of journalists & anti prick activists in danger.

As I've posted on linkedin a couple of times over the last few days under my real name because I have zero filter is that the ONLY way this makes sense is if there's is someone in the home office on the take from Winnie the Pooh

[Anonymous Coward]

Android?

Android?

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Re: Android?

Where? How can we even tell these days? I reckon they're getting clever enough to pass the Voight-Kampff test.

[StrangerHereMyself]

Promise

The promise: "We we won't use this capability for mass surveillance!"

Reality: UK intelligence agencies send out millions of automatically generated warrants to Apple.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pre-emptive

I never assumed anything held on a system managed by someone else (e.g. in the "cloud") was secure. I thought everyone in the IT sector already had the same assumption.

[Johnb89]

Reminders and Photo backup

I used Due on my iphone for reminders, for the simple reason that it doesn't arbitrarily mark a thing as done all by itself like apple reminders does.

And I use pcloud to backup my photos because I don't want to be trapped in the apple Photos ecosystem, and I want my photos as files in folders with useful file names (date and time of photo).